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Phantom-like Menace
02-14-2004, 07:04 AM
The cast and crew of Angel have been given notice by the WB that this will be the last season for this show. They say they've given Whedon enough notice to wrap the show up in a fitting manner.

To put it mildly, that kind of sucks. Sure, last season wasn't so hot, but it was still better fare than most stations can put out. I've been really fond of this season thus far, though. I'm really going to miss this show.

All I watch on television now is Stargate, which itself is slumping a tad on stories lately, though they don't have many stories left to introduce the Lost City, so Stargate Atlantis can launch..

That's pretty much the only thing I watch on Warner Brothers, so that's one more channel I can do without.

sith_killer_99
02-14-2004, 09:11 AM
My wife is a huge fan, as am I, to a somewhat lesser extent.

This really gets her, because her 2 favorite shows were Farscape and Angel! If they cancel Tru Calling she may stop watching TV all together. Well, except for the upcoming Farscape mini-series.

We were both fans of BTVS and were disappointed with the last season or two, but watched anyway. WB, probably figures the same will happen with Angel, what with Cordy dead and all.

Let's face it, it's never a good sign when they start killing main characters on a series, it means that they are desperate to hook viewers. Sure, it worked with Doyal, but that was what really developed Cordys' character. I mean, up until that point everyone was looking at her going "What the hell is she even doing on this show?".

I must admit, it's not fair that shows like Charmed stay on forever and ever, while Farscape and Angel get the boot after 4-5 seasons! Don't get me wrong, Charmed is a cute show, but it's not even in the same league as Farscape or Angel...IMO.

WB is making a mistake, they need to re-write the story arc, get 'em all out of Wolfram and Hart, and back to fighting evil. They should bring in a new character or two, or maybe an old one (Willow).

Otherwise, they should give Spike his own show and introduce a new slayer into the mix! That ought to be easy enough, considering there are hundreds...or thousands of new slayers. :rolleyes: Like I said...I'm not a big fan of the way they played it all out at the end of BTVS.

Anyway, yeah, this sucks...big time. :Pirate:

Silent Chazz
02-14-2004, 09:59 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Thats not true! Thats impossible!

Im a big BTVS fan and so I liked the Angel show. This happened to BTVS during their 5th season so MAYBE UPN will pick up the show.

Hellboy
02-14-2004, 04:25 PM
Man this sucks. :mad: :frus: What is happening in television today? :dis:

I only watch a handful of television shows and this is one of them. I find the overall quality of most shows to be pretty average at best and really appreciate shows like Angel because they're unique. I tend to like shows that have some sort of continuity and develop characters and storylines over long periods of time. The majority of shows on TV offer storylines that conclude in under an hour and have cardboard characters that do the same things each week. What we have is a medium that isn't taking advantage of having the ability to tell stories on a weekly basis with a few exceptions like 24 and Alias. Add to this the fact that most new shows are either reality based or a clone of another successful show and it becomes really difficult to find something unique and different on. I'm sure we'll continue seeing more reality television and redundant crime dramas along the lines of CSI: New York, LAPD Blue, or Law and Order: Animal Control Unit while quality shows such as Angel, Farscape, and Firefly get the axe. I sure hope another network picks it up. :cry:

Silent Chazz
02-14-2004, 07:45 PM
A little OT, but Angel Season 3 DVD set was SUPPOSED to come out last Tuesday but I haven't seen it anywhere in stores. Is this decision somehow hold off Season 3 DVD sets or something?

darthzirock
02-15-2004, 12:06 AM
My wife is a huge fan, as am I, to a somewhat lesser extent.

This really gets her, because her 2 favorite shows were Farscape and Angel! If they cancel Tru Calling she may stop watching TV all together. Well, except for the upcoming Farscape mini-series.

Bad news! TRU CALLING is truly dead after this season. Just like BIRDS OF PREY, it started strong and then nosedived.


We were both fans of BTVS and were disappointed with the last season or two, but watched anyway. WB, probably figures the same will happen with Angel, what with Cordy dead and all.

Let's face it, it's never a good sign when they start killing main characters on a series, it means that they are desperate to hook viewers. Sure, it worked with Doyal, but that was what really developed Cordy's character. I mean, up until that point everyone was looking at her going "What the hell is she even doing on this show?"

Actually, Whedon had it planned from Day One to only have Doyle around for like half a season. Sadly, it wasn't Whedon's decision to stick Cordy in limbo and then kill her off--after saying a few negative things regarding what she thought was The WB's lack of support for ANGEL, Charisma Carpenter's contract wasn't renewed by some pretty peeved network execs.


WB is making a mistake, they need to re-write the story arc, get 'em all out of Wolfram and Hart, and back to fighting evil. They should bring in a new character or two, or maybe an old one (Willow).

Otherwise, they should give Spike his own show and introduce a new slayer into the mix! That ought to be easy enough, considering there are hundreds...or thousands of new slayers. :rolleyes: Like I said...I'm not a big fan of the way they played it all out at the end of BTVS.

