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Jaff
11-05-2003, 01:00 AM
I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way with this thread, I just want honest opinions, without the arguments over how you feel about Star Wars Expanded universe figures or material. Let your opinions rip, but try to hold back from childish finger pointing and bruised feelings. Just state your case, because I sure would like to know how many folks think what about this topic.

I've noticed allot of banting about EU FACTS on the site several times especially where movies are concerned, and many use EU material to justify their opinions and or views to twist things in films to what they want rather than what's there.

Also figures are being spent on EU figures. Rather than getting a new film figure we get an EU concept figure like Clone Emperor, Obi-Wan Cold Weather, Darth Maul sith training deluxe, etc...

I have played almost every SW video game up to 2001, and I have read every SW book from 1979: Splinter to the minds eye to 1997: The new Jedi Order so I'm not entirely unaware of whats out there. I've also read all the classic comics over 50 issues.

With that said I think 98% of EU is mainly based on juvenile concepts with less than talented writers. When I read EU stuff I can litterally see writers going on about concepts that don't fit the Star Wars universe like Truce at Bakara, The bounty Hunter Tales (Boba Fett climbs out of the Sarlacc naked and is the best man at Dengar's wedding!!!). Even the Thrawn trilogy is kind of lame to me. If Mara was as bad as she was she would have sensed Luke coming and killed him and Bib right at the beginning of ROTJ before he spoke to Jabba. I have also read the comics too, like Aurra Sing and the Tuskins, and so on. It is just mediocrity at it's best.

There are some superstar EU stuff though. Firstly the Han Solo Adventures that depicts his youth, meeting Jabba, until SW. Splinter of the Minds Eye is still a great read. I actually accept that book as Cannon because Lucas himself has endorsed and penned the introduction for the book. The Darth Maul 4 part comic was cool, and Shadows of the Empire felt like Star Wars.

When I look at EU stuff I see something SW that I would like to look at, even though it's more comical than Sci-Fi. I view it as material that is not really Star Wars stuff, and should be treated as something seperate from Star Wars. If you like it great, but keep it seperate from the films because some person writting it at their house may or may not know what they are talking about when they write it like author Kathy Tyers. I see the EU stuff as the Diet Coke of Coke. It's not Coke, it's seperate. You can drink both, but you don't mix them together!!!!

I'm sure someone will come to defend EU stuff with the banter that someone from Lucasfilm approves every single EU material out there, thus saying that EU stuff is fact for SW films. I'm going to counter that by saying bull#@%^! Who approves it. If it is not George Lucas himself (like he's going to find the time to read an ametuer's book) it's not approved right! After all he is the creator of the series, and we must all respect HIS vision, not someone else's. We all bash Lucas for the prequels, but he certainly has higher standards than some of the EU stuff.


Moderators pleave move this thread if you need to. I could not find a EU section on the forums, so your discretion will is desired if needed.

2-1B
11-05-2003, 01:22 AM
I hate most of what I'm familiar with of the EU and think much of it sounds like garbage. I lost interest in it long ago and other than reading The Approaching Storm I've not read a whole book in a long time. I remember getting pumped for the Thrawn trilogy. I thought it started off promising but it went downhill.

As much as I hate EU, I have no problem with people forming their SW opinions based on EU. This is entertainment so if it works for you, bless your heart. :)

I certainly don't mind people collecting EU figures. I just won't buy them. ;)

darthzirock
11-05-2003, 01:56 AM
Jaff, you i******* s***! What in Cthulhu's name are you going on about? Of course you can mix Coke and Diet Coke! If I start out with a glass of Coke and want to refresh it, but we're out of regular Coke now, do I dump out what's in my glass to make way for a totally new beverage? NO!!!! I just crack that new bottle of Diet Coke and add it to the regular Coke! Tastes just fine ... in fact, you get less burping by mixing Coke & Diet Coke than if you just drink Diet Coke by itself. :D










What? :confused:












Oh, yeah! The Expanded Universe question! Sorry, I just take my carbonated beverages very seriously! :p

Um, I think that a lot of the EU stuff is just "OK." It's better than watching grass get painted, I suppose. However, a lot of it is just rather mind-numbing rehashes of ideas that were pretty much best left to ten seconds of screen time in the OT. Then again, there have been a few really nifty examples of creators "playing" in Uncle George's universe and ending up showing us something that makes us appreciate the SW saga anew. Remember, without the EU, we'd never have great characters like Aayla Secura and Darth Bane.

