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View Full Version : Are D&D fans the most reviled of fanboys?



bigbarada
12-22-2003, 02:11 PM
Dungeons & Dragons fans get no respect, and that's a fact.

Star Wars fans, Trekkers, Trekkies, even LOTR fans seem to constantly rejoice in the idea that at least they aren't as dorky as D&D fans.

Out of every group of loser fanboys, I think sports fans are the most socially accepted.

LOTR fans seem to be considered pretty highbrow and being able to boast of fans ranging from John Lennon to George Lucas, Christopher Lee to CS Lewis does a lot to alleviate the percieved dorky-ness of the LOTR crowd.

What can be said about Star Trek fans? When NASA names the very first Space Shuttle after the Starship Enterprise it's kind of hard to not let that go to your head and develop a sort of superiority complex above other groups of fanboys.

People like Kevin Smith and TV shows like the Simpsons have done a lot to elevate the public perception of Star Wars fans out of Loserville. And now that the average SW fan has grown up and become a productive member of society, the public esteem of this group has grown immensely.

So what happened to the D&D fans? They are looked down upon by even the most dedicated of fanboys of other series and are perceived by the general public as the "lowest of the low" in terms of geekiness.

So what does everyone else think? Why are D&D fans so reviled? Is there possibly another group of fans that even D&D geeks could thumb their collective noses at and look down upon? Pokemon fans maybe?

Dr Zoltar
12-22-2003, 04:11 PM
Well, from my experiences, D&D players can be extremely fanatical. I used to play in Junior High and a bit at college and it was fun for a while. But the people I played with didn't treat it like a game. They over analyzed everything and a campaign that was supposed to take 8 hours would spread out to 40. Bickering with the DM was common place. Becoming wrapped up with every detail of what we were playing was distracting. It just became too much work and not enough play for me so I left the whole role playing world.



Now that I'm more grown up, a friend tried to get me into his campaign about a year ago. I figured new people, new DM, new version of the rules, why not? It was the same thing. Took us 1 hour to walk down a freaking hallway. Everyone again was focusing on details, battles took forever, people bickering with each other or the DM. It just wasn't fun.



I can't really put my finger on what makes a D&D fan different from other fans, but there is something. I just found the in party bickering about as annoying was my college friends who majored in debate. A degree in arguing! Go figure...

Beast
12-22-2003, 04:16 PM
Nah, I don't really think they are 'that' reviled. Hell, I still play D&D and I don't see where it's that bad. Yes, you do run into some gaming groups like Dr. Zoltar mentioned that are rules lawyers and such. But there's also the groups that are casual gamers and play because they enjoy it. And if D&D was that reviled, I doubt they would continue to crank out the PC games. The only real dark time for gamers, was when certain groups branded D&D the tool of the devil, etc. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
12-22-2003, 04:20 PM
Dungeons & Dragons fans get no respect, and that's a fact.

Star Wars fans, Trekkers, Trekkies, even LOTR fans seem to constantly rejoice in the idea that at least they aren't as dorky as D&D fans.

Out of every group of loser fanboys, I think sports fans are the most socially accepted.

LOTR fans seem to be considered pretty highbrow

Interesting topic. Though I'll have to disagree with your last statement. For the most part, I've seen "outsiders" lump LOTR "geeks" into the same pile as D&D types. Same kind of dorky dragons, wizards, and other nerdy pimply-faced High School level stuff. ;)

But that's not to say that all "sci-fi" or "fantasy" fans aren't considered nerds, geeks, or dorks on one level or another. I think your evaluation of the "tiers" was fairly accurate, although "being the best of the worst" doesn't matter much when you're trying to land the proverbial prom-queen. While we "Star Wars fans" might like to think we're somehow not as nerdy as, say, Star Trek fans, or as geeky as D&D or LOTRs fans, once you step outside the box and back into "normal" society, nobody probably gives a sh**. We're all dorks. :eek: :p :ermm:

bigbarada
12-22-2003, 04:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone who is looking down on D&D from the outside. I played the heck out of the game while I was in Korea and had a lot of fun doing it. We had only one "rules lawyer" who made the campaign more tedious than fun; but other than that I had a great time.

