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JediTricks
09-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Huh? Yeah it did. X was blown up when its inhabitants tried firing a doomsday device at the Giant Planet, but it malfunctioned and destroyed Planet X instead.Here's what Soundwave's box says about it:

Planet X does not exist. It is a code word linking those who claim no world as their home, a secret society of evil robots whose shadowy goals are shrouded behind a web of deceit. No one knows how many Planet X agents there are in the universe, or who they are. All that is known is that wherever one of these vile robots goes, ruin soon follows.

Dominic Guglieme
09-19-2006, 06:16 PM
notes on Planet X. Depending one which source you use, X was either destroyed, or never existed in the first place. Actually, strict reading of both sources reconciles them. Soundwave's box is written in the present tense, implying that the planet does not exist now, but saying nothing about its past existence.


On the subject of the Defense Team, I am not a big fan of any of them. Scattorshot is the best of the batch, but even so, that is not saying much. They all of aesthetic failing. Redalert has the most idiotically placed seat I have ever seen on any toy (and that is speaking as someone who has looked over a fair amount of late run GI Joe vehicles. A seat directly behind the engines on an ICBM is just idiotic. Hotshot, and to a lesser degree Scattorshot have a bit too much in the way of goofy gun aesthetics. (And, as an aside, I never thought I would see the day when JT would argue TF story context as a defense of a toy. o_0)


Other points of contention:
Crumplezone is a big, fast looking TF. And, the seat on him is less obvious. Hotshot, while not a bad toy, really does not epitomize the design aesthetic.

While reasonable people can disagree about the best of Earth, I ruled out Crosswise due to the overly and annoyingly complex transform. Downshift, while not a bad toy by any stretch (one of my favorites in fact), just does not quite compare to Redalert. Armorhide was another that I strongly considered.

As for Animatros, the Power Rangers comment is derived mostly from the look of some of the beast forms, mostly Scourge and Snarl. They just look kind of "stiff", especially given the types of animals they are meant to represent. I can almost see some of the Animatros toys blending into an average Power Ranger shelf. (Not having any MMPR toys, I cannot actually test this though.)


And, to answer JT's final question, I generally have more to praise in Cybertron than to complain about.

JediTricks
09-20-2006, 04:47 PM
My response, posted from BWTF forums' version:


On the subject of the Defense Team, I am not a big fan of any of them. Scattorshot is the best of the batch, but even so, that is not saying much. They all of aesthetic failing. Redalert has the most idiotically placed seat I have ever seen on any toy (and that is speaking as someone who has looked over a fair amount of late run GI Joe vehicles. A seat directly behind the engines on an ICBM is just idiotic. Hotshot, and to a lesser degree Scattorshot have a bit too much in the way of goofy gun aesthetics. I disagree with everything you just said, and citing the box behind Red Alert's missile as a "seat" even though it's not described as one or has an included minicon to go with it is ludicrous, that's got to be the most asinine reasoning to dump on a TF ever. You know why that "seat" is there? Because it's ON the Scud Launcher that Red Alert is mimicking, it's a part of the gantry holding the missile, the rear launch platform:
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/sws_scud010426.shtml
As on these models:
http://home.comcast.net/~andy-maloney/images/lib/scud/scud-9.JPG (http://home.comcast.net/%7Eandy-maloney/images/lib/scud/scud-9.JPG)
http://dioramadreams.com/picVEH2CL.html
http://dioramadreams.com/picVEH2DL.html
http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=661


(And, as an aside, I never thought I would see the day when JT would argue TF story context as a defense of a toy. o_0)I never thought you'd use the TF story context in such a dubious way - you're dumping on figures because they come with the Cyber Keys of where they were stationed instead of where they took their alt modes (just like Overhaul, whom you didn't call out for it).


While reasonable people can disagree about the best of Earth, I ruled out Crosswise due to the overly and annoyingly complex transform. Downshift, while not a bad toy by any stretch (one of my favorites in fact), just does not quite compare to Redalert. Armorhide was another that I strongly considered.I like Crosswise's transformation for the most part, so that wasn't an issue I would consider. Poor Armorhide, one of my favorites but I keep forgetting about him.


As for Animatros, the Power Rangers comment is derived mostly from the look of some of the beast forms, mostly Scourge and Snarl. They just look kind of "stiff", especially given the types of animals they are meant to represent. I can almost see some of the Animatros toys blending into an average Power Ranger shelf.I don't have Scourge, so I can't say (though o86 made a different acceptable argument for why he could fit in there regarding his simplicity in beast mode). I find Snarl somewhat dynamic in beast mode thanks to leg articulation, but I can see why you might find it a bit stiff, though I don't see how that gets it to MMPR territory.

Adam
09-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Here's what Soundwave's box says about it:

Planet X does not exist. It is a code word linking those who claim no world as their home, a secret society of evil robots whose shadowy goals are shrouded behind a web of deceit. No one knows how many Planet X agents there are in the universe, or who they are. All that is known is that wherever one of these vile robots goes, ruin soon follows.

Pssh. Box smox. Cartoons is law!

JediTricks
09-21-2006, 05:17 PM
Pssh. Box smox. Cartoons is law!
Cartoon = doody.

Adam
09-21-2006, 07:12 PM
Cartoon = doody.

YOU'RE DOODY!

JediTricks
09-22-2006, 02:34 PM
Heh heh, way to go! :p Cartoon Network buried Cybertron because that's what you do with turds.

Adam
09-22-2006, 07:07 PM
Heh heh, way to go! :p Cartoon Network buried Cybertron because that's what you do with turds.

Ah, but I didn't watch Cybertron, I watched Galaxy Force. :thumbsup:

figrin bran
09-23-2006, 09:53 PM
McDonald's has TF movie happy meal toys right now

oh wait, they're Bionicles. my mistake :p

Adam
09-24-2006, 12:24 AM
I finally found the new 6inch titaniums and they are indeed much better than wave one. Thundercracker suprises me with how good he is.

JediTricks
09-24-2006, 02:17 AM
Ah, but I didn't watch Cybertron, I watched Galaxy Force. :thumbsup:Which has no legitimacy in regards to Planet-X in the Cybertron line. :p

Tycho
09-24-2006, 02:36 AM
Didn't Captain Proton defeat the mutant minions of Planet X with the help of the Spider Queen?

Adam
09-24-2006, 09:10 PM
Which has no legitimacy in regards to Planet-X in the Cybertron line. :p

It does to me. :P

JediTricks
09-25-2006, 03:01 PM
It does to me. :P
Of which nobody else is. :D


Classics Mirage in all his painted glory:
http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid=132526

I have to say, painted, I really like this figure a lot more than I thought I would, it looks very cool.


Tformers has an interesting prototype gallery up, pictures found on the Japanese patent office's website. The gallery contains several new transforming robots but no idea what line they're for, the thing is that they look like they'd fit well with Classics line, they're a cellphone, digital camera, and handheld game system which are all very nifty and fit the scale of the Classics Megatron - so if we assume they all mass-shift, these could be in the Classics line... I hope that's the case:
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=6555&dispsize=800&start=0

Adam
09-26-2006, 02:40 PM
Of which nobody else is. :D[/url]



That's incredibly untrue. I'm just the only one that posts here. :yes:

JediTricks
09-26-2006, 05:01 PM
That's incredibly untrue. I'm just the only one that posts here. :yes:How can there be more YOU? Were you born in a cloning facility? ;)

Adam
09-26-2006, 05:10 PM
Yes, but I was referring to other people in this reguard.

JediTricks
09-26-2006, 05:13 PM
Yes, but I was referring to other people in this reguard.

It does to me. :P
"me" doesn't refer to other people.

Chaddymac
09-28-2006, 01:55 AM
"me" doesn't refer to other people.
I think this argument is having diminishing returns. can we "disreguard" it and move on?

JediTricks
09-28-2006, 01:36 PM
What? It's a forum, this is what happens! :p

Ok, we have something we can all hate then... apparently the upcoming 20th anniversary DVD Optimus Prime coming out soon, the Masterpiece with the talking base, the Hasbro suits completely blew it and didn't use Cullen's voice for Prime! They didn't even use Gary Chalk, instead opting for some cheap generic guy, hear it here:

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=6582

Just when I thought Hasbro couldn't sink any lower.

El Chuxter
09-28-2006, 02:18 PM
Speaking of special-edition DVD releases, what's the story on the DVD that comes with the Prime/Megatron 2-pack? They're in the Classics line, but don't match the Prime and Megatron from that line. Prime looks to be a nicer update of the original design, and Megatron is based more on the Generation 2 design (courtesy of Dr Biggles-Jones and the friendly scientists of Cobra). But what's the video? And is this going to be an exclusive?

JediTricks
09-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Nobody seems to know what is on the video, I typed up the blurb for it on AF yesterday: http://www.actionfigs.com/index.php?categoryid=21&p2_articleid=657
my guess is that the DVD has clips from various TF cartoons or something.

This Optimus Prime figure is essentially stealing the design of the Japanese Robotmasters Optimus Prime (Convoy: http://www.tfu.info/2004/Cybertron/Convoy/convoy.htm ) who himself is based off of Masterpiece Prime which is an homage to original G1 prime. This 2pack Optimus is clearly cheaper-looking and junkier than the RM version it's aping, and they added an action gimmick to his torso - twist & punch.

2pack Megatron meanwhile is borrowing from a few sources, most notably G2 Megs: http://www.tfu.info/1993/Decepticon/Megatron/megatron.htm
but is more of his own man than Prime there.

Together, this 2pack is essentially just a side-trip for the Classics line, not unlike the Beast Wars line's Optimus Primal/Megatron 2pack - see carded shot on this link: http://www.tfu.info/1996/Predacon/MegatronGator/megatron.htm

Chaddymac
09-28-2006, 09:16 PM
What? It's a forum, this is what happens! :p

Ok, we have something we can all hate then... apparently the upcoming 20th anniversary DVD Optimus Prime coming out soon, the Masterpiece with the talking base, the Hasbro suits completely blew it and didn't use Cullen's voice for Prime! They didn't even use Gary Chalk, instead opting for some cheap generic guy, hear it here:

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=6582

Just when I thought Hasbro couldn't sink any lower.
Well, on the plus side, this disappointment arrives just in time for waves of fans to complain at BotCon. Hooray for bad timing!

JediTricks
09-29-2006, 07:14 PM
Yesterday I took a random trip to TRU and found all 3 new Cybertron deluxes, they were still having the buy 2, get 1 free sale so I ended up getting Dlx beast Megatron, beast Optimus, and Smokescreen for $20 - that's a nice price! Megs was assembled with his left shoulder backwards, it still functions but he can't face his arm all the way forward and the pins aren't tappable so unless I want to use the soldering technique, he's gotta go back (it really sucks they used pins this way, if it had been an easier build it would have been the easiest fix in the world). I didn't get either BW 10th Anniversary (BWX) Megs or Primal, instead waiting to decide on these - TRU made it an easy decision. :p Here's my intial thoughts:

- Smokescreen is good, the colors are very different from Crosswise which changes the feel of the vehicle, the blue has a richness to it as well, but I wish they had put a "38" on the hood like the ones on the doors. The flame missile (now it's smoke I guess) is dark clear blue, almost gray/black, it doesn't have a lot of character but it's alright. The painted red is darker than the plastic red, but it all works together pretty well. I like the bot mode colors until we get to the head, it's red and just puts too much emphasis on the color overall - the G1 figure's head is blue and was a more balanced look for it. The transformation is still a toughy, but the roof fits the vehicle better than on Crosswise due to better assembly QC I guess. The key gimmick is still awesome and still black so it sticks out better than on Crosswise. Overall, I like this repaint, but Crosswise is still superior for his dark uniform look.

- Beast Optimus Prime looks better than the mold's Optimus Primal use I think, the brown with black and tan paint is more together and the paint choices are a lot more monkey than Prime - that was one of BWX Primal's flaws I felt (he's wearing a white tiara for god's sake!). The scar over his left eye seems weird, more wild than Optimus usually is. His shoulders have white paint, suggesting a silverback gorilla, it's not what I would have done but it's not bad and plays into the matrix bot chest on the ape's back. On his left buttock there's an Autobot symbol - lame. The sculpt is pretty interesting, a little soft but decent. The articulation is weird as hell, he has the gorilla pose but his wrists also let him beat his chest in an awkward way and do nothing else useful really. The figure comes with the surfboard, this time in black with a little tan, red, and silver tribal stripes near the front, it's a bit weird and he can only peg onto it in beast mode - I guess referring to Transmetal Primal's surfboard. The gimmick on the board is part hinges out to reveal the missile's trigger, it's ok but meh. Transformation is fairly ambitious but limited by the deluxe pricepoint so his beast head ends up facing his bot butt, I give the change points for being interesting none the less. Bot mode is decent, the brown head with black helmet, silver face, and yellow eyes looks good - it's definitely Primal's face, and the brown head while again not my first choice looks fairly good in a beasty way. The bot suffers from too much kibble and a little gap if you look down at the torso, but is satisfying overall.

- Beast Megatron is very cool, I actually like this pale pea green with dark reddish-brown, dark grean, and gold look over the BWX lavender version, this is more reptillian and has some details highlighted and subtle blending. The sculpt is pretty nice, the articulation is ok with hips, knees, ankles, shoulders, several neck points, and the head opens and closes, and it can stand on its own and look very tough. I'm a little disappointed the tail is permanently posed (albeit mildly), but otherwise it's good work. He's got a decepticon logo on his left hip armor, gotta go. The key gimmick is lame and looks like he's blowing a big green bubble out his behind, plus the tail sticks way up when open. Transformation is decent with plenty to do, the order is a bit of a stickler but it's still fairly fun. Bot mode is very cool, and I'm glad I got the silver Cybertron face over the dark purple BWX face which is hard to make out. There's some lavendar in play giving it a Megs feel, and the headsculpt is quite cool in that regard. Poseability is very good thanks to lots of articulation. I love the little handle he has for the removable tail weapon. All in all, I'm glad I got him and I'm glad I got this version to boot.

JediTricks
09-29-2006, 08:56 PM
Check it out, Titanium Series Beast Machines Cheetor, didn't see THAT coming!
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=view&album=6593&pic=IMG_3470.jpg&dispsize=800&start=0

It looks simple, but kinda workin' for me.

Adam
09-29-2006, 09:07 PM
"me" doesn't refer to other people.


This comment was what I was talking about: "That's incredibly untrue. I'm just the only one that posts here."

Adam
09-29-2006, 09:12 PM
Check it out, Titanium Series Beast Machines Cheetor, didn't see THAT coming!
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=view&album=6593&pic=IMG_3470.jpg&dispsize=800&start=0

It looks simple, but kinda workin' for me.

Not too suprising, it was announced awhile back. Looks good though. DON F said at his panel (he's designed most of the 6 inch Titaniums) that we are getting a G1 Ultra Magnus, that is similar to the RiD Prime in that it skips the smaller bot and just goes straight to the armored version. He was not refering to the WWI Prime repainted as UM, its a seperate figure.

I hate all of the LoC Classic repaints.

Ramjet is pretty cool.

Tycho
09-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Alright, I read the BotCon Hasbro interview.

Has anyone here bought a Takara Starscream? If so, how did you order it? Link? How much after s&h?

I'd actually prefer the more realistic gun-metal coloring of the Takara toy to Hasbro making a red and white fighter plane that would hardly blend into the real world (like Alternators do).

JediTricks
09-30-2006, 08:32 PM
Not too suprising, it was announced awhile back. Looks good though. DON F said at his panel (he's designed most of the 6 inch Titaniums) that we are getting a G1 Ultra Magnus, that is similar to the RiD Prime in that it skips the smaller bot and just goes straight to the armored version.I hadn't heard about Cheetor before. Yeah, I saw the pics of Titanium G1 Magnus, looks pretty decent, I linked to it below along with WW Fallen and Megs, Titanium 6" is getting so darn cool.


I hate all of the LoC Classic repaints.No kidding, same here, and they have some really dumb names on most of them to boot!


Lots of Botcon news & photos:
-- Official Hasbro Alternators Rumble & Ravage pics: http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=FA551ED6-D56F-E112-4423A4D367F00093

I think that Ravage looks awful, he's pure kibble. Not digging Rumble that much either, doesn't look like much is going on there. I read somewhere else that Rumble won't have arms at all, just pounders, which kinda sucks since he has SO MUCH unused room in those shoulders.


-- Official shots of Classics Jetfire with confirmation of removable helmet, Mirage, Grimlock, Cliffjumper (repaint), Ramjet (remold), new Legends, and new Minicons:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsID=F593986F-D56F-E112-495C782C4065A089

The legends look really weak. Cliffjumper is a really "meh" repaint. Ramjet isn't quite doing it for me, needs more color in bot mode. The Minicons look cool as hell, the Predator team are ambitious, the Dirt Diggers look very cool but not named right (only Grindor is dirt-related, and Dirt Rocket isn't a dirt bike) and I think Grindor isn't properly transformed at the top because of the Botcon display shot (http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=view&album=6593&pic=IMG_3591.jpg&dispsize=800&start=80), and the Clear Skies team (another dopey name) looks very cool with Steel Wind looking like a real crazy wild minicon.


-- Official "Construction Devastator" boxed set, a Devastator-repaint of the Energon Construction gestalt:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsID=F5D21504-D56F-E112-4D305330B3518E6F

Looks alright, but I'm not quite feeling it.


-- Official Classics Ultra Magnus vs Skywarp 2pack:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsID=F5D2BBA4-D56F-E112-4F315E9FDD1F9709

I think Magnus looks pretty good there, I like his weapons in those colors. Skywarp looks very good.


-- Official G1 Reissue Soundwave due Spring of '07:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=F5CF77D3-D56F-E112-47F42BE8A69BB80F

I'll be getting this, but I am fairly sure that their pics are not of the real product but of the G1 original - it doesn't have the new 2-tape holder chest.


-- Tformers Botcon Day 1 Hasbro booth:
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=6593&dispsize=800&start=0

Titanium 6" Cheetor, a very unfortunate Titanium 6" WW Ultra Magnus repainted from WW Optimus, Titanium 6" Soundwave alt mode, lots of Classics, and Titanium 6" Thundercracker repainted as Sunstorm (I think).


-- Tformers' report on Hasbro Design Panel:
http://tformers.com/BotCon-2006-Hasbro-Transformers-Design-Decisions/6589/news.html

I'm so glad they didn't make Optimus a crane in CY, that would have sucked. I wonder what Energon Optimus' trailer looked like before. The Autobot-logo face for Vector Prime doesn't work for me, glad it got tossed out. The CY planet concepts were way cooler than what we got. They confirmed Classics Megs is based around the look of the Nerf Maverick REV-6 which I suspected. They are considering more Classics but haven't started prototypes.


-- Tformers Botcon Day 2 Hasbro booth:
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=6610&dispsize=800&start=0

A major update!!! Highlights include Titanium 6" G1 Ultra Magnus (with big eyes), Titanium 6" The Fallen (I really want to see his alt mode), Titanium 6" War Within Megatron (looks way cool), Alternators Rumble & Ravage, and Reissue Soundwave's crazy popup packaging.

---


Which has no legitimacy in regards to Planet-X in the Cybertron line. :p

It does to me. :P

Of which nobody else is. :D

That's incredibly untrue. I'm just the only one that posts here. :yes:


This comment was what I was talking about: "That's incredibly untrue. I'm just the only one that posts here."Good try, but there's the conversation in its complete glory, so unless there are multiple yous, my point was incredibly TRUE - nobody else is YOU. :p

Tycho
09-30-2006, 08:53 PM
I totally dig Rumble. Ravage seems pretty cool, but I'd love a top view of his cat. He might be too fat and they'll have to rename him Garfield. I'll buy both of these however, though I wonder if I'll regret it in Ravage's case.

Still no one answered my question on how you purchase the MP Starscream from Takara?

E-bay perhaps?

I want that plane bad!

JediTricks
09-30-2006, 11:54 PM
Ravage looks pretty narrow, all that kibble though is probably the same width as the car.

You'd have to get it through an import site like Hobby Link Japan or Big Bad Toy Store (those are the names I hear most):
http://www.hlj.com/product/tkt71889
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10557&mode=retail

Tycho
10-01-2006, 03:35 AM
Thanks JT! I just ordered Starscream! I can't wait to get this guy!

He was $82 plus probably a lot for s&h etc. when it all gets calculated. I spent $70 on Optimus Prime ME01 or 02 or 03 - whichever it was (ask El Chuxter - I owe him big time for helping me get that when I decided I wanted Prime only after all of them disappeared from my local stores).

But it's time to build up my Decepticon ranks finally - there will be Starscream, Ravage, and Rumble amongst my Alternators at last.

My thoughts on the other Decepticons:

Swindle - maybe I should have bought him - but as he is, he's not a Combaticon because they could never make him part of a combiner set that includes a helicopter and a space shuttle, and do it all in-scale.

Battle Ravage - oh please!

Dead End - I bought Sunstreaker, and he's Sideswipe's brother, so that's OK - but enough with repaints. The Stunticons weren't done to form Menacor anyway.

Decepticharge - was this supposed to be Drag Strip? I think that he didn't even come with a gun per se. I didn't want to start collecting the Stunticons if I wasn't going to buy all of them anyway.

Shock Blast - um this is NOT Shockwave - whom I never cared for as a laser gun either. They might've made him as mobile artillery and that could have worked - but a car - and a Jazz repaint at that? No.

I think that's it.

Now because Barricade is in the upcoming movie - I would like him as a cop car version of a repaint of Wheeljack - but that's about it.

Rumble and Ravage are totally new sculpts. It remains to be seen whether Ravage is any good - but still I'll give him a chance.

matthewilw
10-01-2006, 11:38 AM
Hasbro.com got updated with buy it options for all of classics wave 1, including deluxe grimlock

http://hasbro.com/default.cfm?page=ps_results&prevpage=default&keyword=transformers&viewall=yes

El Chuxter
10-01-2006, 11:44 AM
When asked which character they would like to see made, a MP Hasbro would like to see made is Grimlock.

YES! I would kill for a Grimlock to go with the 20th Anniversary Prime. Literally. If the chance arises to get such a figure, I advise not standing between me and the figure. Ideally they could mix and match things from 'toon and comic, so he could have that goofy serving tray from the 'toon, as well as his Autobot King crown from the comic.

Speaking of Autobot Logos for faces, I wonder if The Last Autobot may be a future Titanium possibility. (He appears in Marvel's TF #79-80.)

Lessee....

Titanium Alternator Sunstreaker: Cool

Titanium Rodimus: Very cool

Titanium Red Bumblebee: Sweet tapdancing mother of God, that is awesome! Most of you will consider this to be a useless repaint, but as one of the kids who spent hours pondering why Bumblebee and Cliffjumper were released simultaneously in two colors, I must have that!

Classics Grimlock: Not as cool as I'd like, but it's a nice G1 update. Being the true Grimlock in a new form, I'll have to get it. And tail articulation--awesome!

Titanium WW Magnus and Megatron: Freakin' sweet!

WW The Fallen: Wow! Unexpected. There'd better be a damned Grimlock and Ratbat in the future.

Classics Mirage: Witwicky's Sparkplugs? Genius!!

Classics Ramjet: My God, that is beautiful! Why did Hasbro waste time with Beast Wars and Armada and RID and such, when they could've been doing this instead?

Classics Whirl and Perceptor: Totally, totally unexpected.

Classics Menasor: Eh, should be named Motormaster, but no complaints aside from that.

Classics Mini-Cons: WHAT?!?!? Inserting this unadulterated garbage into a line of updates is CARP! This is outright blasphemy! Not only do we mix in a stupid sales gimmick that serves no point, but there are no such thing as Mini-Cons. There are Autobots and Decepticons, and there are unaligned Cybertronians. Period. No third group of retarded little cuddly rejects who serve no purpose.

Plus, inserting these pig terds into Classics wastes several names. Snarl should be a Dinobot Stegosaurus. Overbite should be, uh, was he an obscure Pretender or a Seacon? Dreadwing is the combination of two Powermaster jets. And Thunderwing? Oh, man, that is the saddest waste of all. I'd kill to see a figure of the real Thunderwing in a Classics form that doesn't suck, but it looks like this retarded plane/kibblebot (and Autobot to boot? WTF?) has killed that chance. :mad:&

Tycho
10-01-2006, 12:12 PM
I want a MPE Megatron - preferably as an Abrahms Tank.

Then if the movie names I have are accurate, I want a MPE Blackout (the helicopter, right?)

Possibly a MPE Scorponok - we'll see how that plays in the movie.

Grimlock, I might go for. I like him - but my collection I'm concentrating on is hyper-realistic. So I'd have to see how the toy looks, and also evaluate it upon whether Grimlock will ever turn up in Michael Bay's fiascoes (and whether Bay's franchise will be any good).

