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r3pohh yeah
02-13-2004, 03:24 AM
my speculation is as follows.

darth sidious used to be a jedi named sifa-dyas (or the earlier sido-dyas) in fact he was the head of the jedi council untill he presumably died about 10 years before AOTC. sifa-dyas was of course one of darth sidiouses many alter egos. this explains who deleted the kamino sysyet from the jedi archives. (yoda>"only a jedi could have ereased those" it also explains who crreated the army and why. darth sidious/senator palpatine-supreme chamsalor plapatine/sifa-dyas must have been a busy man.

i hope ep. 3 flashes back and shows what palps looked like when he was the head of the jedi order. i presume he looked super old like in ROTJ , after all he can make himself look younger than he really is (hence how the jedi didnt know that sifa-dyas and palps was the same dude).

comments???????????

arctangent
02-13-2004, 08:43 AM
after all he can make himself look younger than he really is.

comments???????????

er how does he do this, exactly. and if he can, why does he look so old and decrepid in rotj. i think the jedi might just recognise him when this senator from naboo turns up suddenly looking suspiciously like a former member of the council. older or younger, that's an awfully distinctive nose that darth sideous/chancellor palpatine posesses.

scruffziller
02-13-2004, 09:35 AM
I used to think that if he would somehow be able to look different. Doesn't Palps have some kind of traceable history and known by people on Naboo?

mabudonicus
02-19-2004, 01:17 PM
THIS thread touches on this theme, sorta...

My idea is still strong in me mind, that Syfo dyas was the head of the jedi(AND mace's master, I think) and left the council after performing a huge mind-trick on them (no need to change his appearance, also explains why no-one seems to care to even try to recall what exactly happened to the guy when the question comes up)

I'm pretty sure this is right... and 2005 is getting closer by the day... WOOOOO!!!!!

Not exactly sure about my prediction for the "final fight" now, I don't think GL has as good an imagination as I do.

2-1B
02-19-2004, 02:11 PM
Unless E3 tells me differently, I assume that it was Dooku who erased Kamino.

Pendo
02-19-2004, 02:38 PM
I've always associated Sidious with Sifo-Dyas from early Episode II spoilers. Sifo-Dyas was originally called Sido-Dyas and was used when the Kaminoians spoke of Darth Sidious. The name was changed because his name too closely resembled Sidious.

IMO it makes more sense that Sifo-Dyas errased Kamino rather than Dooku as it was Sifo-Dyas who ordered the clone army.

PENDO!

jedi master sal
02-19-2004, 03:33 PM
Okay, I'm going to bring up this old "argument" again, because some of what's been said here plays well into the theory:

Palpatine is a clone of Sidious.

Early on Sidous clones himself (not with the Kaminoans as that would complicate things). We know presumably that there are other cloners out there from Dexster's comments in his diner.

Okay so he clones himself. The clone is put on the path of becoming a politician so that eventually Sidious can take his place.

Menawhile Sidious, who at this time is assuming his alter-ego as Sifo-Dyas (or Sido Dyas if you prefer) is running the council or is high in the order.

We know from EU books that Luke has used the force to alter his appearance so why not Sidious?

Sidious is so strong in the Force that he indeed blocks the Jedi from his real visage OR his real visage is known (he's old but not as he looks in ROTJ). The reason he looks so bad in ROTJ is the years of the Darkside eating away at him. Getting back to his being in charge of the Jedi or high in the order. At some point he decides to leave, being one of the 20 lost.

Now you may say hold on what about the clone and it's looking like Sidious, well for one the Jedi have either been tricked (his use of the force at changing his appearance or he looks much older because the darkside has in part started to eat at him). This could also be why he leaves the order or better yet is EXPELLED from the order. (That is to say, certain Jedi-most likely council members feel him using the darkside and try to bring him back but it's to late)(What better reason for taking over and killing them all...but I digress)

His clone doesn't look so old because he doesn't use the force, especially the darkside and in fact Sidious could have strip him of his force ability. This explains why the Jedi cannot sense Palpatine in the force like they would a Sith lord, because he doesn't have the ability or the (sudders to say it) midichlorians.

Now move along to EPIII! Once things are almost in place and the clones turn on the Jedi (from a HUGE mind swipe by Sidious), Sidious assumes power. Mace goes to confront/question Palpatine, but finds that Palpatine is not who he thought he was but is a Sith lord and figures out that he's been switched. He then realizes that this Sith Lord was once Sifo-Dyas and they go at it. Anakin plays a role in Mace's demise and the secret is kept safe.

At this point Sifo-Dyas looks much older than the clone Palpatine (again Darkside usage) but close enough that the general population do not question who he is. (Especially because they are now under Marshall law!) And the Republic becomes the EMPIRE.

