View Full Version : Is George Lucas jealous of Peter Jackson.
02-17-2004, 07:32 AM
I know that SW and LOTR are apples and oranges. But the demand for quality is not. I believe that if PJ would have made the SW saga prequels, sequels etc. it would have had the same quality as LOTR and if GL made LOTR it would have been made poorly. I am wondering if GL is green with envy at PJ's masterpiece and wishes he was in his shoes in a bad way that he mutters obsenities under his breath at the mention of LOTR.:D
02-17-2004, 08:52 AM
I don't see how he wouldn't be green-ish, at the very least.
I really hope that this fact propels GL into pulling out all the stops on this last one....
Main thing to consider in this is the fact that PJ had a farily solid storyline to work with, and GL is just shooting in the dark.... so many EU fans and stuff that GL is probably fairly unsure as to what constitutes "fact" in the prequels, where as PJ could use the book as the main guide, stealing bits frpm other interpretations as he saw fit..
GL is just trying to make big money films, and trying to deliver the same; it is pretty clear that his "grand vision" is, if not a ludicrous exaggeration, maybe just a figment of his egotistical imagination, and that is hurting him... his own insistance to be in control of aspects of the production with which he has no skill has hurt him, too... I mean, if he'd just let real writers and directors do the nuts-and-bolts stuff and just stay on to guarantee "flavour" it'd probably be a lot better...
I won't get into it here (or anywhere else) but this weird formulaic pandering is just crap, IMO it made ROTK the weakest of the 3 LOTR films, made TPM suck outright..
That was probably the strongest intangible in AOTC that made it work for some; the stupid "hey look" kinda showcase-for-my-genius style of filmmaking was obviously muted, at least enough to make the movie more palatable than the stink-festival that was TPM (I got it for x-mas and watched it again and domehow it's gotten worse with age)
So, in a way what I'm trying to say is, GL should be jealous, in a way, but not to worry, from the downhill slide of the LOTR movies, integrity-wise, PJ will perhaps suffer the same fate, once one starts lying about their "vision" it's a slippery slope.
If GL wasn't such a goof, he could have made some good movies, but his ridiculous assumption that people can't get enough of his wacky fantasy ideas forces him to make stupid movies (or poorly paced, or hollow, or whatever), so if displaying his genius is the "point", he has succeeded; if making epic films was his point, he shoulda tried harder to make them epic, and being more open to ideas would have helped.
I mean, what's to stop the next SW film from being really good??? GL, that's what, and if he can cause it, he can sure as heck prevent it. I hope the SW prequesl are a reverse of LOTR- TPM was bad, AOTC was pretty good, E III will be so good it hurts to recall, exactly the opposite of ROTK :D
02-17-2004, 09:27 AM
My brain isn't working today to formulate a decent reply but my gut feeling is that GL can't be jealous because he let WETA digital in on some of the LFL secrets. I would say he's prefessionally jealous of the sucess but ultimately he really wouldn't care because he's already made his name in history. PJ is a decent director with a fantastic team. And if there's any jealousy it's that PJ has better control over his team and is more amenable and personable to all and sundry. People don't want to disappoint PJ because he puts in so much himself. People don't want to disappoint GL because they'll lose their job. It feels.
In terms of movies PJ is not all good all the time, LOTR is jumpy and iffy in places but the sum of the whole project is an all in effort with dedication and love of the subject matter. GL is not good most of the time and seems bored and tired of his subject matter and project. It can't live up to it's own hype anymore. it's old and ragged round the edges and so is GL. He may be jealous of PJ's energy and dedication to work. Vision and enthusiasm. But ultimately I think GL has had his day and needs to back off and die quietly. leave some room for fresher talent to take the mainstage.
02-17-2004, 10:25 AM
I don't think there's a jelousy involded, but in watching the LOTR movies, the characters, including some of the background characters were so well developed, or at least defined, that I cared if some of those extras got killed during the battles. When I watch the SW prequels, I don't care about even the main characters such as when Qui-Gon was killed.
When the pictures statred appearing of all the new Jedi for AOTC, I was excited. I wanted to know more about them. I was incredibly disappointed when none of them had a single speaking line, or even a close-up reaction shot. With this in mind, how are we supposed to care when they all get wiped out in Ep. 3? They have less personality than the battle droids.
The LOTR movies pack a lot of story into their running times. The SW movies do not. Anakin's wrestling with the good side/dark side in AOTC could have been really emotionally involving, but it was about as subtle as Jack Nicholson's switch to insanity in "The Shining."
I think Lucas has not used his time between ROTJ and TPM to think at all about what he wanted to do. Instead, he bought into all of that Joseph Campbell stuff that was attributed to the OT, when the OT was originally meant to be a "Flash Gordon" serial style adventure. This is why the PT is bogged down with all of the Mythiucal overtones and self-importance, hence the stiff dialogue, lack of humor, and inconsistant Jedi as religious/mythological heroes that we've been given. I don't have a problem with him embracing the grand opera content that he wants to, but he should really have taken the time to think it all out instead of making it up as he goes from movie to movie, and I suppose, figuring he can spend the next 20 years going back and reshooting, and reediting material in endless special edition revisions.
02-17-2004, 02:38 PM
I don't think there is any jealousy either. GL made his movies and PJ did his own thing. They are apples and oranges, as pointed out. GL is trying ot make a big budget film, trying to recreate events that had happened before his last Trilogy. All in all the prequels are good films, and he should have nothing to be jealous about. The one thing he needs to do in this last one is tie up any loose ends, and have it lead into the OT.
LOTR is an awesome Trilogy in its own right. Granted PJ did have the books to use as guidlines, but what he did was give it his own twist. Recreating massive battle scenes such as Helms Deep and all is great. The Specuial Effects are great. Gollum is fantastic. WHen looking at these two in the future, SW will be SW, and LOTR will be LOTR and thats about it.
02-18-2004, 06:16 AM
"Jealous"? Why on Earth would GL be jealous? For a start he is a professional adult and I cannot see a professional adult - no matter how flawed - being jealous of another professional's success unless you're talking about b*tchy drama queens like Bette Davis and Joan Crawford!
What a divisive and churlish thing to question! What about all the accomplished musicians giving mad props to each other? Are they jealous?
Sorry to rant but I don't know why anyone would want to question this. Okay so it is fun to Lucasbash about the prequels (which I love) as far as his film making skills go, but to get personal about his emotions? Come on, aren't we a little too evolved for that?
SW and LOTR occupy similar ground in terms of audiences and fantasy, but in a real world situation, GL is just as likely to be jealous of Memento as he is of Lord of the Rings. Peter Jackson did a fantastic job in interpreting Tolkien. GL created SW and put it on the screen so as you so accurately put it; apples and oranges
Okay, disappointed rant over. ;)
02-18-2004, 09:20 AM
Hey, Jeddah, did you see TPM??? ;)
Seeing as LOTR was called "this generations' SW" and GL actually made a SW for this generation, it's gotta be a tad annoying, at the very least...
I agree with Jargo about PJ, though, he can make real lousy movies,too... I would say that he hit the "jack-pot" (no pun really intended:D) with LOTR same as GL did with SW, so many factors perfectly executed to make it a BIG success... and just like GL, he got scared by the 3rd one (IMO) and started trying to make the movie better based on what he thought he knew/learned and ended up going too far and weakening the final film, just like GL...
I really do hope that the success of LOTR pushes GL, as I mentioned above...
GL has to be a bit disappointed, I know he doesn't care what the critics say or anything, but from what he can hear from the audience dollars, he must at least understand that its not his "vision" that made the films work, and that's gotta smart just a little....
PS if I just didn't understand TPM, well, I guess forget what I just said.
IF on the other hand, it was a steaming loaf like I seem to recall and that was the best GL could do(as he made it sound) he's gotta feel a bit embarassed
02-18-2004, 03:25 PM
I think the only thing he could really be jealous about is PJ coming up with filming the movies at once, then spending a year on effects for each.. Just think if GL would do that, he could do 2-3 trilogies in the time it takes to do one. :p
I doubt he's jealous of PJ though, LOTR is much different than SW considering there were fans of LOTR decades before SW was even a gleam in GL's eye.
02-19-2004, 05:15 AM
:p @ Mab
Several trill-billion times. (well, Queen Amidala's opening scenes and her scenes at the Senate, at least) ;)
I don't think jealousy would come into play here at all.
Like Jeddah said, I'm sure George is above that. His mouthpiece Rick McCallum went on record as sayng what big fans LFL are of PJ and his LOTR films. :)
As for PJ, I think he should be proud of the work he did on LOTR. It's really magnificent. Sure, I have my fair number of criticisms about LOTR but he did a wonderful job overall. Hell, if anyone should be jealous of PJ it should be the PJ of old. Back when he was making better movies than LOTR and not getting recognition for them . . . Dead Alive, The Frighteners, both very good movies ! :)
02-19-2004, 08:03 AM
and "bad Taste" is kinda funny too, in a weird way.. someone gave that to me for my b-day last year and it was interesting to see the similarities between it and LOTR, especially in the creature designs
Jeddah- somehow I knew that :D
I'll stop bashing TPM now, for at least a few months, 21B has been getting neglected lately:)
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