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JediCole
11-06-2003, 03:31 PM
I have received at two of my email accounts an invitation to partake in a survey regarding the Jedi Master Points. Has anyone else received this? Have you answered the survey? I have from one of the email accounts and at first found the survey to be poorly realized from the standpoint of collecting data on what we think about the choice of programs for redemption of the Jedi Master Points. However, I was pleased to find that at the end, a field was provided that accomodated all I had to say on the matter. I somehow manaaged to lose the text (though I was trying to copy and paste for this very thread), but the crux of my response was as follows:

Too little, too late, too bad!

My chief complaint was that many collectors (I can't be the only one) either did not maintain their JMPs because either #1: There was no prior uniform program for Proof of Purchase Seals and/or Jedi Master Points and #2: ALL prior programs required a cash register receipt dated within a specific time frame, and often from a single retailer (like Wal-Mart's poster offer)! The result was simply, why bother to amass a collection of such seals if they would be worthless without a register receipt. And why maintiain your receits against just such a contengency if they would have to be recent to be valid? Back in the 70's and 80's I had quite a collection of POP Seals from Star Wars toys, right up to the bitter end. But back then if you had a mail-in offer, you just needed the seals, NOTHING ELSE, so stockpiling was worthwhile. They just stopped having offers.

With the contemporary line (1995-Present) you had the transition from POP Seals to Jedi Master Points. Those who have amassed from day one are out of luck with the tons of POPs they have, as only JMPs are valid, further emphasizing the reason that many will not have a huge number of points. And even then, it appears you would have to have bought at least one of everything that has been released since the inception of the JMPs AND done some serious troop building as well to even come close to the phenomenal volume of points needed to win some of these auctions.

Another concern I voiced was that of the product selected. More than a few of us have complained about the exclusionary approach to releasing the second wave of Cantina sets! Given the continued relationship between the Fan Club and Hasbro (as seen with the Holiday Yoda), ther is no reason that these sets could not have been offered through the Club (like back when their previous owners bailed out the Pote Snitkin wave that was doomed to obscurity. Jorg Sacul is rather a disappointment too, considering it was supposedly a show exclusive and supposedly sold out! Much like people finding Muftak and Kabe at discount stores a year or so after they became unavailable.

A good deal of the rest of my response escapes me, but these were the primary issues. I closed by remarking that if the program through which JMPs can be redeemed is not drasticly changed to something more favorable to ALL collectors and not just a minority, I would simply be offering my personal supply of Jedi Master Points on eBay auctions and using the proceeds to purchase more Star Wars toys from the mass releases. Those toys that I want that I stand more than a fighting chance of obtaining!

Thoughts anyone?

Also, I produced this thread independently of the existing JMP thread as it is more about the auctions themselves, what is offered, who has won, etc. This thread is specifically about the survey from Hasbro regarding the auctions, so I will ask that my fellow SSG Moderators do not merge this thread into that one.

amidalak
11-06-2003, 04:14 PM
i understand why you made this a seperate thread, but almost everything you said in response to the survey has been gone over extensively in the other thread. but to throw my opinion in, i still like the auctions, and i think this survey is hasbro's attempt to work the bugs out, so to speak. i know that not everyone likes the auction because not everyone gets something, but since that doesn't bother me, i hope the auctions continue and more hard to find product gets made available for some dedicated collector.

JediCole
11-06-2003, 04:33 PM
Yes, while I suspected that the underlying issues had been touched on in some degree in the other thread, I felt that the specific issue of Hasbro's survey needed to be addressed. While I would not go so far as to say I hate the auctions, I feel that they are a poorly realized conclusion to a considerable wait for Hasbro to do something with the Jedi Master Points. And while I agree that the survey should help Hasbro work out some of the bugs in the system, the structure of the survey is such that, like many surveys, only allows a partial view at the full picture. When I respond to the survey via my other email account, I will try to make note of the exact questions asked, so as to better illustrate this point. The problem inherent in all "pat answer" surveys is that they cannot ask every conceivalbe question. And more often than not thend to reask the same questions in different ways. As I recall there was nothing in the survey proper that would address the issue of offering ultra rare items via these auctions alone (rather than through the Fan Club for example). But of course, the saving grace of that structure was the inclusion of a text area where detailed issues could be addressed. At least it shows that the survey's designers recognized that a handful of questions alone cannot fully illustrate all that is right and all that is wrong with the auctions.

And to address the point about making these rare items available to some collectors, how many here have the requisite 100-500,000 plus points needed to compete in some of these auctions? Drop a not in here if you actually have, say, 400,000 to 1,000,000 points on hand. I'm just curious.

Lobito
11-06-2003, 05:58 PM
I got that mail today also, but to no avail since i live in Mex City...anyway the bids are really ridiculous!! Nobody has 1,000,000 JMP not even 500,000 they should forget about the auction and start giving figures the old fashioned way. Like kenner did!! ;)

Jargo
11-06-2003, 06:31 PM
Got it, filled out the relevent field and ticked the relevent boxes. In the nicest possible most diplomatic terms I told them where to shove their auctions and why. Sounds like i'm not the only one saying this.
It won't make a scrap of difference though because whatever you say to them goes in one ear and out the other. Hasbro will do as hasbro wants and screw everyone.

JediCole
11-06-2003, 06:35 PM
I got that mail today also, but to no avail since i live in Mex City...anyway the bids are really ridiculous!! Nobody has 1,000,000 JMP not even 500,000 they should forget about the auction and start giving figures the old fashioned way. Like kenner did!! ;)

Or like Hasbro USED TO DO! If you collected G.I. Joe figures back in the day, Hasbro used to publish an entire CATALOG of items for which you could redeem your "Flag Points", including many figures that were NEVER released on the card! Like The Frige. Odd how different they are now than they were then.

amidalak
11-06-2003, 07:26 PM
first, the survey:

a. the survey's purpose seems to me to be a means to improve on the auctions, not to decide if they are a good idea or not. in that respect, i think it does do a good job in getting the full picture.

b. for whatever reason, hasbro doesn't seem to be able to or is unwilling to work well with the fan club to get exclusive items to fan club members. what's more, if the survey's purpose is to improve on the auctions, then the question of the fan club isn't relevant.

c. like you said, they did add a text area, so all bases are covered. maybe i'm wrong about the survey's purpose, but seeing as we are almost a month and a half into the auctions and they are scheduled to run until dec. 31, i doubt they are evaluating whether it is a good idea or not. i kinda think like emp. j., i don't think the big h cares quite that much. enough maybe to try and improve the auctions, not enough to discard them and try something else.

now, the auctions (all this stuff is in the other thread, but i'm going to throw it in, just for kicks!):

d. nothing in the auctions has gone for 100,000 JMP's, or even close. i think the highest amount for an item ended up being the kitik keed'kak, which if i remember correctly went for 17,840 JMP's, a reasonable number for an army builder type collector. most items have gone for between 2,000 and 10,000 JMP's.

e. hasbro has repeatedly stated they will not do a mail away, and no amount of complaining is going to change that.

f. why should everyone have the opportunity to bid on the auctioned items?

Turbowars
11-06-2003, 09:05 PM
LOL EJ, but yeah shove the auctions in your ---. Here's a survey for you Hasbro. What do you think the --- means?

Lobito
11-06-2003, 10:25 PM
Times change and i think everyone deserves the chance to get whichever figure hasbro releases, but not by this ridiculous bid, like Jedi Cole said...use the old catalog method and use the points that way. Aaaaaaaaar :Pirate: Whats up Jargo!! Long time no see....Cheers my friend!! :D

amidalak
11-06-2003, 10:42 PM
this thread should probably get merged, as nothing new is really being said. good try, though, jedicole, i tried to start a thread a while back that was about just the points and how many people had collected, but it always got back to people complaining about the auctions rather than staying on topic. oh, and one more thing, sorry lobito, you guys from out of the states are really the only folks who get hosed in the auctions, as you don't have a chance even if you wanted one. ignoring overseas fans sucks.

Lobito
11-06-2003, 10:45 PM
I know my friend, such is life. :)

darthzirock
11-06-2003, 11:01 PM
Well, I basically told Hasbro that it was an ill-conceived and even worse executed ploy to get the collectors harping about the JMP to shut the %*&# up once and for all. "There, we did something! Now, move out your parents' basements/attics/garages, stop imaging what was under Princess Leia's brass bikini and get real lives!" I let them know that their condescending slap-in-the-face was neither appreciated nor widely embraced by collectors.

amidalak
11-06-2003, 11:17 PM
I let them know that their condescending slap-in-the-face was neither appreciated nor widely embraced by collectors.

man, this is turning into the other thread, but since no one could explain it in twenty pages of the other thread, how exactly is giving collectors the opportunity to use JMP's condescending or a slap in the face, especially since hasbro has made it flat out clear they will not do a mail away? (overseas fans excluded, it does suck for you.) also, someone is bidding and winning in the auctions, so someone probably appreciates and embraces these auctions, and probably more widely than these forums reflect. given the reality of the situation, these auctions were the best option, and with the exception of a few jokers at the beginning messing around, they seemed to have gone off pretty well. i would much rather see that sample kitik, that had been offered and rejected at retail and has not seen mass production, go to a collector for an envelope of pieces of cardboard than show up on ebay. in order to have 17,840 points, you have to spend a ton of money in star wars toys, so who better to reward than someone who has been that loyal to the brand?

darthzirock
11-06-2003, 11:46 PM
man, this is turning into the other thread, but since no one could explain it in twenty pages of the other thread, how exactly is giving collectors the opportunity to use JMP's condescending or a slap in the face, especially since hasbro has made it flat out clear they will not do a mail away? (overseas fans excluded, it does suck for you.)

Does every collector in the continental United States have a computer? Does every fan have access to the Internet so they can spend an hour or two every day monitoring auctions to see how their bids are doing? I think not.

Do you have any idea how much postage it's going to cost to send Hasbro those 17,840 JMP's for that one stinking Kitik Keed'kak? Even 2,000-5,000 is going to take a bit more than a 37-cent stamp.

The two times I actually visited the auctions, there was nothing I was even interested in bidding on! Jorg Sacul--not interested. Toyfare Vader--already passed on him before. If they ever offered an Ephant Mon or other rare figures I might have liked, I never saw it.

If you have the time to spend hunkered in front of your computer, monitoring auctions and cutting out thousands of JMP's, then I guess the auctions are your reward. But to a lot of other collectors, myself included, it's like winning one of those Official Marvel No-Prizes. In the end, you still get nothing.

amidalak
11-06-2003, 11:59 PM
Does every collector in the continental United States have a computer? Does every fan have access to the Internet so they can spend an hour or two every day monitoring auctions to see how their bids are doing? I think not.

not going to argue this one, given the fact that even the library in my backwoods, hillbilly hometown they had internet access more than 5 years ago. one really has to be out in the sticks to not have any access to the internet in the U.S. and if you didn't have internet access, how would you know about the auctions anyway, really?


The two times I actually visited the auctions, there was nothing I was even interested in bidding on! If they ever offered an Ephant Mon or other rare figures I might have liked, I never saw it.

if they don't have anything you wanted to bid on, why are you complaining? you wouldn't have had the opportunity to get anything at all without the auctions. oh, sorry, and i'm not sure, but i do think they had an ephant or two up for bid a few weeks ago.


In the end, you still get nothing.

who says anyone should get anything? why is there the feeling in this community that hasbro owes us something? they are giving us an opportunity we wouldn't have had otherwise since they have said they will not do a mail away, so how is that a bad thing? and postage, come on, that's a stretch, but that might be the only argument we didn't see over in the other thread.

Turbowars
11-07-2003, 11:16 AM
Here we go, another Hasbro sympathizer.:rolleyes:

amidalak
11-07-2003, 11:55 AM
whatever, turbowars, but this one really gets me. of all the legitimate stuff we as collectors of this brand have to complain about (poor articulation, often poor facial sculpts, stupid action gimmicks, saga throne room luke, etc., etc.,) we complain about what was, and is, a kind gesture. there are only a few of those kitik's that were produced since the retailers turned that set down. i would rather see that kitik go to someone who must be a pretty big fan essentially for free than the alternative, which is ebay, where ever dealer and scalper with a little extra cash has the chance to snag it up and then drain someone else's wallet. again, why is there the feeling that hasbro owes us something? they could have and should have, given the spoiled brat "wah, i can't get anything!" reaction that has been displayed, not done anything with the JMP's. oh, but then everyone would have complained that they didn't do anything, looks like a no win situation to me. and please don't say they could have done a mail away, the reality is that they have flat out refused to do one, they say for financial reasons, so it wasn't an option. back to the survey, though, they are looking for ways to improve the auctions, how is that anything but a good thing?

JediCole
11-07-2003, 12:15 PM
While Amidalak makes some very valid points about some of the concerns expressed here by myself and others, one of the primary concerns is ignored outright. That of the points themselves. Though admittedly I had exaggerated the volume of points being passed about on these auctions, the bottom line on said points is this. Like myself, I am certain that many collectors who actually open their figures threw away countless hundred (or even thousands) of Jedi Master Points during the period that Hasbro drug their heels on arriving at the auctions as their solution. And it was NOT ONLY the lag between the switch from Proof of Purchase seals to the seemingly (at the time) more meaningful Jedi Master Points. It was also the aforementioned (in my posts) redemption programs that required a DATED register receipt. And this was not only the Wal-Mart poster offer. If memory serves, the B'omarr Monk and at least one other mail-in offer has such restrictions, so it is not simply a matter of a particular retailer setting restrictions (since Wal-Mart was a co-sponsor of the poster, I do not begrudge them wanting a piece of the action, so to speak, via the sales of figures and toys). Because of the long wait for a program and the precident of very specific receipt requirements over and above the so-called Proof of Purchase, there seemed little point prior to the announcement of the auctions to stockpile JMPs. And even those who have kept ever POP and JMP receive no reward for their purchases of figures prior to the inception of the JMPs as only JMPs are valid for these auctions. That means that over 100 different Hasbro produced Star Wars items that a collector may have purchased (and maintianed the POPs from) amount to nothing in regard to the auctions as a reward program.

Now to the issue of Hasbo's contention that they will never do mail order. That is always the tricky thing with taking everything one is told as gospel. Things change. Even corporate dogma shifts with the winds of commerce and is never set in stone. I seem to recall a few years ago (perhaps some other SSG members can find this in the archives or elsewhere) that Hasbro pronounced that they were discontinuing store exclusives of Star Wars toys in response to collector outcry. The Hasbro website exclusives (like the B'omarr Monk) were the ONLY exclusives to go by the way side despite the announcement that they were "never" going to do another store exclusive. It seems that in short order we saw things like the FAO Imperial Shuttle, the 12" Clone Troopers from KB, and the terribly current Target exclusive Leia/Speederbike and the recent TRU multipacks. Now before you go quoting this paragraph as an indictment of the store exlusives policy, let me clarify that I strongly believe that this particular program ensures that many figures that would never be made otherwise get produced and distributed. Granted it is not always the most fair approach to collectors (there are not Targets everywhere), at least it means that some of this stuff gets made. The point I am making here is that you cannot always count on what Hasbro says today to be a statement of policy in perpetuity. And as for no amount of complaining serving to change such policy, one need only look back a scant few years to gauge the difference in Hasbro's current adult collector frieindly attitude and their prior, "Our customer base is comprised of children, any adult collectors that may be out there represent a very miniscule minority.", opinion of the past. And it was only through a concerted effort at educating Hasbro on the part of collectors and dedicated groups like SSG (and the sales of decidedly adult collector oriented toys by other manufacturers - McFarlane Movie Maniacs are a good example) that this attitude changed. I promise you that we would not have seen two different Imperial Dignitaries in the plans for the line six years ago, they would have been deemed less than marketable to kids.

Finally, I would like to address the issue of "does every collector have a right to access". That is certainly a fine line when one looks at it as a right. The real issue here is a matter of deliberate exclusion. While I will concur that even small public libraries have internet ready computers, the point brought up about how one would know about the auctions if one did not have a computer further illustrates the exclusion problem. But ulike even 1995 when the POTF2 line was launched, today there is a wealth of information about the goings on in the toy industry via three very strong monthly publications aimed squarely at collectors (Lee's, Tomart's, ToyFare). So it is not outside the realm of possibility that someone who did not have a computer could come into knowlede of the auctions by proxy. And while that person does not necessarily have a right to access, this type of exclusionary approch does inevitably cause collectors to turn away from the hobby. More than once the Star Wars line has been threatened by lack of retailer support due to flagging sales. A good part of the blame for that problem certainly rests at the doorstep of the over-blown hype campaign for Episode 1 and the level to which licensees and retailers bought into the fervor, and grossly overproduced/over ordered. To some degree we still feel that backlash to this day (see Wal-Mart's current miniscule Star Wars section). However, another problem has been exclusivity and exlusionary programs. There have been no shortage of threads on this forum alone regarding once completist (and even casual collectors) who have either cut back or stopped collecting Star Wars outright due to being unable to reasonalby complete their collections. Things like the limited access nature of the auction program to otherwise unavailable figures (like Kitik Keed Kak) will simply cause more collectors to lose interest and drop out of the hobby. And that, my friends, translates into a slow reduction in overall sales at the normal retail level and the repeat of a threat to the longevity of the line as retailers again lose their confidence. And going back to the whole issue of does every collector have a right to every figure, not per se, but if the figures were produced, why not make them available to those who want them (the second Cantina sets in this case). Certainly not every collector is as knowledgeable as we at SSG as to what is available. I've had countless people who consider themselves hardcore collectors remark that they never knew the Fambaa was made when they see it at our shop or at toy and comic shows. This is partly due to lack of knowledge (of both the line and great resources like SSG) and partly due the exclusivity of that particular toy.

In the long run, the auctions are not a bad idea, but would have been a better idea if we had known from the outset that there was going to be a means to use our JMPs without having to be subject to further, date-specific documentation of our purchases. And if multiples of any given auction item were available so more than an handful of bidders could vie for these items. Finally, though Hasbro has stated that they will do no mail order, it occurs to me that when an auction winner redeems thier points, and Hasbro sends out the item or items won, they ultimatly have engaged in a kind of...dare I say it?...mail order!

JediCole
11-07-2003, 12:22 PM
Here we go, another Hasbro sympathizer.:rolleyes:

It is unfortunate that anyone who says anything favorable about Hasbro is labeled thus. It is all too often that the issues become far too black and white here. I think Hasbro does great work in some respects, terrible work in others, and that they will never please all of us on all fronts.