If the movie winds up being cool, a new MPE Prime and Starscream from the film might be in order - but that'd be a difficult sell for me as I've already invested like a combined $200 into those characters probably (by the time I get the bill for ordering Starscream from Japan - and I did so to get the realistic gun metal paint scheme as a pending US Hasbro release will make him more traditional white and red and hardly Alternator realistic).

You know the Classics line looks awesome to me, but I've developed a taste for Alternator "desktop toy" scales and I don't think I can go back.

I beg them to do movie-style Alternators for BumbleBee (Camaro) Ironhide (new head on Nemesis Prime basically), and Barricade (repaint of Wheeljack, add CHP details) and Ratchet if he can be done in that size - else the smallest MPE (but Ratchet??? A MPE???)

So we'll see.

I think it's cool in its own way, but I really don't want a neon green Nerf gun. So Classics won't do it for me - but Hot Rod especially (and Starscream) look awesome!

Tycho
10-01-2006, 12:34 PM
There is a giant 40-foot high statue of Optimus Prime in China:
http://www.karateparty.org/content/view/387/37/

I think you all will find the pictures and article interesting.

Did "the Party" change his slogan to "Communism is the right of all sentient beings?" Hehe.

But it's cool - the Official State Party over there approves of Transformers fans!

Chaddymac
10-01-2006, 07:28 PM
Californians - Fry's has the wave 1 classics instock, as well as the 20th Anniversary Prime. Deluxes are $12, voyager are $25, 20th is $74. I got mine from the store in Burbank.

Tycho
10-01-2006, 08:34 PM
It's not a special 20th Anniversary Prime WITH THE TRAILER is it?

I still need to get mine a trailer - but I'd prefer to not buy Prime all over again. I just spent a small fortune on MPE Starscream from Japan - don't even care to guess what the shipping will cost me :rolleyes: I just wanted that plane!

JediTricks
10-01-2006, 08:53 PM
Prime is MP01, Ultra Mag repaint is MP02, Screamer is MP03, Prime with trailer is MP04.


In retrospect, I think I should have gotten Swindle, it's not a great use and the colors bleed through and the chrome looks cheap, but it's something Decepticon and pretty different from Hound thanks to coloring.

Dead End is one of the best vehicle modes in the line, way better-looking than Sunstreaker.

Decepticharge is ok, I like the mold and it's always good to have villains, makes a decent racing car, but not a necessity if you're not into the Windcharger mold.

Shockblast kicks ***, great coloring, looks awesome, one of my favorite figures in the line.


Looks like Titanium WW Grimlock is on deck.



Classics Mini-Cons: WHAT?!?!? Inserting this unadulterated garbage into a line of updates is CARP!This is outright blasphemy! Not only do we mix in a stupid sales gimmick that serves no point, but there are no such thing as Mini-Cons. There are Autobots and Decepticons, and there are unaligned Cybertronians. Period. No third group of retarded little cuddly rejects who serve no purpose.Classics is meant to meld concepts from all the major eras. Plus, these Classics minicons ARE faction-oriented to Autobots and Decepticons now, they used to be just unaligned. And for you TransFans who can't accept that the world has changed since G1... Minicons are akin to Micromasters. :p


Plus, inserting these pig terds into Classics wastes several names. Snarl should be a Dinobot Stegosaurus. Overbite should be, uh, was he an obscure Pretender or a Seacon? Dreadwing is the combination of two Powermaster jets. And Thunderwing? Oh, man, that is the saddest waste of all. I'd kill to see a figure of the real Thunderwing in a Classics form that doesn't suck, but it looks like this retarded plane/kibblebot (and Autobot to boot? WTF?) has killed that chance. :mad:You should stomp your feet and hold your breath too, it's more effective than just whining alone. No matter that without Minicons, most of those names wouldn't get used at all and Hasbro would lose the rights to them the way they did Ravage and Hot Rod.


Tycho, in Asia he's "Convoy" and is not such a bleeding heart.


Chaddy, you're killing me! I was going to go there yesterday as I had heard that rumor, but had to stay here instead, and saw a sighting at a midwest TRU and hit TRU instead of Fry's, now I'm totally kicking myself!!! Were there lots or just a few?

El Chuxter
10-01-2006, 10:35 PM
I'll be voting with my dollar, as I buy all the Classics except these Minicons. They're EU. And so are sparks, by the way.

JediTricks
10-02-2006, 03:03 PM
There is no EU in TF, it's all a rich tapestry of broken continuities, and Beast Wars is part of the G1 canon so there *are* sparks and you are a whiner. :p Classics is not part of the G1 canon so it's as much EU as any Minicon.

plasticfetish
10-02-2006, 03:37 PM
it's all a rich tapestry of broken continuitiesThat's really funny. :) (BTW, yes, I still read this thread. ;))

Dominic Guglieme
10-02-2006, 04:06 PM
I'll be voting with my dollar, as I buy all the Classics except these Minicons. They're EU. And so are sparks, by the way.

I can see Chuxter's distaste for sparks though. They are one of themost over-used and mis-used McGuffin's in TF fiction.

Minicons are not EU, they are official characters. But, they have no place in classics. (Hionestly, it would not have been much work for Hasbro to come up with better scouts.)


Oh, here ya'll:

Hearts of Steel #4:

Bah. It fell flat and imploded. Grade: D Not worth discussing further.

Dominic Guglieme
10-03-2006, 10:07 AM
Dawn of Futures Present
BotCon 06 exclusive comic

After the monumental let-down that was Hearts of
Steel, it was nice to get exactly what I expected from
a Transformers comic. And, when a TF comic has a
title that is clearly trying to piggy back on an old
arc from the Claremont years of X-Men, you can expect
something truly awful.

Frankly, this might be the worst Transformers comic
I have ever read. Yes, it is worst than IDW's Beast
Wars comic, Dreamwave's WWII comic, worse than
Universe/Wreckers, and even worse than the club-comic.
I could at least read those without putting the comic
down in despair. This comic actually made me mourn
for a fanfic that it over-wrote. (The fanfic in
question is a CG animation thing, produced I think by
a guy named Trent Troop.)

Besides being completely devoid of any ideas, this
comic is not just "stuff what happens", it is "stuff
what happens in the stupidest possible way and for no
reason." One such gem occurs in a contrived first
meeting between Tigatron and Airrazor. I am assuming
these to characters were shoe-horn-swoggled because
the voice actors were at the convention. I would not
have minded the characters appearing. But, the
context was idiotic. (I actually dislike my Tigatron
and Airrazor toys now, because I associate them with
this garbage.) Long and short, Tigatron is a cop, and
is pursuing the Predacons who just stole the disk. He
attempts to commandeer Airrazors ship, on the basis
that he *is tracking very dangerous criminals and
everything could go to hell if he fails*. Airrazor
says that nobody is piloting her ride (cleverly names
"Chromia 10") but her. Tigatron then says he will get
another ship in that case, (hey, no biggie right, he
is just carrying out super duper important orders from
the Maximal Council), then Airrazor says she will give
him a ride............. Boy, it is a good thing that
they were able to take time out to banter while
Megatron and co were getting away.

Later, Tigatron and Airrazor fight the Lazerbeak and
Buzzsaw exclusives while the Axalon and Darkside
battle over Cybertron. Then, in a bit of
techno-jibber worthy of the worst most contrived
fanfic, the two future Maximals have their sparks
beamed aboard the Maximal ship at the last minute.
Just their sparks are beamed aboard, into conveniently
blank protoforms, because obviously Primal and co
would have packed plenty of those aboard a ship that
was departing for a long-term mission, rather than
supplies or the like.

It would have been just as easy to show Tigatron and
Airrazor as random crew members (preferably no knowing
each other at all) on the ship, rather than contriving
some gibber-tale about how they just happened to be
chasing the Predacons too.

For all of my complaints about IDW's Beast Wars comic,
it did not try to contrive back-story for the sake of
playing up characters for the sake of show-casing said
characters. Wreckers and Universe more or less read
like a small child's play session. But they avoided
the kind of idiotic back-story a small child would
come up with. Dreamwave's WWII comic at least did its
own thing, rather than try to piggy back on its source
franchises.

Grade: F There is no reason for a comic distributed
primarly through a convention for adult collectors
should be written at a level that could insult a
reasonably bright 10 year old.

Chaddymac
10-03-2006, 04:24 PM
Chaddy, you're killing me! I was going to go there yesterday as I had heard that rumor, but had to stay here instead, and saw a sighting at a midwest TRU and hit TRU instead of Fry's, now I'm totally kicking myself!!! Were there lots or just a few?
There were lots and lots, just outside the checkout area.

They are magnificent. I haven't been this universally pleased by a line since...I've never been this universally pleased. Even my least favorite, Astrotrain, kicks major ***. I didn't pick up Megatron, because they're more expensive at Fry's, but as awesome as all of these are, maybe I should've. I'm really, very, very happy.

And as a side note, i didn't realize the spinny things in Starscream's chest are actually his landing gear turned in. Awesome.

El Chuxter
10-04-2006, 12:18 AM
I got in the mail (and already read) Aspects of Evil, Perchance to Dream, Earthforce, and Way of the Warrior.

Tycho, I have to take back what I said. Springer is a cool cat, after all.

We're talking about the only true G1 canon I accept as totally irrefutable, major continuity problems aside. And there are no Minicons in Marvel's comic, nor will there ever be, thank Primus. Though there are a bunch of goofy round alien robots called Mecannibals, who are a lot more fun in the British comic than in the American one.

figrin bran
10-04-2006, 02:01 AM
darnit! CD Grimlock is sold out on hasbrotoyshop

however, Mirage, Bumblebee and Rodimus are available. remember to use Fall25 when you check out for 25% off plus free shipping. sure it says you have to wait until 11/15 to get them but it beats the retail price!

seanmcfripp
10-04-2006, 09:35 AM
I had a fun little lunch trip yesterday, accidentally stumbling upon Classics BB, Hot Rod, Screamer, and Astrotrain at a Boscov's here in Frederick, MD. I was useless for the rest of the day at work.

There have been reviews out the wazoo on most TF sites, so there's not much to add in that regard. I can say for certain that pictures don't do these things justice. Screamer tends to look "fat" in most online pictures, while in hand, I didn't find that to be the case at all. Same with Astrotrain's shuttle mode, it's far more sleek and aerodynamic looking in person. And Bumblebee tends to look big-ish in pictures, when in fact he's fairly tiny in both modes.

My favorite of the group is probably BB. I love Screamer, but I think BB surprised me the most, and the design is just so dead on. He's small and cute, but stocky and tough looking all at the same time. Absolutely perfect.

Only thing I'm worried about with Classics is the timing. I'm afraid Hasbro will lose sight of it when the movie hits next summer. At Botcon, they seemed to hint at getting all the Seekers out in one way or another, which would fill out the Decepticon ranks nicely, but I'm worried about them getting out enough of the original autobots. They'd be foolish not get out a Prowl and repaint it as Bluestreak and Smokescreen. I'd even settle for Sideswipe and Sunstreaker being straight repaints of each other.

What's the final word on continuing with Classics? Will Hasbro have it run along side the movie line if it's successful? If a movie sequel happens, will they keep the movie line going between films (ala SW)?

Tycho
10-04-2006, 09:56 AM
They said at Comic Con that they ONLY planned on running movie products building up to the release and following it. I am very worried about my Alternators, as I want Rumble and Ravage before this goes down, and I'd appreciate it if Alternators or MPE's got a tank edition Megatron, some kind of Soundwave, and if the MPE Starscream could get Skywarp and Thundercracker repaints, if not resculpts (totally, or partially). Because I plan on using Alternators in place of what I expect will be crappier movie figures, I want:

A-Nemesis Prime re-issued with a new head, as Ironhide
A- Ratchet - close to the movie version, less Bionicle
A - BumbleBee - very possible given the Chevy license for Corvette
A - Barricade - repaint Wheeljack / Grimlock and deco as a cop car

There are only a handful of other T's:

Frenzy will require a unique figure. I may buy one, may not.
Megatron will give me pause if it is that aborted Predator they have been showing.
I paid a heck of a lot (still don't know how much) for Starscream from Japan (MPE)
Bonecrusher will be "wait and see" - I need an Alternator scale version
Brawl - ditto - now a MPE might work nice, but I'd prefer this be Megatron
Blackout - whatever the chopper's name - a MPE is required here!!! That'd be too cool!
Scorponok - depends on the movie. I may pretend Scorponok never happened.

I already mentioned Barricade as an A-Wheeljack repaint being perfect.

Dominic Guglieme
10-04-2006, 10:52 AM
Optimus Prime (gorilla)

This toy is a recolor of the BWX Optimus Primal. Over-all, I actually like this toy better. The brown color on the fur looks better than one might expect, and the fact this toy is 5 dollars cheaper will likely appeal to collectors who did not want the PVC packed with the BWX toy. The biggest problem is the uninspired character profile on the packaging.
Grade: B Worth picking up, even if you have the BWX toy.




I got in the mail (and already read) Aspects of Evil, Perchance to Dream, Earthforce, and Way of the Warrior.

Tycho, I have to take back what I said. Springer is a cool cat, after all.

We're talking about the only true G1 canon I accept as totally irrefutable, major continuity problems aside. And there are no Minicons in Marvel's comic, nor will there ever be, thank Primus. Though there are a bunch of goofy round alien robots called Mecannibals, who are a lot more fun in the British comic than in the American one.


The Marvel stuff has been over-written like pre-Crisis DC, not two ways about it. I liked some of the UK comics (not so much the stuff listed above), but I would not argue that it is inviolate. If nothing else, the continuity is too much a mess, and there are far too many dud issues for me to defend it as perfect.

And, what is the problem with Minicons? Objectively, we got a fair amount of well engineered toys, and in the context of the comics, we got a new set of well written characters.

JediTricks
10-04-2006, 03:01 PM
I picked up TF:Classics Starscream, Bumblebee, Rodimus, & Optimus Prime. I will post about them more but I actually have to run in a few minutes.


Dom, tell us how you really feel about that comic. :p I can tell it really cheesed you off because it got over twice as much coverage as most of your comic reviews. ;)



There were lots and lots, just outside the checkout area.I wish I had read that before I went there, I had to figure it out for myself as a few figures were strewn throughout the toy aisle. I was glad to see all the TFs by checkout though, as were half the adults in the joint - nothing brings out the kid in computer geeks like Transformers at Fry's, eh? :D

I am glad you dig yours, I didn't pick up Megs or Astrotrain because I am not willing to pay over retail for 'em. The others are very cool, though Starscream is my least-favorite of the bunch because of the kibble in alt mode, blocky bot mode, and milky silver plastic.

They also had DVD Prime, what a piece of crap, that voice sounds even worse in person!



What's the final word on continuing with Classics? Will Hasbro have it run along side the movie line if it's successful? If a movie sequel happens, will they keep the movie line going between films (ala SW)?There's no specific future for it yet, they're considering extending it due to positive reaction but that would take an extra year, it'd come after the movie toys have come and gone (that's timeline-oriented, the movie toys will probably keep coming if they decide to do more Classics).



Optimus Prime (gorilla)

This toy is a recolor of the BWX Optimus Primal. Over-all, I actually like this toy better. The brown color on the fur looks better than one might expect, and the fact this toy is 5 dollars cheaper will likely appeal to collectors who did not want the PVC packed with the BWX toy. The biggest problem is the uninspired character profile on the packaging.
Grade: B Worth picking up, even if you have the BWX toy. Glad to hear you feel the same way about it that I do.

Dominic Guglieme
10-04-2006, 04:25 PM
Wow. We actually agree on a TF. Amazing.







Dom, tell us how you really feel about that comic. :p I can tell it really cheesed you off because it got over twice as much coverage as most of your comic reviews. ;)




Swll, sure, if you ask for it.



Dawn of Futures Present
BotCon 06 exclusive comic

After the monumental let-down that was Hearts of
Steel, it was nice to get exactly what I expected from
a Transformers comic. And, when a TF comic has a
title that is clearly trying to piggy back on an old
arc from the Claremont years of X-Men, you can expect
something truly awful.

Frankly, this might be the worst Transformers comic
I have ever read. Yes, it is worst than IDW's Beast
Wars comic, Dreamwave's WWII comic, worse than
Universe/Wreckers, and even worse than the club-comic.
I could at least read those without putting the comic
down in despair. This comic actually made me mourn
for a fanfic that it over-wrote. (The fanfic in
question is a CG animation thing, produced I think by
a guy named Trent Troop.)

Besides being completely devoid of any ideas, this
comic is not just "stuff what happens", it is "stuff
what happens in the stupidest possible way and for no
reason." One such gem occurs in a contrived first
meeting between Tigatron and Airrazor. I am assuming
these to characters were shoe-horn-swoggled because
the voice actors were at the convention. I would not
have minded the characters appearing. But, the
context was idiotic. (I actually dislike my Tigatron
and Airrazor toys now, because I associate them with
this garbage.) Long and short, Tigatron is a cop, and
is pursuing the Predacons who just stole the disk. He
attempts to commandeer Airrazors ship, on the basis
that he *is tracking very dangerous criminals and
everything could go to hell if he fails*. Airrazor
says that nobody is piloting her ride (cleverly names
"Chromia 10") but her. Tigatron then says he will get
another ship in that case, (hey, no biggie right, he
is just carrying out super duper important orders from
the Maximal Council), then Airrazor says she will give
him a ride............. Boy, it is a good thing that
they were able to take time out to banter while
Megatron and co were getting away.

Later, Tigatron and Airrazor fight the Lazerbeak and
Buzzsaw exclusives while the Axalon and Darkside
battle over Cybertron. Then, in a bit of
techno-jibber worthy of the worst most contrived
fanfic, the two future Maximals have their sparks
beamed aboard the Maximal ship at the last minute.
Just their sparks are beamed aboard, into conveniently
blank protoforms, because obviously Primal and co
would have packed plenty of those aboard a ship that
was departing for a long-term mission, rather than
supplies or the like.

It would have been just as easy to show Tigatron and
Airrazor as random crew members (preferably no knowing
each other at all) on the ship, rather than contriving
some gibber-tale about how they just happened to be
chasing the Predacons too.

For all of my complaints about IDW's Beast Wars comic,
it did not try to contrive back-story for the sake of
playing up characters for the sake of show-casing said
characters. Wreckers and Universe more or less read
like a small child's play session. But they avoided
the kind of idiotic back-story a small child would
come up with. Dreamwave's WWII comic at least did its
own thing, rather than try to piggy back on its source
franchises.

Grade: F There is no reason for a comic distributed
primarly through a convention for adult collectors
should be written at a level that could insult a
reasonably bright 10 year old.

In short, the comic really sucks.

Adam
10-04-2006, 08:13 PM
Good try, but there's the conversation in its complete glory, so unless there are multiple yous, my point was incredibly TRUE - nobody else is YOU. :p

Actually you forgot the clone thing, which was my favorite part, but I'll let it slide.

We are both saying the same thing, but looking at it at different angle. I realize I'm the only one that posts on THIS board with that view. What I meant to say, was while that I am just the only person here with this pov, go to some place like tfw2005 and you'll find there are plenty more people who watched Galaxy Force (which, btw, is infinitely superior to Cybertron in everyway if you can get past having to read subtitles). Bottom line: Box Bios get thrown in the garbage, cartoons get thrown on dvd in the long run. :P

Why are we going back and forth on this anyway? Seems sillly.

I also found wave one classics at work today. There is much love with Bumblebee.

Adam
10-04-2006, 08:16 PM
Hasbro.com got updated with buy it options for all of classics wave 1, including deluxe grimlock

http://hasbro.com/default.cfm?page=ps_results&prevpage=default&keyword=transformers&viewall=yes

They need to take Alt Nemesis Prime off there, it angers me.

Adam
10-04-2006, 08:19 PM
Plus, inserting these pig terds into Classics wastes several names. Snarl should be a Dinobot Stegosaurus. Overbite should be, uh, was he an obscure Pretender or a Seacon? Dreadwing is the combination of two Powermaster jets. And Thunderwing? Oh, man, that is the saddest waste of all. I'd kill to see a figure of the real Thunderwing in a Classics form that doesn't suck, but it looks like this retarded plane/kibblebot (and Autobot to boot? WTF?) has killed that chance. :mad:&

You should be happy there are using these names, in ANY form. That way the still have the rights them, and don't lose them like they lost BumbleBee for awhile.

El Chuxter
10-04-2006, 10:57 PM
While I'm not going to argue against that, why release a character named Snarl in the Classics line if he's not a Stegosaurus? Why Thunderwing is not a weird space-jet/vampire thing?

I didn't mean to offend anyone by bashing the MiniCons. But the MiniCons offend me by their very existence, so bash them I shall. :p

figrin bran
10-04-2006, 11:28 PM
:cry: argh, missed out on grimlock again

El Chuxter
10-05-2006, 11:01 AM
Okay, half-joking griping about MiniCons aside, here's a serious question for those of you more familiar with newer incarnations:

Which Scorponok is the Titanium?

I ask because I read the bio on hasbrotoyshop.com. It mentions him skirting the line between Autobot and Decepticon loyalties, much like the G1 comic version. It also mentions him making the ultimate sacrifice in battle against Unicron (and his death scene is one of the greatest single moments in the comic: "Did I do good, Prime? Did I do good?")

But it also mentions him being reprogrammed by Megatron, which I don't recall from the G1 comic. And his claws are red, which isn't quite true to G1.

So which line does he properly belong to?

Dominic Guglieme
10-05-2006, 03:29 PM
Thus far, there is no meaningful or cohesive arguement against Minicons. Aside from the set being in the Classics line, there really is nothing bad to say about 'em. (I fully agree that Minicons should not be in Classics.)


As for Skorponock, based on the "reprogrammed by Megatron" bit, I would guess it is Energon Skorponock. The faction switching could fit with the Energon cartoon as well, if one stretches things a bit.

JediTricks
10-05-2006, 06:34 PM
Actually you forgot the clone thing, which was my favorite part, but I'll let it slide. What, no wars about the clones? :p


Dom is right, that is clearly Scorponok from Energon: http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/ProductsByBrand.htm?BR=793&SBR=396&ID=18292

El Chuxter
10-05-2006, 08:12 PM
Okay, I know jacksquat about post-G1 stuff, so when I read the stuff about questionable loyalty and his sacrifice, I thought it might be a miscolored version of the G1 character.

JediTricks
10-05-2006, 09:10 PM
TF:Classics Bumblebee - Decent, seems a little overscaled in vehicle mode and wave crusher is way too small for the driver of that vehicle, rubsign isn't applied straight (not exactly a big shocker) and doesn't fit in the back. Vehicle is pretty sporty. Coloring could be better, the bold yellow and pearly white plastic fades the sculpted details. Transformation is decent. Bot mode is better than I expected, the shell back and chest do a decent job of hiding the gaps so he looks pretty complete. He's fairly solid too. Head sculpt is tons of character but could use more techy details, and his eyes are cast in light blue translucent plastic but not lightpiped so they look yellow from the paint behind them when you shine a light back there. I wish the thigh armor didn't get in the way of the shin armor though. Wave crusher backpack is decent. All in all, likable despite not being a VW.

TF:Classics Starscream - Looks great from above, very solid homage to G1, but is actually thicker and blockier from the side and beneath than the original which isn't so good for a jet (looks like CY Thundercracker's alt mode is still the tops). I hate seeing the robot torso on the bottom of the jet, and the empty collar could at least have rotated in or something. Milky silver plastic looks awful up close, details det demolished, especially his face. Transformation is decent, satisfying even. Bot mode is alright but a bit blocky. Pose options are limited unfortunately. Head sculpt is good but face is lost in milky silver plastic. His head can turn enough - maybe 30 degrees either way - even though the nose of the plane hangs off the back. Guns fit in shoulders but posing requires moving the wings, guns also fit in fists. All in all, not quite good enough, but close.

TF:Classics Rodimus - Great vehicle mode but designed with tolerances too tight to reproduce in regular production, so doors and pipes don't QUITE line up in the tiniest last little bit which is frustrating. Vehicle seems a bit small compared to Cybertron $10 vehicles, same body length & width but shorter. The jet engine in the back is cool and the blue flame missile works way better than on Cybertron Crosswise. You can flip the panel over to use the jet gun in vehicle mode, it looks less silly if you rotate the spoiler halves back. Transformation feels more cheaty than it actually is; love the widening chest thing; don't forget to slide the waist forward (I do nearly every time). Bot is decent, again seems a little small for a $10 but is the right height, he's just built to a little finer level, less chunky and more refined - uses a smaller-than-normal peg size for the fists which aren't as big as most. There's sculpted detail everywhere, even places that are hidden in both modes, looks great. Poseability is ok but could be better, the ball-jointed shoulders don't make up for true universal-jointed shoulders in part because the ball-joints are limited in an odd way. The elbows are just hinges, but the hips and knees are universal joints at least. The detail is pretty smooth, it's a great look and the paint does its job well. The head is a little too mature for Hot Rod, but he's not a geezer either, it looks good; the dark blue light-piped eyes are a bit hard to get going, but with the right light look tremendous. All in all, Rodimus is pretty darn nifty with clever transformation ideas and great design.

TF:Classics Optimus Prime - This is clearly a toy sized at the old $15 pricepoint, but be that as it may, Prime rocks hard for what he is, and paint is good all around (although the yellow on his forearms doesn't quite do it for me). Vehicle mode is a fantastic cab-over update, looks very modern without being a conventional semi a la Laser Prime. Classics Prime's truck mode looks pretty good with the vane on and if you rotate his head around (they pack him with his head face-up) he looks even more Prime without the vane or pipes. Speaking of, the pipes aren't that great as pipes but they're alright with the vane balancing the height. The vane can be transformed into rifle mode and attached to the top of the truck, but the pipes gun can't be used here. Transformation is pretty nice and satisfying if a tad kibbly. Bot mode is slick with a lean, heroic build and plenty of sculpted detail. The boots are a bit bulky and long, The only kibble is the front wheels & bumper hanging off the back and the fenders & doors of the truck as shell pieces on the forearms. Prime's head is good, but I don't get why his faceplate is in 2 pieces, and his lightpiping is dark like Rodimus'. Articulation is very good, lacking only rotating wrists, rotating mid-thighs, and up & down motion on the neck. Vane weapon is alright, nothing spectacular and I would have liked to see the sight painted in, it's more of a long-range rifle than a primary weapon. The pipes weapon has a nifty tranformation and its hinge is pinned to one side but uses bumps for the other, so I believe it's designed to be separated as 2 guns - the peg halves fit in his fists nicely, but the pistol halves are hollow on the inside; combined, the gun is badass. I wish the forearm kibble was removable and could combine to make a shield. All in all, he's got a lot going for him and I like him quite a bit, he has a lot of character in both modes really, but he is small at $20 so take that into consideration.

El Chuxter
10-06-2006, 10:30 AM
Classics are at WM now!

I scored Optimus Prime, Hot Rod Rodimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream, and Astrotrain about an hour ago.

They had a carpload of DVD Prime, too. You were right, JT. That voice sucks!

JediTricks
10-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Which WM did you find them at? Were they $10 and $20 respectively, or more?

Yeah, that Prime deserves to rot, but likely won't because of how many folks want the figure.

El Chuxter
10-06-2006, 03:58 PM
Beaumont, CA -- about halfway between San Bernardino and Palm Springs. I tend to find things a bit earlier than y'all in LA Proper, but I haven't heard any reports of these at WM anywhere yet.

Yeah, $10, $20, and $70 for DVD Prime.

kool-aid killer
10-06-2006, 08:55 PM
I found them at a TRU earlier today, and picked up Starscream because he was the most appealing to me. I plan on getting the others here and there, with Astrotrain or Optimus being my next pick. Ive been to a Target and Walmart here in Omaha today also, but neither of them had the Classics.

figrin bran
10-07-2006, 01:55 AM
Which WM did you find them at? Were they $10 and $20 respectively, or more?

Yeah, that Prime deserves to rot, but likely won't because of how many folks want the figure.

hey, i want it! i even ordered it off of hasbrotoyshop. it's not worth $70 but with 25% off and free shipping, it's not bad.

El Chuxter
10-07-2006, 04:21 AM
I cracked open Starscream, Prime, and Bumbles so far.

By Primus, if the recent figures in other lines have been this nice, I can see how so many of you have been willing to overlook such blasphemies as MiniCons and Prime being a monkey. :p

Seriously, these are some damned nice figures. With Starscream, especially, I couldn't help but think back to the original, and what an utter pice of carp it seems like in comparison.

Tycho, you'll want these. Trust me. Give in and pick up just one, and you'll be hooked.

Edit: I just checked hasbrotoyshop.com for the status on the out-of-stock TF's. All of the Classics have been cleared off the site (including Mirage!), except for Grimlock. Still out of stock, sadly. I may break down and get the three in-stock 6" Titaniums at $12 each, and grab the Jetfire that's been sitting on the shelf at Target for the past week or so. It doesn't appear either Grimlock is going to be available anytime soon.

Tycho
10-07-2006, 08:15 AM
It tempts me Chuxter. It tempts me. When I see them in the stores it might cripple my resolve, but I can't wait until my Tarkara Starscream comes. The order said it was "in stock," but they haven't charged me for him yet, nor sent it obviously.

JediTricks
10-07-2006, 04:59 PM
One of the guys on BWTF's forums got his MP Starscream already and says there's no die-cast and he's way smaller than MP Prime and his gray base color has a green tint to it. That's pretty weak.


Chux, if you think that Starscream is the bee's knees... well, what criteria are you judging by? There's a lot of more awesome figures than that in the last 4 years, Screamer's ok but is outpaced by a lot of entries.

BTW, I don't "overlook" Minicons and Optimus Primal, I APPRECIATE them for what they are, I like them, and it's all made possible because I'm not a stuck-in-the-past fanboy who can't accept change. :p Dave van Domelen has a good essay on this, check it out here: http://www.eyrie.org/~dvandom/BW/Fanfic/Toyhacks

Tycho
10-07-2006, 05:32 PM
One of the guys on BWTF's forums got his MP Starscream already and says there's no die-cast and he's way smaller than MP Prime and his gray base color has a green tint to it. That's pretty weak.

That's not inspiring me with a lot of confidence concerning my overseas order there, JT. I thought I'd be getting something worthy of the MP line if this is MP04!

I didn't expect Die Cast Metal - I don't think MP Prime is any part metal either. Oh - maybe the chest panels in the front of the cab that open for the Matrix of Leadership. But most of him's plastic.

If the guy didn't extend Starscream's legs or something while transforming him, that might be an issue with the height. I could have sworn I saw a picture of the two MPE together and Starscream was the same height as Prime (about 12").

We'll see when it arrives I guess. I have not yet been charged nor e-mailed that it is shipping. The website said "In-Stock" though - and I got a confirmation e-mail about my order. Since then, that's been it.

I probably ordered it about a week ago - immediately after you provided me with a couple links to buy Starscream from. (I still give my thanks).

matthewilw
10-07-2006, 06:18 PM
hey, i want it! i even ordered it off of hasbrotoyshop. it's not worth $70 but with 25% off and free shipping, it's not bad.


How did you score that deal? I've been waiting to get DVD Prime at retail(I skipped on the original, and have been kicking myself since!), but if I could get him at that price, I would order him too!

figrin bran
10-08-2006, 02:17 AM
Matthewilw, you can buy ANYthing at hasbrotoyshop.com with 25% off and free shipping with the "fall25" code.

El Chuxter
10-08-2006, 10:29 AM
JT, there's a difference between "stuck in the past" and "I just don't like the other stuff." I've watched at least an episode each of Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, Energon, Cybertron, and Armada. I was not impressed by a single one of them. In fact, except for the Beast Wars, which looks like it could be interesting if watched in order, all of them looked worse than the Sigma Six cartoon. So maybe my aversion to spending money on figures from these lines has precluded me from seeing better figures bearing the name "Starscream." I'm comparing it to the Starscream figure I knew as a kid, which was a statue with stubby little arms.

And the Minicons? Seriously. A new race of tiny Transformers who snap into pre-designed (but previously undiscovered) ports on the larger Autobots and Decepticons to give them special abilities? That screams "blatant sales gimmick" to me far more than anything that ever ended in "-Master."

It's not totally dissimilar to loving SW, then thinking the Prequels are poor quality or uninteresting and just ignoring them or downplaying them, y'know?

matthewilw
10-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Matthewilw, you can buy ANYthing at hasbrotoyshop.com with 25% off and free shipping with the "fall25" code.


Thank you Sir! That code saved me $20 on DVD Prime. $52 is not bad at all. Now let's just hope it ships soon, and doesn't follow that "will ship on or around 11/15" nonsense they have posted!

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 05:06 PM
Optimus Prime in vehicle mode minus windvane and pipes

Optimus Prime in bot mode with pipes-cannon separated into twin pistols.

I figured instead of trying to explain this and failing to get the idea across to everybody, I'd just take some photos and explain it on a page I can just link to instead:


http://www.geocities.com/jeditricks/tfclop/

The pipes-cannon thing reads more complex than it really is, luckily the photos tell the tale fairly efficiently.




That's not inspiring me with a lot of confidence concerning my overseas order there, JT. I thought I'd be getting something worthy of the MP line if this is MP04!Yeah, I am not sure I could spend $80+ on this thing. But the guy said it also looks like a model airplane in vehicle mode, so it lives up in terms of that. Check out the pictures of this thing, there ARE reasons to like it!
http://members9.tsukaeru.net/ty1_toys/toys/MP_03a.htm


I didn't expect Die Cast Metal - I don't think MP Prime is any part metal either. Oh - maybe the chest panels in the front of the cab that open for the Matrix of Leadership. But most of him's plastic.The majority of his chest and lower legs are metal, he's mostly metal, it's part of why he costs so damn much.


If the guy didn't extend Starscream's legs or something while transforming him, that might be an issue with the height. I could have sworn I saw a picture of the two MPE together and Starscream was the same height as Prime (about 12").He transformed it correctly, you remember wrong I think, I mentioned specifically MP Starscream was around 8" tall months ago, and I've never seen a photo showing otherwise. The last picture on the page I linked you to above shows MP Prime next to MP Starscream, it's not pretty -- another link just in case you don't want to scroll 2 paragraphs up ;) http://members9.tsukaeru.net/ty1_toys/toys/MP_03a.htm



JT, there's a difference between "stuck in the past" and "I just don't like the other stuff." I've watched at least an episode each of Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, Energon, Cybertron, and Armada. I was not impressed by a single one of them. In fact, except for the Beast Wars, which looks like it could be interesting if watched in order, all of them looked worse than the Sigma Six cartoon. So maybe my aversion to spending money on figures from these lines has precluded me from seeing better figures bearing the name "Starscream." I'm comparing it to the Starscream figure I knew as a kid, which was a statue with stubby little arms.You *really* cannot judge toys on cartoons. RiD, Armada, Energon, and Cybertron are all really awful cartoons in large part because they're not made for US audiences, they're made for Japanese audiences and then American dubbing/writing is shoddily shoehorned into them for US release. Beast Wars and Beast Machines are very interesting and overall very good, but they're "very different" because they're beasts and they have CG styles (BW is different from BM) instead of traditional animation and take their audience a little more seriously than other TF cartoons. And none of that really changes the toys by themselves.


And the Minicons? Seriously. A new race of tiny Transformers who snap into pre-designed (but previously undiscovered) ports on the larger Autobots and Decepticons to give them special abilities? That screams "blatant sales gimmick" to me far more than anything that ever ended in "-Master."How exactly is it any different from Micromasters or Headmasters??? At least Armada had the decency to remove the concept from the G1 canon, can Micromasters or Headmasters say the same?


It's not totally dissimilar to loving SW, then thinking the Prequels are poor quality or uninteresting and just ignoring them or downplaying them, y'know?But it's not the same either, SW is based around the movies, around the central canon of the OT tales; TF is based around toys - not even a truly unified toy line, but one initially scavenged from multiple Japanese toy lines - with storylines made up from an overall tapestry, an essence jumping off from G1, rather than a central canon.

Tycho
10-08-2006, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the link JT - sorry I lost my original message I was typing you but a friend's over to visit and she had trouble parking :rolleyes:

I have to go in a second, but I wanted to say I was disappointed in Starscream's size and hope to God (or Primus) that he's at least constructed of sturdy plastic with sturdy joints. I paid a lot for him. But the display options for the jet and "flying robot form" look awesome! He seems he'll be on par or slightly larger than the Alternator cars I collect (Sideswipe, etc.)

JediTricks
10-08-2006, 09:29 PM
Well, I haven't heard that the figure is fragile, so hopefully it is sturdy. Just looking at all the crazy stuff going on in transformation, and the cool landing gear actually getting doors and stuff, I don't think this is going to be disappointing - maybe overpriced, but it's an import, it looks about twice as big as an Alternators figure and twice as complex, so if it was in the US I wouldn't be surprised by a $50 pricetag, but at this point it's NOT coming out in the US and it is an import so the price is a different situation. Also, about the wing-kibble off the hips, that site shows a way to pop the kibble off its joint and attach it to the lower leg, that kicks ***.

Tycho
10-09-2006, 01:54 AM
Yeah, when I get Starscream I'll post a review here and copy it for ActionFigs. Like I said, I haven't even been charged for it yet. But I can't wait! Starscream is one of the only orders I have pending - the rest are SideShow, but I'm probably going to order the Lucas Family Figures finally.

Other than that, I'm going to chase a few Saga 2 figures (Endor2/Naboo wave) and that's it unless Rumble and Ravage Alternators ship any time this year (possible).

Tycho
10-09-2006, 11:23 PM
[UPDATE]: I got a notice that my Starscream MPE3 or 4, whichever it is, has shipped as of today. I will get it between October 16 and November 23, they say (7-45 days from now - such is mail ordering from Japan).

The charge has not shown up on my account yet. My order receipt was for Japanese Yen - 11,000 some. I'll report what that comes out to in dollars as soon as I know.

I can't wait until I get him. Starscream is by far my favorite Decepticon. I was always the most excited about him.

El Chuxter
10-10-2006, 09:01 AM
Funny, I don't like the post-G1 TF stuff, and I'll mock it (usually with tongue in cheek, even if it doesn't seem that way), but I don't begrudge anyone who does. If I see a cartoon that sucks arse, I'm less likely to buy a toy I was unlikely to buy before.

I don't understand why you say it's totally different from folks who love the OT but dislike (or refuse to acknowledge) the PT. In both, you have a classic story, and some later, subpar additions to it. There's G1, and in that you can pick cartoon, Marvel, Dreamwave, or IDW (though if you pick Dreamwave, you're nuts). If you want, you can continue that with G2 (though you're limited to the Marvel comic here). Cartoon G1 continuity continues with Beast Wars/Machines, but, face it, there are a lot of people (probably not many posting in this thread) who don't like the idea of robots turning into animals and totally discount that. Everything else is its own animal. There is a continuity, if you want to see it, but instead of one "this is absolute" story, you have a few choices.

The only thing it seems that Transformers lines agree on is that they're two factions of alien robots from Cybertron and their leaders are called Optimus something and Megatron. Taking the ActionMasters into account, I can't even list actual transformation as consistent.

The nostalgia plays a bit, perhaps, but couldn't the same be said about all the Han Solo figures sold in 1995? All I know is that, though some have looked well-made, no Starscream figure since G2 has interested me in the slightest, and now I have the character I remember in a figure that doesn't suck. (Of course Tycho will have a better Starscream soon, but that's out way of my budget right now, barring a US re-release.)

JediTricks
10-10-2006, 02:04 PM
Tycho, it's MP-03, Prime with trailer is MP-04. Good luck getting it sooner rather than later.



I don't understand why you say it's totally different from folks who love the OT but dislike (or refuse to acknowledge) the PT. In both, you have a classic story, and some later, subpar additions to it. There's G1, and in that you can pick cartoon, Marvel, Dreamwave, or IDW (though if you pick Dreamwave, you're nuts). If you want, you can continue that with G2 (though you're limited to the Marvel comic here). Cartoon G1 continuity continues with Beast Wars/Machines, but, face it, there are a lot of people (probably not many posting in this thread) who don't like the idea of robots turning into animals and totally discount that. Everything else is its own animal. There is a continuity, if you want to see it, but instead of one "this is absolute" story, you have a few choices.Because with Transformers the toys came before the story and even the US toyline while Star Wars is the basis of Star Wars and the prequels tales were conceived of intending not to be told. Because the G1 storyline was created of as a way to sell toys whereas Star Wars was conceived of as a way to tell old tales in exciting new ways. Because Hasbro is the helmer of Transformers canon and doesn't say that G1 is the only canon and everything else is EU whereas Star Wars is helmed by Lucas who indeed makes distinctions between those sorts of things. SW & Transformers is apples & oranges. Hasbro says there is no one Transformers continuity and they should know, they are the creators and license-holders of the brand, instead there is a foundation and an essence but formed into a tapestry of tales and continuities which Hasbro treats with varying importance - you think if G1 was "the canon" this upcoming movie would look the way it does?



The only thing it seems that Transformers lines agree on is that they're two factions of alien robots from Cybertron and their leaders are called Optimus something and Megatron. Taking the ActionMasters into account, I can't even list actual transformation as consistent.Beast Wars also has morphing rather than transformation, a travesty. A lot of TF fans also take Japanese canon into account where there is nobody named "Optimus anything".

El Chuxter
10-10-2006, 02:32 PM
I'm using "canon" as a relative term, because any fiction is relative by its nature; it's not a verifiable fact of history. Maybe I should use a different word. Regardless of what most of us like to think, fiction exists differently within every reader's (or viewer's) mind. If I choose to only acknowledge the original line as what I care in any way, shape, or form about, Hasbro is powerless to tell me I'm wrong. Just as George Lucas can spout whatever revisionism he wants to about Star Wars, but he can't actually climb into anyone's head and force them to believe him.

JediTricks
10-10-2006, 02:39 PM
"Canon" is not about verifiable facts, it is defined as "the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art; any comprehensive list of books within a field; the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic", it is something an authority defines as authentic, it is essentially an artificial description of what is considered the accepted works, someone of authority defines that comprehensive list whether it is the general consensus, the Christian church, or the author/licenseholder - in Star Wars, that is George Lucas who has to tell us that his fictional works are the only canon; in Transformers it is Hasbro who defines which works are or are not canon.

Canon in the way we are using it is essentially the author telling the audience what the "facts" of their fictional universe are, they are the truths within that body of work - Star Wars has a single statement of "truths", a canon, while Transformers has no single statement of "truths", its author says that there are many different canons so none can be the canon (not even G1 since the toys proceed the story and they come from Microman Micro-Change, Diaclone, and others), the author Hasbro says there is no 1 "truth" that overrides the others and that's what makes it a tapestry for Transformers rather than a single canon.

JediTricks
10-10-2006, 03:00 PM
Oh man, why doesn't Hasbro make commercials like this? Takara in '82 took their Diaclone line and created Car-Robots, here's one for Battle Convoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_590CkmWJ7I

It even has those little chrome pilots that Hasbro did away with, those guys are supposed to be the center of the line! :p

And when Battle Convoy got an upgrade, he became Powered Convoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olv-WENSICI&mode=related&search=

It's crazy to see these guys in their original contexts.

Tycho
10-10-2006, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the links. I think what most of us are stating here is a preference for G1 the way it was shown in the original after-school cartoon and our long-time dream that a live motion picture would embrace exactly that conceptualization of the Transformers that we relate to the most.

That sum it up guys?

plasticfetish
10-10-2006, 03:50 PM
Oh man, why doesn't Hasbro make commercials like this?I've been uploading videos for weeks now. Here's the first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm8koEocLY4

Starting with Henshin Cyborg, to Microman, and next to Diaclone. (I have a disk full of old commercials.) Those Takara spots are priceless... love the music.

The small pilots in the Diaclone line are an even more reduced version of Microman figures, which are Henshin Cyborg boiled down. (Just think... it all started as a G.I. Joe knock-off. Ahh, the circle of life.)

Dominic Guglieme
10-10-2006, 04:38 PM
On Starscream: In '98, Japan released a solid StarScream in the BW2 line. It may or may not have been the original character. (Reasonable people could argue either case. Likely even Takara is not really sure though.) Oh, and the LoC Starscream was good, as was the Voyager scale StarScream released as a TrU exclusive earlier this year.

As for the factions, not every TF line has had two factions. Beast Wars had 3 factions (Maximals, Predacons, Mutants), arguable more if one counts Autobots and Decepticons referenced at various points on toy packages. And, Beast Machines had 3 factions (Maximal, Vehicon, Dinobots), and the Mutants' packaging references Beast Machines as much as Beast Wars.

Japan has introduced 3rd factions in various lines.

By any objective measure, Beast Wars is the best TF television series. (This is as much a function of the other series being lackluster as BW being great though.)

G1 had some stand-out moments, but over-all really is not worthy of the slavish devotion of fans.

And, if one wants to argue context regarding Minicons (as Chux seems to be doing), then the explication more or less justifies them.


Dom
-oddly enough, is looking more forward to the next issue of GI Joe than TF right now. And, planning to stay out of OT/PT debates.

plasticfetish
10-10-2006, 05:44 PM
By any objective measure, Beast Wars is the best TF television series. (This is as much a function of the other series being lackluster as BW being great though.)

G1 had some stand-out moments, but over-all really is not worthy of the slavish devotion of fans.Straight up! The G1 cartoons were fun and all, but looking at them today it becomes apparent that there wasn't a whole lot of attention paid to making a "quality" show. (It was quantity, not quality.)

El Chuxter
10-11-2006, 12:23 AM
What's so funny about that is that Sunstreaker looks like he's doing something naughty, and that baby Devastator (it's called perspective, people, and it involves more than just drawing something smaller) is about to blast his arse.

I'm hereby dropping the argument about G1 vs MiniCons and everything else. Let's just say I'll like what I like, you like what you like, and neither of us tries to forcibly convince the other by way of energo sword or twin "stunner" lasers. (Though first to correctly identify the owner of both weapons wins a kewpie doll.)

Opened Classics Astrotrain tonight. He's the first I've been disappointed in. They obviously tried too hard to get the triple-change feature in, but leave the size and construction at the same level as the other $10 "Deluxe" figures. (Deluxe as opposed to what, exactly? Right now, they're the smallest of the line.) While he is still vastly superior to the original, well, that's because the original one really sucked. A simple retooling of the shuttle nosecone on his forearms could've been rather easy and made him a million times better.

plasticfetish
10-11-2006, 01:23 AM
What's so funny about that is that Sunstreaker looks like he's doing something naughtyNaughty? I don't see what you mean. He's just shining his chrome while he sits by the river looking at his own reflection. Hmmm. Well, maybe this next panel will change your mind...

El Chuxter
10-11-2006, 08:25 AM
I don't want to be too graphic, but the wax and cloth look a lot like lotion and Kleenex in that pic. Combine with the "heh heh heh" look on his face, and nothing sums it up better than :eek:.

"Hey, you, get out of my light!" My guess is this story wasn't written by Simon Furman. It would've been more like, "Nnnnn!! Hey, you, get out of my light!"

mabudonicus
10-11-2006, 10:09 AM
"Then he pulled out a rag and some wax and began shining his chrome"

Again, nothing to add to that :beard:Isobars&

Tycho
10-11-2006, 11:42 AM
I saw Astrotrain (Classic) in the store today (Wal-Mart). It is the first Classic I've seen. He looked alright but I wasn't tempted to buy him.

JediTricks
10-11-2006, 03:34 PM
Thanks for the links. I think what most of us are stating here is a preference for G1 the way it was shown in the original after-school cartoon and our long-time dream that a live motion picture would embrace exactly that conceptualization of the Transformers that we relate to the most.

That sum it up guys?It would if this were the movie thread, but it's not so no. :p


I've been uploading videos for weeks now. Here's the first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm8koEocLY4
How come they've got a bored-looking white kid in that commercial? :p

Be vigilant, apparently YouTube has already taken down that Powered Convoy one once for some claim of terms violation (maybe Takara complained) I had to track down a different link for it.


The small pilots in the Diaclone line are an even more reduced version of Microman figures, which are Henshin Cyborg boiled down. (Just think... it all started as a G.I. Joe knock-off. Ahh, the circle of life.)Yeah, those Diaclone figs are "Inch Man", a smaller spinoff of Microman, which came from Henshin Cyborg, which came from Combat Joe. Combat Joe is not a knock-off though, Takara licensed GI Joe from Hasbro back in the day.


On Starscream: In '98, Japan released a solid StarScream in the BW2 line. It may or may not have been the original character. (Reasonable people could argue either case. Likely even Takara is not really sure though.) Oh, and the LoC Starscream was good, as was the Voyager scale StarScream released as a TrU exclusive earlier this year.BW2 Starscream is just a repaint of G2 Smokescreen from the Dreadwing/Smokescreen 2pack, BW2 Screamer came with "BB" who is a repaint of Dreadwing - not that I have a problem with G2 Smokescreen though. Also, you didn't mention the Robotmasters version. And I think Chux only wants G1-themed toys so Cybertron/Galaxy Force Starscream no matter how incredibly awesome won't do for him.


As for the factions, not every TF line has had two factions. Beast Wars had 3 factions (Maximals, Predacons, Mutants), arguable more if one counts Autobots and Decepticons referenced at various points on toy packages. And, Beast Machines had 3 factions (Maximal, Vehicon, Dinobots), and the Mutants' packaging references Beast Machines as much as Beast Wars.Starscream (spirit) and Ravage being in BW means they had Decepticons in my book.


Opened Classics Astrotrain tonight. He's the first I've been disappointed in. They obviously tried too hard to get the triple-change feature in, but leave the size and construction at the same level as the other $10 "Deluxe" figures. (Deluxe as opposed to what, exactly? Right now, they're the smallest of the line.) While he is still vastly superior to the original, well, that's because the original one really sucked. A simple retooling of the shuttle nosecone on his forearms could've been rather easy and made him a million times better.Astrotrain is the one I knew I'd be disappointed in, the pre-release pics told a sad tale. I really like the original, I actually have him, both vehicle modes look pretty darn good, and the bot mode is no lesser than most of the G1 figures with their non-movable legs.


"Sunstreaker was so busy shining himself that he didn't notice that someone had sneaked up right behind him." you guys are all perverts. :mad:

... :D

JediTricks
10-11-2006, 04:29 PM
Apparently MP-03 Starscream's booklet comes with an interview with the designer, and Tformers has up an English translation:
http://tformers.com/Interview-MP-Starscream-Designer-Kawamori-Shouji/6672/news.html

I didn't realize this was the same designer as the Macross Valkyrie and G1's Diaclone entries.

Tycho
10-11-2006, 05:22 PM
That was a great interview and it was very interesting to see who designed my toy that's coming. I can't wait to get Starscream! Still no charge to my account, but I have been notified that he's shipped - though that's open to interpretation.

figrin bran
10-12-2006, 01:22 AM
By any objective measure, Beast Wars is the best TF television series. (This is as much a function of the other series being lackluster as BW being great though.)

Dom


agreed. but if we're talking about toys, G1 is better than BW. a lot of them look too unwieldy in beast mode. Dinobot, for instance.

plasticfetish
10-12-2006, 03:31 AM
How come they've got a bored-looking white kid in that commercial?I know... weird really. It changes once you get into them a little more. The Microman commercials are 100% Japanese. (So jealous of those damn kids.)


Be vigilant, apparently YouTube has already taken down that Powered Convoy one once for some claim of terms violation (maybe Takara complained) I had to track down a different link for it.I have pretty much every commercial Takara made back then. Just found the Battle Convoy one that you've seen. (It's number 62 on my disk of 71. I think I'm up to about 20 so far... though I skip some because they're duplicates.) Go in and check out all of the files that I've uploaded.

El Chuxter
10-12-2006, 08:36 AM
DVD Prime is going to shelfwarm. Hard. It will only appeal to adults, and adults who frequent the toy aisle already knew about it and likely bought it when it was first released in 2004.

The local WM has had a carpload of these for over a week. Not a single one was there on Friday that isn't there today. :(

I saw them sitting there, looked at the package, and noticed the blurb about "This is Optimus Prime as millions remember him." And it occurred to me: why isn't Hasbro promoting the hell out of this thing?

Imagine TV ads targeted at the 30-ish geek, aired during shows and channels that appeal to that demographic (South Park, Family Guy, Adult Swim, and, loathe though I am to say it, Lost or Heroes). Something that's retro-styled to capture the feel of the original commercials, and that incorporates footage from the movie as well (and, obviously, drops the hint that it's coming to special edition DVD). Maybe even a little mean-spirited humor, like a kid in an 80s rugby shirt playing with a vintage Optimus Prime, and some geeky man in a Grimlock T-shirt comes in with DVD Prime and says, "My Prime can kick your Prime's butt."

Just a thought. But, man, at $70, with no new potential buyers even aware of them, these things are going to rot. Sad, really, since it's still possibly the greatest action figure of all time.

Tycho
10-12-2006, 09:45 AM
I agree with you Chux - on all counts.

That's why, so far, I don't feel ripped off for ordering Starscream from Japan.

I still don't know how much that bird cost me though.

matthewilw
10-12-2006, 02:02 PM
DVD Prime is going to shelfwarm. Hard. It will only appeal to adults, and adults who frequent the toy aisle already knew about it and likely bought it when it was first released in 2004.

Just a thought. But, man, at $70, with no new potential buyers even aware of them, these things are going to rot. Sad, really, since it's still possibly the greatest action figure of all time.

I hate to say it, but I really hope they do just so they'll go on clearence. If they drop to $50 or less I'll pick up a second one to repaint in a black-grey/silver paint scheme.

Tycho
10-12-2006, 03:31 PM
I assume that's a Nemesis Prime paint scheme? Where the heck does he come from as a character? I never remember him from the G1 afterschool cartoon.

Did someone make him up for some show or another so Hasbro could be aided with marketing more repaints?

The black Dodge Alternator Truck ought to have a new head sculpt and be put on in regular box stores as the movie version of Ironhide.

It's a good sculpt - why waste it on a non-traditional Prime or the Nemesis non-character? The exclusive only saw online and convention release. They could get away with putting this one in stores as Ironhide.

Besides, a lot of us are concerned we won't like toys made out of Bionicles, or else we'd all be posting in a Bionicle thread, wouldn't we?

BumbleBee can be a straight up Camaro Alternator.

Wheeljack can be re-deco'd and re-painted with a new headsculpt as Barricade.

El Chuxter
10-12-2006, 03:37 PM
Nemesis Prime was a Japanese character, I think. Not sure if he was toy-only or if he appeared in Headmasters.

Speaking of which, does anyone know how to get Headmasters in English? I've always wanted to watch it.

Chaddymac
10-12-2006, 05:47 PM
Nemesis Prime was a Japanese character, I think. Not sure if he was toy-only or if he appeared in Headmasters.

Speaking of which, does anyone know how to get Headmasters in English? I've always wanted to watch it.
Nemesis Prime debuted on American shores in Robots in Disguise and was originally known as "Black Battle Convoy" in Car Robots. It was, as far as I can remember, the first time a black repaint of Prime ever got showtime. He was so popular, he started popping up in show and non show references and has ever since. And will, probably, for some time to come. Whatever - I feel boring saying so, but I'm still seduced by this repaint everytime I see him.

mabudonicus
10-13-2006, 08:56 AM
I think I have access to the headmasters on DVD Chux, I will have to check this out over the weekend, if it's true I know we can work something out :beard:Isobars&

JediTricks
10-13-2006, 03:35 PM
Nemesis Prime debuted on American shores in Robots in Disguise and was originally known as "Black Battle Convoy" in Car Robots. It was, as far as I can remember, the first time a black repaint of Prime ever got showtime. That was Scourge, not Nemesis Prime, and he was just "Black Convoy". I think you're right about the first time a black repaint of Prime got showtime though, previously the Japanese had Big Black Convoy (awesome name) from Beast Wars Neo but I don't believe he was part of the show.


He was so popular, he started popping up in show and non show references and has ever since. And will, probably, for some time to come. Whatever - I feel boring saying so, but I'm still seduced by this repaint everytime I see him.The first US use of the name "Nemesis Prime" was in Armada, an avatar of Unicron if I remember correctly, not a major player. "Nemesis" has since been used for another Optimus Prime repaint, and for 2 other evil recolors, "Nemesis Breaker" in Cybertron and "Nemesis Strika" in TF:Universe - not always with a Unicron connection.

Scourge and Nemesis Prime both use black with teal accents, but Nemesis Prime adds tan and uses more red.

Tycho
10-13-2006, 03:54 PM
Haha. And Hasbro uses more and more b.s.

figrin bran
10-14-2006, 04:31 PM
i found and bought all 4 of the Classics Deluxe toys today at TRU. $10.99 each in case anyone was wondering.

i deliberately opened Astrotrain first b/c of all the underwhelming reviews you guys have posted. i'd have to say that Bumblebee and Rodimus are my favorites. Starscream is okay but i prefer the TRU G1 reissue i have.

Dominic Guglieme
10-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Points of information re: Nemesis Prime and Scourge

"Nemesis", in most cases, implies an unholy (usually if not always Unicron) influence, while "Scourge" is used to denote an otherwise fallen/failed Prime.

And, the first black recolor Prime to get air time was the recolor of Lio Convoy from BWII.



Classics at Target in Everett MA. It looks like that store is stopping Cybertron with a transitional refresher wave.

Oh, and I found GF Prime today.

Dom
-2 more scouts and a store exclusive to go. Now feeling introspective about the hobby.

JediTricks
10-15-2006, 03:29 PM
Picked this mofo up at TRU yesterday:

Transformers Classics Astrotrain - fun but not up to the "Classics" level and falls short of the G1 original. Colors are a major problem here, the white plastic used once again washes out all the sculpted details, while the purple and red stripes feel very out of place like straight out of the 1970s, the bot ends up bland rather than threatening. Shuttle mode is pretty nifty, I can almost forgive the bullet train halves on the sides - if the colors lined up better it would have worked - but I don't like the train wheels and bot chest on the upper back; the shuttle's tail is far too small as well, and I don't like the permanently-deployed landing gear under the wings, though at least the nose wheel folds up some. I know this is heresy, but I would have preferred the rubsign be moved from its G1 location in the top of the cargo bay door to one of the wings. Train mode is abysmal and is the element that hurts the set the most, the transformation to it is trying to be more clever than it is but the end result is a gappy, ugly bullet train that I feel safe in saying is the worst Transformer train I've ever seen - even over Energon Omega Supreme's crane train. Why would a bullet train be so hard to get out of a space shuttle when they're not shaped all that differently??? They should have gone for a modern US train engine instead, it would have been more impressive even if they failed. G1 Astrotrain worked so well in part because of how little his shuttle mode suffered from his train mode and vice-versa, this Classics version fails miserably in both regards.

Transformation to bot mode from shuttle mode is simple, if not for the various little things it'd be downright boring. Bot mode has ok articulation with a ball-jointed head that can look upright (although the loose panel behind it often just lets the head partly transform back in), ball-jointed shoulders on vertical hinges (both loose), ball-jointed elbows that are limited in turning range, side-hinged hips with front-hinged upper thighs pretending to be hips, hinged knees, and rotating boots - I really wish there was more range of motion in the arms, a rotating mid-thigh, and waist articulation, with them he feels limited and plain. Astrotrain's head sculpt doesn't work for me, the original has a tough look but the designers went to the cartoon head and shrunk the face so he just looks like a plain, expressionless dimwit. The body is alright, not much new detail revealed and what little sculpted detailing is new gets lost in the white plastic. The wings on the chest are small and floppy and make me kinda cheesed off - they have no character, the paint looks awful, and they flop about. The kibble on the forearms has nothing to lock it into place so it often gets in the way. I don't like the long boots-short thighs situation and they work poorly with the articulation provided. The rifle is purple with a (non-moving) shotgun-style slide underneath, scope, and diagonally-cut aft which accomodates the low fists; the rifle also can peg flat under the shuttle or on top of the train. The end result is that he doesn't have many poses and feels very static, which sucks because he has a cool rifle that deserves better. He's a bland figure who is neither menacing nor cool but isn't exactly awful, just not good enough; at least with his nose wheel halves folded down he has long heelspurs that keep him well-balanced.

Ultimately, this is another Classics Decepticon figure that almost gets the update right but fumbles at the 20, Astrotrain isn't awful but definitely doesn't measure up to modern quality or his G1 namesake. Grade: C+

Dominic Guglieme
10-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Not too long ago, I posted at length my thoughts on Cybertron as a line. But, I figure this is as good a time as any to post on "the state of the hobby", and wager that there will be more posts like this in the next year or so, leading up to the movie.

Sooo.....where are we?
Personally, I am backing off for a bit. After the QC and distribution on Cybertron (there are toys from that line I still have not seen locally), I am burned out on the collecting aspect of the hobby.
I have been into TF for most of the 20+ years the franchise has been in the US. The only two breaks I took were at the end of G1, and then G2. In both cases, the reason was the same, the franchise seemed to be dying. There was no cartoon to speak of, unless one counts reruns of old episodes. The comic had been cancelled (in both cases of well written runs). And, the toy-line was visibly fizzline. (Lest anyone think I dislike ActionMasters, CyberJets and GoBots, do not take this the wrong way. Those are all fine toys, but none of them should be carrying a line.)
In a way, the current state of the hobby reflects that. With the end of the AEC trilogy, there will not be a cartoon for at least a year. What we are getting for comics is pretty shabby. IDW's offerings are averaging in at "mediocre if you are lucky", and the Convention/Club comics are just awful.
There have always been lackluster story offerings to be found. But, in the last year, I have seen comics so bad that I was not only uninspired to look for toys, but was actually convinced I did not like certain toys. In some cases, I got rid of toys I already owned. The Club comic is the worst offender in this regard, as it seems determined to shoehorn in every toy into the most sub-literate context ever. The few good comics that have come out in the last 4 years or so seem to be the yield of the "million monkeys at a million type-writers" principle, in that so many comics are coming out now that the law of averages demands some of them have to be good. The cartoons are pretty bad, and lack even the occasional stand-out episode that justifies the standing G1 and BW enjoy.
And....the toys...... In addition to the QC and distribution issues I have mentioned elsewhere, and the Con/Club comics seemingly determined to put even obscure toys into a context that insults the intelligence of any literate adult, the toys come across as place holders. Hasbro has said that "Classics" is functionally a place holder for the movie. Even the execution of the line seems to be rather "hold the phone" from Hasbro. Hasbro is just folding tail-end Cybertron (Minicon packs) into Classics, despite the fact that Minicons make no sense as part of Classics. (And, yes, I like Minicons, thouygh they have no place in Classics.)
The line is being carried by place-holders that are not likely to have context beyond the awful fannish comics we get from the convention organizers. The only toys that seem immune from this are SWTF toys, which are problematic by virtue of the fact that they are a bad idea done badly. (Honestly, if the two lines were not made by the same company, people would likely view these as "Megamorphs" or something similar.)
For some reason, I have a hard-time being excited by this. Yeah, there may be some good Classics toys, but......... There were objectively some good Action Masters.
I am not saying that I am getting out of TF. If nothing else, at the ends of G1 and G2, it looked like the franchise was dying.
Now, it just seems stalled.
There are still comics being published. For now, I will pick those up, and hope to get one written by a lucky monkey. In terms of toys, there are a few pieces I skipped over the last few years that I may go back for.
All told though, I plan on sitting out things for the next year or so.
The rest of you?
Dom
-plans to save a fair amount of money if nothing else.

El Chuxter
10-15-2006, 07:49 PM
I just had a thought.

I'd love to see some quality animation of Optimus Prime facing down Nemesis Prime, using the dialogue from Mystery Men about "Nemesises? Nemesii?" "Nemeses."

Tycho
10-16-2006, 09:23 PM
I heard this in my Transformers group and will post it in the movie thread as well:

Don Murphy has confirmed that Megatron's head / face will be changed from the early graphics we've seen (and all complained about)!

A slight hope that fan-pressure has been working?

UPDATE: On another note I got my bill for MPE 03 Starscream from Japan: $97.12 after all charges s&h, etc. That's not so bad really. Prime was originally $70 at retail and now he's about $10 more with his voice chip packaging? Most of my extra cost is likely due to shipping from Japan (or at least $10-12 of it).

It was shipped to me 6 days ago, but they warned that it could take as long as 45 days to get here since I didn't spring for any fast delivery service (don't you think I've paid enough for Starscream already?)

I suppose that my next update about Screamer will be when he arrives. I can't wait for that!

JediTricks
10-17-2006, 01:45 PM
Prime is still $70 from what I've heard.

Congrats on Starscream, let us know when he gets there.

I bet Hasbro is freaking out and the Movie Megatron toy will come out with the old face, maybe have a running change like Energon Prime (he first shipped with a stupid smiling mouth cut into his mouthplate).

Tycho
10-17-2006, 05:23 PM
Don't they still have enough "lead-time" to adjust their Megatron toy mold?

I don't have high hopes for the movie toys anyway. They'll have to be cheap enough and simple enough for the mass-market from kids to casual buyers.

That's why I collect Alternators and MPEs. Thanks for the congrats, JT. Let's hope Starscream is of the great quality that line is reputed for. He may be slightly smaller than I wanted, but I've seen some great pictures and heard good things lately. Not all my questions (about plastic sturdiness, etc) have been answered though. I'd say he is my largest gamble I've made on a purchase in recent history. I mostly know what I am buying when I buy it. (This cost more than SideShow's figures).

[UPDATE]: I just read the Botcon Q&A and Hasbro's answers. Megatron as a Cadillac XLR??? That would have been another I'd pass on. How sucky would that have been? (I have nothing against the Cadillac, but Megatron should be a very large vehicle - so I'll wait for a MPE).

Dominic Guglieme
10-18-2006, 12:15 PM
Galaxy Force Optimus Prime

This mold appealled to me from the begining of the line. But, initially, the cost deterred me, and by the time my finances stabilized, it was late enough in the line that I figured it would be worth waiting to see if there would be a recolor. And, it is good that I waited.

While this is not a perfect recolor, the good generally out-weighs the bad. The parts that were blue on the original toy are now black, and planet sigils have been added to the shoulders of the bot (sides of the truck). Unlike the original, the key on this toy is actually painted, with a spiffy as all get out multi-hued reflecive sigil. The gimmicks the key unlocks are both solid enough in engineering terms, but are nothing to be overly excited about. (As an aside, Optimus Prime's key gimmicks are both in a removeable piece, similar to a number of basics such as Hardtop.) The transform is intricate, but sifferes from large chunks of kibble (the back of the truck) floating idly if one does not build the larger robot. the engineering on the head and face plate is simple, but very well executed.

Of course, no toy is perfect. There are visible mix-lines in the red of the robot body. (I am not sure if this is the same type of plastic used on the original, as I have only fiddled with the original a few times over the last year.) For a Leader Class toy, mix lines are especially troubling. Along similar lines, the robot face could have done with another application of paint (namely silver around the mouth). From an engineering stand-point, there are two major flaws. One is the "jet" mode. This thing looks like a fan-mode that would be mocked on-line. In fact, I have seem more convincing fan-modes on other toys. And, in truck mode, the (removeable) Matrix is more or less visible. Having a leader make a sacred relic visible does not quite make sense.

The character profile on the packaging is well-written enough in that it assumes an ending to the AEC trilogy, and actually justifies the incongrously (in context) armed form Optimus has kept. Oddly, the packaging has an Earth sigil, in Gigalonian colors. Why the leader of an inter-planetary Empire would be alligned with a peripheral planet, rather than the throne world (Cybertron itself) is a mystery to me.

Grade: B A solid offering and worth looking at, but it may not be worth getting this toy (for reasons of size and cost) if you already have the mold.

Dom
-only two more to go..........

JediTricks
10-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Don't they still have enough "lead-time" to adjust their Megatron toy mold?Probably not, my guess is that the tooling is already done and probably has run a few times, they had Star Wars Ep 1 toys filling up shipping containers in November of '98 even though they weren't due to hit stores until May of the following year, my guess is Megs is on a similar release schedule and has already been shot, they'll either do a running change or more likely they'll do what they did with Beast Machines - they released the first versions of the figures as-is even though they were WAY off-model from the show, then a few waves later started releasing new versions with more accurate designs.


I don't have high hopes for the movie toys anyway. They'll have to be cheap enough and simple enough for the mass-market from kids to casual buyers. My guess is they'll follow the current pricing trend - basic, deluxe, mega, ultra, super ($7, $10, $20, $25, $40).


That's why I collect Alternators and MPEs. Thanks for the congrats, JT. Let's hope Starscream is of the great quality that line is reputed for. He may be slightly smaller than I wanted, but I've seen some great pictures and heard good things lately. Not all my questions (about plastic sturdiness, etc) have been answered though. I'd say he is my largest gamble I've made on a purchase in recent history. I mostly know what I am buying when I buy it. (This cost more than SideShow's figures).If you don't love it and it's still in original condition, I'm quite confident you'll be able to sell it on ebay for at least 75% of what you paid, so it's really only a gamble of at most $25 in that regard.


[UPDATE]: I just read the Botcon Q&A and Hasbro's answers. Megatron as a Cadillac XLR??? That would have been another I'd pass on. How sucky would that have been? (I have nothing against the Cadillac, but Megatron should be a very large vehicle - so I'll wait for a MPE).While it wouldn't have been ideal to get him as a car, if it had to be a car that would be a good car for him - it's gray, large yet sporty and menacing, and very angular.



The transform is intricate, but sifferes from large chunks of kibble (the back of the truck) floating idly if one does not build the larger robot. the engineering on the head and face plate is simple, but very well executed.Not exactly an original issue, nearly every Optimus Prime has faced it. The front is a truck by itself and the back is a trailer attachment, and the trailer at least turns into a weapons emplacement - not a base, but close enough for me.


Of course, no toy is perfect. There are visible mix-lines in the red of the robot body. (I am not sure if this is the same type of plastic used on the original, as I have only fiddled with the original a few times over the last year.) For a Leader Class toy, mix lines are especially troubling. I have not noticed mixing swirls and whatnot on the original, but I just checked and there are a few subtle ones. I can't think of a toy that used this kind of plastic that didn't suffer this though.


Along similar lines, the robot face could have done with another application of paint (namely silver around the mouth)Are you saying it's totally black under the facemask? That's not the case on the original version.


One is the "jet" mode. This thing looks like a fan-mode that would be mocked on-line.Heh heh, poor Archer, this was his main intention with the figure, a flying Optimus. I don't think it looks that bad m'self, but definitely always use the Japanese instructions so the wings end up on top and the guns sit either on the back or under his arms.


Anyway, glad you got this OP mold, it's one of my favorites of all time.

Chaddymac
10-18-2006, 04:33 PM
Transformers Classics Astrotrain - fun but not up to the "Classics" level and falls short of the G1 original.

NOW we are at odds JT.

I mean, really? falls short of the original? I'm willing to debate whether it lives up to current CLASSICS standards, with what I consider to be the most awesomest version of most of the figures to date, but falls short of the original? It's an improvement on the original, at least. And maybe different color combinations could have gone a long way to making it better still, but it moves, it jumps, it swings from branches.

It's flipping awesome. Its fun. and Even thought it's not perfect, it AT LEAST deserves a B. C+? Really?

Tycho
10-18-2006, 08:00 PM
Alternators must start with an "A" for a reason :D

JediTricks
10-19-2006, 02:40 PM
DvD's review of Classics Rodimus links to the REAL car he's based off of, a Japanese 1978 Dome "Zero/P2": http://www.supercarnet.jp/File/File-Japan/File-Dome.htm

How crazy is that??? They added a lot of Hot Rod touches but it's obviously the same car. I knew it had '70s feel!


NOW we are at odds JT.

I mean, really? falls short of the original? I'm willing to debate whether it lives up to current CLASSICS standards, with what I consider to be the most awesomest version of most of the figures to date, but falls short of the original? It's an improvement on the original, at least. And maybe different color combinations could have gone a long way to making it better still, but it moves, it jumps, it swings from branches.

It's flipping awesome. Its fun. and Even thought it's not perfect, it AT LEAST deserves a B. C+? Really?Actually, I was thinking yesterday I may downgrade him to a straight "C" grade. Yeah, he falls short of the original, it had clean lines in bot mode and pulled off both alt modes nicely, this new one cannot claim that.

Tycho
10-19-2006, 02:44 PM
Who manufactures "the Dome?"

Is it pronounced "Dumb" in Japanese? That might explain Hot Rod / Rodimus' personality traits.

And I keep thinking I see Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd) walk into that picture and say, "When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious ...."

Does the Dome have gull-wing doors? Where's Mr. Fusion?

JediTricks
10-19-2006, 04:47 PM
It's pronounced "Dohmu" in Japanese, and Dome is the brand, the car is actually the Dome "Zero P2" - I changed my previous post to reflect that. I have no idea how the doors work, I don't think they're gull-wings though - the roof doesn't look right for that - they're either regular doors or maybe swing-wing doors like on the majority of popular Lamborghinis

figrin bran
10-20-2006, 02:28 AM
Who manufactures "the Dome?"

Is it pronounced "Dumb" in Japanese? That might explain Hot Rod / Rodimus' personality traits.


Classics Rodimus has a tech spec intelligence score of 9. you can be highly intelligent and yet still be a poor leader.

JediTricks
10-20-2006, 08:25 PM
I picked up TF:Classics Megatron yesterday, he's better than I expected really, and I figured out that the pegs on the wings holding the scope in gun mode are minicon hardpoints. :D Here's my preliminary opinion:

Transformers Classics Megatron - better than I expected, a decent toy that's fun in both modes, total shellmastery transformation though, and he really should be mostly silver instead of flat gray and purple; and those black eyebrows from the crest is a no-no. The gun mode is small but not ridiculously and fits in my hand ok, and it's fairly solid. Transformation moves a lot of significant parts which is cool. Bot mode is somewhat straightforward and the heels aren't quite right to keep him upright well, but he can take some good poses. The wings as kibble is heinous but partly acceptable. Decent, my early grade is: B+

El Chuxter
10-20-2006, 08:57 PM
He's nice, but he'd be a lot better (especially for us old fogeys) if the "wings" were totally removeable.

JediTricks
10-20-2006, 09:13 PM
That's a toughy, he'd look better without them, but if the wings were legoformable, it'd be embarassing with completely-disposable shell parts.

Dominic Guglieme
10-21-2006, 03:20 PM
I saw Classics at the Somerville Target.
I saw the 4 Deluxes, and 2 Voyagers.
Blah. Some of this is me being sour about the lousy distribution on Cybertron (still no recolored Minicons dammit). But, some of this is also that the line is uninspired.

Megatron looks interesting, but the shell-former thing........ Prime....lacks a trailer. Feh. I have nothing against shell-formers, but in this case, at this scale, and with that execution........ And, I do not mind trailer-less Primes, but again, the price-point is a factor. A 10 dollar Prime sans trailer is one thing. A 20 dollar Prime is a different story.

The Deluxes......I do not hate the Astrotrain as much as some people (notably SSG's JediTricks) do, but it is not inspiring. Starscream looks retro. (Though, I have heard reports that this one is floppy.) Bumblebee looks to be the worst, with the jet-ski not even being scaled to the car it is packaged with. (That is right kids, the toy is not even internally scaled to itself!) HotRod/Rodimus looks pretty good though.

Tycho
10-21-2006, 03:23 PM
I saw the 20th Anniversary Prime repackaged with the voice chip stand - gosh that voice chip recording sucks! Peter Cullins' is the ONLY Optimus Prime!

He's so much an essential part of the character. If Hasbro couldn't bother him while he's working on Michael Bay's movie, why couldn't they just use his recordings from the '86 movie and the cartoon series?

I'm glad I bought the original release of Prime as I'm not faced with the decision to toss out his display stand.

JediTricks
10-21-2006, 06:08 PM
Megs and Prime are both pretty good, Megs is good for a shellformer and is a dandy role-play blaster (I think Megs should have come with an accessory version of the gun, then Prime or Starscream could use it), and Prime is just 10 shades of cool even without his trailer - in fact, I think Prime without the trailer is better in some ways, he's a leaner character, doesn't have some technological crutch to weigh him down with stuff he doesn't need to haul.

When was the last time you got a trailer Prime for $20??? Leaders have been $40 since Armada, I don't remember RiD Prime being under $30, and Primal obviously doesn't have a trailer. :p

Astrotrain's carded look belies his true failings, they're more about the experience.

Starscream is a tad retro, and more kibbly than the G1 version in some ways, but not a legoformer and not particularly floppy.

Bumblebee is pretty good, it's true the jetski isn't to scale (I believe I'm the one who told you that Dom :p) but the vehicle is nice and the bot mode is decent.

Roddy is my favorite, he deserves accolades for being so cool.

DvD gave Roddy & Optimus very strong recommendations.



I saw the 20th Anniversary Prime repackaged with the voice chip stand - gosh that voice chip recording sucks! Peter Cullins' is the ONLY Optimus Prime!I can accept a Cullen imitation, but the guy they got isn't even that, his read on that thing is mega-blah.

Tycho
10-21-2006, 06:26 PM
I got the script to the Transformers movie. You guys might like this afterall.

I'll discuss it in the movies' "OTHER" forum, but I posted this here so that all Transformers fans will be advised. I'll use 'invisible' text when it comes to posting spoilers (so you'll highlight to read 'em if you want to).

It's good though. Some of my faith has been restored.

[JUST FOUND CLASSICS Update:

I saw most of the Classics tonight - the only one I haven't seen now is Optimus Prime. Tonight they had Starscream and Rodimus (the first time I'd seen either of them) and Astrotrain. I've seen BumbleBee and Megatron on other occasions, but they were sold out tonight.

I have to say that Starscream and Rodimus are really the 2 best ones. They looked incredible! Just that they were not in good enough scale to one another to make me want to buy them. Alternators and Master Pieces have spoiled me because they offer a perfect continuity in scale (I'll keep my fingers crossed that Starscream maintains this when he arrives). So I didn't buy the Classics tonight, but I did admire them.

Classic Starscream would be the perfect scale to go with Go-Bot cars or something (remember those?) Rodimus was only slightly smaller than Alternators. He was really tempting because I'm an old Hot Rod fan. These will be shipping for a while, so I'll have more opportunities to cave in.

Meanwhile, there was a Cybertron motorcycle, "Lugnuts" that actually looked pretty good and made me think he could work on the Alternators' scale. I almost bought him and I'll be seriously considering that - to bolster my Decepticon Forces.

Tycho
10-22-2006, 01:06 AM
PICTURES OF THE MOVIE SNEAK PREVIEW FIGURES!

I have the script too, so I can explain these. Basically, the robots come as commet ships through space. They engage their transformation matrixes and "trans-scan" earth forms once they are here.

Optimus Prime will appear like this for maybe all of 30 seconds.

Starscream is actually NEVER seen this way in the script that I read. Hasbro has 13 robots to make for this film and at 4 different size and price ranges, that could be 52 figures. Add 13 more of these Cybertronian modes, and they could have 65! :rolleyes:

Pick a size category now and save some money.

If you read my post above, I have the movie script - and dispite my earlier misgivings, it's actually awesome! I was really impressed. In the movie thread I've used text you have to highlight to discuss spoilers, who lives, dies, etc. and how you might obtain the script for yourselves.

Here's the sneak preview pics:

Tycho
10-22-2006, 01:08 AM
Here's a closeup of Starscream and the two enemies together: Starscream and Prime in pre-earth modes.

figrin bran
10-22-2006, 02:33 AM
The spoilers that Tycho posted in the movie thread aren't enough to placate my reservations about this film.

as for the toys, what's with their being only 2 different colors on Prime and Starscream? and what is Starscream's vehicle mode supposed to be? it looks like a cross between Beast Machines Meg's head and a mutated cylon.

Tycho
10-22-2006, 08:43 AM
WEAK SPOILER WARNING: - This won't affect your appreciation or surprise with the movie when you finally see it, IMO of course. I'm only trying to explain the toys............The Transformers seem to travel in a mechanical cluster, like a commet-ship, actually quite logically like a miniature version of Cybertron which in this case is composed of 4 Autobot lifeforms, instead of billions (like the whole planet would be). When the "mothership" reaches earth, it splits into 4 smaller "commets" that help disguise the Autobots' landing. You never see the Decepticons' arrival like this. They are already here amongst us! Presumably, Starscream and the other "D's" arrived the same way though, as it seems to be a basic form most Transformers can take for space travel before their transformation matrix scans and engages with a local form on whatever planet their mission sees them occupying. This plot device could go a long ways to explaining Beast Wars or Dinobots and Insecticons, etc. should any of the live-action films take up those characters.

"Me Grimlock. Me big space rock." - see it even rhymes.

P.S. - I don't much care for these Alt modes, or even the robots' look and designs - especially Starscream whom Michael Bay's folks have just butchered by way of comparison to his traditional character's look. Maybe by the second movie he'll have reason to appear more "himself?" But the Decepticons never actually appear this way in the movie (though they would have "offscreen.") Grrrrr. Hasbro. "Please grab more money." - They'll sell though. I'm glad I bought up a lot of their stock. The movie debuts July 4th? Depending upon sales, perhaps I'll sell the stock when it's as high as it can reach by maybe this time next year - or partially into the Christmas 2007 season. To keep my capital gains low, I actually bought my shares last August I think. Should be the right timing to deal with this as Hasbro's share value depends on what Wal-Mart etc. buys of their toy assortments - not how much the average consumer (you) like what they offer. The company makes their money when Target and Toys R Us order.

El Chuxter
10-22-2006, 10:57 AM
Thanks, I'll be sticking with Classics (and Alternators, if they ever returns).

Tycho
10-22-2006, 11:01 AM
Thanks, I'll be sticking with Classics (and Alternators, if they ever returns).

And Master Piece Editions :thumbsup:

I can't bring myself to buy the Classics even though Rodimus is awesome and I really liked Starscream.

Does anyone have Cybertron Lugnutz (the motorcycle)? How is he?

Does he seem on scale to Alternators to you?

plasticfetish
10-22-2006, 12:08 PM
...it seems to be a basic form most Transformers can take for space travel before their transformation matrix scans and engages with a local form on whatever planet their mission sees them occupying. This plot device could go a long ways to explaining Beast Wars or Dinobots and Insecticons, etc. should any of the live-action films take up those characters.Well, that's pretty much the same idea from the Beast Wars cartoon, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for them.

El Chuxter
10-22-2006, 03:06 PM
Or we could go the Marvel route, and the Dinobots were disguised as dinosaurs by the Ark to combat Shockwave in The Savage Land. (That, even moreso than the Spider-Man crossover, makes it impossible to figure out early TF continuity without blowing up your head.)

Tycho
10-22-2006, 03:15 PM
I loved the Ark and Teletran-One with it's probes.

"Explore....Explore.....Explore....Explore...."

JediTricks
10-22-2006, 05:38 PM
Tycho, Classics Starscream ain't that great, he has a good vehicle mode from the top, but from the side and bottom it loses quality, and bot mode - while probably satisfying to you - is a letdown. Plus, he suffers that milky silver plastic. Rodimus is pretty awesome though.

Lugnutz is probably around that Alternators scale, a little small though, but is a crappy robot, mega-kibble.


Starscream is actually NEVER seen this way in the script that I read. Hasbro has 13 robots to make for this film and at 4 different size and price ranges, that could be 52 figures. Add 13 more of these Cybertronian modes, and they could have 65! :rolleyes:That's not how it'll work, characters aren't going to be done at every pricepoint, they'll fill whatever pricepoint they best fit, plus maybe a second size if the first one is too pricey or not a good sculpt.


Anyway, here's a link to the gallery with thse Movie Preview figures:
http://tformers.com/TF-Movie-Protoform-Optimus-Prime-Starscream/6699/news.html

Both figures make me want to vomit, and the 1 color each thing and Rocklord alt mode, super suckage! Transformers is dead to me! :p

Tycho
10-22-2006, 05:56 PM
Both figures make me want to vomit, and the 1 color each thing and Rocklord alt mode, super suckage! Transformers is dead to me! :p

You still have MPE Starscream and Alternator Rumble and Ravage as possibilities.

I will wait to see what they do with:

Brawl / Barricade (repaint Alt Wheeljack, add cop lights and new head)
Devastator / Brawl (MPE Quality, with grattitude)
Vortex / Incinerator / Blackout - espeically (MPE quality, thanks!)
Soundwave / Frenzy
Ratchet (an Alternator please!)
Ironhide (alter Nemesis Prime Alt)
BumbleBee (you gotta suspect there will eventually be an Alternator here!)

I'm not interested in their proto-forms.

If they redid Prime in the new form as a MPE - I'd consider it.

Megatron needs a MPE. I guess the Cybertronian jet maybe?

Jazz could get a new Alternator by his name (instead of Meister) and it might look cool.

I think toys will be less "Bionicle" than the movie look. But now that I understand the movie a bit better, I'm beginning to see where Michael Bay and Don Murphy are coming from.

I never thought I would see the day.

Oh - and JT: Thanks for the information on Lugnutz.

JediTricks
10-22-2006, 06:38 PM
You still have MPE Starscream and Alternator Rumble and Ravage as possibilities.And Classics wave 2 and 3, and Titaniums, but they are working hard to kill my interest in TF, that's for sure.


I think toys will be less "Bionicle" than the movie look. But now that I understand the movie a bit better, I'm beginning to see where Michael Bay and Don Murphy are coming from.They're coming from Turdsylvania. But we already know Hasbro is throwing out a large part of the looks of these things, keeping only the general lines, head likenesses, and significant kibble.

Tycho
10-22-2006, 07:02 PM
They're coming from Turdsylvania. But we already know Hasbro is throwing out a large part of the looks of these things, keeping only the general lines, head likenesses, and significant kibble.

That's exactly what I don't like - the headlikenesses, the kibble, etc.

I still think he could have redone the '84 cartoon with live action looks and had it be just what we all wanted. No matter how "good" this might turn out (my hopes were raised by reading the script), the original G1 cartoon is still the best and the way we were raised with the Autobots and Decepticons!

What other classics are they making in waves 2 and 3?

figrin bran
10-22-2006, 08:43 PM
i know that Grimlock and Mirage are due pretty soon in the Classics line.

Tycho, i think you're dead wrong about how the toys will be less bionicle than the movie characters. come on, we all know that hasbro is going to use the milky plastic on them and though i've never held a bionicle figure, i'm pretty sure that the plastic used on those isn't of the same quality as lego bricks.

El Chuxter
10-22-2006, 11:36 PM
As are Jetfire, Ramjet, Cliffjumper, and Perceptor, as well as at least a couple more.

If Michael Bay truly wanted a good TF movie, they should've brought on Simon Furman as either a scriptwriter or consultant. He wrote the best-known Marvel TF comics, as well as the "prequel" War Within comics for Dreamwave and a good chunk of the current IDW comics--a totally new relaunch with little similarity to the original story, but absolutely faithful to the idea of G1.

Tycho
10-23-2006, 01:32 AM
I found a website with all the G1 and then-on cartoons online, plus the movie soundtrack (86 movie plus Unicron's theme and more).

YOU CAN WATCH THE ADVENTURES OF RODIMUS PRIME HERE:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=87407980

Those of you on MySpace can send a friends request and get added by this guy and view the first 2 seasons with Optimus Prime in his blogs. Plus there's more. A great site!

I also received the pictures of Classics Cliffjumper and Ramject, Grimlock, etc. (not Perceptor yet) and they do look great. If folks need them, I'll resize them and post them upon request, else it's someone else's turn. I covered the movie sneak preview figures.

JediTricks
10-23-2006, 03:35 PM
I had an idea, Megs should come with an accessory version of himself, MP Optimus came with a small G1 gun-mode Megatron and it was all the cooler for it. With Classics Starscream and Optimus both sporting standard 5mm holes in their fists, an accessory version of Classics Megatron's gun mode with a standard 5mm peg instead of the grip would have been awesome. Plus, for kids with imaginations that can't wrap their brains around that, Megatron has no accessories and this could have been his. If Hasbro decides to do a Galvatron repaint, I really hope they consider this idea to go with it.



What other classics are they making in waves 2 and 3?Grimlock, Mirage, Jetfire, the 2packs (Op vs Megs, Ultra Mag vs Skywarp), Ramjet, Cliffjumper.


As are Jetfire, Ramjet, Cliffjumper, and Perceptor, as well as at least a couple more.Perceptor and "a couple more" are total guessery last I heard.



Tycho, i think you're dead wrong about how the toys will be less bionicle than the movie characters. come on, we all know that hasbro is going to use the milky plastic on them and though i've never held a bionicle figure, i'm pretty sure that the plastic used on those isn't of the same quality as lego bricks.While you're right that LEGO uses different plastic for those pieces, it's not the "bionicle" we're talking about which is about how piecey and non-integrated-armor and cheap jointed they are in the movie designs.


If Michael Bay wanted a good Transformers movie, he should have fired himself. :p


Tycho, we've already seen those guys, we linked to them a couple weeks ago.

El Chuxter
10-23-2006, 03:42 PM
Perceptor's name showed up on that Hasbro page you linked to a few weeks ago. No pictures, though, so who knows if he's a microscope or what. But I'd consider the name on a Hasbro page to be more or less "confirmed." :p

JediTricks
10-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Oh, that doesn't count, those are "Legends" figures, those stupid $4 mini versions of the Cybertron guys who have been repainted and renamed with classic characters in mind. http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsID=F593986F-D56F-E112-495C782C4065A089

figrin bran
10-24-2006, 11:14 AM
In the universe of "broken continuities" that is Transformers, we've seen many types of Cybertronian aircraft - War Within Jetfire and BM Jetstorm, just to name a few. Well, the movie Megs and the "proto form" Screamer look nothing at all like any previous incarnations of cybertron aircraft. It's as if they went out of their way just to be different and i just wonder why since those designs are neither aesthetically pleasing nor very functional - they look like they can barely get off the ground.

Tycho
10-24-2006, 12:13 PM
They went their own way with Megatron's movie Cybertronian aircraft.

Starscream's proto-form is not a Cybertronian aircraft. It is a mini-Cybertron or commet form that the machines shape themselves into to travel through space. The smaller commets can attach themselves together to form a larger commet. However, in the movie, we only see 4 Autobots doing this, and the Decepticons are already on earth, having taken earth forms, by the time they are introduced (which for many of them - is ahead of the Autobots).

JediTricks
10-24-2006, 02:34 PM
Tycho, it's "comet".

Pics of Classics Jetfire without his helmet:
http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid=138860&u=428
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=6706&dispsize=800&start=0

Head looks cool, body seems a little chunky, but I still dig.


New pics of Alt Ravage & Rumble:
http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid=138255

Haaaaaate these things, man could they be any cheaper with the kibble everywhere???


Takara confirming MP-05 as Masterpiece Megatron:
http://tformers.com/MP-05-WILL-BE-MASTERPIECE-MEGATRON!!/6705/news.html

El Chuxter
10-24-2006, 02:35 PM
Okay, color me stupid: there's a Masterpiece Prime, a Masterpiece Starscream, and now #5 is Masterpiece Megatron. Who are the other two?

JediTricks
10-24-2006, 02:43 PM
MP-02 was Ultra Magnus, a white repaint of MP-01. MP-03 is Starscream. MP-04 is Optimus again but with a trailer.

El Chuxter
10-24-2006, 02:46 PM
Okay, so there's still really only three. ;) Hopefully MP06 will be a certain T-rex with a speech impediment.

Tycho
10-24-2006, 03:47 PM
I have not received my MP-03 Starscream yet, but I received a warning from a fellow collector on MySpace. He's 34 years old and presumably mature enough to play with his "collector" toys.

He said Takara used very cheap plastic, including cheap plastic on the pins that help Starscream's wings transform. One of his broke and the other shows signs of stress from only 2 transformations. He's very disgruntled to say the least, since getting this thing from Japan costs $97.12.

He recommends that while Starscream's engineering and design are super-cool, that one should make up their mind how they'll display him (jet or robot) and then very nearly permanently leave him in that mode. (Mine's going to robot mode when I get him).

The MySpace guy, "Dan" - his bulletin is posted about Starscream in the most popular Transformer group on MySpace (Mooncricket's - I've given you the link before JT) is writing a complaint to Tarkara. However, I have no idea how a foreign company will respond to customer service requests of this nature. With American Hasbro, it's a 50-50 crap shoot a lot of the time.

You also wonder, if Hasbro does release MP03 Starscream stateside (in which case they claim they want to repaint him the more traditional G1 colors), will they even insist on higher quality plastic? (I heard it's flimsier than MP01 Prime's - which is actually quite solid though) But given Hasbro's track record with the Episode One Battle Droid which they managed to manufacture WORSE every subsequent year they produced it, I'm not optimistic.

I still would swear by ordering Starscream (mind you I haven't gotten mine yet) - but this nearly Alt-sized fighter jet is a heck of a lot better than getting the off-scale Classic (in spite of how good it looks) which doesn't match up to other figures in its line (uh - a sports car is bigger than a fighter jet and so is a Nerf Gun? - and a bullet train is smaller than a Camarro....right)

OK - well we all know I'm an Alt-Freak, but I'd freak out if my $100 Starscream broke 2 minutes after I opened him, too.

Stand bye for further details when I get him.

Dominic Guglieme
10-24-2006, 06:25 PM
In the universe of "broken continuities" that is Transformers, we've seen many types of Cybertronian aircraft - War Within Jetfire and BM Jetstorm, just to name a few. Well, the movie Megs and the "proto form" Screamer look nothing at all like any previous incarnations of cybertron aircraft. It's as if they went out of their way just to be different and i just wonder why since those designs are neither aesthetically pleasing nor very functional - they look like they can barely get off the ground.


These are more landing forms more than anything else though.


And, other notes:

JT: Yes, you did tell me about Bumblebee being off-scale (at least I think it was you), but actually seeing it was jarring......... Ick.


And, Lugnutz is a great toy dangit. That toy is no worse than most Alternators in the kibble department.

Tycho
10-24-2006, 06:42 PM
Is Lugnutz older and I just saw one sitting? Or is he newer and likely that I'll find him again?

Would you display Lugnutz with Alternators or do you think they'll eventually do other motorcycles up to Alternators' level of detail?

Dominic Guglieme
10-24-2006, 06:58 PM
I would not display Lugnutz with Alternators, as I do not display Alternators.


Seriously though, the toy has been around for a few months now. For your purposes though, you might want to wait for Hightail, and Autobot recolor of the same mold. As most Alternators are Autobots, Hightail would likely be more consitent with your display.

Dominic Guglieme
10-24-2006, 07:47 PM
Transformers Stormbringer 4
-I actually grabbed a second copy of issue 3 with
this, as I forgot that I already had and read it.
Issue 4 continues this trend, with a forgettable
set-up story that, well, does nothing but move a bunch
of characters around in a brand new, and thus barely
defined setting. Maybe I would care more if this was
not one of many Transformers arcs running at the
moment. Maybe I would care more if this arc was about
more than Transformers doing stuff for the sake of it.
Thus far, IDW has managed to avoid the continuity
problems that Dreamwave tripped over frequently. But,
there is not much else to say for this series. Grade:
C


Transformers Spotlight: Nightbeat
-Much like the old Nightbeat stories from the original
comic, this one is basically a parody of the
mystery/detective genre. Oh, and much like
Stormbringer, there is more set-up for whatever
super-happy-cool-time payoff IDW has planned. While
IDW's previous "Spotlight" offering left the ending
open with set-up, it also managed to tell a complete
story. This issue seems more like plain ol' set-up
and not much else. Grade: C Lacks the style and fun
of the old G1 detective parody stories, and does not
bring in anything to balance the deficit.


Transformers Generations 7 and 8
-Reptints issues 24 and 25 of the old Marvel run. 7
is the lackluster story where Prime dies in a video
game. (It needs to be read to be believed.) 8 is a
reprint of a well-written story, and worty picking up
if you do not have the original, or any compilations
with the issue. The covers on both are pretty good,
and might be worth the purchase price in and of
itself.

Tycho
10-24-2006, 10:20 PM
Seriously though, the toy has been around for a few months now. For your purposes though, you might want to wait for Hightail, and Autobot recolor of the same mold. As most Alternators are Autobots, Hightail would likely be more consitent with your display.


Thanks for the information Dominic. Actually, as I need to bolster my Decepticon ranks for exactly the reason you mentioned, I think I might do better with Lugnutz.

Right now I have 0 (zero) Decepticons.

MPE Starscream is in the mail.
I plan on getting the Jaguar Ravage, the Honda Rumble.

I don't really buy repaints (Sunstreaker being a rational exception).

I don't have either Prime pickup, hence if Nemesis Prime was given a new head and Autobot decaling, I'd accept him as Ironhide.

Again, as the mold is great and I didn't buy Grimlock (he's a T-Rex, not a Mustang!) I'd take Wheeljack repainted as Brawl from the new movie.

But until now, I had 9 Autobots and Zero Decepticons. But we've just heard that very soon (probably Toy Fair or sooner?) we'll see Masterpiece Megatron!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will be good. Meanwhile, if he doesn't look wrong with them, Lugnutz would do well to bolster their ranks - as there are little Decepticons ever since G1 (Rumble's original conception for example).

In another note: I was at a Halloween party this evening and I just often talk about what interests me when people ask. I mentioned that I'm watching all the G1 cartoons off that MySpace page I told you about, and this guy at the party and his girlfriend were completely interested and are going to add on to the Transformer group so they can watch them. He was actually out looking to buy himself the DVD sets this past weekend but couldn't find them.

figrin bran
10-24-2006, 11:37 PM
Okay, so there's still really only three. ;) Hopefully MP06 will be a certain T-rex

so you're hoping for Beast Wars Megs? :p

Tycho, you mean you don't have any G1 Decepticons? and you call yourself a fan? ;)

i'm always a sucker for TF planes and so i'm definitely getting that classics "rick hunter's veritech" ;) . it looks like this one won't have the problems that titanium jetfire has of too much of a gap between the wings and legs/thrusters

Tycho
10-25-2006, 02:24 AM
Back in the day, I had everything - the combiner teams, Sky Lynx, you name it.

