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Beast
01-14-2004, 05:02 PM
I decided to make this a new thread, because we actually have a piece of art that is apperantly by Ryan Church, The Production Designer for EIII. And it does indeed fit the spoilers about the re-building of Anakin that we've heard. I blew the picture up some, cause the original version that turned up is very very small. Looks kick arse, and hope that it's real. I'll update this, once I find the spoiler info I posted before that matches the picture. Take with a grain of salt as always. But it does appear to be real. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
01-14-2004, 05:43 PM
Here's the orginal spoiler material, that ties to this piece of concept art. :)

Everyone has been wondering about how and where we get to see the creation of Darth Vader. Today, I would like to shed some light on this highly awaited scene. Before that, though, a little recap for the uninitiated: By the end of the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel, Anakin has once again lost his right arm, possibly his left arm and also his right leg (his left arm is replaced by a cybernetic one too but more on that later - I just don't know whether this is cut off due to injuries or lost in battle). In any case, he is pretty badly charred; dark pieces of skin peeling off, his lips almost gone, his face scarred forever as well as a bald and singed cranium all add up to a pretty grim look all around. He is rescued by some stormtroopers and taken to a medical environment. So far, nothing new compared to other spoiler reports.

As reported by TheForce.Net LLC, there have been three separate looks designed for Anakin following the catastrophic duel and they have all been aptly described on the said site. These are for the separate stages of Anakin's recovery following the duel. When Anakin is pulled out of the lava, he is placed directly into a coffin of sorts (subtle symbolism there, guys!). He is unconscious when put inside this black box to be transferred to the nearest medical facilities.

This medical environment has a blue/white tinge to it and definitely has a "clinical" atmosphere. Anakin is taken out of the coffin (which floats in the air like Han's carbon frozen form in EMPIRE) and put into what I'm assuming is a bacta tank. As the Emperor watches intently, the Stormtroopers leave and the medical droids take over. While in the Bacta tank (again the same color from the first OT sequel, albeit a slightly darker shade), Vader/Anakin starts to recover a bit. His scars start to heal. This leads me to speculate that there may be a time lapse at the end of this flick which might cover as much as a month, but I can't really say for sure.

Anakin is taken out of the Bacta tank and is moved to another part of the medical facilities. The same blue/white hue continues here as this is just the other end of the other part of the medical facilities. The color of the actual walls, however, are the gray/dark-blue shade of the Imperial Star Destroyers and the Death Star of the OT. The clinical room is elliptical in nature with relatively low ceilings. The walls of the complex go up from the floor in a 45 degree angle at first and then they angle back inwards in the opposite direction at a slightly lower angle. The rest of the wall then extends vertically to the top. There are thick, round, industrial looking pipes attached directly onto the walls with eight or so thinner pipes (much thinner) in between the thicker ones. Very angular, very symmetrical. It looks as if the walls are lined with evenly spaced piping.

The gurney that Anakin/Vader is strapped to at this point (and given his new cybernetic implants/armor) comes directly up from and out of the floor. It is situated on a circular platform which is a couple of feet higher than the actual floor. Just to the side of this platform there are a couple of monitors and other such inexplicable gizmos. The gurney itself is a rectangular platform with either of its sides attached to two large, round axles. Its surface has a number of angled, ornamental lines on its surface. The gurney moves along the axles it is attached to. Smoke and vapor emanate from under and around this as well as from other machinery and cover certain areas of the facility.

Anakin is tended to by at least four droids during the last stage of his transformation into the Darth Vader we all know. Three of these droids look very, very similar to the FX-7 medical droid we saw on Hoth. In fact, one of them is almost a spitting image of the very same model, perhaps some earlier incarnation. Another one is slightly larger than the one we saw in ESB, with a more rounded head and a much smoother body, but it's not that different from the others. The usual assortment of arms and appendages are there, obviously, including the legs/arms that line the bottom half of the droid.

The main "surgeon droid," seemingly responsible for the operation, is a new droid to the Star Wars Universe. This droid is around 6 feet tall and has three legs. The joints of these legs are circular and hollow. The feet look like small, metallic hooves, akin to those of a sheep or a goat, but pointing inward. The Arthur C. Clarke fan in me hopes that this is a homage to Rendezvous with Rama (read it, kids; you'll like it) but I doubt it. This droid has a relatively small torso compared to its long legs. It appears to have many arms (4?). Its relatively small "biceps" end abruptly in one of those hollow joints, followed by an almost boomerang shaped arm that ends two-fingered claws. These arms are reminiscent of the front limbs of a Praying Mantis. This white/silver droid's other two(?) arms are much shorter and seem to come out of its chest. Its head is very similar to that of Rom The Spaceknight from the 1980's Marvel Comics series. It is basically a metallic head plate with a rectangular visor cut in where the eyes would be. There's a red glow that comes out from behind the rectangle. (It's probably good to note that the FX droids also have a thin, reddish band like this that's not rectangular but spans the whole length of their round heads.)

Now for the Pièce de résistance: the moment that we have all been waiting for, the "crowning" of Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith. By the time Anakin is ready to be awakened and put inside the armour, he has healed considerably though he is still scarred and relatively scary looking. He looks quite evil. He lies unconscious on the gurney, which has been raised on its axle to around 70-80 degrees or so. Over Anakin, there is a giant, circular light source which is attached to the ceiling. Three giant surgical arms are connected to this top part of the room. Anakin lies underneath; his arms are stretched open and it will remind the more symbolically minded amongst you of a crucifixion-style pose. He is shackled to the gurney at the lower forearms and lower leg areas. Both of Anakin's arms are clearly lost/amputated here although you can see the top parts of the arms jutting out. Two of the surgical arms attach new cybernetic arms to each side. Vader is almost complete now - all we need is the mask.

One of the surgical arms lowers the iconic Darth Vader mask from above. This arm has other little appendages coming out of its sides and the mask is gently disassembled and placed on Anakin's scarred head. The Emperor gives the order to "wake him up."
MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
01-14-2004, 06:25 PM
<yawn>

But thanks anyway! This is a piece of the story that definitely does not belong on screen, but if it's going to be there, it might as well be full of bright shiny objects that will make a good playset. :D


PALPATINE: Wake him up!

As hoses hiss and motors whirr, the stiff statue of darkness begins to stir into motion. One can only imagine the horror and futility felt by the dark victim who suddenly had to come to terms with the realization of being trapped inside this prison for eternity. "Who did this to him?" he must be thinking. What manner of evil would condemn a man to such a terrible fate? The fear of entrapment quickly tranforms itself into an inferno of torment which tears apart the last vestiges of humanity remaining inside the blackness. Only his heart is darker. With a rage the monster tears its new embodiment from the very machine which helped revive it...sustain it...and bring it back to life. Even the creator of this abomination has to hold his ground against the awesome power that this reviling creature exudes. With what seems like only two powerful strides, the shadow is upon the old man, his eyes giving away his fear only to those willing to pay attention. Towering over his master, the dark figure takes in its first fully automated and mechanical breath tearing apart the deafening silence. Its voice erupts inside the mask and projects itself throughout the hallowed chamber.

CREATURE: I am no longer Anakin Skywalker. I am now, (cue music Ba Bum BA!) DARTH VADER!

(audience applauds, yeah!)

Cut to scenes of evil man in black mask cutting down hapless Jedi and other assorted creatures, Wookies and other things that tie into the OT. (audience applauds, yeah!)

Beast
01-14-2004, 06:32 PM
Since George Lucas has said since even before 1999 that we'd see this, I'll defer to his judgement over yours. Why should he cheat people out of the answers, that they've been wanting since 1983 for. Return of the Jedi give us questions that we've been waiting for years to have answered. I applaud his decision, since the story is about the Life, Rise, and Fall of Anakin.

And as you yourself are fond of saying, if it doesn't happen on screen then it doesn't matter. As for the decision to show it, I'll go with Lucas on this. After all, he's the successful writer/director. And you're just someone that posts on a message board. As long as Lucas is happy with the final film, then that's all that matters. Because the artist should be seeking to please himself, even if it displeases others. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
01-14-2004, 06:49 PM
Because the artist should be seeking to please himself, even if it displeases others. :)



Ahh, yes, I agree entirely. However even some of your PT cohorts agree that George is writing these for the fans and for the kids first and foremost. That hardly means that he is doing it for himself. Trust me, there is a definitive difference when you sit down to write when you are doing it for yourself and when you are trying to second-guess what other people want to see. George himself has admitted that he is doing option two in the production of these Prequels so therefore he is no longer making movies to please himself as you would like to believe.

But as you say, these Prequels are about Anakin, however when he started in the '70s that wasn't the case. It was about a galaxywide conflict. He's altered the focus of the tale therefore throwing the original films off-kilter with what he's doing now. I'm taking purist approach to the way a 6 part saga ought to be constructed while George is fine with the idea that he can re-edit the later episodes to fall into line with his new re-imagining. That's all. The original versions of the OT will always be coveted by most fans despite Lucas's "pleasing himself" as you claim. That being the case, do we just write off the stuff that we enjoy more just because he gets his jollies off of changing things on a whim?

But whatever, like I said, since it'll probably be in there anyhow, maybe it'll make a great playset. It might even look good on sheets! Or Underoos! :D

TheDarthVader
01-14-2004, 08:03 PM
One of the basics of writing (learned in college): Who will be your audience? George has to be mindful of this but I believe at the same time he has been mindful of his "vision" for the PT. A writer can only deviate so far from his "vision" of the story...believe me I know because I have written many stories and am working on a screen play.

Thanks for the pic JJB! I am glad that we will get to see this in EPIII.

stillakid
01-14-2004, 09:19 PM
One of the basics of writing (learned in college): Who will be your audience? George has to be mindful of this but I believe at the same time he has been mindful of his "vision" for the PT. A writer can only deviate so far from his "vision" of the story...believe me I know because I have written many stories and am working on a screen play.


Congratulations and I honestly wish you luck with it. When you've completed 3 or 4 screenplays, I'd like to talk with you then and see if you have formed a different opinion about the Star Wars saga. It's easy to be a casual backseat driver and throw opinions around, but there is nothing like experience in carving out a screenplay or 3 to show you what writing a solid story is truly about.

Oh, and be sure to get the forms for copyright at http://www.copyright.gov before you send anything out and register your completed screenplay with the WGA at
http://www.wga.org/registration/register-online.html . :)

stillakid
01-14-2004, 09:21 PM
Return of the Jedi give us questions that we've been waiting for years to have answered.
What questions?



Why should he cheat people out of the answers, that they've been wanting since 1983 for.
What answers have "people" been waiting for?


And how does gratuitously showing Anakin go into the suit "answer" any kind of question? :confused:

sith_killer_99
01-14-2004, 09:21 PM
that they've been wanting since 1983 for. Return of the Jedi give us questions that we've been waiting for years to have answered.

Nah, 1980! When Darth Vader first uttered the words "I am your father!"

I too applaud GL's decision!

Beast
01-14-2004, 09:33 PM
Agreed Sith Killer. I was going to say 1980, but 1983 added to the questions. We wanted to know how this person, went from someone that Obi-Wan described to the Dark Lord of the Sith. We've been waiting for years to see the story of Anakin's life, and his fall and rebirth as 'More Machine then Man'. Now were getting it. And it's a brave choice by Lucas, since not everyone agrees with doing the full reveal. But I'm all for it. No red herrings, no misdirections, just the facts. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
01-14-2004, 09:48 PM
We wanted to know how this person, went from someone that Obi-Wan described to the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Well, I'm still waiting for them to become really good friends, but I see what you're getting at. :) I don't agree at all that the Prequels are honestly answering to these curiosities, but George is certainly giving some of his cash-paying fans what they want to see. But if he's going to continue on this road, I hope he cheeses it up for all its worth. I mean really cheesy, like Flash Gordon 1950s B-Movie cheese. He kind of started doing it with the hologram intro scene for Darth Maul (listen for the dramatic cheeseball music cue) so I hope he goes all out on this one. At least then, the Prequels all look consistent with one another as being cartoony and kid-centric. :)

Beast
01-14-2004, 09:59 PM
They're already good friends. They've been that since before the beginning of AOTC's. Just cause they don't always get along, doesn't mean they're not friends. I have friends in RL that I argue with. Doesn't mean that we're not friends. Just that we disagree from time to time. Besides, we know Ole Obi-Wan's 'Diffrent Points of View' malarky. As for 1950's B-Movie Cheese, why not. The OT is dripping with it, just as the PT is. So why not continue. As for cartoony and kid-centric, that's what some see the OT as also. So it should all fit together pretty damn well. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
01-14-2004, 10:09 PM
They're already good friends. They've been that since before the beginning of AOTC's. Just cause they don't always get along, doesn't mean they're not friends. I have friends in RL that I argue with. Doesn't mean that we're not friends. Just that we disagree from time to time. Besides, we know Ole Obi-Wan's 'Diffrent Points of View' malarky. As for 1950's B-Movie Cheese, why not. The OT is dripping with it, just as the PT is. So why not continue. As for cartoony and kid-centric, that's what some see the OT as also. So it should all fit together pretty damn well. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Well, no they're not and the OT isn't either. :) But you say tomato, I say tomahto... Either way, the PT and OT will never live together in harmony except in the glimmer of a loyalists eye. It's quite beautiful in a way. Ahhh! :cool:

But seriously, from where I sit, for comparisons sake (not literally), the "mood" of ANH and ESB, and to a slightly lesser degree for ROTJ, is comparable to something like The French Connection whereas the Prequels are on par with Home Alone. The OT at least made the attempt to be "serious" films, but the Prequels are blatant attempts at slapstick. With such a fundamental difference, the twain shall never meet unfortunately. But that has as much to do with process (ie overuse of greenscreen and animated characters) as it does with the writing. So you're right, George should cheese Episode III up. He really has no other choice. :)

Beast
01-14-2004, 10:25 PM
LOL. That's funny. The OT is nothing like the French Connection. As for being a loyalist. Funny, I think A New Hope is probably the worst movie of the bunch. So I'm hardly being a loyalist. Infact, it's the one film in the series that lately I always fall asleep during. It's just so slow and boring and there's nothing going on.

As for your opinions, that's all they are. The OT is by no means serious, they are just as humorous as the PT. And just like the PT, they have serious elements as well, intertwined in the humor. And remember time and time again, the Universe presented in ANH-ROTJ is different then the one presented in the PT for a reason. The PT is "Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire."

And finally, quit spewing this damn rehashed argument over and over again in a thread that is about the Birth of Darth Vader. Your opinions of the prequel asside, if you don't have anything to bring to the discussion that actually has to do with the topic, quit posting here. I'm sick and tired of debating with you, when you don't take things seriously anyway. End of Line.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

sith_killer_99
01-14-2004, 10:43 PM
Well, IMO the OT was definatly kid-centric. Not too many adults liked those stupid Ewoks back in the day.

However, I agree GL overdoes it with the CG stuff in the PT.

Part of the appeal of the OT was...to quote Mark Hamil "The way George could take all of this stuff and really make something out of it...He had canabalized thousands of battleship kits and glued them together...they were making passes in the parkinglot, and that's the footage you see of the Deathstar"

Also GL likes to show things "George has an extremly visual imagination". That's why he added the Wampa in the Special Edition. "There is a way to do that were you kind of cut around the monster, and some people would say that's more artistic. But in this case I really wanted to show the monster."

The comparison I like to make is that in the OT wardrobe had to get all of this Stormtrooper armor for the actors to wear. In the PT not one single piece of Clone Trooper armor was even manufactured for the movie, which means that not one single actor really ever played a Clone Trooper in armor.

The look of the two trillogies are radically different, OT being more convincing realistically.

As for Anakin and Obi-Wans friendship, I prefer to refer back to the novels for that aspect. They really do a much better jobs of conveying the relationship, for me anyway. Maybe it's because I don't really care for Haydens performance. He didn't exactly nail it when he said Obi-Wan was like a father to him as they entered the bar. Whereas Harrison (being the great actor he is) was able to generate a convincing on screen relationship between he and Luke just by calling him kid. They fought all through ANH, but I always felt like Han really cared about him.

Maybe it's not a fair comparison, afterall Harrison Ford is one of the greatest actors in Hollywood for a reason. And, Hayden seems doomed to the Mark Hamil life. LOL

Um, I had a point...really, but it's late and now I'm just rambling....

Goodnight!

CropDuster
01-14-2004, 10:53 PM
And remember time and time again, the Universe presented in ANH-ROTJ is different then the one presented in the PT for a reason. The PT is "Before the Dark Times, Before the Empire."
... Before George changed his vision for the saga.

I think the vader seen sounds kinda cool! :cool:

JJB, you are way off with your OT vs PT opinions. SW fans wanted the more of the OT and were hopeful for the PT. However the prequels were not as good. They are enjoyable for fans because they are somewhat reminiscent of the originals, not because they thought meesajarjar was cute or because they were particularly fond of fart jokes.
You are really just trying to convince yourself when you claim they are right in line with the originals.

Beast
01-14-2004, 11:08 PM
Going to disagree. Cause I don't see a change in vision at all. He already had some idea with wear to take the prequels from the very beginning. And please, don't tell me that I'm trying to convince myself of anything. I prefer the prequels, and see how they fit in with the OT perfectly. So I am not off in my opinions, you can't be off in opinions. That's why they are called opinions. The prequels are as good, or not better then the majority of the OT. Especially ANH, which is really a terrible film when veiwed alongside the rest of the Saga. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

sith_killer_99
01-15-2004, 06:14 AM
The prequels are as good, or not better then the majority of the OT.

The exception of course being Hayden's performance. LOL

Pendo
01-15-2004, 07:22 AM
I don't like the image. Mainly because Vader doesn't have his mask on. I know I'm always repeating myself saying I don't want to see that Anakin is Darth Vader, but if George does this I would be so p***ed off! Looking like Episode III will be the worst of the Star Wars movies :mad:! Hopefully the picture is a fake.

PENDO!

bobafrett
01-15-2004, 08:09 AM
I don't like the image. Mainly because Vader doesn't have his mask on. I know I'm always repeating myself saying I don't want to see that Anakin is Darth Vader, but if George does this I would be so p***ed off! Looking like Episode III will be the worst of the Star Wars movies :mad:! Hopefully the picture is a fake.

PENDO!

What of the unmasking of Vader at the end of EPVI? We already know that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. I really want to see this made into a scene in EP III! I shouldn't even be here, as I don't want to know what might happen, but curiosty got the better of me.

[DSS]Pedr0
01-15-2004, 08:28 AM
Very cool concept drawing.

Tycho
01-16-2004, 01:30 PM
I'm with Stillakid and Pendo.

Make a 12-hour Masterpiece and don't give away the climatic moment in the 10th hour by explaining it in the 6th hour.

Hour 1: Darth Sidious (the Dark Lord of the Sith) is playing Trade Federation cronies to cause a crisis that results in Palpatine being elected to power. Subtle clues show that something dirty in the Senate is going on.

Hour 2: While trying to save Naboo, the Queen's Jedi protector (Qui-Gon) discovers a boy of possible prophesy for the Jedi (Anakin), who could end up confronting the Sith, but definitely ends up saving their entire planet. Before leaving his homeworld, Anakin vows to free his mother from slavery. Fate brings him to train at too old of age, with too young and inexperienced of Master (Obi-Wan).

Hour 3: Firmly seated in power, Palpatine plots to create a situation that will grant him emergency powers, or dictatorship. Using the Separatist threat and an alliance with Count Dooku, he's created the need for a Republic Army, while Clones are secretly being created to fill that need preemptively - presumably on orders by a Jedi. But the pacifist Senator from the Chancellor's homeworld must be eliminated to break a voting stalemate in the Senate. Her assasination is attempted.

Hour 4: The Chosen One is assigned to be a body guard to the Senator, but inevitably pursues his forbidden love interest in her, while Obi-Wan discovers the Clone Army and tracks its founder, Jango Fett, to Geonosis, the Separatist military production headquarters. He's captured, while Anakin rushes to rescue his mother he'd vowed to save, only to have her die. The tragedy pushes him to seek vengeance. Meanwhile, Palpatine uses Kenobi's report about the Separatist Army to win emergency powers and authorizes the Jedi to command a Clone Army to take over Geonosis. The first shots of the Clone Wars are fired, and it is revealed that at the Separatists' secret base, the designs for a Death Star are being finalized.

Hour 5: The Clone Wars end and an Empire is born. Dooku is killed, and perhaps linking his involvement and his being a former Jedi, a reason is sold for the remaining Jedi to be eliminated for good.The war and personal matters have pushed Anakin Skywalker to far over the edge, and something terrible is the final straw that pushes him to act in rage and turn against the Jedi.


Hour 6: Obi-Wan is determined to stop Anakin, with his most important ally being the pregnant wife of his former apprentice. In a Romeo-and-Juliette style tragedy, it appears that both Padme and Anakin (Across the Stars, Star-crossed Lovers...) are killed. A son, Luke, survives. The Jedi are all destroyed or driven into exile, Obi-Wan escaping with Luke. Vader begins his rise to power and the Dark Times occur. Weapons of terror will be built, and symbolize the Emperor's new power.


Hour 7: The rebel Princess has stolen designs for the Death Star but is being pursued by Darth Vader. In a last ditch attempt, she tries to sneak the plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi as she is captured. The droids get sidetracked on their journey to find the Jedi Master, and fate leads them to meet Luke Skywalker.

Hour 8: Luke is catapulted into the thick of things to train as a Jedi with Obi-Wan Kenobi, who he witnesses lose a fight with Darth Vader, convincing Luke to join the Rebellion and resulting in his destroying the Death Star with the help of Han Solo.

Hour 9: Darth Vader has learned that the Son of Skywalker has destroyed the Emperor's Death Star, and is pursuing him relentlessly across the galaxy. While Luke nearly dies trying to survive in the frozen wastes the Rebels are forced to hide in, he is assigned to train with the ancient Jedi Master Yoda on the planet Dagobah. Luke departs there after the Rebels suffer a devastating loss in a terrible ground battle on the ice planet.

Hour 10: While Yoda is training Luke to become a Jedi, Vader plots to lure him to the Dark Side by capturing Han Solo and Princess Leia and torturing them to force Luke's hand to attempt coming to rescue them at Cloud City. There, Han is frozen and taken away by Boba Fett, while Luke struggles to save the remainder of his friends while he still can. But it is a trap and in a terrible confrontation with Darth Vader, it is suddenly revealed that Vader's true identity is none other than Anakin Skywalker - Luke's father! Luke nearly gives up but is ironically rescued by Leia who he'd went to save in the first place. They escape, but they still have to rescue Han. The Emperor has been aware of everything up to this point, and has ordered Vader to eliminate Skywalker as a threat to the them.

Hour 11: Luke's on his way to becoming a full Jedi Knight when he uses his growing abilities to rescue Han from Boba Fett and Jabba. He is startled to discover the truth that he is Darth Vader's son, when he returns for more instruction by Yoda. Fate ends with him being the last of the Jedi, who's Order's last parting secret they leave with him, is that he has a twin sister, and the Jedi might continue. Now he must confront Darth Vader and face his father again!

Hour 12: The Rebels plan a desperate attack to prevent the construction of another Death Star and get a rare opportune moment to target the Emperor for extermination. Luke Skywalker agrees to join Han Solo who will lead this mission on the ground, but the young Jedi's mission changes as he realizes it is now time for him to confront his father again. Vader seems like he will never be swayed from the Dark Side as the Emperor uses a fully operational Death Star to begin obliterating the entire Rebellion. But Luke's failure to correctly estimate the powers of the Emperor can not be his undoing, and Vader is forced to eliminate the Emperor, thus "Anakin" has fulfilled his destiny after all, and evil is purged from the galaxy.

Beast
01-16-2004, 01:50 PM
No thanks Tycho. Red herrings and misdirections would make it a terrible movie. The movies have from Lucas' standpoint, been about Anakin Skywalker and his family in the context of Intergalactic Civil War. And to cheat the viewer, and Lucas' vision by trying to preserve a secret that wouldn't have been one to the audience if the movies were shot in order, is silly. We're going to have to face facts, we're going to see this scene in the movie. And Empire's reveal is now about Luke learning the truth. Not the audience. It has been since after ESB came out, and the initial shock of the reveal wore off. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

TheDarthVader
01-16-2004, 01:50 PM
Thank you stillakid for those links and the encouragement. :) Writing this screenplay is going to be a tidious process.

Some users know that I like the PT and see nothing gigantically wrong with these movies (like others on this forum do). I can not say I prefer the PT over the OT but I can not say that I prefer the OT over the PT. Overall though I believe I like the PT better. I miss Darth Vader in the PT (of course look at my user name) but seeing the beginning of the saga is awesome! That is my opinion so please do not quote me and argue with me because I did some of that already in the Owen not recognizing C3PO thread. Thanks!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
01-16-2004, 02:48 PM
Hey, woah, surprise surprise, another Episode III thread that turned into a Stilla Kid PT bash fest and a Jar Jar on the defense. You guys are getting too predictable! :D

I agree here with the idea that this is going to be a really awesome sight to behold. Personally, i doubt the drawings give the scene justice; its' going to be a very powerful scene indeed. I don't think the fact that we as an audience know is going to deter any emotion from when Luke finds out that Vader is his father in ESB. It's a big scene for Luke, but it's also a great scene for the audience as we come to see his reaction/torment when he realizes his father is a murderer. I'm not sure, but i assume that this sort of transformation happens towards the end of the movie? If so, if you don't wanna see it, get your can off the chair and go buy a pop or something; nobody is holding your hand making you sit down and watch these films or anything, so don't complain about not wanting to see certain scenes; simply, don't watch it. The OT will never be the PT and the PT will never be the OT; the sooner we all realize this, the better. :D

2-1B
01-18-2004, 10:00 PM
And, Hayden seems doomed to the Mark Hamil life. LOL


How so ?

Since filming AOTC, Hayden has done Life as a House which garnered a Golden Globe nomination and Shattered Glass was just released which has received much critical acclaim. I can't comment on that myself as I've not yet seen it.

Still, there's nothing on Hayden's plate in the forseeable future which comes remotely close to "films" like Corvette Summer, The Guyver, Slipstream, Watchers Reborn, etc.

Unless you meant that Hayden was going to move on to a career of cartoon and video game voiceovers mixed with broadway stints during which he acts like an arrogant ****, refusing to sign Star Wars related items, then I don't see the comparison.

darthzirock
01-22-2004, 01:03 AM
One question: WHERE THE HECK IS THE IMAGE???

I've been through all 3 pages of this thread 3 times now, and there's NO IMAGE! :frus:

Beast
01-22-2004, 01:21 AM
Freaky. Some how the pictures have been removed. But they're still in my attachments list. May have been part of that massive forum error that blew up a few threads and caused some issues. Here they are. :)

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7335
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7336

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

arctangent
01-22-2004, 06:29 AM
as i understood it, these films are about anakin skywalker, his fall to the dark side fo the force and his final redemption. therefore i can see no reason not to show what is left of anakin after being cooked in the volcano (or whatever it is he falls into) being turned into darth vader. it beats me why anyone would be disappointed or angry that this scene is in the film, seeing as it is a fairly major point in the story as a whole. personally, i am looking forward to the 'creation' of vader.

as for the side issue of the ot vs the pt, from what i remember when going to see a new hope when it was first released, each time i went to the cinema it was filled with kids. therefore i have always assumed that the original trilogy was aimed primarily at kids. george lucas was trying to recreate the type of saturday morning b movie that he was so fond of seeing when he was a kid for a new generation of kids.

jad
01-27-2004, 12:19 PM
Congratulations and I honestly wish you luck with it. When you've completed 3 or 4 screenplays, I'd like to talk with you then and see if you have formed a different opinion about the Star Wars saga. It's easy to be a casual backseat driver and throw opinions around, but there is nothing like experience in carving out a screenplay or 3 to show you what writing a solid story is truly about.

Ah ha!

I'm not to familiar with everyone on these boards, so I was trying to read through all of stillakid's post. Trying to figure out exactly what his problem with the PT and GL was and this post just threw him in with a huge category of PT hater crowd i'm all to familiar with in the forum territory.

It always seems that the ones that really are nitpicky and attack GL's writing decisions are the people who are film students or writers, ect... They always say somthing like "GL should know this, blah blah blah, it's doesn't go with the basic rules of filmmaking, writing, ect.. blah blah blah." It's just such a tired argument.

Anyway this is gonna come out like a personal attack at you Stillakid, but i've just read to much of it lately, and I feel I must voice my opinion. You shouldn't have a problem with that since you seem you voice you'res pretty loudly.

Picking apart GL's writing and film making like you're some sort of college professor grading a students work just comes of as self serving. Just seems like you're trying to flaunt your knowledge of the field, as if you know better. I'm not trying to say GL is perfect and that you have to be as rich and successful as him to know better or equal to his experience in films and writing. But until you've actually written or directed a succesful film, the argument is just tired and you really don't have any room to talk. All you're doing is categorizing your self with all the other fans who think they know better.

So thats just my two cents, not trying to **** anyone off. Just wanted to throw my opinion in.

Beast
07-27-2004, 09:45 AM
Here's a couple tasty pictures from the 'Birth of Darth Vader' scene. You can see ole Vader shackled to the platform he's on. I wonder if force lightning will be used to revive him, ala Frankenstein. ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
07-27-2004, 10:19 AM
It always seems that the ones that really are nitpicky and attack GL's writing decisions are the people who are film students or writers, ect... They always say somthing like "GL should know this, blah blah blah, it's doesn't go with the basic rules of filmmaking, writing, ect.. blah blah blah." It's just such a tired argument.

Hmm, I missed this somehow. So if Jad is still around, I guess I'll throw this back at him...

Would you say the same thing to a doctor. "Um, hey, I know that I don't do this and all, but it seems like you left a scalpel inside my body cavity, but I wanted to let you know that it's okay, because, hey, this surgery was your thing and far be it from me to question, because, you know, I don't do this."

:rolleyes:

Point is, I wouldn't question the way you do your job because I don't do it and haven't taken the time to learn that craft (whatever it is). So the day you walk in GL's proverbial shoes by writing, producing, shooting, and directing on your own (of which I've done all), then we'll talk about your .02 cents.

bigbarada
07-27-2004, 11:44 AM
Hmm, I missed this somehow. So if Jad is still around, I guess I'll throw this back at him...

Would you say the same thing to a doctor. "Um, hey, I know that I don't do this and all, but it seems like you left a scalpel inside my body cavity, but I wanted to let you know that it's okay, because, hey, this surgery was your thing and far be it from me to question, because, you know, I don't do this."

:rolleyes:

Point is, I wouldn't question the way you do your job because I don't do it and haven't taken the time to learn that craft (whatever it is). So the day you walk in GL's proverbial shoes by writing, producing, shooting, and directing on your own (of which I've done all), then we'll talk about your .02 cents.

I actually agree, it wasn't until I started studying and creating my own CG animation that I started to see the flaws and shortcuts of what passes for "cutting-edge" special effects these days.

So anyone involved in the making of films or TV shows would have a special insight that others would not. However, people in "the industry" also tend to be more jaded and harder to please when it comes to any film.

Stillakid, since you have experience with writing and directing, what would you have done if it was 1973 and a young George Lucas, hot off of his success with American Graffiti, presented you with a draft of something called "The Star Wars?" Keeping in mind that almost every major studio turned it down as incomprehensible and unfilmable.