Seriously, I have no trouble with Hasbro issuing a few EU figures every so often. I see nothing wrong with the card games creating back-stories for blink-and-you-missed-them-in-the-films characters. The books are there because the demand is there, and people want to see more adventures set in the SW universe, even if the core group of heroes and villains are shuffled off-stage to allow a new character to shine.

However, arguments about what is canon and what isn't are kinda silly. After all, various EU adventures had R2 and 3PO together 100 years prior to the events of SW:E4. Obviously, George felt no obligation to adhere to that idea and created his own back-story for the droids in SW:E1. The EU origin of Boba Fett was scrapped by George, too. So, if the EU stuff isn't canon, what is it?

MERCHANDISING!!!!

Let's step back into reality for a nanosecond, shall we? The huge LFL merchandising machine needs to churn out all this EU stuff in order to support the whims of Massa George. That is it's sole raison d'etre, folks--making big heap wappum for Chief Walks in Sky! Getting your panties in a twist over a Dark Horse comic book that had Luke's third grade teacher being named Miss Tohdilujoujkjyf, when a Jedi Academy book from three months earlier clearly stated it was Mr. Slartibartfast, is just pointless. Relax. Take a breath. Pop a valium or six. Because, friends, fellow fans and collectors, it really doesn't matter.

As much as I enjoy SW, I can't obsess over it to the point that I would lose sleep at the idea that other fans weren't accepting every scrap of SW lore as being blasted into a mountainside in letters twelve meters tall. It's entertainment! If you start being so picky as to the point that it causes you to blow blood vessels if somebody disagrees on your point of view as to whether or not a figure of Padme's second Nanny ever gets made, you need to step back and consider chucking it all for a new, less stressful hobby. Say, perhaps, preparing Japanese fugu.

And Jaff? I'd put Shadows of the Empire on that list of EU stuff that has George's personal stamp of approval on it.

Now, where's my official, Hasbro-produced Miss Tohdilujoujkjyf figure? :crazed:

plo koon 200
11-05-2003, 07:58 AM
I got your PM Jaff and I am here. Well personally I really take much of the EU stuff with a grain of salt. I agree that most of the EU stuff is very medicore and they don't have the best writers or biggest fans creating this EU.

I will also agree with you on saying that Splinter of the Mind's Eye is Cannon, especially considering it almost became the second Star Wars film. It was practially the first EU book and yet it is still one of the best after 25 years. It just goes to show you how much writing Star Wars stories has improved with the hundreds of books released afterwards.

For SOTE I will not say it is cannon but of all the books I have read I do agree that it feels the most Star Wars like. I think NJO is nothing like Star Wars with the Yuzhan Vong and the idiotic long zillion book chaos that could have been handled with less complexity. The NJO series just takes up space. They could have got the point across in less books.

When it comes to toys I am still a sucker for everything out there and as long as I get diversed toys with great sculpts I don't care what they are like.

However I do know one person who takes everything EU seriously. As a matter of fact he considers the EU to be more important and reliable than the movies. He is like well if the movie contradicts the EU, then the EU is correct. He was ****** when they changed Boba's origin and claimed because the EU came first it was more important. But worse is that he considers the EU better than even the OT and he claims they have more value. Personally I think he is a little bit crazy.

scruffziller
11-05-2003, 10:11 AM
Like alot of us say. IT'S ALL STAR WARS BABY!!!!!!!

kool-aid killer
11-05-2003, 10:23 AM
I like EU but wish it would mesh a bit better with the movies. Im not the type to lose any sleep over things that dont match up. I wouldnt mind seeing more EU figures as long as we get our usual figures from the movies.

Jaff
11-05-2003, 10:38 AM
Well I do realize that my views in the first post are unusually harsh because seriously that is my opinion on the topic. I am also sure that allot of folks will be scarred to jump on this topic because people will be ripping appart viewpoints. I do appreciate the therapy that has been given to me about relaxing so far, but here's a question I will pose, and anyone who visits this thread should answer. When you are engaged in disscusion about a film question (pick any topic), and someone starts talking about EU stuff trying to explain what you see in the film what is your impression of it?

Pick one of the following.