I think Whedon is looking forward to trying his hand at something NEW once ANGEL is wrapped. There will be BTVS and ANGEL comic books, novels, action figures, computer games, ad nauseum, to keep fans fixed. Fox might even green-light the long-awaited BTVS TV-cast feature film (hell, they finally tossed enough money at THE SIMPSONS gang to get them in gear on a movie!). But, yeah, the weekly tube fix is gonna be sorely missed!

Darth Kirk
02-15-2004, 12:55 AM
First Buffy and now THIS! What the heck.. bring back Buffy and V:The Final Battle II

sith_killer_99
02-15-2004, 11:05 AM
A little OT, but Angel Season 3 DVD set was SUPPOSED to come out last Tuesday but I haven't seen it anywhere in stores. Is this decision somehow hold off Season 3 DVD sets or something?

Nope, it's out, I picked up a copy on Tuesday, though I had to hit 3 stores to find it, they sold out pretty fast! And yet WB decided to cancel. :rolleyes:


Bad news! TRU CALLING is truly dead after this season.

Oh man, my wife's gonna be mad!


Sadly, it wasn't Whedon's decision to stick Cordy in limbo and then kill her off--after saying a few negative things regarding what she thought was The WB's lack of support for ANGEL, Charisma Carpenter's contract wasn't renewed by some pretty peeved network execs.

Oh, I just assumed it was because of the her baby. My wife is really the one that follows all the "behind-the-scenes stuff". She spends more time on the BTVS and Angel sites, than I spend here. Heck, she even started her own website with links to her (and her frinds') LiveJournals and the whole nine.

Anyway, with all the shows getting axed, it looks like I will be spending more time getting into cable original programing like The Shield (March 9th YEAH!!!), The New Battlestar Gallactica (Hopefully it will run a full 5 seasons or more), Nip/Tuck (if it gets picked up for a new season), and when will The Sopranos be back?

With stuff like this, it's no wonder the big networks are getting their butts kicked.

Devo
02-17-2004, 02:15 PM
They all seem to have a problem with critically and fan acclaimed shows especially if Joss whedon is behind them. If there isn't 'enough' fans then the show is doomed no matter how good it is. Typical. Angel wasn't finished, there had to have been plans beyond season 5 and the WB have criminally botched that up. Now this final season will have a tacked-on, out-of-the-blue ending. Wankers.

sith_killer_99
02-17-2004, 09:11 PM
Joss Whedon has now said that he would be interested in continuing Angel, if another network were to pick it up.

Come on UPN!

THE Slayer
02-17-2004, 10:46 PM
Ok. I only have a few things to say about this.

Being the BTVS fan I am. I'm not actually surprised. I haven't watched nearly enough eps of this season to be informed on whats actually going on. I never really LOved angel the way I love Buffy. .....this sounds so stupid.... anyways Cordy's farewell ep was one of the best hours of television I've seen in a long time. I really do not watch a lot of shows as it is. My favs are Alias, Six Feet Under(which isnt even on now), sex and the city,, although i don't know why, but there's not much else I 'absolutely must watch.' Cordy's leaving the show really felt like the end to me. And all this wolf ram and heart stuff is just asinine. As an aside I really loved Andrews cameo a couple weeks ago.

Sith Killer... Whats your wife's fan site?

Hellboy
02-17-2004, 11:28 PM
Anyway, with all the shows getting axed, it looks like I will be spending more time getting into cable original programing like The Shield (March 9th YEAH!!!), The New Battlestar Gallactica (Hopefully it will run a full 5 seasons or more), Nip/Tuck (if it gets picked up for a new season), and when will The Sopranos be back?

With stuff like this, it's no wonder the big networks are getting their butts kicked.

The Sopranos 5th season starts March 7th and Nip/Tuck starts its 2nd season on June 22. :D

angellus
02-18-2004, 03:45 PM
This sucks! The show was brought in a really interesting direction this year and they're cancelling it? I can only hope Joss Whedon will be given the opportunity for some other Buffy-related show. Maybe about a different Slayer or something. Or perhaps the Buffy characters can make the jump to the big screen like the cast from the Star Trek shows.

The WB sucks! They cancel Angel, and yet they continue to run Smallville, which ruins the Superman myth every week by having Clark Kent meet every damn person in the DC Universe--from Perry White to Lois Lane--before he's developed pubic hair.

THE Slayer
02-19-2004, 09:51 PM
The WB sucks! They cancel Angel, and yet they continue to run Smallville, which ruins the Superman myth every week by having Clark Kent meet every damn person in the DC Universe--from Perry White to Lois Lane--before he's developed pubic hair.


I'm pretty sure Tom Welling is um... developed....

darthzirock
02-20-2004, 11:08 AM
This happened to BTVS during their 5th season so MAYBE UPN will pick up the show.

Um, Chazz, The WB didn't cancel BTVS. The contract between 20th Century Fox Televsion and The WB expired, meaning that The WB had to renegotiate, but that Fox was also free to field offers from other networks. UPN offered Fox the better deal, and they took it. The WB contract with Fox for Angel was a bit tighter, with no such expiration clause. Although ratings for the show have improved this season, The WB basically just isn't interested in continuing the show--they have their upcoming Dark Shadows revamp to keep bloodsucker fans happy! But, just because The WB canceled it doesn't mean that UPN or TNT (where reruns of Angel are doing extremely well) couldn't pick up the series.

sith_killer_99
02-20-2004, 11:27 AM
I kinda like Smallville, except I think Lana is the only person left who dosen't know about Clark. :rolleyes:

sith_killer_99
02-21-2004, 03:01 PM
Sith Killer... Whats your wife's fan site?