Then I sold my collection - even a complete "re-boxed as new" G1 Prime.

But somewhere deep inside, I had a lot of love for this stuff.

Along comes the time when I'm out in the stores (mostly Targets I believe) and I keep seeing the Alternators Smokescreen and Sideswipe. They look too good. I spend months studying their packaging, trying to size them up if they are worth it. Finally I cave and buy SideSwipe - just to see how good the guy actually is. About then, 20th Anniversary Prime starts showing up in the stores. I love it, but $70 takes away from my Star Wars funny. I figure that maybe it's so 80's that it will sit until clearance. I could not have been more wrong and if it weren't for El Chuxter, I wouldn't have MP01. (Still one of my best toy purchases EVER!)

With Hound came Silverstreak (kind of a nobody in terms of the G1 cartoon - and he was BlueStreak then anyway). So I always loved Hound and just bought him. I started picking and choosing a little.

With the Decepticons, it seemes Hasbro was just going to repaint cars they already made: Dead End, Swindle, Battle Ravage. These were much further from their G1 backgrounds than brand name changes for SideSwipe (formerly a Lamborghini). So I didn't bite - not that I don't want an army of 9-10 Decepticons on this scale and detail level.

However, in Transformers history, their were two lines of assembly for the Quintesson slavers: consumer models and military hardware. The Decepticons were the latter, so I figure that my Decepticon ranks should mostly consist of military vehicles (fighter jets, combat helicopters, tanks, and so forth). There are some Stunticons and Swindle in the combiner mixes (not to mention the Constructicons), but with Rumble and Ravage being cars in the Alternator line, I figure that's enough.

I'll take MPE Starscream repaints for Skywarp and Thundercracker, so long as they give them new headsculpts, and the same for Ramjet, Thrust, and Dirge (but include new wing & tail sculpts), but I'm not "a collector," and I pick and choose what I want.

I have:

ALTS:

SideSwipe
SmokeScreen
Hound
Tracks
Meister
Wheeljack
Sunstreaker
Mirage

MPEs:

Optimus Prime
Starscream (coming)

I'll soon add:

ALTS

Rumble
Ravage

MPE

Megatron (TBA)

The only Autobots I want now are Ironhide, Ratchet, BumbleBee, and possibly Hot Rod, Kup, Blurr, Springer, Arcee and a totally new sculpt MPE Ultra Magnus. I may consider Grimlock.

I want Decepticons pretty badly, as you can tell what's lacking from my list. I'll consider MPEs Cyclonus, Scourge, and Galvatron should they be worthy, too. Possibly a sharkticon.

El Chuxter
10-25-2006, 10:12 AM
Dom, with the comic shop I frequented severely underordering, and now going out of business, I'm going to wait for the paperback for Stormbringer. I read a preview some time back, and was wondering one thing.

Can you spoil who the mystery 'Con is that was stirring deep within Cybertron? This being Furman, and the scene hinting at some sort of mystic power, my money's on Bludgeon or Thunderwing.

JediTricks
10-25-2006, 02:54 PM
Sucks to hear about brittle plastic on Starscream, if they do him in the US I suspect they will probably use a similar quality of plastic, I believe the tight mold tolerances demand it. Good luck with yours Tycho.



JT: Yes, you did tell me about Bumblebee being off-scale (at least I think it was you), but actually seeing it was jarring......... Ick. Well, it's an acessory, not a crucial part of the toy, so that's how I'm able to overlook it.


And, Lugnutz is a great toy dangit. That toy is no worse than most Alternators in the kibble department.Dude, come on! Alternators may have kibble, but none of the ones out now are so incredibly thoughtless with how their kibble is used - almost an entire motorcycle on his shoulders?!?



Is Lugnutz older and I just saw one sitting? Or is he newer and likely that I'll find him again?Older, has been a pegwarmer since the day he came out because a large percentage of Cybertron collectors recognize how crappy he is. There's a repaint of Lugnutz that just started getting sighted today, named "Hightail".


Tycho, if you were just looking for vehicle modes, Lugnutz is probably as good as it'll get for realistic motorcycle quality, but in bot mode it's a total suckfest. Check out the pics Ben Yee has of it: http://www.bwtf.com/cybertron/toys/lugnutz/

(BTW, Ben Yee is notorious for being incredibly positive with his reviews, yet he gave Lugnutz the second-worst rating he has both in the Japanese Galaxy Force version and the Cybertron version.)

Dominic Guglieme
10-25-2006, 03:08 PM
JT is just mean. That is all there is to this. JT is mean, and to boot, he is a terrible judge of transforming motor-cycles. Seriously. I mean that. :yes:


Oh, I meant to bring this up yesterday: As far as a trailer-less Prime goes, I know that Prime's tend to average in at 30+ or 40 or so dollars now. But, when I buy a Voyager scale toy, I want.... a bit more than a toy that looks incomplete. Even a simple, "but this box with wheels together yourself, or re-assemble it into a sort of earth-works" would have sufficed.

In my day, we got Prime with a trailer for 20 dollars, and we saw movies, and they only cost a nickel dammit!


Oh, here is a comic review....




Well, as I have a bit of time before hustling off to reporter land tonight........and I hit a comics shop today.....
Transformers the Movie 1
Superman/Batman Annual 1

Transformers the Movie 1
Well, this is.....actually a bit less than I expected. Basically, this is a retelling of Marvel's old adaptation of the original movie. I do not have the originals handy (being that I am at school right now), but it seems to be deviating from the page layout. (I recall the original series being 3 issues, and the first issue ended with Galvatron being built. This one ends with Prime in the repair bay.) And, there is a misplaced word balloon, with Hotrod seeming to say Perceptor's "I fear the wounds are fatal." line. Budianski seems to be duping the script. (I do not have the originals in front of me, nor do I plan to do a line for line comparison.) Some early publicity mentioned new scenes (involving the year 3 merge-teams), but nothing doing on that in this issue. For his part, Figueroa does a good job of working with a some-what retro page lay-out. While he does not seem to be aping the old art, he does a fair job of combining his modern aesthetic with retro-sensibilities. (Just as in the original, if you skip half a page, you misse Megatron and co taking the shuttle.) Grade: B/C Buy it for the art more than anything else.

JediTricks
10-25-2006, 04:28 PM
JT is just mean. That is all there is to this. JT is mean, and to boot, he is a terrible judge of transforming motor-cycles. Seriously. I mean that. :yes:Which one of us refuses to buy TF:Classics for the most arbitrary of reasons? That would be you. Which one of us owns the laser cycles, every minicon motorcycle, Energon Arcee and Deluxe High Wire, Armada Sideways, Beast Machines Thrust and Motorcycle Drone, even Beast Wars Transmetal Tarantulas for his motorcycle mode, and both of the TMNT line's transforming hover-cycles? That would be me. It is not my fault that the designers put the entire rear and front end on Lugnutz's shoulders, it is not my fault the actual figure stems from the small midsection of the bike, it is not my fault the designers locked the kibble into his back with a wimpy friction bump, it is not my fault that the designers made his head pop up so he looks like a hunchback, it is not my fault that the designers gave him a trombone weapon that he can't even hold right, none of that is me being mean, that is a bad figure which you have a crush on simply because it has a decent vehicle mode.



Oh, I meant to bring this up yesterday: As far as a trailer-less Prime goes, I know that Prime's tend to average in at 30+ or 40 or so dollars now. But, when I buy a Voyager scale toy, I want.... a bit more than a toy that looks incomplete. Even a simple, "but this box with wheels together yourself, or re-assemble it into a sort of earth-works" would have sufficed. Oh well, your loss. Look at how enthusiastic DvD's review is for the piece.


In my day, we got Prime with a trailer for 20 dollars, and we saw movies, and they only cost a nickel dammit! "In my day, transforming robots didn't have multiple points of articulation, or creative change-schemes, or faces, and we liked it!"

Tycho
10-25-2006, 07:03 PM
Well I held Lugnutz (packaged) up to MPE Optimus Prime (re-release version) in Toys R Us today (this is the Prime I use as my Alternator Autobot Leader), and said "forget it" to Lugnutz even before I read your contrary reviews.

Here's why:

Lugnutz is not even an established Decepticon. The "established ones" are:

Megatron
Starscream
Soundwave
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Ravage
Rumble
Lazerbeak
Shockwave
and then some secondary jets until you get to the cast revamped after the last Unicron War shown in the cartoon movie.

Before I saw him in the stores, I'd never heard of Lugnutz. So I figure I didn't need him. The robot mode also didn't look too sturdy anyway.

El Chuxter
10-25-2006, 11:05 PM
Secondary jets: Ramjet, Dirge, and Thrust. Dirge and Thrust were just okay. Ramjet is cooler than Thundercracker.

If you're only super-old-school G1, what about Buzzsaw, Frenzy, Kickback, Shrapnel, Bombshell, Reflector, Scrapper, Scavenger, Hook, Mixmaster, Long Haul, Bonecrusher, Devastator, Blitzwing, and Astrotrain?

Tycho
10-26-2006, 01:22 AM
Secondary jets: Ramjet, Dirge, and Thrust. Dirge and Thrust were just okay. Ramjet is cooler than Thundercracker.

Ramjet was cool! :) Thrust really looked cool.


what about

Buzzsaw - hardly ever featured in the cartoon,

Frenzy, - might be the name given the Soundwave character in the new movie - I'm "wait and see" with Frenzy. Because he's small, that's what prompted me to look at Lugnutz. But I'm buying a whole Honda to represent Rumble, so I may as well forget about having any Decepticons that are smaller unless there's a really cool Soundwave movie figure coming.

Kickback, Shrapnel, Bombshell - it's hard to say why futuristic, large and deadly robots, would disguise themselves as giant insects. They should have been the size of real insects and not really indulged the whole "size change thing." For espionage, I'd understand Insecticons. Wheeljack's excuse for the Dinobots was better.

Reflector, - was very cool. I'd like to see him again. But he'd need to be microscopic to be onscale with the Alternator line.

Scrapper, Scavenger, Hook, Mixmaster, Long Haul, Bonecrusher, - they should each be pretty huge - almost MPEs unto each individual themselves. Devastator could still be formed, but he'd be huge - we're talking a 24" robot, minimally! If they make a MPE Grimlock though, imagine how the two of them locked in combat would look! Oh - and I'd change the color to a more realistic "construction yellow and construction orange, with maybe MixMaster in white or something." It wouldn't make a uniform or pretty Devastator, but it might make him downright frightening!

Blitzwing, and Astrotrain - Blitzwing could be done as a MPE - but he'd need to Triple-Change. That'd be the best MPE right there!

Astrotrain would need to be at least the size of the Queen's Royal Starship to really work on a level I'd like to see him at. To form the train, he'd have to wrap up tight with no room for passengers. The shuttle could transport other Alternators or MPE's though (possibly). His robot would end up being very bulky and awkward, I think. I'd be really careful about expressing my desires for Astrotrain because I'm not likely to buy what they could cost-effectively wind up producing.

figrin bran
10-26-2006, 01:25 AM
you can preorder the Soundwave reissue at tru.com right now. it's due in stores in december

Tycho
10-26-2006, 02:11 AM
you can preorder the Soundwave reissue at tru.com right now. it's due in stores in december

Thanks on behalf of those who want it. For me, to be Alternator scale, the whole thing would have to be the size of my fingernail and you'd transform him with a pair of tweezers. ;)

El Chuxter
10-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Frenzy showed up several times in the G1 cartoon, but they inverted his and Rumble's colors from the toys. I suppose they cut Buzzsaw back to almost nothing since he'd be too easily confused with Las/zerbeak, since the animal cassettes didn't talk in the show.

In the comic, the Insecticons did shrink down to (almost) insect size, which made a lot more sense. Giant insects always did seem kinda silly, though the scene of Hot Rod running over Kickback made up for it. :)

figrin bran
10-26-2006, 11:03 AM
Display him in robot mode then! :p unless you're making dioramas, should you be that preoccupied with proper scaling in a toy line that has been notorious for taking liberties with scaling?

but Chux, they're robot insects and so they can be any size they like! :p

would anyone care to explain the logic behind hasbro making a $14.99 BW repaint Optimus Primal and Megs and also making a $39.99 TRU Exclusive set of the same figures but in a larger scale?

JediTricks
10-26-2006, 02:44 PM
would anyone care to explain the logic behind hasbro making a $14.99 BW repaint Optimus Primal and Megs and also making a $39.99 TRU Exclusive set of the same figures but in a larger scale?The $15 BW figures are new molds meant for the Cybertron line but released first in Beast Wars 10th Anniversary packaging with a mini-comic and a mini version of each side's ship. The $40 2pack is also for the BW 10th anniversary, they're the recent Japanese versions of the original Beast Wars mega leaders which got retooled somewhat to be more show-accurate.

figrin bran
10-26-2006, 10:18 PM
are you sure about the new molds JT? b/c 10th anniversary Dinobot is, except for the colors, in every way identical to another BW Dinobot that i have. i sure wish they would've fixed up some of the kibble and made the raptor mode less "squat" (height and width not proportional) looking

kool-aid killer
10-26-2006, 11:16 PM
JT means the Optimus Primal and Megatron figures.

figrin bran
10-27-2006, 12:50 AM
d'oh! that's right! i do have the $15 megs and he is a different mold than the original BW season 1 megs.

JT is never wrong...JT is never wrong :p

JediTricks
10-27-2006, 03:52 PM
are you sure about the new molds JT? b/c 10th anniversary Dinobot is, except for the colors, in every way identical to another BW Dinobot that i have. i sure wish they would've fixed up some of the kibble and made the raptor mode less "squat" (height and width not proportional) lookingI only meant the 3rd wave BW 10th Anniversary figures, the Megatron and Optimus Primal figures which you asked about, that's why I included your quote with my reply.

Yeah, I wish they had done new molds for all 6 of the wave 1 and 2 figures instead of just repainting them, that's why I didn't buy ANY of them.

Dominic Guglieme
10-27-2006, 04:47 PM
Who cares if Lugnutz is a new character? Alternators has new characters (Richochet and Decepticharge), and characters so obscure (Rollbar, Camshaft) that they may as well be new.




To answer the question about "Stormbringer": I do not have the cover referenced in front of me. But, Bludgeon and Thunderwing both play prominent roles, with Thunderwing being presented as a "super duper cosmic bad thing". Furman seems to be assuming people know and care about his old G1 writing. (As much as I liked much of his old run, given that it has been 15 years, Furman seems to be a bit......overconfident.)



Hookay:






ich one of us refuses to buy TF:Classics for the most arbitrary of reasons? That would be you. Which one of us owns the laser cycles, every minicon motorcycle, Energon Arcee and Deluxe High Wire, Armada Sideways, Beast Machines Thrust and Motorcycle Drone, even Beast Wars Transmetal Tarantulas for his motorcycle mode, and both of the TMNT line's transforming hover-cycles? That would be me. It is not my fault that the designers put the entire rear and front end on Lugnutz's shoulders, it is not my fault the actual figure stems from the small midsection of the bike, it is not my fault the designers locked the kibble into his back with a wimpy friction bump, it is not my fault that the designers made his head pop up so he looks like a hunchback, it is not my fault that the designers gave him a trombone weapon that he can't even hold right, none of that is me being mean, that is a bad figure which you have a crush on simply because it has a decent vehicle mode.



How am I being arbitrary in skipping Classics? I am sick of dealing with Hasbro, and need a break. Thus, I am skipping the current line. Hasbro's distribution made it difficult enough that any reason to not buy TF is fine with me. Would it be better to force myself to buy the toys?

And, even if I concede the point about me being capricious......I never said I was not. O_o

And, some of those cycle TFs you mention.......those are good indicators of how you look at motorcycle TFs. Thrust and the drone are two of the few toys that I have cannibalized for parts without having spare copies on hand. Even discounting the fact that neither really looks like the animation, Thrust is a hideous toy, looking like congealed KoolAid....

And, your cruel remarks about Lugnutz's physical appearance show the depths of your cruelty. He cannot help his hunchback, nor his waist. Did noone ever tell you that the spark is what matters? Lugnutz gets up in the morning, and does his job, in the face of being physically awkward. Why can you not just respect that?

And, for the record, I display Lugnutz in robot mode.

El Chuxter
10-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Furman seems to be assuming people know and care about his old G1 writing. (As much as I liked much of his old run, given that it has been 15 years, Furman seems to be a bit......overconfident.)

While I can more or less see your point, I've got to disagree for two reasons:

1) IDW can say what they want about this being a relaunch. The fact is, most (if not all) readers would be fans of the original toyline, in their 20s or 30s (or beyond), and probably have at least the basic knowledge that these two lousy toys (basically worthless, anonymous turds) became heavy hitters, not to mention two of the deadliest Decepticon commanders, during his run.

2) The guy just seems to really, really like a handful of characters, mainly Prime, Grimlock, Starscream, Nightbeat, Bludgeon, and Thunderwing. I'd be extremely surprised if he could go ten whole issues without most of these characters showing up in some important roles. And, after reading the B&W Titan reprints of the UK backup stories, it's clear that he didn't start out with a deep love for these two Pretenders (as it seemed to American readers years ago). Both of them (and Nightbeat, too) started out as almost as pointless window dressing, like the toys.

JediTricks
10-28-2006, 10:11 PM
Who cares if Lugnutz is a new character? Alternators has new characters (Richochet and Decepticharge), and characters so obscure (Rollbar, Camshaft) that they may as well be new.Tycho cares, he's like that.


How am I being arbitrary in skipping Classics? I am sick of dealing with Hasbro, and need a break. Thus, I am skipping the current line. Hasbro's distribution made it difficult enough that any reason to not buy TF is fine with me. Would it be better to force myself to buy the toys?You're skipping it for the most arbitrary of reasons, not because the product itself isn't good but because you felt it some pieces over the past 2 years have been hard to find, because you got a few QC issues, because it's not connected directly to a TV or comic continuity, because it's not running long enough, and because you're a big baby. :p


And, some of those cycle TFs you mention.......those are good indicators of how you look at motorcycle TFs. Thrust and the drone are two of the few toys that I have cannibalized for parts without having spare copies on hand. Even discounting the fact that neither really looks like the animation, Thrust is a hideous toy, looking like congealed KoolAid....Oh man, I cannot believe you called it out because it doesn't look like the animation - the animation is based on the toy, the animation's failure is on the animator's fault, not the toy's fault. Your eyes are not open.


And, your cruel remarks about Lugnutz's physical appearance show the depths of your cruelty. He cannot help his hunchback, nor his waist. Did noone ever tell you that the spark is what matters? Lugnutz gets up in the morning, and does his job, in the face of being physically awkward. Why can you not just respect that?Um... what? He absolutely CAN help his hunckback, waist, and myrad of problems because the designers didn't have to make him suck as bad as Nightbeat the minicon. Plus, he's some goofy surfer beatnik dork Decepticon on the show, soon after he joined the cast is when I stopped watching (ok, that was merely when Cartoon Network stopped airing them, but still).


And, for the record, I display Lugnutz in robot mode.Because you have no taste. :D

Tycho
10-29-2006, 01:37 AM
Who cares if Lugnutz is a new character? Alternators has new characters (Richochet and Decepticharge), and characters so obscure (Rollbar, Camshaft) that they may as well be new.


Tycho cares, he's like that.

JT's right. I didn't buy Richochet, Decepticharge, Rollbar, or Camshaft either.

1) SideSwipe and SmokeScreen struck me with awe at how good they were. I used to buy Transformers as a kid and never missed the cartoon show or the 1986 movie. MasterPiece Prime sealed the deal! I'd buy major characters that I was a fan of - in the most realistic, detailed quality manner that Hasbro presented them in. Hence: Alternators and (some) MPEs.

2) I longed for a live action movie and held my hopes for something that would be great and bolster the Transformers brand strength for at least another generation (of fans - not Autobots, LOL) I saw the designs from Michael Bay's craptacular efforts and cringed. I was ready to put out a contract hit on him! But I've very recently gotten my hands on the script and I was floored it was such a good read. I passed it off to one of my best friends (who's a SW collecting buddy, but not really a Trans-Fan) and he loved it and read it TWICE! (ok BumbleBee rocks!!!) So I know that I want to represent the 13 Cybertronian characters from the movie in my own collection, as long as some of my traditional favorites.

3) I still think that mass-market movie toys will compromise scale, detail, and quality. I bought stock in Hasbro for this and Spider-Man's toy records they'll set (and Star Wars is still kicking butt for them), but I'm not aniticpating liking the movie toys myself (the sneak preview figures already suck - as I posted the pics in this very thread and I think you'll agree). So I want the characters best represented by Alternators and MPEs.

I need:

Prime - MPE 01

Jazz - Alternator Meister - white / silver - what's the total difference. I know a spoiler about Jazz that renders the argument moot anyway.

BumbleBee - would be sweet as a Camarro Alternator.

Ironhide - change the headsculpt on the darn Nemesis Prime Alternator already!

Ratchet - would require a whole new toy tooling, else maybe they could change and repaint Skids somehow - but I don't really care for that idea.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Megatron - a MPE is planned - hopefully it'll be his Cybertronian Jet form. He needs to be as large as MPE Prime, or larger.

StarScream - I ordered the MPE 03 from Japan to get this! He's a grey jet. An F-15 or an F-22 - big deal? I'll display him more often as a robot anyway. Furthermore - I don't care for his movie "insect look." I prefer the traditional StarScream I grew up with.

Soundwave - a movie figure of him (or Frenzy if that's the name they go with) could be great as the thing need barely be any different in size from the common Star Wars figure. I just hope the detail's good.

Scorponok - from what I understand, he is not a Transformer and he's small enough to attach to Blackout's helicopter - so perhaps he's almost as small as a real scorpion, but I picture a face-hugger size.

Brawl - repaint the Wheeljack Alternator, change the head, add police lights. Do it already.

Devastator - make a rocking MPE!

Blackout - make one of the best MPEs ever!

BoneCrusher - I don't know. Make a deluxe sized Alternator or something.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, I have other Alternators because they are cool and their characters I hope will be used in some film at some point:

SideSwipe
SmokeScreen
HOUND
Tracks
WHEELJACK
Sunstreaker
MIRAGE

And I plan to get Ravage and Rumble when they come out.

We've all heard of these guys and they had speaking (or growling) lines in the cartoons - and Ravage my not be a car, but to be Ravage, he'll always have to turn into a cat. Rumble works for what he is, as well.

So that explains what I buy and why.

I could care less about Richochet or Camshaft, even Skids (don't really like Scions anyway).

So that's that.

Tycho
10-30-2006, 08:30 PM
MASTERPIECE STARSCREAM HAS ARRIVED!!!

It's been less than 30 minutes since I got him!

My order was processed Friday, Oct. 6th according to my e-mail from Japan's HobbyLink (thanks to JediTricks for the reference) and Starscream arrived today, October 30th. (Evil has a way of showing up around Halloween).

He ships in his sleek fighter jet mode. The F-15 is so sleek and streamlined, he reminds me of a very dangerous SHARK! He's ready to prey on my Autobots - they've armed themselves and are standing poised to fire since Starscream's arrival.

Jazz and Tracks (Alternators) are in car-mode for comparison.

Unfortunately, Starscream's pilot ejection seat isn't large enough to be a baby seat on the rear couch in Jazz (Meister for people who actually forgive Hasbro for that one). Now I realize that Starscream would be at least the size of the original 1979 X-wing fighter mold, should he have been built to scale with the Alternators. More unfortunately, that would actually be possible, as that huge Cybertron Starscream that's being stocked by Toys R Us for $49 or more is about that size I think (at least the robot size is right). Still, he is awesome and so far, I am really, really, really, really, really, really, really glad I got him!

Starscream actually has sticker decales and a partially color and partially black and white book that describes how you put them on. At this juncture, I'm going to decline "decaling him." It has letters however (amongst the stickers) so if you are military and assigned to a particular squadron, you can decale Starscream to represent! That's a pretty cool afterthought.

NO I haven't transformed him yet - I wanted to post once before he breaks (just in case - there's a scary bulletin about that going around my Transformers group on MySpace).

The rear landing grear are attached to the landing gear flaps and very tiny (a real fighter jets would extend on suspensions). The front landing gear is totally authentic. The nose cone opens up and displays the radar sensor suite inside like a real fighter jet. Speaking of noses, Starscream does not smell, so I can't recommend snorting him. (Master Piece Prime's laser-axe is sharp as cheese though -even after 2 years I think. So sniff that.)

Starscream's box is flat, a lot like a model kit's would be. It says Starscream in English on it, but most of the other writing is in Japanses. Some of it reads:

#$#@#@&(@+#$@)&!!$#$#$#@!!! - or something like that. I can't translate for certain - but I think it means "The robot inside this box is really cool."

Starscream does feel kind of fragile - like a model kit would. I'm posting before I transform him because it looks daunting - also complicated. The instructions are very long and deep.

In the booklet, there is also a color photo history of every incarnation of Starscream from the first G1 figure to this one, including Cybertron, and the other lines, including some creature that must have been from BeastWars or BeastMachines. That's pretty cool!

OK, now I'm going to go transform him and I hope I will not be back here crying shortly - but instead, telling you how awesome his robot mode is.

BTW - he comes with a stand and clear supports so his fighter jet can be displayed "flying," but I'll deal with that another month or so. I'm going to robot mode!

figrin bran
10-30-2006, 10:01 PM
Starscream's box is flat, a lot like a model kit's would be. It says Starscream in English on it, but most of the other writing is in Japanses. Some of it reads:

#$#@#@&(@+#$@)&!!$#$#$#@!!! - or something like that. I can't translate for certain - but I think it means "The robot inside this box is really cool."
!

if i were japanese (which i'm not) i'd take great exception to your mockery ;)

i know it would be quite a drive for you but i'm pretty sure they sell these MPE's at the infamous Frank & Sons. i'm not sure what their prices are but at least you wouldn't have to pay shipping and you could see the toy in person. then again, it is quite a drive.


i saw alternators optimus yesterday. passed on it.

Tycho
10-30-2006, 10:57 PM
The figure is probably shipped to the Frank'n'Scalpers though, and they'll charge their customers the shipping, plus their markup.

It was $97.12 for everything and took 3 weeks to arrive. MPE Prime is about $80 in Wal-Mart and 10 minutes or less away from most of us.

All things considered, this wasn't a rough price to pay.

What was just rough was that perhaps I had too many windows open (ActionFigs, SSG, MySpace, and another MySpace page that was letting me listen to "Instruments of Destruction" over and over again (as well as "Autobot / Decepticon Battle"). My IntExp. put up a "program not responding" message right as I'd nearly finished typing 6-8 paragraphs reviewing Starscream as a robot.

I took nearly an hour, but I carefully transformed him with no damage. He's so cool! I stress that he's a model, not a toy.

Since I'm not in the mood to type more about Starscream as I had just minutes ago, I'll answer questions instead. That way you all can know what you want to know.

figrin bran
10-30-2006, 11:39 PM
The figure is probably shipped to the Frank'n'Scalpers though, and they'll charge their customers the shipping, plus their markup.

It was $97.12 for everything and took 3 weeks to arrive. MPE Prime is about $80 in Wal-Mart and 10 minutes or less away from most of us.


i got my dvd Prime from hasbrotoyshop for only $52.49 (thanks to the 25% off plus free shipping code that was posted earlier this month) :p i should be getting it any day soon now as it shipped out last week

Tycho
10-30-2006, 11:44 PM
Good deal Figrin Bran. Nice piece of shopping!

I don't know if Hasbro will ever release Starscream in the US. As he's not a toy, but more rather like a model, I think that his breaking too much of the time would be a huge customer service nightmare for them.

The alternative would be to use the molds, but stronger plastic or even metal in his construction - but I don't see that in this economy.

JediTricks
10-31-2006, 05:49 PM
Glad to hear you got your Starscream and dig him Tycho! Are you transforming him with the kibble attached to the hips (intended) or to the legs (superior)? I seen pictures that show the figure in bot mode using the flight stand that's pretty cool. I am shocked to hear they included decals, I HATE decals!

Dominic Guglieme
10-31-2006, 06:11 PM
More or less replying to JT.

I agree completely about decals. I hate them. (I leave them off mostly.)

I got a lead on the script, and will hopefully read it in the next few weeks. Oh, you better believe I will have some thing to say........


Now.......






You're skipping it for the most arbitrary of reasons, not because the product itself isn't good but because you felt it some pieces over the past 2 years have been hard to find, because you got a few QC issues, because it's not connected directly to a TV or comic continuity, because it's not running long enough, and because you're a big baby. :p



Whadyomeanbaby? I am not a baby! I will show you I am not a baby!

I just do not find lookng for scarce toys (still several waves of Minicons behind in this area), and then hoping to get a good one to be fun in the least. The lack of any actual context is a deterent, as it leaves me with only a few toys, in a line that Hasbro seems to be cutting corners on. (Minicons, those lil' recolors being examples.) Classics are likely to show up in the con comics, which are awful. (Of course, I liked RiD as a line, despite hating the cartoon.)






Oh man, I cannot believe you called it out because it doesn't look like the animation - the animation is based on the toy, the animation's failure is on the animator's fault, not the toy's fault. Your eyes are not open.



Remember, in Beast Machines, the characters were designed simultaneously for both formats, as in BW. And, I can still appreciate Tankorr as a good toy. Thrust was just awful.

And, leave Nightbeat alone. He rides the flippy bit, which is more than I can say for Thrust.

JediTricks
10-31-2006, 06:13 PM
More or less replying to JT.

I agree completely about decals. I hate them. (I leave them off mostly.)

Now.......
Uhhhh, having troubles Dom, or is this a work in progress and I should check back later? :p

Tycho
10-31-2006, 06:30 PM
There's really not that much kibble on Starscream, JT.

In my big post that I worked so hard on and lost, I'd been (in one part) explaining that I think that some of the net pictures of him were not transformed correctly. The instructions, whether Takara's in Japanese, or Hasbro's (in whatever language passes for English in Rhode Island), are never clear enough, so you have to combine their steps with some instinct of your own.

The nose of the jet really collapses flat against Starscream's back and the tailfins and tailflaps can hug Starscreams legs and "pose" with them. There's rotational and swivel-out rotation there, so you don't have to pose it looking awful. His legs (and arms) are as articulate as any Alternator or Prime. It is a great step up from the G1 Starscream that I remember - and his size, while not perfect (I'd have still liked him to be bigger) kicks the tar out of the new Classics Starscream that I've seen in stores (which is smaller than Classics Hot Rod (Hasbro translation: Rodimus - uh-huh).

I just stress that if you get him, be extremely cautious in what you move and take the time to transform him - it's not really a toy. On that matter, the quality is really a letdown after Prime.

Hasbro might decide to:

1) remake Starscream in more metal or something to avoid customer service complaints due to breakage if this is mass-marketed to kids

2) they've already said they'll repaint him the more classic white.

On Starscream's paint scheme I have this to say:

a) It's much darker than even real F-15 fighter jets I've seen. In the right lighting, he almost looks like G1 Thundercracker's blue though. If this is repainted for other Decepticon jets, as might be likely, I recommend Skywarp be done first as he'll be so black that it'll be distinctly different yet still realistic.

b) This is gun-metal. I think a realistic, traditional F-15 is darker than G1 Starscream, but actually lighter in color than this (see Go-Bot Leader-1 for example). That might look good for Starscream. This is seriously cool and safe for me and my tastes compared with the "Jazz-white" coloring that Hasbro might come out with - over decaled with bright red markings, too (see Classics Starscream in stores now and tell me if real fighter jets look like that when they are not performance planes for airshows). But I'd tell you if I was perfectly satisfied, but I'm honest and something feels a little off. This coloring is SAFE however - like I just explained. Starscream also looks like an evil Decepticon in this color versus a plane you're going to hear "We're going ballistic with Penny Benjamin, Mav!" coming out from.

I also hope, but don't count on, new headsculpts and even wing and tailfin, tailflaps sculpted for Skywarp and Thundercracker if they do them. I think they will, because they repainted MP Prime white and turqouiz and called him Ultra Magnus (crap!), so why wouldn't they do something similar for Skywarp and Thundercracker - that's the G1 tradition for the jets anyhow.

I liked how Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet had their wings and accessories altered so they'd be a little different. I think considering the price of the MasterPieces, Takara could do so and then some!

In face, the body base is good (though stronger material should be used) and with some different parts, they could use the same base form but make Skywarp a black stealth fighter for example. How cool would that be? (change the wings, the tailfins, and part of the cockpit and the jet's "back" and there you go. Oh - the head too. They could still cost cut by using the same base-body and have Skywarp etc. transform the same.

Skywarp could be a stealth fighter (black of course)
Thundercracker could be a F-18 (Blue Angel maybe)
Ramjet - hmm - maybe a new mold here - like a F-16
Thrust - the F-16 body might be convertible to a Harrier jet
Dirge - not sure what you could do with him, but maybe a repaint of Skywarp?

I don't know if they'd ever get into Cyclonus or that generation, but I'm not sure about ideas for a real jet for his alt-form. Perhaps he should always be his Cybertronian jet form? Maybe not in purple though :p

figrin bran
10-31-2006, 10:24 PM
we should play a drinking game for every time JT includes the word "kibble" in a post :p

El Chuxter
10-31-2006, 10:37 PM
For some reason, I have this mental image of Professor Farnsworth running around singing the old "Kibbles and Bits" commercial.

JediTricks
11-01-2006, 05:44 PM
Nibbler's canned food is Kibbles 'n Snouts... aww, somebody likes snouts!

Tycho
11-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Kibbles are Transformers: they go from dog food to dog poo!

They're "more than you want meeting the nose."

Tycho
11-02-2006, 12:48 AM
The word is Masterpiece MEGATRON will be MPE 05 and the traditional Walther P-38 handgun.

I wonder how this will affect ordering it in California? From a conversation with Amy from MasterReplicas, I thought I understood that prop-replica guns cannot be shipped in California - or at least not without the orange cap in the barrel (how come criminals don't just add orange caps to their real guns until it is time for them to use them?)

Anyway, if Megatron ships in robot form, will that get around this?

They say he's going to be sized equivalently with MP Prime. So that might mean he'll turn into an awefully large gun since the original G1 gun was a realistic size and G1 Megatron was skinny and not very articulate (or sturdy) as a robot.

Meanwhile, I wonder what other Masterpieces they'll make. El Chuxter has indicated that very soon, perhaps MPE 06, will come Grimlock.

However, MPE Prime has those pop-up comm screens on his wrists. One shows Starscream, whom they made a MPE for. The other shows BumbleBee. This gives me pause, as BumbleBee, MPE or not, would be no larger than an Alternator (and ought to be one - the Chevy Camarro from the movie if they can't do a VW).

This begs the question of anyone who has MPE 02, Ultra Magnus (that pathetic repaint of Prime) - who is on Magnus' comlink?

Let's assume there's one Autobot and one Decepticon.

Rodimus Prime?
Springer?

Galvatron?
Cyclonus?

Any of these would make awesome MPEs you have to admit! I even have to admit when they are not real vehicles for their Alt modes.

Anyone have the MPE Ultra Magnus out there? You'd have to have ordered it from Japan. If so I have to know who his comm units call up. It's a guess in the dark, but still a great way to waste some time...

Tycho
11-02-2006, 11:08 AM
See my above post about Megatron.

This is what I want for a MPE Skywarp - the F-117 Nighthawk -

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117.htm

It'd make a sweet Transformer! Screw repaints. I like new sculpts!

Want a repaint? Convert Starscream's F-15 to an F-18 Hornet, decorate it like a Blue Angel (if they'll allow that for an evil Decepticon) and call him Thundercracker. Then at least the D-jets will be all slightly different instead of repainted F-15's one and all. I can break with tradition there - they'll still be fighter jets. It's not like turning the Dinobots into muscle cars!

El Chuxter
11-02-2006, 11:14 AM
I wish I had indicated there'd be a MPE Grimlock. I just reported reading on another site that the Hasbro reps said on a panel that they'd like to do Grimlock. (Of course, everyone except Tycho, CaptainSolo1138, and Rocketboy loves Grimlock, so it's reasonable to guess the designers at Takara think the same way.)

Since Prime was repainted as Ultra Magnus, it seems logical that we'll see at least one of the other jets in the near future.

Rodimus and Galvatron would both be killer choices for future MPEs, as would Scourge and Cyclonus. At first, Shockwave and Jetfire seem obvious, but they were pretty above and beyond the quality level of most early Transformers, so I wouldn't mind waiting.

Omega Supreme and Devastator would be way too big.

Call me crazy, but I'd like to see MPE Thunderwing. The original figure sucked pretty hard.

Tycho
11-02-2006, 11:56 AM
I actually like Grimlock and think he's cute in his own way, but in the hard-core realistic version of Transformers that I'd embrace (as long as it doesn't stray too far from G1), I don't really see a place for Dinobots (or massive size changes into Walkmans and handguns) unless Michael Bay can convince me otherwise. The G1 reason for Dinobots (Wheeljack's inventiveness) would be cool to see realized in live-action somehow -but very tricky to do realistically. We'll see where the movie franchise takes it.

I would've not bought Transformers at all and just appreciated it from afar, like Scooby-Doo or something, had it not been for the attraction Alternators had for me (and MPE Optimus Prime). Thus a very specific taste was cultivated in me in as far as Transformers are regarded. I've gone with that as I've picked and chosen what I purchased and would be a fan of.

So nothing against Grimlock. And he means more to me than Scooby-Doo, but compared with Optimus Prime - not a lot more.

JediTricks
11-02-2006, 04:31 PM
The law on replica weapons in CA is that they must have a permanently-affixed "blaze orange" plug in the barrel no further than 1/4" beneath the opening.

Takara supposedly is going to make Megatron an oversized Walther though, a cannon too big to be believable as a handgun, which could be cool, but I bet Hasbro still won't release it here.

Tycho
11-02-2006, 05:05 PM
Will Takara still be able to ship it to me (in California) from Japan?

Or will one of "Arnold's men" stop me from having my package get through customs because they think I'm Osama Bin Decepticon?

BTW - I may or may not order Megatron anyway. While the handgun is traditional, I've grown to like the idea of a Cybertronian Jet or a huge Abrahms tank - something that still converts to his general G1 appearance as a robot (without Michael Bay's idea for a face on him).

Oh, like I said before - if I were a gang-banger or bank robber, whatever, I'd stick an orange cap in the end of my gun to pass it off as a toy until I needed to use it. If I was really wealthy, I'd have something that looks like a Nerf gun or squirt pistol modified so it fired real lethal shots as well. And if I was wealthier than that, I'd be really bad with a handgun that squirted water as well as shot bullets, and I'd just fake it being a toy when I needed to. As I understand it though, you are robbing a bank even if you threaten the teller with a real squirt pistol. Proceedure is to give you the money (with an exploding ink bag probably) and if you squirt anyone, it counts as assault.

However, I'm not sure if a cop would be cleared on a shooting if he blew away someone aiming a Nerf pistol at him. On the law enforcement end, I'd want the answer to be yes. There's no reason to point ANYTHING at a police officer doing their duty - that includes real squirt pistols, super-soakers, and Nerf guns. If they're wearing a police uniform, you respect that. If they're wearing a swimsuit - you super-soak them (Bay Watch Patrol being the exception).

plasticfetish
11-03-2006, 12:03 AM
On the odd chance that anyone's interested, I'm just about to transition from Microman into something that "transforms" with my YouTube Takara Toy commercial uploads. Here's where I'm at so far...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om4ShNsA3PY

:)

figrin bran
11-03-2006, 12:39 AM
For us poor folks, Titanium Soundwave and Rodimus Prime are coming

Tycho
11-03-2006, 01:10 AM
A new Transformer in action:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1719034

Tycho
11-03-2006, 02:17 PM
My Comic Book Store had Masterpiece Starscream for $109 (I paid $97.12 including everything, shipped from Japan).

The girl working there told me that they've been selling well - MP Starscreams and it has been rather popular.

They also had MP Prime with the trailer. I asked about whether they sold the trailer kit separately and she said she'd look into that. I'm not sure I want the trailer yet though. I've kind of gotten used to him without it.

Tycho
11-03-2006, 06:09 PM
One Retailer Already Not Carrying Masterpiece Megatron!

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=114421

I couldn't find out where BigBadToyStore was located, but my guess would be in California.

As I asked before - does boxing him in robot form get around the gun law? And if they have to, could putting an orange cap in his barrel work around this issue, or will Takara rather surrender the market. Isn't California (by itself) the 10th largest economy in the world? Seems a stupid idea since if China or somewhere else outranks CA, its citizens as a whole are less likely to be spending their money on Transformers (though the nation does have a life-sizes statue of Optimus Prime, so I could be wrong).

OK, the issues here are:

1) kids not getting shot by cops for weilding Megatron.

2) Megatron, to be large enough to face off with MPE 01 / 04 Prime, becoming a very over-sized (KingKong's) Walther P-38, and thus not being realistic at all in that sense.

3) Can they put an orange cap in it and resolve this before it starts?

4) Other toy / replica guns NOT being able to be transformed into a robot for shipping - so Megatron could be the exception to the rule.

But this is pretty real and not one of Tycho's "let's drudge out a controversy" thread topics - though I have one in "should cross-dressers who are into beastiality be allowed to purchase Transformers?" I was in line behind a man in a dress with a live goat on a rope at Toys R Us the other day. He was buying the Titanium figures. I think he misunderstood that they didn't mean "those kinds of kids" with the Toys For Tots drive.

Chaddymac
11-03-2006, 08:09 PM
BBTS is located in Indiana, or Wisconson, or something.

figrin bran
11-03-2006, 09:37 PM
i bought the World's Smallest TF's Megatron i think last year but i guess since it's so small, it doesn't fall within those prop replica gun laws?

plasticfetish
11-03-2006, 09:59 PM
OK, this one's for Tycho. It's an ad for the very first Takara transforming gun toy from 1983, and it's still part of the Microman line at this point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXjtvYwqRzY

BTW, and I'm sure that most of you know this, but the Japanese versions of these "Micro Change" gun toys also had little plastic bullets that really fired. :D

Tycho
11-03-2006, 11:56 PM
Thanks PF. That ad was fun.

I'm still concerned with how US and especially CA residents are going to get Megatron. If BBTC is in Indiana or somewhere else, and they won't import it, might as well forget about being able to have it shipped to California. CA has the strictist gun laws of all 50 states.

plasticfetish
11-04-2006, 01:52 AM
Well, like I mentioned over at af.com (http://www.actionfigs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2997&postcount=2), it doesn't have anything to do with CA, it's a US Customs issue.

You never know though. Where there's a will there's a way... you may find someone that's willing to sneak them into the country.

Tycho
11-04-2006, 01:59 AM
Help me Osama Bin Decepticon - you're my only hope :rolleyes:

I wonder if we'll be able to paint the orange tip? It may not take paint (some plastic is repellant).

How are paintball guns sold anyway? If you wanted to hurt someone with a paintball gun, you could (shoot them in the eye especially).

plasticfetish
11-04-2006, 03:19 AM
It's not a "hurt" issue, it's to do with kids not having realistic looking toy guns that'll get them killed by trigger happy cops. I'd bet that paintball guns, BB guns, etc. don't count as toys. (But I'm only guessing.)

Tycho
11-04-2006, 11:32 AM
I wonder if Megatron could be considered "not a toy" as he's a high-end "collectible?"

For that matter, the same could be said of Master Replicas prop guns.

Paintball guns and BB guns fall into the hands of kids all the time - that's a major market for that kind of product. Cops certainly would shoot children wielding those.

I'm not arguing with YOU PlasticFetish. I'm just aggravated. That's all. I may be liberal in many respects, but I'm very pro-2nd Ammendment in spite of Amish Schools and Columbine, etc.

plasticfetish
11-04-2006, 04:10 PM
I know you're not arguing with me... and honestly, I think the whole thing is a bit lame really, because the police still manage to shoot the ocassional kid inspite of the safetly laws. (It's not a 2nd amendment issue at all. Has nothing to do with the right to bear arms... lets not wander down that road.) I'd imagine things would be much worse though, if there weren't at least some kind of standards.

JediTricks
11-04-2006, 07:22 PM
Will Takara still be able to ship it to me (in California) from Japan?

Or will one of "Arnold's men" stop me from having my package get through customs because they think I'm Osama Bin Decepticon?If it has an orange plug or an orange muzzle, it'll be legal to ship it here. If it doesn't, it could be tricky depending on how oversized it is.


Oh, like I said before - if I were a gang-banger or bank robber, whatever, I'd stick an orange cap in the end of my gun to pass it off as a toy until I needed to use it.Cops generally don't seem to care when it's an adult holding a realistic toy gun, the worry is that someone already did that, they shot a guy to death in his own home for brandishing a toy gun during his halloween party a couple years ago.



As I understand it though, you are robbing a bank even if you threaten the teller with a real squirt pistol. Proceedure is to give you the money (with an exploding ink bag probably) and if you squirt anyone, it counts as assault.You don't have to even have a gun, just suggesting you do is bad enough to get the book thrown at you.


However, I'm not sure if a cop would be cleared on a shooting if he blew away someone aiming a Nerf pistol at him.They have been pretty much every time. Of course, shooting little kids and unarmed adults does take its toll on all but the most hard-heartened police officers.


There's no reason to point ANYTHING at a police officer doing their duty - that includes real squirt pistols, super-soakers, and Nerf guns. If they're wearing a police uniform, you respect that. If they're wearing a swimsuit - you super-soak them (Bay Watch Patrol being the exception).The guy shot in his own home saw them at his window during the party and thought they were in halloween costumes.


Thanks for the link PF, not their finest work as a transforming bot or a commercial. ;) (the first one, not the gun robo)



As I asked before - does boxing him in robot form get around the gun law?Not technically, but as a single-import item it could possibly get away with it.


And if they have to, could putting an orange cap in his barrel work around this issue, or will Takara rather surrender the market.If the blaze-orange plug is permanently affixed, it'd be legal here.


Isn't California (by itself) the 10th largest economy in the world?I've heard estimates as high as fifth, but the most current ones say eighth.


Seems a stupid idea since if China or somewhere else outranks CA, its citizens as a whole are less likely to be spending their money on Transformers (though the nation does have a life-sizes statue of Optimus Prime, so I could be wrong).It's marketed specifically to Japan.


1) kids not getting shot by cops for weilding Megatron.Kids have been shot for wielding toy guns at cops many times, even fairly recently, even with all the new laws.



i bought the World's Smallest TF's Megatron i think last year but i guess since it's so small, it doesn't fall within those prop replica gun laws?Of course, it's small enough to be a GI Joe weapon, not believable as a full-sized replica handgun, not even a derringer.


PF, cool beans on the Microman Gun Robo commercial, awful music but cool commercial and a great toy. I wonder why they didn't show it firing its plastic bullets, all 4 of the Gun Robo figures did. That Browning is my favorite one of the Gun Robo, the Magnum was pretty good too, the Walther was their worst-looking bot but had the Man from UNCLE accessories so he got turned into Megatron.



Well, like I mentioned over at af.com (http://www.actionfigs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2997&postcount=2), it doesn't have anything to do with CA, it's a US Customs issue.

You never know though. Where there's a will there's a way... you may find someone that's willing to sneak them into the country.That post deals with weapon replicas, if US customs or the state of CA determine that MP Megatron is a "toy" (which they likely will) then more regs come into play. Importing MP Megs won't be a problem, but Hasbro will be unlikely to marketing it here.

El Chuxter
11-04-2006, 10:36 PM
So to go in the opposite direction with this, what's to stop some psycho from putting some orange tape on a gun and then mowing down a lot of people?

Tycho
11-05-2006, 12:29 AM
So to go in the opposite direction with this, what's to stop some psycho from putting some orange tape on a gun and then mowing down a lot of people?


Cops generally don't seem to care when it's an adult holding a realistic toy gun, the worry is that someone already did that, they shot a guy to death in his own home for brandishing a toy gun during his halloween party a couple years ago

Read all the lines Chux. JT had a nice and very thorough response.

Tycho
11-08-2006, 06:48 PM
Thought you guys would like this video of Devastator in action (the Constructicons, not the tank from the new movie).

http://www.larsmartinsen.com/3d/3d_dev_movie.swf

figrin bran
11-08-2006, 10:08 PM
i got my DVD Prime from HTS yesterday and i love it! i can see why Tycho gets so hyped about the MPE's!

btw, how do i know that link of devastator isn't some ploy to get us to see footage from the movie? :p

Chaddymac
11-09-2006, 02:09 PM
I just got my MP 04 Prime (w/ Trailer). It was way overpriced, considering I had to buy the guy all over again just to get the trailer, but MAN it looks awesome with the trailer too. I'm a fool, but I'm glad I bought it.

Also, has anyone mentioned that in the MP-04 release they changed the stickers for the screens on his wrist com? instead of Starscream and Bumblebee, it's Megatron and Grimlock. I thought that was cool.

As far as this Megatron import thing, I imported the re-release of Gun Megatron a couple of years ago and everyone said they were afraid of import issues and this was after 9/11, but I didn't have a problem at all. That said, no one's actually SEEN the toy yet, so the speculation is pointless. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if BBTS changes their position in the future - they would need to see it first anyway.

Tycho
11-09-2006, 03:21 PM
I just got my MP 04 Prime (w/ Trailer). It was way overpriced, considering I had to buy the guy all over again just to get the trailer, but MAN it looks awesome with the trailer too. I'm a fool, but I'm glad I bought it.

I think some eBay sellers have the trailer and the MP 04 box without Prime for folks that want to complete their MP 01's only. I've been debating getting that. This kit goes for nearly $80 anyway. I'm just not apt to display him in truck mode that often, so I ask myself if it would really be worth it to me?


Also, has anyone mentioned that in the MP-04 release they changed the stickers for the screens on his wrist com? instead of Starscream and Bumblebee, it's Megatron and Grimlock. I thought that was cool.

That's because the rumor is that MP 05 is Megatron and MP 06 is Grimlock. I don't know if we'll see an American release of MP 03 (Starscream - he's very fragile) but BumbleBee would really not make a good MP choice. He'd be best as a 2007 Camarro Alternator (as Volkswagon is out of the question for licensing reasons).


As far as this Megatron import thing, I imported the re-release of Gun Megatron a couple of years ago and everyone said they were afraid of import issues and this was after 9/11, but I didn't have a problem at all.

That's very good news to hear!

JediTricks
11-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Thought you guys would like this video of Devastator in action (the Constructicons, not the tank from the new movie).There is nobody in the new movie named "Devastator", they are as follows: Megatron, Starscream, Blackout, Barricade, Brawl, Bonecrusher, Scorponok, and Frenzy.


Chaddy, congrats on the Prime w/ trailer, but give more details, and how much did it cost?

Tycho
11-09-2006, 04:24 PM
There is nobody in the new movie named "Devastator", they are as follows: Megatron, Starscream, Blackout, Barricade, Brawl, Bonecrusher, Scorponok, and Frenzy.


That's good to hear. I hope it's true!

Dominic Guglieme
11-10-2006, 11:32 AM
JT's post confirms that the script I read is a fake, as it has a character named Devastator. JT, what is your source for there being no Devastator?

Tycho
11-10-2006, 12:54 PM
The name changes don't confirm anything actually. It may or may not be a fake. But it could be the real thing, pre-name changes.

I'm writing a novel now that I had a great idea for but a very difficult time naming my characters for. Instead of wasting time not outlining a great story, I decided to just write it with "Tom, Dick, and Sally, etc." and then let the events in the story unfold to name my characters later on. At that point, I'll go in and edit all the name changes. MS Word has a search program I can use to get them all before I submit the manuscript. A draft script of something such as Transformers would likely have Optimus Prime in it anyway, but most of the Decepticons in the story are non-consequential (save for Megatron and Starscream) and thus if their names get changed, it really doesn't matter. A patrol car is Barricade or Brawl for exampe. Well, sure Brawl was the Combaticon tank in G1, and there is a tank in 2007, but at the end of the movie, it won't matter what his name is. Furthermore, there's never been a Decepticon patrol car in G1 so far as I recall - so that doesn't matter either. Finally, in the G1 cartoon, Brawl (the tank) was never a primed character. Swindle got the most personality written for him amongst the Combaticons.

But all this doesn't really matter in determining whether or not we have the real script. The Autobots are a lock, but the Decepticons can be easily changed.

Dominic Guglieme
11-10-2006, 05:09 PM
The Autobot names can change just as easily. Aside from Optimus, and maybe Bumblebee, the names are not even idiomatic re-uses. They are the same characters as much as any name re-use (Shockwave or Tankor being used on Minicons for example) is. Jazz could be Sideswipe or Wheeljack for all anyone cares. Starscream is only Starscream because the name says so. There is no character based reason.


I read a document purporting to be the script. My guess is that it was a fake, written by someone very clever, very creative, and possessed of a devilishly funny sense of humor.


At least, it damned well better be a fake written for the sake of a joke. .

JediTricks
11-10-2006, 05:20 PM
That's good to hear. I hope it's true!

JT's post confirms that the script I read is a fake, as it has a character named Devastator. JT, what is your source for there being no Devastator?From screenwriters Alex Kurtzman's and Roberto Orci's Q&A: http://tformers.com/TF-Screenwriters-QA-Post-Mortem/6427/news.html

The original source material: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html

It's still possible the script you guys have is not fake, and they were using names that were changed, since Soundwave was confirmed to be changed to Frenzy and Blackout was originally Incinerator.

I suspect the script out there is fake though, there would be more chatter if it were not, and it's pretty early to have their movie revealed publically - against their will or not, they'd be freaking.

El Chuxter
11-10-2006, 05:50 PM
I got a copy of a script, too, and it's different from everything you guys have said. This one takes place a couple of years ago, and a lot of core G1 characters die: Wheeljack, Windcharger, Ironhide, Ratchet, Skywarp, Starscream, even Optimus Prime! There are a lot of new characters introduced, and it's almost as if they're trying to replace the original characters. Apparently Unicron is the main villain, and there's even a scene where he rebuilds Megatron into something called Galvanizatron (I think) after Megatron kills Prime on Earth. And there's this whole scene on a planet of junk, and the leader of the junk creatures learned English from Earth TV! It sounds pretty cool, though I imagine a lot of people might get p***ed when Prime dies.

JediTricks
11-12-2006, 06:36 PM
Picked up the TF:CY Shadow Recon Minicon Team at WM last night, it was the only new item there so I got stuck with questionable paint on Reverb. Still, I like clear figures most of the time - I think the light blue on Reverb would have looked better on Six Speed though, it looks more "clear" and would have accented Six Speed's design better, and the dark blue would have hidden some of Reverb's issues better. Both cars have clear gray wheels, this is a massive improvement over the weird solid gray-green of the first set. Reverb's black face looks better than the silver on the previous version. Six Speed's torso doesn't give me trouble this time around, that's good. Jolt is the loser of the bunch yet again, the least amount of clear plastic, and the dark blue with black is pretty dark yet you can still see how hollow he is, and it also loses his detailing - you can't even make out his head at all now, just his silver face. Nobody gets much paint, that's ok for the most part, but the windshield on Reverb is thicker copper paint on one side from the other; also, I wish they had painted Jolt's eyes something other than the silver on the rest of the face, it makes him seem like he has no eyes; and while Six Speed's head looks way better with just an eyeslit paint job, they didn't bother painting the fronts of his fists, just the tops. Strangely, the card top has a Giant Planet logo on it even though they're not from there, maybe it's because they're minicons. Anyway, the set is alright, I like the molds (although Jolt I'd only buy if he came with another figure), and I like translucent, I wish they hadn't just taken away paint apps, but mostly I like this set. Grade: B

Dominic Guglieme
11-13-2006, 08:01 PM
It's still possible the script you guys have is not fake, and they were using names that were changed,

No! No! You are lying! The script is a fake!


On another note, I recently secured an Shadow Team, and Hightail. Aside from the odd exclusive, I am done with Cybertron. :yes:

figrin bran
11-13-2006, 11:21 PM
i did my part in helping to clear out Cybertron pegwarmers by picking up an Optimus Primal. the colors aren't that great but i never owned a single Primal from the Beast Wars line and so i figured for $8 why not?

Rodimus seems to be the most popular seller among classics deluxe while Optimus and Megatron voyager class don't seem to stay on the shelves for very long.

Chaddymac
11-14-2006, 12:28 PM
There is nobody in the new movie named "Devastator", they are as follows: Megatron, Starscream, Blackout, Barricade, Brawl, Bonecrusher, Scorponok, and Frenzy.


Chaddy, congrats on the Prime w/ trailer, but give more details, and how much did it cost?
I think all told I paid $180 for the whole set, including shipping, from BBTS. "Love that Pile of Loot".

Anyhow, it's neat because the ramp is there, but rather than be part of the back like the original, it has the double doors and the ramp is inside. the weapons have their own storage place in the trailer, but it's rather loose and they come out all the time. The feet on which the trailer halves rest on extend out so that they don't drag on the floor during truck mode. Honestly, it's just so much a part of what makes Optimus Prime who he is, I don't care if it doesn't have blinking lights. It's Prime...

Tycho
11-14-2006, 12:35 PM
Great post Chaddymac. It's making me strongly consider those trailer-only sets on eBay.

Chaddymac
11-14-2006, 03:12 PM
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10668&mode=retail

El Chuxter
11-14-2006, 03:23 PM
Interesting. Unfortunate, but interesting. I know I saw a few of the Takara reissue Megatrons at various mall stores (the ones that specialize in anime merchandise) that didn't appear to be modified. Wonder how they got around it?

Tycho
11-14-2006, 04:00 PM
I think BBTS is covering their own butts on this one, since they are a retailer and would have to eat it should customs seize their orders.

If they can order it directly from Takara, or another Japanese outlet, (like I ordered MP03 Starscream) so can you I bet. Maybe you should be willing to lose $100, but BBTS can't take that gamble with 20 or more orders ($2,000+)

I will wait and see how the pictures of this turn out. On one hand I like traditional Megatron, on the other hand, displaying a gun that's larger than a semi-truck is ridculous, and I'd actually prefer a fighter jet from the movie, or a tank, etc. - just something that turns into a 12" figure.

Dominic Guglieme
11-14-2006, 08:03 PM
As some of you know, I recently came across a document that some think is a draft of the upcoming Transformers movie. My source, (bwtf's Onslaught 86), is pretty confident that this thing is legit. I disagree, on the basis that this script is so mind-blowingly bad that I doubt there is any way any script this bad could get "green-lighted" at any stage.

Besides a plot that is vapid, contrived, and pretty much everything people deride in summer 'tard-fodder, the script is loaded with childish turns of phrase to fully emphasis the bad writing. The bad writing is nothing of not masterfully done. There are points when I half-expected to be reading "!33+ $p33k" ("leet speak" or "internet gibberslang").
Honestly, one would have to try to write this badly. So, here are some examples of why I think this script is a fake (albeit a very funny one). (And, if I am wrong, well, I damned well better not be wrong.)
Some people argue that the script in question is consistent with most of the leaked information about hte movie. But, that really does not mean anything. If the information was leaked, that means pretty much everyone has it, and could cobble together a faux script.

*******possible spoiler alert**********************
While I do not think I am talking about an actual script, some peiople may disagree. If you do not like spoilers, and are extremely paranoid, stop reading now. I will talk about some parts of the script in detail, and if this is in fact a legitimate script, there will be spoilers.
If you do not like spoilers, and are paranoid that I have an actual script, stop now.
************************************************** *88




By the second page, there are signs that this script is of dubious origins! Namely, the writer uses an exclamation point ("!") in a descriptive passage. Anybody who has made it through an undergraduate English composition class knows that ye olde exlamation point is to be avoided, especially in descriptive writing. There are, or course, limited allowances made for dialogue, or humor! But, generally, they should be avoided. And, one might hope, no matter how nail-bitingly exciting a scene may be, a *professional* script writer would be able to avoid such a mistake! Exclamations are such a staple in the descriptive parts of this script that I will not even bother noting all of the incidences.

On page 8, there is an interesting bit of explication that looks like it was taken from a pulp novel. Bear in mind, this is a movie script, the prose is not inteneded for general consumption, and is intended to guide cast and crew more than to convey a narrative unto itself. Writing "And the damndest thing happens..." is not just childish (as the use of exclamation points it), it is contrary to the very form the writing should be taking. Even at the earliest draft stage, it is unlikely that such wording would appear in a legitimate script. Oh, and there are more exclamation points here as well!
The classroom sequence, starting around page 10 or so, has every hack element one could hope to avoid, mixed in with foreshadowing so heavy that calling it contrived would be charitable.
Bumblebee's introduction (starting around page 14) is either a perfect example of bad writing, or a hilarious send-up of bad writing. Besides a sequence of events that makes some of the more gratuitous elements in "Van Helsing" look intelligently written, the descriptive lines include the phrase "a Pep Boy's ten dollar attempt to look cool" when describing Bumblebee's paint job. I had no idea script writing was so ghetto.
But, wait, there is more! We are only barely over 10% through this 112 page abomination! (There are no exclamation points here, but, there are more later.)

Of course, referencing Pep Boys, talking about how the "damndest things" happen, and using exclamation points in description does not quite hold a candle to asking a question in description, as happens on page 17. Yup, a scene describing a character being ushered into the Pentagon has the oh so helpful phrase "What is she doing here?" to remind the cast and crew that this is big, mysterious stuff we are dealing with.
Oh, and this character being given super-duper secret clearance is revealed to have "impulse control" issues on page 18. Um, yeah. Get it? This is an excuse for here to say conveniently stupid things. And, there is a helpful, and redundant question here as well. Right after introducing a Secretary of Defense character, the description helpfully tells the reader the following: "Maggie is now totally thrown: the Sec Def wants to talk to her?"
(I swear to you, I am not making any of this up. But, whoever did is clearly an inspired satirist.)

On page 28, like oh my god, the script writer like totally decides to go for the whole like totally
"angsty teenager" style, in, like, the descriptive parts of the page. Like, when Spike is doing good with the girl, the script says, that she like, "gives him the best smile ever." Like, the best smile *ever*, like that is so kewl, right?
On page 29, the script writer is back in there normal form. During a sequence when a boombox turns into a sneaky robot, the script helpfully tells us that "this thing is creepy", just so everyone gets the idea. Wow. Maybe they should have emphasized the point with exclamation points huh?
Page 30: Well darn! There's an exclamation point! Phew, I thought we were not gonna see any more of those.
On page 37, after several more appearances by the exclamation point fairy, the script gets complicated again. While a burrowing Transformer bumps into a rooted telephone pole, the script poses the key question (as part of the description), "HOW DID THAT FALL?" Truly the key question of the scene. Oh, and do not worry, if you get distracted by the deep question, there are plenty of exclamation points to draw you back in and remind you what is important!
On page 39, we learn that it is possible to make collect calls to the Pentagon's emergency line from an unknown cell-phone in the Gulf.
Following what the script calls (in one complete unto itself sentence) "An eye-searing explosion!", we discover that hight temperature ammunition is like kryptonite to transformers. (This is important. Remember it. I am totally serious here.) (page 41)

On page 43, we are treated to the antics of a gratuitously flatulent mastiff. (And, this does not even begin to hint at Bumblebee's antics later on.)
By page 50, the script writer has to find a new way to tell readers when something important happens. MULTIPLE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!! Yup.
Things get considerably more prosiac by page 54. When Bumblebee takes a new form, the script writer limits themselves to one exclamation point, and is able to convey the full import of the scene in a single word sentence. "*****in."

Okay, remember how I told you that the hot ammunition was important on page 41? Pay dirt. Here on page 57, we are treated to Tranformers landing, from orbit, as their own atmospheric entry vehicles. Miraculously, these same robots who have a demonstrable weakness when dealing with hot bullets safely land from orbit, none the worse for wear. It is a good thing at least one of them managed to land in a back-yard pool, because that would cool him off.





continued on next page

Dominic Guglieme
11-14-2006, 08:04 PM
Fans worried that the movie would not treat the Transformers with the respect they deserve need not worry. Page 58's description of Optimus Prime transforming shoudl put any worries on that front to bed. "...as the truck TRANSFORMS into...oh yes, Optimus Prime." Wow, a dramatic pause in the description. Heavy stuff indeed. And, we get a nice liguistic non-sequitor in the form of the phrase "robotit organisms".
The script writer also shows great empathy for the Transformers. On page 60, Optimus Prime is described as aswering a question about his origin with "a heavy heart", and we go from there into a truly awful flashback sequence.
Page 62: Exclamation points, never out of style!
Another that I credit the script writer with is staying objective, even during the most emotional scenes. When "Fig", dies a predictable action movie death, the script tells the reader (after a drawn out scene), "That's how he dies." Page 63 is where you will find that bit of poetry.
On page 75 or so, the secret origin of Mikaela is just too supid for words. It ignores a few commonly known and understood elements of statutrory law.
On page 75, Bumblebee skeets a big, steaming, oily load onto a group of government agents. Yes, You read that right. Bumblebee skeets a big, steaming, oily load onto a group of government agents. And, there is no exclamation point. Apparently, the script writer sees nothing exciting or unusual about his.
In a script like this, it is tough to pick a favorite page. No doubt about it though, page 80 is in the running. THE WRITER MANAGES TO DEMONSTRATE ALL OF HIS FINE SKILL WITH USING EXCLAMATION POINTS IN VARYING NUMBERS, MANY TIMES PER PAGE HERE!!!!! Of course, in his (quite understandable) excitement, he does hit "caps lock" a few times. And then, there is a truly emotional scene. Bumblebee is captured by the more government agents (including one who was skeeted only monents before). This scene is truly "hopeless, heart breaking", as evidenced by the fact that the scene is described as such. At this point, more relfective members of the audience may want to pull themselves back from the drama and ponder one of the most challenging questions posed by the film. If the Transformers travel through the cold depths of space space, and negotiate planet-fall as their own entry vehicles, just why are they so bothered by the relatively mild temperatures of hot-rounds and liquide nitrogen?




There is plenty more to (and wrong with) the script.

Dom
-thinking it would be really funny if the script were real, and the writer saw this review.

Tycho
11-15-2006, 12:07 AM
Dom,

I read this script and discuss it in the movies-other-forum, all in color=foeded text. You highlight it to read it.

I liked the story myself. As it's just a movie, your criticism may very well be great (as to pointing out the inconsistencies) but it still might be the legitimate film.

Transformers might be invulnerable to the temperature changes when they have converted to space-flight, atmospheric entry form, but when they're robotic, their parts are exposed more and they could be more vulnerable. In any event, the writer needs some plot device to make the military in the story not totally ineffective, else it would be "as disrespectful as if John Kerry wrote the picture." ;)

The document might be the actual plot yet, but not the actual script - as it could have been re-written by a fan who works on the production and modified to suit his particular taste - and the fact that it would not have been distributed or even leaked in electronic form - for the very reason that it would end up on the internet in a matter of seconds! < look - an exclamation point!

Remember, this is kind of still a kids' movie (kind of) and the children won't over-analyze it as much as we will.

I'm not sure you know this, but if you get bitten by a radio-active spider, the chances that you'll mutate overnight and be able to spin webs in the morning are pretty slim, to next to impossible. But I just thought I'd check if we all were aware of that. ;)

Oh, and "!!!!" - :D

Dominic Guglieme
11-15-2006, 01:42 PM
I have a hard time believing that a professional writer would use exclamation points even a 10th of the times that they showed up in this script. That, on top of a plot that reads like it was written by a child (complete with every bit of 'tard fodder that justifies the derision people regard summer movies with), and the use of breathlessly fannish terms like "oh yes, Optimus Prime", in lines meant to direct cast and crew make me wonder how legit this script it.


There is a credible case for it being reald. But, I say that it may also be fake.

The temperature problem is not wholly outisde the realm of mistakes we normally get in such movies. But, that does not make it any more forgivable. It is less forgivable than the magic spider bite because in this case, the psuedo-science is not even applied consistently in the same story.


If the actual movie is in any way derived from this script, I will say now that JT is right in his doom-saying.

JediTricks
11-15-2006, 04:37 PM
Dom, glad to hear you got your CY basics already, I spotted more sets last night but didn't have the funds to get them for you, now I don't feel so bad. What are your first impressions of both sets? I didn't buy Hightail but did give a good in-package look yesterday, the deco doesn't work as well as Roadnutz's in alt mode and feels very samey in bot mode, but it may be otherwise in person. I already professed my appreciation for the shadow boys.


Figgy, you buy Primal from TRU? If you get a chance, pick up Beast Megatron, he's a better figure and at $8 you can't go wrong.

Yeah, Roddy is selling VERY well around here, I'm now seeing everybody else from wave 1 but him regularly (still more Astrotrains than anything else though). Supposedly Mirage and Grimlock are in our area Targets already, I am so wanting those!


Thanks for the 411 Chaddy, sounds pretty cool. It's pricey but you do get an awesome MP Prime as well so it's not as outrageous in some ways, well outside of my means though. Hasbro should offer the trailer as a mail-away item.


I'm not that surprised BBTS is going to do the blaze-orange thing, it's smart, it'll make them a major importer for the item. I'm very likely to get it from them now.


Dom, that's a wild script review, as low as my opinion for the writers on the movie are, they are professional screenwriters so I really doubt now that it's the real mccoy, all the stuff you've mentioned could have been gleaned from leaked news by someone wanting to write a fake script that sounded real. The worst part though is that we can't totally be sure it's not real. :p

El Chuxter
11-15-2006, 04:54 PM
Supposedly Mirage and Grimlock are in our area Targets already, I am so wanting those!

Off to Target I go! I want one of those more than any other "Classic" figure. Guess which one. Hint: he isn't blue.

Tycho
11-15-2006, 05:06 PM
The movie discussion has really piled on over in this thread as well. OK Then.

There are more Transformers fans participating here anyway than in the movie-other forum.

So I'll post the news here:

Shia LaBeouf (Spike Whitwicky) has been interviewed saying he's totally doing Transformers for the career boost and the money, and otherwise hates it and doesn't care too much for Michael Bay.

Read all about it here:

http://movies.about.com/od/bobby/a/bobbysl111006_4.htm

This guy is actually upset while he's co-starring with Megan Fox?

But he says Transformers will be his "Lord of the Rings." So we can therefore infer that it might still be a good flick, but Shia doesn't sound like he's down for a lot of the stunt work, etc. I know from another video or interview that I saw with Michael Bay, that Shia was very frightened in the scene where Barricade tortures him just before BumbleBee's rescue. They used some kind of hydraulic press or forklift machine to slam down just inches from LaBeouf and then they use TNT to blow up a car seconds after he dives off of it. I posted the video in the movie thread, or on MySpace or somewhere. I can't remember. In any case, Harrison Ford would never whine about such a scene - he'd just do it. Shai sounds like he prefers artsy movies.

Personally, I think you can like both - and the best is when a good script has elements of each in them - great expository writing scenes, as well as things exploding and a car chase or two.

Imagine if Bruce Willis took a moment in Die Hard to explain corporate finance ethics to Hans in a ground-breaking performance that would have illuminated everything we wanted to say about the Enron scandal - and then he blew up the building?

Or Uncle Owen had a moment explaining how Palpatine's taxes impacted him and Luke and their family on the farm. (It was sort of done in the cut Biggs scenes on Tatooine though).

But Michael Bay has a real winner on his hands because of the kid audience, no matter what we as fans say, or even what Shia as one of his actors, says. BTW, I have not read anywhere that Shia was a Transformer fan when he was a kid. I believe him when he says he's just trying to hope for a career like Elijah Wood. Funny how Wood can make a career from LOTR but Hayden - I'm just not so sure about.

JediTricks
11-15-2006, 05:21 PM
This guy is actually upset while he's co-starring with Megan Fox?She's not exactly an actor's actor, she's not even that hot, just a generic hollywood beauty - there are tons of them out there. Shia cares about his craft and the business of it, standing next to Megan Fox all day is probably about as high on his list of things he wants to do as the laundry.


But he says Transformers will be his "Lord of the Rings." So we can therefore infer that it might still be a good flickUh, no, that's not at all what he's saying, he's saying the movie's franchise will be so huge that his face/name will be well-known in the mainstream crowd and he can do whatever work he wants from this. It has nothing to do with the movie's content.

Tycho
11-15-2006, 05:53 PM
I could see Shia coming out of this OK.

BumbleBee on the other hand will be type-cast as an Autobot. :D

But he might get the role of Frankenstein's monster in "Van Helsing: the sequel."

Chaddymac
11-16-2006, 01:19 PM
I have a hard time believing that a professional writer would use exclamation points even a 10th of the times that they showed up in this script. That, on top of a plot that reads like it was written by a child (complete with every bit of 'tard fodder that justifies the derision people regard summer movies with), and the use of breathlessly fannish terms like "oh yes, Optimus Prime", in lines meant to direct cast and crew make me wonder how legit this script it.

There is a credible case for it being reald. But, I say that it may also be fake.

If the actual movie is in any way derived from this script, I will say now that JT is right in his doom-saying.
Hey Dom -

I read scripts for a living and a lot of times I run into professional writers taking liberties in writing their scripts. A) it's not for the cast and crew, it's for the executives who don't want to read about camera angles, they want to be lead through the story in a way that helps them visualize it; and B) a lot of them have ADD and need to constantly be brought back into the story. The stuff you describe isn't uncommon at all in my experience. I'm also pretty familiar with Kurtzman & Orci's style, so if you've got a copy I could read, I could probably give you a lot of reasons to support or debunk the veracity of the script. PM me if you're interested. I haven't read anything on this flick.

Chaddymac
11-16-2006, 01:47 PM
First official MP-05 pic?

http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid=143612&uid=428