A. The giver of the information needs a life, their input is useless!
B. Although they may have some valid points their EU opinion is really in the way of the topic being discussed. A movie is being discussed not comics or novels.
C. I don't know what to think because I don't know how much weight to place on EU material.
D. They could be right after all EU is generally accepted material.
E. I bow to the EU gods and accept that the fundamental principles of EU material is absolute.

My anser to this is B. I read or listen what they have to say and then I will most likely ignore it because I'm talking about movies, not another tangent!

With that said I'm going to pose the question: What do I consider, and do you consider as EU material. To understand our answers above we need to understand what we define as EU. [B]What do you think is EU material.

Pick the category closest to your opinion and if I missed something or you have an optional opinion make a F category for your opinion. Or add on to what you select.

A. Everything not represented in the film is EU Material, consisting of Comics, CG Cards, Cartoons (clone wars, Droids), Spinoff Books, movie novels, Encyclopedias, video games, Roleplaying manuals, Technical movie and Character books, and spinoff-movies (Ewoks and Star Wars Holiday special)
B. EU Comics, Cartoons, Spinoff Books, Video Games, Roleplaying manuals, Spinoff movies.
C. The only material that is not EU that should be linked with the actual movies should be Technical movie and Character Books, movie novelizations, Cartoons, video Games and Spinoff movies.
D. The only thing that should be ignored as EU are Movie novelizations, and Film based books like Technical and Character Books. Anything that is not in these two categories should be looked at with a grain of salt and should be scrutinized when being used as an explination in topics.
E. Nothing is EU. Everything is one topic whether it is a movie, Book, Cartoon, Show, comic or videogame. It all comes from the same source so in my mind EU doesn't exist.

I pick C. I choose this because the big Lucas Books Visual Dictionaries are straight from the set of films. The movie novelizations were straight from the scripts of films, and the Cartoons and Spinoff movies were written or at least approved by Lucas himself. George concieved the idea of the Holiday special but gave it to a really untalented group of people to make it. Lucas was so angry that he wanted to destroy every copy of the show in existance. However he created it and therefore I see it as cannon (bad cannon at that). As for Video games Lucas Arts releases them. George has to check them out, and since he is into games like Spielberg he will approve anything that fancies him.

After answering that question let me ask you what do you accept as worthy Cannon material. Here's my list

Splinter of the minds Eye
Shadows of the Empire
Visual Dictionaries
Any set related or interviewed material. For example Harrison Ford stated in 1978 that Chewie was sever hundred years old. It was never in the film, but he knew about that, and sure enough Lucas confirmed that pretty quick. Actors ave to research characters, and therefore will know more than most about characters, or even the character they play.
Video Games (Lucas makes them by overseeing them)
Documentaries of the films
The Cartoons and Movies

I really want to include CG cards (but some of the characters they put in the cards are not part of the films) Although I never played the game I think these cards have some really neat info on "second" characters in the film.

I also want to include the Han Solo Epic of his youth, but in the end it is a novelization and if I'm going to say novels are not acceptable cannon, than this book is part of that category.

By my list you can tell that I'm strictly a movie lover of SW. I don't need EU to explore SW because the film has so much to explore. I saw SW in a drive in in 1978. It is now 25 years later and I still find new stuff in the movies. I feel that EU just clouds the exploration of the movie. I tried EU material avidly in the 90's then abandoned it. Since I'm an old dog with SW my opinion probably will never change, and although I love SW and enjoy that folks have EU I question their credibility whenever they tote EU material. It's just a treat next to Dinner.

Please remember you need to define yourself on this thread: Say what you think of EU right up front, What you think is EU, and what EU material if any you respect, then engage others. Let's put everything in the open and then discuss the topic amongst eachother. Everyone visiting this thread has pretty much done so to date, I just don't want some know-it-all coming in on this thread bashing someone without putting their cards on the table.

One final note: If you are reading this thread you do need to take part in it. Explore this issue, and do not be afraid of what others think. Lets finally talk about this issue as a group. If you don't take part in this thread after reading it your avoiding the topic and not confronting it. That is nothing short of cowardice!

stillakid
11-05-2003, 10:50 AM
I guess first I have to define what I consider to be viable "canon" material because this is the information that I primarily use to determine inconsistencies within the saga.

Obviously the films themselves are source #1.

