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View Full Version : I love "Attack of the Clones"



Tycho
01-27-2004, 01:53 AM
I'm just marveling at how many times I watch this movie and never get bored.

I love Obi-Wan's detective story part quite a bit (besides the speeder chase and the end battle).

I also like Anakin's rant in the Lars' garage. I thought that was a great foreshadowing of what is to come.

Anyway, I really think AOTC hit a chord with me.

I wish there were 4 prequels instead of 3...

scruffziller
01-27-2004, 03:19 AM
Well in a way there is 4 prequels. When the CLONE WARS cartoons comes out on DVD. It will be the extra prequel.

Beast
01-27-2004, 03:32 AM
Indeed. So they really need to do a 'Between ANH and ESB 'Galactic War' series. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

TheDarthVader
01-27-2004, 01:46 PM
I love AOTC too! Yoda dueling, Anakin with two lightsabers, Bad A** Mace Windu, Kenobi and his "detective story", Jango Fett's Slave One in action, hyperspace rings, the planet Kamino, Sidious, Palpatine's manipulation of the senate, Amidala looking fabulous, R2-D2, and the "forbidden" love story.

And there is so much more that I like. I wish there were more prequels too and I like JJB idea of a movie between ANH and ESB.

Tycho
01-27-2004, 01:55 PM
All the rumors are pointing towards a "Young Darth Vader" series between Episodes 3 and 4. That could be cool, too.

Little Han and Little Lando could always show up - and maybe we'd get to see a T-16 race through Beggar's Canyon, and the new teenage Senator from Alderaan!

CaptainSolo1138
01-27-2004, 02:11 PM
I'm glad I finally found supporters. I've been in debate with my brother for two years now. He thinks Episode 1 was so much better than 2. My biggest argument is how much better/exciting/climatic the arena is compared to the Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Action Figure battle. And Padme is way hotter. And Hayden is better than Jake "Mannequin Skywalker" Lloyd. Don't getta me wrong-o (damn fanboy humor), I like E1 just fine. But it just isn't as good as E2. Hey, this is my 100th post. Do I get a cake or something?

Kidhuman
01-27-2004, 05:52 PM
I love AOTC. I think it is outstanding. The story line involved in it and all. I can never tire of it.

Tycho
01-27-2004, 06:33 PM
The Clones. That's another element that I think is so cool.

Star Wars has traditionally always had super soldiers, guys in white armor.

But when Yoda brings the calvary in and they rescue the Jedi in the arena, I still find myself cheering them on like the home team in the Super Bowl!

Here's a rare spot or occasion when you can really root for the armored troopers and they kick butt and take the day.

Then I love that shot of them storming through all the droids' fire and blasts and smoke and dust flying everywhere - you know the shot - right before Obi-Wan and Co. run off to chase Dooku. That is such an awesome shot and reminds me of the Stormtroopers blasting their way through the Tantive IV.

But in this case, I'm rooting for the Clones all the way.

They did such a good job on that battle sequence. Yup. I love "Attack of the Clones."

Kidhuman
01-27-2004, 07:33 PM
Yes they did Tycho. It is an awesome battle scene, probably one of the best in SW history. The clones kicked so much butt, it makes ya wonder what the heck happened toi the Stormtroopers

Exhaust Port
01-27-2004, 07:39 PM
I too am an AOTC fan. The battles, the detective story and the fall of Anakin are all outstanding. I'm hoping the upward trend in movie improvement holds and Ep. III is even more amazing. :)

stillakid
01-27-2004, 10:58 PM
Rah!

_______________

2-1B
01-28-2004, 01:57 AM
stillakid talks about how there are so few threads explaining why people love the prequels, 'where are the merits of the films', one might ask.
Then in slamming the prequels he opines that it would be so boring if everyone just took the prequels as being good without dissent.
Back again to the first point, now we have a thread here in which people are saying why they love this movie, and stillakid makes a thinly veiled "cheerleader" jab with a post like that. Okay. :)

I love Attack of the Clones, nearly 2 years later and it's still my favorite of the bunch, getting even better with every showing. Ohhhhhhh, it's got a few sour spots for me but the good far far far far outweighs the bad.

First of all I love Anakin Skywalker. I love the character and what he's going through. I love the actor who brought him to life, Hayden Christensen is a wonderful actor.
I can empathize with Anakin because at that same age, I thought I knew everything but of course I really didn't. Hell, sometimes I was even aware of that. Always confident though, sometimes cocky. Yet he's a genuine person, he's not cocky ALL the time. He's a hotshot and he likes to show off. When he deals with his superior in Obi-Wan Kenobi, we can see how immature he actually is at times. As much of a hotshot as he can be, he's not too far from being put in his place by the cool Kenobi.
Same with the ladies. He sure talks smart in that elevator scene but when thinking about Padme he is a mess.
Sweating.
Stumbling when he first talks to her.
Ahh yes, I remember those times all too well. :D

I love the storyline involving his mother. When I was young, that was always my greatest fear - to lose my mother. It never happened to me, thankfully, but it's heartbreaking to see Anakin lose his mother. The tears he sheds, the kiss he gives her palm, his eulogy at her grave, I think the emotion in these films is sometimes underappreciated. Yes, yes, the garage scene is powerful. Personally I feel it was strengthened very much by the home video reinsertion of Ani's line of remorse.

I seem to be in a minority of people who actually enjoyed the "Love Story." Oh, sure it's not totally realistic but there's only so much time for it to be on screen. I don't see it as 'rushed' but rather abridged. It could flow a bit better but overall I love it. The scene on the freighter to Naboo is very well done and I like the fireplace scene. I just think they could have done a better cut to the fireplace scene, that stage of their romance seemd like too quick of a jump for me. The balcony scene with the refused kiss is pretty cool, I like the awkwardness. :D
What do I think of the cornball dialogue? I like it, I really do. I remember reading a SW Insider interview with Hayden in which he tells about reading that stuff for the first time and thinking it was pretty weird and goofy. G Lu allegedly told him it was meant to be that way, an homage to some '30s style or whatever . . . personally, that served as a reassurement to me because as long as I know George doesn't really think it's realistic dialogue, then at least the joke's not on him. :D

I love Obi-Wan Kenobi and of course Ewan McGregor. What some people interpret as Ewan being bored and waiting to get off the set, I see a letter perfect homage to Sir Alec Guinness' work in the OT. Old Obi-Wan is flat as a board for the most part in the OT and I think it works perfectly for the character. Bravo, Ewan, for capturing that character better than I could even imagine pre-1999 and especially in 2002.
I love the scene in Dex's Diner (I do NOT approve of cutting Hermione Bagwa, however :mad: ) and I love Obi's interplay with his friend. I feel this expands on the OT Obi because it shows him in a more playful mood in his younger days. Before the dark times. :D
(Ewan should have been nominated for Big Fish).

The detective story is cool as hell. Kamino is a great planet, I'd love to visit. I like the look of the Kaminoans and I love their sterile environment. As a NONfanatic of the OT Boba Fett - I never bought into how "cool" his armor was :rolleyes: - I have a newfound interest in Boba while watching the OT (although his ANH addition was unneccesary :rolleyes: ). Anyway I can't say enough good things about Tem Morrison as Jango. Such a great adversary for Obi-Wan and best of all I think their coolest battle is the staredown and psychological chess match. Their physical romp was great, too, but for me it's the payoff from that encounter in Jangers' apartment.

I love Padme - Natalie Portman is great. The only scene of hers which falls flat for me is her dialogue in Palpatine's quarters right after the attack scene. "I think it was Count Dooku" doesn't sit well with me but overall she does a fine job.

I love so many of the minor characters: Dexter Jettster, Watto, Captain Typho, Dorme, Poggle the Lesser, Jar Jar Binks, that Geonosian in the blue smock who stands up in the arena crowd :D and others whom I can't recall right now.

There are several other things I love about Attack of the Clones. I'll come back tomorrow to yammer on some more about it. :)

Good call, Tycho.

stillakid
01-28-2004, 09:06 AM
stillakid talks about how there are so few threads explaining why people love the prequels, 'where are the merits of the films', one might ask.
Then in slamming the prequels he opines that it would be so boring if everyone just took the prequels as being good without dissent.
Back again to the first point, now we have a thread here in which people are saying why they love this movie, and stillakid makes a thinly veiled "cheerleader" jab with a post like that. Okay. :).


;) Well, I don't specifically remember asking a question like that, but maybe I did. Okay.

For the record, I think it's genuinely great that people find elements to cheer about. That's all I was doing (in what I thought was a funny way. :D ) Sure, there are elements to practically any film, book, or tv show that are cool, have merit, or deserve awards. But that doesn't mean that taken as a whole, the project (whatever it is) holds together.

In terms of AOTC, there are specific shots in the final battle which are pretty good. But not enough of them to "sell" it to me that this is a "great" battle. But I have the same problem with the Hoth battle in ESB. There, we are treated to a droning monologue from Luke instead of getting to see some of the trench warfare happening down on the ground. While that kind of thing wouldn't be pertinent necessarily, it might have heightened the drama and the danger facing the Rebellion.

So I'm sure that I too could easily sit down and create a list of individual moments, elements, set pieces, or production design objects that caught my eye, but I just wish there was stronger glue to hold it all together.

Rah!

scruffziller
01-28-2004, 11:22 AM
All the rumors are pointing towards a "Young Darth Vader" series between Episodes 3 and 4. That could be cool, too.


I'm not real familiar on the timelines. But isn't the time gap between 3 and 4 the longest. At any rate, a Young DV series............ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*scruffziller goes into a geek high induced convulsions and foams at the mouth while spasming uncontrollably*:D

Tycho
01-28-2004, 12:13 PM
Well the Young Darth Vader series looks like it could become a reality.

For fun, in the TV section, we've posted plot "spoilers" for the first 6 episodes of the YDV series. Hope you enjoy them.

stillakid
01-28-2004, 02:36 PM
*scruffziller goes into a geek high induced convulsions and foams at the mouth while spasming uncontrollably*:D
Do you have a digital camera? :crazed:

The 'Xir
01-28-2004, 07:38 PM
It's funny how the roles can reverse! 'Cause I remember having to deflect damnations of TPM with as quick Jedi-like reflexes like Qui-Gon and Obi-wan deflecting laserbolts from droidekas! But, now I'm the one who's gone over to the darkside. But don't get me wrong, because I love AotC for alot of the same reasons you guys have mentioned, and I think most people hear know how I love all the movies equally; but if I were forced to chose one that was of lesser quality I think I'd have to chose AotC! Beacuse like the so-called problems in TPM bugged the crud out of you guys and stuck out like a sore thumb(for you guys), I guess there are things in AotC, that are just painfully glarring problems for me and simply bug the crud out of me!
It also probably doesn't help that HBO and Cinemax have played it 2-4 times a day every other day for the past 4 months!
But, that whole fireplace romance scene is just unbearable to watch! I didn't like Shmi's death scene too much either!
Although they did it as best as they can, Yoda should never have been given a lightsaber! I don't like the look of the Insect-like Geonosians! I thought Ani and Padmes walk through their nest and insuing factory mishaps were all one big movie mishap. Like R2 saving Padme, the timing was all wrong. In the OT R2 would have to take a minute to find the right data to do something, which would build suspense, to see if he could get the main characters out of danger, and in saving Padme it was like instant hero, oh it's over he saved her, let's move on, next scene! :confused:
The arena execution scenes were bad and looked too cartoonish, I really only liked the reek and that's just the character design itself. None of it's interactions with other characters were of any quality or believabilty, mainly Padme's 6 story "jump" and drop onto it's back(I didn't know she had Jedi powres too), and it's bull like hoov scrap and charge at Mace/Jango was goofy! The Crab and Cat creatures were just aweful, non of them were even remotely as good as the Rancor in RotJ! The Rancor you were scared of, these other idiotic things were well idotic! I hated the forced recurring lines between Ben and Dooku, "Qui-Gon Ginn would never join you"/ "Join me Obi Wan and together we can destroy the Sith"/ "I'll never join you Dooku" alright already enough of the joining and stop stealing from ESB! And why is everybody everyone else's master or apprentice in this movie! Too repetitious! In the end duel, why are Ben and Anakin just lying there, ben had the force stregth to force grab the lightsaber and throw it to Anakin, why not help Yoda force lift that huge pipe structure out of harms way. And Anakin just had an arm cut off, what you can't stand up? They shoulda had Dooku slice that structure with his saber, and pin atleast one of Anakin's legs down on the ground, hoping to flee and then have Yoda come in for the rescue, atleast it would made sense instead of having them just lye there, and it would have given reason to give Anakin a prostetic leg too! Or Hell pin both legs then it would make sense when Anakin falls into the lava pit in Ep3, because then they could just submerge his legs which wouldn't hurt as bad as his actual flesh which your body would probably go into shock and you'd die from, and he could just recieve burns to his waste and chest from the steam and proximity of the lava! But don't worry I'm sure they'll just show him fall over an edge and no submersion because then that would be just ridiculous, no-one could survive submersion in lava, not even the chosen one! UUuggghhh**sigh** ... I didn't know I had it in me! Sorry for the rant, but I guess that has been building up inside me for awhile! There are other things that bug me too I'm sure, but I just can't think of any more right now! Down with AotC!!!(j/k) :p and all Hail TPM!!! :crazed: crazy I know, but hey it's just 1mo(one mans opinion)!

2-1B
01-29-2004, 01:56 AM
Xir, you're definitely in the minority of a minority in preferring TPM over AOTC. :D

Personally, I loved TPM and thought it's positives outweighed the negatives . . . then AOTC came along which I love probably 10 times more than TPM.

Jeez, even most of the "prequel bashers" admit that AOTC is a better movie (even if only because TPM was so "bad" ). :crazed:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love the soundtrack to this movie. I think Across the Stars is a great theme . . . it just might be my favorite piece from the saga. Well, of course not above the Imperial March or the main title theme but it's right there behind them. :)

Another thing I love about this movie is that it makes me not want to see Episode 3. :D
I know where the story is eventually going - and since I like these characters, I don't want them to experience tragedy.

I love the fact that they went balls out on the CGI. There are plenty of shots which could/should have been done better but overall I thought it was good enough. Since they were going to use CGI anyway, I say load it up and get the eyes used to seeing in so I can slip into it more easily.
To show my point from another perspective, I'll refer to the LOTR trilogy (which I do love, by the way). See, those movies have a rich and luscious background, costume, etc. and then periodically . . .

BAM !

. . . some stupid looking CGI Cave Troll, Shelob Spider, or Gollum comes out of nowhere and totally f's up the shot. People like to talk about how CGI should be used sparingly. I agree if we are only talking about using it for backdrops. But if we are going to include a handful of CGI characters (LOTR) then I think it's just better to go overboard and blend it in more (AOTC). For me AOTC's CGI would be much better if they removed the blemish of CG-3P0 (ESPECIALLY) and CG Jango and Anakin.

JediTricks
01-29-2004, 04:22 AM
I very much consider TPM to be superior to AOTC, upon seeing this thread, I tried to watch Ep 2 again but couldn't even sit through the first 10 minutes. Right after Typho has his first lines, I got so bored and annoyed that I started reading a magazine, and by the time we were halfway through the scene in Padme's apartment, I had become so irritated by the movie that I flicked it off. It's odd, both TPM and AOTC start with lines so awful to me that I get a little uneasy and feel ashamed.

stillakid
01-29-2004, 10:35 AM
I very much consider TPM to be superior to AOTC, upon seeing this thread, I tried to watch Ep 2 again but couldn't even sit through the first 10 minutes. Right after Typho has his first lines, I got so bored and annoyed that I started reading a magazine, and by the time we were halfway through the scene in Padme's apartment, I had become so irritated by the movie that I flicked it off. It's odd, both TPM and AOTC start with lines so awful to me that I get a little uneasy and feel ashamed.


Yeah, ya know, that's kinda the way I feel. Don't get me wrong, I wish I could "sit back and enjoy it for what it is" etc. There are things and stuff and moments that I'd like to watch again and again but it's the getting there, having to wade through the awkward and hokey dialogue and the thin inconsistent plot and character development that makes the journey so difficult. It's really the same disease that afflicts both TPM and AOTC. Shame really, because it didn't have to be that way. George has that vision to see what the cool elements are but has never been able to fashion them together in the context of a cohesive story on his own. And he knows this, which is why his decision to go it alone makes even less sense.

What do I like about these films? The idea behind the podrace was cool as well as the hardware. The sound design helped make that sequence as well. I liked the Naboo fighters. Cool design. I liked seeing 3PO without gold plating. I liked Kamino. I loved the "bomber" ship that explodes in the beginning of AOTC.

I could go on and on with those tiny independent moments that were so interesting, but all the production design in the world will never replace a solid story.

Tycho
01-29-2004, 12:26 PM
Stillakind made me think about the podrace.

I went through several phases with the race.

At first I thought it gave Tatooine a fun subplot - something for them to do there besides find parts for a ship, which may as well have been about as interesting as an ESPN2 interview with a retired racecar driver describing his repair shop.

The discovery of Anakin was the most important point or reason for being there, though that the ship gets damaged running the blockade is a fairly logical and reasonable plot point that makes it seem more realistic.

However, the race clearly shows how good of a pilot Anakin is at such a young age, and it makes you stand up and cheer like any good sporting event.

There was for a while a time when I got bored with the Podracing stuff - I like shooting and more of the galatic war story, Jedi vs Sith, and the larger story. I realize it's Anakin's story, but get him along and into it. That's great he can fly - but now let's see him fight.

Now I've come full circle and like the podrace as it is on the DVD with the cool extended Lap 2 sequence, which really heightens the excitement of the whole thing with all its details.

And I like the idea that each Star Wars prequel has it's own genre, almost:

Episode 2 was clearly a "murder-mystery / bodyguard romance story."

Episode 1 almost did a Sea Biscuit thing, with gambling and "horse racing." (I never saw Sea Biscuit, but I'm guessing). So it was a totally different kind of element of a movie.

Does the original trilogy have genre films? Difficult to say.

Episode 5 could very liberally be viewed as a stalker movie, or a Karate-Kid type piece, with the Vader-Luke element.

I'm sure that Episode 4 was just about as original of science-fantasy film as you can get, being mindful that it was all borrowed from the comic book style of Flash Gordon, and the pirate movies, etc. etc.

I guess Endor was just a huge free-for-all / ultimate showdown style movie.

But what I think I'm getting at is that the prequels offer a different style to the menu - genre films, almost. And I like that.

(Stillakid, I know you're going to respond to this, so please try and not requote my whole post, and say what you're going to say without making us scroll through everything I just wrote again. I'm just interested in reading your points. I wrote my own. Thanks).

stillakid
01-29-2004, 11:14 PM
(Stillakid, I know you're going to respond to this, so please try and not requote my whole post, and say what you're going to say without making us scroll through everything I just wrote again. I'm just interested in reading your points. I wrote my own. Thanks).

Actually, I wasn't going to. :D But now that I have, I guess I did.
:crazed:

jjreason
01-30-2004, 01:17 AM
Aww shucks, I just tuned in here to see Stilla's "trilogy-ism" flare up again, and the sparks flying. Pity. :D

By the way, Skeezer, I still love AOTC.

Tycho
01-30-2004, 01:42 AM
OK, Stillakid, but you can respond to what you (and everyone else) thinks of my "genre films" theory.

That E1 took on a sports-gambling type of take to the SW galaxy during largely a peace time in the galaxy.

And E2 took a murder-mystery / bodyguard story style to it.

Did the Classic films have any genre style to them? Were they all the same style as each other? (4,5,6)

Is doing genre films good or bad for the Star Wars FILMS continuity? (I'm talking about movies, not the goings on in the SW galaxy - just the styles of the movies).

The 'Xir
01-30-2004, 03:13 AM
I very much consider TPM to be superior to AOTC, upon seeing this thread, I tried to watch Ep 2 again but couldn't even sit through the first 10 minutes. Right after Typho has his first lines, I got so bored and annoyed that I started reading a magazine, and by the time we were halfway through the scene in Padme's apartment, I had become so irritated by the movie that I flicked it off. It's odd, both TPM and AOTC start with lines so awful to me that I get a little uneasy and feel ashamed.

Wow JT!!! How far we have come! Wasn't it you that I used to get into all those fights with, about TPM? And I swearing by everything that Lucas did... now look at us! :eek:

Actually I look at TPM, and ANH as very similar films! Remember SW:ANH aint exactly fast paced in the begining(meaning after the opening shot! Once the droids are down on Tatooine)! It moves kinda slow, but we were just so wowed by eveything we were seeing back in the 70's that we didn't care! They both are character introduction and development stories, and one reason they can tend to drag! But they both have a great sense of adventure about them, and the main reason why I think TPM works or is better over AotC! Then they both have great climaxes and conclusions, although I'll admit Lucas makes you work harder for that suspension of disbelief in TPM, where as ANH was just instant acceptence that everything you were watching was possible! Also Lucas didn't develop that whole intertwining of storylines(at the end of each film) until RotJ, but he has continued that style in both TPM and AotC!
And as I said long ago, for those that aren't huge fans of TPM, I know it's Anakin's story, but really I think the main character in TPM is Amidala! If you watch the movie with that in mind and with the idea of the story being told through the eyes of the Jedi, like Lukes story in ANH was suppossed to be told through the "eyes" of the droids, while keeping in mind that Palpatine is plotting to become the Emperor it's easier to "get" the movie!

aceguide
01-30-2004, 08:37 AM
Tycho -

I think that the OT has some of the genre feel - but not as overt in the PT. I personally believe that has more to do with movie making these days than an effort by old GL.

Regardless - here's how I see it...

4

Classic swashbuckler - young kid on an amazing mission with a scurvey pirate (scoundrel) with no idea what he's gotten into or where he's going. Of course there's the madatory fair princess that gets him into the mess (unfortuantely it turns out to be his sister and the scoundrel walks off with the "goods").

5

Coming of age (Karate Kid is an excellent reference) - gets some training - fighting the loosing fight. Revelation at the end only reinforces the path that he's on.

6

Showdown at the OK coral - everyone get your fellas and meet me at high noon for the shoot out...

Certainly each could use some elaboration - and there are other themes throughout (much like the PT).

Truth be told - SW as a whole created its own genre.

Any houghts Tycho/others?

Tycho
01-30-2004, 11:48 AM
ACtually, I was thinking about something The Xir said which I disagree with:

That Lucas started using intertwining stories of different characters in ROTJ.

It was actually ANH:

The main gist of the movie was Luke becoming involved in R2D2's quest to fulfill his mission and bring the stolen plans to the Rebellion so they could try and defend against the Death Star, right? R2 solicited Jedi help through Leia's request to Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the Force brought Luke along.

But Leia was having a very minor b-story, as she was captured and tortured at the hands of the Empire - including "Anakin's."

And "Anakin" was having his story, about his role being the enforcer for the Empire, charged with ending the Rebellion.


ESB firmly solidified these separate elements into solid cases for several stories:

Luke and R2 were on Dagobah, while Han and Leia went everywhere else, until their fate, brought on by "Anakin," entwined with what was Luke's drive and cause.

ROTJ brought Lando and Wedge's adventure into the fold, in the space battle, while Han and Leia still had their separate adventures from Luke and "Anakin."

TPM brought most of the cast together as they got picked up once Qui-Gon made contact with Padme. However, the final battle separated them all to a) the Gungan War, b) the retaking of Theed, c) the space battle, and d) the generator duel. This was one degree of separation greater than ROTJ,

but you had more characters:

Luke, Vader ..........Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Maul
Han, Leia...............Panaka, Padme, Nute Gunray
Wedge, Lando........Anakin, R2D2, (Ric Olee?)
any Ewok get a focal point?..........JarJar, Captain Tarpals


AOTC did a more basic separation:

Obi-Wan's adventure
Anakin and Padme's adventure
Mace and Yoda were backups
Palpatine's scheming comes into the picture (if you know Palpatine's dirty)

The bad guys were incidental, as their "stories" weren't really being told - Jango was just part of Obi-Wan's tale, and the story was not being told through Dooku's eyes either.

The end battle did some separation, but not really:

Anakin and Obi-Wan and Padme fought together.

Mace took care of Jango, but neither was really important to the story the way Han and Leia's separation (and mission) was from Luke's.

Palpatine wasn't in the end battle, but his steps to obtaining totalitarian control were unfolding, if subtley - an element of the story myself and other AOTC fans love.


All this does not make AOTC a worse or better movie, since it is less complicated in its climax. Heck, many people appreciate that.

I'm only illustrating a difference that The Xir brought up that was fun to examine.

Beast
01-30-2004, 12:03 PM
Chalk me up as someone that prefers The Phantom Menace to Attack of the Clones also. I just think the storyline is much richer and more intricate in the various ways that events are manipulated. I prefer Attack of the Clones for certain things though. The Obi/Ani/Dooku/Yoda Saber battle is superior to the Obi/Qui/Maul one. But the political intrique and the storyline just seems better to me. Infact TPM is my favorite film at the moment. But AOTC's definatly kicks arse. :)

1. The Phantom Menace
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Return of the Jedi
5. A New Hope

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jjreason
01-30-2004, 03:38 PM
Regarding the "genre" concept, I feel that the SW movies are all sci fi. I would consider what your referring to as "genres" to be "plot devices" or "common themes" that we see over and over again. To me genre is pretty general: action, drama, sci fi, horror, comedy and the blends there of (Jackie Chan movies, Crouching Tiger, etc.).