However, I will also point out that it is unfortunate that if someone complains about something Hasbro has done (poor sculpts, stupid gimics, bad distribution), they are just as likely to be labeled a Hasbro basher or some such. The real point of these forums is an open discussion of all aspects of Hasbro's Star Wars line. And yes, we are going to have differing opinions, but that does not make one poster's opinion any more or less valid than another's.

Jawa Pinocchio
11-07-2003, 01:04 PM
Amidalak Hasbro totally bowed down to the masses that believed they were shafted. No matter how many times you brown nosed that company on these forums, Hasbro proved that they were wrong by issuing that survey. And now in a feeble attempt to make good, on this so called “good auction” that you so proudly defend day and night on these forums!
I am happy to see that my efforts to change this insulting attempt to please the masses paid off. Your constant agonizing defeatist mentality of, “Hasbro won’t change things because they can’t afford to” has been put down once and for all. The masses have spoken and almighty Hasbro has flinched!
I gave Hasbro a piece of my mind on that survey. I know a lot of people will agree with me when I say it’s time to end corporate greed.
Don’t worry Amidalak you earned your wings in Hasbro heaven.

amidalak
11-07-2003, 01:14 PM
Because of the long wait for a program and the precident of very specific receipt requirements over and above the so-called Proof of Purchase, there seemed little point prior to the announcement of the auctions to stockpile JMPs.

no argument there, it would have been better had they had something planned from the outset.


Now to the issue of Hasbo's contention that they will never do mail order. That is always the tricky thing with taking everything one is told as gospel. Things change. And it was only through a concerted effort at educating Hasbro on the part of collectors and dedicated groups like SSG (and the sales of decidedly adult collector oriented toys by other manufacturers - McFarlane Movie Maniacs are a good example) that this attitude changed.

money talks, which is why we have the auctions instead of a mail away. hasbro is not going to produce a toy just to give it away, that is why for now, at least, a mail order is not going to happen. the stuff that is being auctioned has already been produced and is, essentially, leftovers. things do change, but your example that SSG and the other sites is what changed things isn't on the nose. slacking sales is what changed things, don't kid yourself for a minute believing that if the kiddy crap action features had been a hit and sold well that hasbro would have changed things because we collectors educated them.


Finally, I would like to address the issue of "does every collector have a right to access". That is certainly a fine line when one looks at it as a right. The real issue here is a matter of deliberate exclusion.

no one is deliberately excluded, hasbro doesn't know who is an opener or not, or who threw their points away or not. those are decisions made by the buyer, so any consequences of those actions lie solely on the buyer, not hasbro. you don't want to open, fine, but it's not hasbro's fault, so you really don't have a complaint that you can't participate. these are toys that are meant to be opened and played with, and if you do something other than that with them, or throw your points away, that is your problem. it would have been nice if hasbro had told us up front that the points would be used and in this way, but they didn't.


And while that person does not necessarily have a right to access, this type of exclusionary approch does inevitably cause collectors to turn away from the hobby. There have been no shortage of threads on this forum alone regarding once completist (and even casual collectors) who have either cut back or stopped collecting Star Wars outright due to being unable to reasonalby complete their collections. Things like the limited access nature of the auction program to otherwise unavailable figures (like Kitik Keed Kak) will simply cause more collectors to lose interest and drop out of the hobby.

people not being able to be completists has nothing to do with these auctions, but everything to do with terrible ordering practices by retailers and crappy product. hasbro wants to sell product, and does what it can to distribute toys to serve that purpose. wally world, target, and t-r-u have more to do with collectors leaving because of not finding product than hasbro does. nothing in these auctions is necessary to completing a collection, anyway, unless you collect prototypes as well as released figures. and the exclusives like jorg and toy fair vader, again, have little to do with these auctions, because people wouldn't have had access to these at all if they hadn't attended the conventions or gotten them from the fan club anyway. i don't buy your argument that these auctions are so limited access, either. computers in public libraries, schools, and home pc's are so prevalent in the U.S. that anyone who wants to participate in these auctions can find a way.


And going back to the whole issue of does every collector have a right to every figure, not per se, but if the figures were produced, why not make them available to those who want them (the second Cantina sets in this case).

kitik has not been "produced." apparently there have been some samples made, but since the retailers didn't want the 2nd cantina sets, they were not produced in mass quantities. the kitik that was auctioned was little more than a prototype.


In the long run, the auctions are not a bad idea, but would have been a better idea if we had known from the outset that there was going to be a means to use our JMPs without having to be subject to further, date-specific documentation of our purchases. And if multiples of any given auction item were available so more than an handful of bidders could vie for these items. Finally, though Hasbro has stated that they will do no mail order, it occurs to me that when an auction winner redeems thier points, and Hasbro sends out the item or items won, they ultimatly have engaged in a kind of...dare I say it?...mail order!

yes, the auctions would have been better if we had known all along this is what the JMP's were for. and multiples are available on most of the items, only a few have been quantities of one. since these auctions are scheduled to run until dec. 31st, there will be plenty of opportunity for more than a handful of bidders to participate, and there already has been. and finally, ok, yeah, it's kinda like mail order, but hasbro did not produce an individual item to mail away for, they are basically cleaning out the closets for the stuff to be auctioned.

