PDA

View Full Version : Why does Dooku try to kill Obi-Wan, but looks sad when Anakin goes down?



Tycho
11-27-2003, 01:42 PM
Why does Dooku try to kill Obi-Wan, but looks sad when Anakin goes down?

He has the opportunity to kill both of them then. They are helpless. But Dooku turns his lightsaber off.

It's not like he'd lose power on it if he kept it on while he walked over to where his defeated opponents lay, and finished them off.

[DSS]Pedr0
11-27-2003, 02:26 PM
Why does Dooku try to kill Obi-Wan, but looks sad when Anakin goes down?

He has the opportunity to kill both of them then. They are helpless. But Dooku turns his lightsaber off.

It's not like he'd lose power on it if he kept it on while he walked over to where his defeated opponents lay, and finished them off.
The book says he was tired from ANakin giving him such a run for his money on saber combat. Movie duel was cut shorter. Or disappointed that 2 GOOD jedi would still side with the Republic and fight him instead of "waking up" and join the CIS.

2-1B
11-27-2003, 04:33 PM
Palpatine told Dooku that Anakin was not to be killed.
That's my theory.

Beast
11-27-2003, 04:45 PM
I believe that there are a number of factors at work here. First, he was likely somewhat tired from the dual. Probably was told by Palpatine that Anakin was not to have been killed. And probably one of the biggest reasons, he probably was somewhat disapointed in the skills of the so-called 'Chosen One'. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
11-28-2003, 12:21 AM
Why does Dooku try to kill Obi-Wan, but looks sad when Anakin goes down?

He has the opportunity to kill both of them then. They are helpless. But Dooku turns his lightsaber off.

It's not like he'd lose power on it if he kept it on while he walked over to where his defeated opponents lay, and finished them off.


I didn't read it that way. Dooku isn't showing a "preference" toward Anakin in the slightest. It looks more to me as if he's just bummed out that it had to come to this fight at all, with people he probably would have liked if the circumstances were different. While he's clearly out to help Palpatine's cause (however Palp's sold it to him), the unpleasantries of taking down two capable and well-meaning compatriots wasn't high on his to-do list.

But as far as finishing someone off, he totally had Yoda when that girder thing was hovering in the air over Obi and Ani. One quick parry and Yoda is in two parts while the wounded buddies on the ground become "a lot thinner." Dooku could have taken out all three of the OT heroes in a heartbeat, yet didn't. Coincidence? Was George trying to say something? :sur:

darthzirock
11-30-2003, 01:52 PM
Why does Dooku try to kill Obi-Wan, but looks sad when Anakin goes down? He has the opportunity to kill both of them then. They are helpless. But Dooku turns his lightsaber off. It's not like he'd lose power on it if he kept it on while he walked over to where his defeated opponents lay, and finished them off.

Not even bothering with the novelization or the script, I always thought Dooku was exhausted by the duel, not saddened. Remember, Dooku is supposed to be at least in his seventies, if not the same age as Christopher Lee was when that was filmed (early 80s). Also, with Obi-Wan temporarily crippled and Anakin going into shock from the loss of his arm/force-toss combo, they were certainly not an immediate threat to him. Had Yoda not shown up when he had, he would have had lots of time to deal with Obi and Anakin after taking a short breather. As it was, Dooku tried to stave off dueling with Yoda by using Force lightning and tossing objects at him. This probably gave Dooku enough time to renew his strength to engage Yoda in the inevitable duel.


But as far as finishing someone off, he totally had Yoda when that girder thing was hovering in the air over Obi and Ani. One quick parry and Yoda is in two parts while the wounded buddies on the ground become "a lot thinner." Dooku could have taken out all three of the OT heroes in a heartbeat, yet didn't. Coincidence? Was George trying to say something?

Do you really think Yoda would have been so vulnerable to attack? Even dealing with the "girder" (the novelization says it was a crane, but I just happened to have watched AOTC again last night and to me it looked more like a power unit), I'm sure he could have defender himself from further attacks. Dooku just wanted to get away at that point, is all.

LTBasker
11-30-2003, 02:37 PM
Was George trying to say something?

Hemerroids are not something you want to deal with in a saber duel. ;)

Tycho
11-30-2003, 02:49 PM
So far, this is all speculaton. I think everyone participating in this thread already knows my theory as to why Dooku doesn't kill Anakin when he has the chance. That may be speculation, too, but it sounds equally as plausible as to what I've heard here.

stillakid
11-30-2003, 09:46 PM
Do you really think Yoda would have been so vulnerable to attack? Even dealing with the "girder" (the novelization says it was a crane, but I just happened to have watched AOTC again last night and to me it looked more like a power unit), I'm sure he could have defender himself from further attacks. Dooku just wanted to get away at that point, is all.


No, I don't think that even talented Jedi have been shown to be powerful enough to multi-task in a situation like that. The closest we've seen anyone do what you suggest is Vader in ESB when he is easily parrying Luke's amateur blows and tearing "machinery" out of the walls at the same time. Yoda was clearly putting considerable effort into keeping that "thing" in the air. Apparently size does matter, because he put that kind of concentration into the X-Wing as well. That being the case, Dooku could have easily had all three of them with a quick flip of his blade. Heck, he could have done it with some Force Lightening or even just Force Pushing Yoda **splat!** against the cave wall as well.

So why didn't he? One avenue says it's poor writing. The other says that Dooku didn't really want any of them to die. He and Palpatine may see some value in keeping one or all of them alive for the coming war. We'll find out more later.

And Tycho, you are correct that it is all speculation at this point so any suggestion is somewhat valid, but your idea relies on a fairly convoluted series of events to make it occur. But more to the point, I'm sure you've explained it before, but how do you explain the coincidence of the Queen's ship being disabled, then the heroes just coincidentally deciding to go to Tatooine to get it fixed, then coincidentally bumping into Dooku's bastard child? There are a lot of hoops to jump through. :confused: So I'm not personally convinced that it is an "equally" plausible reason behind the question at hand. Possible, well, er um, yeah. Plausible, well, maybe... I guess we'll find out in 2005. Should we start the pool now? :)

Tycho
11-30-2003, 10:09 PM
Well, there's a lot that has to be in place, but IS POSSIBLE, for Dooku to be Anakin's father.

1) Dooku met Shmi LONG AFTER Qui-Gon was a fully trained Jedi Knight on his own. If Qui-Gon was 60 in TPM, then it would have been over 30 years since he last ran around as Dooku's padawan, so Dooku could have met Shmi without Qui-Gon ever being any the wiser. If Shmi and Dooku loved each other, or formed any kind of bond, he would have told her about Qui-Gon Jinn, his "son."

This establishes why Shmi let Anakin, who'd lived with her for all his 9 years, take off with a Jedi she'd only known for 2 days. She already knew exactly who Qui-Gon was, and he was like a big (very much older) brother to Anakin, though he filled in the father-figure role actually.

2) It was the "will of the Force," or predestination, that brought the Queen's ship to Tatooine. That can't be explained other than fate or coincidence. Obi-Wan picked the planet, not Qui-Gon, and not any Sith.

3) Dooku might've known Shmi would cover for his having had a child against Jedi teachings, but to make sure things were relatively safe for his child, he taught Qui-Gon all those prophesies about the virgin birth, the Chosen One, etc. Actually, the prophesy says nothing about a virgin birth so far as we know, though it could. But in case something were to happen to Dooku in his duties as a Jedi, he would be most likely to call on Qui-Gon with either the truth, or some good excuse, to take care of the child.