Common situations, themes and plot devices are seen over and over again in movies because they very conveniently place people into stressful situations together on screen - which leads of course to bonding, and in many cases romance (the whole bodyguard angle, impending war, rescuing the princess, etc). Nothing new under the sun here.

Lucas has always been very up front about his borrowing aspects of movies and stories he admires and using them as inspiration for the characters and situations seen in Star Wars. I guess I never deduced how big a fan of Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston he really was until I read this thread. :)

Tycho
01-30-2004, 05:26 PM
Well, there are only so many plots you can do that have never been done before. At the risk of being plagerized, my excellent ideas stolen, etc., I'll share some that could make Episode 3 original, and like no movie ever before:


1) Anakin adopts a grocery shopping cart as a pet and names it Fred. When SaeSee Tiin borrows it and one of Fred's wheels break, Anakin goes beserk and sets off on a quest for revenge. (OK, technically, this is similar to Tom Hanks, stranded on the island, with Wilson the Volleyball, but it's still mostly a new take on things).

Hmmm. It is getting difficult already to come up with very original story ideas...


2) Anakin eats some hot and spicy Rodian food that doesn't go down well with him. Ever impatient with his body trying to get over his stomach ache, Anakin loses it and cuts his intestines out with his own lightsaber, thus requiring he wear the black suit to protect his wounded body. When Obi-Wan finds out Anakin drank the last of the milk in the Jedi Temple to try and ease his indigestion, Kenobi, a compulsive chocolate-chip cookie eater, gets infuriated and they duel in what will become the ultimate "Got Milk?" commercial.


3) The Clones in their off-duty time become fans of "The Mullets" and organize a write-in campaign to keep the show on the air. Fans of the hairstyle, Obi-Wan and Anakin join the fight with their Clone Armies. Palpatine, wanting to change the fashions for his New Order, creates a competing Clone Army to fight this social insurgency: the Flat-Tops (they look more like traditional Stormtroopers). As the Mullet-Rebellion continues, the Clone Wars erupt like they never have before. Imperial Senators start wearing donuts in their hair during this era to show their allegiance to the Empire: you can't sport a mullet if your long hair is tied up in donuts, can you? Leia fakes her allegiance, and by ROTJ, we see her with her hair down.
Anakin turns to the Dark Side, because his tragedy causes him to have no hair! This all was intended by Lucas from the beginning, which is why the first films made were done in the 70's and everyone had that style thing going with their hair.

Anyway, I have a few other possible storylines that would be unpredictable and I'll post them if anybody's interested.

AND THAT, Stillakid, is how to be an original writer. - the only reason I'm not a big name in Hollywood today is because they're all scared of a guy like me with talent like this! :crazed:

JediTricks
01-30-2004, 07:23 PM
Don't get me wrong Xir, I still have no love for TPM, I just consider it to be superior to AOTC. I don't think there's much intertwining storyline thing in TPM until the final battle, that's where Lucas gets all silly with that stuff, before that we follow Qui-Gon through pretty much the whole picture. Heck, he even cut a shot of Obi-Wan getting out of the TF Landing Craft which explains why his saber isn't operational before they hit Otoh Gunga. As for the separate storylines, that was born in ESB, though that film keeps it at a calmer 2 storylines to the 3 or more storylines in ROTJ and beyond.


I think you guys trying to pigeonhole the OT films into specific genres are grasping at straws, you're looking for minutae while the overall theme seems to be lost. Part of the reason SW, ESB, and ROTJ are so popular is because they aren't emulating popular filmstyles, Lucas was drawing off of little-known (in the Western culture) Japanese cinema to reinterpret the classic sci-fi serials of old. I don't think the prequels are trying to do that, which is why it's easier to pigeonhole them into those well-known genres and probably why they do feel different from the OT.


I think I'm getting lost in this thread, originally I didn't want to post in it since I don't love AOTC, but the mention that nearly all fans prefer AOTC to TPM got me to reply. Now I'm discussing that with Xir & JJB, and sticking my pinky toe into the waters of genre-defining the films which is pretty far off-topic (and not something I'm even that interested in). Maybe this is how I have 8,000+ posts on these forums. ;)

The 'Xir
01-30-2004, 09:38 PM
Exactly JT that was sort of my whole point as far as how the storylines are intertwined!

ACtually, I was thinking about something The Xir said which I disagree with:

That Lucas started using intertwining stories of different characters in ROTJ.

Read my post again there Tycho


Also Lucas didn't develop that whole intertwining of storylines(at the end of each film) until RotJ, but he has continued that style in both TPM and AotC!

Meaning his style of climaxes! Of course there are intertwining storylines throughout the whole movie(s)! But, I meant him taking all those storylines(within a movie) and he intertwines all the conclusions, by flash editing them together. Ex) We see Anakin autopiloted to the space battle, Flash to: Ben, Qui-Gon and Maul starting to fight, Flash to: Amidala and crew trying to seize the palace Flash back to Anakin, back to the fight, back to Amidala and Co back to Ani, etc, etc, etc.... He first used that technique in RotJ! ANH just had the space battle, while ESB just had two storylines that just had intertwined throughout the whole movie. While RotJ had mutiple storylines! Flash to Luke and Vader, Flash to Lando and the Rebel fleet, Flash to our Rebel friends down on the Endor moon, flash back to Luke, Vader & Emperor, back to Lando and crew, then back to Endor, etc, etc, etc!!!
TPM, is the same way(obviously as I described above), and AotC is the same way, and so much so that he's mastered it to the point of seguing the flash edits(if that is the real tech term, I don't know) by similar dramatic moments, like when Padme Falls from the Republic gunship and comes to rest on her back, then Anakin is struck down by Dooku and comes to rest on his back and as he writhes in pain, we segue to Padme writhing in pain and then she jumps up to rejoin the fight, seguing back to Anakin jumping up rejoining the fight to save Ben at the last minute from Dooku's blade! The guy is good!

Although now I agree with JT that were just a little off topic! I love AotC, and believe me when I say that I really do love all the films equally, but as I started my hate post..:

but if I were forced to chose one that was of lesser quality I think I'd have to chose AotC! Beacuse like the so-called problems in TPM bugged the crud out of you guys and stuck out like a sore thumb(for you guys), I guess there are things in AotC, that are just painfully glarring problems for me and simply bug the crud out of me!


Now I'm discussing that with Xir & JJB, and sticking my pinky toe into the waters of genre-defining the films which is pretty far off-topic (and not something I'm even that interested in). Maybe this is how I have 8,000+ posts on these forums. ;)

I try to stay away, but they just keep sucking me back in...and sucking me back in, until there's nothing left to suck!" :D :p ;)

JediTricks
01-30-2004, 10:03 PM
Hmm, interesting point about the quick cuts for the end battles of the films. I consider ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC to be the bottom half of the saga, and those 3 use the quick-cut end battle method more and more. I never considered there to be a strong correlation between the 2 issues, but perhaps there is, a little.

Tycho
01-30-2004, 10:35 PM
Sometimes I like those quick-cuts, sometimes I don't.

Yes, now I get the conclusion you were arriving at - sort of:

In the Battle of Yavin, you do cut back to Leia and Tarkin during the Death Star battle.

"Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances."

It is not at all as intricate as the cuts in ROTJ or TPM, but neither is AOTC.

In Empire, just to settle that one, yes, it's obviously Lando-Leia-Chewie, and Luke vs. Vader - and definitely well-done - the lightsaber fight progressing through rooms just like it does in TPM, except for the larger number of cuts in TPM.

Now in AOTC, Padme's point of separation is about as consequential as Leia or Tarkins in ANH. Except Padme actually does rejoin the fight and gets to fire her weapon at Dooku as he takes off - thereby she's even less separated by cuts and significance, than Leia and Tarkin.

Actually, I think that's why the end of AOTC works so well and is such a great piece of editing.

But in terms of stunts and so forth, TPM had the best lightsaber duel ever - with 2 on 1 as a Master-Apprentice team should be (unless the padawan is a raving bi-polar maniac who's overly impressed with his own abilities), and the part where Obi-Wan goes off on Maul (just after Qui-Gon goes down) is truly the best moment in lightsaber fighting history caught on film to date.

Lightsaber fights from best to "just good" (since none are bad)

1- the best: TPM
2 - ESB
3 - Yoda vs. Dooku (AOTC)
4 - ROTJ
5 - ANH

The 'Xir
01-31-2004, 01:42 AM
Before I was just stating how I thought that both TPM and ANH were very similar films, but that was one difference, in that Lucas hadn't started that style of editing and intertwining of storyline conclusions!
Yes ANH does flash back to Leia and Tarkin, but as you kinda stated Tycho, they're not really doing anything, actually there storylines are pretty much already concluded they are just watching and along for the ride just like the audience is, watching to see if Luke will succeed!

Who knows JT, maybe that is a reason for your dislike of those three films. If I were to pinpoint a single disparity betwen trilogies that make the original better, is the lack of chemistry between the characters in the PT! Luke, Leia, Han, and even Chewie and the droids, all had a smart-alec off the cuff comedic delivery to their lines that doesn't or barely exists in the PT.

stillakid
01-31-2004, 10:16 AM
Who knows JT, maybe that is a reason for your dislike of those three films. If I were to pinpoint a single disparity betwen trilogies that make the original better, is the lack of chemistry between the characters in the PT! Luke, Leia, Han, and even Chewie and the droids, all had a smart-alec off the cuff comedic delivery to their lines that doesn't or barely exists in the PT.

Obi Wan's more relaxed attitude throughout AOTC is the single example of this off-the-cuff style you speak of above. Aside from the pretty pictures, it counts as one of the only things that makes AOTC watchable for me. While everyone else delivers their poor dialogue in strained monotones, Ewan managed to finally bring actual life to his character after having been confined in TPM. Natalie is really a very fine actress and George is wasting her potential.

Exhaust Port
01-31-2004, 10:23 AM
I think Ewan is really going to steal away the PT from everyone else. I'm really looking forward to his acting in the next movie.

Tycho
01-31-2004, 12:39 PM
Who knows JT, maybe that is a reason for your dislike of those three films. If I were to pinpoint a single disparity betwen trilogies that make the original better, is the lack of chemistry between the characters in the PT! Luke, Leia, Han, and even Chewie and the droids, all had a smart-alec off the cuff comedic delivery to their lines that doesn't or barely exists in the PT.

That's a valid point, but I think it's supposed to be that way:

Jedi are not supposed to show emotions or make saracastic comments (cynacism is an attitude based on emotion). Qui-Gon was supposed to be very stoic, but there are moments, like when he winks at Anakin or says "well perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him." But for the most part he is reserved, and he also seems to know what he is doing.

Characters that are younger and more unsure of themselves say the sarcastic stuff: "You were right master. The negotiations were short." - Obi-Wan had no idea what to expect from the Trade Federation as evidenced by other dialogue.

Han Solo uses sarcasm to mask fear. If Star Wars was real, you just don't board a top secret battle station of a totalitarian government's and rescue a prisoner and blast your way out. That's not normal even for their galaxy. "When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out of here?" No - they did not. Not a backup plan at least.

The Jedi are trained to know what they are doing. Luke had barely had any training, and all of Han's Imperial training told him that what they were trying to do was crazy - he just had nothing to lose by trying it.

Obi-Wan's moments of greatest levity (in the prequels) are with Dexter Jettster for one - and very notably NOT when he's with Anakin (most of the time). The speeder chase through him off-balance, so he exchanged banter with Anakin, but it was still of a teacher-student sort.

But yes, I do think Ewan's acting in the prequels is top rate. I also think Ian McDiarmid (Palpatine) is great too!


IN ANY CASE, I THINK HAVING ANOTHER SARCASTIC CHARACTER IN THE PREQUELS (like Han Solo) WOULD BE FURTHER COPYING WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE, and Lucas is rather sharp to distinguish the two trilogies in this way as well, and not pander to what the audience is familiar with.

There is only one Han Solo - and it ought to be that way.

I don't think we should take away from the uniqueness of his character by copying that for the prequels.

