PDA

View Full Version : Do you think Lando really sold out Han?



scruffziller
01-23-2004, 12:07 PM
I used to not think so. But in the beggining Lando was mainly looking out for himself. As Vader kept pushing and altering the deal, he got fed up. When Vader decided to take Chewie and Leia he said to himself "forget this, this ain't worth it" and changed his mind. But at the start, do you think Lando actually had "no choice". Or do you think he could have successfully taken Vader out somehow but was too afraid?

Pendo
01-23-2004, 05:19 PM
I think Lando had no choice. If I were him, I wouldn't like to argue with Vader!

I think Lando's always been loyal to Han, and that's why he was so pee'd off when Vader refused to allow Leia and Chewie to stay on Cloud City. Lando wanted to do anything he could to help them, and he first though by keeping Leia and Chewie safe on Cloud City that he would be helping them, and in a way staying loyal to Han.

When Leia and Chewie were being taken to Vader's shuttle, Lando realised that he could no longer keep them safe, and his last bit of loyalty was gone, so he ordered his men to do what he was originaly too scared to do.

Lando knew that if he he refused to cooperate with Vader, Vader would just wait for the Millennium Falcon to land and blow Cloud City out of the sky!

PENDO!

JediTricks
01-23-2004, 09:01 PM
Yeah, Lando sold our heroes out. He thought he could make a deal with Vader that would benefit him and his city, and all it took was him helping sell the rebels out. I will agree that it's a gray area, Lando was probably watching out for his city, but he was a willing and key participant in Vader's trap, and he got burned for it. The problem is, you can't really play both sides against the middle like that and expect to get away scott free - especially with the Empire, eventually they always exact some revenge.

jjreason
01-23-2004, 09:56 PM
Knowing Lando the way we do, I'd wager this was close to his thought process:

"Deal's too good to pass up, I gotta look after my own interests here. Haven't heard from Solo in awhile, not exactly sure how he even figures into this thing. And I don't even know this Skywalker, never heard of him. What's the worst that could happen? Han and I go way back. We've always figured a way out of these things before. He'll understand."

You know you have achieved the geek's version of Nirvana when you believe yourself capable of rationalizing on behalf of a character in your favourite movie. :)

Kidhuman
01-24-2004, 03:18 AM
Ok, I think Lando had no choice. He got what he wanted by getting "custody" of Leia and Chewie. He knew where Han would be brought to. I think his plan was to sell out Han, save the city, get the custody, then go after Han. But when Vader altered the deal, he had to take action. I think either way, there would have been a rescue on Han

dr_evazan22
01-24-2004, 08:28 AM
It seems like you guys don't think too much of Lando. One day out of the blue DV (someone who helps run the LEGAL government of the galaxy) shows up and says something like "Han is on his way here. We want to keep him here to lure one of his Rebel friends" He wasn't ASKED to help capture any of our Rebel friends. He was told to help (or else). Plus, you see in the movie how DV "alters" the plan, which never included turning Han over to Fett. And we all know how it continued to get worse from here.

I think the only choice he had was help the Empire or die.

stillakid
01-24-2004, 12:35 PM
Yeah, Lando sold our heroes out. He thought he could make a deal with Vader that would benefit him and his city, and all it took was him helping sell the rebels out. I will agree that it's a gray area, Lando was probably watching out for his city, but he was a willing and key participant in Vader's trap, and he got burned for it. The problem is, you can't really play both sides against the middle like that and expect to get away scott free - especially with the Empire, eventually they always exact some revenge.


Exactly correct. 100%. There isn't even that much of a gray area involved. Han's dialogue sets the character up for the audience before we even get there:

"He's a ssscard player, gambler, scoundrel...." That's all the audience needs to know to make the later betrayal believable. We know going in that the guy has a sordid past so it isn't out of the question for him to "make a deal" that will benefit him in the end even if it means selling an old acquaintance down the river. Toss in the fact that he would have been forced to participate anyway by the ruthless Empire and Han was toast no matter what. Lando would have no reason or need to "rescue" the guy as long as the Empire left Cloud City alone. They weren't childhood friends or anything. Just two guys trying to make their way in the Universe.

Kidhuman
01-24-2004, 04:57 PM
Maybe Lando just plain old p****d off that Han won the Falcon.

scruffziller
01-25-2004, 09:32 AM
Exactly correct. 100%. There isn't even that much of a gray area involved. Han's dialogue sets the character up for the audience before we even get there:

"He's a ssscard player, gambler, scoundrel...." That's all the audience needs to know to make the later betrayal believable.Right. Because Han even confirmed he didn't really trust him. So there was always that possibility. Their options were limited as where to go, he took a chance on Lando and it turned sour.


Ok, I think Lando had no choice. He got what he wanted by getting "custody" of Leia and Chewie. He knew where Han would be brought to. I think his plan was to sell out Han, save the city, get the custody, then go after Han. But when Vader altered the deal, he had to take action. I think either way, there would have been a rescue on Han
That is what I used to think; that he had a grand scheme and whatnot in the begging and that it would all play out. He might have had a little hoping it would worked out not so bad with the initial agreement and not be a problem but mutated into something much worse in which he recovered himself in the end. Even though in his heart he didn't want to sell out Han, he did it nonetheless. He could have flown a cloud car right into that dining room and taken out Vader. Unless DV's darkside spidey sense was on.:D

Kidhuman
01-26-2004, 03:44 AM
He went into the cell where Han was and tried to tell him somehting. I am not sure exactly because Han punched him. If he had sold him out, he wouldnt of went in there, he would of let him rot. Why would he care what Han thought of him at that point. He felt bad and had no chouice in the matter. Either sell out your friend or die by force choke. He did well though to keep his thoughts hidden from Vader.

JediTricks
01-26-2004, 06:45 PM
I think Lando went into that cell to allay his own personal feelings of guilt over selling his friends out, he wanted them to understand and forgive him, maybe even commiserate or pity him a little - which would reflect on the theory that Lando is generally selfish in these matters up until the point when he realizes just how much damage is being done that he's been facilitating. Once Lando sees just how bad things have gotten, he stands up to the Imperial forces and sends the city scampering, but before that, he's complicit in all the misdeeds being done, and is selfish enough that he refuses to see the other alternatives to simply giving in to what the Empire is demanding. Lando says "I had no choice" at first, but later we see he does have a choice and eventually makes the right one only after watching his buddy get flash frozen and experiencing how Vader doesn't feel obligated to stick to his deals.

scruffziller
01-27-2004, 03:34 AM
I think Lando went into that cell to allay his own personal feelings of guilt over selling his friends out, he wanted them to understand and forgive him, maybe even commiserate or pity him a little - which would reflect on the theory that Lando is generally selfish in these matters up until the point when he realizes just how much damage is being done that he's been facilitating. Once Lando sees just how bad things have gotten, he stands up to the Imperial forces and sends the city scampering, but before that, he's complicit in all the misdeeds being done, and is selfish enough that he refuses to see the other alternatives to simply giving in to what the Empire is demanding. Lando says "I had no choice" at first, but later we see he does have a choice and eventually makes the right one only after watching his buddy get flash frozen and experiencing how Vader doesn't feel obligated to stick to his deals.
Ditto!!!:) You couldn't have said it better JT.

aceguide
01-30-2004, 08:43 AM
Lando had no choice.

Even when he did take action he barely gets away.

Just imagine if DV walked into your home and started making demands. You think you're a tough guy and the next think you know your dog is being force choaked from across the room. Not to mention that he arrived with a few hundred dudes dressed in white plastic with guns.

I do believe that Lando - as a gambler - thought he had an edge. Once he realised there was no out within the deal he took action.

El Chuxter
09-18-2009, 02:41 PM
I can't believe I missed this thread, or that this was never brought up before.

For some reason, Lando had reason to be TICKED at Han. Keep in mind that the Falcon lands under what is basically police escort, and they don't hesitate to fire at them. "That's been a long time; I'm sure he's forgotten about that," says Han. When they land, Lando pretends to be mad enough to fight at first (so overdramatically it's pretty obvious he's faking), and Han warns Chewie to keep his eyes open. The most logical explanation from what we actually get in the movie is that Lando lost the Falcon, and was not at all happy about it, and the two friends parted under bad circumstances.

So Vader shows up and says he wants Han, and is willing to keep the Empire out of Cloud City in exchange for him. Great, thinks Lando, get rid of that conniving SOB and serve my city's long-term interests. Only things go south when they try an experimental freezing process on Han (despite what the EU says, the movie dialogue makes clear it's not a common process at all), then hand him over to a bounty hunter who works for Jabba the Hutt. (It's one thing to turn a fellow small-time criminal over to the law, another to turn him over to a gang lord with a grudge.) He starts thinking better of the deal at that point, and, when Vader completely renegs on every part of the bargain, he inadvertently triggers a true change of heart that turns Lando from a neutral con man-turned-beaurocrat into a rebel who will blow up the second Death Star.

Bottom line: Lando's not a bad guy; he just was ticked off at Han and looking to serve the interests of himself and his city.

bigbarada
09-19-2009, 01:13 PM
I can't believe I missed this thread, or that this was never brought up before.

For some reason, Lando had reason to be TICKED at Han. Keep in mind that the Falcon lands under what is basically police escort, and they don't hesitate to fire at them. "That's been a long time; I'm sure he's forgotten about that," says Han. When they land, Lando pretends to be mad enough to fight at first (so overdramatically it's pretty obvious he's faking), and Han warns Chewie to keep his eyes open. The most logical explanation from what we actually get in the movie is that Lando lost the Falcon, and was not at all happy about it, and the two friends parted under bad circumstances.

So Vader shows up and says he wants Han, and is willing to keep the Empire out of Cloud City in exchange for him. Great, thinks Lando, get rid of that conniving SOB and serve my city's long-term interests. Only things go south when they try an experimental freezing process on Han (despite what the EU says, the movie dialogue makes clear it's not a common process at all), then hand him over to a bounty hunter who works for Jabba the Hutt. (It's one thing to turn a fellow small-time criminal over to the law, another to turn him over to a gang lord with a grudge.) He starts thinking better of the deal at that point, and, when Vader completely renegs on every part of the bargain, he inadvertently triggers a true change of heart that turns Lando from a neutral con man-turned-beaurocrat into a rebel who will blow up the second Death Star.

Bottom line: Lando's not a bad guy; he just was ticked off at Han and looking to serve the interests of himself and his city.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I guess a real world example would be if you had an old college buddy stay at your house for a few weeks. At some point during that stay he "won" your car from you and the next morning, he and your car are gone. After 5 or 6 years of no contact with this person (during which time you've started your own business that has been successful, but is struggling a bit), the FBI comes knocking on your door saying that they are looking for your old friend and he might have reason to contact you again. After a few veiled threats about going through your business' tax records and a possible prison sentence for aiding a fugitive, would it really be such a horrible thing to cooperate with the FBI? Obviously, your "friend" most likely brought all of this upon himself.

From that perspective, I could see a justification for Lando's initial actions.