Darkness Shroud
07-27-2004, 12:29 PM
Nice pics JJB. Thanks!:)

Tycho
07-27-2004, 12:51 PM
Shackled to a chair? Birth of Frankenstein's monster?

All this proves is that Hayden was in the costume and wanted to or had to sit down.

Darth Vader could be on a toilet for all we know right now.

"You don't know the power of a mercy flush. I must have the Sports Page."

stillakid
07-27-2004, 01:14 PM
Stillakid, since you have experience with writing and directing, what would you have done if it was 1973 and a young George Lucas, hot off of his success with American Graffiti, presented you with a draft of something called "The Star Wars?" Keeping in mind that almost every major studio turned it down as incomprehensible and unfilmable.

I would have done the same. The version I read (pre approval, pre Huyck/Katz rewrite) is nearly incomprehensible. Absolutely, there was the germ of an idea there, but it wasn't on the page at all. Interestingly enough, those early versions of The Star Wars are not so unlike The Phantom Menace in the way it wanders and tossed elements into the mix blantantly and without any attempt to make a cohesive story. He's just a sloppy writer. Great visionary, sloppy writer.

Beast
07-27-2004, 01:32 PM
Shackled to a chair? Birth of Frankenstein's monster?

All this proves is that Hayden was in the costume and wanted to or had to sit down.

Darth Vader could be on a toilet for all we know right now.

"You don't know the power of a mercy flush. I must have the Sports Page."
Tycho, are you somewhat blind? Or have you not been following the spoilers that have been released, both on the official site and through other means. These two pictures are from the Darth Vader documentary on the Star Wars Trilogy boxset. And you can see the shackle on Vader's right wrist in both shots. He's on the restraint 'table' that he wakes up on, after Sidious has his medical droids give him his new limbs and costume. The table has just been raised to a vertical position. The hood in the shot is Sidious, informing him of what has occured, and telling him that Padme died. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
07-27-2004, 01:48 PM
I would have done the same. The version I read (pre approval, pre Huyck/Katz rewrite) is nearly incomprehensible. Absolutely, there was the germ of an idea there, but it wasn't on the page at all. Interestingly enough, those early versions of The Star Wars are not so unlike The Phantom Menace in the way it wanders and tossed elements into the mix blantantly and without any attempt to make a cohesive story. He's just a sloppy writer. Great visionary, sloppy writer.

It's kind of funny, but when I read the Annotated Screenplays for the OT, my expectations for the prequels dropped through the floor. George Lucas seems to just get a flood of ideas and he just writes them all down with little concern for a cohesive storyline. Like you said, the original draft of ANH is pretty bad and unfocused. Same with the original draft of ESB, which included three other planets, a duel between Yoda and Obi-Wan's ghost a Wampa attack on the Rebel base and a showdown between Fett and IG-88. Fortunately he had Irving Kerschner and Lawrence Kasdan to streamline the entire plot into the film we see today.

Lucas is great at coming up with ideas, but he isn't so great at writing or directing. He needs strict, rigid controls to keep his ideas in check. He hasn't had that with the prequels which is why they seem so unfocused.

stillakid
07-27-2004, 11:30 PM
It's kind of funny, but when I read the Annotated Screenplays for the OT, my expectations for the prequels dropped through the floor. George Lucas seems to just get a flood of ideas and he just writes them all down with little concern for a cohesive storyline. Like you said, the original draft of ANH is pretty bad and unfocused. Same with the original draft of ESB, which included three other planets, a duel between Yoda and Obi-Wan's ghost a Wampa attack on the Rebel base and a showdown between Fett and IG-88. Fortunately he had Irving Kerschner and Lawrence Kasdan to streamline the entire plot into the film we see today.

Lucas is great at coming up with ideas, but he isn't so great at writing or directing. He needs strict, rigid controls to keep his ideas in check. He hasn't had that with the prequels which is why they seem so unfocused.
JJB, I kindly ask that you read and respond to this post. Thank you. :)

Bosskman
07-28-2004, 05:15 AM
Oh yeah, Lucas is a "great visionary", he's so great. Give me a break.


Hey Binks, it's about time you posted those freakin pics. If I had to read through another line about all this "cohesive story" crap I'd crap myself.

MERGE THIS THREAD WITH MINE MODS! MERGE IT!

stillakid
07-28-2004, 05:02 PM
Oh yeah, Lucas is a "great visionary", he's so great. Give me a break.
:confused: Are you disagreeing? Agreeing? Huh? :confused: What does God have to say about Lucas? Visionary? No?