Maybe if the D&D film hadn't been such a steaming turd, fans of the game would actually get some respect.

bigbarada
12-22-2003, 04:27 PM
But that's not to say that all "sci-fi" or "fantasy" fans aren't considered nerds, geeks, or dorks on one level or another. I think your evaluation of the "tiers" was fairly accurate, although "being the best of the worst" doesn't matter much when you're trying to land the proverbial prom-queen. While we "Star Wars fans" might like to think we're somehow not as nerdy as, say, Star Trek fans, or as geeky as D&D or LOTRs fans, once you step outside the box and back into "normal" society, nobody probably gives a sh**. We're all dorks. :eek: :p :ermm:

You're right, it's just a shame that sports fans, who are every bit as geeky and fanatical as your average SW fan or Trekkie, are somehow seen as 'normal' and acceptable.

You'll never convince me that Fantasy Football is anything other than a sports-fan's version of D&D.

And I haven't even scratched the surface of WWE fans. :stupid:

Beast
12-22-2003, 04:33 PM
Yeah, there's something to be said about a Sports fan who'll go to a game in the dead of winter without a shirt. And painted the teams colors. How is that any less 'dorky' then dressing up as Gandalf or Darth Vader to go see Star Wars. And yet, somehow these 'Sports Nerds' aren't looked down upon nearly as much as us 'Sci-Fi/Fantasy Nerds'. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
12-22-2003, 04:51 PM
Yeah, there's something to be said about a Sports fan who'll go to a game in the dead of winter without a shirt. And painted the teams colors. How is that any less 'dorky' then dressing up as Gandalf or Darth Vader to go see Star Wars. And yet, somehow these 'Sports Nerds' aren't looked down upon nearly as much as us 'Sci-Fi/Fantasy Nerds'. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks


Because they're bigger than you and can beat you up. :dead:


But really, maybe it was my own socialization, but even as a sort of sci fi fan, I consider sports to be inherently "cooler" :cool: than any kind of sci fi stuff :eek: . Not necessarily as a conscious choice, but I've never gotten into "fantasy" things like D&D or LOTR. Just never had the interest.

But I'd wager to say that for alot of people, all it takes is one look at the way girls look at the two groups to see which one you'd rather be in. ;) Unfair categorizing? Of course! Then there is that tired old argument about whether you want a "shallow" girl who cares about that stuff with you anyway. That reminds me of a Bio on Hugh Hefner which was recanting his early days with Playboy. Apparently he had the now standard cache of beautiful women hovering around him when one of his friends or family members tried to chastise him for it. "You know, they only want you for your money, don't you?" they said. His reply: "Who cares why? They want me!" Now I didn't know him when he was a younger guy, but one look tells me that he wasn't the "jock" type. But he managed to find the key to unlock that babe-magnet...wealth! :greedy: And not only that, he did it by opening a business whose business was...hot babes! :kiss: What a genius!

I guess my point is that for 90% of the D&D types who would claim that they wouldn't want a "shallow" hot girl like that anyway, I'll show you 90% who are liars. They (we) truly enjoy that "geeky/nerdy/dorky" stuff, but also wouldn't mind a little sugar from a supermodel every now and then. :smoker: But we all know that this "geeky/nerdy/dorky" stuff ain't the ticket no matter how much we cling to that addage of "I've just gotta be me! :alien: Oh sure, there are some exceptions. There are a few "babes" out there who either join in our interests or find a way to tolerate them (thanks, honey! ;) ), but for the most part, High School is still in session and will be until we die. :ko:

Bel-Cam Jos
12-22-2003, 04:55 PM
Is this the extreme fan base? or the average fan? Because if it's the extreme ones, than ALL fans are reviled. Stupid relativism. Choose the most appropriate comment:
A) "Don't they have more important things to do than [insert hobby here]?"
B) "Grow up. I used to [insert hobby here] but I got older."
C) "I [insert hobby X here], but at least I don't [insert hobby Y here]."
D) "What a waste of money."
E) "What a waste of time."
F) Etc., etc.

But as to the question, I think that D & D had its shining moments long enough ago that the participants aren't as "famous." Star Wars geeks, in the minds of most, are only from the late '90s or so. If you say you remember the "old" Star Wars, you have to describe it ("You know, the ones with Luke. Luke Skywalker. No, that's Anakin. Luke's his son. Yeah, the movies came out before Anakin became Darth Vader. Guy in black, deep voice? Yes, he does the CNN and Verizon commercials." Etc., etc.) for them.

Electronic entertainment is hurting the non-electronic hobbies from growing as fast as before. There are devoted fans, but they aren't as visible.

jjreason
12-22-2003, 06:35 PM
I think there's an achievable "Geekdom" in every hobby. I like sports. The guys who go freeze their cojones off in Buffalo are geeks. I like Star Wars. We're geeks, each and every one of us that chooses that extra Super articulated Clonetrooper over paying the phone bill. I don't really care about Star Trek, but those guys who join the club in University that sits around and watches these shows ad nausium wearing Spock ears are geeks. People who ***** and whine about Tom Bombadil not being in Peter Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring are geeks. People who run 60 or 70 miles a week just because they've trained their bodies to do that are geeks (albeit exceedingly fit ones).

The normal person ( :rolleyes: ) would have a healthy interest in lots of things, but achieve geekdom in none. How boring. Idiosyncracies create uniqueness, and variation within our population. I think for the most part everyone has their own personal "Geek-vana" that they strive toward each day. Some people need sports stats, some action figures, some the hottest computer in the neighborhood, some the souped up 69 Vette with the chrome everything and the shift kit - and some need half orc Paladins verging on breaching level 30.

We're all the same, just focused differently.

scruffziller
12-22-2003, 06:36 PM
I have noticed though that the game rooms at the comic shops that have the elite hardcore gamers playing in them, reek the most.:p

Jargo
12-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Yes. yes. and yes.

JON9000
12-23-2003, 11:03 PM
A group of teenagers hanging around a table pretending to be powerful weird creatures? The outsider would look at this and assume the players were rather impotent in their actual lives and this obsession with a game is a way for them to escape the cold realities they have to deal with.

I don't think people who visit a theme park and get themselves inserted into their own "Star Trek" video get much more respect.

I think the D&D thing comes down to actually pretending to be someone else. Not judging here... because I wait a good long while with the ladies to tell them I am a Star Wars dork. :eek:

2-1B
12-24-2003, 02:57 AM
Sports fans cheer on real people to make real accomplishments.

Gamers, D&D or otherwise, play in a land of magical make-believe with creatures that do not exist.

So no, I don't believe for a second that sports fans are "every bit as geeky and fanatical as your average SW fan or Trekkie"

Grouping together to cheer on your favorite team of real athletes is much different than grouping together to have a circle jerk over whose dragon is bigger. :rolleyes:

stillakid
12-24-2003, 09:15 AM
Sports fans cheer on real people to make real accomplishments.


Good point!

scruffziller
12-25-2003, 05:32 PM
Yea, it is funny though how alot of the hardcore gamers act almost exactly like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. They portray that bizzare "holier than thou" attitude. "Get away from me you insolent buffoon..........":D :p

Vortex
01-02-2004, 06:39 PM
Wow, a trip down D&D lane....its been a long time since I've rolled a 20 sider and prayed a 1 wouldn't come up...

Yea, it could be lumped into the same catagory with the arm chair QB's, or the big books to sliver screen groupies, who can't remember a birthday but can rattle off everyone's stats, movie history, or tell you the history of the hobbits or dwarves or what J.R.R. liked to eat for breakfast...better yet what alien species was 6 people back from obi wan when he lopped off Walrus Man's arm and give you his name, and a bio break down as to why it was there. It just depends on what part of the D&D players specturm you look at.

I played back in 7 grade and played it up till junior year in h.s. until our DM had to give it all up since his new love (now wife) was a born again christian and seen all the dragons, magic, etc. as the sign of the devil so he just divided all the stuff up to us and we never played again. But our group was a little differnt that most. The DM was a jock, I was jock, as where 5 of the regular 10-12. We just seen it as a chance to get outta the house, order pizza, shoot the breeze and hang out and play. We loved it a various camps to kill time and an excuse to stay up 24 hours. The people that knew we played never bad mouthed us or looked down at us. We talked about it outside or at our various schools, and never got guff from anyone. We left it for friday or sat nights when it was slow or we didn't have anything going. We did try one of those comic shop D&D fests but we just weren't into that heavy or extreme. Our DM broke a lot of rules to make it fun, and let us find and make up our own specialized swords, armor, etc. to keep the game fun and a little wild.

I just think it gets a little bit of a bumb rap since the extremists wreck everything and remember all the flack the old cartoon took and how it was hauled into the media attention when some kid or kids when nuts and blamed D&D. I remember my mom yelling at about playing and getting brainwashed since some kid back in the early 90 or late 80's killing someone since he was so into D&D he killed someone and blamed his RPG buddies and their adventures. My mom was afraid that all D&D games were like that, and I think society just bought into the unfortunate hype like my mom. I would bet if some Star Wars junkie pulled a gun and shot some person and blamed Vader for turning him to the Dark Side, Star Wars junkies would be branded as bad news too and fall further down that geek ladder. Look at the Vampire or Dooms Day Kids that every once in a while get so wrapped up and obsessed that they kill a friend, drink their blood or do something stupid and just because one individual freaks out the rest of the kids get lumped together with problem kid and everyone is suspect.

I think it all depends on how extreme you area and how you look at the radicals. I shake my head at the guys that know every players batting average, average per pass or run, or the folks that get irate about things missing from a movie that was key in a book.

I guess I just don't see or hear much about D&D anymore. I don't think its viewed any differnt or that players are lower on some geek ladder than other fans. Right now sports nuts are kings, and sooner or later as will all extreme things, will fall to the way side for something new. Look back at the early 80's and how crazy men and women were for video games. I remember arcades full from open to close on weekends and how packed roller rinks and pool halls were back in the 80's...now look at how those things are viewed. You go to any bowling ally, mall, or resturant and the video games are dusty were they use to 3 people deep every one watching over a shoulder. Things cycle.

2-1B
03-16-2008, 08:10 PM
I have noticed though that the game rooms at the comic shops that have the elite hardcore gamers playing in them, reek the most.:p

I'm not gonna limit the BO to just gamers...but god damn it if every time I go to Wizard World, there aren't "pockets" of BO from time to time. The smell of sweat on some of the people there is nauseating. :dead:

TeeEye7
03-16-2008, 08:29 PM
The smell of sweat on some of the people there is nauseating. :dead:

You know Tycho's gonna chime in on this don't ya Cae? :yes:

Kidhuman
03-16-2008, 08:33 PM
Yeah, there's something to be said about a Sports fan who'll go to a game in the dead of winter without a shirt. And painted the teams colors. How is that any less 'dorky' then dressing up as Gandalf or Darth Vader to go see Star Wars. And yet, somehow these 'Sports Nerds' aren't looked down upon nearly as much as us 'Sci-Fi/Fantasy Nerds'. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Well, if you dress as Gandalf to go see SW, then there is a problem.

2-1B
03-16-2008, 09:21 PM
You know Tycho's gonna chime in on this don't ya Cae? :yes:

I actually hope he will. :thumbsup:

I'd like to know if he's experienced this as well, since he goes to conventions in Cali.

It's not just a "nerd" thing, I know that's not the case. You could say it about any large crowd because statistically there will be a certain percentage of people rockin' some seriously sweaty pits and greasy hair.

In your line of work TI, I can't imagine the level of filth you deal with sometimes. Worst of all is when there are kids who are made to live in horrible conditions. :cry:

JetsAndHeels
03-16-2008, 09:41 PM
I am an equal opportunity geek...my geekdom covers multiple areas.

I am a sports geek. I wear jerseys and other sports gear.
Every year I go to the football media events in Chapel Hill. Every year I go to Late night with Roy Williams. In 2005 I was at the Dean Dome to watch the national championship game on the screen, then I was with the huge crowd on Franklin Street for the celebration.

Every year I do the fantasy football thing. I participate in a money league, and then online leagues like the one we do here at SSG.
I go to a local sports bar and watch all the Jets games with the fan club.

On the flip side, I go to comic conventions. I go to toy/comic/sportscard shows.

I went to all the prequel releases at midnight. I did the camping out in line thing for Episode I in 1999. I met JON9000 in Raleigh to watch ROTS. I went with another group to watch AOTC at the IMAX.

I wear my Star Wars/Superman/TMNT/etc shirts. I buy the toys, comics, books, games, and other stuff. I watch cartoons.
I go on toy runs solo and with my friends.

Although it is a different type of crowd when you compare the sports fans and the sci-fi fans, one thing is for sure: there is alot of passion and dedication.

I have seen star wars tattoos. I have seen Tarheels and Jets tattoos.

To me it is the same...to society, I think the sports fans get more acceptance. I am just glad to associate with others who enjoy what I enjoy.

TeeEye7
03-16-2008, 10:20 PM
In your line of work TI, I can't imagine the level of filth you deal with sometimes. Worst of all is when there are kids who are made to live in horrible conditions. :cry:

Off topic but: Yep. This is the worst part of my job. We refer to the "parents" as sperm and egg donors; they don't deserve the title of parent. There's usually a bunch of kids involved, too. It's Lanny and Lannette breeding like crazy and too high all of the time to take care of their kids and home. When we end up taking the kids to shelter care to get them bathed, de-loused, and fed, they are terrified of us because even though mom and dad are worthless, it's all they know. It's absolutely heart-wrenching.

OK. I'm done. And I'll save you the trouble, Cae:

"Stay on topic!" :thumbsup:

:D

Jargo
03-16-2008, 11:26 PM
I look at people who dress up as characters at movie premieres as ok. it's just one day. excitement and pageant sort of stuff. whereas Cos-play is weird. prancing around on a regular basis dressed as a character and 'living' it out. something not right there.
Sure it's escapism but it's escaping a bit too far from reality and sanity for my liking.

My elder brother was hugely into D&D and wore a scarlet cloak with a custard yellow lining to biker bars and thought it was perfectly ok. He immersed himself in map making and talked like his realm was a real place. Now he obsesses about model railways and is a member of a 'railway society' if you will. his grasp on reality seems pretty shakey at best and it's all just escapism. running away from the real world because there's something lacking in his life.

I suppose it's a similar story for any fan or zealous fan. just different shades of the same colour. D&D people are ridiculed because they seem to sound the most desperate and impotent. socially disadvanted. the bullied and ugly and leftfield. If they also happen to scientific genii then what does that matter. I mean who cares about quantum mathematicians or experts in particle acceleration? As long as they aren't boring you with it and safely locked away in a dark room where they can be contained for days on end that's good right?

Mad Slanted Powers
03-16-2008, 11:45 PM
I remember arcades full from open to close on weekends and how packed roller rinks and pool halls were back in the 80's...now look at how those things are viewed. You go to any bowling ally, mall, or resturant and the video games are dusty were they use to 3 people deep every one watching over a shoulder. Things cycle.Now there is no need to go to the arcade when you can sit at home and play X-Box.

I never got a chance to get into the D&D thing. I remember a neighbor had the starter kit back when I was in 5th or 6th grade maybe. I was all excited to play it. I was reading the rules trying to figure it out. I created a character, but didn't know what to do next. I eventually realized we needed a Dungeon Master and the whole thing seemed too complicated. If I had made the effort in college, there were groups that did gaming, but I never really had time to look into it.

A few years ago, I bought the Star Wars RPG rule book and thought it would be cool if there was a group to do that with, but haven't really sought that out and don't really have time for it either. I did meet up with some people in a local sci-fi group to play a game called Settlers of Catan a few times. However, it's easier to just stay at home and play SW games on my X-Box.

El Chuxter
03-17-2008, 12:18 AM
Ha ha ha. TeeEye brought up Lanny.

CaptainSolo1138
03-17-2008, 07:55 AM
I play fantasy sports and get way into them.

I'm currently wearing a Grimlock shirt and have a Guitar Hero tattoo.

Being a geek is A-OK.:thumbsup:

El Chuxter
03-17-2008, 09:30 AM
I thought you hated Grimlock...?

CaptainSolo1138
03-17-2008, 09:50 AM
I thought you hated Grimlock...?Just when he "moderates" forums for immature homos.

Jargo
03-17-2008, 03:22 PM
*raises quizzical eyebrow a la Spock*

2-1B
03-18-2008, 03:58 AM
Please...everyone...let's get back on the topic :thumbsup: of B.O.

JON9000
03-18-2008, 10:36 AM
I think there are two general rules:

1) the more immersive and escapist the hobby, the nerdier.

2) the more esoteric the knowledge required to participate, the nerdier the pursuit. The more in depth your memorization of said esoterica, the nerdier you are within your own nerd peer group.

D&D has to be pretty bad, what with all the rule books and such, free-form escapism, and the apparent way some individuals take it incredibly seriously.

I would say Star Trek used to be worse than Star Wars, because it had so much published material (tech books and such) long before Star Wars devolved to the point in which every little creature has his own name giving the ubernerds a chance to memorize them all. Now they are fairly even.

Jargo
03-18-2008, 11:44 AM
**giggles**

bigbarada
03-18-2008, 05:17 PM
Now, I wonder about WOW (World of Warcraft) players, where do they rank (figuratively and hygienically)?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-18-2008, 06:16 PM
Now, I wonder about WOW (World of Warcraft) players, where do they rank (figuratively and hygienically)?
Those guys all suck.

Well, not really. But the game looks like it sucks and takes away the life of the player for a long time and might never give it back.

Mad Slanted Powers
03-18-2008, 06:29 PM
It least it gave us that "Leeroy Jenkins" video. It even seems to have inspired a recent Ford truck commercial.