Whew. Long explanation, but is has some plausability.

Even if you take the clone Palpy out of the equation, much of this theory could still be "true".


[EDIT] additional thoughts here!

Dooku is brought into the picture by Sidious. Sidious reveals himself and possibly he and Dooku were friends before he (Sidious) left or was expelled from the order. Now with Dooku being rich (He is a Count and we know that he has quite an inheritance) and charismatic, he (Sidious) see this as the perfect opportunity to start his funding of ordering the clones. It could be even true that right after Maul was killed Sidious-then Sifo-Dyas approched Dooku with his plan. Dooku was already disgusted with what the Jedi had become (you just need look at Qui-gon's feelings to get this too), so he goes along with the plan. Knowing that he will be one of the most powerful men in the galaxy. (Of course he could have been planning on usurping Sidious from the begining as well. (It's the way a Sith would work after all)

First Sifo-Dyas leaves the order (or again is expelled-which is more compelling IMO), then Dooku later. They do not want to leave at the same time as that would be very suspicious. However the Jedi would understand (but not agree with) Dooku's leaving because of his friendship with Sifo-Dyas.


What do think?
-Jedi Master Sal

2-1B
02-20-2004, 12:38 AM
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.

like I said,
Palpatine is not a clone of Sidious.

:D

Pendo
02-20-2004, 06:46 AM
Caesar's right. Lucas' right hand man (or "Yes Sir" man), Mr. McCallum, has said himself that the only clones in Episode III are that of Jango Fett. There are no other clones in the movie. That was a great sigh of relief :D.

PENDO!

arctangent
02-20-2004, 09:59 AM
Palpatine is a clone of Sidious.

Sidious is so strong in the Force that he indeed blocks the Jedi from his real visage OR his real visage is known...

His clone doesn't look so old because he doesn't use the force, especially the darkside and in fact Sidious could have strip him of his force ability. This explains why the Jedi cannot sense Palpatine in the force like they would a Sith lord, because he doesn't have the ability or the (sudders to say it) midichlorians.

why would sideous need to make a clone of himself to hide behind? the jedi can't feel his presence anyway so why bother. it doesn't matter whether he is darth sideous or is palpatine he can mask himself from the jedi.

jedi master sal
02-20-2004, 10:30 AM
Well, I suppose if your going to debunk the clone theory then the Sidious was a Jedi theory has to be debunked as well. Basically there would be no way Sidious could keep a schedule of a politician AND be a Jedi as well, as well as plotting to take over the galaxy. Too much for one man, even the Sith Lord himself. Two of the three yes, but not formerly being a Jedi.

So I'll bring up another old argument then...

Sidious and Palpatine are NOT the same person....ha ha, I wanna see the argumnet that spring from this one again...


Okay here's at least a theory as to why the Jedi cannot feel the presence of Sidious.

Just as Yoda used Dagobah and more specifically the darkside cave to mask his Light side presence, Sidious did the same. What I mean is that, as he grew stronger in the darkside, the only way to mask his darkside presence was to be around enough lightside presence that would in effect cancel it out. Only as things started to unfold were the Jedi finally able to even realize the darkside was around them. Once we see in EPIII the clones turning on the Jedi and slaughtering them, Sidious will not have the "protective bubble of Lightside energy that has been masking him, to hide behind and finally he will be revealed for his true self. This is why Mace confronts Palpatine/Sidious and consequently is destroyed (whether or not to keep the secret a little longer isn't even relevent at this point because Sidious has finally acheived his goal of becoming Emperor.

Okay what do you guys think of that....
-Sal

mabudonicus
02-20-2004, 12:05 PM
I agree, sifo-dyas is palpatine is sidious, no clones, no need.
Sal- one Sifo dyas "died" he had all the time he'd need, and with the fact that he has powerful mind tricks (and this is a little thin, sorry, I doubt even GL had this all worked out while making TPM either, though :D) and could use them on as many people as it took; we don't really know much of Palpy's political story from the films at least; maybe he just came from "nowhere"


And I am still sure that Mace is sith (how's THAT for a classic), and that Dooku is Anakin's father, totally positive on that still, so I still imagine that somehow Dooku's death will help drive Anakin over the edge, also helping steel his resolve to adopt the "vader" persona and eventually bring balance to the force....

I don't know, does this mean I agree???

JEDIpartner
02-23-2004, 10:33 AM
So... are "Emperor" Palpatine and "Senator/Chancellor" Palpatine not Darth Sidious?

Was just wondering because (yes, I know much has changed from the original book for ANH) the prologue in the novelisation of ANH calls the emperor "Palpatine."

spacelord
03-10-2004, 02:40 PM
I think Sidious was only Sifo-dyas on kamino. Obi wan said he believed Sifo-dyas died before the clone army was commisioned. After the real jedi master Sifo-dyas is killed, probably by sidious or maul, Sidious goes to kamino posing as the dead jedi and orders the army. If anyone is mind-tricked, its the kaminoans - into beliving sidious' story.

dArTh_HoMeR
05-26-2004, 08:28 PM
my speculation is as follows.

darth sidious used to be a jedi named sifa-dyas (or the earlier sido-dyas) in fact he was the head of the jedi council untill he presumably died about 10 years before AOTC. sifa-dyas was of course one of darth sidiouses many alter egos. this explains who deleted the kamino sysyet from the jedi archives. (yoda>"only a jedi could have ereased those" it also explains who crreated the army and why. darth sidious/senator palpatine-supreme chamsalor plapatine/sifa-dyas must have been a busy man.

i hope ep. 3 flashes back and shows what palps looked like when he was the head of the jedi order. i presume he looked super old like in ROTJ , after all he can make himself look younger than he really is (hence how the jedi didnt know that sifa-dyas and palps was the same dude).

comments???????????Okay first af all... don't you guy's know anything about Star Wars history? Here is "CORRECT" history about palpitine...

Imperius (The Sith leader at the time) found and apprenticed a boy named Dantius Palpatine. Imperius dubbed him Darth Sidious. Imperius had several kyber crystals and eventually gave one to Palpatine. The kyber crystals were formed by Rodar Wizards of Perdonis and scattered throughout the galaxy, about 100,00 years before the Phantom Menace. Unbeknownst to Imperius, Palpatine found a far more powerful kyber crystal than anything Imperius had. palpatine found it on a planet Moovis. this crystal made Palpatine too powerful for his master to control. On the planet Skaggis, Palpatine confronted Imperius, sliced off Imperius's arms, and sliced him in half from head to hip.than finished Imperius off with a force-tornado.

Okay, I had to tell you that part now is the actual part where i have the right answer... well that pert up there was too! it's prooving that Palpatine never was in the Jedi Order. okay, here's the rest...



After the death of Darth Maul, Palpatine immediately sought out three potential apprentices; Sifo Dyas, Detori (Darth Rage), a cyborg Toban from Yetis and Dakkus Vitrich’s Jedi student, Count Jard Dooku of Serreno (Darth Tyranus). Detori grew up as a youth on Sevara, just past Iridonia and was there found by Palpatine for training. Palpatine first approached Sifo Dyas. Palpatine had asked Sifo Dyas to become a Sith, since the Kaminoans were expecting his visit. Sifo Dyas refused and Palpatine slew him by a Force fireball and Force earthquake. Palpatine then approached Detori and Count Dooku, who each accepted the possibility of apprenticeship. The two were to duel for the position of apprentice. Before the duel could be set up, Plo Koon fought Darth Rage in a fierce light-saber duel, eventually destroying Darth Rage by a Force avalanche. Before dying, Darth Rage denied being a Sith and claimed to act alone. Count Dooku became Darth Tyranus, Palpatine’s apprentice, in less than a year after the events of The Phantom Menace. One of his first missions was to order a clone army as Sifo Dyas, who was on his way to Kamino. (Sifo Dyas was an Ogdarian born on the asteroid world of Esiken, and discovered by the Jedi when he moved to Allistare.) Count Dooku had Billigo Hilgobottomager (a Jedi master of disguise and possibly a changeling) pretend to be Sifo Dyas and order an army cloned from the bounty hunter, Jango Fett. Jango Fett had proven himself as the best bounty hunter throughout the Galaxy by always beating the formidable cyborg Montross to a mark.

Whatta ya think about dat?

Bel-Cam Jos
06-30-2013, 03:44 PM
Sad that we never ever found out the truth...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
07-01-2013, 11:44 AM
Sad that we never ever found out the truth...

What truth? We found out that Palpatine and Sidious were the same person - it's kind of funny to see the theories now when it seems so obvious in retrospect. Sidious was never a Jedi; he was trained to use the Force by Darth Plagueis. The Sifo-Dyas mystery is being addressed in some way in the upcoming The Clone Wars bonus content, so hopefully that will finally shine some (official) light on the subject.

Bel-Cam Jos
07-01-2013, 03:09 PM
I see you have been clouded by the dark side of the Force. Lies! All he spreads are lies, that Palpatine guy! :rolleyes:

I was part of the the camp that thought Sifo-Dyas would be clarified in ROTS, but I knew Sidious was Palpy all along.

sith_killer_99
07-01-2013, 06:16 PM
Thread Necromancy -

Oh, thread so dead.
Writhing in pain.
Arise arise, to post again.

:tyrannosaurus: