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View Full Version : Forget Owen, Vader seems to have memory problems as well



B'Omarr Monkey
01-14-2004, 09:04 AM
There seems to be alot of wonder about Owen and C-3PO remembering each other, or C-3PO remembering Tatooine, etc. but no one seems to wonder about how Darth Vader snags Leia's ship over Tatooine and doesn't wonder what she's doing there. He was born on Tatooine. His mother died there. He's connected to this planet, but you'd never know it based on his reactions. I can't believe that Vader, who got all wistful when he sensed Obi-Wan on the Death Star, didn't sense him on the planet below, or at least wonder what brought Leia to his homeworld. Who would be there for her to deliver the Death Star plans to? If he sat down in his meditation chamber for a few minutes, he probably could have saved those poor sandtroopers some work.

Also, if those plans were so important, why did he leave Tatooine to bring Leia back to the Death Star? He could have interogated her on the Star Destroyer? If he'd still been orbiting Tatooine when the sandtroopers updated their progress with tracing the Droids to Owen and Beru, Vader's internal alarm bells would have probably gone off about a connection to himself still down on that planet which was going to prve a problem to him later.

Maybe he's just not sentimental. Maybe his injuries gave him brain damage as well as several extra inches in height.

stillakid
01-14-2004, 12:26 PM
There seems to be alot of wonder about Owen and C-3PO remembering each other, or C-3PO remembering Tatooine, etc. but no one seems to wonder about how Darth Vader snags Leia's ship over Tatooine and doesn't wonder what she's doing there. He was born on Tatooine. His mother died there. He's connected to this planet, but you'd never know it based on his reactions. I can't believe that Vader, who got all wistful when he sensed Obi-Wan on the Death Star, didn't sense him on the planet below, or at least wonder what brought Leia to his homeworld. Who would be there for her to deliver the Death Star plans to? If he sat down in his meditation chamber for a few minutes, he probably could have saved those poor sandtroopers some work.


That's a good point. One of the "rationales" offered by some people is that Obi Wan will take Luke to Tatooine at the bequest of either Padme or Anakin himself.

In the event that Anakin does not know a thing about the kids, we still know that Vader knows that Obi Wan is still alive. Chasing a rebel ship to the outskirts of the galaxy to a planet which just coincidentally happens to be the place where he A) grew up, and B) met Obi Wan, and C) houses his "relatives" should have inspired a full scale invasion.

In the event that Anakin does know about the kids, the situation is even worse. If Episode III shows us this scenario, then the ANH non-reaction on Vader's part becomes utterly ridiculous. And even worse than that, it has been suggested by some that Vader intentionally lets Obi Wan go so that he can raise Luke safely out of the way of Palpatine. If that was the case as well, then Vader would have had to DEFINITELY know where the rebel ship was headed and where his troops should look first.

It is an inexcusable lapse of continuity any way you slice it.

Lman316
01-15-2004, 12:23 PM
I'd agree that to rationalize this would be a bit of a stretch. I mean, you'd think Vader would have some sort of bigger reaction.
The only thing I can think of to counter this would be: what if Luke isn't taken to Tatooine? And, of course, I mean originally. Because obviously, he ends up there eventually.

Honestly, no one really has a confirmation on this (and if you do, this is Classic Trilogy, not Spoilers for Episode 3, so please keep it to yourself :D ) and if Luke and Obi-Wan have no connection to Tatooine at that point, Vader really wouldn't care. His life there is gone - Anakin is dead. He's a bit busy looking for stolen Death Star plans when he comes across his forgotten home world. Because (without further provocation) that's all it is. And I really don't think, even with his power, that Vader could have sensed Obi-Wan all the way down on the planet.

I don't know. Just adding the discussion.

End...

B'Omarr Monkey
01-15-2004, 09:33 PM
I've been avoiding spoilers all around, so I have no idea what the rumors about this are. But, like you I've always wondered about the dividing of the twins. I'm guessing they both start out on Alderaan, and that perhaps Obi-Wan decides it's best if they are split up. This makes the most sense to me since Luke refers to Owen and Beru as his aunt and uncle, whereas Leia refers to Bail Organa as her father. Does Padmé end up romantically involved with Bail Organa in the new movie, or does he just adopt Leia and remain unmarried? I assume that unless he's with Padmé briefly, Bail remains unmarried since Leia has no real memories of her mother, implying she died when she was very young.

stillakid
01-15-2004, 10:02 PM
I've been avoiding spoilers all around, so I have no idea what the rumors about this are. But, like you I've always wondered about the dividing of the twins. I'm guessing they both start out on Alderaan, and that perhaps Obi-Wan decides it's best if they are split up. This makes the most sense to me since Luke refers to Owen and Beru as his aunt and uncle, whereas Leia refers to Bail Organa as her father. Does Padmé end up romantically involved with Bail Organa in the new movie, or does he just adopt Leia and remain unmarried? I assume that unless he's with Padmé briefly, Bail remains unmarried since Leia has no real memories of her mother, implying she died when she was very young.


There's an interesting possibility there. Maybe the babies are taken from Padme. Then she dies. Luke is obviously taken to Tatooine. Leia goes to Alderaan to be brought up by Bail and his wife. It is that woman, Mrs. Bail, who dies when Leia is young. This is stupid I know, but it opens up the viability for Padme dying in Episode III and allowing Leia to have at least some kind of "sad" memory of a mother.

Kidhuman
01-24-2004, 03:23 AM
ANother good point to be brought up is the fact that Luke is Tatooine as well as Ben, making the disturbance in the force that much more powerful. 2 people with it on oneplanet and Vader hovering above.

Maybe the fact that Vader is so caught up in his mission to get the plans and all, he doesnt pick up the vibes thrown off by either one of em.

stillakid
01-24-2004, 12:44 PM
ANother good point to be brought up is the fact that Luke is Tatooine as well as Ben, making the disturbance in the force that much more powerful. 2 people with it on oneplanet and Vader hovering above.

Maybe the fact that Vader is so caught up in his mission to get the plans and all, he doesnt pick up the vibes thrown off by either one of em.


My own theory of this is that someone who knows how to use the Force doesn't actually throw off a "disturbance" unless he actually does something with the Force. Think of the "Force" as a tank of water that surrounds everything. But ordinary movement and such won't disturb it...only people who know how to do it will send "ripples" cascading through it. (Water doesn't work so well as an analogy, that's why this is an "energy" field) With that in mind, neither Luke nor Old Ben could or had reason to "use" the Force while Vader was in proximity to the planet. Conversely, when the Falcon was on the Death Star, Obi was probably "using" the Force in some way to confuse the "weak minded" Stormtroopers so they wouldn't find the smuggling compartments. So when he did this, he "disturbed" the calm "pond waters" of the Force which Vader was able to sense (kind of like how we don't detect radio waves but a radio can).

This also goes to explain how the Prequel people don't sense Palpatine. I don't believe that he actually uses the Force at all...ever. No use, no detection. Simple as that.

B'Omarr Monkey
01-24-2004, 09:13 PM
I was also thinking about that, the fact that over the course of 10+ years, knowing that there's another Sith running around, all these Jedi in close proximity to Palpatine haven't caught a clue as to his true identity. I guess being a politician was a good cover since they'd chalk up any sense of slimy distrust to the nature of his job.

As for Vader, notice in ANH he's pretty much just Tarkin's flunky. The other officers on the Death Star don't seem to have anything approaching the level of respect he gets in TESB. You'd think as the Emperor's right hand man, even in ANH he'd be the one lording over everyone, including Tarkin. I chalk his henchman status up to Lucas's lack of knowing if he'd ever get to make a second movie, and the fact that originally, Vader's ship was destroyed by the Millennium Falcon, but in terms of the big picture that Lucas claims he had all along, it's a little lacking in the consistency department.

Bel-Cam Jos
01-25-2004, 09:27 AM
I don't think this is a spoiler, since it's just my opinions and guesses based on no information I've heard, but I'll put space between in just in case.




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Well, we know that Vader is considered the main one who hunted down "all" the Jedi when the Emperor wanted them gone. Perhaps, the "nice Anakin" part of Vader wouldn't allow him to kill Obi-Wan, and he knew he'd hide out on Tatooine, the "furthest from" Coruscant. As long as Kenobi didn't do anything to draw attention to himself, then the Emperor wouldn't know about one being alive (yes, I know someone will say "But Obi-Wan was really famous; wouldn't Palpatine expect to have him dead especially?" ) and Vader wouldn't feel guilty. Then ol' Ben shows up, and now Vader has to finish what he supposedly already did, so he keeps his #1 status with Palpatine.

I don't know. Really, it's just 25+ years of time where a movie got so popular that we nit-pick every little detail... a continuity error says Lucas planned every scene, every word, every plot twist back in 1975-ish, for all six films. I find that hard to believe.