Turbowars
11-07-2003, 01:17 PM
It is unfortunate that anyone who says anything favorable about Hasbro is labeled thus. It is all too often that the issues become far too black and white here. I think Hasbro does great work in some respects, terrible work in others, and that they will never please all of us on all fronts.

However, I will also point out that it is unfortunate that if someone complains about something Hasbro has done (poor sculpts, stupid gimics, bad distribution), they are just as likely to be labeled a Hasbro basher or some such. The real point of these forums is an open discussion of all aspects of Hasbro's Star Wars line. And yes, we are going to have differing opinions, but that does not make one poster's opinion any more or less valid than another's.Very true, but if anyone knows me around here, they will see that I praise and put down Hasbro all the time. I love what they do most of the time, but this auction set up really gets me going. I'm a momc collector and have no chance to get these figures from the auctions. In the past I have opened a few figures that I really liked and sent the UPC in for a mail away. Well now my only way to get these figures, is to destroy my way of collecting just to get a limited figure, I think not. BTW I really liked your post JediCole. Well thought out.:D

amidalak
11-07-2003, 01:24 PM
Amidalak Hasbro totally bowed down to the masses that believed they were shafted. No matter how many times you brown nosed that company on these forums, Hasbro proved that they were wrong by issuing that survey. And now in a feeble attempt to make good, on this so called “good auction” that you so proudly defend day and night on these forums!
I am happy to see that my efforts to change this insulting attempt to please the masses paid off. Your constant agonizing defeatist mentality of, “Hasbro won’t change things because they can’t afford to” has been put down once and for all. The masses have spoken and almighty Hasbro has flinched!
I gave Hasbro a piece of my mind on that survey. I know a lot of people will agree with me when I say it’s time to end corporate greed.
Don’t worry Amidalak you earned your wings in Hasbro heaven.

issuing this survey doesn't prove anything, jawa pinocchio, except maybe that hasbro wants to improve the auctions. have they canceled the auctions, or did i miss something? i'm a realist, jp, not a brown noser or any other insult you can think to throw at me. also, i don't believe i ever made the argument that hasbro can't afford to, more they are choosing not to based on financial reasons. i see a pretty big distinction there, even if you don't. i'm glad that you got to express your feelings to hasbro on the subject. but you have yet to make a point in either thread about how these auctions are insulting or bad with anything resembling logic or rational thought. i'm not trying to insult you, but check out jedicole's last post, you could learn a lot. and yes, i agree with you, it would be nice to end corporate greed.

Turbowars
11-07-2003, 01:26 PM
kitik has not been "produced." apparently there have been some samples made, but since the retailers didn't want the 2nd cantina sets, they were not produced in mass quantities. the kitik that was auctioned was little more than a prototype.

You don't know this unless you are from Hasbro. There has been plenty of rumors here about what happened to the wave.

amidalak
11-07-2003, 01:32 PM
You don't know this unless you are from Hasbro. There has been plenty of rumors here about what happened to the wave.

based this statement, if i remember correctly, on statements in the q/a over at gh. but it is fairly safe to say that it wasn't picked up by retailers, can we agree on that? also, just reasoning here, if they were produced in mass quantities, wouldn't we have seen more of them show up on ebay and such by now? i've searched for kitik before and after the auctions, not to buy, but just out of curiosity, and have only seen him once on there.

Turbowars
11-07-2003, 01:41 PM
based this statement, if i remember correctly, on statements in the q/a over at gh. but it is fairly safe to say that it wasn't picked up by retailers, can we agree on that? Oh sure we can agree on that. I'm just saying that there has been rumors that the wave has been completey produced and is sitting in a warehouse waiting for a retailor. As unbelieveable as that sounds (Hasbro is wasting $ and space for storage) Hasbro does some stupid things. I believe there are a lot around, but Hasbro is reluctant to release it. If these were to come to retail tomorrow, they would fly off the shelf for the 1st day or 2, but the rehash packs would sit. Yet another screw-up on hasbros part with releasing old figures when they could have thrown some new figs out there.

amidalak
11-07-2003, 01:46 PM
Yet another screw-up on hasbros part with releasing old figures when they could have thrown some new figs out there.

there is one of those legitimate complaints i was talking about. whoever thought it would be a good idea to release previously released figures, even slightly modified previously released figures, for ten bucks a pop needs to be fired, just for pure stupidity. the 2nd cantina wave should have been the 1st cantina wave!

Turbowars
11-07-2003, 01:54 PM
there is one of those legitimate complaints i was talking about. whoever thought it would be a good idea to release previously released figures, even slightly modified previously released figures, for ten bucks a pop needs to be fired, just for pure stupidity. the 2nd cantina wave should have been the 1st cantina wave! I don't know, I think the line would have failed just the same. The line sold like hot cake around here in the west, but the East was hit hard with the sets. Yet another down fall of Hasbros. They have no clue about distribution.:)

amidalak
11-07-2003, 02:05 PM
I don't know, I think the line would have failed just the same. The line sold like hot cake around here in the west, but the East was hit hard with the sets. Yet another down fall of Hasbros. They have no clue about distribution.:)

not so sure about that, i think there probably would have been a better market for a brand new fig (kitik) and a resculpt of dr. ugly. wuher, maybe not so much, but i think they probably would have sold better than the wave we got. did the cantina sets have much of a future, even if they had released the 2nd wave first? i don't think so, getting to far into the super star wars freak collector only realm of things. they would have been a great product for the fan club, though.

jedi master sal
11-07-2003, 02:05 PM
Well, I know this incessant arguing over mail-ordering isn't going to go away so let me add fuel to the fire. Hasbro has every possiblity of making this happen. I give you my two responses as posted to them from different e-mail accounts that they sent me a survey request to:


Response ONE:

Please do away with these and bring back the Mail-away offers. That is fair for everyone. Those who have mass amounts of points can continue to bid outrageously and those with few will never have a chance to win anything. Besides as seen the bidding got way out of hand and no protective measures were in place to stop what occured. Bringing back mail-away offers give even the collector who keeps everything in the package or on the card a reason to open stuff up. (BTW, I'm an "opener" and army builder!) Hence the large amount of points I have. A reasonable offer for mail-aways would be something like this: on average a figure cost $5 and you get 10 JMP's (jedi master points) so offer a mailaway of 200 JMP's + $3.00 s/h. You (Hasbro) make some money back for the figure and the consumer in a sense gets the money back he paid in tax for those toys, in the form of a figure. Also, please do not make the mistake of offering common figures. That will get you nowhere and further frustrate your loyal consumers. Rather do some SERIOUS research (check any of the major collecting sites) to see what people want for a figure. There could very well be some previously produced figures that people would like to "mail-away" for. Ex: Sio Bibble, TC-14, R2-B1 Those are just a few but I could give you plenty more.

Please feel free to contact me if you'd like a serious collectors input. I am in marketing myself and can readily help. Not looking for compensation but rather to help my fellow collector and the kids as well as you (Hasbro)

If you would like to contact me feel free to either e-mail me at:

I took this part out because it included personal phone numbers here

I eagerly anticipate your response and hope to NOT receive an automated one, so that I KNOW you are legitimately concerned about what the average consumer wants.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Christopher L. "Sal" Salerno


Response TWO:

Sorry to say but the auctions were a slap in the face to the Star Wars collector. We have been asking for some way to redeem these for sometime and before the stockpiling of points occured you could have offered Mail-aways. All the auctions seem to do was further frustrate collectors. Noone with just a few hundred points even had a chance. Even those with thousands like me hardly had a chance. Besides I'm NOT going to blow thousands of points out in one shot just for a Kitak Keedek figure. That particular item I bid on twice. Yes I want one but the "relative" value of those points did not warrant using them all in one shot. yes, I know you've stated that the points have no monetary value, but you can't be blind to the fact that they've actually been auctioned off on EBAY for instance. These auctions really only catered to the "ELITE" collectors and that is NOT fair.
Mail-away offers are the most fair. Now of course since you decided not to take action sooner, you now have even average collectors like myself that have thousands of points. What is "fair" value for the points? Well that is something to be decided, but I know from talking with many other collectors that should you decide to go with a mailaway offer, do not shoot for the moon in points. That is to say, do not ask for 1000 points and s/h. On average 1 figure garners a consumer 10 points. They would have to buy 100 figures ($500) worth of product to get 1 measily "free" figure. I know growing up as a kid I not only collected Star Wars but G.I.Joe and I all to well remember collecting the flag points for Joe stuff and it wasn't at all "expensive" to turn in your points. In my estimate no more than 200 Jedi Master Points should be required for a free figure. This is based on the calculation above. 1 figure=10 points, 20 figures=200 points ($100). not only does the collector do well but even the average kid can attain this. With the amount of product that you put out in any given year it is easy to attain 200 points in said year. So even a kid just getting toys from his/her allowance still has that opportunity of getting something for free. Now the issue of free should be just that. No s/h, but of course that might be unreasonable to ask, so figure that it cost you $1 to manufacture a figure (per figure that is) plus a fair shipping cost and the total it should take to get a mailaway would be 200 points and $2-3 s/h.

You could offer not just figures but playsets, ships, vehicles. Of course the bigger the item the more points and shipping. In the bigger items like ships you could have a small catalog with available toys to get through a mailaway offer. If you do this please take the time to do some research and find out what it is we fans want. I guarantee you'll get alot of response. Just like your getting from this, I imagine. Don't offer the common figure that just anyone can get going into a store, but rather the toys that you've had small production runs on, like: Sio Bibble, TC-14, Deluxe Spider droid, Obi-wan Kamino Deluxe and so on. There is a plethora of product that many NEVER saw at retail and it would be a GREAT gesture on your part to "reward" the collectors by giving them a chance to get one like this. I know people will say that the original purchase was the reward "Hey you got a figure for your money", but this is over and above that. I KNOW I've personally spent more than $10,000 on Star Wars toys and there are MANY who have spent in that range. Even here where I live I know of at least 6 others like me and those are the ones I know of. There are tons of fans who buy hundreds of dollars a year for this stuff and a small thank you would be well appreciated and received by your consumers.

I plead with you to reconsider the mail-away offers and do away with the auctions.

Thank you.

amidalak
11-07-2003, 02:24 PM
can't stop it...history repeating itself...exact words...make it stop...thread unstoppable...aaargh! :crazed:

OC47150
11-07-2003, 02:40 PM
I took the survey. I commented at the end that the bidding gets out of my range too quickly. This is a comment I've heard from several fans just in the last few weeks.

I also said I'd be more likely to use the Jedi Master Points to redeem a mail-in offer than auction item.

Vortex
11-07-2003, 05:07 PM
I have a gut hunch the JMP auction survey was a round about way for hasbro to figure out some sales counts, and how much additional cash we're dropping for additional figures, and if this auction spured buying from us to add to our counts.

They really didn't ask us any relative or important questions like, what offers did you like, did you find it easy to us, or what items do you want to see auctioned off...stuff that one would assume they would want to know to make it better. They were more focused on $ spent since the start, quantity of stuff bought and how much added buying we've done since the auction. They wanted to know how many JMP we had since the auction started, not how many you think you have since you started saving since 95.

I don't remember or recall any questions asking if we bid on anything or participated...just if we would at some future date. It was a rather worthless survey.

jjreason
11-08-2003, 05:48 PM
I answered as well, and blasted them for not letting Canadians and other international collectors in on the auction.

JediCole
11-12-2003, 02:20 PM
Two more thoughts about the Jedi Master Points Auctions:

1. At least the initial auctions will use up the stockpiles of the high bidders, meaining later auctions will become more accessable to us all.

2. The contention that was made that the auctions allow what Kitik Keed Kak's were made to go to a serious collector instead of on eBay at the hands of a scalper seems not to have been reasoned out. It seems to me that a "scalper" would be more ideally positioned to win such auctions and would immediatly put the treasured figure out on eBay to make far more on that rare figure than on a pile of ex-peg warmers sacrificed for thier JMPs. Just because serious collectors also want this stuff, don't assume that so called scalpers are not also bidding on these items for money!

amidalak
11-12-2003, 02:40 PM
The contention that was made that the auctions allow what Kitik Keed Kak's were made to go to a serious collector instead of on eBay at the hands of a scalper seems not to have been reasoned out. It seems to me that a "scalper" would be more ideally positioned to win such auctions and would immediatly put the treasured figure out on eBay to make far more on that rare figure than on a pile of ex-peg warmers sacrificed for thier JMPs. Just because serious collectors also want this stuff, don't assume that so called scalpers are not also bidding on these items for money!

We argued this one out in the other thread, too, but to recap, scalpers/dealers are not going to destroy their stock in order to win one of these auctions. They are not going to destroy hundreds of dollars of merchandise that they still have the opportunity to make a profit on in order to win one item that may or may not still find it's way to retail, that just doesn't make any sense. The kinds of point values that things like kitik, jorg, and tf vader are still going for eliminates scalpers from the biddings. In the case of kitik, we are talking about 17,840 points. If you just used figures to get those points, that's 1,784 figures (17,840 points/10 pts per fig=1,784.) At $4 a fig just to have bought that much merchandise, that's $7,136 (1,784 figs x $4 per fig=$7,136, I used $4 because I figured it took into consideration the clearanced priced figs, even though typically, these aren't the figs scalpers/dealers deal in). No scalper is going to destroy that much merchandise and take that kind of a loss to win one of these auctions, for a figure they might sell for $100. Besides, what scalper/dealer has this much product still on their hands? Most of the collectible stores around my area started thinning out their Star Wars product immediately after ep. 1 because of lack of demand.

This really should be merged with the other thread at this point, we are just repeating what has already been said there.