It's called "Musings Across a Pond".

Her online identity is Lilbreck. She visits a lot of fan sites. If you want to check out her site, here is the address:

http://s93597413.onlinehome.us/

darthzirock
02-24-2004, 03:02 PM
OMG, they're gonna kill off Fred! She's going to get possessed by a demon she accidentally unleashes on tomorrow night's show, and the storyline continues at least until next week (3/3). But, from what's been posted at various sites, Fred is gonna be buying the farm at the end of this demon-possession storyline!

This stinks! First, they toss Charisma Carpenter off the series because she expressed her opinions about the shoddy way The WB was treating the series after they allowed BTVS to slip through their clumsy hands. Then, they finally bring Charisma back in a guest-starring role to resolve the Cordilia-in-a-coma situation, and they kill her off at the end! Now, they're going to take the only female main-cast member left and snuff her, too? GAAAAAH! :frus:

angellus
02-24-2004, 03:16 PM
I heard about this and I think it sucks. I have a sinking feeling that Angel will not get the send-off it deserves. The WB executives should all be turned into puppets!

angellus
02-24-2004, 03:21 PM
I kinda like Smallville, except I think Lana is the only person left who dosen't know about Clark. :rolleyes:

I like Smallville too, but they take too many liberties with the story. Like that episode where Clark gets struck by lightning while holding Kryptonite and his powers got transferred to the kid he was trying to save. LAME! The last time I checked his powers come from the sun. How the hell do lightning and Kryptonite combine to make them go away? You can't change something that's essential to the lexicon, like the root of his powers. And I can't stand that he runs into all these people that are supposed to be in his life as an adult. They keep saying Lois will be on the show, as well as Bruce Wayne and Wonder Woman. Has the DC Universe gotten so small that it now consists of 16 people?

Phantom-like Menace
02-26-2004, 08:47 PM
I'm kind of curious why there is this misogynistic trend taking the form of killing of all the ladies myself.

Further, I would really miss Fred. Amy Acker in my mind has the title of Most Adorable Woman in the Universe, but I would still watch Angel in that worst of worst case scenarios in which that oh so cute woman were no longer in the series.

I have a bad feeling that without Angel, we would be without any series in the Slayerverse. No Buffy, No Angel, no Faith. I could only hope in lieu of one of these series, Joss is able to resurrect Firefly, so he's doing something (that makes me happy at least) with his time otherwise.

sith_killer_99
02-27-2004, 05:47 AM
Amy Acker in my mind has the title of Most Adorable Woman in the Universe,

She certainly comes close! Definatly the hottest female on TV right now, IMHO.


have a bad feeling that without Angel, we would be without any series in the Slayerverse. No Buffy, No Angel, no Faith.

It's funny that you said that. The other night while Angel and Spike were talking about Wolfram and Hart having offices all over, I told my wife "It would be great if they gave Spike his own series set in New York, maybe bring in Willow and Oz."

Who knows?

As for Fred's future?!?! I don't think WB will really kill off the character, and if they do??? Well, we can always hope UPN picks it up and brings the character back full time. It's not like death means a whole lot in the slayerverse. Let's see, just off the top of my head:

Buffy: Died twice
Angel: Vamped, souled, de-souled, killed and spent time in a hell dimension, re-souled, de-souled, re-souled.
Spike: Vamped, souled, died saving the world at the end of BTVS, re-appeared at Wolfram and Hart, finally re-materialized (was rumored to only be around for 3 or so episodes) is now a full timer.
Darla: Vamper, slayed, brought back, terminal illness, re-vamper, had a baby and slayed herself!
Lorn: Didn't actuall die, but he was decapitated and survived.

Umm, OK I'm out of time...

Phantom-like Menace
02-27-2004, 12:03 PM
She certainly comes close! Definatly the hottest female on TV right now, IMHO.For me hot and cute aren't on the same scale. A woman can be a ten on a 1-10 scale of hot, and be easily beaten out by a woman who is a ten on a similar scale for cute. I'm sure most other people have a continuum where it starts with fugly (and I think we all know what fugly means), goes up to hot and has cute somewhere in the middle. It just doesn't work for me. But I'm glad you agree.


It's funny that you said that. The other night while Angel and Spike were talking about Wolfram and Hart having offices all over, I told my wife "It would be great if they gave Spike his own series set in New York, maybe bring in Willow and Oz."

Who knows?Here's hoping something will happen. Spike really has begun to shine in the last couple of years. I'm really impressed that he would go so far to try to earn Buffy's love. I personally like him and Buffy together more than Angel and Buffy. Though I wasn't overly fond of Season Six's take on making sex equal love, it kind of cheapened one of the two best relationships on the show (the other being Willow and Tara).


As for Fred's future?!?! I don't think WB will really kill off the character, and if they do??? Well, we can always hope UPN picks it up and brings the character back full time. It's not like death means a whole lot in the slayerverse. Let's see, just off the top of my head:

Buffy: Died twice
Angel: Vamped, souled, de-souled, killed and spent time in a hell dimension, re-souled, de-souled, re-souled.
Spike: Vamped, souled, died saving the world at the end of BTVS, re-appeared at Wolfram and Hart, finally re-materialized (was rumored to only be around for 3 or so episodes) is now a full timer.
Darla: Vamper, slayed, brought back, terminal illness, re-vamper, had a baby and slayed herself!
Lorn: Didn't actuall die, but he was decapitated and survived.All true. My fear though, would be if it were Amy's decision to kill off the character, because she was ready to move on or some such thing. That would make little more than the slightest possibility of her returning for anything more than a cameo episode.

I really hope Angel stays on, and I hope Fred stays. Much as I was impressed by what Spike would do for Buffy, I was insanely impressed when Wesley shot his "father" in less than an eyeblink after the man touched Fred. It was half way through his putting nine into the man he thought was his father that I decided he had earned the chance to make Fred happy.

That episode I just mentioned, by the way, was possibly the best Angel episode ever in my opinion, and it's coming this season tells me there is still more to be done with this series.

THE Slayer
02-27-2004, 02:44 PM
So is this in reference to what happened this week?
I missed the ep after the submarine one, and I don't know if the last two weeks were connected. BUt my favorite scene, without spoiling, involved Lorne, Fred and Wesley.

darthzirock
02-29-2004, 01:09 PM
There's only been one episode after the submarine one, "A Hole in the World," where Fred gets infected by what everyone assumes is a disease, but she's actually being possessed by a demon, Illyria. At the end of the episode, Fred dies, but Illyria, a powerful demon that actually is far older than humanity, is in full control of Fred's body. This week's episode, "Shells," deals with the loss of Fred and the Angel gang trying to destroy Illyria. Here's the plot synopsis released by The WB: "Angel (David Boreanaz) and Spike (James Marsters) return from England defeated, knowing that the ancient demon Illyria has completely taken over Fred's (Amy Acker) body and soul. Upon learning that Knox (guest star Jonathan Woodward) and Gunn (J. August Richards) have each contributed to her demise, Wesley (Alexis Denisof) goes for revenge and Angel tries everything to restore Fred, including calling on an old friend from Sunnydale. Meanwhile, Illyria tries to locate an ancient temple where she believes she will find an army ready to help her destroy mankind."

THE Slayer
02-29-2004, 01:22 PM
Good, so I didn't miss anything. My favorite scene was when Lorne read fred and she fell down the stairs spewing blood. So who is this 'friend from Sunnydale, willow??

Hellboy
02-29-2004, 02:56 PM
There's only been one episode after the submarine one, "A Hole in the World," where Fred gets infected by what everyone assumes is a disease, but she's actually being possessed by a demon, Illyria.

Actually darthzirock there was an episode between those two titled "Smile Time" where Angel has to stop a children's show from stealing the lives of its viewers. :)

Phantom-like Menace
03-12-2004, 07:07 PM
E Online recently had a poll for several shows that had either been cancelled or were close to being cancelled. Everyone cast his or her vote for which one should be saved, and the idea was that the winning show would get extra help from E Online I.e. Kristin, the gossip columnist would write to important people at the network telling of the results. I don't remember all the shows, but among them was Enterprise, Tru Calling, and Angel. I'm not sure how much this is going to help the cause, but Angel won, and not only did it win, out of 400,000 votes, it got 85% of the vote.

sith_killer_99
03-12-2004, 10:25 PM
Well, it seems UPN has passed on Angel.

However, the current rumor is that WB is reconsidering keeping Angel for another season.

:Pirate:

Card Dreamer
03-27-2004, 12:40 AM
Okay, don't get me wrong, I like BTVS and Angel...however...they turned Angel into a muppet...a MUPPET! Sorry, but if you have to resort to turning your main into a muppet just to attract more viewers...its time to move on...

Again, I love both series, but more than once I saw them start what could have been GREAT storylines and totally trash them (the worst was the Buffy meets Count Dracula. Could have been a GREAT dark ongoing story, and they turned into a joke fest. Muppets to me have the same affect.)

Phantom-like Menace
03-27-2004, 08:50 PM
Mentioning a stand alone episode of Angel as being reason to cancel Angel is like saying the Star Wars Christmas Special was reason to cancel Star Wars. The stand alone episodes have almost nothing to do with the series. They're just there. Most series have twenty-four stories per season (or so), but Angel and Buffy tend toward having one story. If any other show has one bad story, people just wonder what's on next week. If Angel has one bad story (which unfortunately equals an entire season), everyone wonders when it will be cancelled. A stand alone Angel episode is analagous to a couple of minutes of standard dramatic fare; it's a break from the story where a small little scene would happen in another show. I can't make the case that a show needs to be cancelled because of a couple of minutes.

Just really quickly though: You said, "Sorry, but if you have to resort to turning your main [character?] into a muppet just to attract more viewers." I would wonder how this could be construed as a ratings grab. Do muppets tend to pull major ratings among target demographics?