4) The slavery question. If Dooku was the father, why did he leave them in slavery. Anakin said they were sold to Gardulla the Hutt. Dooku might've played a hand in influencing her to bet on the slaves in a podrace, and in this way have them end up in Watto's hands, as he might've been a preferable master to a Hutt with a pleasure den. However, Krayn, the 4-eyed off-shoot of some kind of Togorrian-related species, was the murderous pirate that captured Shmi in the first place. Was Dooku after him in some kind of Jedi action at the time? How did he come across Shmi? How did they meet? These questions might be revealed in Episode 3, and would seem to fit with the story, if it goes my route. They don't have to be answered though. However Shmi in her 30's would have to be interested in Dooku in his 60's. If he was rich or protective of her, and she was an unfortunate either because of the slavery issue, or even before that, she might be more inclined to love him. Catherine Zeta Jones is with Michael Douglas, for another example.

So these things are possible. What does it do for the story though?

It makes Dooku and Anakin both more vulnerable to Palpatine.

And ultimately, if Anakin kills Dooku before he knows the truth, but the Jedi already DID know - a reason for that midichlorian test - Anakin will want to wipe out the whole deceiving lot of the Jedi Council at the very least. He killed ALL the Tuskens when they tortured his mother. If the Jedi "made him" kill his own father, yeah, he'd be hell-bent on revenge - and he'd get even worse if they "make him" kill Padme.

The idea is how many straws will it take to make it the last straw before Anakin goes blinded by rage?

I'd say the deeper the pit Lucas digs for him, the better the story will be. Right?

stillakid
11-30-2003, 10:25 PM
2) It was the "will of the Force," or predestination, that brought the Queen's ship to Tatooine. That can't be explained other than fate or coincidence. Obi-Wan picked the planet, not Qui-Gon, and not any Sith.
I had a feeling you were going to say that. ;) Look, maybe, maybe not...only George will answer that, but my personal preferences go against "coincidence" to explain away any fairly major occurrence in a story. But Lucas's solo writing efforts have been pretty dismal, so it wouldn't be out of character for him to rely on such a weak rationale to getting his characters in the right place at the right time to kick start the storyline.



3I'd say the deeper the pit Lucas digs for him, the better the story will be. Right?
Yeeeahhhh, I suppose, but not all deep story pits are good ones. "Complex" is fine, so long as it's not convoluted. And all the events and plotpoints have to be very plausible and made crystal clear to the audience. Relying on "luck" or "coincidence" isn't going to win a writer many accolades.

One rule of thumb I read once and try to write by is that a reader will forgive you for coincidences that get your hero into trouble, but never for a coincidence that gets him out. Raiders of the Lost Ark is chock full o' examples of Indy running into problems that just happen to be there for no apparent reason. That's okay because its fun. But Indy never gets out of trouble by coincidence or luck. Okay, maybe the quick shot at the Arab with his gun could be "luck," but in every other instance, he fights his way into safety. Having the TPM heroes "coincidentally" luck into meeting Dooku's bastard child is a pretty big stretch even if it could go to filling some gaps in the plot...don't you think? :confused:

Tycho
11-30-2003, 10:39 PM
That's true. Perhaps Captain Panaka, who seems to be a close admirer of Palpatine, had something to do with choosing the ship's route. But I doubt Hugh Quarshie will return to work on a SW film. His excuse for AOTC was that the role wasn't big enough. I'd have thought George would have told him that he just needed to be there until he's important again in E3. Sort of like how Obi-Wan wasn't big in TPM, but just needed to be there for the story's sake.

But more or less, I think that evidence points to predestination, weak or something spellbinding to consider, that brings the ship to Tatooine in the first place.

I'm ok with that for now. But if there was something even further, at another deeper level, that could be cool. I do like it complicated.

stillakid
11-30-2003, 10:46 PM
I'm ok with that for now. But if there was something even further, at another deeper level, that could be cool. I do like it complicated.


As do I and most people I suspect. There's nothing worse that walking out of a movie theater with the feeling that you've been talked down to or have been patronized. But that's exactly the feeling that many people had coming out of TPM and AOTC. I've been egged frequently around these parts for suggesting that George's work just isn't as good as most people expected it to be. If George pulls some magical potion out for Episode III that ties all the seemingly loose ends and coincidences together and explains all of the seemingly bad choices he has made thus far, then I'll be his biggest fan. But that's an awful lot to do in just 2 hours. ;)