After that, despite claims to the contrary, I can't ignore the novelizations of the films and consider them EU. While I haven't yet read the Prequel novelizations and therefore can't fairly comment on them, to the best of my memory, the OT novelizations are consistent both with the films and between themselves. They primarily cover the action that is seen onscreen and give just enough added "extra" to add background and meaning to the onscreen action without contradicting anything at all. (ie, Owen and Ben being brothers). With Lucas's legendary control issues with the main storyline, I find it utterly inconceivable that he didn't contribute ideas and backstory notes to Alan Dean Foster, Donald Glut, and James Kahn and then subsequently signed off on how they fleshed the film versions out. Therefore, all the information in the OT novelizations has to be considered canon by default.

I read Splinter of the Mind's Eye long long ago, so my memory of it is rather sketchy at best, but I remember some business about a Force crystal or something. Rather a silly LOTR type concept in and of itself. I think that this could be considered the first true EU material for fans hungry for more material, yet wasn't beholden to any kind of realistic continuity, so I don't bother to consider anything in that novel to be reliable source material. It was mildly entertaining (when I was like 8 years old) but I don't truly remember more than that.

Beyond that, no EU material should really be considered canon, even when those rare coincidences of compatibility occur. For instance, one of the PC video games (TIE FIGHTER, I think) has a backstory about how a TIE Pilot gets recruited from his subjugated world. While indeed the OT never ever tells us definitively whether the Stormtrooper army is made of clones or not, in light of the influence of '60s politics on Lucas, it seems rather more likely that his original intention was to "say something" about imperialism and it's effect on populations. His "reimagining" of the saga in the years since is simply his easy way out of writing a story with deeper meaning and slips in some geeky sci-fi conventions "for the fans." So, undoubtedly, we'll see that all the Stormtroopers in the OT are supposed to be clones for no other reason than he just decided to do it all willy-nilly. It just seems to me to be a far better overall story if the Stormtrooper army is culled from "volunteers" from a thousand worlds under the "protection" of the Empire rather than simply grown in a petrie dish.

With all this in mind, I can't help but consider even the Prequels to be Expanded Universe material, with somewhat better production values than The Ewok Adventures. Very little of the Prequels thus far follow the story which George established (via backstory, OT continuity, and promised in 1980s era interviews), so the only true canon material that exists to date are the three OT films and their novelizations. The rest of the stuff is fun for what it is, but that's as far as it goes. :)

Kidhuman
11-05-2003, 11:15 AM
Ok, I am kinda indifferent on it. While I own No EU toys what so ever, I have just started reading some of the novels. I like a the few of them that I have read. Heir tothe Empire was a great story line. Shadow Hunter was a good book that lead right into EP1. I have just started reading NJO books. So far they are OK. Tales of the Bounty Hunter was decent and comical.

Now with the CLone Wars line of toys, I am deciding whether or not to get certain figures that are not part of the original story line such as Asajj and Durge. Another member told me what happens in the cartoon will go directly into EP3 which makes it part of the story line.Actually I have one EU figure, the ARC Trooper, it looks cool so I got it. The Concept Stormy I believe I will pass on.

I dont hate the EU, but I believe it is not part of the main story line. The one good thing about it, is that it keeps SW going. Maybe after EP3, I willget into it more and more but only time will tell.

Exhaust Port
11-05-2003, 11:48 AM
With that said I think 98% of EU is mainly based on juvenile concepts with less than talented writers.
There is the biggest problem with the EU. Not only are the topics stupid they are just poorly written. Most are full of fluff as the writers try to give what a SW fanboy wants. "Disappointed that Boba Fett, a background character at best, was killed off? Well I'll dream up some bizarre scenerio where he actually lives and does some cool stuff!" I didn't like what happened in ESB and ROTJ because of what I wanted to happen after ANH. If the EU didn't spend so much time dwelling on movie fantasies and actually attempted to expand the SW universe then they would be fine.

I rather enjoyed the Zahn Trilogy because I didn't feel that it was playing off the OT to move the story along. The SW Universe wasn't damaged or advanced by the story.

Now I was a big reader of the EU for quite a while but lost interest in the series as the stories got worse and worse. I can take it or leave it. If you like it that's fine just don't attempt to justify or explain the SW movies because of what you read in a EU story. They are seperate from the movies, THEY ARE NOT CANON! The PT proved that by ignoring everything that was the EU wrote about pre-OT.


Also figures are being spent on EU figures. Rather than getting a new film figure we get an EU concept figure like Clone Emperor, Obi-Wan Cold Weather, Darth Maul sith training deluxe, etc...
This is the worse thing to come about as a result of the EU. The Star Wars movies have provided us with so much visual candy and the toy manufacturers can only make so many figures. Why are they denying us what we all know with some vague spin off from something that few have interest in? Too bad. :(

billfremore
11-05-2003, 01:22 PM
One final note: If you are reading this thread you do need to take part in it. Explore this issue, and do not be afraid of what others think. Lets finally talk about this issue as a group. If you don't take part in this thread after reading it your avoiding the topic and not confronting it. That is nothing short of cowardice!

Nobody calls me yella! :Pirate:

Personally I like the EU, my favorite part of it all is the valiant effort they make to ensure continuity between all of it. The video games, the comics, the novels, the role playing, etc. etc.

I never considered the EU canon in the SW universe. The films have last say although I wonder who decided that in the first place?

I have almost every novel and enjoy some of the video games. I also have a few EU figs and read Star Wars Tales (the comic) religiously.

This stuff is is supposed to be fun, I think people lose sight of that when arguing over colours of lightsabers and how characters are related to each other.

darthzirock
11-05-2003, 02:51 PM
When you are engaged in disscusion about a film question (pick any topic), and someone starts talking about EU stuff trying to explain what you see in the film what is your impression of it?

B. Although they may have some valid points their EU opinion is really in the way of the topic being discussed. A movie is being discussed not comics or novels.


What do you think is EU material. Pick the category closest to your opinion and if I missed something or you have an optional opinion make a F category for your opinion. Or add on to what you select.

C. The only material that is not EU that should be linked with the actual movies should be Technical movie and Character Books, movie novelizations, Cartoons, video Games and Spinoff movies.


what do you accept as worthy cannon material?
* Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye, because it was the first Lucas-approved spin-off and existed as the only book other than the novelizations for years.
* Shadows of the Empire: Again, a project closely supervised by Lucas himself, and one that actually serves to link the storylines between TESB and ROTJ.
* Visual Dictionaries: These things are prepped using scrtipt notes and info from Lucas.
* Movie novelizations: Especially the OT books, because these were done when Lucas had more time to actually go over the content with the writers.
* And, obviously, the films themselves, although some of the Special Edition stuff contradicts the original release versions (like Greedo firing first). In cases of stuff like that, I'll go with the original release versions, as they are backed up by the movie novelizations.

Kidhuman
11-05-2003, 03:28 PM
* Visual Dictionaries: These things are prepped using scrtipt notes and info from Lucas.

Where can you find these Visual Dictionaries???????????????????????

El Chuxter
11-05-2003, 04:41 PM
Where can you find these Visual Dictionaries???????????????????????

Most bookstores carry them, and they're oversized hardbacks. The Classic Trilogy and Episode I editions have been clearanced at a lot of stores for a few years now.

I consider them less canon, as they directly contradict not only the films and other sources, but even themselves at times. But they're still really cool.

I'll add my thoughts on the issue at hand in the near future. :)

Turbowars
11-05-2003, 06:12 PM
I can care less about EU crap. It really has nothing to do with the films, because the big man himself didn't write it. I haven't read any EU books and I have no desire to. If it's your think than that cool. EU goes along with fans that like to dress up as Stormies and Scouts. LOL J/K Stillakid.;) I did buy the Thrawn figure and still wonder why. I guess I could get into it. Maybe after the movies are gone and I'm having SW withdrawls.

TheDarthVader
11-05-2003, 06:14 PM
EU is a waste of anyone's time. It was created for one purpose: MONEY. $$$$$$$$ I do not accept EU and I don't care what Lucas says...Boba Fett died in the Sarlaac. If it was possible to escape from the Sarlaac, why such a build up in ROTJ when the three rebels are condemed to death? Why not...you are condemed to take your chances with the all powerful Sarlaac?? If the Sarlaac was so big and bad why have a bounty hunter escape from it? Does not make sense!
The Zahn trilogy is cool but I do not accept it as cannon.
The only information that is cannon to me is what is in the movies and what is in the official movie novels. Also, some of the information in the West End Games books. EU is lame...I do not read the books or comics. EU is PU because it stinks! :D

Dr Zoltar
11-05-2003, 06:29 PM
Well my attention span today is fairly short, so I'm going to post without reading much of what's posted before this...


I'm not a fan of the EU books. I tried to read the Timothy Zahn series but felt they were poorly written and gave up midway through book 2. I've read some of the more recent comic books and they are OK, but not spectacular.

If EU figs are made, I'll buy them. Some of them looked pretty cool. But I do consider them more of an "alternate universe" Star Wars than fitting in with the movies.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-05-2003, 07:37 PM
I hate most EU. The only Jedi during the OT are Luke, Obi-Wan and Yoda - not Kyle Katarn, none of that crap. Boba Fett DIED in the Sarlacc. There's no such thing as the Yuhzaan Vong (of course there's no such thing as anything in Star Wars, but you know what I mean).
The only EU that I think is canon is most of the PT stuff. I don't agree with some of it though - Obi-Wan leaving the Jedi Order at age 12, Qui-Gon's alien master, etc. The only things I find truly, truly canon are the movies, and to a lesser extent, all the Clone Wars stuff out now. That's IT.

Darth Jax
11-05-2003, 09:28 PM
i look at the 1st released version of each film being 'true' or canon if you will info on star wars. since it comes straight from the movie the novelization of it is included as well. anything said by GL in a print interview or on tape (that he can't later deny or change) i consider true. anything else on any media (video, print, game, etc) is EU. i have no problems with EU. i played all the old nintendo games, long before they had cut scenes and had to have a printed background included. lost interest in the new generation of game systems so haven't kept up there. never read the comics until recently, want to see how the clone wars might play out. i've read all the pre-NJO books at some time or another, most when they were first released so i can't always remember the facts straight.

i have no problem with people trying to use EU to explore/explain their thinking on things (i'm guilty of that myself). just as everyone has an opinion on any number of topics, GL and the movies trump all. still even 2 people can watch the same scene in any movie and walk away with a different thought on what they just saw. EU isn't for everyone and there is certainly more infoi out there than even i care to know. i don't spend my time poring over red 5's database or even the official sites blurbs on characters, places, and events. i'll read the comics and books and if i can't find an answer within a movie i'll take an EU explaination until it is proven invalid.

i'd rather not have figures that appear only in EU sources. if you want to equip luke or qui-gon with gear fitting an EU adventure thats one thing, but i don't want some designers thoughts of what a ship or character might look like that only appears in print, i'd much rather get a figure of some alien with a blink & you missed it screen appearance.

LusiferSam
11-05-2003, 10:59 PM
For me the EU is a funny thing. At times I've loved and couldn't get enough. At others I've hated it and wished it would go way. Right now I'm on the hate it. NJO is most responsible this feeling. There are a few things like Heir to the Empire and Shadows that I enjoy but I no long view them as canon. My view on people do like the EU is we're all SW fans. Some like Han better then Luke, some like Luke better Han. What's the matter here? So if you like the EU fine, if you don't fine. I plan on posting more to thread later so be prepared.

JediTricks
11-06-2003, 09:03 PM
When you are engaged in disscusion about a film question (pick any topic), and someone starts talking about EU stuff trying to explain what you see in the film what is your impression of it?

Pick one of the following.

A. The giver of the information needs a life, their input is useless!
B. Although they may have some valid points their EU opinion is really in the way of the topic being discussed. A movie is being discussed not comics or novels.
C. I don't know what to think because I don't know how much weight to place on EU material.
D. They could be right after all EU is generally accepted material.
E. I bow to the EU gods and accept that the fundamental principles of EU material is absolute.B, no question at all in my mind, especially with Lucas stating that the only canon is what's on-screen (and now, what's on-screen most recently since his films are never finished). The EU can be interesting, but ultimately it's the difference between facts and extrapolation from those facts. Even the reference books are EU, so only the films themselves are canon. Some of the stuff in the reference books may eventually be used or canonized (if you will ;)) onto the big screen (a la Yoda's lightsaber) or in the SW.com website, but true canon is only the films.

Ultimately, it's up to each one of us individually what to accept as our personal canon for Star Wars, whether that be films, novelizations, reference books, the official site, or even personal theories that are neither confirmed nor denied by the films.

Personally, I like most of the reference books, SOTE, Dark Forces video game saga, and the Zahn trilogy, but they're not canon to me. Another EU book I really dig is the "Illustrated Star Wars Universe", which falls somewhere in between reference and fiction, but is interesting and well-written and has great artwork.

Exhaust Port
11-06-2003, 10:16 PM
Where do you stand on having EU characters and vehicles made into toys?

As I stated before, I don't care for it. Creating those toys only lessens what we get of the pure SW universe, the movie universe. What some guy in his basement dreamt as being a cool fetish for Darth Maul doesn't need to have resources used to make it.

Hellboy
11-06-2003, 11:03 PM
I personally enjoy some EU material but none of it appeals to me on the same level as the films and I consider none of it to be canon. I find some of the stories in the video games to be fun and enjoy reading the comics but wouldn't say they're always great just someplace I can get my SW fix. I did enjoy the Zahn Trilogy but never got into any of the books beyond that. I guess I consider most of it as if it were like an issue of the old Marvel Comics series What If? You can take it or leave it but really all you have to do is consider it a possibility to enjoy it.

As far as toys go I do buy the EU figures I find to be quality but would never choose them to be made over characters from the films. I think if Hasbro throws in the occasional EU figure into the mix it's usually cool and something different, a break from the norm if you will. I see it as a way to keep the line fresh and maybe a way of extending it's life by making sure there are still film characters that can be produced for the first time years after EPIII in an attempt to keep fans interested. As long as it doesn't become their primary focus I don't have a problem with it.

OC47150
11-07-2003, 07:57 AM
Thank for inviting me to the party, Jaff.

I had to give this topic some thought. Overall, I do enjoy the EU, but I view the EU as a separate, yet sometimes parallel line to the rest of the SW universe.

Sometimes the stories and comics can mesh evenly with the real/known storyline (Darth Maul's Shadow Hunter, the Qui-Gon pre-TPM story, several of the Tales books, and SOTE, for example) while other stories/comics are continuation of a theme introduced in the traditional SW world, like the Zahn books and X-wing squadron stories. What's disappointing is, like with any known and established story, a publishing company hires a writer who writes a subpar story. How many of us have wasted time reading a book like that?

I, too, am disturbed/frustrated/disappointed when what we fans have considered lore for years (the origins of Boba Fett) get erased and rewritten with the swipe of a pen. But I can live with it.

I enjoy the EU toys, own most of them except for two EU figures.

tagmac
11-07-2003, 03:11 PM
I'm kinda' mixed about the EU. The Thrawn Trilogy, and even the Dark Empire comic books, were responsible for starting the new SW craze that got Lucas wanting to make the prequels in the first place, IMO. Heck, Lucas used Coruscant from the book, so in a way, I'll accept it as partial canon. The Clone Wars, "Splinter...." and Shadows are also mostly Lucas' ideas, so of course I'll accept them as well. The rest of the EU is a toss up. Tales of the Jedi comic series was alright, as it took place so far in the SW "past," that it really had little effect on what is canon. Even the Jedi Kids series didn't bother me. The books were fun reads, and gave us some adventures of the Solo children - an EU idea that really didn't bother me, as it seemed by the end of ROTJ that Han and Leia would marry anyway. I've enjoyed some of the other older books, but the last few I bought remain unread, collecting dust on my bookshelf. I didn't even bother buying the newer books the have come out the last couple years.

As far as the toys are concerned, Clone Wars and Shadows were fine (shoulda' made a Guri figure), and I didn't mind getting Mara, Thrawn, and Jedi Leia (among the others) in that EU wave. As long as the characters are new, I don't have a problem with the occasional EU (non-clone wars) figure being released. I certainly would like to see the Solo kids made into figures (an idea likely unpopular with many). That being said, The Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Maul EU figures were all completely unneccesary, and I only bought them because I am a completist, who should have thought better of it at the time.

JediTricks
11-07-2003, 07:02 PM
Heck, Lucas used Coruscant from the book, so in a way, I'll accept it as partial canon. Only the name, the rest of the idea of the Imperial city-planet had been fleshed out ideas for ANH and ROTJ that were ultimately left unused.


On the issue of EU toys, if they're cool, not too many of 'em, I don't mind. I may not buy 'em all, but even the concept toys like the Concept Stormie are things I can get into if they're well-done and from the good ideas (unlike the Celeryman and his Carrotmobile, aka the EU Cloud Car).

TheDarthVader
11-07-2003, 08:28 PM
Oh yeah, on toys: I do not buy any EU toys. NOT ONE!

:D