PDA

View Full Version : New Kind of Clone in Episode 3 - could it be Han?



Tycho
11-15-2003, 01:37 AM
The biological source for the Clones in Episode 3 will be from someone new, like the Clone Obi-Wan is friends with in the scenes we've read described on TFN.

I swear that it's poetic justice to make Han SOLO originate from this line - as the one who stood out alone, S-O-L-O, and didn't become a murdering zombie. Han won't be the one who becomes friends with Obi-Wan, as obviously we've read about how that clone dies. Plus Han will only be 11 years old. However, it can explain that laugh Ben sends Han's way when he says "No mystical energy field determines my destiny" when his very existence he owes to the Sith plot to control the galaxy.

I could go on, but I've laid out my "I think Han is a Clone theory" many times already.

I'm just waiting for the next inkling of proof as I keep scanning the spoilers on TFN.

2-1B
11-15-2003, 01:55 AM
No.

Absolutely not.

How you can be so anti-"Anakin-is-Vader" and yet so pro-"Solo is in the prequels" is beyond me. :D

Tycho
11-15-2003, 03:05 AM
LOL.

I'll have to think about it from your point of view and get back to you.

I don't know: to answer your question.

But I'll try:

I guess because it doesn't "reveal anything" tantamount to Solo's character if he is a Clone.

Perhaps when they take the helmets off the troopers they killed in the Falcon, to don their uniforms (off screen in ANH obviously) Luke gives Han a look when the two dead bodies have Han's face. He wouldn't have known, but Ben already did, R2 probably did, 3PO might've made a comment, Chewie would have already known (by scent or personal experience). So that leaves only Luke surprised, and then he's the one edgy "you know between his hollering and your blasting everything in sight, it's a wonder the whole station doesn't know we're here!"

However, that's not really relevant to the story, so it's not a spoiler for 4,5,6 if Han's character is based on a Clone line made for the Empire. It just makes Ben's knowing laugh about mystical energy fields and destiny, quite a foresight with Lucas' expert attention to detail in his directing.

But it makes Han all the more edgier if anything. Is he a mercenary who's good for our heroes so long as the money's good - or will he betray them like these Clones betray Obi-Wan in E3?

So the story goes further into showing that people can determine some of their choices to set themselves on the path to the right destiny, just like Luke chooses not to follow in the footsteps of his father.

In any case, it means Vader knows what Han is, and needs to torture him on Bespin all the more, because the loyal stormtroopers all know what he is.

It makes scenes like him standing over the bodies of dead Endor Stormtroopers all the more ironic, as well as explains how he knows the troopers will run when he chases them all on the Death Star - they're afraid of disorder or of becoming a crazy Clone, like they see him as.

Finally, I think it sets up a rivalry thing with Boba Fett SOMEHOW, as he's from the Clones he thinks are best (Jango's) and they have been wiped out and made obsolete by the new ones (Han's "father's") and of course the last Mandalorian would feel resentful.

I hope there will be more to it, like having Daniel Logan in the film.

Meanwhile, Temurra's role sparks questions.

And Harrison, about to work on Indiana Geriatrics and The Last Mile, is around and a friend of George's, so regardless of how he feels about the Star Wars projects now, he could do a non-speaking cameo as Han's "father," and they wouldn't have to pay Ford's salary for uttering any two lines.

However, Whoopi Goldberg played Guinan in Star Trek Generations for a cameo-extra's salary, because she is a long time fan of Star Trek, and she knew they couldn't afford her salary for a motion picture, so she played a key role in the movie for almost no money. (Whoopi credits Nichelle Nichols -Star Trek's Lt. Uhura - as her inspiration for black women, so Whoopi has been avid about giving back to Star Trek, hence the development of "Guinan."

Harrison may not be a Star Wars fan, but he does have a friendship with George, as well as having him to thank for his entire career, due to American Graffiti, Han Solo, and Indiana Jones. He would be doing barely anything as complicated as a starring role as Han Solo, as he'd not be playing an 11 year old, and no one's asking him to have scenes with JarJar.

So yes, a mercenary or bounty hunter is found to replace ...Jango...er...Durge...er ok - the SON OF DENN SOLO. And this off-color son of the fugitive Denn Solo decides to offer his survival skills into the new line of Clones that are secretly being prepared for the Empire. Harrison plays this part.

Later, something goes wrong with ONE of them. That SOLE Clone has a unique history in the SW universe ahead of him.

What a way to surprise non-spoiler fans and shock them, with the final piece of the background puzzle behind our main triumvate of heroes from the OT:

we know who Luke and Leia's parents are now, and what the story of their birth and upbringing will be (as we'll see that in E3, and we've already met Owen and Beru)

The only other major main characters are Han and Lando. Calrissian, you can argue, is a "b-character," but technically he's not, as he has as much screen time and lines as Leia.

But I think adding in Lando would almost be too much, as unless HE'S a Clone too, or a descendant of Captain Typho or Panaka, it's going to be too much to have Lando's family in this. (Mace is the least likely to be his dad! Mace would never tolerate a kid he fathered, even by accident, growing up to be a Rebel and a scoundrel ;) )

However, if there is more than one line of new Clones being made after Jango's are replaced, a cameo by Harrison standing next to Billy Dee Williams would give life-long Star Wars 12-back fans goosebumps! They don't have to talk.

I mean Rick McCallum and Ben Burt were in Phantom. It would be a scene just like that.

Now do you prefer Rick and Ben or Harrison and Billy?

Simple answer.

As to why I care so much about the Anakin revealed as Vader part? It's central to the plot of 4 Star Wars movies:

E3: Anakin, secretly the father of Luke, is a great Jedi Knight in the Clone Wars, but his life comes apart and he goes bad and must be killed by his former master.

E4: Luke grows up wishing he knew his dad, and when upon learning he was a great Jedi, he wants to become exactly like his father, and maybe even avenge his father's, aunt's, and uncle's deaths upon the Empire - and upon Vader personally, because Vader killed Ben.

HERE I ADMIT, IF SW IS ANAKIN'S STORY, IT'S HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT STORY A-N-A-K-I-N HAS IN ANH. IF WE GO MY ROUTE - ANAKIN'S NOT IN ANH IN ANY FORM AT ALL, BECAUSE WE THINK HE'S DEAD.

E5: Luke tragically learns that Darth Vader may BE his real father. Anakin is back, desperately pursuing a chance to have a relationship with his son, but clinging to the evil desires to control the galaxy with his boy trained as his perfect apprentice. Meanwhile, Luke discovers he was unprepared for his trial to become a Jedi.

E6: Luke will sacrafice himself to destroy the Emperor, but his nobility may be in vain, as Palpatine gains the upper hand. Anakin has a choice to make: his power or his son. Luke's gamble about his father's good heart proves true. Anakin redeems himself.

It still works. ANH is the movie that has the most difficulty being qualified to be Anakin's story if we go my route.

How important is that in the larger scheme of things? I don't know.

I've sort of thought the OT was a dual story: about Anakin's redemption, while it was also about Luke's coming of age.

James Boba Fettfield
11-15-2003, 05:46 AM
No.....just no. Han's one of a kind, not a clone.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-15-2003, 02:23 PM
I like pretty much everything George has done in the prequels, but I would hate it if Han turned out to be a clone. Just because he doesn't believe in the Force doesn't mean he's a clone. There are plenty of atheists in this world and none of them are clones.

You could be right, but I seriously hope not.

InsaneJediGirl
11-15-2003, 08:16 PM
Nope.Dont like the idea at all.

Lets entertain the idea for a moment.Why does no one else look like Han?If there are Clones,some have to be "let go".Considering the amount of Stormtroopers we should have at least saw one.

Hellboy
11-16-2003, 02:07 AM
I don't care for this idea either.

Creating the connection between Boba Fett and the clones was enough. If Han had something to do with them that would make the SW universe seem just a bit to small IMO.

Tycho
11-16-2003, 10:25 AM
That's a valid point, but I think "Star Wars" is a fairy-tale fantasy about a group of heroes and villains, written much like the Greek mythology, about a pantheon of gods, and it's more about delivering the story of each cast members' adventures, than of being truly believeable by a skeptic. The "Star Wars Universe," whether made more 'real' or less by these kinds of conicidences, exists ONLY as a background to tell this story on.

Taking it that way, if Han is a central character to the overall story, then in a fairy-tale fantasy about a pantheon of heroes, his birth origin must connect to an over-all scheme of how things are to play out, to make him fulfill his destiny.

In this case, he'd have been created to be a tool of evil, but he is a living being that chooses to go his own lone path (searching for his destiny 'solo,' independent of whatever someone (Palpatine - or an evil god in terms of mythology) had planned for his kind), and if LIFE (the Force in SW) is inherently good for the most part, and ever-expanding (why perhaps it cyclically needs to be brought back into balance), than Han is proof that the creations of life, are inherently good. Independent of the corrupted Old Republic that created him (literally), Han is too young to be influenced by the ill-intended training that would make him serve the Empire, like other Clones, and he runs away.

To continue to fit with Han's authorized EU:

The run-away Han (with no name of his own at this time of course), falls in with the kidnapper and pimp Garris Shrike, and learns a life of crime (and how to speak Shrywoook (the Wookiee language).

Seeking ORDER in his life because he was designed for it, Han runs away and BACK to the Empire, to find a better life for himself that he was designed for.

In spite of what he sought, his growing sense of morality is in full play, and when he acts as an officer to protect the slave trade and captures and throws Chewbacca into slavery, his conscious forces him to repent for his sins - he frees Chewie.

Back to a life of crime, (but with a large, furry bodyguard) Han's morality growth comes full circle, as a simple charter flight to Alderaan, brings him into a lifelong circle of friendship (and love) with the Jedi Skywalker twins.

OK guys, it does NOT give you your realistic Star Wars universe, but it concurs with the way pantheon heroes are written in mythology. Han Solo is either a main character in the SW universe, or he is not - and you can have your more real and random SW universe, as realistic as it can be, with Ewoks and Gungans and all the like.

tagmac
11-16-2003, 02:12 PM
Aside from a throwaway scene of a little kid, I don't wanna see Han in the prequels, ESPECIALLY not as a clone! Heck, you wanna connect Han and Fett, resurrect the Greedo/Anakin scene with young Boba having a skirmish with a kid and saying "I'll get you, Solo" or something like that. And Lando has NO place in Ep. III.

Tycho
11-16-2003, 03:36 PM
I had wanted to further expand my discussion with others about my theory and posted pretty much my statements in this thread over at TFN.

They closed the thread!

Citing Pablo Hildago (I think he does the DVDs or the art direction) as a source they spoke with, who's supposedly seen the whole E3 movie rough assembled now, as having said "Han Solo is not in this film."

The response I have to that is this:

1) They'd need an AMERICAN accented kid to play the 11 year old, not an Aussie extra, so they could shoot the scene in California, or get an Aussie kid to fake an American accent, or a few other possibilities.

2) Aayla Secura (Amy Allen) scenes for E2 were shot in California (I think), even though the arena battle was filmed in Australia.

3) In digital film (even with traditional film) you can clip in pick-ups at any time.

4) The Sebastian Shaw / Mark Hamill scene was done in entire secrecy (David Prowse never knew Luke had a scene with his unmasked father) - so the question remains, is Pablo Hildago doing something important enough, and is anyone there beyond George and Rick with a video camera and Harrison Ford hanging around, so important, that they'd KNOW FOR SURE IF HAN WAS IN THE FINAL FILM? - No.

5) I don't think a source high-up enough, nor a film clip complete enough, can yet answer this question with enough certainty.

Before my thread was closed on TFN, 3-4 people chimed in to agree with me, though I had a couple of nay-sayers, one with a flaming post "no way."

But there were people obviously thinking this through that added in clearly intelligent posts as to why they also thought I was right.

Somehow if everyone is saying I'm wrong, I've got to consider that this might be the greatest clue saying I am right?

Anyway, I had a nice discussion with the moderator over there, and there's no hard feelings. I just thought the incident was curious and you all might want to hear about it.

RooJay
11-17-2003, 11:45 PM
Not only is it just not gonna happen - it doesn't even make a lick of sense. So completely out of left field. Sorry, Tycho.

Although, it is kind of fun imagining all the hi-jinks that could've resulted from the Empire sending out dozens of Han Solo impersonators during the war with the rebellion. Of course, an argument could be made that Luke would know right away, but just think of how many rebel commanders could've been duped into giving up all kinds of secrets in that scenario! :D The rebellion never would've had a chance!

Tycho
11-17-2003, 11:52 PM
The Rebellion didn't trust Han until ROTJ, remember?

He was just a mercenary hired to shuttle Obi-Wan, Luke, and the droids in ANH.

In ESB, after some scouting and getting sidetracked by (falling for Leia) and some run-ins with bounty hunters, he was leaving to go pay off Jabba anyway.

Only in ROTJ, when he'd be going on a mission with other well-respected Rebel Commandos, was he trusted.

Meanwhile, Han had some key identifying scars, plus a personality that no stormtrooper could mimick, and a Wookiee that could tell the difference.

It does make perfect sense. Please re-read my other posts (with thanks) and then come back and comment again.

RooJay
11-18-2003, 12:37 AM
The Rebellion didn't trust Han until ROTJ, remember?

Nope, not at all. I've never seen anything remotely resembling any lack of trust for Han on the part of the Rebel Alliance. Not even in ANH. In fact, it seems pretty clear to me in all three films that actually do trust him. Even when simply considering the fact that not only were they willing to let him in on the locations of their secret bases, but also seemed more than comfortable with cutting him loose with that info so he can go and rejoin the criminal element he so commonly hung with prior to joining. I bet the location of Echo Base would've been worth quite a bit more to the Empire than Han's debt to Jabba.


He was just a mercenary hired to shuttle Obi-Wan, Luke, and the droids in ANH.

In ESB, after some scouting and getting sidetracked by (falling for Leia) and some run-ins with bounty hunters, he was leaving to go pay off Jabba anyway.

And yet, the rebels' commanding officer on Hoth, General Rieekan, seemed general disappointed to be losing Han.


Only in ROTJ, when he'd be going on a mission with other well-respected Rebel Commandos, was he trusted.

Rethink that just for a moment - wouldn't it make more sense to say that the Rebels obviously trusted him in advance of that most critically important mission, and that that trust is the very reason why he was given the assignment...even though he had had no other experience with the Rebel Alliance since parting ways with them on Hoth. What could there possibly have been that would've caused the Rebel Alliance to be convinced to trust him so much more during that time he spent frozen in carbonite?
Yes, he was actually placed solely in command (even over the much revered and supremely trusted Princess Leia, mind you) of those "other well-respected Rebel Commando[es]".


Meanwhile, Han had some key identifying scars, plus a personality that no stormtrooper could mimick, and a Wookiee that could tell the difference.

I'm sorry, I just fail to see an argument for the fact that someone who shares his exact DNA would be incapable of mimicking him, even if only around other Rebel Commanders who were less familiar with him.


It does make perfect sense. Please re-read my other posts (with thanks) and then come back and comment again.

I come fully informed, and no, it doesn't. Again, sorry.

Tycho
11-23-2003, 01:16 AM
NEWSFLASH: Jango Fett is dead.


200,000 troopers were ready, with 1 million more on the way.

According to the Official Star Wars database, IMPERIAL CLASS Star Destroyers carry 9,700 stormtroopers.

1 million divided up into Star Destroyer compliments (9700) = 103 Star Destroyers.


Do you think the Empire (or Old Republic through the Clone Wars) had more than 103 Star Destroyers?


They'll need new genetic material to make new Clones. There's genetic degradation with replicating a replica (in other words, cloning a Clone Trooper). Not even Boba Fett would work because he might be unaltered, but he's still a Clone!

THEY NEED A NEW SOURCE OF CLONES TO KEEP GOING, AS THE REPUBLIC IS LOSING "Star Destroyers" like the one destroyed in the Kit Fisto Episode, and I'm sure more will be lost in battles not over yet, like Muunilist.

There are thousands of systems in secession, and if Mon Calamari got like 7 cruisers, I'm sure they'll need 7,000 ships full, not just 103.

They'll need 67 million and 900,000 (67,900,000) Clones to just send 7 star destroyers to 1,000 worlds.

There are 10,000 Jedi Knights across the whole galaxy. Well, technically closer to 9,800 after Geonosis. In Master-and-Apprentice teams, that means Jedi can be dispatched (uh, with more meaning than one) to 4,900 of these worlds.

Now you get the idea that with the Clone Wars, Palpatine has created the ultimate mess!

In any case, they are never going to get 67,900,000 clones made from what's left of Jango Fett. They are 66,700,000 Clone Troopers short of their minimal, reasonable, peace keeping force.

Therefore a new type (or types) of Clones must be created. They won't be Mandalorian, or wear the Mandalorian-style Old Republic Clone Trooper armor.
They won't have Jango Fett's Concord Dawn (New Zealand) accent.

They might have Han Solo's Corellian (American) accent, and therefore, though no one believes me, no evidence from insider leaks point to this, but I think Han Solo's father was the source of much of the Stormtroopers Clones!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-25-2003, 02:38 PM
Worst. Idea. Ever.

Sorry Tycho, i think George would be loco to do this as it would be a horrible idea. I think he's done enough with connecting the PT to the OT, this would just be unnecessary. Plus, i think that you're assuming that they need Jango alive to make more clones and odds are they don't, they prolly have his DNA structure and stuff saved in some computer/machine and could just kick out clone troopers as needed.

not gonna happen.

LTBasker
11-25-2003, 03:06 PM
I highly doubt Han is a clone for one very strong reason. If a Clone of theirs went rogue, he would be a security risk. Obviously Han has been caught by the Imperials before (even he gets boarded sometimes) and no doubt they would've executed him.

Something else doesn't add up Tycho... Han was supposed to be a pilot right? But the pilots are said to not be Clones, so why would Han be a clone?

I still believe the Stormtroopers shouldn't be Clones anyways, but that's just me I guess.

Tycho
11-26-2003, 03:55 AM
Han was bred to be a stormtrooper, or a soldier, however, in the calamity of Episode 3, he got lost or ran away from following some immoral order or something, when he was only 11 years old.

But he was made to serve an evil Empire.

He was also made to serve in the capacity of a soldier.

All Han's EU then follows, about how he sought to escape his chaotic hell of an existence as a slave, and establish some order in his life - what he'd been bred for. So he returns to the Empire, and his special skills he'd developed as a Swoop Jockey, serves him well to becoming a pilot.

If the Imperials knew what he was, (a Clone), they didn't object to him returning, as he was made for that, so they figured he'd make a fine officer and be an asset to the service.

However, in a true hero-redemption-coming-of-age fashion, Han bred to serve something evil, proves that life is inherently good, because he has the conscience to rescue Chewbacca, and that gets him kicked out of the Empire and black-listed as a pilot.

Han had been an Academy hero of sorts, so they weren't going to execute him, but make a living example out of him, probably thinking he'd get himself killed anyway. He even tried, but Chewbacca came along to repay his lifedebt, and the Wookiee straightened Han out again.

As to being boarded by Imperials, etc., doesn't make a difference in light of all this, I don't think, until Han became a Rebel. At that point, once he was captured, he was tortured and carbon frozen, and sold off to Jabba the Hutt. So yeah, the Empire took their revenge out on Han after all.

scruffziller
11-26-2003, 08:20 AM
Well Harrison Ford is not on the set is he........;)

It would be cool though if he played some high ranking official in the about to be Empire of whom they use the DNA for.

JEDIpartner
11-26-2003, 03:07 PM
Rick McCallum already stated Han will not be in the film.

Tycho
11-26-2003, 03:19 PM
Could you document where Rick said that? And he's the producer, so maybe even he doesn't know what George, the Director, is intending for bit parts.

JEDIpartner
12-01-2003, 01:53 PM
I read it someplace a couple months ago. I'll start leafing through my INSIDERS first and proceed from there.

Tycho
12-01-2003, 03:17 PM
There are several ways to correlate my theory and that information (if it can be found in print).


1) Rick or whomever doesn't know what they are talking about because they don't need to know since it's an easy pick-up scene, or because their talents aren't required to work on that shot.

2) Rick or whomever is lying deliberately, to hide a small surprise for us.

3) Han doesn't yet have a name. He is TK-421 or some variation on a serial number for a Clone.

4) Han isn't in the film, but a group of young Clones are seen being "lost" somehow, before they are grownups, and before their training is complete. With a cameo (non-speaking appearance or otherwise by Harrison Ford - who will not be playing Han either (but his father), the origin of the boys will be known, so when Han does show up in E4, we'll know exactly WHAT he is).

5) in combo with reason 1, a Clone kid from a new breed is in the picture and does do something heroic that separates him from the rest, and since the pick-up shot with Harrison Ford hasn't been done yet, Rick or whomever, doesn't know that the Clone Kid was supposed to be a young Han.

This is exactly as how I forsaw his small role anyway. No where did I envision some scene where a kid announces "I'm Han Solo, I'm captain of this Clone Fighter. It's the ship that made the Cartoon Show in less than 12 minutes."

And in keeping with the EU that's been laid out, Han won't meet Chewbacca until 12 years after Episode 3! So he'll have no scenes with the Wookiee.

Another reason why insiders at LF might not know that one of the new Clones is supposed to be a young Han.

JEDIpartner
12-02-2003, 10:03 AM
Didn't get a chance to look last night. Sorry...

Well, given Harrison's apparent animosity toward anything "Star Wars" I would find it highly unlikely that he would agree to even appear in an uncredited cameo.

Something that a couple people asked me yesterday... "Why the heck does Han need to be a clone in the first place??!!!!"

So... I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Tycho
12-02-2003, 01:43 PM
He doesn't "need" to be a Clone, but as I mentioned before:


That's a valid point, but I think "Star Wars" is a fairy-tale fantasy about a group of heroes and villains, written much like the Greek mythology, about a pantheon of gods, and it's more about delivering the story of each cast members' adventures, than of being truly believeable by a skeptic. The "Star Wars Universe," whether made more 'real' or less by these kinds of conicidences, exists ONLY as a background to tell this story on.

Taking it that way, if Han is a central character to the overall story, then in a fairy-tale fantasy about a pantheon of heroes, his birth origin must connect to an over-all scheme of how things are to play out, to make him fulfill his destiny.

In this case, he'd have been created to be a tool of evil, but he is a living being that chooses to go his own lone path (searching for his destiny 'solo,' independent of whatever someone (Palpatine - or an evil god in terms of mythology) had planned for his kind), and if LIFE (the Force in SW) is inherently good for the most part, and ever-expanding (why perhaps it cyclically needs to be brought back into balance), than Han is proof that the creations of life, are inherently good. Independent of the corrupted Old Republic that created him (literally), Han is too young to be influenced by the ill-intended training that would make him serve the Empire, like other Clones, and he runs away.

To continue to fit with Han's authorized EU:

The run-away Han (with no name of his own at this time of course), falls in with the kidnapper and pimp Garris Shrike, and learns a life of crime (and how to speak Shrywoook (the Wookiee language).

Seeking ORDER in his life because he was designed for it, Han runs away and BACK to the Empire, to find a better life for himself that he was designed for.

In spite of what he sought, his growing sense of morality is in full play, and when he acts as an officer to protect the slave trade and captures and throws Chewbacca into slavery, his conscious forces him to repent for his sins - he frees Chewie.

Back to a life of crime, (but with a large, furry bodyguard) Han's morality growth comes full circle, as a simple charter flight to Alderaan, brings him into a lifelong circle of friendship (and love) with the Jedi Skywalker twins.

OK guys, it does NOT give you your realistic Star Wars universe, but it concurs with the way pantheon heroes are written in mythology. Han Solo is either a main character in the SW universe, or he is not - and you can have your more real and random SW universe, as realistic as it can be, with Ewoks and Gungans and all the like.

stillakid
12-02-2003, 08:31 PM
Not that anyone asked me ;) , but I'll toss my .02 cents in just for giggles. I'll join the pantheon that says that this doesn't make a lot of sense (not that it would stop George from doing it, mind you) and more importantly, isn't really necessary...and even more importantly, would probably be fairly detrimental to the saga as a whole (as if George hasn't done enough to it already).

It was bad enough that George pandered to the fandom surrounding Boba Fett by making Jango be a major element in the pre-history of the story (by his own admission). Certainly there is room for a certain amount of character involvement when absolutely necessary to tell the story (ie, Obi Wan, Anakin, Palpatine, Yoda, etc...). But in no way shape or form is it even remotely necessary to squeeze an appearance by Han Solo into the fabric of the tale. Just as Boba was, Han's presence and introduction into the story occurred for a specific reason, at a specific time which resulted in a wonderful story arc which was self-contained. To contaminate that, just as was done with the Fett mystique, would be a literary tragedy. I just fail to see what possible gains would be accomplished by shoehorning another character in from the original films just so that some fans can have another tender moment to reminisce. :confused:

Now this isn't to say that it couldn't happen. It's all speculation for now and George has sprung unfortunate surprises on us before, but this might be going a little too far off the Star Trek type plank even for GL. I hate the thought of a bunch of Chewy's running around Episode III (because you know he just wants to put it in because he didn't in ROTJ), so it's probably inevitable that we'll see a lil' Han pop his lil' head out of the background at some point. Will they read his id number with trumpets blaring just like the R2 intro in TPM? :D

JEDIpartner
12-03-2003, 11:56 AM
Hyperspace webmember asks...
YES or NO
Mandalorians have been talked about for ages!!Are they going to be in EP 3??And what about a young Han Solo???

Pablo Hidalgo writes...
No and no.

ph


So... there's one on-set source. :rolleyes:

As far as Artoo's introduction goes, it could have been much subtler. Although, we have to remember that we know nothing about him in TPM. Or, at least, we're not supposed to!!!

stillakid
12-03-2003, 12:46 PM
As far as Artoo's introduction goes, it could have been much subtler. Although, we have to remember that we know nothing about him in TPM. Or, at least, we're not supposed to!!!


True, except that even if this was movie numero uno, it is still highly unlikely that anybody would single out a droid for special commendation in the Star Wars universe. The ultra obvious cheese moment was included for the nostalgiac factor, no doubt about it.

Since George has repeatedly shown his willingness to pander to such things, this is the source of my hesitation toward anymore gratuitous character inclusions from the OT. I say great, as long as they play a role that absolutely couldn't be done by any other character, but to just toss them in, because, isn't good enough.

Tycho
12-03-2003, 04:44 PM
So... there's one on-set source. :rolleyes:

As far as Artoo's introduction goes, it could have been much subtler. Although, we have to remember that we know nothing about him in TPM. Or, at least, we're not supposed to!!!

Pablo Hildago is in charge of the Hyperspace Content, and maybe he's working on some set documentaries for inclusion on the E3 DVD or something.

If there was a secret scene, like the one where Sebastian Shaw filmed Vader-unmasked, there's no reason for Pablo Hildago to know about it. Even if he did, he's got a position in which he can lie and say he didn't know anything about it.

I'm not sure if he's based at Skywalker Ranch, or in Australia (but they've wrapped up shooting for now).

However, an Aussie kid would not be used for young Han-type Clones because they'd want a definite Corellian (American) accent. And the scene could be shot in Los Angeles, like Amy Allen's playing Aayla Secura, was. She was never on the set with all the other Jedi actors in the arena on Geonosis, yet in the movie, there she is.

Even less likely than the Clone Kid's appearance (to be shot in secret) would be any scene with Harrison Ford doing a cameo as Han's "father." In fact, with listening to all Ewan's bemoaning of the blue screen work, with digital cameras, all Obi-Wan's scenes with digital characters, or inserts into alien environments, could all be shot on digital camera at Ewan's house for all we know.

And as to Harrison? He's going to be meeting with Lucas a lot and working with him on Indiana 4. Going back to his roots, since Indy and SW films launched his career. So it's quite conceivable that he'd do a non-speaking or even speaking appearance in E3, as Han's father. If Han were a Clone, it'd make perfect sense to cast him. Meanwhile, Harrison would not have to sport "that Seventies Look" because he's not playing Han, and "out of coincidence" Han's father could look a lot like Indiana Jones ;) But makeup, or a wig or hairdye, can do all sorts of things.

Unless you thought Hollywood Homicide was a blockbuster (actually it pays off tolerating watching it for the first hour, when it gets fun in the 2nd hour - but I had to force myself to watch it for at least 45 minutes asking myself if I didn't have anything better to do), but Harrison might want to shine a spotlight on his famous career and capabilities by revisting two of his most famous recurring role characters. (Now he just needs to do another Tom Clancy novel-turned-film and "bring Jack back.") But while he's working with Lucas, I could see him even volunteering to give SW a big "send off," as it's the last film and he was the OT biggest living star.

I cited reasons before whey they wouldn't have to pay his typical salary, and who says Lucas can't afford to anyway?

Finally, it's not gratuitous fan pandering. As it stands with 6 movies and the facts we know about them, 2 of the OT's big 3 (Luke and Leia) have a cosmic importance to the movies now: they are Anakin and Padme's offspring, and a catalyst to help Anakin bring balance to the Force. However, those of us who grew up with Han, Luke, and Leia, attach more importance to the characters, and suggest that they are on heroic journey and coming of age in the films as well. Luke turns his father back from the Dark Side, Leia is cause for Luke to fight but also to stay true to his friends he's loyal to, and Han???

Han is some random freighter pilot who could have been any body else (Luke, Leia, and Bo Shek? Luke, Leia, and Vilmah Grahrk? Luke, Leia, and Joe Cloud Car Pilot?) who gets caught up in this whole mess when he'd rather be someplace else. He's a bit of a rogue, having been a drug smuggler and worked for a crime boss he was in debt to, and along the way, Luke helps redeem him. - Just like Qui-Gon helped redeem JarJarBinks? I think Han needs to be more important and more impressive than some fool like JarJar who wasn't even useful getting the Bongo through the planet's core, but was only a way for Qui-Gon's mercy to manifest itself. Luke nor Ben show mercy towards Han's problems. They don't care. They just want to get to Alderaan. But they needed him more than they realized, just like all prequel Jedi now need Clone Troopers with their special skills.

I think you must be blind to not see how this whole idea really fits for Han.

And, if it doesn't pan out, I think Lucas is really shallow about how introspective he gets into his own piece of work. He must see the opportunity here. Oh - and it even lends itself to fan pandering. But if I wanted that, I'd like a side story in which we learn how Lobot got his cyborg implants. Maybe he was General Grievious' son :rolleyes: We should waste a half-hour on that. How in his dying moment, Grevious is surrounded by Naboo, and he wishes that Captain Typho would care for his son Lobot, and we learn that Lando is Typho's son, so the two grow up together, etc. etc. etc. THAT's FAN PANDERING.

Han Solo is an essential character to the SW universe and the unfolding of the mythical story. I don't think we should trivialize him to JarJar's level. Because that's what the random pilot theory does.

I think without the Han's a Clone plotline, only Chewbacca's connection to the Jedi might plug in with the OT's storyline establishing the classic SW hero pantheon. That would blow up Chewie's importance well beyond JarJar's too, and add to Han's, however I don't think it's as strong of connection.

I told you before that this is a modern myth with character connections and coincidences, and predestinations (and the reverse - fighting the predestinations) and it has less to do with creating a perfectly random galaxy of various unimports that play singular roles in singular moments. That's Ric Olee, not Han Solo.

stillakid
12-03-2003, 07:26 PM
but Harrison might want to shine a spotlight on his famous career and capabilities by revisting two of his most famous recurring role characters.


...and put the nail in the coffin of his career by appearing in one of the new Star Wars films? Doubtful. He's smarter than that. ;)

Actually, one of the theories I heard regarding the absence of Kasdan for this new round was that with his own career being what it was, why put himself at risk with the Prequels? That's assuming George even considered hiring him at all. It is fact that he did consider Frank Darabont so it's possible that the possibility of Kasdan existed as well. But anyway, with as much griping as the current stars of the Star Wars galaxy are doing about these things, what would Harrison have to gain by subjecting himself to that kind of pain? :confused:

stillakid
12-03-2003, 09:38 PM
Finally, it's not gratuitous fan pandering. As it stands with 6 movies and the facts we know about them, 2 of the OT's big 3 (Luke and Leia) have a cosmic importance to the movies now: they are Anakin and Padme's offspring, and a catalyst to help Anakin bring balance to the Force. However, those of us who grew up with Han, Luke, and Leia, attach more importance to the characters, and suggest that they are on heroic journey and coming of age in the films as well. Luke turns his father back from the Dark Side, Leia is cause for Luke to fight but also to stay true to his friends he's loyal to, and Han???

Han is some random freighter pilot who could have been any body else (Luke, Leia, and Bo Shek? Luke, Leia, and Vilmah Grahrk? Luke, Leia, and Joe Cloud Car Pilot?) who gets caught up in this whole mess when he'd rather be someplace else. He's a bit of a rogue, having been a drug smuggler and worked for a crime boss he was in debt to, and along the way, Luke helps redeem him. - Just like Qui-Gon helped redeem JarJarBinks? I think Han needs to be more important and more impressive than some fool like JarJar who wasn't even useful getting the Bongo through the planet's core, but was only a way for Qui-Gon's mercy to manifest itself. Luke nor Ben show mercy towards Han's problems. They don't care. They just want to get to Alderaan. But they needed him more than they realized, just like all prequel Jedi now need Clone Troopers with their special skills.

I think you must be blind to not see how this whole idea really fits for Han.

And, if it doesn't pan out, I think Lucas is really shallow about how introspective he gets into his own piece of work. He must see the opportunity here. Oh - and it even lends itself to fan pandering. But if I wanted that, I'd like a side story in which we learn how Lobot got his cyborg implants. Maybe he was General Grievious' son :rolleyes: We should waste a half-hour on that. How in his dying moment, Grevious is surrounded by Naboo, and he wishes that Captain Typho would care for his son Lobot, and we learn that Lando is Typho's son, so the two grow up together, etc. etc. etc. THAT's FAN PANDERING.

Han Solo is an essential character to the SW universe and the unfolding of the mythical story. I don't think we should trivialize him to JarJar's level. Because that's what the random pilot theory does.

I think without the Han's a Clone plotline, only Chewbacca's connection to the Jedi might plug in with the OT's storyline establishing the classic SW hero pantheon. That would blow up Chewie's importance well beyond JarJar's too, and add to Han's, however I don't think it's as strong of connection.

I told you before that this is a modern myth with character connections and coincidences, and predestinations (and the reverse - fighting the predestinations) and it has less to do with creating a perfectly random galaxy of various unimports that play singular roles in singular moments. That's Ric Olee, not Han Solo.


But seriously, I see what you're saying here and no doubt all bets are off as to what we can expect from each new episode of the saga so your suggestion is fair game.

On the other hand, in a sense I do "trivialize" Han's role in the OT to Jar Jar's level primarily because that's what it was. Quite simply, he was nothing more than transportation for the heroes (ANH) who finds a heart at the end, then continues to be the "buddy" for the primary heroes (ESB), and gives the heroes something to do for an hour and a half (rescue him in ROTJ) until the hinted at love story can be further explored. He's a side character with a side story. That's all.

But in the same vein, everybody is a side character to the primary plot of a Republic in turmoil. There are scores of different threads of activity all revolving around this central concept. There was no reason to highlight the Vader thread so much save for the fact that it is eventually he who (more or less) puts an end to it all. George could very easily have chosen any number of derivative points of view to tell this story from, in which case the "news of Palpatine's demise" would not have been seen by the audience in such an upfront manner.

So that being the case, that the Vader plotline would be so prominent, it became necessary to move the hero (Luke) from his farmboy naivete (via Obi Wan) into the lion's den (via Han Solo) so that he could rescue the beautiful princess (Leia) from the evil dragon (Vader) so that "hearth and home" would be safe once again. It's classic timeworn storytelling wherein the hero picks up a hodgepodge group of misfit characters on his rambling journey to becoming a man. People like Obi, Han, the droids, Lando, Chewy, Boba Fett, etc are the hodgepodge group. No matter how much we might like them, shining a spotlight on them any more than necessary detracts from the primary story. As it was, "wasting" essentially half the screentime in ROTJ just for a rescue of a secondary character wasn't necessary. In the same way, further exploration of a secondary character's history takes valuable time away from the main saga.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
12-03-2003, 09:51 PM
Oh, Stilla, how you never cease to make me smile with your hatred of the PT!!! I for one am a huge fan of the PT, I don't take any offense to it, as everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but your constant digs at it just make me grin and giggle!! Not a post of yours goes by without the crack on Lucas or the PT films; Keep up the good work!! :crazed:

Sorry Tycho, i think you're grasping at straws here dude. I think maybe it would be VERY bad for everything to connect as well as you want it to. While Han being a clone might might might might might might might might might might be a possibility, it would just make every seem like too much of a coincidence and I think that things would be weird like that. I think that Ben laughs at Han when he makes that comment about nothing controlling his destiny because maybe Ben just knows better, with his wheelings and dealings in the force. we'll just hafta wait though!!

Just my opinion though; cheers!! :stupid:

stillakid
12-04-2003, 10:22 AM
Oh, Stilla, how you never cease to make me smile with your hatred of the PT!!! I for one am a huge fan of the PT, I don't take any offense to it, as everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but your constant digs at it just make me grin and giggle!! Not a post of yours goes by without the crack on Lucas or the PT films; Keep up the good work!! :crazed:

Sorry Tycho, i think you're grasping at straws here dude. I think maybe it would be VERY bad for everything to connect as well as you want it to. While Han being a clone might might might might might might might might might might be a possibility, it would just make every seem like too much of a coincidence and I think that things would be weird like that. I think that Ben laughs at Han when he makes that comment about nothing controlling his destiny because maybe Ben just knows better, with his wheelings and dealings in the force. we'll just hafta wait though!!

Just my opinion though; cheers!! :stupid:

:confused: Paragraph one appears to be a negative reaction to my evaluation of the Prequels (specifically to the posting about the Solo issue), yet paragraph two is in support of exactly what I was saying. :confused:

I'm glad that I can bring joy to your life, no matter how small, but again I stress the point that I'm not out to look for problems in the Prequels. Why would I? What is there to gain from a fan of Star Wars inventing problems to talk about? Everybody manages to ignore that fundamental question when commenting about my Prequel evaluations. I just talk about what's there (or not). No more, no less.

Hellboy
12-04-2003, 08:18 PM
...and put the nail in the coffin of his career by appearing in one of the new Star Wars films? Doubtful. He's smarter than that. ;)


Uhm.... have you bothered to watch any of his more recent films? Hollywood Homicide and K-19 Widowmaker come to mind. They haven't exactly been career enhancing material. :o :zzz:

stillakid
12-05-2003, 08:13 PM
Uhm.... have you bothered to watch any of his more recent films? Hollywood Homicide and K-19 Widowmaker come to mind. They haven't exactly been career enhancing material. :o :zzz:


That's kinda my point. Why add fuel to the fire? ;) He left the Star Wars saga on an upnote. No point in risking that reputation when it isn't necessary. This isn't to say that Episode III wouldn't be good, but if there was a doubt in his mind about it (and given the general poor reception of the previous 2), there wouldn't be any incentive for him to hop back on that train save for some begging from George or something.

r3pohh yeah
01-16-2004, 04:33 AM
TYCHO what in the world are you saying???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????/

Han solo IS NOT a clone !!! there is no evidence or even a vague , remote posibility for this dim witted conjored up "theory" to exist. sorry dude but one could say something like "I think jabba was padmes father" and it would provide no less credibility than did your banther about clone solo.