The 'Xir
01-31-2004, 02:24 PM
That's funny...You sound like me when I was defending the hell out of TPM way back when! And I agree with alot of what your saying tycho, believe it or not, especially with things like not copying certain character traits like having a Han-like character in the PT. I wouldn't want that either! But, In certain areas or circumstances I remember using the repeating themed argument for defending TPM, because I knew Georges approach to making these movies, and although he's able to pull it off better in some area of the films then others, it is as he says like making music! I play guitar and maybe why I adhere to that line of thinking more easily!
I agree with you guys also that Ewan did have a "more relaxed" approach to Ben and I think it definitly comes across well on screen! I just doesn't seem like the chemistry is there though with all the characters in AotC! I don't know what it is! I know some people blame the writing, I'm not neccessarily, but I just sense something missing from AotC that I get from all the other movies Including TPM.
Don't worry In about 5-10 years after my 300th+ vieiwng I won't be saying anything about it at all, and still have that undying devotion for everything Lucas does! 'Cause actually way back when, I remember not liking ESB as much as I did SW when I first saw it, so maybe it's the same with these two films and I just need time to absorb AotC! :neutral:

stillakid
01-31-2004, 03:57 PM
That's a valid point, but I think it's supposed to be that way:

Jedi are not supposed to show emotions or make saracastic comments (cynacism is an attitude based on emotion). Qui-Gon was supposed to be very stoic, but there are moments, like when he winks at Anakin or says "well perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him." But for the most part he is reserved, and he also seems to know what he is doing.

Characters that are younger and more unsure of themselves say the sarcastic stuff: "You were right master. The negotiations were short." - Obi-Wan had no idea what to expect from the Trade Federation as evidenced by other dialogue.

Han Solo uses sarcasm to mask fear. If Star Wars was real, you just don't board a top secret battle station of a totalitarian government's and rescue a prisoner and blast your way out. That's not normal even for their galaxy. "When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out of here?" No - they did not. Not a backup plan at least.

The Jedi are trained to know what they are doing. Luke had barely had any training, and all of Han's Imperial training told him that what they were trying to do was crazy - he just had nothing to lose by trying it.

Obi-Wan's moments of greatest levity (in the prequels) are with Dexter Jettster for one - and very notably NOT when he's with Anakin (most of the time). The speeder chase through him off-balance, so he exchanged banter with Anakin, but it was still of a teacher-student sort.

But yes, I do think Ewan's acting in the prequels is top rate. I also think Ian McDiarmid (Palpatine) is great too!


IN ANY CASE, I THINK HAVING ANOTHER SARCASTIC CHARACTER IN THE PREQUELS (like Han Solo) WOULD BE FURTHER COPYING WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE, and Lucas is rather sharp to distinguish the two trilogies in this way as well, and not pander to what the audience is familiar with.

There is only one Han Solo - and it ought to be that way.

I don't think we should take away from the uniqueness of his character by copying that for the prequels.


Well, for one thing, it's not like they planned on invading the Death Star. As in any good story, the heros had a decent plan but continually wound up in one cliff-hanger after another. This serial-esque style is evident throughout the OT, from Luke's fortuitous escape from being killed on the homestead, to the aforementioned Death Star fiasco and throughout to the Falcon's accidental run-in with a space slug in ESB. The important distinction is that in most cases, the characters didn't decide to do the unexpected which put them in more trouble than they counted on, it all just sort of happens to them. One exception is the trip to Cloud City, but again, they got into trouble that they didn't expect. It's these accidental missteps by the characters that not only build a great story, but also help to build...well, character. The way each personality reacts to the situations and how each character reacts to each other is what makes for an enjoyable (or not) experience for the audience. The interplay between all the good guys in the OT worked on every level even when they weren't talking about galactic conflict. Not for a minute did their reactions ever seem forced just to advance the story or try to sell a plot-point.

Not so in the Prequels thus far. Vulcan-Jedi notwithstanding, I don't see why that "non-emotion" card can be fairly played as an excuse for dry dialogue and character. Besides, never in the saga was it implied that Jedi were to have no or minimal emotion. The trick was to control their reactions to situations. Even Yoda got frustrated with Luke on occasion, but he didn't smite him into oblivion. This is why "the Force" was a metaphor for our own lives here on Earth. While we don't have telekinetic powers to help get inside a girl's panties with fruit levitation tricks, we do have emotions and the free-will to choose how we will exhibit them. It's this basic foundation of how real humans could relate to these "mystical" sci-fi elements that made the OT films something that non-sci fi audiences could fall in love with. I believe that this is part of the reason why so many of the non-sci fi audience were turned off by the cold and calculated reimagining of all of this when the Prequels hit the screens. Suddenly, instead of being a metaphor for their own lives, Star Wars was being reduced to no more than a dumping ground for geek requests, from "More Fett!" to seeing the creation of Vader. It's not a story anymore...it's a parade of the 100 Things Die Hard Fans Really Want to See. Not that there is anything wrong with that necessarily, but it takes more than a bunch of disjointed "moments" to create a good story.

Tycho
01-31-2004, 05:09 PM
I don't think the prequels are coming out disjointed, but Stillakid really made some well-articulated and insightful points I enjoyed reading (finally).

There are still some of those mishaps in the prequel trilogy:

They busted out of the Naboo hanger to go to Coruscant, not Tatooine.

They were there to refix an engine, not bet on podracing.

Going to the Senate was supposed to solve everything, not continue the stalemate along.

Obi-Wan's literal intentions for protecting Amidala was not to end up going to Kamino and then Geonosis to track down the assassin. He told Anakin specifically that they were there just to protect her. (He let the Force guide him to go after the droid and Zam Wessel)

The discovery of the Clone Army might have been entirely by accident, or by design, since Palpatine requested Jedi help in protecting Amidala. I think he wants to blame the Jedi for the Clones (Clone Wars, creation of them, etc.) so it all plays into the part. The Sypho-Dyas thing will have to get explained to really know for sure.

Kidhuman
01-31-2004, 07:24 PM
As in ANH and ESB building some kind of mystery for the third part, so is TPM and AOTC. It all follows along the same guidelines.

ANH and TPM: Introduction of the characters. Getting to know who they are and whattheir roles will be later in the movies. Like Luke, Anakin was a youngster. He grew and matured (although different paths) as Luke did. They othjer characters like Obi-Wan and Padme are being introduced into the story as well.

ESB and AOTC: Now that we know the characters fairly decent, the main characters (Luke and Anakin) are shown as maturing into "adulthood". The decisions they make and how they will alter their lives eventually.

ROTJ and EPIII: It all comes to a head. The classic battle of good vs evil. The dark side vs the light side. Which side is actually stronger? We all know the outcome of EPIII from basic knowlegde of the entire set of movies.

These movies are so much alike in storyline its not funny.

Now about the chemistry thing, you guys have a point. Hammil, Fisher, Ford and so one had great chemistry between them, they pretty much just went with the flow.

Ewan is doing a fine job in this trilogy of acting. He has no flaws in my eyes. The chemistry problemis between Portman and Hayden. They seem like brother and sister trying to carry on an affair. Its horrible chemistry. To me that is the only downside tothe trilogy is the lack of chemistry between those too. It almost seems as they are trying way to hard to be perfect.

2-1B
02-01-2004, 04:37 AM
stillakid, I have a problem with the way you use the "Fett Story" to show how George is pandering to the "die hards."

These geeks you refer to . . . when people were clamoring for Boba Fett, they wanted BOBA FETT to be in the prequels, same as he was in the OT. What those fans got in the prequels was NOT what they had in mind or "begged for" as you seem to imply.

I remember reading an interview with George, I believe in the Insider, where he said that he needed a bounty hunter to serve the story as a clone template. He of course knew how popular OT Boba Fett had become, so he decided to work him into the storyline.

What the hell is the problem with that? George did not just dump Fett in there to give the die hards a die-hard on, he did it in a way as to expand on a character. I think he did a decent job of it. He could have used Dengar and nobody would rip on him for recycling (because Dengar doesn't have the cult following).

So he reused Fett's armor and showed its backstory. What does it matter ? It's just armor, for crying out loud. He could have named Jango "Jango McCallum" with a different set of "cool" armor with a baby clone and it would have served the story the SAME way. Sure, it would not have the impact on the OT as Jango Fett does but it certainly would not be a point over which to criticize AOTC.
I think it is unfair that you trivialize AOTC as turning the saga into "Swiss Family Fett" because the character was not dropped in without merit - he is actually there to serve a purpose. George took a cameo player from the OT and made him much more dimensional.

Those geeks who blow their loads over "how cool" Fett was in the OT are ridiculous and I myself never bought into that garbage. I always thought Bossk was more interesting. ;) But now that AOTC is out, I love the character of Jango Fett and I think his son Boba is a nice touch.

George's use of Greedo in TPM was shameful and cheap . . . thankfully it was cut. I think the Fett angle in AOTC is the complete opposite. :)

stillakid
02-01-2004, 09:48 AM
I remember reading an interview with George, I believe in the Insider, where he said that he needed a bounty hunter to serve the story as a clone template. He of course knew how popular OT Boba Fett had become, so he decided to work him into the storyline.


Well, yeah, I read the same thing, and based on that, he did just dump the "Fett" personae into the Prequels to "give the fans what they wanted." Sure, of course, he weaved the idea into the story at hand, just as the whole Greedo thing was at first. But "for the fans" was his primary motivation which is why I approach the "Fett" thing the way I do. Had Fett been absolutely necessary for fulfilling that role in the Prequels (as in, there was absolutely no one else who could have conceivably had that role), then there would be no argument. But he could have used anyone or anything to be the clone template. In fact, the "who" of who is used is such an unimportant aspect that it is rather silly to make it such a high-profile character on any level, much less one that has a legacy for the audience.

When it comes to a "prequel" of any kind, by default there has to be some kind of tie in with the later characters we got to know. But closing the galaxy in so tight gives this whole thing more of a soap-opera feel than a sweeping galactic saga. Fett is one problem. Ani creating 3PO is another. You mentioned the Greedo thing (yeah, it's out, but he did consider it). If Chewy does show up in III, that'll be another. God forbid we see lil' Han.

The problem is that despite how "beloved" some of those characters were to fans and non-fans alike, apart from 3PO on one level, they were really all just side characters introduced to move our heros along on the bigger journey. Han and Chewy popped in to get Luke from point A to point B. He had a gun so he came back at the climax to save the hero. (This was when saw how much Luke positively affected Han's character arc from being the cold killer in the Cantina pre-Special Edition when he finally cares enough to risk death to save a friend). Fett just popped in as a dark mysterious character who facilitates getting Luke into Vader's hands. Greedo was just a character to help show who Han was at that moment so that his return at the climax would be an actual surprise as his character arc began to develop.

Bottom line is these kinds of characters enter the story only when absolutely necessary to advance the plot. Anything else is needless pandering to what George thinks is fan desire.

Tycho
02-01-2004, 11:36 AM
Stillakid: it is a myth or a fairlytale, or a "space opera" as I've long heard SW referred to since even the 70's.

The characters are put against a "real looking sort of galaxy," - that's true, but the coincidences and journeys the characters make are all like those of a cast in an epic like the Wizard of Oz.

Little Han Solo should be in Episode 3, as an 11 year old trainee of a new group of Clones, based on the next genetic donor AFTER JANGO, and he should make a moral choice to not follow an evil order, and be forced to run away from his home with the Clones.

He won't have a name, but just some TK-421 number, but say some kind of classic Solo line like "Maybe you'd like it back in your cell, Your Highness?"

It will demonstrate a basic SW theme: that YOU determine your own destiny. For 3 movies we heard Luke being TOLD what his destiny is:

"You must confront Darth Vader."
"It is unavoidable. You like your father, are now mine!"

But Luke chooses a new path - he won't kill his father, and his love, not his Jedi powers, return Anakin Skywalker from the Dark Side.

That is not what Obi-Wan or the Emperor had "designed for him."

If Han's design is to be one of the new traitorous Clones, he certainly "do(es) what one persons tells me: ME!"

And while Fett watches his father's line get wiped out in the Clone Wars, he only naturally resents the "replacement workers," - Han's brothers-amongst-clones.

IT IS POETIC WRITING - typical of mythology, a fairy tale or odyssey, and no, not so "real" as you'd prefer it, Stillakid.

But I think George sees Star Wars differently than you ever saw it (or how you want it to be). Since you base your desires on what you thought about the saga mostly after ANH and ESB, this is understandable.

Take The Wizard of Oz for example. I don't know the story that well, but my hazy recollection is that the Tin Man, the Lion, the Scarecrow, they all achieved something they needed from the journey, and they fulfilled their coincidental purpose in the story, too. Right? Well, ANH and ESB were just the start of delving into the SW mythology.

If you used the Wizard of Oz for example, and it was divided into 6 movies, and you only saw Dorthy meet the Lion, Scarecrow, and Tin Man, and continue on their journey, you'd see Dorthy's universe as only about her, and think that the other characters just added to her environment. But as you know, that's not how it turned out. Perhaps you'd want that story to be different too, to make it more real.

But Star Wars is a modern myth to begin with, so the other characters' appearances to play parts of significance (or seeming coincidence) should not be a surprise to you.

Before they ever saw TPM, on the VHS releases of the Special Editions, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher both relate to the audience in their "interviews" in the prologue part, that SW is a modern myth "made with scotch tape and popcycle sticks" as Mark put it. It envelopes you more because it looks so real, but it is a fairy tale about Anakin's family and a pantheon of heroes, just like in Greek Mythology, Japanese Mythology, etc. that all play coincidental roles to tell a story.

Lando Calrissian might remain the last key player to be "random," in the SW galaxy - it is a mistake to leave Han that way - with such a writing opportunity for his character to come full-circle. But Lando could be a relative of Typho's, or more interestingly, another type of Clone Trooper as well if they want to fully embrace this concept with the lead characters. So even if Lando were also a Clone-type, it wouldn't upset me.

And I'll stop because I know I'm driving you nuts Stillakid. Just relax. Maybe Star Wars "isn't real."

2-1B
02-01-2004, 12:13 PM
When it comes to a "prequel" of any kind, by default there has to be some kind of tie in with the later characters we got to know. But closing the galaxy in so tight gives this whole thing more of a soap-opera feel than a sweeping galactic saga. Fett is one problem.

Here's where I disagree. :)
We didn't get to know Boba Fett, he's just there. Bounty Hunters seem to roam the galaxy looking for a well paying gig. Boba came from somewhere and it's not a stretch that his father was also in the business. I just think that everything was crafted well enough that it served the story.

We got to know Greedo a little bit and yes it is definitely goofy to drop him in TPM. I think it is much different than Fett. In Greedo's case, the deleted scene shows Anakin scrapping with a youngster who will grow up and eventually be shot to death by Anakin's future son-in-law.

With Fett, we see Jango serve as a strong story element. He dies and his kid grows up to follow in his footsteps. That's it. If he goes on to become a good BH, then of course he will show up on the Executer when Vader calls in the best in the business. I'm hoping that we will not see Boba in Episode III. If he is in it and he runs around seeking revenge on the Jedi (as some people want to see), then I will feel that it is getting a bit cheap.

stillakid
02-01-2004, 02:27 PM
Here's where I disagree. :)
We didn't get to know Boba Fett, he's just there. Bounty Hunters seem to roam the galaxy looking for a well paying gig. Boba came from somewhere and it's not a stretch that his father was also in the business.


Yes exactly, but it wasn't only unnecessary to show the origin of the family trade, but it is detrimental precisely because of your very own first sentence above. The character entered the story (ESB) for a specific reason and that was it. A HUGE part of what made him cool and unique and loved is that sense of mystery regarding where he came from and who he really was under there. And POOF! just like that, by gratuitously introducing Jango and Son, Bounty Hunters at Large, that large element which made the ESB Fett so cool was obliterated. And for what? So audiences could look up on screen and get that momentary sense of glee? Was it worth it?

Kidhuman
02-01-2004, 02:39 PM
Yes exactly, but it wasn't only unnecessary to show the origin of the family trade, but it is detrimental precisely because of your very own first sentence above. The character entered the story (ESB) for a specific reason and that was it. A HUGE part of what made him cool and unique and loved is that sense of mystery regarding where he came from and who he really was under there. And POOF! just like that, by gratuitously introducing Jango and Son, Bounty Hunters at Large, that large element which made the ESB Fett so cool was obliterated. And for what? So audiences could look up on screen and get that momentary sense of glee? Was it worth it?


UMmmmmmmmmmm......to me it was. I enjoyed learnig where and how he got into the business. It was better than reading it in some awful EU novel, that would have no part in "the world according to G. Lu". It was farbetter then the whole Dengar story of Han causing him to be the way he is IMO. I will agree and say that Greedo was totally uncalled for, but it was still cool. At least they could of given him a differrent name, but kept it in the Rodian family. Almost similar to Beedo, in ROTJ.

Boba Fett was worked into the whole storyline quite nice. His dad was used to make a Clone Army, and as a Bounty Hunter, being alone was a fact. He had a son made specificcally for carrying on the family name and being taught the family trade. So kudo's to Lucas on this one.

2-1B
02-01-2004, 10:13 PM
Yes exactly, but it wasn't only unnecessary to show the origin of the family trade, but it is detrimental precisely because of your very own first sentence above. The character entered the story (ESB) for a specific reason and that was it. A HUGE part of what made him cool and unique and loved is that sense of mystery regarding where he came from and who he really was under there. And POOF! just like that, by gratuitously introducing Jango and Son, Bounty Hunters at Large, that large element which made the ESB Fett so cool was obliterated. And for what? So audiences could look up on screen and get that momentary sense of glee? Was it worth it?

Nahhhh, in my experiences with Fett Fetish Holders, that "HUGE" part that made him cool and unique was literally his armor and how it looked. The mystery came after they were already hooked on his "look" and not on what drove the character or how he ended up there. :)

stillakid
02-01-2004, 11:59 PM
Nahhhh, in my experiences with Fett Fetish Holders, that "HUGE" part that made him cool and unique was literally his armor and how it looked. The mystery came after they were already hooked on his "look" and not on what drove the character or how he ended up there. :)


Ahh, good. Then why, praytell, didn't Lucas follow up properly on the Mandalorian lore and give the fanboys absolute hordes of "Fett-like" attired Mandalorians on a rampage against the Jedi? Crikey, instead of seeing just another one guy with the suit, we'd all get thousands! So don't get me wrong, it's not like I didn't want to see the suit again (because I too think it's pretty spiffy) but I would have preferred to see it within the proper and expected context that George himself hinted at so long ago.

JediTricks
02-02-2004, 01:40 AM
Obi Wan's more relaxed attitude throughout AOTC is the single example of this off-the-cuff style you speak of above. Aside from the pretty pictures, it counts as one of the only things that makes AOTC watchable for me. While everyone else delivers their poor dialogue in strained monotones, Ewan managed to finally bring actual life to his character after having been confined in TPM. That's how my mom felt when she saw the film (and she didn't like the film for those curious). I personally didn't really feel it with Ewan in AOTC except in a few cute spots, more like that "true Obi-Wan attitude" making cameos in 2 or 3 little pieces throughout an otherwise off-note character.


Natalie is really a very fine actress and George is wasting her potential.I felt Nat was the best character of TPM, but terrible in AOTC, and I can't figure out if it's the writing, the directing, or the talent who is at fault here (or a combo platter). I can't point to one moment in AOTC where her performance works for me.



Jedi are not supposed to show emotions or make saracastic comments (cynacism is an attitude based on emotion). Qui-Gon was supposed to be very stoic, but there are moments, like when he winks at Anakin or says "well perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him." But for the most part he is reserved, and he also seems to know what he is doing.Where do you get that interpretation from? Even with broad strokes, when you look at the films in cinematic order (as opposed to canon order), Obi-Wan is a balance between his calm business-y side and his emotional witty side. Yoda is even more of this than Ben, he is sardonic, crass, taunting, impatient, frustrated, hopeful and even jokey in ESB all while showing Luke how to be a Jedi.


Characters that are younger and more unsure of themselves say the sarcastic stuff: "You were right master. The negotiations were short." - Obi-Wan had no idea what to expect from the Trade Federation as evidenced by other dialogue.What about this AOTC moment?

ANAKIN: We came to rescue you, Master.
OBI-WAN: (looking at his shackled wrists) Good job.

(probably my favorite moment in the film)


Han Solo uses sarcasm to mask fear. What?!? Did you see the same ANH as the rest of us? I'm not seeing that one, you seem to be reading more into this character than is there, in fact, I'd say most of the time Han's sardonic comments are out of cockiness or frustration and he's almost NEVER afraid.


KH, the lack-of-chemistry issue bothers me more from Obi-Wan & Anakin than it does with Ani & his older love-bride. I didn't even feel invested in the Ani love story for 1 second, so I guess it didn't matter to me one way or the other whether or not there was chemistry because it seems like the writing there didn't have any juice anyway.


Caesar & Stilla, I would say you're both right about Lucas dropping Fett into Ep 2, it was done to satisfy fan demand AND to fill the donor issue in Lucas' clone story (which IMO doesn't really make any sense anyway but that's me). The only thing I think that doesn't work there is how cut and dried the Boba Fett character is made by having Jango be his daddy - Boba's not mysterious anymore, just another kid in the SW universe who grew up at exactly within the short span of time as the Empire and is angry about his dad being killed. Having Boba be a little kid who loves his daddy didn't work for me on any level - the kid storyline isn't given depth, just the "cute kid loses parent and goes bad" element that we already got in the previous prequel. And yet, Jango's backstory is pretty much a void and yet I don't think he's mysterious at all because his deeds and motivations on-screen pretty much tell his listless story to me, and it's not as interesting as it should be. With Boba, Lucas wanted to minimalistically capture a feeling of Clint Eastwood's "The Man with No Name" character and succeeded for the most part, but with Jango Lucas tried to weave this pseudo-complex daddy persona into a basic gunfighter character and didn't pull it off because with these secondary characters, often more is less (and of course, vice-versa).

2-1B
02-02-2004, 11:40 AM
Ahh, good. Then why, praytell, didn't Lucas follow up properly on the Mandalorian lore and give the fanboys absolute hordes of "Fett-like" attired Mandalorians on a rampage against the Jedi? Crikey, instead of seeing just another one guy with the suit, we'd all get thousands! So don't get me wrong, it's not like I didn't want to see the suit again (because I too think it's pretty spiffy) but I would have preferred to see it within the proper and expected context that George himself hinted at so long ago.

I don't know why he didn't go that route. The fact that he didn't says to me that his use of the characters to satisfy fanboys was in fact limited. I never bought into that EU Mandalore silliness so I'm not going to hold him to any hints he might have made. I'm just glad it didn't end up that way. :D



JT,
One of the things I like about Boba is that it's not a case of "cute kid loses parent and goes bad" because he didn't go bad after his dad died; he already was bad (maybe I am taking your quote too literally, if so I apologize). I think that actually adds to Boba's overall character because it really does make him a gray character. In ESB he's a "bad guy" because he's screwing with our heroes but really it's the only life he's ever known.

I have a question for you, this is not meant to be sarcastic or sardonic but an honest question.
Why the heck do you even own AOTC? :crazed:
I ask because a few pages back, you said that you watched it again and felt ashamed. That's pretty strong. Personally I don't own any movies which cause me shame :D so I'm curious as to why. From what I've read over the years, you disliked this movie from the beginning so I don't think you have really soured on it after first liking it. Stillakid was fooled by its candy coatings but you weren't. :D

Tycho
02-02-2004, 12:46 PM
JT makes some valid points about sarcasm in the original trilogy Jedi Masters.

As to Fett:

There were no movie references to armies of Mandalorians EVER. This originally came from Marvel comics. Since this bit of information is never on screen, anything you guys attribute of this information to George Lucas must have come from a Bantha Tracks or Starlog Magazine interview - something like that.

He might have said, there once were armies of Mandalorians (possibly during the Clone Wars) and Boba Fett is all that is left of these once great warriors.

With AOTC as it's been shown so far, that rings true:

The blaster-reflective plastoid armor, and multi-optioned utility gear, style with T-visors, are characteristic of Mandalorians.

By getting himself cloned, Jango Fett created 1.2 million of these soldiers, and they do seem to be far more effective than Stormtroopers.

In that the Clones are copies of Jango, the Clones ARE a Mandalorian army. Stormtroopers later borrow their armor and accessory styles to a degree - but perhaps the uniforms change when there are no longer any real Clones of Jango left - hence no real Mandalorians left.

Dark Horse Comics in "Jango Fett: Open Season" elaborates on all the other stuff (Jaster Mureel, Concord Dawn, the Death Watch) and does it nicely for those interested in the old-school pure version of what Marvel lead us to believe the Mandalorians were.

By the way, all of you making comments are only debating whether 80's EU is more cannon than 21st century EU. And if for some reason you sincerely think the 80's (non-Lucas stuff) is THAT valid, you'll sign a petition to have Jaxxon, the giant, pink, talking bunny rabbit (and later friend of Han Solo) be put into Episode 3 so we can see "The Hopper" his great, little starship in action?

Lucas may have pandered to Fett fans, but he did it brilliantly.

I have a habit of resenting what's over-popular for some reason. A Han Solo fan, I hated Fett for tracking Han and surprising him on Bespin. I never got into the pop-culture and thought a character that was never written for (never developed) was stupid to over-glorify just because he looked cool. Jango's story made me totally interested in the Fetts - from the perspective of a non-fan prior to that.

