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Darkness Shroud
06-25-2004, 01:42 PM
OMG i been lied to all this time! Sorry Guys i was sure they were to be the " originals" Oh NO:o :crazed: I hang my head in shame.:bored:

Beast
06-25-2004, 01:45 PM
OMG i benn lied to all this time! Sorry Guys i was sure they were to be the " originals" Oh NO:o :crazed:
They are still the "originals", just not the original versions. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Deoxyribonucleic
06-25-2004, 01:46 PM
Darkness Shroud, you can argue with me all ya want and you would probably win sometimes 'cause I've been known to be wrong from time to time ;) but I would NOT argue with this guy below...not on something such as this ;) :)

this is all in good fun of course :)



Then you would be 100% wrong. These are what were once known as the 'Special Editions' versions of the Original Trilogy. The 'SE' name has been dumped, because they are the only official versions that will ever be released by Lucasfilm. He doesn't consider the original cuts to be his final visions of the film. Even the SE cuts are most likely not going to be what's on the DVD's, as these will feature his new final cuts. Rumored to include some tweaked and polished lightsaber work, a redone Emperor in ESB, and other changes. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Darkness Shroud
06-25-2004, 01:48 PM
Well i kinda meant that lol I knew GL was still tinkering with them... aarrghh!! Screw it!! Why the hell does he have to mess. Sorry guys and Thanks!!:)

Darkness Shroud
06-25-2004, 01:50 PM
You win im going home!!:) As for JJB he is a legend! i aint messin'!!:)

vadersvette
06-25-2004, 04:01 PM
The boxes don't look too bad to me. And they fixed the green lightsaber mess I pointed out earlier in this thread. :crazed:

Beast
07-10-2004, 05:07 AM
Well, here's the first possible evidence of some tweaks to the DVD versions. The first picture is from the upcoming DVD from the French trailer for the DVD. And the second picture is from the original SE versions of the movie. Both sabers have been redone, the most evidence can be seen on Vader's which no longer is pinkish-red and thin. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
07-10-2004, 09:09 AM
They look brighter, but also they look like baseball bats. Its a mob fight now.

Pendo
07-10-2004, 04:10 PM
Thanks for the pics JJB :). I'm glad the lightsabers are being redone, this is one of the changes that I actually don't mind happening. I hope Lukes (Anakin's) saber actually looks blue now :)!

I have resized the images so they are at the same dimensions so you can see the changes better :).

PENDO!

Kidhuman
07-10-2004, 09:54 PM
Vaders cape is actually darker now too.

Slicker
07-10-2004, 11:57 PM
So long as the "tweaks" are kept to a bare minimum this ought to be a great DVD trilogy. Who the hell am I kidding they could put Jar Jar in the damn things and I'd still gladly shell out the $40 without thinking twice.

Beast
07-11-2004, 02:36 PM
Well, here we go. Another piece of evidence from the French DVD trailer of the minor tweaks that have been made to the film. The Detention Block Corridor has been changed, making it look like the corridor is endless. Instead of the white box in the distance that was seen in the original and SE releases. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Deoxyribonucleic
07-11-2004, 03:15 PM
that's kinda cool!

So how come that white box is shown in the US trailer but not in the French trailer. I'm kinda confused about all of this being different in France but not in the US. :confused:

Beast
07-11-2004, 03:39 PM
Probably for the same reason there were no lightsaber tweaks to the US trailer. They just weren't finished yet when the US trailer was being assembled. By the time they started work on the French trailer, the changes were already made to the footage that was used to assemble the french trailer. :)

Someone posted over on TheForce that the Dianoga Eyeball that pops out of the water now in ANH has been digitially enhanced. It now features a blink, as it's looking around before it submerges again. Pretty cool if you ask me, may as well try to make things like it look more realistic if possible. I wouldn't mind seeing more tentacles either, if that was possible. But the eye is a nice tweak. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Deoxyribonucleic
07-11-2004, 03:48 PM
Probably for the same reason there were no lightsaber tweaks to the US trailer. They just weren't finished yet when the US trailer was being assembled. By the time they started work on the French trailer, the changes were already made to the footage that was used to assemble the french trailer. :)



That makes sense, thanks.

I do like all these little tweaks they are doing, to make things look more realistic...the dianoga tweak sounds cool too. I think it'll be fun to get these and compare to the orginals and the SE all the little things they've done to it. Now I need 3 tv's and 3 dvd players so I can watch them all simultaneously ;)

Do you know if this one had any extra footage or if it will be longer or shorter than the SE versions?

Beast
07-12-2004, 03:36 AM
Here's a couple more comparison pics from the new DVD cuts. Note that the flare in the French trailer in picture one and the picture quality in picture three may be due to a bad rip of the trailer. Or from a scene switch during the photo capture during the pause. The sabers look much improved. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
07-12-2004, 11:02 AM
On the last pic, it looks like the Emperor's blob is still there on the French Trailer :(.

Where can I download the French Trailer from, anyone know?

PENDO!

Beast
07-12-2004, 12:11 PM
I don't know anywhere that actually has it up. And from what I heard, it's a huge file in the 200 MB's range. Don't quote me on that though, I need to check again. So it would take forever to download for anyone that could find a copy of it. :(

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-12-2004, 12:23 PM
These changes sound pretty cool. The lightsabers look great! However, they look kind of odd in the Emperor picture. And also, on this new version, Luke is still closer to the Emperor than Vader is, so Luke can still kill him. Which was something they changed for the SE in the first place. :rolleyes:

plo koon 200
07-13-2004, 02:00 AM
Good changes. I hope that seven years of tweaking will produce a perfect DVD when it comes out.

vadersvette
07-13-2004, 04:12 PM
These changes sound pretty cool. The lightsabers look great! However, they look kind of odd in the Emperor picture.

I agree. They don't have the white in the middle. And it looks like they're passing through each other. The original version looked better.

Pendo
07-13-2004, 05:07 PM
I hope they were just incomplete versions, and the final version on the DVD will look better :).

PENDO!

JON9000
07-13-2004, 08:04 PM
the most evidence can be seen on Vader's which no longer is pinkish-red and thin. :)

Insert Beavis and Butthead laughing here.... :eek:

Beast
07-14-2004, 09:34 AM
Right click and save to your computer, if you want to see a trailer comparison created by someone for DVDFile.com. It compares the US unfinished trailer with the French 'finished' trailer. Very intresting but the tweaks are definatly hard to notice unless they haven't already been pointed out. Warning, it is a large download. Nearly 20 MB's and plays in Quicktime. :)

http://www.dvdfile.com/multimedia/starwars/trilogy/dvdtrailercomparison.mp4

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
07-14-2004, 12:28 PM
Right click and save to your computer, if you want to see a trailer comparison created by someone for DVDFile.com. It compares the US unfinished trailer with the French 'finished' trailer. Very intresting but the tweaks are definatly hard to notice unless they haven't already been pointed out. Warning, it is a large download. Nearly 20 MB's and plays in Quicktime. :)

http://www.dvdfile.com/multimedia/starwars/trilogy/dvdtrailercomparison.mp4

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks
Thanski verski muchski budski :D

PENDO!

Veers
07-14-2004, 09:20 PM
I hope the new DVD versions include the missing sand storm seen in ROTJ after they kill Jabba.

Beast
07-23-2004, 11:20 PM
Lookie lookie. We have some leaked screenshots from the upcoming ROTJ. From what I understand, someone got ahold of a copy. They also confirm there's been no changes made to the 'Leia & Luke Talk' scene on Endor. Coolest piccie here, the Naboo shot from the Finale Celebration. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
07-23-2004, 11:23 PM
Okay, I like the R2 and 3PO, but screw Hayden's mug in there. Get him out.

Beast
07-24-2004, 12:04 AM
Here's another quick piccie. An altered pic of the Corsurant Celebration. You can see the Jedi Temple in the background. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Slicker
07-24-2004, 12:09 AM
I'm with kidhuman. Get that crappy young Anakin out of their and give me pasty old Anakin. Other than that all of the other pics look great!

MASTER_JEDI
07-24-2004, 02:12 AM
Hi guys. I'm always here browsing, but kinda shy lol. But I HAVE to say I love these pictures.

JARJARBINKS, I look foward to reading your posts everytime, you seem like the back bone of this forum to me:)

WHOH! That 3PO and R2 picture looks so clean! :D :D Man these DVD'S can't come fast enough! And about Hayden, I say YES!!!!!! I'm not AFRAID to admit I like...no LOVE the prequals(even Jar Jar, Qui-Gon, and Little Jake), so these new DVD's being tied into the new movies(will, of course they are tied, but you know what I mean) is fantastic in my eyes...

Star Wars was the first movie I ever remeber seeing, and I've been obsessed with that universe ever since, and love the original trilogy more then...well, lets just say it's home away from home, but these new scenes, updated graphics, and cleaner copies is so very welcome to me.

Most feel they take away from the great films we grew up with, I feel as if it just adds more, and in a positive way:)

Beast
07-24-2004, 09:03 AM
Here's some more great pictures from the ROTJ DVD. The picture quality on these blow me away. None of these stills feature changes, just remastered source material. Looks great. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
07-24-2004, 09:34 AM
Ok, here's some more pictures for you from the DVD. Note that Hayden has not replaced Shaw in the unmasking. But they may have digitally recolored Shaw's eyes to match Hayden's, as well as removing the eyebrows from his face. Looks great. And look, no more nasty Rancor matte lines. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-24-2004, 02:01 PM
Holy crap, those stills look great! It looks like a brand new movie! The Naboo scene is an awesome addition, as is the Jedi Temple. I suppose having young Anakin in there is fine, as long as it doesn't look too fake, and it doesn't. That's weird how they changed the eyes and eyebrows of old Anakin, but I guess it makes more sense, since the rest of his hair is singed off, and the eyes should be continuous. These DVDs can't come out fast enough!!! :D:D:D

Beast
07-24-2004, 02:02 PM
Well, I've seen the video of Hayden ghost. So it's definatly not fake now. I'm trying to find a place to host it. But I'll be happy to send it to anyone who wants it on AIM. The AIM name is Vintage Splinter. Just poke me, and I'll send the file. Note I'm on dial-up, so it will take a few minutes. Also note that the music in the file is not from the final DVD, because the person who made this had a silent capture from the leaked ROTJ DVD. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Bosskman
07-24-2004, 03:06 PM
The burning question for me is did they fix ANH Jabba and Sy Snootles? If they did that, they could have 5 additional minutes of Jar Jar Footage inserted into all the most important scenes and I'd still be happy.

Beast
07-24-2004, 03:14 PM
According to what I've been reading, the ANH Jabba has been redone with a more complex CGI Jabba. Sy Snootles hasn't been changed though, as far as I know. In fact, I prefer the SE "Jedi Rocks" scene, with the CGI Snootles and changes. Oh, and here's a couple more pictures from the Jedi DVD. Also added a pic of the Rancor mouth, looks tons better. I lightened this one up a bit, because the picture I had was too dark. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

scruffziller
07-24-2004, 04:09 PM
I think one of the reason that the movies look so clean now is because of digital grading like they do on all(most) of our films. It removes that "smokey 80s look."
On LOTR:FOTR special features disc for the EE show how much of a difference it can make.

I wonder if the set will come with a free ticket to EPS 3.:D

vadersvette
07-24-2004, 04:16 PM
If they changed Anakin's spirit to Hayden, why did they leave Obi-Wan alone?!? I would've thought they would put Ewan and a CGI Yoda in there, too. I don't like that at all! I wish Lucas would just leave these movies alone. :mad:

Beast
07-24-2004, 04:25 PM
Because Obi-Wan never turned to the Dark Side. This fits with Obi-Wan's whole, "Anakin Died when he became Darth Vader" deal. Basically the Jedi Spirit doesn't age in the Dark Side. So just like Anakin's ghost didn't come back missing limbs or with hidious scars, he also came back as the good man he'd been, before he 'died'. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
07-24-2004, 04:34 PM
And here's some more piccies. I'm turning the brightness up on them a bit, since they are waaaaaay too dark in the captures people are putting up. The clearness of these screenshots is astounding. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
07-24-2004, 04:47 PM
It's hard to tell on those pics, is the Emperor's slug still on his face?

Thaks for all the images JJB, they're AWSOME!

PENDO!

Pendo
07-24-2004, 05:17 PM
Well, I've seen the video of Hayden ghost. So it's definatly not fake now. I'm trying to find a place to host it. But I'll be happy to send it to anyone who wants it on AIM. The AIM name is Vintage Splinter. Just poke me, and I'll send the file. Note I'm on dial-up, so it will take a few minutes. Also note that the music in the file is not from the final DVD, because the person who made this had a silent capture from the leaked ROTJ DVD. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks
http://www.thereddwarfzone.co.uk/Downloads/ROTJ-2004-HAYDENGHOSTCHANGE.mov

Thanx for the file JJB :D

I'm running low of bandwidth so I'll be taking it down Sunday evening (British evening, so American afternoon-ish).

PENDO!

Beast
07-25-2004, 09:47 AM
And I figured I'd continue sharing the love. Here's some more of the remastered DVD quality piccies from ROTJ. No copies of ANH or ESB have turned up yet. But we can all enjoy the tasty ROTJ piccies until they do. Again note that I had to crop these down, and brighten them up a bit. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-25-2004, 02:39 PM
Again, thanks for the pics! I'm downloading the movie right now too. Looking at the picture of Han and Lando in the hangar, it reminded me; does anyone know if they changed that horrible part where he walks away and turns into a shadow? I hate that!

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 11:21 AM
Okay, this has probably been covered in another thread by now, but just in case it hasn't. . . . .

It's official. Hayden is replacing Sebastian Shaw.

Sansweet and McCallum were directly asked this at the big discussion on Saturday in San Diego. McCallum sorta hemmed and hawed, but Sansweet said, "I've got the Sith shirt on, so I'll be the bad guy! All I can say about that is you'll have to wait and see." The way he said it, he may as well have said, "Yup, yup!"

However, from the footage we saw, the slugs appear to be gone. And the extras look positively mouth-watering (even if they don't include legendary footage of Leia "popping out" of slave garb :beard: ).

Droid
07-26-2004, 11:36 AM
Darth Vader DIED when he threw the Emperor into the chasm. Then Anakin Skywalker returned/reemerged, was reborn, retook control, whatever you want to say. Luke was talking to Anakin in that hangar, not Vader. I am not buying this Ben's spirit was old Ben because he died on the good side. ANAKIN DIED ON THE GOOD SIDE.

How does Luke know who he is looking at next to Yoda and Ben?

This change makes no sense.

Beast
07-26-2004, 11:49 AM
The change makes sense, given the fact that you don't see a limbless, burned, bald old man floating in space next to Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yes, Vader returned to being the good man of Anakin Skywalker that he had not been for over two decades. But he was still a burned, limbless, shell of a man, who had basically been dead save for his life support system and the Emperor's actions. So when Anakin returned as a blue-glowie Jedi Spirit, his appearance matched the good man he had been, when he was whole. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 11:54 AM
I'm just wondering how long it will take for revised versions of the older novels (changed to better fit continuity) to show up.

Today's episode: references to the kindly old spirit who visited Leia during the Bakuran battles are replaced with references to a dashing young one-armed Knight with a mullet.

Droid
07-26-2004, 12:04 PM
The Force made the limbless old man whole again, but the Anakin that had just died, not the Anakin of Episode II. Obi-wan wasn't returned to his Ewan days. It is just so inconsistent. They should have had Ewan and Hayden or perhaps just LEFT WELL ENOUGH ALONE!

Rocketboy
07-26-2004, 12:15 PM
They should have had Ewan and Hayden or perhaps just LEFT WELL ENOUGH ALONE!You should know by now that'll never happen. George will probably make minor tweaks every couple of years and before you know it we'll have 7 or copies of the DVDs.

Beast
07-26-2004, 12:20 PM
Because Obi-Wan died still a Jedi. Anakin's Jedi Spirit didn't age in the dark side. When he died as a crippled, twisted old man, he was restored to the good man he once was. There's no reason for Ewan to replace Alec, because Obi-Wan never fell to the Dark Side. He didn't live his life as a twisted mockery of metal and flesh. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 12:24 PM
I'll say it again:

Plot-wise, I have no problem with this. It actually makes good sense.

Big picture-wise, it only throws a minor wrench into the EU. It's easy to gloss over one line (since Anakin only appeared to Leia once). Far less a spanner in the works than Boba's origin, Bib Fortuna and Greedo in TPM, or Jedi not becoming ghosts.

But I still don't like the change, because I find it incredibly disrespectful to the memory of Sebastian Shaw. This change should have been held off for the Archival Editions.

plo koon 200
07-26-2004, 12:35 PM
If anyone finds the entire DVD copy of ROTJ online can they please please please PM or e-mail it to me. Thanks a lot.

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:13 PM
There's a couple MP3 rips from the new ESB DVD. The first one being the new Ian McDirmand Emperor, and the dialogue changes to his discussion of Luke Skywalker with Darth Vader. And the other is the altered voice of Boba Fett, who has been revoiced by Temura Morrison. Sadly they're too big for the forums, but anyone that wants them can poke me on AIM. Also downloading the Theed addition to the end credits, but no place to host it. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-26-2004, 01:13 PM
I've seen the video, and it actually looks good. I don't think it's disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw or anything, I mean he's still in the armor at the end (though they may be disrespecting his eyebrows :p ). What JJB is saying is true, it would look more out of place for a fully regenerated old man Anakin with hair, full limbs, and working organs (do ghosts have organs?) than for a younger Anakin when he was still pretty good.

I guess it's up to everyone to form their own opinion on this one.

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 01:29 PM
I don't see any reason Fett should be re-voiced. He grew up in a completely different atmosphere and locales than Jango, so a different accent should be expected.

Those bootlegs are looking nicer and nicer by the minute.

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:35 PM
Well, given Boba's age at the time his accent should have become ingrained in him at that age. He should have basically developed one that was a blend of his father, and of the Kaminoians. Besides, Boba's voice in the few times he does talk in Empire were done by an uncredited voice actor anyway. Not Jeremy Bulloch. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Droid
07-26-2004, 01:40 PM
Boba Fett was wearing his helmet every time he spoke. His voice was filtered and could have even been altered by the helmet. There is no reason for his voice to change.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. They are changing the Emperor's DIALOGUE to Vader in Empire. He says something different as opposed to just changing actors?! What does he say NOW?

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:42 PM
Here's the dialogue change to Empire, Ian and JEJ sound great. Hopefully they had JEJ redo the 'Bring my Shuttle" scene.

Emperor: "We have a new enemy, the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."

Vader: "How is that possible?"

Emperor: "Search your feelings, Lord Vader, you will know it to be true. He could destroy us."

Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 01:44 PM
Well, given Boba's age at the time his accent should have become ingrained in him at that age.

Not true. He's about ten at the time of AOTC and, if this statement were true, I know a lot of real-world people who would talk completely differently from the way they do, myself included. Linguists have lots of fun analyzing exactly how easily we can shift from accent to accent based upon our surroundings. I once spent two weeks in England and came home having picked up a bit of an English accent that stayed with me for a couple of days. I moved from North Carolina when I was about thirteen and no longer have any trace of an accent, but if you put me around someone from NC for a mere thirty seconds, I sound like I've lived there my entire life.

If there was a Mandalorean or Kaminoan who interacted with Boba in the OT, I could see his reverting back to that accent. But if he's grown up not in the company of Mandaloreans but around Jabba's goons and the other dregs of the galaxy, he should speak differently most of the time.

And I already knew it wasn't Bulloch, but it being Gary the Uncredited Guy is like an extra slap in the face atop his not being listed. Imagine him picking up the new DVDs and saying to his kids, "Okay, guys, listen closely to Boba Fett, because that's your dad's big moment." That's got to suck.

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:45 PM
Boba Fett was wearing his helmet every time he spoke. His voice was filtered and could have even been altered by the helmet. There is no reason for his voice to change.
Jango Fett was wearing the exact same helmet, at times he spoke. Remember that given the dent on Boba's helmet, he just repainted Jango's when it came time for him to done one of Jango's spare armors. So it makes total sense that he'd still sound somewhat like Jango. And I don't see Boba as an overly social person. So how would he pick up another accent? :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 01:46 PM
Here's the dialogue change to Empire, Ian and JEJ sound great. Hopefully they had JEJ redo the 'Bring my Shuttle" scene.

Emperor: "We have a new enemy, the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."

Vader: "How is that possible?"

Emperor: "Search your feelings, Lord Vader, you will know it to be true. He could destroy us."

Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Gawd, I read this after my last post. The bootlegs are now beating the official DVDs by a 4,863,227 to 1 margin.

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 01:48 PM
Jango Fett was wearing the exact same helmet, at times he spoke. Remember that given the dent on Boba's helmet, he just repainted Jango's when it came time for him to done one of Jango's spare armors. So it makes total sense that he'd still sound somewhat like Jango. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Okay, JJB, I'm going to pause after this post so we don't keep going back and forth like this. :)

Does Lucas care whatsoever about the storyline of SW? If Jango's armor is Boba's, why did he approve storylines saying that Boba kept Jango's armor safe for sentimental reasons and uses the armor of Jango's master, Jaster Mareel? And that he always had at least one spare of all parts of the armor (the armor itself included)? All this after AOTC?

If you want creative control of something, you shouldn't approve all sorts of side stories by other folks and not respect them later on when you add to the original.

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:50 PM
Gawd, I read this after my last post. The bootlegs are now beating the official DVDs by a 4,863,227 to 1 margin.
Your opinion. I like the change, El Chux. Shows that there's a bit going on that the Emperor isn't aware of. That Vader is already aware of Luke Skywalker, and has his own plans once he finds him. Hence his desire to try to turn him to the Dark Side, so he can kick Palpy to the curb. It works great, in my opinion. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
07-26-2004, 01:52 PM
I never said that he's wearing Jango's armor. It's clear he's not, given the differences in the body part of the suit. I'm talking about the helmet. It's clear to me that he's wearing his father's helmet to honor him, along with one of his father's spare uniforms. Which is the 'Jaster Merell' one, that we've heard about constantly. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
07-26-2004, 01:55 PM
Your opinion. I like the change, El Chux. Shows that there's a bit going on that the Emperor isn't aware of. That Vader is already aware of Luke Skywalker, and has his own plans once he finds him. Hence his desire to try to turn him to the Dark Side, so he can kick Palpy to the curb. It works great, in my opinion. :)

But to me, that came across perfectly well in the original dialogue, which also added the "Palpatine doesn't know. . . or does he?" aspect which is now lost. I've always enjoyed speculating how much Palpatine knows or doesn't know.

And we can re-write a few more of the books which were, once again, approved by Lucas. Imagine if Star Trek continuity were this vague, contradictory, and fragmented.

Rocketboy
07-26-2004, 01:57 PM
I'm not so sure I like these ESB changes. The dialogue change ins't necessary and the image doesn't look as good as the original, IMO.

Beast
07-26-2004, 02:00 PM
Ian McDirmand in full makeup, and revoicing a scene that annoyed people, who said it should have been fixed in 1997, doesn't look as good as an old woman, fused with chimp eyes? The hell? :confused:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Droid
07-26-2004, 02:03 PM
The new dialogue contributes nothing. Why in the world change it? And the Emperor hologram isn't so nifty either. What on Earth will we be watching in September?

Rocketboy
07-26-2004, 03:31 PM
Ian McDirmand in full makeup, and revoicing a scene that annoyed people, who said it should have been fixed in 1997, doesn't look as good as an old woman, fused with chimp eyes? The hell? :confused:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar BinksBased on just that pic and the written dialogue - give me the chimp!
Granted, I may change my opinion when I finally see it.

Slicker
07-26-2004, 10:48 PM
I'm with this crazy RocketBoy character. Give me back my monkey eyes. Why didn't they change the Emperor in Jedi to have monkey eyes instead of changing Empire. And the dialogue in my opinion is too wordy. But who am I to talk about the Holy Trilogy like that. Lucas is God.

JediTricks
07-27-2004, 01:41 AM
Ian McDirmand in full makeup, and revoicing a scene that annoyed people, who said it should have been fixed in 1997, doesn't look as good as an old woman, fused with chimp eyes? The hell? :confused:I believe he means the effect itself, it's the same feeling I had when I saw the new image.


I personally don't like the new dialogue, it doesn't really make a lot of sense, now Palpatine somehow knows exactly who blew up the Death Star, is only assuming it is the son of Skywalker, and hasn't chatted with Vader about this over the past 2 years or so since it happened? And if that's the case, why go through all that trouble of saying anything about the stupid Death Star when the original lines suggested that Palps & Vader had already discussed who this was and knew his name? Seems like yet another totally unnecessary change.


I still don't get why Luke and ROTJ audiences are supposed to know who that young long-haired ghost guy is at the end of the film. You can justify the reasoning in the plot all you like, but on-screen it still doesn't make sense. Hell, it barely was recognizable when it was Shaw and that was the same actor.

Beast
07-27-2004, 10:05 AM
I don't think that's the intention at all, JT. The intention is to nail home the fact that Palpatine has just found out about Luke Skywalker. Just like the original dialogue did, with the "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker" dialogue. Clearly if you never picked up on the fact that Palpy is just finding this info out, long after Vader was already informed of it, the change in dialogue is important to clearly show that this is the case.

Palpy's calling Darth Vader to inform him of these facts. But Vader found out a while ago, that's why in the opening crawl it says that he's obsessed with finding Young Skywalker. And that he even makes refrence to Luke being on the Hoth system to the Imperial officers. In other words, Anakin/Vader is ****ed at Palpatine, and has been stewing for a while. How can he have a son, after the events of Episode III. Vader knows he can't confront Palpatine directly, so he calls him on it: "How is that possible?", which roughly can be considered: "How is that possible, you crusty old fart.....you told me she died."

It also shows more evidence that Vader's plotting his moves behind Palpatine's back. Just like Dooku was plotting to corrupt Obi-Wan, so they could take out Sidious. This is later show for sure, in the confrontation with Luke and Vader on Cloud City. Vader knows as a crippled old man, that he has no chance of taking out Palpy himself. But he can try to corrupt and turn Luke, so that Luke will do the job for him. Such as Vader's lines to Luke about the Emperor forseeing that Luke will destroy him. And the offer to rule the galaxy as father and son. Vader doesn't have the will to strike back against his master, atleast not until ROTJ when he sees someone he loves dieing.

I think you're not giving Luke or ROTJ audiences enough credit, if you think they're dense enough to not be able to figure out that the 3rd Spirit is Luke's Dad. What, some completely unrelated ghost just dropped in for cookies and milk after Vader/Anakin died. It makes as much sense as the fact that Anakin doesn't appear as some hidiously burned torso missing it's arms and legs. He's no longer confined to the dead flesh, so why shouldn't he appear whole? Remember what Yoda tells us: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." Anakin's manifesting as the good man he was, before his fall to the Dark Side. Besides, you figure he and Padme will get reunited in the afterlife at some point. I don't think he wants to greet her as some 50 year old fart that she doesn't know. He'd want to appear to her, as the man she remembers. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Deoxyribonucleic
07-27-2004, 11:23 AM
I still don't get why Luke and ROTJ audiences are supposed to know who that young long-haired ghost guy is at the end of the film.

long-haired, whiney ghost guy ;)

so far of all the changes I've seen, this is the only one I'm very disappointed in. I don't like it one bit!

Beast
07-27-2004, 11:26 AM
Here's the first breaking pics of the fixed Jabba from SW. Looks much better, and more in line with the puppet that appears in ROTJ. And a couple shots of the finally fixed Saber of Darth Vader's as the doors are closing in ANH. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Rocketboy
07-27-2004, 11:40 AM
Now these are changes I'm happy with!
Jabba looks so much better!

Now for the $64,000 question:
Who shoots first?

Beast
07-27-2004, 12:05 PM
Now these are changes I'm happy with!
Jabba looks so much better!

Now for the $64,000 question:
Who shoots first?
Greedo shoots first. But supposedly the effect looks a million times better than what appears on the SE DVD. We'll see when we have our copies in our hands in a couple months. Until then, here's some more piccies. Mostly of the New Emperor, and a shot of C-3PO and R2-D2 in the Tantive IV corridor. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Pendo
07-27-2004, 12:21 PM
I'm not sure I like the look of the new Jabba. He still looks fake and I even think the SE one looked more realistic (actually no it doesn't they're both crap). Hopefully when I see it move on DVD it will look more realistic. And does Han still stand on his tail? Have you see how fat Jabba's tail is, some bloody big step for Han to stand on it :rolleyes:!

I like the fact they've changed the Emperor scene with Ian, and I can get used to the new dialogue (although I prefer the original). What I won't get used to about it is how AWFUL the make up is :(!

PENDO!

Rocketboy
07-27-2004, 12:27 PM
Greedo shoots first. But supposedly the effect looks a million times better than what appears on the SE DVD. Stupid Greedo...:frus:

And that Emperor make up looks pretty bad. Doesn't even look like the ROTJ Emperor.

Beast
07-27-2004, 12:31 PM
Stupid Greedo...:frus:

And that Emperor make up looks pretty bad. Doesn't even look like the ROTJ Emperor.
It looks more like the ROTJ Emperor, than the crappy OLME Emperor of old. I think the make-up is fine. It's just the holographic look that is making it look off. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-27-2004, 12:37 PM
Holy buggers! First, the good:
*Jabba looks absolutely amazing. He looks exactly like he does in ROTJ and TPM, and his head isn't twice the size of his stomach, like on the old one. I love it.
*The picture quality of R2 and 3PO blows my mind. I can't believe it.
*I, for one, like the Boba voice change. I'd been hoping for it for a long time. Jason Winters/Wintergreen or whatever his name was sounded nothing like Jango, and since Boba's his clone, it works. I think it's still possible for him to have an accent. For all we know, he's been hanging around the Kaminoans and other clones since those books ended. He could still have the accent. What's funny about it is, JJB has always said he liked the other version, since you get your accent from whom with you hang around. But now he's supporting this new version wholeheartedly. :D I'm not bashing you man, but I just think it's sort of funny.
*I also like the dialogue change for the Vader scene. It makes sense that Palpatine would mention that he was the one to destroy the Death Star and that he was Anakin's kid. Maybe he didn't figure it out until recently? I don't know.
Now, the bad:
*Good God, the new Emperor looks horrible! Didn't they have any references from ROTJ available? He has a loose nasty neck, which the other one didn't. It is only a passing likeness of Palpatine. Maybe I have to see it in motion to appreciate it?

plo koon 200
07-27-2004, 12:39 PM
Check this out and go to not so special edition. You will here Temerua doing Boba's dialogue and the changed Palpy dialogue.

And, where do you get the pics Jar Jar?

Pendo
07-27-2004, 12:44 PM
I prefer the old dialogue, but don't mind the new one. I like how the Emperor states "I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker".

Could it mean that the "I am your father" secret will not be spoiled in ROTS???? :D

PENDO!

El Chuxter
07-27-2004, 01:15 PM
Jabba looks awesome! Now let's see some pics of the redone dianoga and the extended Endor battle where Teek takes down an AT-ST by running around it really fast and tripping it up!

Is Temuera supposed to be doing all the Stormtroopers, too?

Beast
07-27-2004, 01:30 PM
From what I read, Temuera only revoiced Boba Fett. This fits in with what Lucas said, about needing a new genetic source for the Clones, due to Jango's death. So now the Stormies come from different genetic stock, giving them different voices. Easier than to try to explain the height variations. It's safe to assume the Stormie that bumps his head in ANH, is one of the original stock. ;) :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Droid
07-27-2004, 02:13 PM
I think the Emperor makeup is POOR.

bigbarada
07-27-2004, 02:26 PM
Thanks for all the pics Jar Jar! So far I don't see anything that I find too objectionable yet.

I actually like the new Emperor in ESB, I think he looks even better than the ROTJ version. The lines seem a little strange for now, but that's probably because I'm just so used to the old dialogue.

I'm glad they fixed the Rancor scene finally and the Naboo shot in the celebration scene really doesn't bother me.

I'm not too impressed with the new ANH Jabba however; but I always thought that scene should have been scrapped forever once Jabba was redesigned as a giant slug. The CG looks a little subpar, similar to the additions in the Ep1 DVD. I was kind of hoping that the Extended Editions of LOTR would let directors know that just because a CG shot is only going to be seen on the DVD is no excuse to cut corners.

bigbarada
07-27-2004, 02:37 PM
I dunno. This seems a bit insulting to the memory of Sebastian Shaw. Why not use CG to replace Dumbledore in the first two HP films with the new guy? Or digitally replace Jodie Foster with Julianne Moore in Silence of the Lambs, just to give it a bit more of a connection?


It's ironic that you say that, because in 1983 fans were complaining that casting Sebastian Shaw to be the man behind Vader's mask was insulting to David Prowse.

Beast
07-27-2004, 02:43 PM
It's ironic that you say that, because in 1983 fans were complaining that casting Sebastian Shaw to be the man behind Vader's mask was insulting to David Prowse.
Most likely started by David Prowse in the first place. Given that he's always been very vocal of the fact that his voice was stolen from him as Vader. And then to have Seb Shaw replace the unmasked version, must have gotten his panties in a bunch. After all, remember he was the one who was commenting he should play Anakin in the Prequels also. :crazed: :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
07-27-2004, 02:52 PM
Most likely started by David Prowse in the first place. Given that he's always been very vocal of the fact that his voice was stolen from him as Vader. And then to have Seb Shaw replace the unmasked version, must have gotten his panties in a bunch. After all, remember he was the one who was commenting he should play Anakin in the Prequels also. :crazed: :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Have you ever read any of Prowse's rantings on his "official fan site?" There just downright disturbing. He does explain how he was unfairly accused of giving away the spoiler of Vader's death in ROTJ to an aggressive reporter (which he believes to be partially resposible for his being replaced as Anakin); but otherwise he just seems to go off on little tyrades then profess that none of it really bothers him at all (at least until his next tyrade). :crazed:

Rocketboy
07-27-2004, 02:59 PM
Have you ever read any of Prowse's rantings on his "official fan site?" There just downright disturbing. He does explain how he was unfairly accused of giving away the spoiler of Vader's death in ROTJ to an aggressive reporter (which he believes to be partially resposible for his being replaced as Anakin); but otherwise he just seems to go off on little tyrades then profess that none of it really bothers him at all (at least until his next tyrade). :crazed:I thought it funny that he thought he should be the one to play Vader in Episode 3, even after hip replacement.

Beast
07-27-2004, 03:17 PM
I'm sure it bothers him. After all, he wouldn't sign his autographs: "David Prowse is Darth Vader", if he wasn't bothered by the fact that he needs to associate so badly with the fact he was in the costume. And the best Saber fights weren't even done by Prowse. They were done by the guy that cheroegraphed the saber fights for LOTR's. Not to mention the fact that Prowse is full of crap, he dropped the spoiler about who Luke's father was to the British Press also. Thankfully Lucas knew not to trust him, so had him do the infamous "No, Obi-Wan is your father." line. :p :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

plo koon 200
07-27-2004, 03:26 PM
Temerua does do the voices for the Stormies in ANH from what I have heard from sources. Still, no audio clip to confirm.

Dr Zoltar
07-27-2004, 06:34 PM
I'm still not so sure about some of these changes. The ones that bug me most are:


The new Emperor's make up looks like a Halloween mask.
I don't like the new Jabba any more than the previous one, but I like that the deleted scene was added.
I don't like that young Anakin was added to the end sequence of ROTJ.
I still hate that Greedo shot first.
I still hate the new version of the Sy Snootles song.
I do hope that some more deleted scenes are added on the DVD's even just as extras. Especially during the Hoth Echo Base battle.

And I do like the transfer clean up to DVD. The colors are phenomenal!

Slicker
07-27-2004, 06:46 PM
I agree. The Jabba looks pretty sad compared to what these companies are capable of doing with CG right now. And that Emperor looks down right terrible. I think the make-up artist was drunk when he/she applied it. Once again alcoholics ruin the day.

plo koon 200
07-27-2004, 07:59 PM
The only thing that bothers me is the voice changes for the Stormies and Boba. I think a lot of viewers, especially kids who don't know better, will be confused and think they are all Jango and they will think Jango never died.

Bosskman
07-27-2004, 08:33 PM
I like Jabba. I don't think anyone here can say he's as bad as that hidious Grimace that was in the old SE. I wish they wouldn't have changed the stormies, that's stupid beyond belief. Them and Boba Fett. Retarded. Palpy's dialogue should have stayed the same too.

JediTricks
07-27-2004, 08:57 PM
I don't think that's the intention at all, JT. The intention is to nail home the fact that Palpatine has just found out about Luke Skywalker. Just like the original dialogue did, with the "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker" dialogue. Clearly if you never picked up on the fact that Palpy is just finding this info out, long after Vader was already informed of it, the change in dialogue is important to clearly show that this is the case. I couldn't agree with you less on this issue, there's a REASON that I never "picked up on the fact that Palpy is just finding this info out long after Vader", because that's not the way the movie plays it, the original writer and director didn't give that impression to the audience that I've ever noticed.

Your later reasoning about all this sounds an awful lot like Lucas-brand after-the-fact meddling, he didn't even make this film and now expects us to throw all this backstory into 3 changed lines of dialogue as an attempt to needlessly pad the story in conflict with Vader's statements in ROTJ about the power that Palpatine has over him, about how he must obey his master. I don't believe for a second that Vader would usurp a sizeable portion of the Imperial fleet for 2 years for a personal quest without even so much as discussing the issue with the Emperor.



I think you're not giving Luke or ROTJ audiences enough credit, if you think they're dense enough to not be able to figure out that the 3rd Spirit is Luke's Dad. What, some completely unrelated ghost just dropped in for cookies and milk after Vader/Anakin died.First off, throwing a whole new actor into the spot who is a different age, different height, and looks totally different IS going to confuse audiences, even if Luke somehow automatically "knows" this guy younger than him is his dad.


It makes as much sense as the fact that Anakin doesn't appear as some hidiously burned torso missing it's arms and legs. He's no longer confined to the dead flesh, so why shouldn't he appear whole?Which the original version of the film already dealt with.


Remember what Yoda tells us: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." Anakin's manifesting as the good man he was, before his fall to the Dark Side. Except Anakin's fall started before he was even a Jedi, when he was an angry 9-year-old boy. But I'm sure your Lucas-loophole is exactly what Uncle George has in mind, he's a good Jedi right up until the precise moment he signs his name on the Sith contract, and this new version of Anakin's ghost is a snapshot of that Anakin 2 seconds before that contract was signed.



I'm not sure I like the look of the new Jabba. He still looks fake and I even think the SE one looked more realistic (actually no it doesn't they're both crap). Hopefully when I see it move on DVD it will look more realistic. And does Han still stand on his tail? Have you see how fat Jabba's tail is, some bloody big step for Han to stand on it :rolleyes:!That's how I feel too Pendo. And they made his tail much larger, I don't see how they're gonna get away with this one, before it was a small bump but now Harrison's gonna have to jump 2 feet.



It's ironic that you say that, because in 1983 fans were complaining that casting Sebastian Shaw to be the man behind Vader's mask was insulting to David Prowse. I thought they said it was insulting to James Earl Jones because it was some sad old dude with a weak voice, and also insulting to audiences expecting a cooler, torn-up monster guy in the suit instead of some pudgy old guy.

Reefer Shark
07-28-2004, 03:23 AM
The only thing that bothers me is the voice changes for the Stormies and Boba. I think a lot of viewers, especially kids who don't know better, will be confused and think they are all Jango and they will think Jango never died.
I'm with you. I liked the old raspy Boba voice better.
The new dialogue between the Emperor and Vader doesn't bother me though.

They have some voice files up at this website (http://www.starwars-union.de/index.php?id=news&mrubrik=klassischetrilogie&rubrik=klassischetrilogie&newsid=5904#5904) (hopefully it's ok to post that...).

Beast
07-28-2004, 08:39 AM
Sorry JT, I've always felt since I first saw ESB that Vader was keeping things from the Emperor. Many other people on Home Theater Forum and other movie sites have always felt that way as well. This is just helping to nail home that fact, that appears to have been too subtle for some fans to pick up. Glad Lucas changed it, since you clearly never even thought that, from the old dialogue.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
07-28-2004, 09:28 AM
Gawd, I read this after my last post. The bootlegs are now beating the official DVDs by a 4,863,227 to 1 margin.


Glad I got me some bootlegs then.

Jabba still looks Gawd awful and so does the Emperor. Way too many changes IMO. I understand the enhancing of the sabers and brightening of some scenes, but leave them the hell alone already. I dont think I will be buying these right away. :( Lucas, real :(

Now go shave your :beard: you dont deserve one.

Beast
07-28-2004, 10:29 AM
Here's a few more pictures. It does appear that the Tractor Beam screens in ANH with english text have been replaced with the correct Aurebesh. And here's a couple pics of Old and Fixed Detention Block Corridor from ANH. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Droid
07-28-2004, 10:42 AM
The English writing on the tractor beam always bothered me!

But the opening scroll and subtitles are still in English. PLOT FLAW LUCAS. :) And then again, why don't the ships crash into the opening scrolls drifting through space? :rolleyes:

LusiferSam
07-28-2004, 11:48 AM
I'm truly reminded of the South Park episode where the kids are trying to get Lucas and Spielberg to stop "fixing" their movies. They likened it to going to the dark side. Spielberg reptant and returned to the light side, but Lucas remand on the dark side. And I've got to say after reading about a number of these new "fixes" that Lucas has made, its obvious that he is falling deeper and deeper.

A number of these fixes are fine. Like cleaning up the prints, brightening the color, or removing mat lines (I'm not sure why the rancor scene wasn't fixed in '97 but that's a different subject). But **** like changes to the dialogue, replacing things, and the whole who shots first issue in the cantina is total bull. This man is nuts. Enough of the sheep fans will buy this junk to convince him its good and most the fans like it.

If Lucas isn't happy with SW, EBS or ROTJ the way they were made, why not just remake them? He's got enough yes-men around him to say that's a great idea.

bigbarada
07-28-2004, 12:14 PM
Sooooo.... where can I get a copy of the untampered with bootleg DVD?

To be perfectly honest, I'm not too upset about most of the changes; but Lucas has gone far beyond his Special Edition goal of "finishing" sequences that were already filmed.

Tolkien did the same with The Hobbit just before Lord of the Rings was released. Nowadays it's almost impossible to find copies of the original novel. The Hobbit was originally released in the 1930s then revised in the 1950s. That was fifty years ago and I'm sure there were a lot of people complaining back then too (they just didn't have internet forums to consolidate their complaints). But now no one seems to care, everyone just accepts the revisionist Hobbit novel as the original work.

I think the same thing will happen with Star Wars.

scruffziller
07-28-2004, 12:21 PM
He's got enough yes-men around him to say that's a great idea.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Me, personally I hate all the remove and replace things of the changes and that's all fine and dandy if he would actually release all 3 versions of the film. In which I already will but some out there aren't that lucky(or maybe I am speaking too soon or too late) to obtain bootlegs on DVD of the previous versions. Someone mentioned that the bootlegs are selling 4 million to 1.:D
Take that GL!!!!!!!!!!! *makes raspberry in GL's direction*


Sooooo.... where can I get a copy of the untampered with bootleg DVD?
Ebay.




Tolkien did the same with The Hobbit just before Lord of the Rings was released. Nowadays it's almost impossible to find copies of the original novel. The Hobbit was originally released in the 1930s then revised in the 1950s. That was fifty years ago and I'm sure there were a lot of people complaining back then too (they just didn't have internet forums to consolidate their complaints). But now no one seems to care, everyone just accepts the revisionist Hobbit novel as the original work.

I think the same thing will happen with Star Wars.Yes, but Tolkien stopped. I am afraid old Georgie boy won't stop. I think he actually has a whole bunch of clones of himself and McCallum stored away so when they die they can continue to tinker with it.:D

Pendo
07-28-2004, 12:26 PM
Here's a few more pictures. It does appear that the Tractor Beam screens in ANH with english text have been replaced with the correct Aurebesh. And here's a couple pics of Old and Fixed Detention Block Corridor from ANH. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks
I'm glad they've changed the Aurebesh, but haven't they got a lot of Basic (English) text in Episode III to link it with ANH??? Unless the text is not really seen in Revenge (or GL changes it the same way before it is released), it's gonna seem pretty out of place in Ep3!

PENDO!

scruffziller
07-28-2004, 12:30 PM
I wonder now, does GL have in his mind that the SE1997 doesn't exist either.:confused: :(

Beast
07-28-2004, 12:30 PM
Bootlegs don't have official sales numbers. But since the OT DVD's is currently #4 best seller on Amazon, I'd have to say that those guesstimates are totally inaccurate. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
07-28-2004, 12:35 PM
I wonder now, does GL have in his mind that the SE1997 doesn't exist either.:confused: :(
Nothing exists, except the most current versions. Seriously folks, it's not like he's sending Lucasfilm Stormtroopers to your homes and seizing your old copies. And then having a massive bonfire where those old versions are destroyed. He's just not going to pay to have older/inferior (in his artistic eye) versions released on DVD. He's releasing his preferred cuts of the films, merely to please himself. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Deoxyribonucleic
07-28-2004, 12:46 PM
...Lucas-brand after-the-fact meddling, he didn't even make this film and now expects us to throw all this backstory into 3 changed lines of dialogue...

What back story ;)


As for the changes, the Jabba looks good to me.

The voice changes...ridiculous! :rolleyes:

The Emperor I like, but for some strange reason, I also like the old lady with monkey eyes :crazed:

mm74md
07-28-2004, 02:51 PM
After watching Jedi I've decided I'm not buying these. I'll stick to my VHS to DVD copies I made and my Laserdisc Special Edition to DVD copies. I'm not even going to burn the DivX rip to DVD. This is just out of control. I mean look at the great job Lucas did on the Indy Box Set last year. Those things are awesome.

Don't get me wrong, I will rent them when they come out. I'm just not buying ANOTHER version of these movies.

Lucas, why did you do this to us? WE MADE YOU RICH & THIS IS HOW YOU TREAT US!!!!!

Rocketboy
07-28-2004, 04:54 PM
Seriously folks, it's not like he's sending Lucasfilm Stormtroopers to your homes and seizing your old copies. And then having a massive bonfire where those old versions are destroyed. Not yet...
:D

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-28-2004, 06:29 PM
Anyway . . .

That basic English writing always bothered me, since in ROTJ everything is aurabesh and I don't think they would suddenly re-configure all the screens and things in this new way of writing. And since everything in TPM and AOTC is in aurabesh. I agree with Pendo though, but hopefully they won't show the writing anyway. A lot of the ROTS writing was jokes, wasn't it? Like "Rebel Scum Detector" and stuff like that. So even if they did film some stuff up-close I bet they'll fix it to aurabesh before it comes out, I mean they're not even close to being done with the effects!

JediTricks
07-29-2004, 08:04 PM
Sorry JT, I've always felt since I first saw ESB that Vader was keeping things from the Emperor. Many other people on Home Theater Forum and other movie sites have always felt that way as well. This is just helping to nail home that fact, that appears to have been too subtle for some fans to pick up. Glad Lucas changed it, since you clearly never even thought that, from the old dialogue. So Palpatine just happens to let Vader take an Armada out for a couple of years without asking what's going on, doesn't learn anything on his own about who destroyed the Death Star in all that time, and yet knows the kid's name the instant he feels a disturbance in the Force and doesn't even react like this is any sort of surprise? That doesn't hold up for me, it's not that it's "too subtle", it's that I don't think it's there at all. You might as well have been suggesting that Leia knew Luke was her brother before she kissed him in ESB as well, there's nothing to directly contradict it (she does say she's always known in ROTJ after all)... so what if the evidence suggests otherwise.

Vader may have been hiding things from Palpatine, but clearly it's not something this big, otherwise wouldn't Palpatine have been outraged when Vader remained unphased by the name and instead commented on his weakness and age? Palpatine picks up on the subtle clue that Vader's hiding something from him in ROTJ in 2 days, how is Vader supposed to hide something this large from his Sith master for 2 years???

Beast
07-29-2004, 08:12 PM
Vader was searching for the rebels under orders from the Emperor, but he had his own reasons for being there personally. And that was to locate Luke, before the Emperor discovered his existance. Palpatine seems to even in the original dialogue, just be finding out about this 'new enemy'. Yet we're already told in the opening crawl and Vader's words on the command deck that he already knows about Luke Skywalker.

Vader hasn't been in the presence of his master in quite some time, at least from on-screen information. Palpatine didn't even realize that Luke was in the area, until Vader who was familar with his prescence in the force comes and tells him that he's there. I wouldn't say he's hidden it for 2 years, we don't know for sure when Vader found out about Luke. But it's clear to me, that it's not until after Vader has found out about him. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
09-09-2004, 03:39 PM
The Digital Bits has their very positive review up of the DVD set:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarstrilogy.html
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarstrilogy02.html
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges.html
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges02.html

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JEDIpartner
09-09-2004, 04:09 PM
Bil Hunt did a nice job writing that review. Big thumbs up to him and all the people involved in the DVD project.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-09-2004, 05:19 PM
So Luke doesn't scream any more? Awesome! And glad to hear that the landspeeder entry looks better, that old shot bothered me.

El Chuxter
09-09-2004, 05:53 PM
Okay, I'm still a bit iffy about Hayden, and I still hate the idea of Temuera voicing Boba, but otherwise, I'm 100% on board! Not perfect, but I can overlook the 1997 SE's now altogether.

Anyone else notice the veiled confirmation of a massive box in 2007? Can you say "Archival Editions"? I knew you could. :)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-09-2004, 07:42 PM
Okay, I'm still a bit iffy about Hayden, and I still hate the idea of Temuera voicing Boba, but otherwise, I'm 100% on board! Not perfect, but I can overlook the 1997 SE's now altogether.

Anyone else notice the veiled confirmation of a massive box in 2007? Can you say "Archival Editions"? I knew you could. :)

wait, waht?!?! where do you see this, Chux!??!

I'm gettin' giddier and giddier about this set. I guess i have no choice but to learn with Lucas' changes. If not, i still have my OT on DVD....sorry Binks, my "other" versions of the OT on DVD. :crazed:

Imperial Monarche
09-09-2004, 10:40 PM
Lucas, why did you do this to us? WE MADE YOU RICH & THIS IS HOW YOU TREAT US!!!!!

Ok, George Lucas has done nothing wrong in my eyes. You should already know that the original's will be released on DVD eventually because Lucas is too much of a softy for preserving old movies. But, why should he release these the uneditied versions right now, first, on DVD. And, if he doesn't see the need right now, eventually Spielberg will talk him into it because there is no doubt, they are classic and groundbreaking and they should be preserved to show the evolution of special effects, but the release right now is to be part of the saga. I'm sorry to say this, but the advances in technology with the way the PT is made and any movie for that matter, they would look ridiculous when matched with the PT while watching the saga as a whole. That's why the spiffed up versions need to be released now and the originals later.
Plus, why is everyone knocking Lucas because he's "tampering" with his own movies. They were made in a time when special effects were limited, not to mention his budget, so he wasn't able to get away with some of the things he could get away with now. They may have been fine then, but are embarrassing to him now. I know that when I look at some of the work I've done a long time ago, I get embarrassed cause it sucks or not as good as work I can do now. Why should Lucas feel the same way when he can fix what he feels is inferior and the way he wanted it then now? Why should he be stuck irritated by thinking he could fix the movies to the way he want them to be but fans like you can't accept the changes because it robs you of your childhood?

Kidhuman
09-10-2004, 09:15 AM
If not, i still have my OT on DVD....sorry Binks, my "other" versions of the OT on DVD. :crazed:


Nothing to be sorry for. You have the only edition that should have been released.

stillakid
09-10-2004, 09:20 AM
Why should Lucas feel the same way when he can fix what he feels is inferior and the way he wanted it then now? Why should he be stuck irritated by thinking he could fix the movies to the way he want them to be but fans like you can't accept the changes because it robs you of your childhood?

It isn't the minor Special FX work that is in question. It is his choice to alter story and character after the fact that is the problem. Sure, it's his right to do it I suppose, but should he?

stillakid
09-10-2004, 09:28 AM
Here's the dialogue change to Empire, Ian and JEJ sound great. Hopefully they had JEJ redo the 'Bring my Shuttle" scene.

Emperor: "We have a new enemy, the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."

Vader: "How is that possible?"

Emperor: "Search your feelings, Lord Vader, you will know it to be true. He could destroy us."

Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Aside from the Hayden Ghost change, this is by far the worst change I've heard about yet. Both are HUGE mistakes. All I can say is thank god for digital technology so that REAL fans of Star Wars can reedit the Saga into something watchable. I mean, seriously... :rolleyes:

Kidhuman
09-10-2004, 09:34 AM
Aside from the Hayden Ghost change, this is by far the worst change I've heard about yet. Both are HUGE mistakes. All I can say is thank god for digital technology so that REAL fans of Star Wars can reedit the Saga into something watchable. I mean, seriously... :rolleyes:


I agree, that is a horrible change. But I say why edit? You can get the bootlegs of the OT. NOt this crap Lucas is trying to pass off to us. Its kind of like thinking your going to drink iced tea, but it is really soda. :beard:

El Chuxter
09-10-2004, 01:13 PM
There are some more pics at thedigitalbits.com. The English writing being stricken in favor of Aurabesh is a good change, as is the inclusion of the Senate, but I wonder about the Temple.

If (as all movie and EU sources state explicitly) Palpatine systematically eradicated all traces of the Jedi, and in less than 20 years turned public opinion completely against them with his propaganda, why would he leave the Temple standing? Unless the rumors of him housing his throne room there in ANH:AE are true. . . .

stillakid
09-10-2004, 07:04 PM
I agree, that is a horrible change. But I say why edit? You can get the bootlegs of the OT. NOt this crap Lucas is trying to pass off to us. Its kind of like thinking your going to drink iced tea, but it is really soda. :beard:

I wasn't clear. What I meant was that we can take all the POSITIVE cosmetic changes and cut together a "better" version of the OT leaving out all the nonsense story and character alterations.

The Prequels will be their own kind of challenge to slice and dice into something watchable, but I think it can be done.

Kidhuman
09-10-2004, 10:41 PM
What I meant was that we can take all the POSITIVE cosmetic changes and cut together a "better" version of the OT leaving out all the nonsense story and character alterations.:beard:



Now I understand. Makes sense.

Deoxyribonucleic
09-11-2004, 12:47 AM
The Prequels will be their own kind of challenge to slice and dice into something watchable, but I think it can be done.

Meh, it'd take less time and energy to make completely new movies! :Pirate: :Ogre: :cheeky:

Darkness Shroud
09-12-2004, 06:58 AM
I watched Star Wars : Empire of dreams on the Biography channel last night and the repeat this morning. This documentary will be on the dvd's. I have seen many 'making of' type programs before, but this one has a lot of humour and behind the seens footage ive not seen before. Well worth watching again either on tv or the dvd's.:)

stillakid
09-13-2004, 12:27 PM
I watched Star Wars : Empire of dreams on the Biography channel last night and the repeat this morning. This documentary will be on the dvd's. I have seen many 'making of' type programs before, but this one has a lot of humour and behind the seens footage ive not seen before. Well worth watching again either on tv or the dvd's.:)

I TIVO'd it last night. :D

Toad
09-13-2004, 04:00 PM
Not only that, the one showed on A&E was the shortened version (2 hours, minus commercials, probably 90-95 minutes at most); the one on the DVD is rumored to be 151 minutes. Can't wait!! It was an excellent documentary - no doubt about it. Hammil, Fisher, and Ford were all very engaging....too bad the first and third didn't participate in the commentaries.... :(

El Chuxter
09-15-2004, 07:01 PM
Here's an Associated Press interview with Uncle George himself, courtesy of Yahoo News (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=493&ncid=790&e=4&u=/ap/20040915/ap_en_mo/film_q_a_george_lucas):


'Star Wars' Trilogy Debuts on DVD

Wed Sep 15, 3:27 PM ET

By DAVID GERMAIN, AP Movie Writer

SAN RAFAEL, Calif. - George Lucas never figured on a 30-year career as a space pilot. Once "Star Wars" shot into hyperspace, though, he found it hard to come back down to Earth.

Making its DVD debut Tuesday, Lucas' original sci-fi trilogy "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" began as an experimental foray into old-time studio moviemaking for Lucas, whose first two films had been far removed from usual Hollywood sensibilities.

Lucas' sci-fi satire "THX 1138" had been a commercial dud, but the energetic "American Graffiti" with its driving soundtrack and multi-character point of view scored with audiences, giving the director clout to try something bigger that had been on his mind.

"I'd already started this other idea, which was to do a kind of a classic action adventure film using sets," Lucas said over lunch at his 2,600-acre Skywalker Ranch. "I'd never worked on a set, I'd never worked at a studio. Never made a traditional movie. So I said, `I'm going to do this once, just to see what it's like, what it's like to actually design everything, work on a soundstage, do an old-fashioned 1930s movie.

"And I'll do it in that mode from the 1930s Saturday matinee serials, using kind of 1930s and '40s sensibilities, and I'll base it on sort of mythological motifs and icons. I'll just put it together in a modern form, and I'll have fun. That's how I got into that. I did it because it was an interesting move into an area that I thought I'd never go into."

Three decades later, Lucas is preparing to launch the last of his six "Star Wars" films. Next summer brings "Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith," completing the prequel trilogy that tells the story of young Anakin Skywalker's metamorphosis into the villainous Darth Vader of the original three films.

Fans have eagerly awaited the first three "Star Wars" films on DVD, a release Lucas initially intended to delay until he finished "Episode III."

Some will be miffed that the original theatrical versions are not included in the "Star Wars" boxed set, which features only the special-edition versions Lucas issued in the late 1990s, with added effects and footage, including a scene between Harrison Ford (news)'s Han Solo and crime lord Jabba the Hutt in the first "Star Wars."

AP: Why did you change your mind and decide to put the original three movies out on DVD now?

Lucas: Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.

AP: Why did you rework the original trilogy into the special-edition versions in the late 1990s?

Lucas: To me, the special edition ones are the films I wanted to make. Anybody that makes films knows the film is never finished. It's abandoned or it's ripped out of your hands, and it's thrown into the marketplace, never finished. It's a very rare experience where you find a filmmaker who says, "That's exactly what I wanted. I got everything I needed. I made it just perfect. I'm going to put it out there." And even most artists, most painters, even composers would want to come back and redo their work now. They've got a new perspective on it, they've got more resources, they have better technology, and they can fix or finish the things that were never done. ... I wanted to actually finish the film the way it was meant to be when I was originally doing it. At the beginning, people went, "Don't you like it?" I said, "Well, the film only came out to be 25 or 30 percent of what I wanted it to be." They said, "What are you talking about?" So finally, I stopped saying that, but if you read any interviews for about an eight- or nine-year period there, it was all about how disappointed I was and how unhappy I was and what a dismal experience it was. You know, it's too bad you need to get kind of half a job done and never get to finish it. So this was my chance to finish it.

AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?

Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.

AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?

Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.

AP: After "Episode III," will you ever revisit "Star Wars"?

Lucas: Ultimately, I'm going to probably move it into television and let other people take it. I'm sort of preserving the feature film part for what has happened and never go there again, but I can go off into various offshoots and things. You know, I've got offshoot novels, I've got offshoot comics. So it's very easy to say, "Well, OK, that's that genre, and I'll find a really talented person to take it and create it." Just like the comic books and the novels are somebody else's way of doing it. I don't mind that. Some of it might turn out to be pretty good. If I get the right people involved, it could be interesting.

So another confirmation of the TV show(s).

But I don't remember him constantly saying in interviews how disappointed he was in Star Wars. Sounds like more of his revisionist history.

Kidhuman
09-15-2004, 07:08 PM
AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?

Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.



Selfish b*****d. Those films are what made you. Not this crap your spewing out now.

Beast
09-15-2004, 07:12 PM
I remember him saying it often, El Chuxter. And I'm glad he was finally very blunt about why he's not going to release the originals. And that if people want them, they are out there on VHS. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Beast
09-15-2004, 07:15 PM
Selfish b*****d. Those films are what made you. Not this crap your spewing out now.
Yeah, god forbid he do what he wants to do with movies he's paying for. And with the movies he paid to restore and release. Instead of listening to a bunch of rabid fans that can't even agree what they want. How dare he. :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
09-15-2004, 07:17 PM
JJB, there are 2 fans of SW, the ones who like the SE's and the ones who made it so popular beyond belief, so they the people who like the SE's can like them. He is forgetting about what made him, and thinking about what he made. It would be like Chris Carter going back and sticking agent Doggett into all the Mulder eps. of X-files.

El Chuxter
09-15-2004, 07:20 PM
No, that would be closer to him putting Boba Fett in ANH.

Oh, wait a second. :rolleyes:

Beast
09-15-2004, 07:22 PM
That's a vast over statement of the facts, especially given there isn't that many changes to the saga as a whole. Other than Humpty Dumpty Ghost Anakin being replaced in a manner that makes sense, nothing other than some effects shots have changed. And nothing that alters the story as much as some are claiming it has. And there are more than two types of Star Wars fans. Like he says, Star Wars fans all have different opinions. And the only one that matters is the person paying for the movies to be made and released. Like has been posted numerous times, there are alternatives if you want the original Workprint cuts. VHS and Laserdisc, as well as Bootlegs for some. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

El Chuxter
09-15-2004, 07:27 PM
JJB, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. :) I'd personally like to have every version of SW ever made, from the rough cut through the Archival Editions, including all the variant TPM and AOTC cuts, on the highest quality format possible. But Lucas doesn't want to give it to us, even as bonus material. Which is sad, because the ones available now (and even the versions released on VHS) aren't the movies that made him a superstar.

But do you at least agree with me that, cool though it may look, Boba in ANH is completely and totally gratuitous?

plasticfetish
09-15-2004, 10:28 PM
if you want the original Workprint cuts.Are you calling the original theatrical release of this movie a "workprint" now? :confused:

Beast
09-15-2004, 11:27 PM
Well, it was released unfinished. Perhaphs "workprint" is a bit extreme. But I will standby at the very least, unfinished. It no different then Star Trek: The Motion Picture that was released unfinished, and finally completed for the recent DVD release. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
09-15-2004, 11:42 PM
That's a vast over statement of the facts, especially given there isn't that many changes to the saga as a whole. Other than Humpty Dumpty Ghost Anakin being replaced in a manner that makes sense, nothing other than some effects shots have changed. And nothing that alters the story as much as some are claiming it has.

Yeah, many of the changes do change the story that much. This is an example of the minority of the fanbase who chooses to apologize for Lucas whenever possible.

As an aside to all the apologists out there, via an inside connection I have who just met with Lucas a short time ago, the man himself admitted that he essentially f'd up with the Prequels. Of course he'll never ever ever come out in public and admit it, but, well, there you go. They are what they are and that's it. :ermm:

plasticfetish
09-16-2004, 12:18 AM
They are what they are and that's it. :ermm:Yep. :ermm:

But I will standby at the very least, unfinished.And you know what? To me that's fine... and if that's what Lucas wants to say about all of this now, then that's fine also. It'd just be most appropriate, as far as I'm concerned, if we could get a true "archival" version of the original films on DVD. ("Mistakes," matte lines and all.)

Star Trek: The Motion Picture... well, same thing, but in that case it really needed some help. ;) Though just the same, from a historic standpoint, I think the "original" versions of a film should always be widely available to the masses at large.

Lucas' excuse that turning the OT out in it's first version would be too expensive is lame IMO. We all know that he'd make his money back and then some.

2-1B
09-16-2004, 12:22 AM
I like how Lucas talks about people throwing rocks at him and then in the next post, sure enough, stillakidhuman is right there, throwing rocks at him. :D

I agree that Boba in ANH is completely gratuitous. :)

Come on stillakid, you gotta give us more info on this meeting with Lucas. Details, man ! :crazed:

mini-rock
09-16-2004, 12:25 AM
Like has been posted numerous times, there are alternatives if you want the original Workprint cuts. VHS and Laserdisc, as well as Bootlegs for some. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

That's the truth brotha, although I don't see myself pulling out the LD's anytime soon now that I have the "finished" DVD's. :)

Beast
09-16-2004, 12:54 AM
I think my beautiful Original and SE Laserdiscs are going to be retired with the new DVD releases. Honestly, when the SE LD's came out I stopped watching the Original Cuts. And I don't see myself watching the SE cuts when the 'Final' cuts are released in less then a week. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

mini-rock
09-16-2004, 01:07 AM
Yeah, I did the same thing when I got the SE's on LD. After seeing the DVD's this past week though (the way the movies were meant to be shown) I don't see any reason to view the "unfinished" versions again. Well, maybe in a few years...for a goof. :)

stillakid
09-16-2004, 10:39 AM
I like how Lucas talks about people throwing rocks at him and then in the next post, sure enough, stillakidhuman is right there, throwing rocks at him. :D
Ya know, it really doesn't matter what we say. He's going to do whatever he wants and will always have a few guys (JJB, MR) out there cheering every last thing he does. I mean, Lucas could slaughter their families and it would still be okay, because, you know, that was his choice. :rolleyes:


Come on stillakid, you gotta give us more info on this meeting with Lucas. Details, man ! :crazed:
Ya know, it really doesn't matter what he says anymore. He's going to do whatever he wants and will always have a few guys (JJB, MR) out there cheering every last thing he does.

;)

scruffziller
09-16-2004, 01:31 PM
Selfish b*****d. Those films are what made you. Not this crap your spewing out now.
Yea exactly. He refers that he is sorry we fell in love with half-made films. But the half-made films got him the money to redo the films. He is talking out his backside. Otherwise his so-called ultimate vision would have never been realized. Is he saying that '77,'80. and '83 never mattered? Whether he is lying or telling the truth, at least he gives a valid excuse for not also releasing the original release additionally, "it would cost millisons of dollars.":ermm:

Hellboy
09-16-2004, 06:19 PM
I think my beautiful Original and SE Laserdiscs are going to be retired with the new DVD releases. Honestly, when the SE LD's came out I stopped watching the Original Cuts. And I don't see myself watching the SE cuts when the 'Final' cuts are released in less then a week. :)

This is exactly how I feel too.

I can understand that the original version is something that fans want to own but what I don't understand is the hostility towards Lucas for wanting to change some things in the OT that he felt were inferior due to the limitations of the technology at the time. Sure certain elements don't come off as well as they did in the original version, like the whole Greedo shooting first mess, but for the most part I think the changes make the whole saga a more cohesive product. Obviously people who hate the prequels are going to be opposed to this so for those I recommend either picking up the originals on VHS or Laserdisc like some of us here have or wait until after EPIII when a more comprehensive edition of the OT is released, and you know it will be.

When you consider we weren't even supposed to get the OT on DVD until well after EPIII came out I find it rather exciting that we get a touched up version to view in preparation for the final episode in the saga. If you prefer the original version then simply pass on this set and pick another option. Its not like Lucas had all the old copies of the original versions confiscated and destroyed. They're still out there for those of you who prefer to view it as you experienced it as a youth.

stillakid
09-16-2004, 08:23 PM
This is exactly how I feel too.

I can understand that the original version is something that fans want to own but what I don't understand is the hostility towards Lucas for wanting to change some things in the OT that he felt were inferior due to the limitations of the technology at the time. Sure certain elements don't come off as well as they did in the original version, like the whole Greedo shooting first mess, but for the most part I think the changes make the whole saga a more cohesive product. Obviously people who hate the prequels are going to be opposed to this so for those I recommend either picking up the originals on VHS or Laserdisc like some of us here have or wait until after EPIII when a more comprehensive edition of the OT is released, and you know it will be.

When you consider we weren't even supposed to get the OT on DVD until well after EPIII came out I find it rather exciting that we get a touched up version to view in preparation for the final episode in the saga. If you prefer the original version then simply pass on this set and pick another option. Its not like Lucas had all the old copies of the original versions confiscated and destroyed. They're still out there for those of you who prefer to view it as you experienced it as a youth.
While you're right in principle, the issue has been brought up before about us still owning the old versions. Nothing lasts forever and you're hard pressed to find decent copies of the original versions of the trilogy anywhere. I mean, unless you have a friend with a Laserdisk player, you're SOL and stuck with the Special Editions or these new SuperNifty Editions of the stories. Which brings up the more major point...he's not just "fixing" old bad special effects. In a lot of cases, he's altering actual character and story (ie, Greedo shoots first). This isn't just a case of a few cosmetic changes because the technology improved. He's making wholesale and often detrimental alterations...and why? Why would he do this? He had high quality writers who he himself hired and trusted at the time who helped him make a billion dollars. And now, as we saw with Episode I, Lucas feels like he can take on that job of writing (and rewriting) himself even though he not only admitted to hating the writing process, but has proven that he is terrible at it still.

So, yeah, it's his blah blah blah. I get it and so does everyone else. But that doesn't stop the hurt man. :( It cuts deep....it cuts deep... :cry:

Turbowars
09-17-2004, 12:35 AM
Lucas.................

The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.


Gee, now Lucas who are the people that enabled you to live the life you live? Us, the fans of your OT flims. I just can't see why you would turn your back on what made you a famous and loved film maker. Jerk!

mini-rock
09-17-2004, 01:34 AM
I can understand that the original version is something that fans want to own but what I don't understand is the hostility towards Lucas for wanting to change some things in the OT that he felt were inferior due to the limitations of the technology at the time.

Not only are they hostile towards Lucas, but the people who actually like and accept the changes as well. Can we blame them? I mean, if you look at it as a contest, we won. We got what we wanted, and they didn't. Even though we have known for almost 10 years that the OT would not be released again ("One Last Time") they chose to believe it would, and in fact banked on it coming to DVD. If they choose to be mad at Lucas for their lack of foresight then let them because as we all know no matter how much they complain the DVD's will be the same, and unfortunately (for them) there aren't enough of them to hurt the sales of the "finished" DVD's or to get the originals on DVD. Not enough of them to make a difference. :)

plasticfetish
09-17-2004, 02:14 AM
I don't really consider it to be a contest. I think you're missing the point of most people's objections. And...

no matter how much they complain the DVD's will be the same, and unfortunately (for them) there aren't enough of them to hurt the sales of the "finished" DVD's or to get the originals on DVD. Not enough of them to make a difference. :)I think we should really wait and see what the numbers are for this DVD release.

(I'm banking on some healthy markdowns on the set a month or so from now -- so I'm gonna wait a while.)

The "finished" DVDs. Har! Can you imagine (to look at this in reverse) if 20+ years ago, Lucas had put these movies out and said, "Well, here they are folks. Go see 'em in the theaters, but don't get too excited, 'cause I'm not really sure they're finished. heck, I may just change them in a few decades anyway."

And people wonder why the prequels don't generate as much enthusiasm today, as the originals did back when they first came out. It's like getting excited over a mouthwash commercial -- you're just going to see another version of it eventually, so who cares?

2-1B
09-17-2004, 04:00 AM
stillakid, I'm really curious. See, I could take a dozen folks from this forum alone, folks who think GLu effed up the prequels, yet I can probably get several different answers as to what he did wrong (with some overlapping answers, of course).

So I'm just wondering as to what area(s) George had in mind.

Thanks. :)

JEDIpartner
09-17-2004, 09:02 AM
The problem that I have with all of the complaining is that the essential plot hasn't changed at all. It's just the visuals and a minute amount of character motivation.

Darth Rend
09-17-2004, 09:42 AM
Lucas.................

The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.


Gee, now Lucas who are the people that enabled you to live the life you live? Us, the fans of your OT flims. I just can't see why you would turn your back on what made you a famous and loved film maker. Jerk!
Actually I think you are the people who are throwing stones at him all the time.

Darth Rend
09-17-2004, 09:56 AM
Whether he is lying or telling the truth, at least he gives a valid excuse for not also releasing the original release additionally, "it would cost millisons of dollars.":ermm:LOL This just reminded me of something I noticed last night.

On the "Making Episode One" feature ont he EP1 bonus disk, watch the scene where Lucas, Macallum, and Knoll are watching the side-by side tests for Jar Jar (The head replacement vs entirely digital Jar Jar). When Knoll tells Lucas that the Digital Jar Jar will cost alot less and take about half the man-hours, Lucas Says "So basically, we spent $100,000.00 on the Jar Jar Suit we didn't need to spend!" Watch John Knoll's face, he kinda smirks to himself like "I KNEW you'd say that, you cheap bastard!"

Yeah I believe Lucas considers a few million too much to spend.

stillakid
09-17-2004, 10:20 AM
I've got a legimate question for the likes of MiniRock and JarJarBinks. So, if each new succeeding version of a Star Wars film is inherently better than what preceded it, the implication is that the preceding versions were "unfinished" and therefore unwatchable garbage. So given that, what attracted you to the Saga in the first place? Are you naturally attracted to unfinished bad movies or did you have prescient ability to see Lucas's re-imagining coming? :confused:

stillakid
09-17-2004, 10:21 AM
stillakid, I'm really curious. See, I could take a dozen folks from this forum alone, folks who think GLu effed up the prequels, yet I can probably get several different answers as to what he did wrong (with some overlapping answers, of course).

So I'm just wondering as to what area(s) George had in mind.

Thanks. :)

I'm afraid that the information I was given wasn't that specific. I'm sorry. But I'll try to clarify that if possible the next chance I get. :)

JEDIpartner
09-17-2004, 11:59 AM
As I said previously...


The problem that I have with all of the complaining is that the essential plot hasn't changed at all. It's just the visuals and a minute amount of character motivation.

Darth Rend
09-17-2004, 02:43 PM
As an aside to all the apologists out there, via an inside connection I have who just met with Lucas a short time ago, the man himself admitted that he essentially f'd up with the Prequels. Of course he'll never ever ever come out in public and admit it, but, well, there you go. They are what they are and that's it. :ermm:
Ok so let me get this straight.....

When Lucas says "These are the films the way I intend them to be" you can argue "No! it's that fans that make the descision! You owe us the Films the way WE see them."

And yet When Lucas says "Yeah, I f'ed up on the prequels." Then we are supposed to accept it and say "Hey Lucas said it himself??"

I enjoyed the prequels. I LOVED episode 2. I think it was as good as EMPIRE. Even if Lucas comes out and has a press release where he says they are terrible, I will still think they are great movies. After all, Lucas is also saying that the OT you prize so highly is inferior to the new versions. So why does his opinion of the PT hold any wieght? Because THAT opinion supports your argument?

assuming he actually said it.

As far as the "Lucas apologists" you keep refering to, I'm not apologizing for anything. As far as I'm concerned, Lucas has nothing to apologize FOR.

Hellboy
09-17-2004, 05:39 PM
The problem that I have with all of the complaining is that the essential plot hasn't changed at all. It's just the visuals and a minute amount of character motivation.

Exactly partnr. I also think its pretty sad that people have already condemned these final versions before they've even seen them.

I really don't think the unhappy fans are as mad about the original versions not coming to DVD as they are about the fact that Lucas wanted to revise his work yet again and have those become the accepted versions. Even if he included the original cuts in this set people would still be complaining that the updated versions somehow offend them because they aren't exactly the way they wanted them. Just because you support someone's vision and that person makes millions as a result of it's broad appeal doesn't mean you now have a say in what he does with that product's future. For every fan who thinks the OT should've been left exactly the way they were seen 20+ years ago there is another who wants to see them mature into the films Lucas always wanted them to be.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-17-2004, 06:47 PM
I've got a legimate question for the likes of MiniRock and JarJarBinks. So, if each new succeeding version of a Star Wars film is inherently better than what preceded it, the implication is that the preceding versions were "unfinished" and therefore unwatchable garbage. So given that, what attracted you to the Saga in the first place? Are you naturally attracted to unfinished bad movies or did you have prescient ability to see Lucas's re-imagining coming? :confused:
I'll take a swing at this one, as I'm on the same page with them.

Everyone on here, obviously, likes Star Wars (except for some of you, I still can't quite figure that one out). But, can anyone honestly, truly say that the original editions or Special Editions are as perfect as they can be? No. When I saw the original editions last summer for the first time, I was blown away . . . at, compared to the SEs, how bad they looked. There wasn't a Wampa. Mos Eisley was tiny and kind of crappy. The Rebo band was just a joke, and not the kind Lucas was intending for it to be. I could tell what was fake, and damn, it was fake. There were brown boxes around the X-wings and TIE Fighters, for crying out loud!!! I don't think anyone knew how bad it would look compared to the new versions of 20+ years from then, they were just in love with it, flaws and all.

For the Special Editions, most of the changes were for the better. No more brown boxes. No more tiny, sh**ty Mos Eisley or Rebo band. We got to see Jabba the Hutt two movies early, as we were supposed to. The Wampa was awesome! Luke's speeder didn't emit a strange orange glow. The effects were, on the whole, vastly improved. After seeing the SEs, then seeing the OEs, it was just funny.

However, and I am in somewhat agreement with you stilla, some of the changes were just bad. Luke's scream was unnecessary. Seeing Jabba was cool, but looking back on it, he looks like crap. Greedo shot first, I can see where people might bellyache about that one, but I thought he shot in the old one too anyway. A lot of the new CG effects looked like doo doo, I don't think the technology was really ready for it in 1997 (or even for TPM in 1999). But it helped get it out to thousands of new people, myself included.

In this new DVD release, from what I've seen/read, most of the changes are just fixing the effects. The dianoga? Doesn't look like claymation anymore. Jabba (thank God!) actually looks like the same character from TPM and ROTJ, like he should. Greedo shoots first, but it doesn't look so dang bad. Everything just looks better. Naboo was added, as to bridge the whole saga even more. Boba is now voiced by his clone source, like he should be. Palpatine is played by the same guy who plays him the rest of the saga. Plus, Luke doesn't scream any more. And Anakin was put into it and is played by Hayden Christensen.

Oh boy, here we go. :rolleyes:

I approve of all the changes, even the Anakin ghost one. Anakin died in ROTS, his spirit should look as it did when he died. Yes, he was "re-born" in ROTJ at the end, but I still think that he should look young again. Obi-Wan and Yoda don't need to as they died as old men. For all we know, five minutes after ROTJ ends, Obi-Wan and Yoda look like twelve-year-olds, maybe they can change their ghostly appearance at their whim. I don't know.

But the whole deal is, honestly, Sebastian Shaw wasn't that important. Yes yes, Luke is finally seeing his father and all, you think he should be an old guy that never really existed. But now Hayden's standing there and smiling for three seconds, big whoop! It's not stupid, it's not an insult to Shaw's memory, but it's a connection to the new films.

What I and JJB are getting at is, we still like the old ones. Heck, I for one love 'em. But I just like these new ones even more. If George Lucas could have used today's technology back then, these are what the movies would've looked like anyway.

And, just wondering, why do you always have to shoot down other people's ideas and comments? Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to have a personal vendetta against them. You are entitled to your opinion. What you seem to forget is, everyone else is, too. And having one different from your own doesn't make someone stupid.

Now shut up and get a laserdisc player. :D

Turbowars
09-17-2004, 07:45 PM
LOL, I'm not throwing rocks at the guy. I just didn't like how he said it. I want the DVD and welcome the changes, but would have really liked the untouched OT.

Darth Rend
09-17-2004, 10:48 PM
LOL, I'm not throwing rocks at the guy. I just didn't like how he said it. I want the DVD and welcome the changes, but would have really liked the untouched OT.I think basically we're all on roughly the same side here. (With a few unfortunate exceptions.) I don't think any of us MIND if they released the OT as well, no one would complian if both were avialable. There are just some of us who understand Lucas's descision, and those who flat out don't agree with it.

I am enough of a STAR WARS nut that I would gladly pay 250.00 for a boxed set of all three OT release, all three new release, AND the Special Edition from 97. Hell throw in a bonus disc with the legendary "rough cut" of ANH, and versions with deleted scenes......hell I'll gladly buy every version the man puts out.

I can however see from his standpoint why you wouldn't want 2 different versions of your vision out there. There really needs to be only one "official" version, if just for continuity's sake. Just the same none of us who are arguing Lucas's point would MIND if they released the others as a "vintage classic edition" or something, but the officially story will always be the most recently updated version.

I can also understand his point about the fans....you ever notice how many people bash the guy, say he's lost it...even seen people insult his WIEGHT for god's sake. If you were a filmaker, you think maybe you would take it to heart eventually? I think its sad to think after giving us the Star Wars Saga, and bringing much enjoyment into all our lives, he feels like the fans hate him (and because many spend all thier time saying how much they do!). I personally blame this as the reason we are not getting 7,8 and 9. Would you spend another 12-15 years of your life doing something for a group of people who were just going to scream about how much you've ruined it?

stillakid
09-17-2004, 10:54 PM
And, just wondering, why do you always have to shoot down other people's ideas and comments? Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to have a personal vendetta against them. You are entitled to your opinion. What you seem to forget is, everyone else is, too. And having one different from your own doesn't make someone stupid.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however not every opinion is an informed opinion therefore not every opinion is worthy of respect. Hitler's choice to annihilate millions of people because his opinion of them wasn't very high.

It's one thing to enjoy something. That I have no problem with. I enjoy stupid crap from time to time too. But I'm capable of recognizing when a story (for instance) is subpar but enjoyable all the same. The opposite occurs in regard to Star Wars when every decision that Lucas makes is proclaimed as an "improvement" just because he did it. Well, you may not be aware, but he is human too and capable of making mistakes like everyone else. Not everything he does is coated in gold.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-17-2004, 11:42 PM
Alright kids, the Man is here to lay down the law: i WANT EVERYTHING to be cooled down here IMMEDIATELY. This entire thread is going way off course.

Now, i don't want any replies about who said this and who said that and whatnot, but I WANT IT STOPPED, NOW.

Consider this to be a warning to EVERYBODY. Cool it.

Veers
09-17-2004, 11:57 PM
I am going to get it but I do not like the new additions they made to the movies. Should have kept the original Anakin in the movie, take out the Greedo shooting han scene out, and take out that extra Luke scream on Bespin. Too much stuff we do not need. Should have made the original movies on the DVD with new additions.

mace78
09-18-2004, 12:13 AM
on a lighter note, I picked up these dvds today. first, let me say that the picture and sound quality completely blew me away! It was so much better than I had even imagined! As for the changes, I've only watched ANH so far. The Han/Greedo scene looks better than it did in the SE, but it's still not great. The same can be said about the Jabba scene. They didn't add the senate scene that has been rumored. The episode 3 preview was nice too. It doesn't show much, but I'm definitely looking forward to the trailer now!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
09-18-2004, 12:17 AM
Mace, i must ask: HOW DID YOU GET THEM?!!? Im' really curious now..im' in ohio too!!! hehehehehehe :D


I'm gettin' REALLY giddy about these bad boys. so so giddy! :D

Darth Rend
09-18-2004, 12:27 AM
Come on now, SOMEONE in Massachusetts has to be selling them early???

mini-rock
09-18-2004, 12:32 AM
on a lighter note, I picked up these dvds today. first, let me say that the picture and sound quality completely blew me away! It was so much better than I had even imagined! As for the changes, I've only watched ANH so far. The Han/Greedo scene looks better than it did in the SE, but it's still not great. The same can be said about the Jabba scene. They didn't add the senate scene that has been rumored. The episode 3 preview was nice too. It doesn't show much, but I'm definitely looking forward to the trailer now!


I know what you mean. The opening to ANH was nothing like I heard before. Wait until you get to disc two and hear the Hoth battle in all it's DD-EX glory. :)

stillakid
09-18-2004, 10:01 AM
I wasn't comparing Hitler to enjoying a movie. :rolleyes: I mean, get serious.

What I was saying was that opinions in general are not always valid, even if they are your own. That is in response to the general response I usually get that everyone's opinion should be "respected" no matter what they think. I disagree and call upon one of the most misguided opinions of all time to illustrate that point. And like clockwork, some of you jump to erroneous conclusions in a further failed attempt to discredit and smear me. Puhlease.

mace78
09-18-2004, 02:23 PM
Mace, i must ask: HOW DID YOU GET THEM?!!? Im' really curious now..im' in ohio too!!! hehehehehehe :D


I'm gettin' REALLY giddy about these bad boys. so so giddy! :D


There are a few CD stores in the Dayton area that just decided to start selling them yesterday. If you're in this area, I'd be more than happy to tell you where to go!

scruffziller
09-18-2004, 03:45 PM
I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it.Does that mean that you are going to give back the money to the people who spent money to see it in theatres, bought the VHS/Laserdisks, and all the toy merchandise; prior to 1997? That would be taking responsibility for it.;)

But I am excited to be getting the new versions at midnight on Tuesday. And load them right next to the other 2 sets of SW DVDs I am also proud to own.

mini-rock
09-18-2004, 04:49 PM
So anyway, there have been reports of the "Nations Largest Retailer" having these in stock now. So for anyone who is still looking at getting this a couple day's early, and happens to be going to one of their stores might want to check the video section. :)

JON9000
09-19-2004, 09:58 PM
About this Greedo business, perhaps he was meant to shoot first, but I think it was in the context of the original McQuarrie drawings where it was a stand up blaster duel.

Having Greedo sitting across a table three feet away and missing by a mile is absolutely farcical.

Of course many other elements are fantastic, but I really wouldn't have such a problem wit the Greedo shot if it were believable.

and for the record, any one who disagrees is completely cool. :eek:

Tonysmo
09-21-2004, 08:24 AM
so.. workin Midnights does have some advantages..

I left last night and snuck up to the 24hr walmart.

When I got back to work, Trilogy in hand, I nabbed the nearest DVD equiped laptop and settled in.. ( yeah, I was still watchin my alarms.. )

So ANH starts up and suddenly Im surrounded by others.. always nice when work turns into movie night..

I thought the colors were outstanding. you can certianly tell its been enhanced.

Greedo no longer shoots 1st, but more at the same time.

Jabba still looks to cgi, but indeed a bit better. . I still cringe when Han steps on his tail.

Thats really all I noticed, except for the vivid colors. They really stand out now.

ah yes, I remember they seemed to have added a bit more to the hyperspace.

Now to go home and get the full experience on the Bose system.

darthdeogg
09-21-2004, 11:23 AM
Watching A New Hope right now. Just the Star Destroyer flying overhead is worth the price of the set!

And then there's when The Man (Darth) appears!!

megaprime33
09-21-2004, 12:06 PM
Just got an email yesterday actually that my set has been shipped from amazon. I tracked it today and its already like 5 towns over from where I am, but the delivery says I will get it tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get it early! Can't wait!

Beast
09-21-2004, 06:13 PM
Well, I found another change that hasn't been reported so far. At the end of Empire Strikes Back when Vader goes to the bridge, Admiral Piett and the Officer behind him were originally from a flipped shot since they only built one side of the bridge. Which is common, but because of the rank bars it sticks out like a sore thumb. It was corrected for this version, which is a great change that should have been done in '97. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Mr. JabbaJohnL
09-21-2004, 07:13 PM
I'm gonna watch the films this weekend, but I've been filling up on Bonus Material. That stuff is awesome! Some of those trailers are priceless!!!

When you put the TPM and AOTC DVDs next to the OT ones, it looks so cool.

My mom and I were some of the only people at Wal-Mart this morning when we got it. :D

JediTricks
09-22-2004, 03:27 PM
JJB, there are dozens of flipped shots throughout the Saga, almost all of which I would like to see fixed, but I am hoping that is not the ONLY one they actually fixed or I'll be a sad panda.

Beast
09-22-2004, 05:34 PM
Sadly as far as I can tell, it's the only one that is fixed. The Boba Fett shots in Jabba Palace are still sadly flipped. It's common to flip shots in cases like this, it happens in almost every movie as I'm sure you know. Usually it's not noticable, unless things like rank badges scream 'flipped shot'. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Slicker
09-22-2004, 05:57 PM
The flipped shot of Lando when he's talking to Han before boarding the Falcon in Jedi is still the same. You don't really notice them unless you are looking for them or know they're there. Unfortunately I know they're there so I notice them every time.

The one persons opinion I really want to hear is stillakid. I can't wait to see what he has to say. It can only be nice things I'm sure.:D