As for the Dracula episode of Buffy. I can totally see why that was largely played for laughs. When I first heard Buffy was going to meet Dracula, I started laughing almost immediately. With Dracula's being a completely fictional product of Bram Stoker's misunderstanding of various Romanian historical figures and generally confused portrayal of vampire mythos, it would be like writing a movie about astronauts going to Mars and meeting Star Trek's Mr. Spock! Try to be serious and fail; play it for laughs and it's great.

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome that you like the series, and I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on the positives of both series, but to me the muppet episode was a non-event. It was a poke at Barney and how long our little sister/brother/cousin/neighbor sits transfixed in front of the screen watching what we all know has to be some nefarious byproduct of Satan wrapped in fluffy packaging. From what I understand anyway, David Boreanaz was unable to film (because he hurt himself if I recall) so they threw together an episode that didn't require him to be on set as much.

Card Dreamer
03-27-2004, 09:06 PM
Just really quickly though: You said, "Sorry, but if you have to resort to turning your main [character?] into a muppet just to attract more viewers." I would wonder how this could be construed as a ratings grab. Do muppets tend to pull major ratings among target demographics?Actually, I guess I'm saying muppets tend to be quite the opposite for me. Because of the preview for that ep, showing he was turned into a muppet made me NOT watch the show.... No, I don't think this one ep ALONE means a show should be cancled, I am just stating that, imo, it reflects that they are running low on ideas. Okay, Dave hurt himself and I can understand not being available to flim, but couldn't htey have easily focused the ep on aother character? make it where dave just wasn't needed at all? If I recall correctly (and with my luck I don't :p ) they did that a couple times with Buffy.


As for the Dracula episode of Buffy. I can totally see why that was largely played for laughs. When I first heard Buffy was going to meet Dracula, I started laughing almost immediately. With Dracula's being a completely fictional product of Bram Stoker's misunderstanding of various Romanian historical figures and generally confused portrayal of vampire mythos, it would be like writing a movie about astronauts going to Mars and meeting Star Trek's Mr. Spock! Try to be serious and fail; play it for laughs and it's great.
This is where we have major differences I supose. To know the origins of Dracula's creation, as cool as that bit of knowledge might be for trivia (not trying to be sarcastic, though I think that comment might come across that way when reading this), I think the way you stated it is overinsight as far as the character himself is concerened. I don't see why playing it as serious would be a failure. Was Interview With A Vampire a failure when they portrayed vampires as real? And buffy wasn't funny when they introduced other variants of the vampire..Introducing the original, and arguably the most powerful or at very least mystical and supernatural of them all had a LOT of potential for a decent sized story arc. Humor gets you one somewhat forgettable ep with a few laughs. A GOOD serious storyarc can attract viewers for weeks! ;)

Phantom-like Menace
03-27-2004, 09:33 PM
First, I want to say I'm glad you didn't read any undo anger into my post, and no, any sarcasm you inject into this topic is much appreciated. I love sarcasm!


Actually, I guess I'm saying muppets tend to be quite the opposite for me. Because of the preview for that ep, showing he was turned into a muppet made me NOT watch the show.... No, I don't think this one ep ALONE means a show should be cancled, I am just stating that, imo, it reflects that they are running low on ideas. Okay, Dave hurt himself and I can understand not being available to flim, but couldn't htey have easily focused the ep on aother character? make it where dave just wasn't needed at all? If I recall correctly (and with my luck I don't :p ) they did that a couple times with Buffy.
You didn't watch it? You know I could give you heck for that:D . You almost touched on one point I make about this episode: You and I can make a list right now of other ways they could have handled an episode without Boreanaz (I could suggest an episode based solely around Fred). The writers tried something different, figuring maybe it could be funny, maybe it might not be, but it's different. Based on that, a lot of people have broken out the kindling and kerosene. If the episode had had Angel go to New York on business while Gunn and Wesley look into a rash of child abductions, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Different doesn't always win points, but it's different.

This is where we have major differences I supose. To know the origins of Dracula's creation, as cool as that bit of knowledge might be for trivia (not trying to be sarcastic, though I think that comment might come across that way when reading this), I think the way you stated it is overinsight as far as the character himself is concerened. I don't see why playing it as serious would be a failure. Was Interview With A Vampire a failure when they portrayed vampires as real? And buffy wasn't funny when they introduced other variants of the vampire..Introducing the original, and arguably the most powerful or at very least mystical and supernatural of them all had a LOT of potential for a decent sized story arc. Humor gets you one somewhat forgettable ep with a few laughs. A GOOD serious storyarc can attract viewers for weeks! ;)[/QUOTE]
Well, portraying vampires and portraying Dracula are two different things. I'd add more, but I have to get to work. Maybe later.

Thanks.

Card Dreamer
03-27-2004, 09:37 PM
No, there's certainly nothing wrong with different, and since they didn't open something possible for a better story and then skip it for the muppet, then that's fine.

But that's what urked me most about Dracula... I REALLY hate wasted potential for a GOOD story. To know it was there and yet SETTLE for what they did, uhg, makes me sick.

Phantom-like Menace
03-29-2004, 07:02 PM
Sorry I goofed up the quote above. My ride decided to leave early, so I had to skip out quickly.


No, there's certainly nothing wrong with different, and since they didn't open something possible for a better story and then skip it for the muppet, then that's fine.

But that's what urked me most about Dracula... I REALLY hate wasted potential for a GOOD story. To know it was there and yet SETTLE for what they did, uhg, makes me sick.
I always figured it could have been nice if they gave us both sides. There was obvious room for another episode with Dracula. With Buffy's potential for drama, action, comedy, and all the other flavors of storytelling, Drac could have shown, and all the jokes having been made already, could have been quite the dramatic presence. I know at one time there was talk of having the character return, but I guess they had other things to do. I can see Joss deciding it was time for a dramatic turn. Look at Spike: years of being evil and not always so funny, now he's good and hysterical.

Card Dreamer
03-29-2004, 08:55 PM
Granted, I think Spike is perhaps THE best character development in the show, PERIOD.

smurfvader
03-30-2004, 03:57 PM
Personaly I loved the puppet episode of Angel. The best scene is when the gang is leaving and there all walking looking bad@$$ and the one leading them is a pupet. If the series had been anywhere near as good as this season has been it wouldn't have gotten canceled. The problem was as much as I liked the first 3 seasons of Buffy, Angel just never did it for me. I watched, but not with the same enjoyment I did with Buffy. The show always seemed to me to be lacking something. Then they had to do that whole Conner thing (which really sucked), I almost stopped wtching it after that.
In other related news they wanted Buffy to be on the series finale, but apparently she is unable to do it, but Dawn will be making a guest apperance sometime soon.

jiM

Phantom-like Menace
03-30-2004, 09:42 PM
When I desrive the muppet episode, I tend to describe it in the worst possible light to make a point, that point being the episode could have twelve times less entertaining than it was, and it is still nothing to bring up. I didn't think the muppet episode was the best episode, but that's reason to bash every episode but the best, which isn't a very logical way to look at this sort of thing. I laughed a couple of times during the muppet episode, and I thought it was more or less fine. A lot of people thought it was really funny. I remember fondly Gunn's standing there after the fight with the arms of a little puppet girl in his hands at the end of the fight.

Smurfvader, you're right about this season being great. It's been a little rough for those of us who really like Fred (so many people like her now, but am I the only person who liked her since that crazy girl hid in her room craving Taco Bell?), but the episodes have been quite engaging. Sadly, this has only added to the bitter resentment most of us feel about its possible cancellation.Yeah, even Joss Whedon has had to admit fans hated the Connor and Cordelia thing. He spoke of lynch mobs.

To be honest, I only started really liking Angel slowly after the last couple of seasons as it slowly changed to what it is now, though I've watched it since the beginning. When Buffy came out, I didn't have the WB, so I couldn't watch it. After I got the WB, I still didn't watch it, but when Angel came out I decided I would have to check out that universe. I've not been sorry since.

THE Slayer
04-09-2004, 01:55 PM
What happened in the Finale??

Hellboy
04-09-2004, 02:54 PM
The season isn't over yet. New episodes start up again next week. :)

Phantom-like Menace
04-09-2004, 05:05 PM
My current signature inlcudes the air date for the next new episode: April 14.

THE Slayer
04-18-2004, 10:32 PM
I watched this weeks ep. And do you guys think this series can possibly end on an up note?? I'm starting to have doubts. ANd i though some of the dialouge this time was... how do you say CRAP!?!?!

sith_killer_99
04-18-2004, 11:05 PM
And do you guys think this series can possibly end on an up note?? I'm starting to have doubts. ANd i though some of the dialouge this time was... how do you say CRAP!?!?!

Hmm, the same thing happened with BTVS, the writers just don't care once a series is gonna be cancelled anyway. :rolleyes: The final season of Buffy was pretty bad. I'm glad Angel hasn't sunk that low...yet. :cry:

THE Slayer
04-19-2004, 11:23 AM
I agree. The last season of buffy was not the best, But I think it could have been a lot better given more time. There were far too many characters and archs were 'wrapped' up too quickly. I hate seeing it happen all over again.
I disagree about the writers not caring. If it was the end you think they would want to go out with a bang. I think the dialouge is a byproduct of having to wrap everything up so quickly... Why start conversations and topics you will never have a chance to revisit?!?

sith_killer_99
04-19-2004, 11:58 AM
Why start conversations and topics you will never have a chance to revisit?!?

But see, that's exactly why I say the writers don't care. They don't want to start anything new because they just want to wrap it up.

Life dosen't work that way. So what if you introduce a new subject or character that can't be developed later on, that's no reason to stop the natural progression of things. Leave it open.

sith_killer_99
04-21-2004, 08:57 PM
OK, tonights episode totally rocked! :D

THE Slayer
04-22-2004, 10:47 PM
OK, tonights episode totally rocked! :D

Much better than last weeks.

I liked the return of ***spoiler****....

Do any of you actually care if we post spoilers here? Theres like six of us!

sith_killer_99
04-22-2004, 10:56 PM
Hehehe, post away!

I liked the way Connor said "I learned that from my Father." at the end. You gotta know he was talking about Angel.

Also, what was the deal with Gunn? My wife says he's hiding out so that he dosen't have to atone for his "sin".

LOL Alyeria(sp?) wants to keep Spike as a pet! LOL

Hehehe, I wouldn't mind! LOL ;)

THE Slayer
04-22-2004, 11:14 PM
Well ok then.
I actualy liked Alyeria in this ep, dont know why.
Well I assumed he was talking about Angel Because he said " My DAD gets out today." when three minutes later as hes walking away he says "I learned that from my FATHER."
And i seem to liking Gunn less and less as things wind down. And I was never a big fan of Wes but he's a good character for a couple reasons.. However crazy he may be.

Spike as a pet.. lol. Yep. I'd buy one, maybe TWO.

Phantom-like Menace
04-23-2004, 01:02 AM
I'm fairly certain Hamilton's offer was going to allow Gunn a nice life somewhere as a Wolfram and Hart flunky. It was Gunn's wanting to atone for his mistakes that drove him to not even want to hear it. "Come on Sparky, this heart's not going to cut itself out." This guy isn't hiding from anything. He's accepted the fact that for the time being, this is his punishment. Of course, I liked Gunn in this episode, mostly because he's realized great mistakes come with great consequences, and he'll face them as a true penitent.

I loved when Connor said he kind of has a thing for older women, and Angel complains that they were supposed to fix that. Wow, for the first time, Connor is not a total punk. He was actually really cool.

Spike and Ilyria were enormously funny. I really liked when Spike shoves the doors open to go after Ilyria after she throws him out, Angel and Connor enter the room, and she already has him on the floor, stepping on his head. The line about keeping Spike as a pet was funny, and I think I'm happy that Angel didn't even acknowledge the line with a comment. Funny, you would not hear too many complaints about being her pet from me either, aside from the fact she's not Fred.

Four more. Four more, and then we have to wait until they start putting out these TV movies they're talking about. I guess we have to wait until at least the fall.

Phantom-like Menace
04-30-2004, 02:44 PM
With this latest episode, Spike continues to prove to be one of the funnier elements of this latest season. His lines consistently crack me up. Angel as a series was missing a true smartass, and I'm glad they've got one. I thought Wesley was pretty cool in this one as well. I liked the strange, roundabout lines he had in his office when Gunn came in to experience his full-strength crazy.

This is also the first episode in which I really found Ilyria interesting, though not so much I wouldn't mind getting Fred back ASAP. I like how she is having to adapt to the fact that she is no longer such a great and powerful being. How's that for a wake up? A prophecy is fulfilled bringing you back to rule after eons and one of the only people who was willing to worship you was that Knox *******.

Three more episodes left. Damned WB.

Edit: Cool, apparently I can't say that.

sith_killer_99
04-30-2004, 05:26 PM
LOL Alyeria(sp?) wants to keep Spike as a pet! LOL

Hehehe, I wouldn't mind! LOL

I meant that I wouldn't mind being her pet. LOL ;)

THE Slayer
05-01-2004, 04:34 PM
I meant that I wouldn't mind being her pet. LOL ;)

Riiight.

Anyways. This weeks ep was a much deserved improvement. Yeah Team!!

Whedons always done a decent job with the whole shifty time stuff, while most everyone else fails.

Phantom-like Menace
05-06-2004, 10:15 AM
I'm not sure what I thought about this most recent episode. First off, parts of it were really funny. Angel's going on about the Immortal's eating cookie dough had me in tears laughing, and Spike's confused reaction was priceless. Andrew's presence wasn't as great as last time, but he has learned to make an exit. It was also a shame not to see more of Darla and Drusilla, though Darla had some amusing lines. The Italian offices of Wolfram and Hart . . . is a nice place to visit. . . . Unfortunately I didn't really feel the exchanges between Angel and Spike. Something was missing.

I never really felt it was weird to hear Fred's speech coming from Ilyria, but hearing Ilyria's speech coming from Fred was unnerving. Watching and hearing Amy go back and forth between the two personas probably added to that. Of course, it was great to see even just a really good Fred impression coming from Ilyria. I definitely could imagine that upsetting Wesley. Poor guy.

Overall, good stuff though.

Two more episodes. That sucks pretty completely.

THE Slayer
05-08-2004, 03:09 PM
Ilyeria as fred was interesting...

Thats all I have really.... I wish this ep had more to say, and less of that france business, or wherever they were, i forget...

Oh and Andrew wearing a strong bad shirt was hilarious!!!

sith_killer_99
05-08-2004, 05:47 PM
Was I the only one annoyed by the whole scene where Andrew was talking to Angel and Spike through a wall. How rude. Yes, I know, the scene required it, but it still felt akward.

I hate the Wolfram and Hart in France.

Andrews exit was good.

Other than that it seemed like a waste of an episode, I mean these are the last few episodes, why waste even one? :(

The Ilyeria storyline was good.

THE Slayer
05-08-2004, 07:22 PM
Yeah. It felt wasted.

Ok. I was slightly annoyed by Andrew's exit seeing as in no way shape or form is he a ladies-man, or a mans-man in fact. He may not be the gayest of buffites but He clearly has tendencies... He crushed on Xander for about a year!!!

Have you guys seen the full page ad in EW for the Angel Finale... I'm sure its in other magazines as well.
It says something along the lines of "His last hour will be his finest." I'm not sure, its in a different wing of the house and I have no urge to go on a quest to find it.

Phantom-like Menace
05-11-2004, 08:02 PM
Have you guys seen the full page ad in EW for the Angel Finale... I'm sure its in other magazines as well.
It says something along the lines of "His last hour will be his finest." I'm not sure, its in a different wing of the house and I have no urge to go on a quest to find it.
I work at Sam Goody during the day, so I'm one of that magazine's faithful pimps. I feel down every time I catch that ad. I can't remember what it says, though. It's good to see exposure for the show, even if right here at the end.

Hellboy
05-11-2004, 08:25 PM
Talk about exposure, I guess now we know what Charisma Carpenter has been up to since her departure from the show. "The Angel star sheds her wings...and her clothes" appearing in this month's Playboy. :sur: :kiss: :crazed:

THE Slayer
05-11-2004, 09:06 PM
I thought that playboy thing was awhile ago??

WB did the same type of thing when buffy ended.. Then UPN did those red ads with buffy's eyes "Buffy Lives!" those were cool... I'm such a geek.. :smile:

Hellboy
05-11-2004, 09:23 PM
I thought that playboy thing was awhile ago??

June 2004 issue. I'd post pics but....uhm....well...you know. ;)

THE Slayer
05-11-2004, 09:33 PM
June 2004 issue. I'd post pics but....uhm....well...you know. ;)

What! Why can't you post pics!!!! ;) ;) ;)

:Iloveitwhenimakemyselflaugh:

sith_killer_99
05-19-2004, 09:01 PM
Angel is dead....

Long live ANGEL!

Oh well, the ending of an era! :cry:

Perfect ending! IMO

JEDIpartner
05-19-2004, 09:49 PM
I thought it was both good and bad. I got a little teary when Wes bit it and Illyria became Fred for him. I kinda called it a week or so back when they were selling the "one of them won't make it" thing. The cliff-hanger ending leaves the story wide open for continuation in the reported Buffy/Angel teleflicks and just the "not in a pretty little bow" sort of thing.

Bravo... and thank God for the DVDs!!!!

Phantom-like Menace
05-20-2004, 03:26 PM
"Personally, I wanna' slay the dragon." What a way to end the series! What a perfect line for a hero.

This was one of those episodes in which nothing was done incorrectly in my opinion, fitting given its being the last episode of a series I am going to miss terribly. Just as JEDIpartnr mentioned above, I figured Wesley's days were numbered, and Illyria's reaction to the whole thing nicely said goodbye to those two characters. Gunn was cool for his part, took out those vamps nice and hard. They liked Spike's poem! Too terrific. He's waited more than one hundred years for that. And I didn't remotely see it coming when Lorne shot Lindsay, but I really liked watching Lindsay's anger that it was supposed to be Angel, not a "flunkie." The new Connor proved again to be a welcome guest, and even Harmony's exit was memorable.

My roommate told me I would get angry when the WB thanked the fans at the end (unfortunately my two jobs meant I had to record it and watch it this morning), and I figured I wouldn't mind it too much. He was right. I didn't hear more than two notes of that insincere sounding song and I was turning off the VCR in anger.

I was reading on-line though, and there was the standard talk of some form of sequel series, and I saw an idea I (surprisingly) never thought of. By day she's mild-mannered hottie physicist Winnifred Burkle, but by night, she assumes her true form of Illyria: Rogue Demon Hunter. Well, the person just mentioned it would be cool to have an Illyria series, and I did the rest. But I can see Joss Whedon totally doing the super hero thing far more than ever done on Buffy, plus in a nod to Superman, she'll always wear the glasses when she is Fred. It would very much be a win for me.

Anyway, this is about Angel, and I can't say enough that this was too early. Screw the WB. Screw Fox. Screw the basic environment of television today. And as a wise man said just two posts ago: Long live ANGEL!

THE Slayer
05-20-2004, 11:15 PM
I got to watch it tonight. Overall I liked it, but I think Buffy had more 'closure'. I can difinetly see how this could lead into a movie.

Now I know its a little cliche but... WolfRAM & Hart Unleashed an Apocolypse, and there were only four people there to find them, one having only '10 minutes left'. I wish the camera would have panned upover the rooftop to show Super witch Willow ready to unleash some hell of her own, along with Faith (since Buffy is never coming back) Maybe Xander, and some of the slayettes all poised for battle.. Yes I know, thats not Angel. But it would have satisfied something deep inside me. And Maybe, just maybe Willow can give Illyria back some more of her smack. "I wish for more violence."

Hellboy
05-23-2004, 01:07 PM
Well I just got around to watching the series finale. Man was this good, I want more. :cry: A fitting ending I suppose, Wesley's death was well done and I'll admit I got choked up a bit too. Lindsay's death was a complete surprise and I loved how Spike got all amped up for his poetry reading. Great stuff!

This show will be missed!

Hellboy
05-25-2004, 05:05 PM
For those who missed it, or those who simply wish to see it again, the WB is re-airing "Not Fade Away" (the season/series finale) again tonight at 8pm pst. :cool:

Long live ANGEL! ;)

cubicleslave
05-25-2004, 05:36 PM
Great... there goes another great show! At least Buffy had a good run. What the heck am I supposed to watch now???