As to the prequels, by their very nature, they are supposed to connect the dots, fill in the pasts of characters we already know.

Obviously:

Anakin / Vader
whoever was Luke and Leia's mom (Padme)
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Palpatine
(Luke and Leia, to a very small degree, if you pardon the pun)


and that's really it. So a new set of movies is going to REQUIRE new characters to work with.

From the OT, we have a few more to work with:

Han Solo - is a main character, and I subscribe to the Star Wars-as-mythology thought camp, so I think we should see his origins (and why I propone the new-kind-of-Clone theory).

Chewbacca looks like he's going to get a bit showing, and we'll see why he has Rebel or Jedi sympathies, but he's really too old to go into his full backstory where we've learned he fought to end slavery for his devotion to his love, his future wife, Mallatabuck (Malla). It would be cool if she were one of the Wookiees in E3, but I've heard nothing about that, and they wouldn't be married yet. You just need a light tan-furreed female Wookiee with an interest in Chewie, and vice-versa. Romance does move characters' motivations along, why does it always have to be human romance in these movies? I mean not a story in detail, just give him a cause to fight for that's consistant with his history.

Lando Calrissian - there are 3-4 black characters of significance in the prequel trilogy. Mace Windu is the least likely that Lando's related to, since Mace is a Jedi Master and a serious one at that. Panaka and Typho are already related, Uncle and Nephew, so it would be a pattern that's getting ridiculous if Lando is Naboo. However, it wouldn't ruin the story. There is another Naboo: Bravo-3 or 2, whatever his call sign was. Random, but I think the character has already been named in the EU, and it wasn't Calrissian. Finally, and more originally, and creating another level of bonding with Han Solo, Lando could be another (3rd kind) of Clone refugee and that would explain some of his lack of fear of Boba Fett, and his abilities as a hero (he fought down stormtroopers, didn't he?)

Jabba the Hutt - he's pretty 2-dimensional, if you look past his physical attributes. Just a crime boss. That's it. There's really nothing for Jabba to do. He's already established his power in TPM, and the ANH special edition footage shows nicely that he's into some shady deals and has Han as one of his drug smugglers (bad CGI aside). Plus Jabba is 4-600 years old, I forget, so it's like Yoda - you can't give him the "young, growing up treatment."


Boba Fett is almost the last remaining character of general interest to see the origins from. It is a very logical step to use him, as he outshines the other bounty hunters.

IG-88 is getting his prequel story in the Clone Wars cartoon.

Bossk might be interesting, and has his fan base.

Dengar is fleshed out in the EU (uh literally), and 4-LOM and Zuckuss are not that interesting.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Last OT characters that could have backstories be deemed "necessary" but are less colorful than Fett's:

Bail Organa - started in AOTC (important at least to Alderaan being destroyed)

Tarkin - in E3, his backstory's told in EU, references to Eriadu, idustrial planet, Lt. Governor there, millitary defense commander, etc.

Mon Mothma - in E3

Jan Dodanna - ? (was a Republic Star Destroyer commander once. They could use him as the firefighting ship's captain.)

General Rieekan -? (possibly too young, but would be Alderaanian Security)

Captain Antilles - ? (ditto)

Madine -? (was an Imperial Commander in the Corellian System)

Ackbar - ? (Mon Cal under the Quarren, were CIS. Under Cals? Civil War's not over there yet)

Ozzel - ? (was probably a Republic commander - too young to be anything but insignificant to the prequels. He'd be Anakin's age).

Piett - ditto

Veers - ditto

Needa - ditto

Jerjerrod - ditto


Garven Dreis (Red Leader) - again, it'd be pretty cool, but insignificant. He'd be about Anakin's age, as a cut line from ANH was once supposed to be that he'd flown with Luke's father. If Garven Dreis is the firefighter ship captain or crew member, that would be very, very cool!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Several EU characters could make a good addition:

Prince Xizor - Black Sun and a large - Non-Hutt crime syndicate might be needed, or wealthy backers of Palpatine.

Thrawn - will be like a Lt. Commander because of his age. May not be significant at all, so a waste for a cameo that will be only regarded as fan pandering.

Mara Jade - shouldn't even be born yet. She's 2 years younger than Luke by most accounts.

Garm Bel Ibis - the Corellian Senator - BEST CHOICE FOR PREQUEL APPEARANCE BY EU CHARACTER. According to EU lore, Corellia, Alderaan, and Chandrilla (Mon Mothma's homeworld) formed the core of the opposition to Palpatine in the Senate and later in the Rebel Alliance. Bel Ibis' appearance in the movies wouldn't offend anyone I'm sure.

Quinlan Vos - just another Jedi for an arena fight, his appearance would please comic fans and that would be cool, but it doesn't have any impact on the story or issue of putting in EU characters whether he's there or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

But anyway, what I'm getting to is that Boba Fett is the most interesting of all of these characters to flesh out. And they have to use some or most of them.

Again, the entire prequel cast without totally brand new characters we'd never heard of would be:

Anakin/Vader
Luke and Leia as babies
their mother, as they had to come from someone (Padme)
Obi-Wan
Yoda
Palpatine

and that's too small of cast!


STILLAKID that's why the prequels gave us new characters we never heard of before:

Darth Maul
Qui-Gon Jinn
Darth Tyranus / Count Dooku
JarJar Binks
Jango Fett
Nute Gunray
Mace Windu

to name the big players. You add 4 bad guys, so you have to add some good guys, and why not have them be Jedi while there are Jedi alive to have the opportunity, hence: Qui-Gon. Makes perfect sense.

stillakid
02-02-2004, 01:37 PM
As to Fett:

There were no movie references to armies of Mandalorians EVER. This originally came from Marvel comics. Since this bit of information is never on screen, anything you guys attribute of this information to George Lucas must have come from a Bantha Tracks or Starlog Magazine interview - something like that.

He might have said, there once were armies of Mandalorians (possibly during the Clone Wars) and Boba Fett is all that is left of these once great warriors.


You're going to force me to go dig through all my old articles and stuff, aren't you? ;)

Yes, I know it wasn't onscreen. However, I do distinctly recall George saying (via an article or something of the sort) that Boba Fett's armor was pieced together from parts of the Mandalorian armor. In the same breath was an explanation that the Mandalorians were one of the groups that helped take down the Jedi and Republic. What this meant was that this guy Boba took only some of the suit/armor and the rest of what he was wearing was booty from his many adventures. He may or may not have been a Mandolorian himself.

(Complete conjecture now on my part, but it would have made for a more meaningful "nemesis" relationship between Boba and Han had Boba just been another disaffected rogue like Solo was portrayed to be. Both wound up living on the onskirts of society...Solo as a smuggler, Boba as a Bounty Hunter. Flip sides of the same coin. For two supporting characters, this concept has waaaayyyyy more appeal and meaning than making Boba be just another kid out for revenge. )

So, for someone like me who actually remembered this stuff, imagine my surprise when seeing Jango for the first time looking almost exactly like Boba Fett. The entire costume is identical except for those Wookie braids and maybe the color a little bit. Heck, Jango is a clone of Boba!. Anyhow, as said, I thought that it was more than unnecessary to write in Boba's history in this way and George's original idea (to have Mandolorian's rise up against the Republic) would have been a far far better way to go. It would have given the saga a far more epic scope as we would have seen just how far reaching the discontent with the Republic had gone. Instead, we're just travelling around Mayberry RFD checkin' in on ol' Jango to see what he 'er shot himself fer dinner tonite. :ermm:

Kidhuman
02-02-2004, 02:17 PM
Okay, if you look at your POTF2 Boba Fett(OC) you will notice his green coloring on his breast plate. NOw look at Jango Fett Pilot. You will notice it is Silver/Blue. Therefore it leads us to deduct that:

A: he did in fact piece his armor together or
B: he just painted his Dads old Armor or
C: the figures are just wrong.

Darth Jax
02-02-2004, 06:11 PM
Boba is a clone of jango as we've seen. that doesn't make him a kid out for revenge. boba makes a brief appearance in each of the OT films. in ANH he merely accompanies jabba to his meeting with solo. in ESB accepts an assignment for a bounty from vader (knowing that jabba has a bounty out on solo as well), a potential double payday. he simply wants solo, the bounty, and doesn't bother leia or chewie both wanted by the empire and allied with the rebel alliance. he either is not aware of the fact luke is force-positive or simply doesn't care, we don't know. in ROTJ boba is again with jabba who has boba on retainer. again boba lets a known jedi walk freely around jabba's palace and makes no threats against him. only when luke attempts to free himself (and boba's former bounty - han) does boba become involved. i don't see any motivated solely by revenge here. he's a bounty hunter content to stay on the sidelines until there's profit to be made, exactly what you would expect from someone who is a unaltered clone of the 'greatest' bounty hunter of his time.

hopefully in ep 3 boba will make only a brief cameo appearance, merely to explain his whereabouts during the destruction of the republic and the rise of the empire. boba is much to young to play much a part.

JediTricks
02-02-2004, 09:20 PM
One of the things I like about Boba is that it's not a case of "cute kid loses parent and goes bad" because he didn't go bad after his dad died; he already was bad (maybe I am taking your quote too literally, if so I apologize). I think that actually adds to Boba's overall character because it really does make him a gray character. In ESB he's a "bad guy" because he's screwing with our heroes but really it's the only life he's ever known.That's not what I got out of the character in AOTC, he seemed to be a regular "cute kid" who is a little naughty because his dad is a paid killer, but more happy-go-lucky than "bad". Maybe that's the fault of the writing or directing or talent, but that's how it comes off to me, Boba Fett isn't dark and mean, he's just "yup, dad, Taun We's here!" and all cutesified like that. I think Jake Lloyd played a disturbed child before he played Anakin and that is the performance that I would think would be believable as young "bad" Boba.



I have a question for you, this is not meant to be sarcastic or sardonic but an honest question.
Why the heck do you even own AOTC? :crazed:
I ask because a few pages back, you said that you watched it again and felt ashamed. That's pretty strong. Personally I don't own any movies which cause me shame :D so I'm curious as to why. From what I've read over the years, you disliked this movie from the beginning so I don't think you have really soured on it after first liking it. Stillakid was fooled by its candy coatings but you weren't. That's a good question. When TPM was released, I saw it a lot in theaters - nearly a dozen times -partially because I was curious to see the little stuff I had missed in other viewings, and I wanted to experience it again to try to see why other SW fans were liking it, and also after that, there were the 2 digital screenings here in LA so I went to each to review the digital presentation for SSG and the first digital presentation DLP was so impressive that I eventually went back a few weeks later. So I felt I had thoroughly experienced it by the time it came out on home video and only bought the tapes for the collectibles they came with (because, as I've mentioned before, I'm a sucker ;)).

However, with Ep 2, I only saw it in theaters 3 times: opening day at the Chinese, SW's 25th anniversary at my incredible neighborhood independent theater, and the last day of the IMAX version. As a completist however, I felt there may be more in there that I'd want to experience and if I didn't get it on DVD now, I may never get the chance when some day I do want it, so I caved and bought it.


Tycho, please be more careful about spoilers in the future.

Also, take into account that Captain Typho isn't black, the actor is Samoan. Make of that what you will.

I believe Bravo 2 was the female Naboo Fighter pilot, so the other guy would be Bravo 3 I guess.


Differences between Boba Fett and Jango Fett's outfits:
- different colors and markings
- Boba has 2nd belt with pouches / Jango has 2nd twin-holster belt
- different thigh and shin guards
- different shoulderpads
- different boots
- Boba has wookiee scalps (or my theory that they're Padawan braids) / Jango doesn't
- different weapons
That's all I can think of.

Tycho
02-02-2004, 10:11 PM
I'd like to hear peoples' comments about this:





But anyway, what I'm getting to is that Boba Fett is the most interesting of all of these characters to flesh out. And they have to use some or most of them.

Again, the entire prequel cast without totally brand new characters we'd never heard of would be:

Anakin/Vader
Luke and Leia as babies
their mother, as they had to come from someone (Padme)
Obi-Wan
Yoda
Palpatine

and that's too small of cast!


STILLAKID that's why the prequels gave us new characters we never heard of before:

Darth Maul
Qui-Gon Jinn
Darth Tyranus / Count Dooku
JarJar Binks
Jango Fett
Nute Gunray
Mace Windu

to name the big players. You add 4 bad guys, so you have to add some good guys, and why not have them be Jedi while there are Jedi alive to have the opportunity, hence: Qui-Gon. Makes perfect sense.

stillakid
02-02-2004, 11:38 PM
I'd like to hear peoples' comments about this:


You state that Lucas had to use the OT background characters, Fett being the most interesting one to you. My question to the first statement is "why?" Why is it necessary to bring up secondary characters in a history lesson? Like Sebulba, or Max Rebo, or Taun We, or Admiral Ozzel, or a whole host of other secondary characters, they enter the story when, and only when, absolutely necessary, they do their job, then they're done. Why belabor their existence? There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

Tycho
02-03-2004, 12:18 AM
OK, I'm reminded that this is a spoiler-free thread. So we'll walk on eggshells here:

with regards to at least 1 controversial character (because of what he is, and how sort of silly his name is) we have to add one more character into the story in Episode 3.

Why not use something from the pantheon of established characters versus creating another "Darth Maul one-movie-wonder?"

Fett is that interesting and he's been elevated far above say Momaw Nadon, but why not use him:

"In Episode 3, during battle with the Separatists, Momaw Nadon's favorite tree is burnt down. A vengeful militant environmentalist, he teams up with the Jedi to fly them around to punish the Seppies." This is because, growing up, Momaw's mother and father (Hehaw, and Hohaw Nadon) taught him how to raise that tree from when it was only a seedling, and as part of his coming of age ceremony, he took a vow to protect it and he failed. This will explain how he ends up exiled in the Mos Eisley cantina, etc. etc.

Does anyone care? (well, I shed a tear thinking about the little tree...but anyway....)

Boba Fett was the right choice and while it might have likely been because of fan pandering, the story flows seamlessly and believably, and rather enjoyably.

And JediTricks, I said they were padawan braids a long time ago - since around the time we first saw those braids in TPM - I wondered about them and if Fett collected them from his kills (if they would bring Fett into the story, etc. etc.) So I think Fett killing Jedi was conceived of at LEAST as early as when George designed the hairstyles for TPM)

By the way - side note: most likely - the Jedi grows the pony tail in the back to be cut off when he becomes a Master. When a new apprentice is indoctrinated, the ponytail is cut off and becomes a braid, woven into the Jedi padawan's longer braid, which he then has a record of his Master, and his Master before him. In other words, I think Anakin's braid has some of Obi-Wan's and Qui-Gon's hair in it, possibly even Dooku's. This tradition is likely limited to just their Jedi line, as Mace can't really do it - and Plo Koon, Sirch Fi Eek, Yarael Poof, and many others are lost causes when it comes to Rogain. So I think it is just something specific to Dooku's line, and maybe a few others'.

2-1B
02-03-2004, 01:17 AM
Tycho has a point there. :D I'll take another Fett anyday over he who shall not be named.

JT, thanks for the clarification re: your shame over AOTC. :)
As for lil Boba, I know what you mean about him beng cute like that but what I had in mind was the way he fired up the Slave I's guns and fired at Obi-Wan. Then later on he cheers on his dad to kill Obi-Wan in the asteroid chase.
He seems really innocent as he seeks another man's death . . . so what's why I see him as gray because he grew up that way.

stillakid
02-03-2004, 09:37 PM
Why not use something from the pantheon of established characters versus creating another "Darth Maul one-movie-wonder?"



You're doing the old local news trick wherein when they shoot a freeway car chase for hours on end, they then use the ratings to justify their doing it. Well, people wouldn't watch it if they had something else to watch. Right?

So, in the same vein, you're operating from the standpoint that there has to be another "bad guy." The result for you is, that since there has to be a bad guy like that, it might as well be a Fett character because he was A) established and B) beloved.

First off, there didn't have to be a "known" host as DNA donor for this Clone Army. Except for providing the aforementioned cheap thrill, the only story value it had was in leading Obi Wan to Kamino. (which itself was silly, because that trips purpose was to get the Jedi to pull the Clones out of their hives so that they would engage the Separatists in a battle which would start the war that Dooku speaks of to Sideous at the very end of the story. Palpatines entire scheme relied on dumb-f'ing luck, nothing more.)

But anything could have been used to get the Jedi to find out about the Clones. It didn't have to be a bounty hunter and it most certainly didn't have to be a Fett. Therefore, it stands to reason that the only motivation behind including the Fett Family Singers was to satisfy this phantom fan desire to see the origin and history of the beloved OT secondary character. The fact that it was a Fett added absolutely nothing special to the story relative to who or what he was. ANYBODY could have filled that role so long as he/it had a gun.

But that's a step ahead of where we really need to be. The space that that character filled wasn't necessary in the first place. There was absolutely no need for another bad guy. It's bad enough we got Maul (and then have him killed off in his first episode), but the addition of another (Dooku), and yet another (Grevious) is downright laughable. And that's just in the primary plot. You want to add another (Fett) as a minor character as well. That's four (4) bad guys in the space of three films. You could toss in the Nemodians and Sebulba as well if you're feeling generous. But according to those who love the Prequels dearly is that this is a story about Anakin. Following the same train of thought that this is being constructed with the knowledge that the audience already knows what happens to him, isn't him being the bad guy enough? Why the need to drop in one more...or 4? Isn't the story strong enough to stand on it's own with just one plotline following the downfall of a hero turned evil? Well, it might be if that was what we had, but being that Hayden-Anakin isn't that sort of character, the story isn't strong enough for him to carry the saga in that way so I guess it is necessary for Lucas to drop in as many bad guys as possible. Maybe he figured that it would make enough visual confusion to distract the audience away from the superficialness of the Anakin storyline. Who knows. Bottom line is that Fett wasn't necessary no matter what in the context that Lucas wrote him in. sigh.

2-1B
02-04-2004, 01:21 AM
So much for that spoiler warning. :D

Tycho
02-04-2004, 01:37 AM
Well, this is not a spoiler, because it's my speculative plot device:

If Dooku would turn out to be Anakin's father, then he'll have a great purpose and help be a catalyst towards Anakin's turn.

That's the route I'd go if I were writing this.

As to your analogy that people watch freeway car chases because there's nothing else on, and that's why people like Fett: well people already like both Fett and freeway car chases, so if it works, use it.

I think that establishing the Mandalorian history with Fett's origins explained a little more is very cool, and adds to his appearance in ESB (and now ANH).

Adding anyone else to be the source of the Clones does create another character - exactly what you're criticizing with Maul and so on.

Also, Anakin as Vader is not the typical Sith Apprentice. He has a hidden agenda of course - and I think there's a lot to it.

Maul was shown to demonstrate what a Sith Master-Apprentice relationship should be like.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were shown as to demonstrate how the Jedi should work, and then we see where Anakin is different and doesn't fit in either role:

He fails to become a Jedi and eventually almost slays his Master. He fails to fully embrace the Sith, and actually does slay his Sith Master.

Since I like spending a lot of time in the galaxy far, far away, Lucas spelling it all out for me like that is greatly appreciated. I'd like the 3 hour film versus the 1/2 hour they could tell Anakin's whole story in if they really skinned it down (look at what they do in the CW cartoon show!).

But the more, the better. And I really do love what they did with Attack of the Clones!

2-1B
02-04-2004, 02:22 AM
Tycho, I was talking about stillakid. :D

I think it's cool how the Mandalorians really do play a huge part in the Fall of the Republic as their clones are used for warfare.

Of course, that's assuming Jango really is a Mandalore.

Ah, who the hell cares . . . :crazed:

AOTC is great, I'm watching it again tomorrow. Maybe I'll sit down with a pen and paper to take more notes. I'll be sure to inscribe them here. :crazed:

stillakid
02-04-2004, 10:39 AM
Adding anyone else to be the source of the Clones does create another character - exactly what you're criticizing with Maul and so on.

But my point is that it doesn't (and didn't) matter who the donor was. That was an issue that never had to be elaborated because in the end, it didn't matter one bit even though it was. The story just as easily could have had a clone army with no mention as to who the donor was. It could have been some schlep transient the Kaminians picked up somewhere. Doesn't matter. There is nothing inherently special in the Fett character that was elaborated on in the Clones that made him the necessary choice. In fact, they modified the genes anyhow furthering proving that Jango as an individual wasn't special in any sort of way. They changed the code anyhow. If he had, say, 4 arms or eyes in the back of his head or built-in "Wolverine"-like scissorhands, then yeah, he'd have some special attributes and it would make sense to use that kind of guy as a clone template. But as it stands, the film itself tells us that Jango is "...just a simple man, trying to make my way in the universe..." Right. You said it Jango. Why are you here?

JediTricks
02-04-2004, 09:54 PM
And JediTricks, I said they were padawan braids a long time ago - since around the time we first saw those braids in TPM - I wondered about them and if Fett collected them from his kills (if they would bring Fett into the story, etc. etc.) So I think Fett killing Jedi was conceived of at LEAST as early as when George designed the hairstyles for TPM)Dude, I said this before TPM even came out when we first heard about these silly braids, too bad the old UBB forums are offline or I could show you the exact post where you most likely read it. :p ;)


Caesar, I figured that's the stuff you meant about young Boba, but I don't think we saw bloodlust in the kid's eyes when he ws doing his "get him dad" stuff or shooting at Obi-Wan, he was all happy and cute despite the context of his actions. He was more like Jango's happy peppy puppy dog, just because you take away the dog's master doesn't mean it's now hardwired going to go bad.

Tycho
02-05-2004, 12:07 AM
If we use that analogy: He's a pitbull. It's only a matter of time.

JediTricks
02-05-2004, 09:34 PM
I dunno, that seems pretty weak to me, pitbulls have to be conditioned over generations to snap and go nuts, and even then, only by being mistreated do pitbulls usually go bad. You don't take a happy peppy puppy pitbull and raise it in a happy, pleasant, loving environment and when it turns 3 it just starts eating children and foaming at the mouth.

The 'Xir
02-06-2004, 01:15 PM
I'm gone for a week and everyone gets delusions and granduer! You guys are killng me with these long posts, and youre lack of SW knowledge! If there is any canon outside of the movies it rests in the original books that came out just like the Phantom Menace and AOTC books did before each new movie! This is where Boba's backstory was hinted at, not in comics or magazines or anywhere else but in the book for ESB! I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not! In the book, it states that: Boba Fett wears an armoured covered space suit, similar to a race of Mandalore warriors that were defeated by the Jedi Knights during the clone wars! Notice Mandalore! Although I used the word mandalorian when I was younger it was never an established term until Kevin J Andersons usage in his EU books!
Marvel took that little blurb in the book and ran with it into the comic EU. Then either Marvel, Dark Horse Comics, or both expanded it into the whole Jaster Mareel and Concord Dawn thing! I know Dark Horse came out with that whole EU about Boba being a stormtrooper and killing his superior officer!
However, it doesn't negate the importance of what was said in the Book! See and this is maybe why I don't like AotC because I think this is where George misssed a golden opportunity! The separatist could have been made up of Mandalorian warriors, instead of all droids seeing as how Jango was recruited by a man called Tyranous/(Dooku) on the moon of Bogdon. Imagine it: ":The Mandalore have graciously lent their support so when their army is combined with your droids we'll have an army greater than any in the galaxy. The Jedi will be overwhelmed!". All this would still allow the Jedi/Republic to use the clones. It would have also made Ben's line at the end of the movie, solidify the comment about the race of mandalore being defeated by the Jedi kights ring true. "It would have not been a victory without the Clones"
I would have loved this, because there would have been that much more depth to this movie and enable Lucas to really make some twist and turns. For example how, would Jango and mainly Boba seeing as how Jango gets killed, feel about a Dooku using(betraying) his father giving up genetic material that created a race of beings that helped destroy his own people! If Palpatine blames the Jedi for the creation of the clone army, this could be a huge reason why Boba in the OT is such a grey character, because he knows the real reaosn for the demise of his people but is still angry at the Jedi 'cause they helped in killing his people and Mace killing his father! So he'd have no reason to trust either the Empire or the Rebellion!
But alas, well never know seeing as how none of this happened, In other words Lucas F'd up, and I'm PO about it! :dis: :mad:
Just to throw someting in as stilla likes to point out, I guess the mandalores could be thrown in to EpIII showing them getting defeated in an early battle that would be the Jedi's last victory before everything falls apart, but as Stilla would say it would just be thrown in to appease us fanoby types of the Fett heritage!
FETT RULES!!! :cool: "As you wish."

stillakid
02-06-2004, 09:28 PM
Just to throw someting in as stilla likes to point out, I guess the mandalores could be thrown in to EpIII showing them getting defeated in an early battle that would be the Jedi's last victory before everything falls apart, but as Stilla would say it would just be thrown in to appease us fanoby types of the Fett heritage!
FETT RULES!!! :cool: "As you wish."


Well, I don't know that I'd say that as such, but I would suggest that such an addition into Episode III would be Lucas's attempt to put a bandaid on a 12 inch puncture wound. I suspect that some of what we saw in AOTC (and some of what we didn't see) was in direct response to the feedback he received after TPM. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary then if some of the "fan" critique influences the way he handles Episode III.

Oh, and thank you for filling in those gaps in my (our) memories. :) I'm not getting any younger.

Kidhuman
02-06-2004, 09:30 PM
Oh, and thank you for filling in those gaps in my (our) memories. :) I'm not getting any younger.

But you're Stillakid to us

stillakid
02-06-2004, 09:37 PM
But you're Stillakid to us


:D Thanks. I may have to change my name though. Lately I've been feeling ...well, older. Maybe I need a vacation. That might help.

Darth Kirk
02-09-2004, 12:16 AM
Yes, I also immensely enjoyed 'Attack...'.. I can sit back and just revel about how intense the part was between Obi and Jango in the asteroid field .. The amazing eye candy and Obi's funny quips; sublime.. I do not understand the negative press though.. Yea, the dialogue and acting are always a focus, but I do not see any problem.. I enjoy these films for what they are, wonderful eye-candy entertainment with a tinge of fanaticism for the actual characters.

Tycho
02-09-2004, 01:59 AM
The Xir had made a wonderful post. Full of information and great ideas, it was as long as many of mine, and his logic was well worth reading. Nice job!

jedibear
03-20-2004, 05:25 PM
Getting back to the statement Tycho started this thread with...

I too, love "Attack of the Clones"

The prequels are working wonderfully for me. When thinking about them in relation to the classic trilogy, I always rememeber Ben's comment to Luke when giving him his fahter's lightsaber "...a weapon from a more civilized age...before the dark times...before the Empire".

Both Episode I and II are like period pieces to me (afeter all, they do take place a long time ago...). AOTC has a very painterly quality to it that adds to the drama.

Anakin & Padme's relationship is played out like a more courtly love story...something between two people that have literally no spontaneity in their lives...everything is structered. That's how it plays to me. Anakin knows he is the "chosen one"...no wonder he is so bratty and arrogant. One of my favorite moments of the (oft-depised around here) fireplace scene is that withering look he gives Padme after she says "I won't give in to this.."
Lucas has commented many times in interviews that he loves repeating motifs and I think one of the more interesting ones he'll repeat in EpIII is how Padme will realize her error in following her feelings toward Anakin and marrying him as Obi-Wan realizes his error in training Anakin (following his "oath" to Qui-Gon instead of his higher duty to the Jedi). It's complex feelings like these that help the prequels resonate so well with subsequent viewings.

I think the acting in AOTC is very good. One of the many scenes I'm drawn back to is the exchange between Jango and Obi-Wan in Jango's apartment. Quiet...menacing...understanded. Of course, everyone compliments McDarmind's perfomance as Palpy (and rightly so)...
Folks have complained alot about Natalie's performance...I think that again, she's playin it understated. Alot of her performance is about observation and reserve. Look at the scenes on Tatooine....many of the cuts to her show her witnessing Anakin's distress (and probably thinking about her own loss at the beginning of the film). Anakin is the ultimate man-child and he plays right into the hole in Padme's life...her lack of anything personal...everything's professional...duty-oriented. I think Portman plays these scenes quite well.

I still enjoy viewing AOTC...it has made subsequent viewings of EpOne richer and I can't wait until EpII comes out to tie it all together....

JEDIpartner
03-22-2004, 11:26 AM
Yeah... I'm a little late getting to the party. My faves are now ESB, ANH, AOTC, TPM and ROTJ. Yep... in that order as well! There's just something I find cool about the Old Republic and the political angle of the PT. Just about EVRYTHING blows ROTJ out of the water because of the too "happy happy" ending.

Tycho
07-08-2004, 07:02 PM
I just watched AOTC again. It was such as perfect movie to get the Clone Wars started! I love this film.

cdatkins
04-19-2005, 12:12 PM
I'm late to the party too, but I definitely love AOTC. My second favorite Star Wars film. And I loved it the first time I saw it...unlike TPM which took a few viewings to sink in...but AOTC from the very beginning "felt" more like a classic Star Wars movie.

Where it really shines is in its tone...AOTC is really about the dueling natures of Anakin Skywalker...the conflict betwee the good and evil inside him. And I think Lucas succeeding in writing Anakin as a conflicted character, tying him well to the innocent youth of TPM and linking him to the evil sith Lord of ROTS.

Omega Wren 99
04-26-2005, 10:37 PM
I have read many article that stae things like " I sure hope Ep3 redeems Lucas after EP1 & Ep2." I don't think its fair to bunch TPM with AOTC. AOTC is a much better picture than TPM. I think GL got the HUGE hint from fans after the enormous disapppointment with it.

AOTC captured much more of the feel of the original films. The sotry line that Obi-Wan carries alone is pure Star Wars.

For the record I think the movies range: ESB, AOTC, ANH, ROTJ .... (and somewhere in the distance)... TPM.

Alot is resting on Ep3. Alot of insders, cast members and spies say that this movie is going to be the best. We'll see.

stillakid
04-26-2005, 10:50 PM
TPM and AOTC are utter crap.

My favorites in order are:

1.) A New Hope
2.) Empire Strikes Back
3.) Return of the Jedi
4.) Animated Clone Wars series
5.) AOTC IMAX edit
6.) AOTC
7.) Star Wars Holiday Special
8.) The Phantom Menace

Omega Wren 99
04-26-2005, 10:52 PM
You forgot the DROIDs cartoon between 8 and 9.

PS. WHat is the IMAX edit of AOTC???

stillakid
04-26-2005, 10:59 PM
PS. WHat is the IMAX edit of AOTC???

A few months (?) after AOTC was released, an IMAX version of the movie was shown in selected IMAX theaters. Due to technical constraints, it was necessary for the movie's length to be cut. As a result, some editor somewhere was put in charge of making the edits. Among other sequences, the Megaman sequence (Anakin running amuck through the Geonosis factory) was cut down as well as the ridiculous C3PO flying through the air shot. Anakin's "bed" scene was cut along with a few other things. I'm sure there is a list lurking around somewhere.

But this was a lesson in "less is more" as AOTC suddenly became watchable for the most part. It wasn't a great movie, but it was vastly improved over the original edit.

Imperial Monarche
04-27-2005, 01:18 PM
My favorites in order are:

1.) A New Hope
2.) Empire Strikes Back
3.) Return of the Jedi
4.) Animated Clone Wars series
5.) AOTC IMAX edit
6.) AOTC
7.) Star Wars Holiday Special
8.) The Phantom Menace

How can you possibly choose ANH over TPM????!!!! After all your other posts, you are completely contridicting yourself! Come on, stilla...you're slipping! (sarcasm ending...now) Really, though, you prefer ANH over ESB? Empire was the definition of a great sequel. I will say that none of the PT so far has surpassed any of the OT, even though ROTJ was very closely matched by ATOC, but I'll have to say that ANH is not better than ESB, but of course, that's just my opinion.

stillakid
04-27-2005, 01:22 PM
How can you possibly choose ANH over TPM????!!!! After all your other posts, you are completely contridicting yourself! Come on, stilla...you're slipping! (sarcasm ending...now) Really, though, you prefer ANH over ESB? Empire was the definition of a great sequel. I will say that none of the PT so far has surpassed any of the OT, even though ROTJ was very closely matched by ATOC, but I'll have to say that ANH is not better than ESB, but of course, that's just my opinion.

Yeah, as taken as a WHOLE, ANH exceeded ESB. Sure, there are some great MOMENTS in ESB which actually outdo any of the MOMENTS in ANH, but as a WHOLE, ANH is a better all-round story and movie. :)

Jayspawn
04-27-2005, 11:43 PM
I love Attack of the Clones as well! A great film, very interesting. I really enjoy watching it and never tire. Here's some of my favorite parts...

- Obi-Wan and Jango's fight on the landing platform. Obi-Wan kicking him over the side and the look on his face "Oh not good."

- Dexter. Cool, funny character. Kinda like the trucker of the Star Wars Galaxy. I like his little mustache, and his neck how it inflates and deflates as he talks and breathes.

- Palpatine's manipulation of the Senate.

- The scene in Jango Fett's apartment between him and Obi-Wan. Their 'polite' conversation is classic!

- Padme.

- Jango's annoyed look when Mace holds his Saber to his neck.

- All the scenes with Count Dooku. Great character!

- The Battle Droid looking over at Threepio as they march out into the Arena.

Imperial Monarche
04-28-2005, 02:16 PM
I love Attack of the Clones as well! A great film, very interesting. I really enjoy watching it and never tire. Here's some of my favorite parts...

- Obi-Wan and Jango's fight on the landing platform. Obi-Wan kicking him over the side and the look on his face "Oh not good."

- Dexter. Cool, funny character. Kinda like the trucker of the Star Wars Galaxy. I like his little mustache, and his neck how it inflates and deflates as he talks and breathes.

- Palpatine's manipulation of the Senate.

- The scene in Jango Fett's apartment between him and Obi-Wan. Their 'polite' conversation is classic!

- Padme.

- Jango's annoyed look when Mace holds his Saber to his neck.

- All the scenes with Count Dooku. Great character!

- The Battle Droid looking over at Threepio as they march out into the Arena.

I agree, except for the Threepio comedy scenes. I think those are way over done and explotive of the Threepio character. It was senseless comedy. I mean, why does Threepio have to have all that action. The OT's comedy with Threepio was so much better when he constantly fought with Artoo. But, that's my only major complaint about AOTC (besides some of the worthless dialogue like most of the conversation between Anakin and Obi-Wan). Everything else, I enjoyed.

And stilla, I see what you're saying as ANH. I personally enjoyed ESB more than all the other movies when it's viewed as a saga, but I tended to always look at ANH as more of a stand alone movie and if I look at each movie as a stand alone movie, then I think that ANH is the best.

JON9000
04-28-2005, 03:55 PM
AOTC works really well when it works. Fortunately, the last 40 minutes or so work incredibly well, so it doesn't leave a bad taste.

Anakin's leap onto Padme (extraordinarily sexually charged) to slice the vermin followed by the cool speeder chase/cantina.

The whole Kamino/asteroid sequence

Anakin going after his mom- I'd been dying by that point to see a little Vader, and the scene afterward in the garage was far and away the best between H & N. The kid does the anger bit pretty well.

but when it doesn't- it's nothing short of maddenning. The most frustrating aspect of AOTC is the lack of chemistry between Hayden and Natalie. Most of those parts have a strange way of making me squirm in my seat, maybe it is the dialogue:

Grown more beautiful, I mean.

I'd be much too frightened to tease a senator

.....he'd be very grumpy

excuse me, m'lady.... (uggggggghhhhhhh)!

my heart is beating....

You are in my very soul...

All of this stuff is pretty heavy and doesn't seem to work well. It reminds me of the story Kirsh told in the Empire part of the Documentary where Han Solo's last line before being frozen was not working. Kirsh just told him to wing it and viola- one of the most memorable lines of the OT- and so cool!

I have big problems with the Droid factory, the biggest being its placement- we're an hour and a half into the movie and at this point most people are about ready for the big payoff. At least I was.

Overall, I like AOTC, but I think ROTS is just going to whup it because we'll be more emotionally engaged by the events.

MaquisWarrior
05-23-2005, 02:24 AM
I'm sorry dude. Attack of the Clones is flattered but is currently married and doesn't feel the same way about you! But cheer up, I heard SON OF THE MASK has a big crush on you and XXX:STATE OF THE UNION thinks you're cute and look better IF you lost weight and stopped slouching!

Seriously, the film was okay!

El Chuxter
12-17-2009, 04:17 PM
I love Garry Shandling. I am so stoked that he will be in Iron Man 2. More people will see him there than saw him in all his other films and TV appearances combined.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-17-2009, 05:19 PM
Did you recently log into NonSequitorPosts.communityservice, Chux? I am failing to see your connection to this thread's content right now. :confused:

El Chuxter
12-17-2009, 05:27 PM
Tycho said, "I love Attack of the Clones."

I said, "I love Garry Shandling."

I fail to see how you fail to see the relationship. They're both comments about loving something that is clearly too ludicrous to deserve real love.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-17-2009, 06:59 PM
Why doesn't Gary S. desreve love? I heard that Ludacris sent him a holiday card.

2-1B
12-17-2009, 11:23 PM
stillakid didn't rank ROTS on the previous page.

I love Bea Arthur.

Bel-Cam Jos
12-18-2009, 10:18 AM
Wait, Bea Arthur was in AOTC, too? :confused: Was that in the Outlander Club scene? And is that where the line "And I believe 'he' is a 'she'" came from? :eek: