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JediTricks
11-16-2006, 02:54 PM
Hopefully that's an EARLY prototype, there are some good things about it like the cartoon-derived head, but the scope seems too large and the legs are too thin. But it's a good start. I hope he's at least as big as MP Prime, anything smaller will be a disappointment.


A review with new photos of Classics OP vs Megs 2pack:
http://tformers.com/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=739

Ouch! I'm not so sure I'll be getting this set now.

El Chuxter
11-16-2006, 02:59 PM
I took your advice and rushed to Target last night.

And I found...




Mirage.

Just one, mixed in with a few Astrotrains. No Grimlocks. :(

JediTricks
11-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Still, a better find than I came up with... nothing. Didja buy him? Howis?

El Chuxter
11-16-2006, 03:54 PM
I did buy him, but didn't get to open him yesterday. I should be able to this evening. I did notice that he's the first to have substantial changes to his bio. (He's now an easy-going fella, always quick with a joke, rather than a pompous aristocrat who wonders if he should be a Decepticon instead.)

So I noticed after posting that comment that Target's getting Magnus vs Skywarp. I assume Skywarp will be a straight black repaint of Starscream. Anything special about Magnus, or another white Optimus Prime repaint?

Tycho
11-16-2006, 04:58 PM
I'm not crazy about Masterpiece Megatron as of yet. I think I'll need to see more pictures. I agree with JT's assessment that the scope looks too big and I'm a bit tired of an over-sized gun that's larger than a semi-truck.

Dominic Guglieme
11-16-2006, 07:50 PM
Does that Megatron even have a right hand? I actually wanted that set...:tired: ....wanted.....



CM, I sent a message.


I may well have been wrong about the movie script. When the review was posed to several forums (SSG and BWTF among them) some people disputed that the script was likely fake, and asked a reasonable enough question: How did it compare with other scripts, especially from the genre?
As the bulk of the scripts I have seen were in a classroom setting (part of film classes taken long ago as an undergrad), this was a fair question. While visiting with a friend (going by the name Surge) last night, I ran the script by him, both a hardcopy, and a PDF. He is *wuite* the film buff.
He glanced over the script. He, reasonably, argued that the many holes and flaws in the plot (that I did not ennumerate fully in my review) were normal for the genre. And, the writing style was consistent with what he had seen in other scripts. As he explains it, script writers are essentially writing down to their audience. (Their audience being producers and studio officials.)
For giggles, he did an internet search, and found several scripts from the same genre, and said scripts had the same childish writing style (exclamation points, excessive caps, and the like). While he could not find any scripts by the writers of the TF script we had, he could find a list of movies credited to them.........and it was not encouraging.
Surge also used a bit of forensics. The copies he saw had what looked to be a water-mark going across the page. I intitially took this to be a "confidential" stamp. Surge used to work in a bank, and thus has some familiarity with how water-marks work. Without getting bogged down in the technical details, he determined that the "stamp" was in fact a watter mark, on a page that had been written on, and then scanned into a computer.
That, combined with what we know of the script (it surgacing in August), mean that if this is a hoax, it is extremely labor intensive.
The one thing that gave him pause was the sheer amount of product placement (yahoo, XBox and other recognizeable names and popular songs). Unless this is a later draft, such things are usually not included, as the writer is unlikely to know what they have a right/obligation to include. Of course, if this is a real script, then the product placement probably means it is a much later stage draft than one might optimistically hope.
Bottom line, this one might be for real. Either way, we will find out next summer.
That being said, on with the reviews: Comics, toys, and some other stuff are on the menu this week.


Toys:
Shadow Recon Team:
Yay, 1/2 of the last wave (Wave 10) of the Scout line for Cybertron! And, they are all mine! Long and short, these are recolors of the previous Recon Team, but cast in clears and blues. The effect has been done better on other toys for other lines, and worse on other toys. There is some good work on the Jolt (the copter) in terms of hiding internal mechanisms with clear plastic. There are also a few points, mostly on Reverb (the truck), that could have done with less color (both in paint and plastic. SixSpeed (the car) is the most improved. A few things are worth noting. The packaging has Giant Planet heraldry. This may be a reference to the cartoon, or it may be a printing error. And, Jolt in blue plastic looks even more like a Micronaut than Jolt cast in red. The biggest flaw with this set lies in Hasbro's lax distribution of late.
Grade: B These are worth picking up, especially if yo do not have the originals. But, do not pay more than 10-12 bucks.
Hightail:
The other half of the 10th and final Scout wave. No new molding or great innovations hear. Hightail is a recolor of Lugnutz. Nothing here is likely to greatly change one's mind on the mold. If you hated "Nutz, you will hate this. If you like 'Nutz, you will like this. The colors on this one are a bit better than Lugnutz, and the bio note is one of the more interesting offered by the line.
Grade: B A solid enough toy, but as with the Shadow Recon Team, do not go too crazy looking for it if you have the previous use of the mo.

Other:
Unicron.com Golden Disk set:
All told, this was worth the 12 bucks. For those who do not know, the ownwers of Unicron.com customize and kitbash at a level that most fans simply do not have the skill to do. While selling custom figures is common enough, the Lukis brothers design and mass-produce custom toys. This past year, they produced a set of Golden Disks from the Beast Wars series. Both disks have unique, and detailed sculpting on both sides. (For example, the phrase "Sounds of Earth" is legible on the "Voyager" disk.) As an added bonus, the set also includes a pre-fabricated disk holder, should a fan want to customize a Transmetal Megatron to hold the disks.
Grade: A Buy these. Now.
Reviews in passing and in package:


Classics Bumblebee
Basically, a lil' Alternator. In fairness, Bumblebee is better engineered than your average Alternator, but has the same bothersome allignment questions common to the line. Combine that with a stupidly out of scale accessory, and we have a truly mediocre toy that should have been better. Buy one if it strikes your fancy, but nothing to go nuts over.
Classics Starscream
The transform on this is intricate, innovative, and avoids being overly complicated. For all that though, the designers got lazy with the nosecone of the jet. And, as must every other character in Classics got an updated form, it is a bit perplexing that Starscream not be given a more modern alternate form. (After all, Hasbro clearly has a thing for F-22s.) Not a perfect toy, but not a bad one by any means.

Dom
-not planning to hunt for toys for a good long time.......

Tycho
11-17-2006, 12:52 AM
This was very coincidental, but I watch the City of San Diego government channel - our televised City Council sessions. I like that sort of thing.

They had a debate about regulating ice cream trucks to selling only food products. Apparently, besides selling tobacco products, they are selling very realistic replica guns to youngsters in our predominatly black or Mexican neighborhoods.

Our Council heard testimony from an attorney that defends youths often enough. Adults committing threats with a fake gun can plead deals from 5 years in prison down to probation. Kids get an automatic 5 years in juvenile detention and the felony on their record is permanent and cannot be sealed or made to disappear. Kids cannot plea bargain deals as they are not adults. I hope I got all that straight.

They also said that often enough, kids and gang members a like, just show the gun, tucked in the waistline - see Ice Cube in Boyz in the Hood. Even an orange tip is covered that way. And they continue to sell these realistic replica guns or AirSoft weapons from Ice Cream Trucks!

Look, I'd sort of want Megatron for nostalgic reasons and I certainly wouldn't resell him to a child.

However I also was a former local council member and would vote on ordinances like this one.

I think in order to protect my constituents, their businesses, and their families, I'd have to consider a vote to ban Megatron.

The law says that you cause undo stress from fear of bodily harm by showing a weapon, at school, in a bank robbery, wherever. Kids do stupid things even with toy guns. Heck, adults do stupid things.

I've brought the matter up before: what if someone alters a Nerf gun or SuperSoaker to fire real bullets and kills with it? Well, I'm sure it could be done, but what criminal wants to take the chance that their toy won't be taken seriously if they threaten someone with a SuperSoaker during a car jacking. Yeah, the modified gun will kill you, but you might not know that. On the other hand, a gang hit with a modified SuperSoaker on a beach, might just work.You take a real gun, mold bright plastic parts around it and add a silencer in bright colors and there you go.

I'm for the right to own personal firearms. I want the 2nd Ammendment clarrified, so that everyone knows it means you can go buy a handgun and keep it loaded in your home.

I think that you should be licensed and educated about it, as should any family members living with you - and you might want to lock it up very securely if you have guests staying with you.

I'm at my cousins' at the moment and I hate a straight keyboard (my hands hurt) so I'll continue later from home on my natural keyboard. This bugs me enough that I've meant to buy a natural keyboard to carry in my backback to USB connect to my laptop!

But I'm not sure if this should go off to the Rancor Pit discussions about 2nd Ammendment rights, or not - but it is also about MPE 05 Megatron as well.

figrin bran
11-17-2006, 01:58 AM
Wow, that OP/Megs set is really underwhelming. I'll probably pick up the Skywarp/Magnus set though especially since at 19.99 it's quite a bargain considering that voyager class magnus alone would cost that much. I can't wait for Jetfire either!

Did anyone pick up Titanium Optimal Optimus by any chance?

JT, i actually have that mold of BW Megs from the BW anniversary repaints and so i didn't want to buy the cybertron green version.

El Chuxter
11-17-2006, 10:05 AM
JT: Mirage is rather cool. I'm not sure that he's a $10 toy -- he's very skinny and a bit gappy in places, but still a nice toy. (Maybe not a display piece on par with the Alternators, though.)

My main complaint (and only real one) is the lack of a gun. I don't care for the "front of the car snaps off and becomes a crappy-looking 'weapon.'"

If you've not seen him up close, well, you've probably noticed the "Witwicky Sparkplugs" ad on the spoiler. Well, there's another "easter egg" on the front (which, unfortunately, also means it's on the gun). I forget the exact wording, but it's "Lithonian" something.

JediTricks
11-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I did buy him, but didn't get to open him yesterday. I should be able to this evening. I did notice that he's the first to have substantial changes to his bio. (He's now an easy-going fella, always quick with a joke, rather than a pompous aristocrat who wonders if he should be a Decepticon instead.)I should kick you for buying it and not opening it, you don't deserve to own this figure!!! :mad: ;)


So I noticed after posting that comment that Target's getting Magnus vs Skywarp. I assume Skywarp will be a straight black repaint of Starscream. Anything special about Magnus, or another white Optimus Prime repaint?Skywarp will be black/purple and have a notably different paint pattern, Ultra Mag will be white with blue and tiny Autobot symbols on his shoulders, and I think he looks pretty sharp considering he's merely a repaint.



Does that Megatron even have a right hand?I looked carefully, he does.

So if the script is real Dom, weren't my warnings all those months ago prophetic?


There is some good work on the Jolt (the copter) in terms of hiding internal mechanisms with clear plastic.Hmm, I think I disagree, he has no internal mechanisms to hide, and you can see he's hollow.


And, Jolt in blue plastic looks even more like a Micronaut than Jolt cast in red.HAW! That's an awesome analogy!


The colors on this one are a bit better than LugnutzReally? I felt the opposite, that they looked cheaper and less interesting, but that was based only on viewing it in the bubble and seeing the bot in the packaging photo on the back.



Classics Bumblebee
Basically, a lil' Alternator. In fairness, Bumblebee is better engineered than your average Alternator, but has the same bothersome allignment questions common to the line. Combine that with a stupidly out of scale accessory, and we have a truly mediocre toy that should have been better. Buy one if it strikes your fancy, but nothing to go nuts over.Did you buy this or just examine it?


Classics Starscream
The transform on this is intricate, innovative, and avoids being overly complicated. For all that though, the designers got lazy with the nosecone of the jet. And, as must every other character in Classics got an updated form, it is a bit perplexing that Starscream not be given a more modern alternate form. (After all, Hasbro clearly has a thing for F-22s.) Not a perfect toy, but not a bad one by any means.I totally disagree about the nosecone, I think it was an acceptable choice, he can look right or left just fine. My complaints are the lackluster underside of the jet (it being pure kibble and all) and the blocky, limited nature of the robot body.



Did anyone pick up Titanium Optimal Optimus by any chance? Not I, though I've seen it a bunch of times now. I barely like the full-sized original version, this doesn't even look THAT good. I saw Scourge at Target the other day for the first time, I just ain't into it though and passed on that too.


JT, i actually have that mold of BW Megs from the BW anniversary repaints and so i didn't want to buy the cybertron green version.Ah, ok then, yeah, really don't need 2 of it. You made the right choice getting Beast OP in the CY paint scheme, looks way better than the BW 10th version.



JT: Mirage is rather cool. I'm not sure that he's a $10 toy -- he's very skinny and a bit gappy in places, but still a nice toy. (Maybe not a display piece on par with the Alternators, though.)Aww, that's not good to hear. I'll still buy him the second I see him though.


My main complaint (and only real one) is the lack of a gun. I don't care for the "front of the car snaps off and becomes a crappy-looking 'weapon.'"It's not an issue for me since Mirage is generally a non-fighting character. I can take it or leave it.

El Chuxter
11-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Mirage is a non-fighting character, but he still needs his hunting rifle that fires acid darts, perfect for bagging trophy turbofoxes.

(Sad thing is, I used no reference material. That's totally from memory, and Mirage was actually one of my least favorite G1 Wave 1 characters.)

Tycho
11-17-2006, 04:14 PM
Mirage is awesome - he can make himself invisible!

He saved all the Autobots in the season opener for the first G1 episodes ever!

If you're going to diss Mirage, pack up your toys and go home!

El Chuxter
11-17-2006, 04:28 PM
Mirage also whooped Ravage's butt in the original Marvel Comics miniseries. Ravage in the comics was a pretty nasty customer. His real strength lie in his ability to play upon his opponents' weaknesses, as when he played up Mirage's questions of loyalty... he even almost talked Wheeljack into betraying Jetfire to the 'Cons!

Tycho
11-17-2006, 07:58 PM
Ravage talked? Who translated? Dr. Doolittle?

Actually, I might remember a G1 show where he said something.

Chaddymac
11-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Ravage talked? Who translated? Dr. Doolittle?

Actually, I might remember a G1 show where he said something.
In the original MTMTE multi-parter, when Ravage transforms into a tape, he speaks to Soundwave. that's the only time he spoke in the show.

That said, It would've been awesome if he'd had a russian accent!

figrin bran
11-18-2006, 12:57 AM
i used to own G1 Mirage but sold him to a friend a few years back. i actually had him since i was a kid and i'm not sure why i picked him at the store over sideswipe, sunstreaker or wheeljack.

Tycho
11-18-2006, 01:10 AM
I started buying G1 Transformers late in the game, even back in the day. The 1986 movie turned me on to going for it. I already had religiously been watching the cartoon, but I was able to track down such gems as Optimus Prime, Starscream, Megatron, all new in the box, 2 years or more after they'd started climbing to popularity.

It was too late to find Mirage, Wheeljack, and Sunstreaker in the stores, but Hasbro had this mail-away offer where you could buy them, as well as Reflector - Ratchet too I think. Most of my Transformers I got in G1 days came Mint in the Box, but I think these were mail-aways and I was so happy the day that package arrived. I think Mirage and Wheeljack were the two I loved the most. Sunstreaker's skid panel dragged on his back half and he didn't roll as fast as the others, nor was he as well proportioned as a robot. I love his modern Alternator that much more because of it. But Mirage and Wheeljack were perfect even back then.

El Chuxter
11-18-2006, 09:01 AM
All the animal cassettes could talk in the comic. Ravage was especially nasty. Ratbat even became an interrim Decepticon commander for a short while. I don't recall either of the condors being especially wordy, though.

Dominic Guglieme
11-20-2006, 09:51 PM
So if the script is real Dom, weren't my warnings all those months ago prophetic?

Hmm, I think I disagree, he has no internal mechanisms to hide, and you can see he's hollow.

Really? I felt the opposite, that they looked cheaper and less interesting, but that was based only on viewing it in the bubble and seeing the bot in the packaging photo on the back.

Did you buy this or just examine it?

I totally disagree about the nosecone, I think it was an acceptable choice, he can look right or left just fine. My complaints are the lackluster underside of the jet (it being pure kibble and all) and the blocky, limited nature of the robot body.





The mechanisms I was thinking about in Jolt was the head assembly. It is barely noticable, even with the clear plastic (as the dome still obscures it).

Yes, you were right about the movie. That means none of us win. :sad: (Why is the sad emoticon the first one on the menu?)


Hightail is better colored than Lugnutz, once out of the package. (I may even recolor a spare LN into CyKill, based on the inspiration of Hightail.)


I fiddled with both Classics, while visiting my friend and his new-born. Starscream's nosecone just sorta hangs there. It could have been better.


And, I always rather liked Mirage, both in the cartoons and comics.

JediTricks
11-21-2006, 06:28 PM
The mechanisms I was thinking about in Jolt was the head assembly. It is barely noticable, even with the clear plastic (as the dome still obscures it). It's just a simple swivel point, but I do see what you mean. I'm just glad they painted over that dumb panel on the bottom of the dome in alt mode, that made no sense the first time around.


Yes, you were right about the movie. That means none of us win. :sad: (Why is the sad emoticon the first one on the menu?)It knows how bad this movie will be. ;) I have no idea why it's first really, but yeah, this appears to be the project that will do bad things to Transfans.


Hightail is better colored than Lugnutz, once out of the package. (I may even recolor a spare LN into CyKill, based on the inspiration of Hightail.) No way I'm purchasing it, but if I see one on the loose I'll check it out.


I fiddled with both Classics, while visiting my friend and his new-born. Starscream's nosecone just sorta hangs there. It could have been better. It does hang there, but he's not the only TF to have this, and I prefer it to how the G1 figure dealt with it.


And, I always rather liked Mirage, both in the cartoons and comics.I liked Mirage too, though never read the comics.

Tenric78
11-21-2006, 06:43 PM
A couple of years ago I broke my G1 Mirage on accident. I had turned his torso too many times, I guess because he broke at that little point. :( I'm dissapointed in the look of this new version, I was really hoping he'd be closer to the G1 look.

Tycho
11-21-2006, 06:50 PM
I'd replace the G1 Mirage if you keep G1 Transformers around. EBay I guess. But I always liked him and it would seem to be more worth your while than what you'd spend on some of the new figures (exceptions made for the cool ones).

JediTricks
11-21-2006, 07:11 PM
That G1 plastic gets brittle and breaks easily after this much time, it's a real shame. I don't believe Takara or Hasbro have ever reissued Mirage in all their last few years of reissuing.

Tycho
11-21-2006, 07:16 PM
That G1 plastic gets brittle and breaks easily after this much time, it's a real shame. I don't believe Takara or Hasbro have ever reissued Mirage in all their last few years of reissuing.

What's pathetic is that Takara issued Masterpiece Starscream as molded in worse quality plastic. As I mentioned, mine is perfect, but I'm not likely to transform him back into a jet again in my lifetime!

If they repaint him as Thundercracker or Skywarp, I might go for that (terrible, feeding money into something that's constructed like crap even if the engineering is ingenious) but I'll leave the other planes in their jet forms or something. Besides, I'm not likely to get new headsculpts on either of those two if they do go there. To be honest, I don't think the cartoon and certainly not the G1 toys gave us anything of the sort. Skywarp and Thundercracker had the same head and face as Starscream unfortunately. The original designers surely had no idea there'd be a cartoon or that Starscream would become such a breakout, popular character.

Dominic Guglieme
11-21-2006, 07:20 PM
I do not know how much the movie will poison the franchise. After all, TF survived the original movie. But, no way will it help the franchise.

And, yes, while Classics Starscream is better than the old one, is that really saying much?

JediTricks
11-21-2006, 07:41 PM
New pics of MP Megatron:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=115773

Wow! Megs is as big as Prime, that's fantatic! The limbs look awful thin though, but it's a start.


I do not know how much the movie will poison the franchise. After all, TF survived the original movie. But, no way will it help the franchise. I dunno if it survived the movie intact, that began a serious downhill slide for TFs that bottomed out in no toys at all a few small stretches between G1 and G2 and then G2 and Machine Wars.


And, yes, while Classics Starscream is better than the old one, is that really saying much?I dunno, I never had G1 Screamer. I know there's a recent figure that had its nosecone hanging off the back of its head like this, but I can't remember what it was. It's certainly not something I'd encourage them to do, but given the choice between this and the fold-back cone, I'll take the newer idea for sure.

El Chuxter
11-21-2006, 09:48 PM
Classics Jetfire is out.

How do I know?

He's sitting in the next room.

Why is he not opened?

Because Grimlock is!

ME GRIMLOCK!!!

I have to say, I've never admitted defeat on any Transformer before. I couldn't figure out Grimlock's arms, and the instructions make little sense. I finally figured that he's the one TF Classic (so far) that I want to display in alt mode, so I changed him back.

Tycho
11-21-2006, 10:58 PM
New pics of MP Megatron:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=115773

Wow! Megs is as big as Prime, that's fantatic! The limbs look awful thin though, but it's a start.

I don't know if I'll buy this. The other thing I noticed is that Megatron requires two (2) support stands - one on that giant scope of an arm-cannon. Do you guys see that?

The other thing is that this figure is not the final painted version (I hope) and I'm waiting for closer pictures and such.



I dunno, I never had G1 Screamer.


The same thing as G1 Skywarp, Thundercracker, Thrust, Ramjet, and Dirge.


I know there's a recent figure that had its nosecone hanging off the back of its head like this, but I can't remember what it was.

Though you didn't have to, the instructions showed you transformed G1 Ramjet that way (I think).

Tenric78
11-21-2006, 11:00 PM
That G1 plastic gets brittle and breaks easily after this much time, it's a real shame. I don't believe Takara or Hasbro have ever reissued Mirage in all their last few years of reissuing.

I don't think so either. He was one of the two I was waiting for when they were doing all the reissues with Toys R Us. The other one they are making soon (soundwave) but I'm still waiting on my Mirage dang it!

As far as the Starscream reissues go, I have an older one in the package and I have the new classics one in the package. Yes, I'm one of those horrible people that doesn't open all their toys. My roomate opened the new classics Starscream of his and the nosecone does hang off the back, but it isn't as bad as you'd think it would be.

El Chuxter
11-21-2006, 11:37 PM
Though you didn't have to, the instructions showed you transformed G1 Ramjet that way (I think).

Yeah, that was technically the "right" way to do it. Thrust, Ramjet, and Dirge all had instructions to transform them identically to the first-generation jets, except with the wings facing the opposite direction. The cartoon and comic book showed them with cones pointing upward, which was possible with the toys.

I opened Jetfire, and he is MARVELOUS! I think he has beaten the nearly-tied Bumblebee and Hot Rodimus as the best Classics figure yet. Articulation is quite nice, the armor is a great touch (and homage to the original), and transformation is not impossible. I have him displayed in full armor (though with shoulder cannons retracted, to more closely resemble the "real" Jetfire), and he's freaking sweet. I may like Grimlock a few million times better as a character, but Jetfire is the greater of the two figures by a massively long shot.

So we have so far:

Astrotrain
Starscream
Megatron
Optimus Prime
Bumblebee
Hot Rodimus
Grimlock
Mirage
Jetfire
Optimus Prime vs Megatron 2-pack

And, forthcoming:
Ramjet
Cliffjumper
Ultra Magnus vs Skywarp
Devastator (though not entirely accurate, as he's five pieces, and he's missing Mixmaster and Hook in favor of some loser fill-in named "Hightower")

I'm not counting mini-figures and those other "Mini" characters who shall remain nameless lest I go into a tirade.

Am I missing any other rumored or confirmed figures?

Chaddymac
11-22-2006, 01:16 PM
I read the script and then spoke to a friend of mine who worked on the movie and it's legit. My thoughts are that it is EXACTLY what I anticipated when they hired Michael Bay. A series of very cool action sequences connected by a chain of cliches, a thin plot, and without any perceiveable depth or even a good over-arching theme. You'd think people would watch SPIDER-MAN or X-MEN and learn the lesson that people expect more than just great effects and a good thrill ride. They do not, however, and this will be a very forgettable film. Expect an amazing trailer, good opening box office, and quick drop off the following weekend. Such a shame.

Now, onto happier news - where do I get Jetfire? That thing makes me giddy.

El Chuxter
11-22-2006, 01:31 PM
I found him at Wal-Mart (the one in Beaumont, CA, to be exact). I'd found one lone Mirage at Target about a week earlier, and was scouring the earth for Grimlock. I found him last night; there were a bunch of Classics on the pegs, and several scattered on the shelf. I found one Grimlock lying on a bunch of assorted Cybertron and Classics Voyagers, and when I picked him up, I noticed the one in the middle was Jetfire.

Grimlock appears to be shortpacked. There were three Mirages and one Grimlock.

Tycho
11-22-2006, 02:02 PM
Chaddymac: I don't think it's a thin plot at all. I think all the cliches that would be expected are being delivered, but that is what I'd look for anyway.

It'll be a movie I see several times in the theater.

Dominic Guglieme
11-22-2006, 02:21 PM
re: Grimlock
I knew Hasbro would find a way to make Classics hard. I knew it. I just freakin' knew it. Bastards.



I read the script and then spoke to a friend of mine who worked on the movie and it's legit. My thoughts are that it is EXACTLY what I anticipated when they hired Michael Bay. A series of very cool action sequences connected by a chain of cliches, a thin plot, and without any perceiveable depth or even a good over-arching theme. You'd think people would watch SPIDER-MAN or X-MEN and learn the lesson that people expect more than just great effects and a good thrill ride. They do not, however, and this will be a very forgettable film. Expect an amazing trailer, good opening box office, and quick drop off the following weekend. Such a shame.

Now, onto happier news - where do I get Jetfire? That thing makes me giddy.

No, you are wrong. You are lying. Oh, why are you lying to us.

Fine. I concede. This is the real script, and the movie will be terrible. Tycho, a "thin plot" implies all the moron fodder cliches that you are looking for. In this case, the cliches are not even well done.

I will likely see the movie at Botcon, or opening weekend, and be hoping up until the moment I see it that the script we have seen is a hoax, and that JT and Chaddymack and the other doomwayers all eat a big ol' slice of "I was completely, totally and utterly wrong" pie. Then, I will go on-line and complain more than all of them put together.


Of course, given the rave reviews the recent Beast Wars comics got in some quarters, there may well be enough hardcore fans to float this movie, if only on video.

Well, maybe the toys will be good. (And, keep the gloom and doom to yourselves until we have seen more of the line.)

kool-aid killer
11-22-2006, 02:26 PM
I found him at Wal-Mart (the one in Beaumont, CA, to be exact). I'd found one lone Mirage at Target about a week earlier, and was scouring the earth for Grimlock. I found him last night; there were a bunch of Classics on the pegs, and several scattered on the shelf. I found one Grimlock lying on a bunch of assorted Cybertron and Classics Voyagers, and when I picked him up, I noticed the one in the middle was Jetfire.

Grimlock appears to be shortpacked. There were three Mirages and one Grimlock.

Your good luck inspired me to try looking for them around here, i just got back from a Target, i found two Mirages on the pegs. I looked up and down for Grimlock but he was nowhere to be found, so i took Mirage with me. Car mode looks fantastic, his bot mode works for me. A little skinny above the hips, but it evens out up top.

"ME KAK NOT HAPPY!"

JediTricks
11-22-2006, 02:48 PM
I don't know if I'll buy this. The other thing I noticed is that Megatron requires two (2) support stands - one on that giant scope of an arm-cannon. Do you guys see that?Dingleberry! It's a friggin' in-progress prototype, those stands tell us nothing at this point.


The other thing is that this figure is not the final painted version (I hope) and I'm waiting for closer pictures and such.This isn't a painted prototype, it's clay-gray and still in progress.


The same thing as G1 Skywarp, Thundercracker, Thrust, Ramjet, and Dirge.I never owned ANY seekers.


Chaddy, thanks for confirming the saddest news possible. :p

Tycho, you're the only person I know who has read the script that doesn't think it's woefully thin.

Dom, sorry man, you know in your heart this will be bad on every level.

El Chuxter
11-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Can I ask a stupid question?

No?

Well, I'm asking anyway.

Where did the term "Seekers" to describe the original six Decepticon Jets originate?

JediTricks
11-25-2006, 05:40 PM
Apparently it's fan-derived, perhaps from offhand comments in a catalog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seekers_(Transformers)

---

TF Movie alt modes:
http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=6819&dispsize=800&start=0

They look alright, nothing super amazing though.

---

As well as the on-sale SWTF Millennium Falcon, I picked up the Classics Optimus vs Megatron 2pack at TRU yesterday. The set has an unholy amount of twisties and clearbands, getting them out of the box was epic. I haven't watched the DVD yet. The molds have some clever ideas, but the execution on them both is extremely lacking. Optimus de-transforms in both modes too easily, and actually comes apart due to the pegs holding the waist on being very shallow. Megatron's left arm can pop off during transformation, and his right gimmick arm is somewhat floppy. Another complaint I have is that the sculpting isn't as tight as other entries in this line, the biggest annoyance being Prime's cartoony face with giant eyes and silver paint above the mask all the way up to the brow, it takes some getting used to. And I just can't get past Op's alt mode, it feels small and unfinished. Prime's gimmick is ridiculous, push in the plunger and his whole upper body spins around like a top, and it doesn't lock down when it's done spinning, it just spins loosely until you pull the plunger back out till the lock tab engages.

Truck mode is not worth mentioning again except to say it's a sad affair. Transformation is a little more creative than expected, even using springs to move a couple pieces around, but the tolerances on some pieces makes it not quite lovely. Optimus in bot mode is like a little wannabe Masterpiece version, it lifts a lot of its look from that, so it's pretty lean and heroic. He's got pretty decent articulation, no waist articulation but you can fudge some poses by turning the upper torso. His upper leg joints are a tad loose but the rest is tight. There's a little hole sculpted above each eye, and each eye has a pupil indented into the middle. His gun is pretty nifty, transforming from a gun emplacement into a rifle. They painted small Autobot logos on each forearm, there's a big blank spot for one on his upper left shoulder but they passed it up.

Megatron's tank mode is narrow but otherwise solid and pretty nifty, it's filled in well, the turret rotates, and the main gun elevates. Transformation is good, no gimmicky stuff like Op but not as simple as him either, and the parts lock down very well (minus the gimmick hand, of course) - when the left arm doesn't pop off. Megs' bot mode is not as slick and iconic as Op but is held together better and pretty tough-looking overall. Megs is about half a head shorter than Prime, yet a tad bulkier. Megatron's head is classic stuff, the bucket helmet isn't oversized this time, and he's got a fairly neutral-to-mean face rather than being over-the-top. I wouldn't mind the collar around his head so much if it were green rather than tan. Megs has good articulation, including real waist articulation.

Well, I've covered everything I can think of. I'd say this set isn't a total washout, it does have an iconic-looking Optimus Prime and Megs is alright, if you have patience and a little care you might dig it, but there are enough drawbacks that it definitely isn't for everybody. Grade: C

Tycho
11-25-2006, 06:05 PM
Transformer Movie Alt Modes Complaint Form.

I, Tycho certify that these suck for the following reasons:

(and am consequently very glad I collect Alternators!)

1) Barricade could've so easily used the Alternator Wheeljack tooling with added police lights and a different head. From the plastic wheels up, this appears like it could be a travesty, and not that making it transform into a Bionicle would be any better, its robot will doubtfully look anything like Barricade in the movie.

2) I didn't know the GAR Clone TurboTank was in the Transformers movie? Will this transform into Han Solo or Chewbacca? OH! It's Bonecrusher? Hmmm. Well did he get Order 66 from Palpatine or Megatron?

3) Look kids! It's Brawl - the first tank smaller than a Ford Mustang. He even has iguana guards on his front end in case any salamanders get in his way! Am I the only one who wants something larger than a Masterpiece Edition for Brawl before I'd buy?

4) BumbleBee - the hero of the movie! This looks like the 1974 version of him, so we know Hasbro will market that AND the 2007 version of him. This will illustrate not only greed and avarice in marketing, but the production history of the Chevorlet Camarro. You knew it was going to happen, but since they have the Chevorlet Corvette license with the Alternators, let's see a 2007 BumbleBee with rubber tires, working steering yoke, opening doors and hood with engine, etc. This will also not transform to look like BionicleBee, but aside from him not being Alternator quality, he'll wind up looking better with his car kibble than Michael Bay's signature on him. By the way, if you wait for the clearance sales by After-Christmas Sales 2007, there will be autographed Michael Bay carded figures.

5) Jazz always looks cool. It's not an Alternator though. I'll stick with my "Meister" figure, thanks. Did Hasbro buy back the rights to the name Jazz now or something? What do you think? The $7-10 price range? Or are they going to charge $20 - and this is what we'll get for it?

6) Scorponok? So what's his excuse? He's not a Transformer. He doesn't transform into anything. He might be just the right size to go with my Alternators however, though a realistic mechanical scorpion that looks like an earth-scorpion would be the size of a gear shifter in one of my Alternators.

Scorps might be the only one of these I'd buy. That's not to say I don't like the looks or the vehicle designs, and that the robots likely look better than they do in the actual movie.

but....

a) I'd prefer realistic scale differences
b) I'd prefer rubber tires and Alternator detail
c) I'd buy Masterpiece sizes where appropriate (Brawl, Blackout - not shown, etc)
d) I'll buy one version of BumbleBee, the 2007 Camarro


I'll think of more creative criticism and post it later.

JediTricks
11-26-2006, 01:46 AM
1) Barricade could've so easily used the Alternator Wheeljack tooling with added police lights and a different head. From the plastic wheels up, this appears like it could be a travesty, and not that making it transform into a Bionicle would be any better, its robot will doubtfully look anything like Barricade in the movie.1) Alternators are not kid-friendly, which is important for this line. 2) The Alt Wheeljack/Grimlock mold is not a Saleen Mustang, the Saleen version is different enough to warrant it.


2) I didn't know the GAR Clone TurboTank was in the Transformers movie? Will this transform into Han Solo or Chewbacca? OH! It's Bonecrusher? Hmmm. Well did he get Order 66 from Palpatine or Megatron?It reminds me a lot of a Beast Machines figure, Strika, but more plasticky.

Tycho
11-26-2006, 05:44 PM
My MySpace TF Group has turned up pictures of transforming cameras, PS1 controllers, and cell phones. I posted the alt forms here. To see .gifs of these moving and transforming, go to:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=27188511&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=101114536&Mytoken=D1CD0E50-073D-48D7-97BB41C5ED9765D831492986

I think the could be from the movie (non characters, given the Spark, as a result of a misfire from The Matrix - well they call it an energon cube in the script I read). In any event, all 3 of these items have microchip technology. It could allow a Maximum Overdrive scenerio. You won't see an iron or a charcoal grill suddenly attack in the movie. But the script did describe a plasma television suddenly attacking someone in Target in the storyline I read. That could be scary because I once had a plasma television take nearly everything I had in my wallet while I was at Frey's. It's still around here, stalking me, and often holds me hostage in my living room, forcing me to watch the movies I post about here in the forums.

Anyway, I have a finished shot of the CGI Scorponok with the actors in the opening scene of the movie, which I'll post in the movie thread. (TV / Movies / Other Non-Star Wars)

Here's the Alt modes for the new toy pics.

Tenric78
11-27-2006, 06:17 PM
I picked up the Classics Optimus vs Megatron 2pack at TRU yesterday.

My roomate picked one of these the other day. I thought this set was totally pointless just looking at the pictures on Tformers.com. That truck mode is pretty aweful, but I do like the fact that Prime is a mobile gun platform.

Out of the two figures, I'll have to who with Megatron as being the better of the two. Still, I'll be glad to pass this one up.

JediTricks
11-27-2006, 06:48 PM
A couple things I meant to mention about the Classics Op vs Megs 2pack: both figures are on the small side of the regular deluxe size. Op's gun has a powerlinx peg (standard 5mm peg with a hole in the center), which means you can attach it to any minicon figure. Also, Megs' right hand - the gun antihand - is removable, it's a 5mm peg but a hair too large to safely fit most pegholes, still I did get it to work with some and you could track down a new fist from another figure and customize it to fit here.


My roomate picked one of these the other day. I thought this set was totally pointless just looking at the pictures on Tformers.com. That truck mode is pretty aweful, but I do like the fact that Prime is a mobile gun platform.

Out of the two figures, I'll have to who with Megatron as being the better of the two. Still, I'll be glad to pass this one up.I'll be honest, Optimus makes a fairly good robot, it's just too bad they cheaped out on paint, sculpting, and alt mode. I know my comments are on the negative side, but a "C" really is a passing grade and I am glad I have the set, yet at the same time I cannot fault you for passing on this one.

- -


My MySpace TF Group has turned up pictures of transforming cameras, PS1 controllers, and cell phones. I posted the alt forms here. I think the could be from the movie (non characters, given the Spark, as a result of a misfire from The Matrix - well they call it an energon cube in the script I read).Yeah, we saw these a couple months ago, they're images taken from the Japanese patent office, they were filed exactly when the Classics figures were, there were no movie figures at the time, so my guess is either TakaraTomy is planning more classics (I hope that's the case) or it's for an unrelated line, but I really doubt it's for the movie since there are no references to these guys anywhere in the scripts. A photo of a test-shot version has just come up recently, nothing new to see though.

Tycho
11-27-2006, 10:01 PM
Well, they aren't characters - they're just zombie-type Transformers that come to life when they've given "the Spark." Maybe the Plasma Television that attacks someone will be called "YouTube." Hahaha.

But no -they're not distinct personalities like Ironhide is.

So they might be from the movie, they might not. I don't see how something that is not a Cybertronian organism can use their parts to perfectly transform like that though. It might be another lame idea for the movie.

El Chuxter
11-28-2006, 08:52 AM
It might be another lame idea for the movie.

Bringing the total to 4,874 lame ideas, one good idea.

(Have to give them credit for casting Peter Cullen over George Clooney or Tom Hanks.)

Chaddymac
11-28-2006, 02:35 PM
I will say one thing about the script - it's an early draft and they had plenty of time to make significant changes to it before shooting began, and they're likely to have made changes during production as well. It's by no means a final picture of what the movie will be. Where the changes will go, however, is anyone's guess. You've got the sensibilities of Steven Spielberg and Michael Bay - two directors who couldn't me more dissimilar. So, find whatever measure of hope you need in that.

Dominic Guglieme
11-28-2006, 07:57 PM
What about the product placement though? I was given to understand that is usually done pretty late in the game.

And, that script would have to be completely rewritten to yield a good movie.

Chaddymac
11-29-2006, 07:02 PM
What about the product placement though? I was given to understand that is usually done pretty late in the game.

And, that script would have to be completely rewritten to yield a good movie.
Product placement happens throughout the process. Some producers try and get them involved in the beginning to cut the budget and try to incorporate it seamlessly into the creative effort (but, as nice as that sounds, it often gives advertisers more power and influence than you'd like too early in the game). Some producers involve product placement very late in the game, but have place holders for where they'd like to use it and select their partners based on how they fit with those plans (another nice idea, often problematic because advertisers don't like paying for stuff when they feel they have no control over it). Ultimately, it's fluid. In fact, general rule of movie making: there are no rules, only "the way they did it before" and "the way we're doing it now."

And yes, I agree, the script is awfully weak ("awfully" being the key word), but I've seen amazingly good solutions to problems come out of tweaks to a few key scenes, or a really smart dialogue pass. But that doesn't often help the structural problems and I feel like our waiting half the movie to see the Transformers doesn't pay off enough for me to think it was worth it.

I was thinking about it, and the major theme of this movie should be "More Than Meets The Eye". Obviously, the Transformers have multiple modes. But Spike/Sam has a hero inside him, his girl buddy isn't just a pretty face, Spike's great grandfather didn't lose his mind...etc. It we were to go with that as the theme, they could really strengthen it with one or two powerful speeches about seeing more than what's on the surface. And then, most importantly, get rid of the military-in-the-desert plot point entirely. That can just go. It's so pointless and boring.

Tycho
11-29-2006, 07:51 PM
I don't mind the military in the desert sequence.

SPOILER WARNING...........SPOILER WARNING..............SPOILER WARNING

I don't know Starscreams involved in it. As far as I read it's Blackout, Scorponok, and maybe Soundwave.

But I'd make it R-rated for its violence content and have Scorponok shredding soldiers into bloody chopped meat, ala Saving Private Ryan, with "Instruments of Destruction" (from the '86 Soundtrack) playing as background ambience. This would really establish the threat portrayed by the Decepticons. Starscream will make his entrance as the soldiers try to flee - he guns them down from the air, kills everyone (but we know Josh Dumahl's character gets away somehow, with a wounded Tyrese Gibson), and then Starscream transforms and personally commands the mission (to get access to the military's computer files on the location of Megatron).*

Of course this makes sense only if Starscream has some plot to leave Megatron incapacitated as he found him, and rule over the Decepticons himself, once he determines the location of (I want to call it) the Matrix (because what they're after better not be called the Energon Cube unless Michael Bay wants to demonstrate he can't even establish a first grader's level of understanding of an after-school cartoon show. Though that may be the actual case, here.)

*So we don't wait until halfway through the movie to see the Transformers at all - they'll start to appear in the first 5 minutes I'd bet. It's the Autobots who show up late (aside from BumbleBee). But I do like your theme idea Chaddymac.

JediTricks
11-29-2006, 10:31 PM
No Grimlock but...

Transformers Classics Mirage - one of the figures I've been anticipating most. I love how the vehicle mode looks, very much a Formula racing car but just futuristic enough to be TF. The first thing I noticed out of the package was that the spoiler was adjustable in vehicle mode, nice. Transformation is good, but the instructions are anti-helpful for part of it. Robot mode isn't much like the G1 figure, but is amazingly cool, unusual, sleek and spindly yet not gappy, and he's very nicely articulated. His weapon isn't much, but it stows nicely on his back. I'm still checking him out, so my ultra-early Grade: A-

Tycho
11-29-2006, 10:37 PM
That's good news, JT. I'd heard early concerns here or on another TF site that Mirage wasn't so enthusiastically anticipated.

I always liked the character, but was sort of indifferent about this figure, pending others' reviews.

JediTricks
11-30-2006, 06:01 PM
Mirage is a lot of fun and has a great range of motion except for his neck articulation, which is hampered by his weird upper body situation - he can look left and right, but his head is cocked to the side when doing so. EDIT: I take that back, I think he looks fine looking to the side, the head is only cocked forward a little, it just depends on how straight his posture is.

It's an awesome figure and does have some G1 homagery going on, the feet made from the back end and spoiler halves, the curved upper arms made from the sides of the car, the rounded head like the toy while the face is like the cartoon version, the vents on the forearms, the car front end off the back, and vehicle front end as the chest - even a curved area and nose-wings are represented somewhat. But even better, he's his own man rather than just being limited by the G1 figure.

Dominic Guglieme
11-30-2006, 07:35 PM
Transformers Escalation #1
-Okay, 1 year, 2 arcs, and a few 1 shots after IDW
took over the franchise, and where are we as we head
into the 3 arc? The franchise is still first gear,
with IDW and Furman delivering bold new takes on old
characters, on the assumption that people know and
care about the characters as a good unto themselves.
In fairness, Furman is giving us an intelligent and
plausible scenario, complete with an edgier Prime, and
a Megatron that is not objectively that bad. But, IDW
does not seem able to take this franchise beyond the
level of place holder. Grade: C


Primus:
This is the 3rd packaging variant of the Primus toy
from the Cybertron line. The first was a standard,
Supreme class toy. The second was the same toy, but
packaged with a PVC Unicron head. This third variant
is a Wal*Mart exclusive (possibly Black Friday
door-buster), with a "sampler" of 4 Minicons from
upcoming sets. After wavering for months on Primus,
I finally settled on getting this one, as the sale
price, and Minicons made this purhcase worthwhile.

Aesthetically, this toy is uneven.
The planet form is characterized by wide swaths of
minimal detail puntuated by oasis of tight molding.
The bulk of Cybertron's population seems to be located
near the poles of the planet, and beleive you me, are
there ever some huge buildings in those cities. In
robot mode, the detailing is more even. As impressive
as the 'bot is, the impact is taken away from a bit by
the large chunks of planet kibble hanging off the
back.
For those who are curious, Iacon is located in the
northern hemisphere (assuming north is the side of the
planet that is displayed away from the table you put
the toy on), in the detailed area that is darker than
the other northern provinces. Note the dome stucture.
Kaon/Polyhex seems to be a lone equatorian city on
the opposite side of the planet. Or, that might be an
impact crater of some kind.

For all of the aesthetic flaws with Primus, the
engineering makes up for it. Besides the mandatory
key-gimmicks (as all Cybertron toys must have), this
toy features an gimmick not used on a Transformer for
nearly 20 years-the need for a smaller piece to
transformer a larger toy. However, unlike the old
Powermaster toys, Primus does not appear to be built
around an excuse for a gimmick, rather than having the
gimmick built in.
Grade: B/C A large, and fairly expensive toy. Too
large to have grat "fiddle-value", but has too many
good points to be discounted.


Minicon Sampler:
Hookay, before anyone points it out: Yes, I know
these Minicons are going to come out as part of
Classics. But, these toys were initially intended to
come out as part of Cybertron, and their being folded
into classics is more a hasty step taken by Hasbro
than any real show of planning. Initially, these
toys were intended to be part of the "v/s packs",
rather than the old "3 pack" format. As these are the
first Minicon toys to be intentionally designed for
that kind of package, there are some notable
differences.
One: Based on what I have seen and read about the
upcoming 3 packs, the new teams have no unifying
mechanical gimmick. None of these toys were entended
to be part of a larger team. (The most obvious
example of this can be seen in early pictures of the
"Clear Skies" team.
Two: There are no molded sigils. The sigils are now
painted on, and are either Autobot, or Decepticon,
sigils.
Not having seem any of the new sets intact, I cannot
say if any of these toys are gang molded. (It usually
takes a round of recolors to determine that anyway.)

The lack of unifying gimmicks is a deterent for me
to pick up the upcoming teams in and of itself. And,
the haphazard nature of this sampler does little to
change my mind.
-Offshoot (motorcycle): This toy offers a very sleek
looking vehicle mode, and a good use of yellow and
black (ala Energon Rapid Run) and a solidly conceived
transform. Unfortunately the execution of that
transform leaves quite a bit to be desired.
Grade: D The robot cannot even stand.
-Strongarm (police car): This toy has one of the best
names I have seen on any Transformer. Think about it.
"Strongarm" as a name for a police car. This is one
of the more ambitious car transforms in from the last
few years. The designers may do well to apply this
design to a larger toy, where it can be done better.
Grade: B An (overly) ambitious) effort.
Knockdown (triceratops): This is the first Minicon
with a beast form. (Some argue that Lazerbeak takes
this prize, but Lazerbeak lacks the hardpoints a
Minicon would have.) A mediocre beast form gives way
to a quirky bot form. Grade: C Not terrible, but has
a few rought points.
Nightscream )F14): Normally, I dislike paintes sigils
on Transformers, especially on Minicons. But, here,
it works. Autobot sigils are painted on both wings.
Much like Strongarm, the transform is ambitious,
especially for the scale of the toy. But, unlike
Strongarm, this toy does not suffer for that scale
(thougt a larger toy with this engineering would be
very nice.
Grade: Best of the lot.




And yes, I agree, the script is awfully weak ("awfully" being the key word), but I've seen amazingly good solutions to problems come out of tweaks to a few key scenes, or a really smart dialogue pass. But that doesn't often help the structural problems and I feel like our waiting half the movie to see the Transformers doesn't pay off enough for me to think it was worth it.

I was thinking about it, and the major theme of this movie should be "More Than Meets The Eye". Obviously, the Transformers have multiple modes. But Spike/Sam has a hero inside him, his girl buddy isn't just a pretty face, Spike's great grandfather didn't lose his mind...etc. It we were to go with that as the theme, they could really strengthen it with one or two powerful speeches about seeing more than what's on the surface. And then, most importantly, get rid of the military-in-the-desert plot point entirely. That can just go. It's so pointless and boring.


Tossing the desert military sections would help, as there is a fair amount of action movie contrivance and stupidity there. But, it would not even come close to yeilding a good movie.

Tycho's R-rated idea is even worse than what we have so far. Besides being utterly sophmoric, it will likely repel more viewers than it brings in.

Chaddy's theme idea works better without the rousing speech.

Tycho
11-30-2006, 08:02 PM
I've always been utterly sophmoric though (Seriously, I am. There wasn't offense taken at that). Now, is there some way I can work in a gratuitous Megan Fox nude scene? Perhaps if BumbleBee has vibrating bucket seats?
Or maybe Barricade does - YES, in his cop car mode - it's used as a Decepticon interrogation technique on human females. And the hologram driver would be the ultimate voyeur - he just stares straight ahead, never blinking. Oh my! Michael Bay needs me now!

Tycho
12-01-2006, 02:23 AM
Totally changing the subject from jokes about the movie here to: the history laid out in the cartoon show.

A frind of mine on MySpace had all of the shows available for viewing on his webpage and thus I've been watching them as quickly as I can. MySpace has supposedly threatened to delete his page if he doesn't remove copyrighted materials by tomorrow.

So I've tried to watch all of Season 3 and am viewing what he had of Season 4 (the Headmasters era after The Return of Optimus Prime).

So I just watched the original G1 cartoons and they relay the Quintessons created the Transformers. What is true? I thought Primus turned himself into Cybertron - you guys told me that (El Chuxter or JT specifically I think - and trust me I respect you guys as a great source on all things Transformers.) Anyway, as Cybertron, Primus embued mechanical life in his own image to evolve on the planet.

Then the Quintessons came and enslaved them? Or the Quintessons were originally from Cyberton and build egg heads to store their personalities before they could control robots? Then the robot rebellion and the evolution of the workforce into Transformers? Do I have it?

When and on what episode is that stuff revealed - especially the Primus story?

I didn't see any of that.

El Chuxter
12-01-2006, 08:50 AM
The cartoons, Marvel comics, Dreamwave comics, and IDW comics are four totally separate continuities, Tycho.

In the cartoon, the Transformers were created by the Quintessons. The Autobots were workers, and the Decepticons were gladiators. Eventually they rose up and defeated the Quintessons. (Some notes in Marvel's TF Universe guidebook, which were based on early info from the movie script, hint strongly that the Quintessons were emissaries of Unicron. If so, the Transformers were indirectly created by Unicron.) Primus is never mentioned in this continuity.

In the Marvel comics, Unicron was a dark god who destroyed a previous universe. He wasn't thorough, though, and some remaining pieces collided, causing the Big Bang and forming our universe. Unicron awoke and began destroying again. The sentient core of the universe created a guardian, Primus (similar to the Phoenix Force in the mainstream Marvel Universe, but definitely not the Phoenix as seen in X3). Their battle was inconclusive and, to save the rest of existence, Primus trapped them both in planets. Over millennia, Unicron manipulated his prison to become the giant planet. Primus created the Transformers, mimicking Unicron's ability to change form, as a last line of defense. Only two things can stop Unicron: a truly unified force of all the Transformers, or the Matrix, which is Primus' life-force. (And this version never mentions the Quintessons. Well, not exactly. The British comics' timestream contains elements of the American 'toon and comic, and there were some crossovers, but it's too confusing to get into now.)

In that timeline, the Matrix was feared to be lost. Long story short, Prime was killed in a videogame and died in the real world (don't ask. not a high point of the series), no one knew the Matrix was a physical object, they sent it into space with his body, and it was tainted by evil. Prime surrendered to the Decepticons when he learned Unicron had found Primus' hiding place, but the alliance never quite worked (thanks to guys like Grimlock, Starscream, Shockwave, and Galvatron, who this Unicron had pulled from an alternate future and who decided to throw his lot in with the Transformers). When all looked bleakest, Thunderwing showed up, possessed by the evil Matrix. Prime was able to return it to good, flew into Unicron's maw, and destroyed him, killing himself in the process. (Don't worry. He got better in less than six months.)

Dreamwave tried to mesh a lot of elements of both timelines, but it ended up being a mess and fizzled out long before the company went under. It's implied Primus created the Transformers, and Cybertron once was conquered by the Quintessons (after it was sold out by Megatron, of all Transformers), and, just before the company folded, I think there was a shot of Unicron somehow realizing Primus still existed.

IDW is very slowly revealing elements about these big robots, but the series is still young. It's totally separate, with only the names, personalities, and general appearances of the Transformers being the same as earlier incarnations. But Simon Furman, who wrote the later Marvel issues and most of the Dreamwave stuff that didn't suck tremendously (read: The War Within series), is writing the main series, so I have a feeling the name Primus will show up sometime.

figrin bran
12-01-2006, 11:07 AM
"a collection of broken continuities" were JT's words i believe ;)

Ji'dai
12-01-2006, 12:33 PM
Has the Soundwave that transforms into the boombox like the vintage version come and gone? Was that one a TRU exclusive?

Tycho
12-01-2006, 12:55 PM
Not to ignore Ji'Dai's question (I can't answer it though - see his post above) - my thanks to El Chuxter for that detailed information!!!

Chux: what continuity do you prefer? Are the cartoons considered by the largest majority to be "cannon?" (If you can consider anything cannon?)

Is Michael Bay rebooting continuity? Any word on what he supposes the Transformers' origin is?

darthvyn
12-01-2006, 01:39 PM
i think i can say for certain that chux regards the original marvel comics as the predominant "canon" in his transformers world.

El Chuxter
12-01-2006, 02:17 PM
I think I can say darthvyn is correct. :) My friends and I more were into the comics as kids, because (until the writer, Bob Budiansky, seemed to suddenly run out of cool ideas and started giving us carp like "Car Wash of Doom") the stories were more realized, and could continue for several months. (Also, I don't think the cartoon could get away with Jazz blasting "Material Girl" as loudly as his speakers would go.) Plus, when we played with the toys, it was easier to come up with your own continuation of a comic arc that was only halfway done than a 30-minute, self-contained cartoon.

I'd recommend checking out the original series (the entire thing is collected in about a dozen or so paperbacks from Titan Books--found in large numbers at Comic-Con 50% off bins). It starts pretty weak, when it's just an ad for toys, quickly moves into overdrive when Shockwave kills all the Autobots except Ratchet and takes over the Decepticons (#4), flounders when the ideas start getting goofy in the #20s (like a Decepticon campaign to graffitti NYC--no joke--or Prime's aforementioned videogame death), picks up slightly when Grimlock returns (from an absence not explained in America, but filled in in the British comics) to take over the Autobots and coasts at "readable but not great" until Simon Furman takes over with #56 and turns it into one of the greatest sci-fi comics ever written within about three issues. (All the history of the Transformers, evil Matrix, Unicron's appearance in the comic universe, etc, was the work of Furman. I'll tell you now that I was so incredibly disgusted when a cliffhanger ending showed a full-page panel of Unicron for the first time in the comics... until I read the next issue. When he actually arrives at Cybertron a couple of years later, he commits carnage to dwarf what we saw in the movie.)

Dreamwave had two G1 mini-series, an ongoing series (that only lasted like six issues), and 2.5 series set in the far past called The War Within. The first series started in the present day, with the background supposedly being that the events of the cartoon (somehow mashed in with some comic events, which was never made clear) had happened, then the Autobots defeated the Decepticons in the early '90s and tried to go home. But their ship exploded when the Decepticons, who weren't as defeated as everyone thought, attacked and blew up the ship, scattering deactivated Transformers across the globe. A mercenary started to use them ('Bot and 'Con alike) as weapons until the US government discovered Prime's body. He used the Matrix to somehow restore all the Transformers' minds, and then there was a big pointless battle. The writing was some of the absolute worst I've ever read in any comic book. Prime didn't act like Prime, other than the fact that he was in charge, and the same with Megatron. Starscream wanted to take over, and Grimlock talked funny. Other than that, everyone was pretty much totally interchangeable. This series also scored major negative points with me when, after being restored, Grimlock decided it would be more fun to join the Decepticons and eat people. The follow-up series were readable, but not very good, and kept hinting at some sort of history that the writers were never talented enough to actually convey.

Only The War Within series (all by Furman) deserve to be remembered from Dreamwave. These are set millions of years in the past, and primarily deal with the development of Prime, Megatron, and Grimlock as emerging leaders, against the backdrop of the early days of the civil war.

IDW's series is pretty good from what I've read. I'm several issues behind, but it looks like it's starting very slowly and will keep building up to some huge battle within the next year or so.

I thought the cartoon was fun as a kid, but preferred the longer stories. I hated the movie. As an adult, I can see the cartoon as being good for what it was, and the movie is one of my all-time favorites.

Chaddymac
12-01-2006, 02:19 PM
Is Michael Bay rebooting continuity? Any word on what he supposes the Transformers' origin is?

Yes, and it's anyone's guess.


Chaddy's theme idea works better without the rousing speech.

Agreed. I don't want a rousing speech. Something like Spider-Man's "With great power comes great responsibility" or X-Men's "We're not all bad" or XMen 2's "Have you tried...not...being a mutant?" Not a "beat you over the head" thematic moment, but something subtle enough to be appreciated, yet clear enough to pull the piece together for the audience. Maybe even a moment where Spike trounces one of the Decepticons after it pontificates on the worthlessness and weakness of flesh creatures. I don't know. I'd have told a different story altogether, so it's hard to figure out where to shoe-horn that moment. Maybe a quiet moment between Prime and Spike where Prime imparts some wisdom. I don't know. Mine would've been a different movie. Again, without the military stuff. So cliche.

JediTricks
12-01-2006, 03:40 PM
Something I've been meaning to point out, on wave 2's packaging, it says "Licensed from TOMY Company, Ltd." rather than Takara, whom Tomy bought last year. I can't believe after 22 years, Takara's finally a dead name! They can never truly be classics now! :cry: ;)


"a collection of broken continuities" were JT's words i believe ;)A tapestry. :D



Has the Soundwave that transforms into the boombox like the vintage version come and gone? Was that one a TRU exclusive?Comes out this month, any day now, and all the reissues were/are TRU exclusives. I wish I had preordered it online back when it would have meant something, now I feel like it's better to risk finding it at the store than being the 1,000,000th preorder on the website. Just search soundwave at TRU's website, first one that comes up, you can't miss it.



Chux: what continuity do you prefer? Are the cartoons considered by the largest majority to be "cannon?" (If you can consider anything cannon?)I've found that Transfans kinda pick & choose pieces of the cartoon and the Marvel comics for their canon, which itself really means it's NOT canon but they seem to generally agree on it none the less.


Is Michael Bay rebooting continuity? Any word on what he supposes the Transformers' origin is?Bay will not be respecting any continuity to prior elements, he'll be borrowing from a few various ones and making it up. Whether it will be a true reboot to TFs is up to Hasbro though, and how they run with it. Already we've seen that Hasbro is ignoring some of the movie's elements though.

Tycho
12-01-2006, 04:46 PM
Here's Masterpiece 05 Megatron! - finished and in full color - with an interesting accessory, too. (He ought to come with his handgun form Trans-scale that was also included with Prime, but...)

This does look good!

El Chuxter
12-01-2006, 04:57 PM
Okay, I don't remember that little... thing.

Tycho
12-01-2006, 05:35 PM
Okay, I don't remember that little... thing.

It was in one of the G1 cartoons and took over a Transformer (or there were more than 1 of them) and made them crazy. In Megatron or Starscream's cases, it made them crazier than they already were. But I think it also made Prime and other key Autobots bad guys for part of an episode, or even a 2-parter.

Many of the times they used these external plot entities from these Sparks to biological beasts etc. I loathed it. I thought there was enough source material with the robots to keep them busy rather than have Metroplex fighting Mothma and Rodan (traditional Godzilla enemies).

But sparky was in an episode or two.

Chaddymac
12-01-2006, 05:42 PM
Okay, I don't remember that little... thing.

Dude, it's Kremzeek!! The loveable, destructive little intelligent electrical surge from perhaps one of the most drug-induced episodes of Season 2. I have no idea why he's packaged with Megatron, but it makes me laugh and that's a good thing.


Here's Masterpiece 05 Megatron! - finished and in full color - with an interesting accessory, too. (He ought to come with his handgun form Trans-scale that was also included with Prime, but...)

That's digi-painted, for anyone curious.

For anyone still curious, he also comes with the laser cutter and pistol from the movie (during the battle with Prime) as well as the energon mace from the pilot 3 parter ("More Than Meets The Eye") which works perfectly with Prime's energon axe. Very cool. Oh, wait, I have pics :)

JediTricks
12-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Check it out, someone customized their Classics Megatron into his G1 colors, and stripped him of his wings:
http://www.transformersclassics.com/gallery/Customs-Decepticons-Megatron/imgp0099cm5

Alt mode is a total cheat now though, and I think they went TOO simple with the paint there, but bot mode looks great.

Chaddymac
12-04-2006, 03:19 PM
Check it out, someone customized their Classics Megatron into his G1 colors, and stripped him of his wings:
http://www.transformersclassics.com/gallery/Customs-Decepticons-Megatron/imgp0099cm5

Alt mode is a total cheat now though, and I think they went TOO simple with the paint there, but bot mode looks great.
how is it a cheat? because the wings are kibble? Yeah...I can see that, but man, those colors are hot. I may decide to do that one of these days when I'm through with all of my other pet projects.

Tycho
12-04-2006, 05:50 PM
Honestly, it looks great! - actually better than the original G1 in robot mode.

Dominic Guglieme
12-04-2006, 08:02 PM
I truncated much of this.




I'd recommend checking out the original series (the entire thing is collected in about a dozen or so paperbacks from Titan Books--found in large numbers at Comic-Con 50% off bins). It starts pretty weak, when it's just an ad for toys, quickly moves into overdrive when Shockwave kills all the Autobots except Ratchet and takes over the Decepticons (#4), flounders when the ideas start getting goofy in the #20s (like a Decepticon campaign to graffitti NYC--no joke--or Prime's aforementioned videogame death), picks up slightly when Grimlock returns (from an absence not explained in America, but filled in in the British comics) to take over the Autobots and coasts at "readable but not great" until Simon Furman takes over with #56 and turns it into one of the greatest sci-fi comics ever written within about three issues. (All the history of the Transformers, evil Matrix, Unicron's appearance in the comic universe, etc, was the work of Furman. I'll tell you now that I was so incredibly disgusted when a cliffhanger ending showed a full-page panel of Unicron for the first time in the comics... until I read the next issue. When he actually arrives at Cybertron a couple of years later, he commits carnage to dwarf what we saw in the movie.)

Dreamwave had two G1 mini-series, an ongoing series (that only lasted like six issues), and 2.5 series set in the far past called The War Within. The first series started in the present day, with the background supposedly being that the events of the cartoon (somehow mashed in with some comic events, which was never made clear) had happened, then the Autobots defeated the Decepticons in the early '90s and tried to go home. But their ship exploded when the Decepticons, who weren't as defeated as everyone thought, attacked and blew up the ship, scattering deactivated Transformers across the globe. A mercenary started to use them ('Bot and 'Con alike) as weapons until the US government discovered Prime's body. He used the Matrix to somehow restore all the Transformers' minds, and then there was a big pointless battle. The writing was some of the absolute worst I've ever read in any comic book. Prime didn't act like Prime, other than the fact that he was in charge, and the same with Megatron. Starscream wanted to take over, and Grimlock talked funny. Other than that, everyone was pretty much totally interchangeable. This series also scored major negative points with me when, after being restored, Grimlock decided it would be more fun to join the Decepticons and eat people. The follow-up series were readable, but not very good, and kept hinting at some sort of history that the writers were never talented enough to actually convey.

Only The War Within series (all by Furman) deserve to be remembered from Dreamwave. These are set millions of years in the past, and primarily deal with the development of Prime, Megatron, and Grimlock as emerging leaders, against the backdrop of the early days of the civil war.



The generation 1 comic was hit or miss. Budiansky running out of steam was a huge problem, and common to his work. (Remember "Sleepwalker" anyone?) Furman's strong showing (both in G1 and G2) was as much the guidance of Rob Tokar as editor than Furman's unbound talents. Furman has written some clunkers. Read some of his pre-Tokar UK stories.

The best thing about Furman's Unicron (in any series) is that the characters never treat him as a "seen it and beaten it". In both G1 and Armada, everybody freezes when they see Unicron and realize what it is-something fully capable of rending their planet asunder. Even without the psuedo profound mysticism Furman likes, that is pretty daunting. Furman's Unicron is not quite Stalin's Thanos and Warlock, but it comes close.

Chux has made a few mistakes in summarizing the Dreamwave years. This is understandable, as Dreamwave stumbles over its own continuity more than once. The exploding ship had more than one cause, depending on which series one reads. Characters appear in more than one place at a time, and have multiple origins. War Within was a guilty as any other DW book of this. War Within II was much better than the first, as it was more idea based, and relied far less on Easter Eggs to tell a story. The second Generation one series is also better than the first. For all of its continuity problems, it avoids the childish errors of the first series, especially the last issue. (The US does not have defense ministers, and our defense officials do not wear military regalia, nor do Canadian officials.)

IDW is ranging from pure fanwank to self-indulgent decompression. Other than the Shockwave one-shot, I can think of nothing worthwhile that IDW has published.

figrin bran
12-04-2006, 09:48 PM
so where's the review of Classics Grimlock, JT?

if it's just a matter of doing repaints, i think i'll try a custom classics Megs as well as repainting starscream into thundercracker and skywarp.

JediTricks
12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
how is it a cheat? because the wings are kibble? Yeah...I can see that, but man, those colors are hot. I may decide to do that one of these days when I'm through with all of my other pet projects.Because the wings WERE kibble to begin with, but once they come off they become shell parts a la Pretenders which is as cheaty as it can get.


Transformers Classics Grimlock - an interesting set of choices, not all successful, and some stuff feels abandoned like why the stalk holding the gun on his back folds ALL the way over. Alt mode is decent, well-balanced dino mode with some good coloring, and I love the light-piped eyes here. Tail is horizontally-hinged in 4 places. The rubsign is on the upper left side of the dino chest, the only Classics figure sculpted to accomodate the rubsign sticker. I do wish the paint wash was everywhere rather than just upper body, the head can only raise and open jaw, cannot turn, and gun on back is doofy but the stalk isn't movable, also it's annoying that the hips aren't locked down. Transformation is decent but a little too much stuff getting in the way of other stuff, I do like the chest rotation gimmick though. Very annoyed with the tabs above the shoulders, they don't line up with the shoulders' notches on mine.

Bot mode looks big and tough by itself, but is actually not all that big next to other Deluxes. Head and chest feel somehow lesser-than, good but not "Classics" good, kind of plain and incomplete, and the light-piped visor just seems like such a step backwards in execution. Shoulders don't lock down which gets very annoying. Forearms are very fat, open from the top which sucks, ridiculously stubby and have the dino feet hanging off the back (why is it so common in the Classics line to just dump kibble off the forearms? Bumblebee, Astrotrain, Optimus, and now Grimlock, that's half the figs here); upper arms fare better but the screw holes in the shoulders are facing forwards. Legs look good although a lot of shell behind the inside of the legs, dino head as feet takes some getting used to. Weapons are alright but nothing great, they can be stowed on his back at the same time. Articulation is pretty good with head, shoulders, hinge-out mid-shoulders, swivel biceps, hinged elbows, rotating upper torso (though limited by kibble), ball-jointed hips, hinged knees, and the feet have some adjustability from transformation. There's lots of poseability, though most poses don't look as good as they could due to his blocky nature and tons of kibble.

Overall, a good figure with a few too many flaws to hold up as a shining beacon, certainly not the second coming of the Dinobots. He's an oddity, he's not a great display bot but he's also got some problems that might hinder play potential, so he's got fiddling potential but doesn't shine anywhere else. Best way to put it, he's middle-of-the-road... Grade: B-

JediTricks
12-05-2006, 06:03 PM
Movie Brawl, Barricade, & Bumblebee bot mode toy photos:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Transformers-movie-Brawl-test-shot-in-hand_W0QQitemZ280057172017QQihZ018QQcategoryZ753QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Transformers-movie-Barricade-test-shot-in-hand_W0QQitemZ280057173975QQihZ018QQcategoryZ753QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Transformers-movie-Bumblebee-test-shot-in-hand_W0QQitemZ280057174722QQihZ018QQcategoryZ753QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not seeing it at all with these bots, Bumblebee's legs auto-transform? That'd explain the gearing and the emptiness. Barricade's arms spring out, and I hate his arms, chest, and the head seems all wrong. Brawl's so fat and weird looking I can't even imagine him not being severely mistransformed in those shots, yet I fear he's not that far off.

Tycho
12-05-2006, 06:25 PM
Thank you for posting the links to the pictures, JediTricks.

The next few venimous statements have nothing to do with JT. I am about to wail on these pieces of something-I-can't-type-here.

They suck @$$!

They eat #$#$!

I'd rather buy dog crap - at least I could throw the dog poo at someone I didn't like (or the movie screen on 7/04/07).

I'm not buying these.

And I'm proud to be an Alternator fan!

Make an Alternator out of Bumblebee with the 2007 Camarro license.

Repaint Wheeljack with a new head and make him Barricade (I don't care about the discrepancies, the former sculpt looks better than anything out of Michael Bay's movie).

Create a huge MPE of Brawl and articulate it right.

That's what I'll buy.

So far, I just hope I enjoy the movie, the story proponing that, not this new look for the Autobots and Decepticons.

Dominic Guglieme
12-05-2006, 06:40 PM
Thoughts on the movie toys:

I generally like 'em. That police car woudl carry the day if not for the terrible looking lil' bot (Soundwave?). The tank is the least impressive, but provided it is not more than a deluxe, I will likely grab it. Bumblebee looks liek fun.

Oh, and the police car's hands look great. :yes:


On another note: Here are some Minicons musings.




For the last 4 years, Minicons have been a consistent presence in Transformer lines. Most recently, some fans have noted that Classics toys have hard-points for attaching Minicons. And, the idea of Minicons seems to have found a home in the Classics line, albeit as repacked toys that where initially slated for release in Cybertron.


The current Classics line has a number of toys with hard-points, and (as mentioned above) there are several Minicon teams sold under the Classics banner. However, these new Minicons lack the unified mechanics of the old Minicon teams. All told, this is a deterent, as the unified mechanics lent to the impression that the Minicons where a cohesive toy unto themselves, rather than simply 3 randomly packed toys.

Up until Cybertron, Minicon teams (sold in packs of 3) all had a unified mechanical aesthetic. (Note: Sometimes members of teams were recolored and sold seperately, most notably with the above mentioned Transmetals.) The following is a list of all Minicon teams released in the US, on a single card, throught he Cybertron line. (In other words, do not look for Blackout or Sparkplug on this list.) The primary category is mechanical gimmick, with the best team using that gimmick being listed first. Recolors are only listed seperately if the recolor is a different character, or has a new team designation.

---Armada---
Combining: Team members are components of a larger toy.
-Street Speed Team: 3 smaller 'bots merge into a fairly well balanced whole. Arguably the smallest merge team, with the combined bot being smaller than many scouts.
-Air Assault/Air Defense Team: 3 jets merge into a sword with a near universally useable handle.
-Space Team: A satellite, a rocket and a transport vehicle merge to form a rifle. Arguably, this team also incorporates firing a missile as a gimmick, but the dominant trait is still combining.
Race Team/Road Assault Team: 3 race-track appropriate vehicles combine into either a shield or a glider (depending one which source one uses.
Gears: Individual Minicons all have some kind of gimmick activated by a gear wheel.
-Adventure Team: A snowplow, an off-road truck and a buggy. The truck has tiny shocks to prevent the gear from turning too far when the truck is being pushed forward.
-Destruction Team: Three fanciful military/demolition vehicles.
Articulation/Complexity: The designers attempted to design these toys to be comparable with larger ones.
-Street Speed Team: 3 cars make up the the only time this gimmick was used in Armada. Despite innovative designs, the scale of the toys simply did not lend itself to the attempted complexity.
Triplechanging: As the name implies, each Minicon has 3 forms, robot, vehicle, and equipment.
-Air Military Team: 3 planes become weapons for larger Transformers
-Rescue Team: same ideas as above, but using emergency/rescue vehicles.
Firing Missiles: Using a varient of mechanisms, each toy had a firing weapon.
-Land Military/Night Attack Team: 3 tanks using a variety of transforme aesthetics. One is also noteable for being complex for the scale.
-Sea Team: 3 boats all w/ firing missiles.

---Energon---
Combining:
-Street Action Team: a newly redesigned variant of the previous characters to use this name.
-Energon Saber: Re-tools of the Air Defense/Air Assualt teams, combining to form a sword.
The Energon line also included repacked Sea and Adventure Teams on a combined card. Additionally, there was a recolor of the Space Team sold with a very rare Ultra Magnus toy. Aside from the Adventure and Sea Teams, all of the Energon teams where combiners.

---Cybertron---
This marks the first time that Minicon teams did not all have a unified mechanical trait.
Articulation/Complexity:
-Street Speed Team: retools of the previous use of the names. There are some slight mechanical changes to the molds, making the toys a bit sturdier.
Aesthetics:
-Giant Planet Minicon Team: There are no unified mechanics on this team. But, there is a vague "large things made small" theme and a "land, sea and air" theme.
no unified theme:
-Recon Minicon Team/Shadow Recon Team: there is no apparent unified mechanism to these teams.
There where also a number of double packs, each using 2 older Minicon molds from older teams.

Where the Giant Planet Minicons and the Recon Teams just a fluke, it would be one thing. But, it seems that the current standard for Minicons is to simply pack 3 vaguely related toys in one blister. In some cases, such as the Clear Skies Team, the aesthetics are only loosely unified. Ironically, the Minicons packaged under Classics lack the defining traits of the old Minicon teams.

plasticfetish
12-05-2006, 10:19 PM
I know it's too early to judge, but I'm not terribly excited (though it would take a brick of C-4 at this point) by the movie line. If those are "test shots" though, the paint may change. (Though test shots wouldn't be painted at all, so those are production samples maybe?)

Just the same... YAWN! I didn't know what to expect from Hasbro with this line, but it looks like they're not trying too terribly hard. Wonder if they think they can get away with a ho-hum line because it has a movie tie-in.


On another note: Here are some Minicons musings.

That reminds me, I was looking at pics of Diaclones, and noticed/remembered how "Skids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UwMa9eC5wI)" came with a mini vehicle (a scooter.)

Tycho
12-06-2006, 12:10 AM
Wonder if they think they can get away with a ho-hum line because it has a movie tie-in.

I bet that's exactly what they're thinking. It's the price point for mass kid purchases, less "what they can get away with" (as far as low quality range).

Michael Bay's look for the robots isn't that inspiring in the first place unless they can produce $250 Transformers for adults with over 100 steps required to transform them (metal parts preferred). Then it wouldn't be inspiring in terms of the movie anyway, but a unique collectible curiousity nevertheless.

Anyway, I agree with PlasticFetish's asessment of the situation.

My thoughts are that if the movie is a hit (not necessarily good - but just large enough at the box office), Takara/Tomy/Hasbro might consider higher end versions of these bots (Alternators and MPEs) and then I might jump into the market.

We all know I need to say this for only the 100th time, but Barricade and Ironhide could be really inexpensive to alter some of the work they've already done, and with the Chevy license (see Tracks for one) doing BumbleBee as a 2007 Camarro seems natural for the Alternator line anyway.

JediTricks
12-06-2006, 03:12 PM
Movie Scorponok toy painted sample pics:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280057587612

What is this, a "special needs" Transformer? This thing looks totally ridiculous, that face with the 4 bug eyes is laughable and that transformation seems pretty simplistic. The only thing that looks interesting to me is the spinning core.


That police car woudl carry the day if not for the terrible looking lil' bot (Soundwave?). That'd be Frenzy, but I don't think it's him, I think it's part of his alt mode grill and not a stereo. I don't know how you can find anything positive to say about this ugly mess though, the hood may have an interesting transformation but the rest looks awful, whole halves of the car becoming arms?!? I'm shocked you're giving this Barricade figure any credit whatsoever.



If those are "test shots" though, the paint may change. (Though test shots wouldn't be painted at all, so those are production samples maybe?)These are definitely painted production samples, possibly even plucked from the active factory line.


Just the same... YAWN! I didn't know what to expect from Hasbro with this line, but it looks like they're not trying too terribly hard. Wonder if they think they can get away with a ho-hum line because it has a movie tie-in.Yeah, these entries really feel like a lost cause, Hasbro doesn't want to mimic too closely the movie style which I can relate to, but by half-arsing it like this they've just let it get sloppy and sad. I doubt they're phoning it in though.

I'm not seeing the mini vehicle in the video you linked.



I bet that's exactly what they're thinking. It's the price point for mass kid purchases, less "what they can get away with" (as far as low quality range).I highly doubt it, these appear to be deluxes, the $10-$12 pricepoint, and these appear to have more paint apps and pieces than most other TF deluxes of the last 10 years. I suspect they're trying to do their best to get the most sales possible as this is their big chance.

Chaddymac
12-06-2006, 05:41 PM
Movie Scorponok toy painted sample pics:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280057587612

What is this, a "special needs" Transformer? This thing looks totally ridiculous, that face with the 4 bug eyes is laughable and that transformation seems pretty simplistic. The only thing that looks interesting to me is the spinning core.

That'd be Frenzy, but I don't think it's him, I think it's part of his alt mode grill and not a stereo. I don't know how you can find anything positive to say about this ugly mess though, the hood may have an interesting transformation but the rest looks awful, whole halves of the car becoming arms?!? I'm shocked you're giving this Barricade figure any credit whatsoever.


These are definitely painted production samples, possibly even plucked from the active factory line.

Yeah, these entries really feel like a lost cause, Hasbro doesn't want to mimic too closely the movie style which I can relate to, but by half-arsing it like this they've just let it get sloppy and sad. I doubt they're phoning it in though.

I'm not seeing the mini vehicle in the video you linked.


I highly doubt it, these appear to be deluxes, the $10-$12 pricepoint, and these appear to have more paint apps and pieces than most other TF deluxes of the last 10 years. I suspect they're trying to do their best to get the most sales possible as this is their big chance.
I'd also like to comment that at BotCon they mentioned that the movie line would follow a similar conceit as the Beast Machines line, in that there would be multiple pricepoints for the same character. I anticipate this being the deluxe line, with larger, more complicated, more detailed figures to come.

The fact that Bumblebee doesn't have actual windows astounds me. I'm given hope only by what they said at Botcon. Because I've always been a fan of the movie designs.

Dominic Guglieme
12-08-2006, 04:39 PM
Putting aside my misgivings about the movie, the toys are not that bad looking. I think back to Armada, and how people complained. Many of the toys where objectively good, and the fans came around. I am looking forward to grabbing a Barricade and Brawl, and yes, Bumblebee. And, will review them as is fit. But, I will fiddle with them a bit first.

I do agree though, with the idea that Hasbro does not seem to be trying as hard as one might hope. As a whole, the movie venture is likely to be one of the biggest lost opportunities for the franchise, ever.


I know it's too early to judge, but I'm not terribly excited (though it would take a brick of C-4 at this point) by the movie line. If those are "test shots" though, the paint may change. (Though test shots wouldn't be painted at all, so those are production samples maybe?)

Just the same... YAWN! I didn't know what to expect from Hasbro with this line, but it looks like they're not trying too terribly hard. Wonder if they think they can get away with a ho-hum line because it has a movie tie-in.



That reminds me, I was looking at pics of Diaclones, and noticed/remembered how "Skids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UwMa9eC5wI)" came with a mini vehicle (a scooter.)

kool-aid killer
12-08-2006, 05:08 PM
I found Classics Grimlock and Jetfire today at a Target. Jetfire looks awesome, i like how his helmet can be removed. Nice figure. Grimlock looks cool too, aside from the peg on his back that holds his "guardian blaster." Good haul today, as i didnt go in to the store expecting to see either of these two.

JediTricks
12-08-2006, 09:05 PM
Picked these up at TRU last night, I've kinda run out of time for now so I'll just do preliminary comments...

Transformers Classics Dinobot Minicon Team - decent minicon set, each figure has something clever going on which I like, even if none of the figures are perfect. Even better, each one has a transformation scheme like I've never seen before in any Transformer, so that's nifty. Prelim Grade: B

Transformers Classics Destruction Minicon Team - a tank with 2 construction vehicles is silly, but taking the team aspect out it's an ok set. Each has a unique tranformation aspect, but the tank guy while interesting is also bizarre and can barely stand. I do like the dump truck guy though. Prelim Grade: C+

Transformers Classics Jetfire - among the top entries in this short line, Jetfire has a lot of toy to offer even if he's not totally perfect. The homage is fantastic but he's also cool on his own. Removable armor is great, FASTpacks and the removable helmet work just right. Great fig overall, the only things holding it back are the exposed fists in vehicle mode, a lack of bicep and thigh swivels, and the cockpit front of the bot chest not locking into place. Very very cool though. Prelim Grade: A-



The fact that Bumblebee doesn't have actual windows astounds me. I'm given hope only by what they said at Botcon. Because I've always been a fan of the movie designs.I can accept that Bumblebee doesn't have clear windows, but really, ultra-metallic blue?!? That's just stupid, paint 'em glossy black and move on, don't pull crap like this.



I think back to Armada, and how people complained. Many of the toys where objectively good, and the fans came around. Not really, the early comments on Armada were Hot Shot, Demolishor, Cyclonus, Role-play Laserbeak, Red Alert, Starscream, Megatron, and Optimus. Half of those entries do not hold up today and deserve the scorn they initially received, Hot Shot and Cyclonus in particular are savage disappointments. It's the line's later entries that salvaged any minor place it has in TF collecting, and the general concensus on the line is still quite unfavorable.

plasticfetish
12-08-2006, 09:22 PM
Saw Classics Jetfire and Grimlock at Target last night. Came very close to picking one of them up, but I held off. I'm liking this classics line... just not sure I need to be spending money on Transformers right now. :ermm:


I'm not seeing the mini vehicle in the video you linked.I know... I looked again and noticed that it wasn't even in there. So I did something that I'm not likely to do very often. I flat scanned from my precious vintage Takara Toys book. (Images below. You can see the scooter, and a Diaclone driver riding on it.)

Tycho
12-08-2006, 09:27 PM
I looked at a lot of pictures of Alternator Ravage that I'd never seen before over at TFW2005 or whatever the site is called. He's coming along nicely. Forum members there and myself are still hoping they do a little more to clean up the kibble. A cat is a much harder form to sculpt out of a car. But I'm excited about him and Rumble.

plasticfetish
12-08-2006, 10:35 PM
...and speaking of Megatron. ;) Have you guys seen this?

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10668&mode=retail

Tycho
12-08-2006, 11:25 PM
Yes. I'm thinking it over.

I don't like handguns that are bigger than semi-trucks any longer. Tradition be damned.

If I do go for it, I want to be prepared to sacrafice $100 for nothing, because I don't want an orange tip added to my gun barrel.

BBTS is a retailer that has to import a lot of these and it'd be taking thousands of dollars in losses if they have trouble with customs.

I could only lose $100. I might take my chances.

Again, I'm in no hurry to order this one, as it's a Transformer, but it transforms into a huge gun (comparable to my other Transformers).

I'm very picky as I wasn't going to collect these at all, but SideSwipe and MPE Prime talked me into it, and I've bought a very select 10 or so thus far.

A MPE Megatron as a Cybertronian Jet or a Tank, or Humvee, would please me most.

El Chuxter
12-09-2006, 11:40 AM
Transformers Classics Jetfire - Great fig overall, the only things holding it back are the exposed fists in vehicle mode, a lack of bicep and thigh swivels, and the cockpit front of the bot chest not locking into place. Prelim Grade: A-

Funny, mine didn't have a problem with the cockpit locking in place. You're only the second person I know to have picked him up, though, so I'm not sure which of us has a fluke. :confused:

JediTricks
12-09-2006, 07:58 PM
Saw Classics Jetfire and Grimlock at Target last night. Came very close to picking one of them up, but I held off. I'm liking this classics line... just not sure I need to be spending money on Transformers right now. :ermm::eek: You made the wrong choice passing up Jetfire!!!


I know... I looked again and noticed that it wasn't even in there. So I did something that I'm not likely to do very often. I flat scanned from my precious vintage Takara Toys book. (Images below. You can see the scooter, and a Diaclone driver riding on it.)Ah, that explains it. Thanks for the scan, Very cool! Hasbro should have brought the scooter to the US, called it "Roller Jr" or something. ;) BTW, if you have a digital camera, photographing books is better than scanning for these purposes, not only will you not risk busting the spine but you won't get as much moire pattern.


Yeah, I seen that BBTS thing, I'm still mulling it over, $100 feels too steep for this mold but I am tempted, I may try to pick one up from a different importer who isn't going to foul it with blaze orange paint or plugs. I am not put off by it being an oversized gun, I can think of it as sized for a real-life Transformer - no way in hell Starscream would be able to wield a real Walther P38, not even with 1 finger.



That's weird Chux, I don't even see HOW yours could lock into place.

Did anybody notice that Jetfire has a tiny instrument panel in the cockpit just behind the hinge at the front? Great addition!

figrin bran
12-09-2006, 10:29 PM
I finally found and picked up Classics Mirage from TRU. and for only $9.99 too! it wouldn't scan and so the cashier had someone bring a TF Cybertron sticker to scan. that someone was actually a local scalper's (dirty sanchez) inside man and so i wasn't sorry at all for their mistake.

JediTricks
12-10-2006, 07:32 PM
Haw, that's awesome! Especially since TRU's jacked up the price on Classics to $12.99 at some stores. :eek: When DA stashed that one at Target Pasadena for me, when it rang up it was $8.99, they hadn't put up signs yet for the sale.

Anyway, glad to hear you got it. What's your opinion of the actual toy?

figrin bran
12-10-2006, 08:51 PM
JT, that's what they get for not knowing their merchandise! ;)

i was fortunate enough to find Grimlock today and so i'm opening him and Mirage right now.

edit: i accidently fired off Grimlock's rocket and now i can't find it. oh well, it's alright...that weapon on his back in alt mode is lame anyways. overall, i think it wasn't as well done as 10th anniversary BW megatron. among other issues, the shoulders are too large and the tail should be longer.

Mirage, on the other hand, is perhaps the sleeper of the classics line thus far. i don't like the skinny waist and so i just leave the front fins (the "electro disruptor weapon") on to cover it up.

seanmcfripp
12-12-2006, 11:44 AM
I found Jetfire, Mirage, and Grimlock last week, and after a few days of tinkering and noodling with them, I'll give my two cent review for anyone that's still on the fence.


Jetfire
I'll just come right out and say that it's one of my favorite toys of all time, hands down. I know, I know, you're probably saying "Whoa, slow down there fella, you guys just met, and you already got in the sack together. Now you're talking marriage? Stop with the crazy talk." Maybe it's puppy love, but I don't care. As a toy collector, this thing scratches me right where I itch. Of course I still have plenty to gripe about, but overall this is the best I've felt about plunking down $20 for a toy in a while. For the sake of helping others make a decision, I'll focus on some of Jetfire's more questionable aspects:

- Battle Helmet: The helmet sucks. The design is spot on (very accurate to Stormbringer), but it's just WAY too big. If Jetfire was a stand alone toy outside of the Transformers line, the helmet probably wouldn't look so bad. But when you put him in with the rest of the Classics, or any other TF from the last two years, his noggin looks ridiculous. On the other hand, he looks fantasic without the helmet, so no big loss really. The gun/antannae look of the helmet is probably more iconic, but his helmet-less look totally does it for me. You can even leave the helmet off in jet mode, and the gaps normally occupied by the gun stalks look just fine.

- Fairy Wings: If you follow Hasbro's instructions to get Jetfire into robot mode, he ends up looking a bit mothy. Don't get me wrong, he looks about as close as you could get to a 3-D Stormbringer version, but having the wings up contributes to the form of a figure that already borders on being fat and stumpy. Luckily, the wings can be positioned in a number of ways, so you can pick their orientation. I prefer them to be one "click" up from the fully retracted position.

- Articulation: No "bicep" or "thigh" rotation, which isn't too horribly terribly awful, but it is a pain. I can live with no bicep cut because his primary weapon doesn't really require a two-handed pose, but the lack of thigh cuts is almost a deal breaker. He looks fine in a neutral standing pose, but the minute you go for something more dynamic, he starts looking weird and stumpy. I think the problem is the funky pseudo-ball joints at the hips, where two ratchety joints are combined to do the work of one ball joint. The top joint goes 90 degrees out, but then another joint is situated just below that goes 90 degrees forward or backwards, a design choice which basically "shortens" the appearance of the length of the thigh when the the leg is moved forward or backward. So, like I said, he looks well proportioned in a standing pose, but a bit short and stumpy in most other poses. Again, it's not the worst thing in the world, but it's just enough to make you mad.

- Chest locking into place: Hmm, I actually don't have this problem. There are two little pegs on the bottom of the cockpit that match up nicely with two little slots on the main body. It by no means "locks" into place, but it isn't exactly falling out of place either. For me to say it's a problem, it'd have to be like Energon Superion, where Stormjet's shallow peg vs. deep socket issue caused lots of floppiness. Jetfire is tight and sturdy in my opinion.

Those few issues aside, it's a fantastic toy. The flip-out cannons are a particularly nice touch. I like gimmicky play features like this when they're subtle and efficiently executed. The forearm missile launchers are also nicely understated, yet just as effective as some of the more clunky and unwieldy spring loaded BFGs we've seen over the years. Jetfire's a keeper.


Mirage
I can't really say a bad thing about Mirage, and he ties Megatron for second place as my favorite Classic so far, Jetfire being number one. I absolutely love the propotions of his robot mode. I like when a designer gets a good feel for a TF's character, takes the best lines from the alt mode, then runs with it when creating the robot form. Mirage looks totally swanky, and it's fantastic. I can assure you, the waist is not an issue, and he holds together nicely. Articulation is top notch. I wish the head moved side to side a little smoother, and I'd have liked the wheels on his back to be less kibbley, but all in all, Mirage is solid.


Grimlock
I think I'm in the minority when I say Grimlock is the weakest Classics entry so far. There's a lot about him that tries to be right, but so much ends up being wrong and poorly executed, which is quite frustrating. Here's the dirty laundry list:

- Paint wash: All of the other classics have a clean, crisp finish, yet for some reason, Grimlock has this funky black wash paint application. To make matters worse, it only covers about a third of his body, which makes the clean parts stand out in a bad way. Grimmy stands out in the Classics crowd, and I don't like it.

- Dino head feet: I can appreciate a designer going for something new, or adding a new twist to an outdated transformation design, but I don't like when a design choice compromises the impression left by a character's physical appearance. One of the defining physical characteristics of G1 Grimlock's robot form for me are his big stompy lower legs, something totally lost with the new Classics version. Instead of looking grounded and impenetrable, he now leaves me with an impression of being nimble and almost fragile, at least below the knees. It's an interesting look and design, but not one that's appropriate for Grimlock. I wish whoever worked on the Alternators version of Grimmy had maybe had a hand in designing the Classics version. I love Alt Grimlock's big stompy legs.

- Deluxe size: Grimlock should have been a Mega, and as a Deluxe, he's way too small.

- Weapon: Besides having dinosaur alt modes, I always thought the red sword theme nicely tied the Dinobots together as a team. Melee weapons seem to fit the Dinobot combat MO, so for me, their swords are the most iconic of all their weapons. Needless to say, I'm disappointed that Classics Grimmy doesn't have a sword. The bayonet is a nice try, but no cigar. Score another one for Alt Grimlock.

- Shoulder tabs/hip lock: He's not exactly the most sturdy TF I've ever handled. The shoulder tabs that are supposed to lock everything into place are mis-aligned. Everyone seems to be griping about it, so I don't think you can blame isolated QC incidents. The hips don't lock in any meaningful way in dino mode, which is also frustrating.

There are just too many problems with Grimlock for me to recommend him. I want more Grimlock in my Grimlock, and I'm just not getting it with this version.

JediTricks
12-12-2006, 07:48 PM
On Jetfire, one of the things that's come to annoy me is the choice of stops on the side-ratcheting hips, the only choices allotted are straight down or ridiculously wide - it seems like the designers have been goofing a lot on ratchet points the last 5 years or so.


All fair points about Grimlock, especially that he should have been a Mega. He's not my least-favorite figure in the line, Astrotrain and both 2pack molds have less to offer and Starscream is lacking as well, but they should have done Grimmy a lot better. And your point about the head-feet, that's the first argument I've seen about that aspect that feels completely true, others have been more dubious, but he DOES need big stompy feet. I get the feeling that the wide kibble on the leg could have been those big stompy feet if the designers had more toy to work with.

figrin bran
12-12-2006, 09:34 PM
i wouldn't say Grimlock was the most disappointing but it is disappointing nonetheless. among the issues that have been raised already, i wish they would've not put in that stalk on which to mount the weapon in dino mode.

still, i would love to see more Dinobots in the classics line. i believe there's a pteranodon toy in the Cybertron line so why not repaint that one as Swoop? of course i say that blindly without having really examined that toy and deciding whether it's really worth repainting. however, they can't do worse for dinosaur TF's than the kibblefest that is BW Dinobot in alt mode.

seanmcfripp
12-13-2006, 09:48 AM
On Jetfire, one of the things that's come to annoy me is the choice of stops on the side-ratcheting hips, the only choices allotted are straight down or ridiculously wide - it seems like the designers have been goofing a lot on ratchet points the last 5 years or so.

I'm right there with you on the poorly oriented ratchet stops on TFs over the last few years, but Jetfire's seem ok to me. Energon Shockblast is a good example of what you're talking about, or Energon Bulkhead. Even Classics Megs suffers a bit, but fortunately is offest by a good range of neck articulation. You can achieve a nice neutral pose by bumping one of the legs out a "click", and cocking the head slightly to make him look balanced and level. Trouble is that most TFs don't have decent neck joints to pull it off, Megs is the exception.

Here's a pic of Jetfire in a nice neutral pose, each leg looks to be one "click" outward:
http://www.seibertron.com/toys/fullsize.php?id=1040&size=1&image=67

My Jetfire holds that pose without any problem as well. Maybe yours is different for some reason.

Tycho
12-13-2006, 11:11 AM
Jetfire looks sweet!

JediTricks
12-13-2006, 04:09 PM
I think it's funny that we all think Jetfire's helmet head is too big when if he were a human it'd be way underscaled. :p


i wouldn't say Grimlock was the most disappointing but it is disappointing nonetheless. among the issues that have been raised already, i wish they would've not put in that stalk on which to mount the weapon in dino mode. That's a pretty common complaint, I wouldn't mind it if it could fold away, but alas...


still, i would love to see more Dinobots in the classics line. i believe there's a pteranodon toy in the Cybertron line so why not repaint that one as Swoop? of course i say that blindly without having really examined that toy and deciding whether it's really worth repainting. however, they can't do worse for dinosaur TF's than the kibblefest that is BW Dinobot in alt mode.TF:CY Brimstone is alright, the weird yellow is no good but the figure is decent - needs a better paintjob though, especially to fill in a few areas that are a tad plain. The sculpt almost fits the aesthetic too, but he's bigger than Grimlock which wouldn't work.



Here's a pic of Jetfire in a nice neutral pose, each leg looks to be one "click" outward:
http://www.seibertron.com/toys/fullsize.php?id=1040&size=1&image=67

My Jetfire holds that pose without any problem as well. Maybe yours is different for some reason.That's only a half-click though, and I loathe leaving joints in partway spots because it damages the joint and is prone to moving to the next spot over unexpectedly, which can cause the figure to fall down... and I really don't want to have to replace this figure down the road, gonna be hard as hell to track down in a few years I suspect.

figrin bran
12-13-2006, 09:45 PM
TF:CY Brimstone is alright, the weird yellow is no good but the figure is decent - needs a better paintjob though, especially to fill in a few areas that are a tad plain. The sculpt almost fits the aesthetic too, but he's bigger than Grimlock which wouldn't work.



that's right, brimstone's the name. i wouldn't mind the size differential...after all, i've got a giant manta ray (BW Depth Charge) and a giant tiger with wings (BW Tigerhawk) in my collection. not to mention a rat (Transmetal Rattrap) that's just as big as a rhino or cheetah.

DarkArtist
12-14-2006, 11:57 AM
I picked up the Optimus Prime vs Megatron 2 pack the other day from TRU. Big Optimus fan so seeing a decent Prime was cool, have him posed with my original GI Optimus and the new Titanium version along with my Takara World's smallest Optimus. Here hoping that Santa comes down the chimney and drops off a 20th Anniversary DVD Prime.

seanmcfripp
12-14-2006, 12:43 PM
I never picked up Energon Downshift (Wheeljack), but I'm thinking he'd fit in nicely with the Classics. I'm worried about his leg articulation though.

JT, you have a nice sense of what good articulation is, and I like how you describe a joint's design. Here's your old Downshift review for reference:


Downshift is clearly supposed to be Wheeljack, I can barely keep from typing "Wheeljack" every time I mention the fig's name. The alt mode is an homage to the G1 Wheeljack's Lancia racecar design and looks slick yet beefy. The white plastic calls for a paint wash to bring out the sculpted details, but it doesn't look cheap unlike a lot of white parts on Transformers. The doors open gull-wing style, it's a little tempermental because of some clips at the bottom of the doors that don't want to let go and the roof being connected only to the front of the car and not the back. The spark crystal on the wheel is the only thing I really don't like. The translucent red plastic used for the accessories, doors, roof panels, headlights, and eye/ear lightpipe is the same strawberry color as Energon Arcee, it's a little grating but not at all a dealbreaker.

Downshift's accessories aren't terrible, but they're not great either and I don't like them connected to alt mode at all. One is a twin-barrel rifle and the other is an oversized pistol with a spring-loaded projectile, they both attach to the car as side-mounted exhaust pipes. I would like them a lot more if they had bottom-mounted handle pegs, but they only have side-mounted pegs which means they have to be held sideways. The car's spoiler can be removed and the guns can be pegged sideways into it with the figure holding this arrangement from the spoiler's middle peg, I like having the guns come in and back a little when in regular bot mode and out and forward in powerlinked modes, gives a little extra contrast.

Transformation reminds me a little of Armada Hot Shot, except here it's more satisfying and there's more going on. There's no pulling down of the legs or folding out of the head, it's more of a reveal design, but there's plenty to do. Like his case-mate Towline, Downshift's transformation is fairly intuitive, but using the instructions actually hurts this some because they tried to show the transformation from the side of the car in every frame and it just ends up confusing matters.

Bot mode is very nifty, some wonky articulation at the hips but the overall effect is neat and not a brick or badly-restricted. Downshift's head is so G1 Wheeljack that it's impossible not to think of him that way. Downshift can hold his weapons individually or together leaving him quite well-armed, and the small exhaust pipes on the shoulders even fold down to become guns.

The pants mode is very basic, just fold the uppermost part of the body backwards and if you want it to look a little less like a very long torso you can split the waist slightly similar to Hot Shot's pants mode. Downshift's pants mode looks very cool with Hot Shot as the shirt, and works ok with Rodimus too, though I don't like Prowl that much here and Inferno looks really bad because of how much difference there is between the sizes of the torsos. Shirt mode is interesting, the uppermost part of the body swivels around and places itself between the figure's now-split-apart waist which become shoulders. As shirt, I like Downshift best with Prowl as the legs, yet Hot Shot and Rodimus both work here too - once again, Inferno is just left in the dust.

Overall, this is a can't-miss figure and very recognizable homage too.

Are you still as happy with the leg articulation today as you were then? Pictures suggest to me that the "hips" only swing out to the left or right, but don't swing forward or backward. I see there's a joint just below the pelvis, but it seems too low to be considered part of the hip joint, and looks more like a knee that's too high. Reminds me of Alt Sideswipe almost.

I'd love it if Hasbro just knocked out the powerlinx section of the torso and replaced it with a more normal pelvis, then released him under the Classics line. Doesn't seem like it'd be too hard.

While I'm wishing, does anyone think Hasbro would ever consider putting out the Botcon '05 versions of Ironhide and Ratchet (Tow Line repaints) under the Classics line, or would that peeve the folks who get all wet over owning rare exclusives? They look pretty sweet, and they totally have a Classics look to them. I'd buy 'em.

matthewilw
12-14-2006, 02:56 PM
Funny, mine didn't have a problem with the cockpit locking in place. You're only the second person I know to have picked him up, though, so I'm not sure which of us has a fluke. :confused:

I was lucky enough to find him yesterday at a local TRU and the nose pieces on mine seem to lock in place. They don't have pegs that lock into the cockpit, but the hinges on the extendable arms (holding the nose pieces) are so tight they clamp them down tight.

EDIT: The nose pieces lock down on two little "fins" located on the extendable arms, still works out very nicely though.

Absolutely the single best Transformer I've bought since MP Prime. Although, I hate that the legs don't have more articulation, the arms I can deal with but it's hard to pose him with his current lack of leg movement.

Tycho
12-14-2006, 06:06 PM
There's a really good thread in MySpace's Transformers group about the Transformers' political affiliations and whether they could run for American office and so forth. It's not so silly when you read the ingenious ideas I came away from it with.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=28210027&groupID=101114536&adTopicID=12&Mytoken=CFCAF41B-2850-48FF-99ED31F54B70587941336094

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 08:38 PM
that's right, brimstone's the name. i wouldn't mind the size differential...after all, i've got a giant manta ray (BW Depth Charge) and a giant tiger with wings (BW Tigerhawk) in my collection. not to mention a rat (Transmetal Rattrap) that's just as big as a rhino or cheetah.To me, Grimlock HAS to be the largest of the Dinobots, it's just somehow a necessity and I'm not even a G1 purist.


DarkArtist, Target had 20th DVD Prime on sale recently for $52 and change down from the regular price, I'm not sure it's still in effect but worth checking for. Either way, good luck getting him, don't let the jolly fat elf drop it down the chimney though, it'll break for sure. ;)



I never picked up Energon Downshift (Wheeljack), but I'm thinking he'd fit in nicely with the Classics. I'm worried about his leg articulation though. It's a good idea, he's got a lot of Wheeljack character in both modes, he's not quite Classics quality but he has the look which is a start.


Are you still as happy with the leg articulation today as you were then? Pictures suggest to me that the "hips" only swing out to the left or right, but don't swing forward or backward. I see there's a joint just below the pelvis, but it seems too low to be considered part of the hip joint, and looks more like a knee that's too high.To be honest, my opinion of the faux-hips has dimmed, especially with this application, Astrotrain is in the same boat yet even he gets real knees as well. It does kill some dynamic posing on Downshift, but for more neutral poses it does alright (especially if you splay the hips slightly).


I'd love it if Hasbro just knocked out the powerlinx section of the torso and replaced it with a more normal pelvis, then released him under the Classics line. Doesn't seem like it'd be too hard.It's an interesting idea, but he's so leggy that I'd rather see them just try again, something more in line with the Classics motif. They've proved themselves quite capable on this line and I think they could do Wheeljack all new with great success.


While I'm wishing, does anyone think Hasbro would ever consider putting out the Botcon '05 versions of Ironhide and Ratchet (Tow Line repaints) under the Classics line, or would that peeve the folks who get all wet over owning rare exclusives? They look pretty sweet, and they totally have a Classics look to them. I'd buy 'em.Definitely like to see that, and those aren't the only Botcon exclusives that got new headsculpts I'd like to see in a main line. I think Hasbro's made the wrongest decision possible with new headsculpts, I feel strongly that repaints should at least have new headsculpts if not other sculpting changes - new headsculpt REALLY means new character and more sales. And as for the Towline remolds, those looked great, I don't really care about exclusivity, just means most fans aren't getting good toys - if it's a huge issue, then change the paint apps.



I was lucky enough to find him yesterday at a local TRU and the nose pieces on mine seem to lock in place. They don't have pegs that lock into the cockpit, but the hinges on the extendable arms (holding the nose pieces) are so tight they clamp them down tight.

EDIT: The nose pieces lock down on two little "fins" located on the extendable arms, still works out very nicely though.Really? I haven't had that happen with mine, in bot mode nothing locks down, the tabs fit into their slots but don't grab against anything, and nothing else holds down the cockpit.

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 09:45 PM
A friend of mine just sent me this link, tell me, what's wrong with this image?

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/58/tf03vz5.jpg

(and no, the answer isn't "this is a Transformers book yet the only thing drawn competently is Spider-man" ;))

Tycho
12-15-2006, 09:49 PM
Well it looks like Ironhide's head is on Megatron's body.

Spider-Man actually appears to be Venom.

And I have no idea if I stumbled upon what you were getting at.

JediTricks
12-15-2006, 09:57 PM
Well it looks like Ironhide's head is on Megatron's body.

Spider-Man actually appears to be Venom.

And I have no idea if I stumbled upon what you were getting at.
The problem is that, even with the black suit, there's no way in hell Spidey is going to be able to defeat MEGATRON!!!

El Chuxter
12-16-2006, 11:19 AM
He doesn't. He doesn't even try. It's typical of the super-sensationalist covers of the time.

Tenric78
12-16-2006, 02:02 PM
If spiderman can beat Juggernaught, spiderman can beat megatron. He's got the power of writers on his side.

And I've been watching through all the cartoons on DVD... Megatron aint that hard to beat.

figrin bran
12-16-2006, 09:49 PM
I found the Classics Mini-Cons at TRU today. Since i'm a sucker for dinosaur toys, i picked up the Dinobots set.

El Chuxter
12-16-2006, 09:55 PM
So, when is the next wave of Classics supposed to be coming out?

(By next wave, I mean Cliffjumper and Ramjet.)

JediTricks
12-18-2006, 03:27 PM
He doesn't. He doesn't even try. It's typical of the super-sensationalist covers of the time.What kind of superhero doesn't even TRY to defeat a giant evil robot?!?

I have no idea when TF:CL dlx Wave 3 is scheduled, my guess is February.


I picked up the Night Rescue Minicon Team, oh man does this set ever suck the big one. Even their names suck - Divebomb for the helicopter? That's not what attack helicopters do! Firebot for the firetruck? "Firebot" is a name from the Playskool line!!! Strongarm for the cop car is the closest to working but I still think it sucks. The best thing these 3 can say is they have ok alt modes - Firebot's fire truck is somewhat similar to the last minicon with that name, and he sports 2 water cannons on top; Strongarm's front half is a modern Dodge Charger, but from the middle back he gets fat and plain and there's no sculpting at all where the back windows should be; Divebomb's the best of the lot, a modern attack chopper a la AH-64 Apache, complete with the radar dome above the rotors and winglets with missile pods underneath... I'm not exactly sure how an attach chopper is going to rescue anybody though, "help, I'm trapped in a ravine! Wait, how are you going to rescue me?" "Well, I can pulverize you into soup, will that help?" Annnyway... Strongarm has one of the weirdest transformations ever, as well as one of the least cooperative, each side of the car rotates around the long axis 45 degrees or so, one side goes way further than the other but this just looks even worse, then the front end folds up. Firebot's transformation is fairly standard and simple, while Divebomb's transformation is wild and would be awesome on a bigger helicopter bot.

Strongarm's robot mode is abysmal, blocky in the wrong way, regular bot with tall shoulders, he's got 2 meaningful points of articulation - hinged shoulders from transformation - and very little sculpted detailing, his head is his only good feature here, it's an expressive tough guy thing with dark red eyes, and he's always looking a little upwards. Firebot's got huge feet that are all in front of him so he has to be repositioned a little to keep from falling back, his shoulders are set way back and just above his head which looks bad when his arms are down, he's got a long masked face which looks evil, he's got the most articulation with ball-jointed shoulders, inward-swinging elbows, rotating cannons on his forearms, limited ball-jointed hips, and hinged knees. Divebomb's got NO meaningful articulation, his body is mainly his tail split in half and rotated around to fit on the inverted chopper nose (there are tabs supposed to be holding it, but too much play prevents this from happening), it starts at his shoulders and ends as his feet (this would be great on a deluxe or mega that could add hip and knee joints to it, but alas), and the tail wheel is supposed to be the heelspurs but they're just above flush so he rocks back a little and then kips over easily; the middle of the torso is the cockpit of the chopper, the engines fold back to reveal the face between them, the arms are the most tragic because they're formed from unfolding the missile pods, he has missile pod hands but without articulation he can only point them down!!! What breaks my heart about Divebomb is that he looks kinda cool in bot mode and has some nifty sculpted details like the driveshaft inside the tail, but he's a statue-bot because he's so small, I'd really like to see this one tried full-sized with actual articulation.

Overall, this set is utterly abysmal, so few redeeming qualities, it's not even "buy it because it's so bad it's funny" territory, not much charm. This is the first minicon set I've ever suggested avoiding. Grade: D

El Chuxter
12-18-2006, 04:00 PM
As I recall, Peter Parker was sent to take photos of the Decepticon base in Washington, and helped Gears sneak in. Then, when Gears was blown to bits, he helped get the pieces back to the other Autobots. (This was still really, really early, when they were just big robots who could basically be rebuilt every time they were killed.)

It was a pretty lousy issue, even for those incredibly weak first four issues of the series.

JediTricks
12-18-2006, 05:11 PM
It certainly sounds sucky. I would have been super mad if I was a kid and bought that thinking there'd be an awesome Spidey vs Decepticon showdown.

Dominic Guglieme
12-18-2006, 07:42 PM
I did not mind the early issues of the comic. Granted, I think the human story should have been more focused on Sparkplug and Blackrock, but hey......

I cannot tell you how many times my Secret Wars Spidey fought Ravage.


All told, I would really like to see Transformers integrated with Marvel, or better yet, pre-Zero Hour DC. Just fun enough, but just serious enough.


As for the Minicons......thanks for the warning JT. I disagree completely about Strongarm's name though-that is the best name ever for a Transforming police car. *Best*name*ever*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! I mean, c'mon...work with it man.

You are dead on about the transform. For all of the difficulty, it does not even have the ambition of the older Minicon sets, which while not always graceful, had ambitious designs. "Firebot", while not the best name, ain't bad, and it serves the purpose most Minicon names have of holding a copyright in place. Divebomb epitomizes the thrown together feel of the new sets. Divebomb is a great name for an attacking aircraft, but not for a rescue aircraft. And, why is there an attack craft in a set labelled "rescue"? Why dammit?

figrin bran
12-18-2006, 09:15 PM
arrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!! kbtoys.com just cancelled the Jetfire that i ordered from them :mad:

JediTricks
12-19-2006, 02:55 PM
Damn Figgy, that sucks bad! I hope you give them both barrels of pain for that.



All told, I would really like to see Transformers integrated with Marvel, or better yet, pre-Zero Hour DC. Just fun enough, but just serious enough.That's just disturbed, DC + Transformers sounds bad, the only thing that'd be cool is Megatron working with Lex Luthor (but keep Brainiac out of it, that's a kettle of fish we don't need). Why pre-Zero Hour and not pre-Crisis?


I disagree completely about Strongarm's name though-that is the best name ever for a Transforming police car. *Best*name*ever*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! I mean, c'mon...work with it man.Sorry, no, he's not some corrupt Decepticon police detective, he's an Autobot. Plus, the figure can barely move his arms. :p


For all of the difficulty, it does not even have the ambition of the older Minicon sets, which while not always graceful, had ambitious designs.I would say Strongarm's transformation is pretentious in that way, it is acting like it's being ambitious when it's really just sloppy. Divebomb's transformation is ambitious though, and it costs him in the articulation department which is too bad because I really do think that TF scheme is up there with some of the most ambitious minicon TF schemes.


"Firebot", while not the best name, ain't bad, and it serves the purpose most Minicon names have of holding a copyright in place.This is a name that needs to be abandoned, no 2 ways about it, it's horribly juvenile, and any TF with "bot" in his name is generally going to have an uphill battle in the character department.


Divebomb epitomizes the thrown together feel of the new sets. Divebomb is a great name for an attacking aircraft, but not for a rescue aircraft.Attack planes divebomb, attack choppers can fly in low and strafe or can hover and nose down to deliver serious pain, and the AH-64's weakness is close-quarters fighting, it's best suited to fire from a distance. In any case, it would make a hell of a lot more sense on a number of the wave 2 Minicons - any of the 3 on the Clear Skies team and Dreadwing of the Predator Attack team: http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=F593986F-D56F-E112-495C782C4065A089


And, why is there an attack craft in a set labelled "rescue"? Why dammit?Hasbro's laziness at throwing these 3packs together after designing them for the Cybertron 2pack line.

Tycho
12-19-2006, 03:56 PM
I mentioned this in the Transformers movie thread, but in about 10 more hours or so, the trailer for the new motion picture will go online if Don Murphy had his facts straight.

Hold your breath!

JediTricks
12-19-2006, 06:25 PM
This is the Transformers toys thread, what does the movie have to do with that? ;)

Tycho
12-19-2006, 07:34 PM
This is the Transformers toys thread, what does the movie have to do with that? ;)

I'll tell you in about 7 more hours if we'll need a Michael Bay punching bag product.

Dominic Guglieme
12-19-2006, 07:59 PM
Why the hubbub about the trailer? We have the script, and we know the movie will be awful.


The idea of DC + TF is no worse than TF + Marvel. As for the timing, DC was at its best post CoIE, but pre-Zero Hour. Post Zero Hour, DC started getting a bit too pretentious, and their indecision became structural more than accidental.


I stand by the name "Strongarm" for a police car. Factions be damned. But, yes, the arm engineering in this case is troublesome.


Dom
-hunkering down to wait for OTFCC Astrotrain to get here.

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 03:45 AM
I'll tell you in about 7 more hours if we'll need a Michael Bay punching bag product.And now I can say for sure that we do: http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/transformers/


I hate this type of rapid-fire cutting, this one goes by so fast it's like a seizure-inducing strobe light. The glimpses we get seem very CG and very expensive, but somehow very bland and not very Transformers. I suspect the fan base will go nuts for it anyway.



I stand by the name "Strongarm" for a police car. Factions be damned.That's a negative connotation, police who strongarm are bad cops, those kinds of tactics get cases thrown out, freeing evildoers because bad cops violated the law - it ultimately does nobody any good, fine for a Decepticon but hard to swallow for an Autobot.


How much is the Club Astrotrain costing Dom?

Tycho
12-20-2006, 07:52 AM
And now I can say for sure that we do: http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/transformers/


I hate this type of rapid-fire cutting, this one goes by so fast it's like a seizure-inducing strobe light. The glimpses we get seem very CG and very expensive, but somehow very bland and not very Transformers. I suspect the fan base will go nuts for it anyway.

My take on it:

It looks like an awesome robot invasion movie, but not a Transformers movie per se. There are obvious elements - Optimus Prime was recognizeable - and huge. That was BumbleBee and Ratchet pulling up to him as he transformed.
Their cars were miniscule next to his Autobot form.

The trailer lacked any Transformer voice talent speaking, like Peter Cullen, who they could have at least had a voice-over for the trailer done with.

I take it (from the script) that "the thing" getting out of the pool by the little girl was Ironhide. I need to pause it, but I'm like: WTF?! And since Cullen was the original voice of Ironhide - another missed opportunity for a voice in there, though as far as I remember, at this early juncture, they (SPOILER NOT REVEALED - but most of you guys read that comedy stunt).

The attack in Qatar looks to be very violent and very bloody. That's cool if you ask me. It's time to stop having Decepticons be "Nice Guys" by shooting everything and not killing anybody (or hitting anyone mortally for that matter save for a 1986 toy commercial movie). Michael Bay does not include Rodimus, so be thankful for small favors.

As a trailer goes, I still wanted more. But this is shaping up to be a very unique movie I'll go see as soon as I can. The realism is something I always wanted out of a Transformers movie.

By the way, there's no way in hell they'll make accurate toys out of these 'Bot-Cons'.

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 03:57 PM
US trailer is up, in WMV and Quicktime, Quicktime also is offered in large HD formats (which my system doesn't have enough v-ram to play smoothly :( ), it's the same trailer as the link above but bigger: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/transformers.html

Dominic Guglieme
12-20-2006, 05:55 PM
How much is the Club Astrotrain costing Dom?


I do not want to talk about it. Nah, seriously, just shy of 90 dollars. My source is not marking it up on me. I still need to register for the club though, and for the con. I just ordered the Astrotrain earlier to ensure I got one. Right now, I have some real life expenses to worry about.


And for all of the stuff that will go wrong with the movies, voice talent is the least of our worries.

JediTricks
12-20-2006, 06:07 PM
Wow, that's some serious coin for a delayed Armada remold! What's the interest factor for you?

figrin bran
12-20-2006, 09:22 PM
if i see that trailer in the theaters, i'll definitely boo. heck, i'm doing it right now at home.

i hate the Strokes and so i'm even booing Spike's strokes t-shirt.

seanmcfripp
12-21-2006, 09:59 AM
It's an interesting idea, but he's so leggy that I'd rather see them just try again, something more in line with the Classics motif. They've proved themselves quite capable on this line and I think they could do Wheeljack all new with great success.

My worry is that everything we've seen for Classics so far is pretty much all we're going to get, at least until Hasbro decides if they want to keep Classics going. If they do, I get the feeling it's going to be all repaints and tooling tweaks until Hasbro figures out what they want to do with the line (probably after the movie line slows down). I'd love a new Wheeljack too, but I'll take a slightly improved Energon Downshift if it means no other Wheeljack at all. I guess I'm looking at Classics, at least in the short term, as a chance for Hasbro to do the Universe thing "right." Comb through the last few years of stuff, pick out what looks like it fits together, tweak where you can (like dropping/retooling gimmicks, new heads, new weapons, etc.), and break out some fresh paint schemes.

I mangaged to win an Energon Downshift the other day for one cent. The guy charged me $9 to ship it for some reason, but I still feel like I got a nice deal. I've had him for a day now, and I think he's great. The car's design is one of my favorites of the last few years, with a wedge shape and lines that remind me of an update of an '80's sports car, allowing him to fit in nicely with the other Classics cars. The wide tires are fantastic and help accentuate the car's aggressive stance, something lacking in Hot Rod's design (those skinny wheels and tires don't cut it). In bot mode, he's all Wheeljack. The legs really aren't all that bad, and the powerlinx gimmick is nicely hidden. The legs remind me of Alt. Prowl's in that they'd probably be more effective if the backs were made to be the fronts. I did the leg swapping mod on Prowl's legs when I first got him, and it made all the difference in the world. Too bad Downshift doesn't have a swiveling waist/pelvis, or else I'd do the same thing for him. He looks ok as is though. One thing I really like, something I haven't seen in pictures online, are the weapon mounting ports on the outsides of the shoulders. With the rocket launcher on either shoulder, he looks quite a bit like the G1 cartoon version of Wheeljack. By the way, Hasbro needs to get back into shoulder rockets. They've been missing from Transformers for far too long.

El Chuxter
12-21-2006, 10:04 AM
Here's a question I've been meaning to ask for a while, and keep forgetting. But now I remember, so I'm asking. :)

Does anyone know the reason Alternator Camshaft is so incredibly rare?

I actually saw him once, several weeks (maybe months) back. I passed, as I've had no trouble finding any Alternators before, and didn't have the cash on me. He was gone the next day, and I've never seen him again--even though the store has, since then, restocked a few dozen Alternators.

What gives?

Dominic Guglieme
12-21-2006, 10:25 AM
I think Camshaft was renamed either Swerve of Windcharger. Not sure though.

As for Astrotrain, I like the mold enough that I will suffer Brian Savage's club. Hopefully, it will not get much context.

darthvyn
12-21-2006, 11:52 AM
Here's a question I've been meaning to ask for a while, and keep forgetting. But now I remember, so I'm asking. :)

Does anyone know the reason Alternator Camshaft is so incredibly rare?

I actually saw him once, several weeks (maybe months) back. I passed, as I've had no trouble finding any Alternators before, and didn't have the cash on me. He was gone the next day, and I've never seen him again--even though the store has, since then, restocked a few dozen Alternators.

What gives?

at this point i've not found ANY new alternators in quite a while... not that i've been looking... i've kinda stopped my alternator buying in lieu of my spidey comics buying. i've also started up with TF classics, as they're almost as cool as alternators, but for a fraction of the price in most cases.

and camshaft was not renamed anything. it's a repaint of the prowl RSX. swerve was a repaint of tracks, and windcharger was a honda s2000.

seanmcfripp
12-21-2006, 04:42 PM
Does anyone know the reason Alternator Camshaft is so incredibly rare?

I don't remember exactly which wave he's from(I think it was 12), but I seem to remember when Entertainment Earth had the case breakdowns listed, he was only part of the the one wave, but none of the revisions that followed. Never seen him in the wild myself, and I'm a bona fide stalker when it comes to finding this stuff. I'm starting to think he'll be the next Swerve.

Dominic Guglieme
12-21-2006, 06:38 PM
My mistake on Camshaft. I guess the correct answer is "blame Hasbro for being lax in distributing toys", which was a consisten problem this past year.

Chaddymac
12-22-2006, 11:41 AM
Saw a bunch of Classics Mirage at Fry's last night, along with a bunch of Alternators Rollbar and Optimus Prime. Also a good number of Classics Grimlock and Mirage at TRU, and a couple sets of minicons.

figrin bran
12-26-2006, 09:00 PM
TRU has a buy 2 get 1 free offer on TF's. presumably to clear out the Cybertron line.

of course, wouldn't you know it, there's barely anything worth buying. for $9 i picked up 3 of those Legends of Cybertron figures - Soundwave, Thundercracker and Vector Prime

JediTricks
12-27-2006, 01:49 AM
More photos of the movie Brawl figure:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=118544

I had no idea he was so small and simplistic.

The design factor looks like it's slipped from Cybertron and Classics, Cybertron was a coup, movie is poo.

Tycho
12-27-2006, 03:17 AM
I knew these movie toys would be POS and on top of it, the movie designs that "inspire" them seem to be as well.

I still think the plot is good, but the production might ache. The trailer had only brief glimpses of those they showed. That made it a major curiousity, but not necessarily something to be pleased with.

I'm so glad I buy Alternators and MPEs. I don't even think the Classic line compares to those.

I'll probably buy MPE Megatron.

Definitely Alternator Ravage and Rumble.

And I'll buy repaints of MPE Starscream as Thundercracker and Skywarp if the paint schemes aren't too ridiculous (G1 was slightly ridiculous for realistic military aircraft, but change Thundercracker slighltly to a Blue Angels' F18 and keep purple trim off Skywarp's black, and they'll be OK. With MPE Starscream, he came with stickers which is the best way I can think of to suit everyone's different tastes. So you can put the purple on Skywarp, and I can leave it off). Oh, but at least make slightly different headsculpts for the new characters!

Anyway, Barricade, Ironhide, and BumbleBee could be done as Alternators as well. (Jazz if they want to revisit "Meister," and seeing his movie look, they might as well). A movie Ratchet of any quality might be a challenge. But they can blend his G1 look a little with the movie look as they'll never get an accurate toy out of his onscreen appearance anyway. (Which looks like hell so they might as well return to the G1 head).

Honestly, we ought to be able to collect Transformer proofs-of-purchase for a mail-in offer to get labotomies for Hasbro's Transformer team employees (or Takara's or wherever it needs to start).

I'm more concerned about the toys right now than the movie. I plan to go and see it as soon as possible, but I don't have to buy the DVD later if I don't like it - and if I don't, I won't be going to see the other later 2 in the series more than likely.

plasticfetish
12-27-2006, 08:38 AM
I knew these movie toys would be POS and on top of it, the movie designs that "inspire" them seem to be as well.

I still think the plot is good, but the production might ache. The trailer had only brief glimpses of those they showed. That made it a major curiousity, but not necessarily something to be pleased with.You know, we saw a movie Christmas eve (Night at the Museum... very good BTW), and they played the trailer for the TF movie. I've got to admit, it looked pretty awesome. The bot designs are going to p*** all of the "hard core" G1 fans off, but in this day and age, when they can render extremely complex mechanical figures with CG, I really can't see them going any other way.

In short, it looks great on the big screen, and everyone should hold off on passing judgement until they've had a chance to see it that way.

Now... with that said, I'm even less interested in the toy line at this point. Knowing Hasbro, they'll fail miserably when it comes to emulating the style and complexity of the mecha from this movie.

Chaddymac
12-27-2006, 09:00 AM
Well, if it's any consolation, I'm fairly certain the movie figures will be released in multiple size classes, so the smaller ones may just represent the deluxe size class and there are more complex, larger figures coming later. That's what I remember from BotCon last year, so, if that hasn't changed, I'm still holding out hope.

Of course, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they all sucked (and so far, they do). I could use the savings!

plasticfetish
12-27-2006, 06:27 PM
...so the smaller ones may just represent the deluxe size class and there are more complex, larger figures coming later. That's what I remember from BotCon last year, so, if that hasn't changed, I'm still holding out hope.If that's true, and if they take a more... I dunno... "Japanese" approach to building cool robot toys, then it might turn out cool enough.

The robots in this film are very slick, and large and elaborate... hyper realistic. It'd be fun to see some toy options that reflect that. (I'd like to see a little diecast mixed in there for once.)

Tycho
12-27-2006, 06:55 PM
To make the movie Transformers accurately, yes, not only would die-cast be great, but a very large 20" Transformer might be necessary for each toy (larger yet for the bigger characters).

That being said, maybe Master Replicas or Takara-proper could handle these robots and sell them direct or through their distributors and just pay off Hasbro since they'd cost like $100+ each and wouldn't do for Hasbro's mass-market retail approach. (Target or Wal-Mart would probably not carry a $100 B-character like Ironhide, while Starscream might cost $200 if seriously done right and made to work as seen in the movie. Heck BumbleBee looks really complicated! And if I dare call Ironhide a "b-character," Blackout or whatever the chopper will finally be called is a "D-character.") I'd love to see them (and would pay for them) being done Masterpiece Quality or better. But I don't have my hopes up.

plasticfetish
12-27-2006, 07:30 PM
That being said, maybe Master Replicas or Takara-proper could handle these robots and sell them direct or through their distributors and just pay off Hasbro since they'd cost like $100+ each and wouldn't do for Hasbro's mass-market retail approach.I don't think they'd need to be $100 toys... don't think it needs to be Master Replicas either, but a more Takara-esque approach would be nice. I'm still thinking back to the RID line, which aside from a few problems (rubber tires and chrome that fell apart over time), was a very cool angle. If they pushed the idea a little further, and maybe played up the detail thing... it makes for better play value I think. The toys wouldn't need to be more that $30. No more that Alternators...

JediTricks
12-29-2006, 03:17 AM
Movie Barricade, with and without his minicon-type guy in his chest:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=118550


Hasbro photos of Alternators Ravage:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=118671
Mucho stinko!

Tycho
12-29-2006, 03:42 AM
I wish they'd photo'd Barricade next to an Alternator so we could get an idea of the size comparison for those of us who don't collect the Classics. Barricade looks a little better to me than the photos I'd seen before. But we're still dealing with plastic tires, etc. And Soundwave or whomever attaches to him looks like crap.

As to Alternator Ravage? He's pretty cool in my opinion. I'll be buying this one.

Don't say he stinks and then go buy Mini-Cons and Cybertron-line toys, guys.

Ravage is cool. When do you think he and Rumble will hit the stores? Will they ship together? I haven't been in a toy isle since the 24th (because I had to go to Wally's out of necessity and curiousity).

I may make a trip sometime in the next 24 hours and report in the LA Area forums if there's anything to report afterall.

I honestly don't expect to find these Alternators any time too soon.

When can you order Masterpiece Megatron, (as an in-stock item from Japan, not an add-an-orange from a US re-retailer) does anyone know?

figrin bran
12-29-2006, 11:09 AM
So which lines of TF's does Tycho collect anyhow? :p

i can't buy Cybertron toys even if i wanted as the supply has really dried up around here. TRU has a buy 2 get 1 free offer on TF's and there isn't anything worth buying...not even any of the Beast Wars repaints are on the shelves

That Ravage looks terrible in robot mode. i'll stick to my Energon version.

Dominic Guglieme
12-29-2006, 11:15 AM
You know, we saw a movie Christmas eve (Night at the Museum... very good BTW), and they played the trailer for the TF movie. I've got to admit, it looked pretty awesome. The bot designs are going to p*** all of the "hard core" G1 fans off, but in this day and age, when they can render extremely complex mechanical figures with CG, I really can't see them going any other way.

In short, it looks great on the big screen, and everyone should hold off on passing judgement until they've had a chance to see it that way.

Now... with that said, I'm even less interested in the toy line at this point. Knowing Hasbro, they'll fail miserably when it comes to emulating the style and complexity of the mecha from this movie.



What purpose does seeing the movie on screen have? It will be terrible. I have read the script, and the draft I read seems to be a pretty late product, meaning.......it will be a bad movie. (I actually thought the script I read was a hoax before Chaddy and others confirmed otherwise, as it is just that bad.)


The toys do not look that bad though. That much, and overly maligned, tank is really just a standard deluxe. I say wait to see that before we pass judgement. I am not saying that I plan for it to be the best toy ever, but there is no reason to hate that tank yet. And, Barricade looks pretty good, even if the lil' henchman is lackluster.

Tycho
12-29-2006, 11:47 AM
It occurs to me why I like Alternator Ravage: he reminds me of Black Lion from the Voltron team. Doesn't he?

JediTricks
12-29-2006, 07:53 PM
I wish they'd photo'd Barricade next to an Alternator so we could get an idea of the size comparison for those of us who don't collect the Classics.In the comparison shots, it looks like another short-lookin' deluxe.


Don't say he stinks and then go buy Mini-Cons and Cybertron-line toys, guys.Hey, don't blame us because you have bad taste and refuse to buy cool toys. Ravage sucks out loud.

figrin bran
12-29-2006, 09:37 PM
pics of the movie bumblebee figure right here: http://cache.lego.com/images/shop/prod/8918-0000-xx-12-1.jpg

Tycho, if you want the black lion, buy this MPE Voltron instead :p http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TN7300

JediTricks
12-29-2006, 10:22 PM
Haw! That was awesome, the new Bionicle line link.

Don't get that crappy Toynami Voltron, way overpriced and ugly, sure it has superior articulation but they missculpted the robot look pretty bad.

figrin bran
12-29-2006, 10:41 PM
heh heh, JT i saw those Barraki Bionicles at Target the other day and immediately thought of Movie Bumblebee when i saw the yellow one. i went back a few days later and all of them were gone.

Tycho
12-29-2006, 11:51 PM
I'm not going to collect another toy line. As it stands, setting up all my toys would take 8-9 rooms of Star Wars, the garage converted to a Star Trek diorama museum (Playmates and ArtAsylum), and a few hallway spaces dedicated for about 10-18 Transformers and 6-8 McFarlane Terminator figures.

I won't give up on what I'm into, but I actually look forward to ending my toy buying days to some degree. I don't want to end up being one of those 40-50 year old guys waiting outside of Target every morning.

This was fine for a 2nd childhood in my 20's, but as I'm growing up, I AM growing up (slightly).

However, when I was a kid, I collected all the Panosh Place Voltron toys that had action figures with removeable helmets that you put inside the Lions which assembled into Voltron. The figures were Star Wars sized, and the Castle of Lions was a great playset! The robeasts had lightup coffins and Prince Luthor or whatever his name was had an electronic fighter ship, and his guardsmen had their own fighters that shot flaming disc weapons. I had only one of each, but given my resources today, I would have assembled a fleet. The one thing I'd wished for was giant Robeast figures. In the cartoon, the coffins would land with the Robeasts being human-sized, but Haggar the Witch would enchant them and they'd grow to be as large as Voltron! Like the Shogun Warriors toy line, they should have also made large-scale Robeast figures. That was a fun line.

El Chuxter
12-30-2006, 12:27 AM
Someone needs to start a Voltron thread.

plasticfetish
01-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Happy New Year!
Chux, here's a treat for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBat-ovIsg

...finally got to uploading it. :)

JediTricks
01-02-2007, 12:28 AM
DUDE! Grimlock is kicking Godzilla's ***!


Movie Starscream prototype:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270075219705

Movie Ratchet prototype:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270075209798

And no surprise, I hate them both.

El Chuxter
01-02-2007, 12:32 AM
Holy crap! That may be the coolest thing ever!!!


DUDE! Grimlock is kicking Godzilla's ***!

You say that as if the outcome of such a battle would ever be in dispute? Even mabs would side with Grimlock on this one.

Grimlock can beat anyone. Except for Jubilee or Snake Eyes. Because he'd recognize that they're hella cool like him and they'd all go to the movies and make fun of some Ben Stiller train wreck.

"Ha ha ha! Stupid fleshling run from dinosaur bone. If me Grimlock there, me smack upside head, say, 'Stupid human! Dinosaur skeleton not really alive!'"
"Yeah, like, totally lame-o, y'know?"
"...."

JediTricks
01-02-2007, 01:12 AM
You say that as if the outcome of such a battle would ever be in dispute? Well, Godzilla has beaten Mechagodzilla countless times, and Mechagodzilla is made of "space titanium", plus Godzilla's actually WAAAAAY bigger than Grimlock.

Tycho
01-02-2007, 01:55 AM
JT, I'm just seeing these movie toy pictures. You beat me to posting the link - as I totally did not want to bother adjusting the pictures to repost here they are such crap!

Starscream actually screams justification to me for spending nearly $100 to get the G1-type MPE. His jet mode is wings with Autobot-car-sized-kibble attached to his underbelly. He actually makes JetFire look good (I wasn't exactly a fan of Jetfire's).

Now I hate to admit it, but Ratchet's actually a good start. The design works for a toy, but an Alternator type spin on it with a metallic paint finish (same color, just less plastic looking) and rubber tires would make this guy rock.

In reading the message boards over there at TF2005.com I see a lot of people liking even Starscream with no accounting for sophistocated taste. It really looks like they'll buy anything. It's no wonder I stopped buying Transformers for years until Alternators tempted me back into it.

plasticfetish
01-02-2007, 03:45 AM
Haha! Glad you like the Grimlock ad... I've been waiting to get that one up for a while. (It's second to last on the list.)


And no surprise, I hate them both.Oh god... call me an idiot, but I like the cell phone bot. Maybe it's just because it reminds me of a Microman thing...

Hmm, I kind of like Ratchet also. Need to see a final product though. I don't hate Starscream, but it's nothing new. Reminds me of a Beast Machines figure.

figrin bran
01-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Hmm, I kind of like Ratchet also. Need to see a final product though. I don't hate Starscream, but it's nothing new. Reminds me of a Beast Machines figure.

you mean Beast Machines Jetstorm? while that wasn't that great a toy either, at least the colors were better.

even with my "non sophisticated tastes" :p there's no way i'm ever buying that vomit green ratchet.

JediTricks
01-02-2007, 09:46 PM
Alternators Rumble production sample:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280066562931

I'm not feeling it at all unfortunately, but I'll likely buy him over Ravage.



Oh god... call me an idiot, but I like the cell phone bot. Maybe it's just because it reminds me of a Microman thing...I didn't link to either the Cell Phone, Camera, or Handheld Game system guys because I'm still not sure if they're really supposed to be for the movie, and I do like them.


Tycho's right, there's a LOT of stuff under Starscream's wings there, it's an offensive amount IMO.


More movie protos...
Mini Barricade:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270075474127

Larger photos of Starscream: http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-movie-Starscream-test-shot-in-hand_W0QQitemZ280066438266QQihZ018QQcategoryZ753QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item28006 6438266

Mini Prime:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-Movie-OPTIMUS-PRIME-mini-figure-prototype_W0QQitemZ270075456958QQihZ017QQcategoryZ 4696QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mini Megatron:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270075463654

There's something patently offensive about that Megatron LOC-style fig.

Tycho
01-03-2007, 12:25 AM
The video game controller, cell phone bot, etc. are all part of a movie spoiler I know of. PM or something if you're really concerned.

Megatron looks bad. He almost had me thinking that Michael Bay confused Megatron and Cyclonus!

Optimus Prime looked better. He didn't have the huge long-nose in the middle of his chest as that one picture (in error I believe) showed on some magazine cover.

Tycho
01-03-2007, 10:24 PM
Someone added music to the movie trailer and thought the larger TF crowd was in this thread and might enjoy this. It includes Peter Cullen's voice at the end:

http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?bandID=161472

DarkArtist
01-05-2007, 09:25 PM
was in a dollar store tonight and saw Bootleg Transformers in their toy section. they were titled Transformatrix and the figure were of Optimus Prime in two different truck modes. hey for $1 each I picked them up. have to say not bad for a buck but no worth much more. will post picks when I get the chance.

figrin bran
01-05-2007, 09:59 PM
was in a dollar store tonight and saw Bootleg Transformers in their toy section. they were titled Transformatrix and the figure were of Optimus Prime in two different truck modes. hey for $1 each I picked them up. have to say not bad for a buck but no worth much more. will post picks when I get the chance.

just take extra caution when handling those bootlegs as they tend to be made of really, really cheap plastic. i have a bootleg G1 Devastator that i haven't touched for years for fear that it'll spontaneously crumble :p

kool-aid killer
01-06-2007, 11:48 AM
was in a dollar store tonight and saw Bootleg Transformers in their toy section. they were titled Transformatrix and the figure were of Optimus Prime in two different truck modes. hey for $1 each I picked them up. have to say not bad for a buck but no worth much more. will post picks when I get the chance.

My brother has a knockoff Optimus from a "Dollar Tree Store." There were two types, a red and yellow one. Hes has the red one. Its not a bad looking knockoff, it looks like Optimus. The front is in red chrome, and the rest is black plastic. It even has a replica of Optimus' gun. My brother gave him the grand name of "Dollarbot."

Tycho
01-06-2007, 12:58 PM
I like that.

"Dollarbots: Transform and Clearance Out!"

figrin bran
01-08-2007, 09:53 PM
Hasbro has updated with pics of the Protoform toys

http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=022A4582-D56F-E112-44904AB6ED4C53B1

El Chuxter
01-08-2007, 10:07 PM
Why is Prime an asteroid with headlights? :confused:

plasticfetish
01-08-2007, 11:00 PM
Kids don't want those. Kids want a truck or a jet that transform into a robot. What the hell kind of play value do those things have? (Optimus transforms into something you can throw... into the trash.)

Tycho
01-08-2007, 11:41 PM
Why is Prime an asteroid with headlights? :confused:

After Ironhide hits a swimming pool, he sends a radio transmission into space as Prime is arriving on earth saying, "Suffering wet circuits, Prime! I wish I'd thought of turning on my headlights!"

Meanwhile, I agree with PlasticFetish, but these Protoform toys:

1) sucker completist collectors moreso than kids (Starscream doesn't even appear as a protoform in the movie - only Autobots do - you see one in the new movie teaser trailer (not Ironhide who lands in a pool, and not BumbleBee who's already on earth, so that would be Prime, Ratchet, or Jazz in the teaser trailer - Hasbro just hasn't gotten around to making those figures, but they will...to sucker completists).

2) Get movie hype launched by putting the cheapest goods that would have the least enhusiasm in the market first. Sort of like making Tion Meddon a sneak preview figure for ROTS.

figrin bran
01-09-2007, 12:02 AM
2) Get movie hype launched by putting the cheapest goods that would have the least enhusiasm in the market first. Sort of like making Tion Meddon a sneak preview figure for ROTS.

yes, but R4-G9, Wookiee Warrior and Grievous were all great figures. in this case, both the Prime and Starscream are carptastic.

Chaddymac
01-09-2007, 12:26 AM
yes, but R4-G9, Wookiee Warrior and Grievous were all great figures. in this case, both the Prime and Starscream are carptastic.
is "carptastic" new internet slang? I don't keep up with the words you youngens are using on the world wide web. In my day, we spelled our words correctly. Or, maybe you actually mean carptastic, which is to say they are reminiscent of common fresh water fish. Is that what you mean?

figrin bran
01-09-2007, 12:40 AM
ha. not internet slang so much as SSG slang. go do a post search on "carp" and you'll be surprised at how often we use it here. :p

plasticfetish
01-09-2007, 02:55 AM
Or, maybe you actually mean carptastic, which is to say they are reminiscent of common fresh water fish. Is that what you mean?Carp is a muddy tasting, bone riddled fish... and not particularly good IMHO, so maybe it works. ;)

El Chuxter
01-09-2007, 10:05 AM
Mabudonicus, carp has now reached such a level that your immortality is assured.

Even if "Rockin' Deuce" hadn't already done so, the word "carp" has ensured that generations to come will sing your name. In their best Lemmy voice, of course.

JediTricks
01-09-2007, 09:20 PM
Kids don't want those. Kids want a truck or a jet that transform into a robot. What the hell kind of play value do those things have? (Optimus transforms into something you can throw... into the trash.)Maybe kids want robots that turn into dull lumps of doody, in which case Hasbro's cornering the ****ing market with these turds.

plasticfetish
01-09-2007, 11:17 PM
Dull lumps of flying doody.

Sometimes I really wonder if Hasbro bothers to play test anything with kids at all.

Tycho
01-10-2007, 12:08 AM
Myself and 2 other guys were looking at Transformers in Wal-Mart's toy isle tonight. Everyone was at least in their mid-20's. I talked to one of them for quite a while.

They had all the Classics (Grimlock was available a'plenty, btw) but I don't think Jetfire has shipped yet. (Oh, Megatron was sold out).

So we were discussing the toys. He said that TF2005 and other sites had reports of there being $150 Transformers planned for retail, like some kind of large Masterpiece BumbleBee amongst others. I'm not sure I buy that, but he said some of the sites are reporting that there will be very high-end figures spawned from the movie. (We can hope!)

Oh, they had key chains that transformed that were made out of the old minibots but I think they were even smaller - G1 Swerve, BumbleBee, Cliffjumper, and Brawn.

El Chuxter
01-10-2007, 09:47 AM
I've seen Jetfire twice now, both times at Wal-Mart.

Dominic Guglieme
01-10-2007, 11:11 AM
Hookay:

I saw the Megatron/Prime Ultimate Battle pack yesterday. Oddly, it does not seem to say "Classics" on the package anywhere. Regardless of packaging, the Megatron in fact looks awful, and the Prime while looking good in 'bot mode is discouraging based on the alt-mode pics. (And, according to DVD's review, the gimmick punch is breakable.) Needless to say, I skipped it.



I did however grab the Demolition team.

One thing this set does well is that it manages complex Transforms for the size well enough. If this where the only set to use the "complex transform" gimmick (ala the old Street Speed Team), it would be more forgiveable. As it is now, this set beats the Dinosaurs in terms of engineering, and the Rescue Team on aesthetics. (The Rescue team does not even hold a consistent internal aesthetic.)

The basic idea for this team is battle-field engineers. After weakenign enemy fortifications, this team is well equipped to build up their own earth-works and such.

The 'dozer is the weakest of the lot, having the most kibble (not a terrible amont though), and the most breakable limbs (the legs are just pegged together at the knee, and if they ever wear out and become loose....).

The tank has an interesting transform, with more steps than the package art might lead one to believe. It looks the most like a small draft of a larger more complex toy. The biggest downside is that it barely stands on its own. (I managed it, bet very tenuously.)

The dump truck is the most intuitive of the lot. It does not do anything especially well, but this toy is defintely more than the sum of its transform steps.


This is one of the more dissapointing Minicon sets I have purchases, but given the new standard used by the designers, it is a good set all the same. Any single member of this team would make a great "packed-in" Minicon paired with a larger toy. But, as a team, the mechanical association is a bit too loose.

Grade: B/C

JediTricks
01-10-2007, 08:35 PM
They had all the Classics (Grimlock was available a'plenty, btw) but I don't think Jetfire has shipped yet. (Oh, Megatron was sold out).Jetfire's been out for a month.


Oh, they had key chains that transformed that were made out of the old minibots but I think they were even smaller - G1 Swerve, BumbleBee, Cliffjumper, and Brawn.Yeah, I saw them at my WM, $3 a piece, I almost bought all 4 (btw, it's Windcharger, not Swerve). They're the same size as the originals, I believe mostly the same molds for the most part.

El Chuxter
01-10-2007, 08:52 PM
Jetfire's been out for a month.

Almost two. (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showpost.php?p=513556&postcount=1527)

Tycho
01-10-2007, 11:55 PM
OK, guys. OK guys. I've barely been in a toy store for 2 months or more.

I will go when I can get Kashyyyk Clones (3 3/4") and Hoth / Bespin Galactic Heroes (just by coincidental visit - I don't "hunt" these), and when Transformers Ravage and Rumble ship (Alternators).

There's nothing else I think I want until the TAC hits in March or wherenver.

darthvyn
01-13-2007, 08:28 PM
picked up classics grimlock - i'm diggin' him. not the best of the line, but hardly the worst (i won't be picking up astrotrain anytime soon...)

figrin bran
01-13-2007, 08:40 PM
I FINALLY found classics jetfire!!!! :D

El Chuxter
01-14-2007, 04:37 PM
Vyn, Astrotrain's the worst, but not so bad I wouldn't recommend him.

Were you able to transform the big dumb future radio, or did you leave him as a T-Rex?

darthvyn
01-14-2007, 05:46 PM
Were you able to transform the big dumb future radio, or did you leave him as a T-Rex?

he's been back and forth a couple of times, but displayed as the rex... all others (prime, bumblebee, hotrodimus, and starscream) are in bot mode.

did you find him difficult? i can see a little difficulty, but it's nothing like his mustang incarnation!

Phantom-like Menace
01-15-2007, 12:30 AM
Yeah, I saw them at my WM, $3 a piece, I almost bought all 4 (btw, it's Windcharger, not Swerve). They're the same size as the originals, I believe mostly the same molds for the most part.

I had no idea those were coming out or were out or anything, but my friend and I saw them this morning. I knew I had to get Bumblebee and Cliffjumper, then decided I needed Brawn, then decided I might as well get Windcharger. I set them all up with my GI (reissue) Optimus Prime. I didn't expect nostalgia to fall into my lap like that.

Adam
01-15-2007, 01:37 AM
I have been busy and haven't been able to post much (darn you world of warcraft!) but I have to pop in and say that Mirage is the bee's knees.

figrin bran
01-15-2007, 01:51 AM
I have been busy and haven't been able to post much (darn you world of warcraft!) but I have to pop in and say that Mirage is the bee's knees.

I take it that you mean Classics Mirage? Just wait until you get Jetfire! It's already one of the best TF's in my collection!

El Chuxter
01-15-2007, 10:34 AM
Jetfire may possible unseat 20th Anniversary Prime as the best toy ever.

I think he's a shoo-in for Best of 2006.

Adam
01-15-2007, 12:04 PM
I take it that you mean Classics Mirage? Just wait until you get Jetfire! It's already one of the best TF's in my collection!

Oh I already have Jetfire. He's a'ight. Deffinately the best of the Jetfire's but not my favorite by a long shot. Classics Mirage is like a tiny god!

Tycho
01-15-2007, 05:53 PM
You know, a lot of robots have something over Jetfire because of CHARACTER.

Mirage is a comlicated and awesome personality, let alone Optimus Prime.

I don't know the rich tapestry of Transformer comics that you might El Chuxter, so I'm probably missing something. But they used Jetfire as a cargo plane (figuratively speaking) in the G1 cartoon and perhaps the only thing interesting about him was his conflicted loyalty to Starscream from their "good 'ol days." - And those never explain how scientists wind up as fighter planes.

Tycho
01-15-2007, 07:22 PM
This is cool!

Yup. It's the prototype for the regular (or Deluxe) Optimus Prime figure from the movie!

I like this one as well as Ratchet.

I don't usually post the stuff I'm not fond of. This is OPTIMUS though!

Depending upon his size (this would be so sweet if it were MPE sized!!!)

I might have to get this one.

Tycho
01-15-2007, 09:18 PM
Here are Megatron and Optimus Prime.

This is not the same Prime figure as in my previous post but appears to be a less detailed version.

The previous one stands a better chance of being an MPE.

figrin bran
01-15-2007, 09:22 PM
You know, a lot of robots have something over Jetfire because of CHARACTER.



Character??? let me look on my list of criteria for well produced toys...Articulation, Sculpt, Paint apps.

darnit, i don't see "character". i guess it means i'm a shallow toy collector only going for the superficial and such :p

Tycho
01-15-2007, 09:36 PM
No. I'm just less into "toys" per se, and more a fan of the fictional story behind things. Then I hope very cool or at least decent memorobilia represents such characters.

Jetfire never had a story written for him that resonated with me.

plasticfetish
01-16-2007, 02:34 PM
This is cool!

That is cool... very cool. Love to see what the final all plastic painted version looks like. Also curious to see how this one relates to the film (if it really does), and how it relates to the other figures that we've just seen. (I'm not so into those ones.)

Dominic Guglieme
01-16-2007, 03:21 PM
Tycho, if you are so into the story, more than the toys, then why the interest in Alternators? That has no story to speak of, and the Japanese story is awful.

Jetfire had some good moments in the UK comics, but generally I agree, the character is something of a sypher.

I was never bothered by scientists taking military forms. Science and warfare are hardly exclusive to each-other.

Tycho
01-16-2007, 04:02 PM
Dominic: I pretend the Alternators fill out my G1 roles for my heroes and villains - SideSwipe is still a red sports car, that sort of thing. The headsculpts on the Alternators are certainly true to their G1 cartoon appearances.

I have to agree with you about science and warfare now that I thought about it. Starscream seems sort of younger and less experienced next to Megatron - the classic upstart like Anakin next to Palpatine, so I always found it hard to envision him as a serious scientist, alien from Cybertron or not. Then in reverse, you also have to question his qualifications as the Decepticon's military air commander.

It's funny, as he was always my favorite Decepticon, but I seriously question his competence.

PlasticFetish: A fan did custom work with Photoshop to paint this one, but it sort of goes along with your request and looks great, though not authentic (no flames - but that's not necessarily a bad thing).

Meanwhile, I've seen about all of this movie's mainline robots now (I'm talking about the TOYS). Here's my call:

Optimus (this one in particular) - awesome
Ratchet - really cool
Jazz - pretty good
BumbleBee - disappointing
Ironhide - no thanks

Megatron - very nice
Starscream - not working
Frenzy (it's been confirmed it's not Soundwave) - not inspiring
Barricade - cheap
Bonecrusher - cheap (I think I only saw the low pricepoint version)
Scorponok - eh - I don't like the idea too much anyway
Brawl - cheap - but again, I think I only saw a lowball price version
Blackout - might be very cool if well-articulated

Anyway, here's the FAN PHOTO-PAINTED Prime:

Dominic Guglieme
01-16-2007, 06:17 PM
Okay: In terms of toys, I agree about Prime. I have not seen much in the way of pics on many of the others.

I like what I saw for Megatron though. That tank fellah (I have not yet matched names reflexively) looks fun, price point be damned. Lil' Scout-scale tanks are fun, as we should have learned from RiD.

I disagree fully about Barricade (assuming that is the police car). That thing looks fun. It also has the distinction of being (to my knowldege the only TF to transform into an accurate looking contemporary police car. The Alternator Prowl is too sporty looking, while the Spychanger scale police care mold is anachronistic.


As for Starscream, (as I got older), I saw him as the academic type more than anything else. (And, after finishing a BA in English, I can tell you, that analogy works really well.) He wants power to test out his whims and whatnot. Like the stereotype professor (or even pundit), he thinks the Decepticons would be better off under his leadership, rather than a lout like Megatron.

Tycho
01-17-2007, 03:32 AM
Go to www.TFW2005.com for the full-sized better pictures, but this one (Blackout) is awesome!!!

I hope this is at least decently scaled to about the same size as MPE Starscream. I don't have my hopes up, but maybe soon we'll see size comparisons. This is the finished product on Blackout. Too cool.

I may have to buy 5 movie figures (I've seen them all now) and I like:

Optimus Prime
Ratchet
Jazz
Megatron
Blackout

The rest kind of bug me and I really want Alts and MPEs, but that's neither here nor there. This Blackout figure is articulated and really well sculpted and just SWEET!

figrin bran
01-18-2007, 12:05 AM
The rest kind of bug me and I really want Alts and MPEs, but that's neither here nor there. This Blackout figure is articulated and really well sculpted and just SWEET!

I don't think i like the story behind him :p

Tycho
01-18-2007, 01:15 AM
I don't think i like the story behind him :p

Good one.

I don't think there is a story behind Blackout. He's just Decepticon cannon fodder for this movie.

Why is that different from Jetfire's resurrection from the snow and subsequent crash landing back into it?

Transfans made a huge deal out of JetFire, like SW fans did for Boba Fett. Sometimes I hate the illogically popular guy. In Star Wars, Uncle Owen had more character development than Fett until AOTC - and even then they've been about equal. But Fett, and in turn, Jetfire, have been cult-worshiped.

I guess Blackout is too "young" to have that kind of following yet, so he doesn't annoy me.

I've read a not-too-detailed script that didn't clearly lay it out for me how Blackout dies, but in my mind there's this scene:

a helicopter flies in low over the streets of Los Angeles where a deadly firefight is erupting between Autobots and Decepticons.

The chopper targets advanced Cybertronian death rays at one particular Autobot or another. Just before it has the chance to fire...

From the roof of an adjacent parking structure, level with the chopper's hovering elevation, a huge red semi-truck with flames blazed on its front end smashes through the brick retaining wall at the edge of the building. It is driving at nearly 150 mph!

This flaming semi-rig crashes straight through the MH3 Chopper, shattering it into pieces over the streets of Los Angeles before it ever gets a chance to fire. The truck, hurtling down at incredible velocity suddenly transforms into OPTIMUS PRIME and instead of crashes, springs off his hands, rolls out of his dive, and comes up firing at Decepticons as "The Touch" blares out of movie screen speakers and the smoldering parts of Blackout reign down like fireworks in the sky!

I have tears in my eyes as I type this. OK - I have a serious thing for Optimus Prime!

But he's going to make Blackout "one" with the blacktop!!!

JediTricks
01-18-2007, 09:39 PM
I had no idea those were coming out or were out or anything, but my friend and I saw them this morning. I knew I had to get Bumblebee and Cliffjumper, then decided I needed Brawn, then decided I might as well get Windcharger. I set them all up with my GI (reissue) Optimus Prime. I didn't expect nostalgia to fall into my lap like that.I was totally surprised to see them to, I knew Bumblebee and Cliffjumper have been out for about 5 years yet I had NEVER seen either in person, then all of a sudden there they are plus 2 more smacking me right in the face.



Oh I already have Jetfire. He's a'ight. Deffinately the best of the Jetfire's but not my favorite by a long shot. Classics Mirage is like a tiny god!I can totally see where you're coming from on this, he's not my favorite of the Classics but he's darn close, he's closer than Jetfire who is also great.



You know, a lot of robots have something over Jetfire because of CHARACTER.

Mirage is a comlicated and awesome personality, let alone Optimus Prime.
Classics Mirage is awesome as a toy, he could be named "Nimrod" and still be supremely cool, He's got a great-looking alt mode, one of the best transformations, and a heavily-articulated bot mode that looks cool and can take some incredible poses.



This is cool! Yup. It's the prototype for the regular (or Deluxe) Optimus Prime figure from the movie! I like this one as well as Ratchet. I don't usually post the stuff I'm not fond of. This is OPTIMUS though! Depending upon his size (this would be so sweet if it were MPE sized!!!) I might have to get this one.It is definitely not deluxe-sized, it looks closer to Ultra or larger ($25 is Ultra), you can tell by the size of the screws if nothing else. Here's my comments from when I first saw it:
The hands do look pretty good, and I like the pipes into long shotguns a lot. I don't like the weird feet or the forced piecey look though, and it seems like a LOT of the truck cab is a fat chunk of kibble on his back. Heh, I just noticed something about the pipes/guns, the canister under the pipe makes this thing look a bit like a super soaker. :pI would like to see the smokestack gun barrels slide in and out, that'd be a nifty gimmick.
Here are Megatron and Optimus Prime.

This is not the same Prime figure as in my previous post but appears to be a less detailed version.

The previous one stands a better chance of being an MPE.I think you'd be better off not trying to compare these things to Takara's Masterpiece line, there may never be involvement with it.

Anyway, this second one is clearly the larger version, here's my original comments:
I think that's a larger scale item, something at Super ($40) or even Supreme ($50) judging by the sizes of the screw holes. Prime's right hand is actually a left hand. :p Looks like this Prime is a lot of toy and with electronics, but the kibble feels like utter BULK now. Megatron I loathe, in bot mode he looks more like an alien wearing bone armor than a transforming robot, and his alt mode looks like a big ol' flying nothing. Prime's forearms are just large bricks.

Character??? let me look on my list of criteria for well produced toys...Articulation, Sculpt, Paint apps.

darnit, i don't see "character". i guess it means i'm a shallow toy collector only going for the superficial and such :pRock on, Figgy B! :D I'm right there with ya!



A fan did custom work with Photoshop to paint this one, but it sort of goes along with your request and looks great, though not authentic (no flames - but that's not necessarily a bad thing).

Anyway, here's the FAN PHOTO-PAINTED Prime:Nice Digibash (that's what they're called, "digital kit-bashing") but the toy seems kinda sad colored in, definitely a step down. That often happens with these clay-gray prototype models, the neutral color shows the tighter lines and detailing.



Go to www.TFW2005.com (http://www.tfw2005.com/) for the full-sized better pictures, but this one (Blackout) is awesome!!!

I hope this is at least decently scaled to about the same size as MPE Starscream. I don't have my hopes up, but maybe soon we'll see size comparisons. This is the finished product on Blackout. Too cool. This Blackout figure is articulated and really well sculpted and just SWEET!It looks like a deluxe to me, Mega ($20) at the most, and I don't especially care for it, the larger-scaled prototype looked better and I didn't care for it either.


I don't think there is a story behind Blackout. He's just Decepticon cannon fodder for this movie. From what I heard, he's supposed to be the most powerful and dangerous Decepticon in the movie (besides Megatron), his EMP blasts being an especially big deal to the humans.

Tycho
01-18-2007, 09:49 PM
(on Blackout):
From what I heard, he's supposed to be the most powerful and dangerous Decepticon in the movie (besides Megatron), his EMP blasts being an especially big deal to the humans.

That's cool, but he'll be dead in under 2 1/2 hours or less when the Autobots get down to business! :thumbsup:

JediTricks
01-18-2007, 09:51 PM
It helps when none of the robots are actual characters that the audience gives a crap about.


Check it out, plush Optimus Prime:
http://www.seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=9251

And Optimash Prime, the TF-themed Mr Potato Head:
http://www.seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=9250
(that one doesn't work for me the way Darth Tater did)


A new "Real Gear" figure (that's what the little guys are called, it's a sub-line from the movie, they're the most Transformery things in the line so far), Zoom Out, a small digital video camera:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280072104649

This is the first one of these guys I don't care for, his shoulders, simple TF, and blocky body ruin it for me.

"Gameboy" the handheld guy, I don't like his coloring, they dropped the ball there, and Hasbro has some nerve using that name for the character. I kinda like that the back of his head is transparent though, looks like there's something interesting going on there. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280070802347

The binocular figure is "Longview", here's some new pics:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=119450
I originally didn't like how this guy was turning out, he didn't have the same level of detail the others did, but seeing him transformed better shows that he's got some real style going on in robot mode and I like how it comes off, I even like the name. The only thing I don't dig now is the "cybertron eyes" look of the business-end of the binoculars, it looks like a big pair of glasses.

All the "Real Gear" figures that have video displays are showing images from the Cybertron line, it makes me think these were planned for that and not this movie.

Tycho
01-18-2007, 11:27 PM
Well, aside from the 2 Decepticon "leaders," and the Autobots, I think it is very intentional that the other robots are no one that the audience will care about. Those of us that read the script know that ONE of the robots we DO care about, from G1 past, will die, and the impact is greater when that is a single death we can focus on and regret. Remember, in the '86 movie, "everyone died," and we came out of theaters groaning about that to some degree. (I mean Wheeljack wasn't even given a speaking line in that movie! You just saw Arcee looking at his smoldering body).

So yeah, those of you who know which G1 major player I'm talking about will have more to say about that in July than if it was a whole 1984 catalog reading of epithets.

Meanwhile, ummm, I know someone who might be interested in that Plush Toy and the Potato Head, but I can't name names. He wants people to think he's more sophistocated than that.

Now I'm waiting for the M&M's figures. :rolleyes: What will those be called? The Auto-M's and Decepti-M's? "Transforms in your mouth, not in your hands."

darthvyn
01-19-2007, 07:54 AM
i just got TF:C mirage - he's IS the bee's knees. i really like the drastic proportions - very cartoony but in a really cool way. however, this raises a dilemma... now i wish they had gone more cartoony with the entire line! could you imagine a TF:C line in a cartoon style like the clone wars animated series figures? that would've been really cool.

i also like how his head ends up in the cockpit of the racer. i saw jetfire in the times sq. TRU, and noticed the same thing for him - that's really cool, because as a kid i always wondered how they saw where they were going in alt mode.

El Chuxter
01-19-2007, 10:06 AM
Funny, I like Mirage but don't think nearly as highly about him as everyone else seems to. He's very gappy. :)

Dominic Guglieme
01-19-2007, 12:54 PM
The potato-head stuff ruins it for me. Of course, unlike that waste of plastic Darth Tater, this one might actually be good for kit-bashing. (Probably not, but one must be optimistic, no pun intended.)

And, I disagree with Tycho. The death he references in the new movie really is not that big a deal. Unless you are a fan who cares about such things, it will simply be "Megatron kills a random Autobot", nothing more.

Tycho
01-19-2007, 02:50 PM
Dominic: you kit bash Super Mr. Potato Heads? OK, SirStevesGuideToPsychologicalServices will be online shortly I hope. ;)

It's OK. I'm going to call your parents. Now please just make yourself comfortable in our "time out box."

As far as "Megatron kills a random Autobot," - it may seem that way if your only frame of reference is the movie. If you're a G1 cartoon fan, then you're sort of more invested in this character, and if you bring that with you into the movie, you'll be like: "Darn! NNNNNnnnnnnoooooooooOOOO!" in your best Darth Vader impersonation.

But as I noted, this character won't have much character development as one of 13 robots with screen time and only that to go with in around 2 hours total being shared with the rest - and the time shared is actually closer to 1 hour as all the robots might not have made an appearance while Michael Bay's "discovery process" is running the clock.

Dominic Guglieme
01-19-2007, 04:20 PM
I was thinking the Auto-bits more than the plasti-spud for kitbashing.


As for :Jazz :, you just restated my point. Unless you know and care, Megatron just kills a random Autobot. It is hardly a major moment in the movie. And, as the movie deviates so much form the franchise, and is not even that good, nobody is likely to care over-much.


But, speaking of being a kitbashing psycho, has anyone seen that Kurt Cobain toy? ehehehehehehehehe, All I need is a dremel tool, some red paint, and a shot-gun from the McFarlane Monsters wolfman set..........:yes:

JediTricks
01-20-2007, 02:45 PM
Here's the "Real Gear" figures in package, I think I like this concept:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1942

So, these are on movie cards, but no actual mention of the movie, that furthers my theory that these are meant to be in the Cybertron line.



i just got TF:C mirage - he's IS the bee's knees. i really like the drastic proportions - very cartoony but in a really cool way. however, this raises a dilemma... now i wish they had gone more cartoony with the entire line! could you imagine a TF:C line in a cartoon style like the clone wars animated series figures? that would've been really cool.That's what they're threatening to do with the next TV show, "Transformers:Heroes", and personally, I don't care for it, it's a very fine line between realistic cartoony proportions and downright silliness, Hasbro's proved they can't tell the difference on their own (TF:The Movie figures, some Armada entries). But that's just my tastes.



Funny, I like Mirage but don't think nearly as highly about him as everyone else seems to. He's very gappy. :)
What are you talking about? Vehicle mode is among the least-gappy ever, and he's got a solid chest. Perhaps you mean about how thin he is? That's not gappy though.


Dangit Dom! Your white spoiler text was way too easy to accidentally read. :( I've changed it to full-invisible.

Tycho
01-20-2007, 04:48 PM
What JT, you didn't know ::: (highlight spoiler text you already read in Dom's post): Jazz gets killed? :::

I think that unless he gets any screen time for character development, which it sounds like he won't from the script I read, only G1 cartoon fans might care.

Unless of course they make some sort of tragic funeral scene after the battle.

Then BumbleBee will say, "What will happen to me now?"

And Prime will respond, "The Matrix has given me permission to train you. You will complete Driver's Ed. I promise."

Chaddymac
01-21-2007, 07:25 PM
Figgy found me a Jetfire! Thanks, Figrin!

El Chuxter
01-22-2007, 11:08 AM
The WM in Hemet, CA, which didn't have any Classics figures at all until a couple of weeks ago, apparently restocked this morning. Among a surprisingly large number of Grimlocks and Mirages, I found two gems:

Cliffjumper and Ramjet!!

Yes, they're out. Check your Wal-Marts.

Ramjet appears to have some re-tooling of the nosecone to allow for the "conehead" the character had in the cartoons. (I believe this would be impossible with the Starscream sculpt.) This disappoints me a little, since they could've done some tiny modifications to Cliffjumper so that he's not just a red Bumblebee. But with the history of there being red Bumblebees and yellow Cliffjumpers, I don't mind.

Chaddymac
01-22-2007, 07:25 PM
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10695&mode=retail

Whoa. That's kinda cool.

JediTricks
01-22-2007, 09:02 PM
The WM in Hemet, CA, which didn't have any Classics figures at all until a couple of weeks ago, apparently restocked this morning. Among a surprisingly large number of Grimlocks and Mirages, I found two gems:

Cliffjumper and Ramjet!!

Yes, they're out. Check your Wal-Marts.

Ramjet appears to have some re-tooling of the nosecone to allow for the "conehead" the character had in the cartoons. (I believe this would be impossible with the Starscream sculpt.) This disappoints me a little, since they could've done some tiny modifications to Cliffjumper so that he's not just a red Bumblebee. But with the history of there being red Bumblebees and yellow Cliffjumpers, I don't mind.Wow, no way, that's crazy! I can't believe these things are out now, the Ultra Magnus/Skywarp 2pack has been found in the US as well, so that's everything in the Classics line except wave 2 minicons.

Hasbro has gotten really cheap with repaints not having mold changes over the years, they always were to a degree but it's gotten worse.

El Chuxter
01-22-2007, 10:22 PM
...so that's everything in the Classics line except wave 2 minicons.

So, from the POV of folks like me and Tycho and darthvyn, that's everything in the Classics line. :p

BTW, I asked at actionfigs.com, but no one's responded yet. What's the deal on Devastator? He was announced well before several SW toys that have actually shown up recently. Is he still scheduled to be released, or cancelled? I know he's inaccurate, but he looks cool enough that I can forgive that.

Tycho
01-22-2007, 11:50 PM
I know it's really Takara, but I'd buy MPE Starscream over again in Skywarp and Thundercracker paint schemes, however, I'd like to at least see them over a new head sculpt mold for each personality.

figrin bran
01-22-2007, 11:59 PM
So, from the POV of folks like me and Tycho and darthvyn, that's everything in the Classics line. :p

BTW, I asked at actionfigs.com, but no one's responded yet. What's the deal on Devastator? He was announced well before several SW toys that have actually shown up recently. Is he still scheduled to be released, or cancelled? I know he's inaccurate, but he looks cool enough that I can forgive that.


you speak of this? http://tformers.com/transformers_database/classics/64/constructicon_devastator_Decepticons_Combiner.html

it ain't out yet

JediTricks
01-23-2007, 05:20 AM
Painted MP Megatron:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=121017
I look at that thing and think it's amazing, then I see the legs from the front and it's like a kick to the stomach.

Classics Ramjet & Cliffjumper:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7517/tf0mf.jpg

Ramjet's colors on card seem more Autobot than I was expecting. Hunting this one down should be a real bummer, but I'll do it.


BTW, I asked at actionfigs.com, but no one's responded yet. What's the deal on Devastator? He was announced well before several SW toys that have actually shown up recently. Is he still scheduled to be released, or cancelled? I know he's inaccurate, but he looks cool enough that I can forgive that.I haven't been reading the forums there in a while, just not enough time in the day. Devastator (the repaint of Energon Constructicon Maximus) is still coming out as a WM exclusive, just not sure when; here's a few new pics to tide you over (different from those Hasbro PR shots Figgy just linked): http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=7018&dispsize=800&start=0

Dominic Guglieme
01-23-2007, 12:09 PM
So, from the POV of folks like me and Tycho and darthvyn, that's everything in the Classics line. :p




The Minicons technically are not Classics anyway. It does not say "Classics" on the packaging, and the molds were in fact designed for Cybertron.


Wow, 4 months with no new product. I have heard rumours of some Cybertron repacks, but it looks like we are in a holding pattern until May or so.

Tycho
01-23-2007, 01:12 PM
Alternator Ravage is out in England! :mad:

We need him and Rumble stocked here in the US.

You should be able to order or at least Pre-Order the MPE 05 Megatron as well, though I am probably going to hold off:

1) I want to hear if folks received him or US Customs confiscated him - if he ships as a gun especially (dumb idea but Starscream ships as a jet).

2) I want to find out where people ordered and received him WITHOUT orange caps in the barrel

3) I've been notified by Michael Bay that Megatron is a Cybertronian Jet in Alt Mode, and I want to learn if it's possible that a MPE or reasonably approximate size of THAT will be made into a toy that could combat MPE 01 Prime.

Dominic Guglieme
01-23-2007, 06:07 PM
I remember a few years ago, some importers would actually ship pre-transformed re-issue Megatrons. Essentially, a toy scalper over in Japan would buy Megatrons at a local TrU. He would then spend time carefully opening the packages, then shipping a loose transformed Megatrons (along with empty pacakges) to a US dealer, who would restore the package.

It worked, but it greatly increased the cost of the Megatrons.

Of course, trusting it to fate (and not opening and transforming the toys) also increased costs, as dealers would use successfully shipping Megatrons to cover costs and risks on future orders. Essentially, people who bought Megatrons paid a kind of insurance against possible failed shipments later.

Tycho
01-23-2007, 11:00 PM
OK, I don't know the price of MPE 05 yet, but Starscream was $97.12 shipped (as a fighter jet, btw).

Rounding that to $100 for the example - if you can afford to lose that, you can order it direct from Japan even if they ship it as a gun. If you receive it, or it ships as a robot and customs doesn't make a stink about it, then you're in the clear.

I'm not sure if it will ever become a legal issue, should someone use a Megatron toy in a crime. It will eventually be tried I'm sure, but we all might have gotten ours (without the orange tips) by then.

Futhering the story though - how is an American retailer who plans to put orange tips on them going to import say even 20 of them for resale? It will look like an alQaeda arms shipment coming through. Weren't there 19 hijackers with box cutters before? 20 handguns would be enough to look suspicious. I used that "small" amount because I'm going to make the next point.

20 guns at $100 each is $2,000. While maybe you can afford to lose $100 if you're unlucky - hey it could happen in Vegas - $2,000 is a larger loss for Mom & Pop shops, which is the category that the majority of retailers would belong to. Should Hasbro touch this one, Target and Toys R Us might refuse to sell it - and Wal-Mart might even go there, but they would all be most definitely adding the orange tip to it and making some kind of deal with Takara to do that in-factory, pre-shipping, thus jacking the cost a little. I don't think Mom & Pop shops have the market-demand pull to get Takara to make those conversions in house. Furthermore, I think Takara produces based on estimates for their sales in the Japanese market, and American and British consumption is just icing on the cake. But any further price increase might make Wal-Mart, Target, and TRU hesitant to carry the product, as nealy $100 Transformers have been rare items in their stores, though they did carry MPE 01 Prime.

And I don't think I even need to bother saying it, but I will - ordering more than 20 MPE 05's risk greater losses than $2,000.

Val Da Car
01-23-2007, 11:07 PM
Is this the TRU exclusive Soundwave?

http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/ProductsByBrand.htm?BR=793&SBR=396&ID=18829

figrin bran
01-23-2007, 11:24 PM
Val, that Soundwave is not the TRU exclusive G1 reissue Soundwave but a titanium version that is available everywhere. the reviews of the titanium version don't seem that favorable so i would go for the TRU exclusive if you wanted a Soundwave.

plasticfetish
01-24-2007, 01:34 AM
Futhering the story though - how is an American retailer who plans to put orange tips on them going to import say even 20 of them for resale? It will look like an alQaeda arms shipment coming through.Well... when the boxes of orange tip Megatrons are packed in a crate with thousands of other crates on a huge container ship, I don't think it'll be quite the same.

Just out of curiousity, have we heard (or seen) for sure that he's boxed in gun mode?

Tycho
01-24-2007, 02:01 AM
Just out of curiousity, have we heard (or seen) for sure that he's boxed in gun mode?

No. We don't know anything yet. But that's not the point. A child (or any bank robber) can turn Megatron into a somewhat scary replica weapon and go out and cause trouble with it.

Remember, you can be charged with armed robbery even if you pass a bank teller a note saying you have a gun, but not actually show a weapon of any sort. Actually, you can point a finger and say you have an invisible gun, and they are trained to comply and give you money while they hit the silent alarm and let the police and court system handle you.

This whole dilemma is interesting because a criminal can paint an orange tip on a REAL gun for whatever advantage it gives them, and a mechanically inclined person might be able to reconfigure a SuperSoaker to fire real bullets. All that being said, it's not smart to even carry the orange tip Megatron in gun mode out in front of police officers, but the law was made so that politicians could look like they were doing something for concerned parents. I think concerned parents should teach their kids not to ever hold onto any kind of real or replica weapon in front of police until they clear it - such that if you are having a Nerf gun battle with your friend in your yard, and a cop comes by, put it down until they know what it is and why you have it! (And I'm all for gun rights - just being sensible about it).

So in conclusion, an orange tip on Megatron is only going to ruin the toy, not make it safer most likely.

And as far as your first comment "when the boxes of orange tip Megatrons are packed in a crate with thousands of other crates on a huge container ship, I don't think it'll be quite the same," if the customs teams were actually doing their job like the 9-11 Commission recommended, this country would actually be safer. Honestly, I think they should search every container to not be hypocritical. That being somewhat impossible, I will probably be able to order an unaltered Megatron, and then I'll buy the components to make my own nuclear Mouse Droid the following week.

plasticfetish
01-24-2007, 04:52 AM
So in conclusion, an orange tip on Megatron is only going to ruin the toy, not make it safer most likely.Oh, so that's the point.

Chaddymac
01-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Well... when the boxes of orange tip Megatrons are packed in a crate with thousands of other crates on a huge container ship, I don't think it'll be quite the same.

Just out of curiousity, have we heard (or seen) for sure that he's boxed in gun mode?
I've heard it confirmed that Megatron will ship in robot mode (Like Prime). I don't know where, because the article's at least a month old, but if I find it again I'll let you know.

JediTricks
01-24-2007, 10:05 PM
A buddy of mine in Las Vegas picked up wave 3 deluxes and Soundwave & Rodimus Prime Titanium Series 6"ers.


The Minicons technically are not Classics anyway. It does not say "Classics" on the packaging, and the molds were in fact designed for Cybertron. They're in a Classics assortment number, that makes them technically Classics as it does the 2 2packs, neither of which say "Classics" on them I believe. Not to put too fine a point on this, but it's not like the word "Classics" appears in a major title anywhere on any of the cards or boxes of the deluxes or voyagers, the only use is a small "Classic Deluxe" and "Classic Voyager" in 1 small spot.



Wow, 4 months with no new product. I have heard rumours of some Cybertron repacks, but it looks like we are in a holding pattern until May or so.Yeah, sucks, not that I was really looking forward to TF movie stuff but no TF stuff stinks. At least there's 6" Titanium Series still.



I remember a few years ago, some importers would actually ship pre-transformed re-issue Megatrons. Essentially, a toy scalper over in Japan would buy Megatrons at a local TrU. He would then spend time carefully opening the packages, then shipping a loose transformed Megatrons (along with empty pacakges) to a US dealer, who would restore the package.

It worked, but it greatly increased the cost of the Megatrons.

Of course, trusting it to fate (and not opening and transforming the toys) also increased costs, as dealers would use successfully shipping Megatrons to cover costs and risks on future orders. Essentially, people who bought Megatrons paid a kind of insurance against possible failed shipments later.Haw! That's a good scam! When that reissue came out over there, the Frank & Sons guys had a bunch of 'em - still do. Customs doesn't even check most of this stuff, and doesn't care about even more of it.

Tycho
01-25-2007, 06:19 AM
I made this tribute picture to the man behind the 'Bot I admire most.

Dominic Guglieme
01-25-2007, 04:06 PM
You got me on the assortment numbers JT. Dang, it looks like I do own some classics. Now, who to give them to........(Gotta keep the ol' collection pure.....:yes: )

Tycho
01-25-2007, 05:51 PM
Here's OPTIMASH PRIME!

"One shall stand and one shall fry!"

"Until all are peeled!"

"Fry-dom is the right of all spudding beings."

Dominic Guglieme
01-25-2007, 07:18 PM
Not bad. Not bad at all. Still not gonna buy the s(tu)pud thing, but not bad. (Yes, I am reaching with "s(tu)pud", but work with me here.)

Tycho
01-25-2007, 07:21 PM
I thought of another line:

"Arial-Tots: prepare to Super-Size!"

kool-aid killer
01-26-2007, 11:51 AM
You guys see these:

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10698&mode=retail&picture=out

Or what about this:

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10695&mode=retail

Courtesy of BigBadToyStore.com

darthvyn
01-26-2007, 12:27 PM
the transforming half-scale shoes are totally retarded, but the transforming soundwave mp3 player is GENIUS! not coincidentally, my iPod's name is "soundwave"...

DarkArtist
01-26-2007, 12:32 PM
That Soundwave is awesome. would love to get this. I haven't got an Ipod and was thinking of picking one up some time in the summer so this might be on the list.
The sneakers are totally lame. I can't believe someone woould think this would sell. Can you imagie the look on some kid's face if these shoes were real. I mean here they are walking down the street wearing their hip new sneakers and suddenly the shoes transform and run the other way ?

darthvyn
01-26-2007, 12:46 PM
Can you imagie the look on some kid's face if these shoes were real.

i'd think it would be a look of pain, considering they're half-scale. i don't get that... why half-scale? at least if they were full-size shoes, you might be able to get away with them as a gag or something. i dunno...

Tycho
01-26-2007, 04:06 PM
That's nothing. Wait until Toy Fare when the reveal the transforming automatic pet feeders!

figrin bran
01-27-2007, 07:26 PM
i got Classics Skywarp/Ultra Magnus from my local target today. they put out 6 of them on the shelves. DPCI if anyone needs it is 087 06 1191

it's amazing what a repaint can do b/c Skywarp looks really sharp! even though it's the same mold as Starscream, he kicks screamer's tail.

i also got Cliffjumper at the same Target. that was around 8:30 and so i assume someone beat me to Ramjet. from WM, i picked up titanium Rodimus and Soundwave.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 08:42 PM
Check out the movie figure catalog:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/557269507qwbkzz

Large, expensive Optimus and Megatron look way worse in production colors.




You got me on the assortment numbers JT. Dang, it looks like I do own some classics. Now, who to give them to........(Gotta keep the ol' collection pure.....:yes: )I see how it is with your "purity", you're a racist! You're prejudiced against the Classics! ;)



Not bad. Not bad at all. Still not gonna buy the s(tu)pud thing, but not bad. (Yes, I am reaching with "s(tu)pud", but work with me here.)Actually, I think it totally worked.



You guys see these:

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10698&mode=retail&picture=out

Or what about this:

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK10695&mode=retail

Courtesy of BigBadToyStore.comI saw. The shoes are pretty funny, they're half-scale and wearing the shoes they transform into. Not something I'd buy except if they were super cheap, but funny none the less.

The Soundwave MP3 player is almost a gimme - the question I have will be about functionality of the toy. We gave my step-dad a 1 gig MP3 player for xmas that was almost as small as an ipod shuffle but cost only $50 and had an OLED text display, so Soundwave should be cake by comparison. It reminds me of the old Takara Chronoform watch figure in the '80s, another company released a knockoff version that had a built-in radio, I bought it at KB and it was awesome.

Tycho
01-28-2007, 09:49 PM
Many characters are missing from their "catalog":

Ironhide
Ratchet
Blackout
Starscream
Frenzy
Bonecrusher
Scorponok

And are the "Leader Class" figures the same size as MPEs? I might have to get that Megatron.

JediTricks
01-28-2007, 10:29 PM
I suspect either there are more pages, or it's just a teaser catalog that came with the Protoform figures. Also, the catalogs generally only have 1 or 2 waves' worth of items and Hasbro may be staggering releases.

Leader Class was the $40 pricepoint in the Cybertron line, CY Megatron is pretty big but I don't think as big as 20th Anniversary Prime. Hasbro could have restructured the pricepoint names again, but my guess is these are in the 8 or 9" size especially with the electronics.


That Prime Voice Changer looks creepy.

figrin bran
01-29-2007, 10:33 PM
I wish that Hasbro would reconsider the way they've designed the Titanium 6" TF's. I picked up Soundwave and Rodimus over the weekend and they're subject to many of the same design flaws that have been plaguing this line from the start. They all look fine in alt mode but robot mode is a whole different story.

Soundwave looks fine except he can't stand because the legs are made up of 3 pull out pieces and because of the die cast metal, the pieces don't stay in place and sag down. In the same way that they skimp out on us with SW titaniums by putting in lots of plastic pieces, i wish they'd use more plastic on the TF's. i'd sacrifice die cast metal just to be able to have limbs that don't fall off because of too much weight and poor joint designs.

Rodimus' biggest flaw is that behind the chestplate/hood of the vehicle, there's a bunch of empty space between there and the back. It looks horrible if you look at him from the side and it would've been nice if they would've designed a way to push in the chestplate so that the empty space gets filled in.

unfortunately it doesn't look like they'll solve the loose limbs issue anytime soon. i saw that they're making a Cheetor, a Beast Machines version i think, and since his limbs are already slender, it has zero chance of being able to stand up in alt or robot mode.


Soundwave TRU reissue has been found at retail. i'm passing it up since i still have the G1 version i had as a kid.