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rbaumhauer
03-28-2004, 12:20 AM
Already, the parade of DUMB NAMES has begun for Ep3 - we've already seen General Grievous (why not General Bada$$, or General Icky? - what is this, WWE?), but now comes word (via the new character avatars on the Hyperspace message boards) of the following groaners:

Voolvif Monn (sounds like a lame Zahn-created name, but without the inevitable bucket o' hyphens)

and (wait for it)

Jasper McKnives. JASPER MCKNIVES. No doubt, he has a sidekick named Dennis O'Gunns, and speaks in a Mike Myers-provided thick-as-haggis brogue...........

CropDuster
03-28-2004, 12:50 AM
I won't allow myself to give up on the PT, but the general grievous pics gives me very little hope. I don't even know where to start... he is utterly ridiculous.
Maybe he will at least do something evil in the movie, unlike darth maul who never really did anything.
Why is there the need to insert another bad guy to pass through the movie without having an impact on the story?
I sure hope GL surprises me w/E3.

plo koon 200
03-28-2004, 01:23 AM
I think Grievous will even be worse than Maul.

Darkness Shroud
03-28-2004, 03:50 AM
Day by day my excitement for EP3 fades away.

Pendo
03-28-2004, 05:01 AM
Day by day my excitement for EP3 fades away.
I have no exceitement for Episode III :rolleyes:!

PENDO!

bobafrett
03-28-2004, 07:25 AM
Yes, from the first time I saw General Grievous I began to lose hope that Episode III would save the PT. I remember when EP I came out, and there were places you could go to have your name turned into a Star Wars Characters name by using the first 2 letters of your first name, the name of your town, and the name of your first pet, or something like that, and you could have a stupid "Star Wars" name. What happened to the simple names like Vader, or Luke, or Chewbacca? At least you could pronounce those names.

stillakid
03-28-2004, 11:19 AM
C'mon guys, we just don't like this stuff because we're adults now. Right?

:rolleyes:

;)


To any Prequel Defenders still brave enough to engage in fair and balanced discussions here, I'd love to hear anyone rebut rbaumhauer's pov with anything besides, "if we were still kids, we'd love it!" :rolleyes:

The 'Xir
03-28-2004, 01:57 PM
Well, Stilla you know I'm always up for the challenge, and a challenge it isn't seeing as how these strange compounded names have been around since SW ANH(and throughout the entire OT) with such aliens like H'nemthe and Kitik Keed'kak! Hell even Momaw Nadon probably could have been abbreviated or just had an apostrophe added somewhere in his name! However, If anyone is to blame with the rampant run of compunded names I think it soley rests with Decipher gaming and the CCG cards they produced! They were given full reign(for the most part) to invent all the minor background characters backstories that weren't deemed important to future projects! Although I think they did base alot of what they did on the OT, but actually now that I think about it who created all the gaming Source Books for the OT, was it Wizard? They too came up with alot of crazy names as well, and did so even before Decipher's cards came out in 1990 once again basing their work off the OT! They didn't just get the Idea for these names out of the blue ya know, they had to base it on something and they took the OT's lead!!!
If you guys want you can accuse the PT creators for an overuse of these type of names(maybe) throughout these new movies, well fine, but they have always been used since the OT! As far as Jasper McKnives, well I'm not positive but I'm assumming it's pronounced Mick-Neevs! Remember Although we are older, George is still making a fantasy story for kids and hopefully he's thinking of all of us older fans too; so I don't mind if there's some goofy name or character that the younger kids can enjoy as well! However, with a name like McKnives it is a great writting device to make a characters name so simple/obvious to portray an aspect of his personality or behavior! Even if it's a indirect meaning, like for example: if the character has a loud shrill that can slice through any silence like a knife! ;) Although, I would hope that the characters' M.O. does incorporate knives or knife-like untensils as his primary weapon of choice! If that's his name and he goes around shooting everything in site, well then yes that would be pretty lame! :D
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

What'cha ya got Stilla? ;)

Jangu Fett
03-28-2004, 08:24 PM
Oh, come on. General Grevious is not that bad of a name or charater design. Especially compared to someone like......................JAR JAR BINKS. :dead: There is NO WAY Grevious is worse then him.?. And besides if Grevious does in fact fight with 4 lightsabers. I think he'll be pretty cool. I mean when word first came around that Yoda was going to fight in E2, everyone I know was thinking this is going to destroy the movie. And that turned out to be awesome. Anyway the movie is still a year away. And a year before E1 hit theaters people were still saying Jar Jar was a Chewbacca like charater.

rbaumhauer
03-28-2004, 09:32 PM
Xir - West End Games made up all those names for the OT characters; they were never named in any source before West End did the RPG sourcebooks, and Decipher jumped off from that point, adding anybody else they wanted to use. The fact that the actual films have now gotten to the point where the names are WORSE than the names that WEG (and Decipher) came up with for the OT (well after the fact) is, I'm afraid, another sign of the creative bankruptcy that is running rampant through the PT.

Jangu - talk about da**ing with faint praise! So, the fact that General Grievous isn't as lame as JJB is supposed to make me feel better? Sorry, but everything I've seen of the character so far suggests that it's a pretty sorry attempt to distract from the creaky foundation of the PT with another "cool" bad guy who doesn't really add anything to the story (see "Maul, Darth").

"Yeah, he'll be this *really cool* alien/droid dude - awesome! And maybe we'll have him fight with two lightsabers! Yeah, that'll rock! We can sell all kinds of crap with his picture on it, and his name written in some jittery, hip modern font, and the action figures will sell like hotcakes!" As if any of that has anything to do with telling a story that's worth the time it will take to sit through it.

AOTC was, for most of its running time, a pretty bad movie, and Yoda's saber duel with Dooku was part of Lucas' clumsy attempts to fill audiences' heads with something "faster, more intense" in the last half hour so they would, hopefully, forget that they were laughing at and jeering the awful writing and acting for most of the movie (like they were at both screenings I saw). Lucas made a bad enough movie that he NEEDED for Yoda to fight at the end, no matter how ridiculous it was. And that's what it was, patently ridiculous - he threw all of the dignity, restraint, and implied power that Yoda was imbued with in ESB out the window for no reason beyond his own inability to come up with something truly compelling to put up on screen.

2-1B
03-28-2004, 10:52 PM
How can anybody give a flying **** about some of these names? :rolleyes: As lame as something like "Voolvif Monn" or "Jasper McKnives" sounds, I'll bet those names will never be pronounced on screen. So what's the big problem ? :rolleyes:

So many people ****ed and moaned about Elan Sleazbaggano's name but how many times did you hear his name ever said? 99% of the people who saw that movie just know him as the guy who tried to sell Obi-Wan some contraband.

Unless you're huddled around Toys R Us at midnight with the other fanboys waiting to buy all the figures, these names never need to be said. Ever.

Now as for General Grievous, I'm not sold on the name . . . it does sound somewhat dumb to me but I've warmed up to it over time. Nevertheless, the real problem here is with his inclusion in the film (I question his necessity) so his goofy name is the least of "our" worries.

:)

rbaumhauer
03-29-2004, 12:29 AM
Caesar - yeah, you probably have a point about a lot of the names not actually being said in the film (other than Grievous). Of course, Dexter Jetster is a pretty lame name, and it (kinda) made it into the script, though in shortened form, so who knows?

I'm not so much concerned about the (lame) names as I am concerned that they seem to show the same horrific lack of imagination that was so endemic in TPM and AOTC............

2-1B
03-29-2004, 12:46 AM
Dexter Jettster - HORRIBLE name. :D

But in the movie since it's just "Dex", I think it's cool. :cool:

Pendo
03-29-2004, 02:13 AM
I mean when word first came around that Yoda was going to fight in E2, everyone I know was thinking this is going to destroy the movie. And that turned out to be awesome.
It did??? It looked kinda stupid IMO.

Anyways, I think a lot of names in the prequels are pretty lame, but also in the OT. If characters such as Skywalker, Jabba the Hutt, Salacious Crumb, Chewbacca, Wicket W. Warrick, and many more were only coming into the story now we would probably be complaining that their names are pretty bumb, but we have grown up with these names and they are accepted. Maybe names in the PT will be accepted soon.

PENDO!

arctangent
03-29-2004, 08:26 AM
Jasper McKnives. JASPER MCKNIVES.
i do hope he's not supposed to be scarey. no one or nothing called jasper can be remotely scarey in any way. one of the uk's best loved comedians is called jasper carrot. its not his real name, he just chose two of the stupidest most ineffectual names he could for his stage name. you just cannot take a jasper seriously!



and speaks in a Mike Myers-provided thick-as-haggis brogue...........

that's unfair. i have met some fairly intelligent and well spoken haggises in my time!

rbaumhauer
03-29-2004, 08:30 AM
Pendo - yeah, there seems to be this feeling that the Yoda/Dooku duel was "so cool" in some quarters, but it only seems to work on-screen because the editing and shot selection never dwell on its central conceit: in between all the leaping and yelling, there are shots of of Yoda standing on the floor striking and parrying blows, and there are shots of Dooku fighting with Yoda in a fairly "normal" fashion, in spite of the fact that Yoda is about 2 feet tall, and his saber might reach just above Dooku's belt-line. Like I said above, the whole thing was ridiculous, but necessary because Lucas painted himself into a corner (dramatically).

There have been so many wasted opportunities in the PT, many of them boiling down to Lucas' inability to write his way out of a paper bag. Give him the opportunity to deepen the story, make something really strike a chord, and he'll almost always choose to do something visually exciting instead, in spite of any drawbacks. It's hard to believe this is the same guy who came up with the idea for Star Wars in the first place.

As for the lame names in the OT, I agree with some of your choices, but disagree with others - Skywalker is a nice "iconic" name for the young man on a quest, and both Chewbacca and Jabba the Hutt are odd without going too far. They are interesting names, kinda fun to say, and yet very simple to pronounce. More problematic for me, honestly, are a couple of the rebel pilots' names in ANH - for example, even the oldest Star Wars sourcebook, the 1984 edition of "The Guide to the Star Wars Universe", says that Red Leader's first name is "Dave", and there is another pilot named "John D" (Red Four in the movie) - these names are too terrestrial, too familiar, but aren't actually said on screen and so aren't as problematic as they could be.

Where I do agree with the names you mentioned being pretty bad is Wicket and Salacious Crumb, but they were indicative of the larger issue: by the time ROTJ rolled around, Lucas' imagination was pretty much tapped-out. The movie is rife with visual silliness and lame attempts at humor, with even some of the main characters acting like caricatures of themselves.

Wicket W. Warrick was the first instance of a character name incorporating the name of the actor in some way (continued with so many characters in the PT), and always bugged me - I have no problem with Wicket by itself, but adding the middle initial and surname makes no sense. Do we have Ewoks named Logray T. Jones, or Warok X. Smith? No, and the names feel "right" (regardless of the overall "wrongness" of the Ewoks :) ) - add the initial and surname, and they feel too earth-bound, and silly as well. Salacious Crumb (actually, wasn't he Salacious B. Crumb in some sources?) was, I think, one of the characters who was named by the "Creature Shop", and the name stuck, regrettably.

Honestly, I'm hard-pressed to come up with many examples of truly bad names in ANH and ESB (other than those that were applied after the fact by WEG). As with so many things, this is an element that really started to go downhill in ROTJ, when we got our first glimpse of "George Lucas, World-reknowned Movie Mogul". Creatively, that George Lucas can't hold a candle to the hungry young filmmaker who got two absolute masterpieces of imaginative cinema onto the screen, almost by force of will.

A lot of people blame Lucas and "Star Wars" for getting Hollywood into the "Blockbuster Mentality", but we would be lucky to get big summer movies as good as "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" these days. Unfortunately, everybody (Lucas included) seems to be shooting for ROTJ in terms of quality - when in doubt, show the audience something "exciting" - and we're all the poorer for it.

JEDIpartner
03-29-2004, 08:30 AM
I'm in total agreement with Caesar. 90% of the names that we know have never been uttered by a single character. I mean, seriously... look at the latest INSIDER if you want a quick check on that. They've got all of these ridiculous names for the patrons of the Outlander Club. "Whimper Save"? Whathefock?!

Anyhow... I don't think that Grievous is that bad... I mean, really... Lobot? :rolleyes: The name... not so crazy about... the design... could have been much worse.

rbaumhauer
03-29-2004, 10:55 AM
Yes, Caesar does have a point - I guess the whole thing bothers me because it's a sign of how much of a "product" the movies have become, and how aware LFL is of it, as they parcel out little pieces of meaningless fluff to keep the slavering hordes paying for their Hyperspace memberships (no offense intended to anybody who actually has an account, of course).

As for Grievous, well, what can I say - the New Big Cool Bad Guy's name is a freakin' *adjective*, and nobody seems to care. Why don't we just follow it up with Darth Boisterous and Colonel Youthful? That, and he looks like he belongs in a different franchise altogether.

And Lobot? Well, there were places (back in the day) were he was called "the Lobot", which suggests something entirely different...........

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-29-2004, 12:06 PM
I really didn't like Grievous's name at first, but it kinda grew on me. The guy can't even be in the movie for too long, look at Maul in TPM, Jango in AOTC, Boba in ESB and ROTJ. I heard that Obi-Wan is gonna fight him (he seems to always have fights with the bad guy - Maul, Jango, Durge, Vader, now Grievous), so maybe he's kind of a subplot character. (Maybe?)

For the new names, the first name isn't too bad but the second one is just plain silly. Like Caesar said, we probably won't even hear the name on-screen. Kind of like Dexter Jettster, Hermione Bagwa, Elan Sleazebaggano, Onaconda Farr, Dar Wac, Aurra Sing, Sando Aqua Monster, Colo Claw Fish, Sio Bibble, Orn Free Taa, Jocasta Nu, Nyrat Agira, Pablo-Jill, Passel Argente, Shu Mai. And hen there are some we are more familiar with, like Greedo, Wedge, Biggs, Porkins, Hobbie, Lobot, Ozzel, Tauntaun, ugnaughts, Admiral Ackbar, Sy Snootles, Jango Fett, Boba Fett. The list goes on and on. You either get used to the names or you don't. It must keep getting harder to make new names, after the other SW characters, plus ones from Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, basically every work of sci-fi and fantasy.

Jangu Fett
03-29-2004, 09:01 PM
Look, rbaumhauer, I'm not saying Grevious is going to be the next great villian in Star Wars. But, your already condemning him. The movie is still over a year away. Maybe he doesn't look like what we, the fans, would have made him look like. Or even named what we think is good for the films, but, these are Lucas' ideas. Not ours.

Pendo, saying the Dooku / Yoda fight was awesome, was just my opinion. Sorry if I made it sound like that was the majority opinion.

stillakid
03-29-2004, 09:21 PM
Zowie, don't check in for a couple days and look what happens. :)

Essentially everyone is right. The names can get silly, yet thankfully the worst of them don't get soundtrack time. Once again I'll concur with rbaum entirely. The only thing missing are JJB's rationalizations to round this discussion out. ;)

CropDuster
03-29-2004, 11:09 PM
I don't believe you'll have to worry about whether or not grievous will be the next "great" villain, jangu. He has never been mentioned anywhere in the any of the movies up until this point, so I would guess he will come and go with out impacting much anything except for GL's merchandise sales.
Another point; I agree with rbaum on the dumb name, but what about the sabers? I think grievous having 4 sabers is just ridiculous. It seems almost like they(ILM) are just trying to one up darth maul. If they made another movie I bet the new temporary villain would have 6 or maybe even 8 light sabers!!! Give me a break.

2-1B
03-30-2004, 12:18 AM
Boss Nass, Captain Tarpals, Sebulba, Watto, Qui-Gon Jin, Nute Gunray, Captain Typho, Dorme, Padme, and Count Dooku are some examples of spoken prequel names which I love. :)

rbaumhauer
03-30-2004, 08:56 AM
I don't believe you'll have to worry about whether or not grievous will be the next "great" villain, jangu. He has never been mentioned anywhere in the any of the movies up until this point, so I would guess he will come and go with out impacting much anything except for GL's merchandise sales.
Another point; I agree with rbaum on the dumb name, but what about the sabers? I think grievous having 4 sabers is just ridiculous. It seems almost like they(ILM) are just trying to one up darth maul. If they made another movie I bet the new temporary villain would have 6 or maybe even 8 light sabers!!! Give me a break.

The last thing I heard was that they had backed off the multiple sabers idea, and gone with just one, but there's still a problem - to my knowledge, he's neither Sith nor Jedi, so what's he doing with a saber in the first place? Can anybody just pick one up now?

Caesar - I agree with a number of the names that you like, but don't care for Nute Gunray (too close to its source) and Count Dooku (which, frankly, sounds too much like some sort of kids' euphemism for "droppings"). My girlfriend always laughs at Dooku's name, as well as that silly little shot of him escaping on his hover-scooter on Geonosis, where he looks like some sort of Harry Potter reject.

Droid
03-30-2004, 09:27 AM
Ya, there was nothing silly about the names in the original trilogy. Greedo. Porkins. TIE Fighter (because see they look like bowties). :)

I agree, no villain should use a lightsaber as his primary weapon unless he is a SITH. At the same time, anyone can just pick up a lightsaber. Han used Luke's in Empire. Heck, even Logray held Luke's for a while in Jedi. :)

stillakid
03-30-2004, 10:24 AM
Ya, there was nothing silly about the names in the original trilogy. Greedo. Porkins. TIE Fighter (because see they look like bowties). :)



I think the discussion is straying too far from the original point. Rbaum's original point focused on a character named Jasper MCKNIVES and a villian called GREVIOUS. No doubt anyone could find "alien" or foreign names of any kind to be silly on some level (ie. DAISY Fuentes, Condoleezza Rice, Tupac Shakur, etc.) the point is that Lucas is using names that too obviously paint a character in a certain light, ala WWE wrestlers. While "Skywalker" certainly gives the viewer an idea of Luke's wanderlust, his name isn't Dreamer Goodytwoshoes. A character name can hint at the type of person that you'll be experiencing without being so uncreatively obvious about it. But that kind of sums up the new creative style of Lucas...paint in broad strokes and leave nothing to the imagination lest the kiddies are too stupid to figure it out for themselves. Maybe his kids are, but mine aren't that daft to need to hear something like Grevious or McKnives to know it's a bad guy.

2-1B
03-30-2004, 11:05 AM
"Porkins" is not a silly name ? Get the **** out . . . :rolleyes:

stillakid, it's Grievous - not Grevious - and I am pretty sure most young kids won't know what that word even means. If George had named him Sergeant Serious or Admiral Anguish, then I would have to agree.

McKnives does sound very juvenile. :D

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-30-2004, 11:34 AM
rbaumhauer, where did you hear there was only going to be one lightsaber? Caesar said it a while back but he was just pulling a prank on another forum member.

About Grievous and his silliness, I guess I'll hold off somewhat until I see him next Thursday in action for the first time. Even though the cartoon version of that character looks goofier than the movie version. But anyway, how could he use four sabers at a time anyway? Unfortunately someone in Insider said he used his feet like his hands sometimes in combat. I wouldn't care if he kicked and stuff, but if he uses his feet to hold the other two lightsabers, I'll be p*ssed. :mad:

stillakid
03-30-2004, 12:21 PM
"stillakid, it's Grievous - not Grevious - and I am pretty sure most young kids won't know what that word even means. If George had named him Sergeant Serious or Admiral Anguish, then I would have to agree.



Sorry I'm slightly debilatated this week so my typing/proofreading will suffer as well. ;)

Kids who don't know exactly will figure it out. Besides, even though something like "Vader" sounds evil, it doesn't really literally mean anything the way Grievous implies, or Mayor McKnives. lol

Droid
03-30-2004, 12:45 PM
I say again, GREEDO.

rbaumhauer
03-30-2004, 03:33 PM
I say again, GREEDO.

Greedo doesn't really bother me - we didn't really see that much of his character, and he basically acted like a "hired gun" sent to find Solo. He didn't come across as particularly "greedy", and honestly, I never even thought of how his name is spelled, since it's pronounced "Gree-do", not "Greed-o".

Droid
03-30-2004, 05:07 PM
I don't think Greedo's name really bothered anyone because most of us were kids when we saw the original trilogy and we just accepted everything. However, I do think Greedo was greedy in that he told Han to give him the money and if he did, then he would forget that he found him. I admit, I cringe at the names Lott Dodd, Newt Gunray, Darth Sidious, Darth Tyranus, and Captain Typho (although I would have sworn Typho would be evil!). But I think that's just because I'm older and more cynical now. There was always hokey names and dialogue in Star Wars, that is not new to the prequels. I think the original trilogy is better than the prequels, but I wish I could have seen the prequels as a child. I know I would have appreciated them more. (Though I do love the prequels, I just don't think they're as good as they could have been).

As for Grievous, I am not looking forward to him. I don't like his name, but that is the least of my worries. I don't want a droid carrying a lightsaber. I don't want ONE droid wiping out a bunch of Jedi. It undermines the idea of how powerful the force is to have a droid knocking Jedi around.

Jangu Fett
03-30-2004, 05:40 PM
OK, well, I feel I must apologize for defending the General. Especially if what I read is true. If anyone has read the article on Grevious in the new SW Insider, you already know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I don't really care about what his name is. So long as it isn't something like Crispy McNugget, and he's a clone with a flamethrower.

The design for Grevious I think, is pretty cool. Yes it could definately be better, but, the design is set and there is nothing I can do about but accept it. Does anyone else out there think Grevious's mother was that A.M.M.I robot from that movie with Val Kilmer, Chancelor Valorum, and Trinity going to Mars? Anyway, some of the "special skills" he has, or can have MUST GO. I can accept that he is being geared for the kids, but when does become to much? In this article it said the General has as much dexterity in his feet as he does in his hands :neutral: . I can deal if that means, like AMMI, Grevious avoids a slash from a lightsaber, by ducking forward doing a handspring and kicks whoever in the face. Then springs back right-side-up. But being able to duel with lightsabers using his feet. That's way overboard, IMO.

Droid, I don't know if Grevious will use the lightsabers. Thats still up in that air, but, he DOES carry 4 of them. From the JEDI he has killed.

2-1B
03-31-2004, 01:18 AM
I say again, GREEDO.

What about Beedo from Jabba's Palace ? :D


Sorry I'm slightly debilatated this week so my typing/proofreading will suffer as well. ;)

I was just surprised because normally your proofreading is as accurate as General Grievous with 4 lightsabers! :crazed:


Kids who don't know exactly will figure it out. Besides, even though something like "Vader" sounds evil, it doesn't really literally mean anything the way Grievous implies, or Mayor McKnives. lol

I was thinking of it in terms of InVader . . . evil in that sense.

But lets' move on because I thought of 2 ways to possibly put this into perspective:

General Grievous could have a much worse name as I already stated but what are some other ones?
Private Pain
Ensign Evil
Colonel Coffin
Lieutenant Leacherous
Brigadeer commander Bully
Corporal Crazy
Drill Sargeant Dagger
Commander Cocky
Commander Cody (oops, that one's taken)

Also, it could be worse because they could have decided to give GG a "cool" catch phrase like . . . I don't know . . . maybe when he is about to finish off an opponent he can say, "You've just made a grievous error" and then raise his pinky like Dr. Evil.

JEDIpartner
03-31-2004, 08:36 AM
...you forgot General Nuisance!!! :D

arctangent
03-31-2004, 09:19 AM
...you forgot General Nuisance!!! :D


i know his civilian cousin, public!

2-1B
03-31-2004, 12:01 PM
Oooh ! It's a whole new line of thinking, JP ! :)

How about Domestic Disturbance ?
Disturbing the Peace ?
Disorderly Conduct ?

JEDIpartner
03-31-2004, 02:01 PM
I try my best. ;)

El Chuxter
03-31-2004, 02:39 PM
I've got to break my spoiler-free run to comment on this one. :)

Commander Cody has only come up once in this thread, but that one bugs me the worst. I joked before about him leading a platoon called the Lost Planet Airmen around the galaxy in his Hot Rod Lincoln, but at that point I hadn't seen the name in the Insider and realized it was fact.

If we can have a Commander Cody, why not a Jedi Master named Ae'ro-Smythe? Or Kand Hete? Maybe a Sith Lord named Darth Metallic'a? How about a Tatooine moisture farmer who goes by Lad Zapp'lin? He could have a translator droid named BB-King. :rolleyes:

stillakid
03-31-2004, 03:44 PM
I've got to break my spoiler-free run to comment on this one. :)

Commander Cody has only come up once in this thread, but that one bugs me the worst. I joked before about him leading a platoon called the Lost Planet Airmen around the galaxy in his Hot Rod Lincoln, but at that point I hadn't seen the name in the Insider and realized it was fact.

If we can have a Commander Cody, why not a Jedi Master named Ae'ro-Smythe? Or Kand Hete? Maybe a Sith Lord named Darth Metallic'a? How about a Tatooine moisture farmer who goes by Lad Zapp'lin? He could have a translator droid named BB-King. :rolleyes:


It took a Google search to figure out what you're talking about. But undoubtedly like me, GL has no clue about the musical stylings that you speak of. Rather he is referencing the Saturday morning tv character as seen here: http://www.superherophotos.net/serials/rocket.htm

vadersvette
03-31-2004, 09:06 PM
I think Lucas has a bucket full of letters that he draws out one by one randomly, and comes up with a name. ''Uh...G...R...I...E...V...hey, Grievious! That sounds good.'' :p :p

JEDIpartner
04-01-2004, 09:05 AM
Well... I posted in the Television forums that the Clone Wars series has a Jedi (I think) who looks like Scooby-Doo's Shaggy and his name is "Sha'a Gi". Yeah... I know.

Darth Raucous?
Duke Zovhazad?
Sha'di Salsmonn?
Mollum Plo-yee?
Ka-fi Felter?
Pep Ronncheni?
Val Ewmill?
Inna Jamm?

Jangu Fett
04-01-2004, 07:41 PM
Stupid character names and now stupid titles. The OFFICIAL STAR WARS website seems to have the official E3 title up. Under THE MOVIE button, it lists E3 as - STAR WARS: EPISODE III - "THE CREEPING FEAR". I don't know about anyone else, but, I'm really hoping this is just a april fools joke.

AmanaMatt
04-02-2004, 10:57 AM
Crap, I am suprised Lucas does not have characters named General Badass or Admiral Evil.

Did he actually come up with Vader as a name? Once upon a time, he must not have been secretly working for the Henson company - I mean, if this were Dark Crystal 2, then General Grievous would sound cool!

vadersvette
04-02-2004, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure about this, but I think Vader means "father" in a different language. If he knew all along that Vader was going to be Luke's father, he most likely picked that name for it.

JEDIpartner
04-02-2004, 02:01 PM
I think "Vader" is "father" in some Scandinavian tongue.

El Chuxter
04-02-2004, 04:35 PM
It took a Google search to figure out what you're talking about. But undoubtedly like me, GL has no clue about the musical stylings that you speak of. Rather he is referencing the Saturday morning tv character as seen here: http://www.superherophotos.net/serials/rocket.htm

You're probably right about the old serial (which the band probably took its name from as well), but I'll have to disagree with you on the other point. My guess is anyone in late adolescence or early adulthood when "Hot Rod Lincoln" came out and is as obsessed with cars as George obviously is would be familiar with the song and the group.

I'm just hoping the character doesn't say, "My pappy said 'Son, you're gonna drive me to drinking if you don't stop driving that hot rod Lincoln!'" :D

stillakid
04-02-2004, 10:57 PM
I think "Vader" is "father" in some Scandinavian tongue.
-------------------------------------
The Lord's Prayer in Dutch


Onze Vader,
die in de hemelen zijt,
geheiligd zij Uw naam.
Uw rijk kome,
Uw wil geschiede op aarde als in de hemel.
Geef ons heden ons dagelijks brood,
en vergeef ons onze schulden,
gelijk ook wij vergeven aan onze schuldenaren.
En leid ons niet in bekoring,
maar verlos ons van het kwade.

The 'Xir
04-03-2004, 03:07 AM
You guys are killing me! Is this really that big of a deal! I mean these weird, stupid, obvious, or what ever you want to call them names have been apart of Star Wars from the begining, and after I've read these replies, Greedo IS a perfect example of Georges use of these type of names!!! Now, I don't have a problem with Greedo's name or any ones like it, but who cares?!!! Hell, look at the Imperial fleet: Devastator, Executor, Avenger! These are all names that have just as a direct affect on there pupose and motive in the movie as do Greedo, and I'm assuming as General Grievous will! Oh and for those that might not know, his name means: Serious, dire, or grave. To cause grief, pain and/or anguish!
So If Goerge wants to name some weird looking character Xx'yy'p Xx'yt pronounced sheep **** well then all the more power to him! I say we all just sit back and enjoy these movies! Let's have some fun! Huh? :crazed:

Neeka_Keet
04-05-2004, 12:33 PM
So If Goerge wants to name some weird looking character Xx'yy'p Xx'yt pronounced sheep **** well then all the more power to him! I say we all just sit back and enjoy these movies! Let's have some fun! Huh? :crazed:


Oh my god!!!!:eek: :crazed: :speech: lol

TheDarthVader
04-05-2004, 09:13 PM
and honestly, I never even thought of how his name is spelled, since it's pronounced "Gree-do", not "Greed-o".

You never thought...exactly. You need to watch ANH again since you love your OT so much. You would then find that Han Solo clearly pronounces Greedo as (Greed-o) when he speaks the line "Yes Greedo. As a matter of fact I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba that I've got the money." So it is decidedly GREED-O not gree-do. ;)

rbaumhauer
04-05-2004, 10:34 PM
You never thought...exactly. You need to watch ANH again since you love your OT so much. You would then find that Han Solo clearly pronounces Greedo as (Greed-o) when he speaks the line "Yes Greedo. As a matter of fact I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba that I've got the money." So it is decidedly GREED-O not gree-do. ;)

I'm so touched that you went and checked that out just to try to correct me :rolleyes:

I've always heard it (and pronounced it) as "Gree-doh" - I tend to hear hard consonants in English (like "d" and "t") as the start of syllables when they're between vowels, but I don't know if that's a "rule". Honestly, the pronunciation is not so clear in the movie that it can be said to be "decidedly" either.

TheDarthVader
04-06-2004, 12:37 PM
:rolleyes: The way you typed that must have been the mistake. The way you typed it (Gree-do) is pronounced like Gree-dew (as in mountain dew). I was saying that his name is pronounced Greed-o with a long o sound. As in Greed-oh.
And I didn't have to "check it". The lines are in my head. ;)

angellus
04-06-2004, 03:13 PM
Lucas made a bad enough movie that he NEEDED for Yoda to fight at the end, no matter how ridiculous it was. And that's what it was, patently ridiculous - he threw all of the dignity, restraint, and implied power that Yoda was imbued with in ESB out the window for no reason beyond his own inability to come up with something truly compelling to put up on screen.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this since I saw AOTC and no one agrees with me! After seeing the Yoda fight scene in AOTC, I'm waiting for the line in "The Empire Strikes Back: The Super, Ultra, Expanded Edition" where Yoda's dialogue will be edited as follows:

LUKE: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

YODA: You will know when you are calm. At peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack... Unless of course you need to open up a pint-sized can of whoop ***** on this uncharismatic senior citizen who just mopped the floor with a young, in-his-prime Obi-Wan Kenobi! Who, by the way, took out a Sith Lord by himself in the last movie...

rbaumhauer
04-06-2004, 04:25 PM
:rolleyes: The way you typed that must have been the mistake. The way you typed it (Gree-do) is pronounced like Gree-dew (as in mountain dew). I was saying that his name is pronounced Greed-o with a long o sound. As in Greed-oh.
And I didn't have to "check it". The lines are in my head. ;)

Ah, okay, just a misunderstanding then :) I had intended to type the name phonetically (as I did the in the more recent post), but ended up just splitting the syllables the way I heard them.

Sorry about that!

I didn't think that I needed to go back to the movie to listen to it, either, but your post confused me enough that I did it anyway :)

rbaumhauer
04-06-2004, 04:28 PM
THANK YOU! I've been saying this since I saw AOTC and no one agrees with me!

Hey, glad to know that I'm not alone in thinking that way either!

I think the reason most people don't seem to agree is because it IS a fun scene - totally out of character and completely ridiculous, but fun.

Droid
04-06-2004, 04:51 PM
I do not think that it was out of character for Yoda to fight. Yoda never said Jedis must be pacificists. If so, why do they carry lightsabers? I agree that Lucas never should have written Yoda fighting though. It was a FUN scene, but was not a good idea. I like Yoda DEPICTED as a more Gandhilike character. Yoda may have fought in the past, and may be a great fighter. I just would rather not see him fight.

Sebulba_Fett
04-06-2004, 10:37 PM
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Is this really what we've come to? Complaining about a ficticious character's name? Basing the entire success of this movie on a couple of meaningless names, the majority of which will only be seen when the credits start to roll?

There was a time, before I even felt the need to start posting, that I came to this site to get excited about these new films. I'd drop in now and then to see what people had to say and when I'd start to read about how excited people were it exhilarated me. It was an awesome feeling.

But now two of these new movies have come and gone and unfortunately so has that fun atmosphere. The people that still seem excited for the final movie are way out numbered by the people who could care less. The majority of posts I read have some kind of negativity in them. Its really quite sad.

I understand that a lot of people were disappointed by the first two prequels. That's fine. But so what? If the movies are that horrible, don't watch them. And you don't have to see the next one either. Nobody is pushing EIII spoilers in your face. Nobody is going to come to your house on May 19, 2005 and demand $8 from you. If all you enjoy is the OT that's great. They were cool movies. They touched an entire generation. I'll see you in the OT forums where we can talk about them. But I don't want to come to a Star Wars "Fan" site only to be assaulted by a tidal wave of bad attitudes toward a film that hasn't even been finished yet.

I for one am still very excited for EIII to come. And I know that there are still people out there that feel the same way I do. But everyday it becomes a more and more uphill battle. And if anybody tries to tell me that I'm excited because I can't tell a good movie from a bad one, or that I enjoy bad acting, or that I enjoy bad dialogue, or that I'm just plain lying to myself can blow it out there arse. I'm excited because its Star Wars. These movies have been a part of my life since as far back as I can remember and hopefully will continue being a part of my life for some time to come.

And for my last point, lighten up on the GL bashing already. I'm not going to defend what's he's done or will do, so don't go labeling me as a George Lucas groupie. But I will defend his right as an artist to do whatever he darn well pleases. Star Wars has been his pet project this whole time. What he does with it is solely up to him. And it should be. The conversations regarding which directors/producers should do more Star Wars movies besides GL make me cringe. As an artist myself, I would be royally PO'd if someone told me, after I had done a series of paintings, "Hey, your first works were great, but since nobody really likes your last few, we're going have this guy continue painting your theme because people will like them better!"

Whew, I think I'm done for now. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. Matter of fact, most people have probably already made up there mind whether or not they are going to enjoy EIII. I'm just hoping to help some people change their attitude a little. Try not to be so negative about every spoiler that comes out. Sit back, relax, have an open mind, and if you need to, wait until you've seen the final product to make your decision. Thank you to those people that are doing that. Thank you even more to the people that are going to find enjoyment in this movie no matter what the outcome.

rbaumhauer
04-06-2004, 11:01 PM
Hey, I'm certainly not trying to take anybody's fun away, and believe me, if this was an issue with "just a couple of names that will never be seen except in the credits", I would never have brought it up. For me, it was just one more thing that made me roll my eyes in disbelief.

Honestly, you feel like you're fighting a losing battle trying to be positive and enjoy the PT, but I know there are at least a couple of us (ya there, stillakid?) who feel exactly the same from the other side - we're forever being told to "just enjoy the movies" when we criticize anything about the PT.

We're all here because we care, passionately, about this series of silly movies - some of us are disappointed with the PT (and part of the OT, in my case), but like you, these movies are a part of us. If that wasn't the case, I'd just walk away and find something else to spend all this time and money on. We don't criticize just for the fun of it, but because it hurts, in some vague but undeniable way, to see these movies not live up to the potential that we saw in them, all those years ago.

I hope Ep3 is everything that you want it to be, and I hope, deep down, that George is able to surprise me.

stillakid
04-06-2004, 11:43 PM
Hey, I'm certainly not trying to take anybody's fun away, and believe me, if this was an issue with "just a couple of names that will never be seen except in the credits", I would never have brought it up. For me, it was just one more thing that made me roll my eyes in disbelief.

Honestly, you feel like you're fighting a losing battle trying to be positive and enjoy the PT, but I know there are at least a couple of us (ya there, stillakid?) who feel exactly the same from the other side - we're forever being told to "just enjoy the movies" when we criticize anything about the PT.

We're all here because we care, passionately, about this series of silly movies - some of us are disappointed with the PT (and part of the OT, in my case), but like you, these movies are a part of us. If that wasn't the case, I'd just walk away and find something else to spend all this time and money on. We don't criticize just for the fun of it, but because it hurts, in some vague but undeniable way, to see these movies not live up to the potential that we saw in them, all those years ago.

I hope Ep3 is everything that you want it to be, and I hope, deep down, that George is able to surprise me.

Ditto. Honestly, I couldn't have said it better myself. :)

2-1B
04-07-2004, 02:11 AM
You guys are actually "hurt" that the last few movies haven't lived up to your expectations ? :rolleyes:

No offense . . . but to me that sounds even dorkier than the "prequel defenders" whom you like to rib as being a little too attached to see the problems in the prequels. I mean, talk about being too attached - you guys are so hard over ANH and ESB that you feel "hurt" because the next ones weren't as good ? :confused:

I'm amazed.

Sebulba_Fett
04-07-2004, 03:26 AM
I just want to say sorry for being so harsh in my last post. I just got a little frustrated is all. Everyone's opinion belongs in here, even if it is negative. Your right in the fact that if something that's been dear to your heart for so long doesn't live up to its potential you should be able to voice your disappointment.

Its just that I'm an eternal optimist. I understand the prequels haven't really turned out the way they could have been. But I enjoyed them. For all their differences from the OT, I had fun watching them.

I can understand being negative about continuity and how the PT is going to fit with the OT. There are so many loose ends that need to be tied up that I think you almost need 2 more prequel movies to get them all. I can also understand being upset about the lack of fun characters. Han, Luke, & Leia had this exciting adventurous spirit that has been sorely missing from the first 2 prequels. These things alone make it hard enough to stay excited for EIII that when we start tearing apart a character's name I think we're just getting a little too negative.

No matter what I'm going to try and remain positive. EIII could very well be a great movie. Whether or not it actually ends up being so will be a discussion for after the movie is released. It's a for sure thing though that I'm still going to walk out of the theatre with a huge grin on my face no matter the outcome.

arctangent
04-07-2004, 05:17 AM
I just want to say sorry for being so harsh in my last post. I just got a little frustrated is all. Everyone's opinion belongs in here, even if it is negative. Your right in the fact that if something that's been dear to your heart for so long doesn't live up to its potential you should be able to voice your disappointment.

Its just that I'm an eternal optimist. I understand the prequels haven't really turned out the way they could have been. But I enjoyed them. For all their differences from the OT, I had fun watching them.

I can understand being negative about continuity and how the PT is going to fit with the OT. There are so many loose ends that need to be tied up that I think you almost need 2 more prequel movies to get them all. I can also understand being upset about the lack of fun characters. Han, Luke, & Leia had this exciting adventurous spirit that has been sorely missing from the first 2 prequels. These things alone make it hard enough to stay excited for EIII that when we start tearing apart a character's name I think we're just getting a little too negative.

No matter what I'm going to try and remain positive. EIII could very well be a great movie. Whether or not it actually ends up being so will be a discussion for after the movie is released. It's a for sure thing though that I'm still going to walk out of the theatre with a huge grin on my face no matter the outcome.

well said Sebulba_Fett. i for one agree with you and i don't think your other post was too harsh. i am really looking forward to EIII. i too was entertained by E! and EII which is, as far as i am concerned, is what cinema is all about. agreed, everyone is entitled to their own point of view and there have been some very interesting debates here between people with different points of view but i too hope to be walking out of the cinema with a big grin on my face.

rbaumhauer
04-07-2004, 01:14 PM
You guys are actually "hurt" that the last few movies haven't lived up to your expectations ? :rolleyes:

No offense . . . but to me that sounds even dorkier than the "prequel defenders" whom you like to rib as being a little too attached to see the problems in the prequels. I mean, talk about being too attached - you guys are so hard over ANH and ESB that you feel "hurt" because the next ones weren't as good ? :confused:

I'm amazed.

Uhm, last time I checked, this was a message board for people who like to collect and display little plastic dolls based on a sci-fi movie series - doesn't that imply a certain amount of INHERENT dorkiness?

Maybe "hurt" wasn't quite the right word, but simply saying we're "disappointed" doesn't really convey the right meaning, either - it goes deeper than that. It's a given that adulthood is full of disappointments, but I had hoped that "Star Wars" would avoid that fate - for me, it hasn't.

vadersvette
04-07-2004, 05:25 PM
Yeah, I like all the movies so far, and have great expectations for EpIII. IMO, Its just that some of the movies are better than the others. I have to admit that I mostly enjoyed TPM, with AOTC being much better.

mabudonicus
04-08-2004, 09:21 AM
Gotta say this thread got me laughing pretty hard, especially JP's and Caesar's "lists" :D .... Sergeant Serious (he could have a Creed song as his music)

What about the diplomat, "General Discussion"??

Anyways, I agree with different folks on different points
first off, rbaumhauer, you are quite well spoken, haven't read many of your posts before but all the ones here were right up my alley :beard:

I agree that the offscreen names really don't matter, most of the "characters" only had reference names anyways.. heck, I can recall when "Momaw Nadon" was just plain 'ol "hammerhead" :beard:

If ya like all them names, no worries, like in the "dex" case... I have a funny feeling that "Grievance" (sic) will be spoken in the film..... sooo silly

And as Stilla said, Darth Vader is a play on "Dark Father", based on Dutch or German, take your pick.... but he wasn't called "Grim Parent" or "Poppa Evil" .... "Pere Nuit" which all woulda been... well, Grievous

Oh, and sorta something I just remembered (not having read any of the EU drivel I'm not toofamiliar with all the "filler" characters) but "SHU MAI" if it's pronounced how I imagine it is, is welsh for "hello"... funny, huh??


Oh, and I thought "salacious Crumb" was stupid from the beginning... and "rancor" is kinda an odd choice, too, wish it'd been "Candor" :beard:

rbaumhauer
04-08-2004, 09:46 AM
Anyways, I agree with different folks on different points
first off, rbaumhauer, you are quite well spoken, haven't read many of your posts before but all the ones here were right up my alley :beard:

I agree that the offscreen names really don't matter, most of the "characters" only had reference names anyways.. heck, I can recall when "Momaw Nadon" was just plain 'ol "hammerhead" :beard:

[snip]

Oh, and I thought "salacious Crumb" was stupid from the beginning... and "rancor" is kinda an odd choice, too, wish it'd been "Candor" :beard:

First, thanks for the compliment - I appreciate it.

As I stated earlier, I guess I see the issue as one between pre-ROTJ Lucas and post-ROTJ Lucas - the latter knew he had a license to print money, and seemed to start thinking more about "product" than about "story", in spite of his protestations to the contrary. Or, perhaps to be more fair, "product" entered the picture with ROTJ, where it hadn't really been an issue before that.

Before ROTJ, there was no guarantee of a successful product, so there was no reason to go naming everything that appeared on screen - the STORY was the thing. As of ROTJ, this was no longer the case - each named "thing" was a marketing possibility, something else to have a trademark on.

Every time that happened, the "Galaxy Far, Far Away" felt smaller to me, with less room for my own ideas and dreams.

arctangent
04-08-2004, 09:57 AM
I agree that the offscreen names really don't matter, most of the "characters" only had reference names anyways.. heck, I can recall when "Momaw Nadon" was just plain 'ol "hammerhead" :beard:

this is a good point. when i was a kid i didn't care what the characters were called - hammerhead, greedo, walrus face, snaggletooth. i just wanted to have their figures.




Oh, and sorta something I just remembered (not having read any of the EU drivel I'm not toofamiliar with all the "filler" characters) but "SHU MAI" if it's pronounced how I imagine it is, is welsh for "hello"... funny, huh??

how do you know this wonderous piece of useless information? that's fantastic lol !

Deoxyribonucleic
04-08-2004, 11:04 AM
Jasper McKnives. JASPER MCKNIVES. No doubt, he has a sidekick named Dennis O'Gunns,

Ohhhhhhhhhhh sweet Jesus, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time at some writing on a monitor....this statement is HILARIOUS!! :silly:

Ok, I'm with you on this about the ridiculous names, but here I am looking at a figure I bought who's name I couldn't stand and thought the character in the movie was pretty stupid in the first place but the figure ended up being pretty cool.....Elan Sleezebagano...Ohh cruel fate, why do you mock me!!

I can see it now, a brain pow-wow at Skywalker Ranch to come up with these things and then they all pat themselves on the back when they come up with this ridiculous hoohah :crazed:

2-1B
04-13-2004, 12:01 AM
Uhm, last time I checked, this was a message board for people who like to collect and display little plastic dolls based on a sci-fi movie series - doesn't that imply a certain amount of INHERENT dorkiness?

Maybe "hurt" wasn't quite the right word, but simply saying we're "disappointed" doesn't really convey the right meaning, either - it goes deeper than that. It's a given that adulthood is full of disappointments, but I had hoped that "Star Wars" would avoid that fate - for me, it hasn't.

Listen, I was a huge fan of the vintage line as a kid and in 1995 when Kenner came back with the hulked up initial offerings of the relaunch, I was disappointed with the figures. However, if any collectors would like to come forward and say they were hurt by those figs, then I'll tell them the same thing. :)

Darth Kirk
04-13-2004, 02:50 AM
First off, I know for a fact that every single person in this forum loves the PT and OT . And no matter how much the PT disappoints, or how awful it seems, or how low your expectations are because of Mcknives, or Camilla Breastslinger, all I will say is, there is NO OTHER film out there that sparks our ire, excitement, resentment, hope, happiness, anger and fulfillment, other than the Star Wars saga.. So, ya, it may not be great, hell, it might suck, but when the lights go down and the 20th Century Fox music rolls in May 2005, everyone in this forum will pop that boner/nipple and have their heart skip yet another beat for the BELOVED Star Wars film.
PEACE and don't be hatin'. :)
Granted though, if we didn't complain, what else would we do for the next year and a month.. :confused:
So go on, complain, just remember u r breakin' Papa Lucas' heart.. sob :cry:

JEDIpartner
04-13-2004, 08:05 AM
"SHU MAI" if it's pronounced how I imagine it is, is welsh for "hello"... funny, huh??
Shu Mai
Serves 6 - 8
Ingredients:
1 pound ground pork
4 dried shiitake mushrooms, soaked and diced
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 teaspoon Chinese rice wine or dry sherry
1 teaspoon sesame oil
1/2 teaspoon sugar
about 2 dozen gyoza wrappers (or won ton wrappers cut into circles).

Directions:
Combine all ingredients except gyoza wrappers. Working one at a time, put about 2 teaspoons of filling in the center of a gyoza wrapper. Gather up the sides to form pleats (the top will be open). Pinch slightly in middle to form a "waist," press down filling on the top, and tap the bottom so that the shu mai can stand up.
Arrange shu mai on an oiled heatproof plate or a steamer tray. Steam over boiling water 15 - 20 minutes, until pork is cooked through.

stillakid
04-13-2004, 10:29 AM
First off, I know for a fact that every single person in this forum loves the PT and OT . And no matter how much the PT disappoints, or how awful it seems, or how low your expectations are because of Mcknives, or Camilla Breastslinger, all I will say is, there is NO OTHER film out there that sparks our ire, excitement, resentment, hope, happiness, anger and fulfillment, other than the Star Wars saga.. So, ya, it may not be great, hell, it might suck, but when the lights go down and the 20th Century Fox music rolls in May 2005, everyone in this forum will pop that boner/nipple and have their heart skip yet another beat for the BELOVED Star Wars film.
PEACE and don't be hatin'. :)
Granted though, if we didn't complain, what else would we do for the next year and a month.. :confused:
So go on, complain, just remember u r breakin' Papa Lucas' heart.. sob :cry:


Fact, huh? :rolleyes: I think you need to take another survey. ;) I guarantee you that I won't be popping "that boner/nipple" when I get around to seeing Episode III. More likely I'll be bracing myself just as I do when I know that I'm about to get broadsided at an intersection. Sort of a clenching my teeth thing. I'm really really trying to go in open minded as I did with the first two Suckquels (I truly am an eternal optimist), but Lucas managed to disappoint me twice in a row so he's set up a precedent that is hard to quell. In the end I don't mind a lame character name or two. That stuff is part of the B-movie thing he apparently was trying to go for. What I object to are the nonsensical scenes and the moronic dialogue which have infected the Prequels. With Lucas at the helm once again, it's gonna happen. Just like the big earthquake, it's just a question of when and how many aftershocks. :crazed:



Listen, I was a huge fan of the vintage line as a kid and in 1995 when Kenner came back with the hulked up initial offerings of the relaunch, I was disappointed with the figures. However, if any collectors would like to come forward and say they were hurt by those figs, then I'll tell them the same thing. :)

Ya know, I was just kinda giddy that there were Star Wars figures again. I remember when that Galoob stuff came out thinking that this was going to be it. Then to see an actual action figure...wow, I really was blown away. I had absolutlely no idea that we'd still be seeing new figures so many years later. Really, I might not have started buying them had I known how deeply I'd become addicted. I did think that the HeMan thing was a little odd, but I didn't put a lot of thought into it really. Just happy to see something. :)

Deoxyribonucleic
04-13-2004, 11:05 AM
Shu Mai
Serves 6 - 8
Ingredients:
1 pound ground pork
4 dried shiitake mushrooms, soaked and diced
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 teaspoon Chinese rice wine or dry sherry
1 teaspoon sesame oil
1/2 teaspoon sugar
about 2 dozen gyoza wrappers (or won ton wrappers cut into circles).

Directions:
Combine all ingredients except gyoza wrappers. Working one at a time, put about 2 teaspoons of filling in the center of a gyoza wrapper. Gather up the sides to form pleats (the top will be open). Pinch slightly in middle to form a "waist," press down filling on the top, and tap the bottom so that the shu mai can stand up.
Arrange shu mai on an oiled heatproof plate or a steamer tray. Steam over boiling water 15 - 20 minutes, until pork is cooked through.


My bladder almost popped when I saw this baby......AAAAAHHHHAHAHHAHA!

good call there JediPartnr.....good call!!

:kiss:

Darth Kirk
04-13-2004, 07:08 PM
I shall stand by my words.. poppin' of boners and/or nipples shall be occurring at a galactically immense scale.. I am quite convinced that Episode 3 will be a well-made film.. I don't know, but I feel a resurgence in the force.. Eternal optimist, and everyone else, trust.. :cool:
For cornís sakes, TRUST the man that in the summer of 1976 was in Tunisia shooting a little known, widely-mocked film called Star Wars (mocked by the 6 or 7 studios that passed up on funding it).. just trust.. I guess, having blind faith in something ain't cool anymore, but sometimes it is something that can be done if hope is your best friend.. But, I enjoyed the PT, with its inane dialogue/Pinocchio-like acting and cool special effects, so I guess this message would be for those of us upset and besmirched by it..
Peace ma brothas and sistas

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-13-2004, 07:18 PM
I shall stand by my words.. poppin' of boners and/or nipples shall be occurring at a galactically immense scale.. I am quite convinced that Episode 3 will be a well-made film.. I don't know, but I feel a resurgence in the force.. Eternal optimist, and everyone else, trust.. :cool:
For cornís sakes, TRUST the man that in the summer of 1976 was in Tunisia shooting a little known, widely-mocked film called Star Wars (mocked by the 6 or 7 studios that passed up on funding it).. just trust.. I guess, having blind faith in something ain't cool anymore, but sometimes it is something that can be done if hope is your best friend.. But, I enjoyed the PT, with its inane dialogue/Pinocchio-like acting and cool special effects, so I guess this message would be for those of us upset and besmirched by it..
Peace ma brothas and sistas

DK- Don't worry about trying to spread the PT love, my friend. There are some on the boards who will do anything, find anything and never talk complaining about any tiny errors they feel are in the film or how they feel the film should've been made. Some folks cannot accept that we're moving into the digital age and many things are changing in the realm of film making. You're fighting an uphill battle you cannot win when you try to say that both the OT and PT are fabulous, which they are.

I also have massive faith that Episode III is going to blow us all away. I just don't expect those who think they know what is best for Lucas' own creations to like the films when they think they are God's gift to film making. Cheers!! :D

stillakid
04-14-2004, 12:04 AM
For cornís sakes, TRUST the man that in the summer of 1976 was in Tunisia shooting a little known, widely-mocked film called Star Wars

He also was responsible for More American Grafitti, Radio Days, and Howard the Duck. Not to mention the fact that the studios ignored his idea because at the time, the script was unbelievably awful. Only after hiring his friends to polish the screenplay up did it become suitable for shooting and viewing.

Episode I and II were less than they could have and should have been and that has nothing to do with any of us "complainers." George f'd those up all on his own. We're just the annoyed messengers. That's like blaming Tom Brokaw for the Iraq war just because he reports on it.

Deoxyribonucleic
04-14-2004, 12:35 AM
The man is always complaining about how he hates to write; well I think he should take his own advice and stop writing because he sucks like a fox at it!

And if anyone says, "Well, could you do better?" I say "Yes, YES I can!!"

:o

JEDIpartner
04-14-2004, 08:53 AM
Yeah... I ran out and got myself some Shu Mai and some Gyoza at the Asian market last night after posting that. I really got a craving for it. Hahahaha... Why did I do that to myself?

Yeah... there are some serious dialogue issues with George's scripts. Apparently he doesn't have conversations with real people so he doesn't know how to write properly. :rolleyes:

Darth Kirk
04-14-2004, 11:18 AM
It is interesting to me that we have a forum full of haters... I like Howard the Duck and the Prequel of LOTR- Willow... so hahahahaha

JEDIpartner
04-14-2004, 01:23 PM
It is interesting to me that we have a forum full of haters... I like... the Prequel of LOTR- Willow... so hahahahaha
Too funny...! :p

stillakid
04-14-2004, 03:27 PM
It is interesting to me that we have a forum full of haters... I like Howard the Duck and the Prequel of LOTR- Willow... so hahahahaha


I'll send you my copy of Metalstorm: The Destruction of Jared-Syn. ;)

Darth Kirk
04-14-2004, 06:43 PM
I remember .. I remember 'Metalstorm'.. COOOLNES to the nth degree dude.. It was released in 1983 and it was 3-D, coooooooooooooooooooooooooool :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Stilla, I promise you, come (H, E, double hockey-stix) or highwater, I shall try to restore your faith in the last installment of the Star Wars saga.. For pete's sake, remember the furry Chewie, and the ever wise Yoda together on Kashyyk, and the transformation of Palpy before our eyes, and Ani resurrected as Vadey, and sweet, forlorn Padme perishing.. remember these things that were in our dreams, and are NOW going to be realized in film (one more year)..
BELIEVE

stillakid
04-14-2004, 10:13 PM
Stilla, I promise you, come (H, E, double hockey-stix) or highwater, I shall try to restore your faith in the last installment of the Star Wars saga.. For pete's sake, remember the furry Chewie, and the ever wise Yoda together on Kashyyk, and the transformation of Palpy before our eyes, and Ani resurrected as Vadey, and sweet, forlorn Padme perishing.. remember these things that were in our dreams, and are NOW going to be realized in film (one more year)..
BELIEVE

You may want to find another hobby other than saving my Star Wars soul. See, I never wanted to see any of that stuff you mention above, save maybe the way Palpatine politically manipulates the Republic, et al. That Ani to Vader montage crap is right out. I can hardly believe it'll actually be in the film itself much less the fact that so many fanboys are getting a hard on thinking about it. We shouldn't see forlorn Padme perishing in Episode III as Leia is supposed to be old enough to remember her (per ROTJ). Why, for pete's sake, is it necessary to see Chewy at all in the Prequels and what the H E double hockey sticks is Yoda doing with him? All that gratuitous fanboy wetdream nonsense in ONE FILM!? Saints be praised, I can hardly wait. :sur:

Darth Kirk
04-14-2004, 11:41 PM
"Saints be praised, I can hardly wait."-SEE SEEE, the tough exterior is slowly cracking.. YIPEEEEEEE HOOOOOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :)
Now, I aint never seen the wet dreams of no frat boy, but if they be dreamin' of the above aforementioned, than damn, thats some freakay doodoo!!! Seriously though, why not come to the simple conclusion that the story is being told by a person who melded all of this together almost 30 years ago.. Granted, the plot had do have obviously changed over the years, but the transformation of Vadey has been written about way back in the day, I really remember reading about how Vader came about in back of some cereal box when Empire First came out (Darth Vader or Star Wars cereal, yummers).. And the issue with Leia and memories of sweet Padme, I believe she could have thought that her mommy was one of the hand maidens that already look like her.. Dorme, Corde, Pototay.. Dude, if you don't have faith and hope, than why bother with this coool forum?? :confused:

stillakid
04-15-2004, 12:46 AM
"Saints be praised, I can hardly wait."-SEE SEEE, the tough exterior is slowly cracking.. YIPEEEEEEE HOOOOOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :)
Now, I aint never seen the wet dreams of no frat boy, but if they be dreamin' of the above aforementioned, than damn, thats some freakay doodoo!!! Seriously though, why not come to the simple conclusion that the story is being told by a person who melded all of this together almost 30 years ago.. Granted, the plot had do have obviously changed over the years, but the transformation of Vadey has been written about way back in the day, I really remember reading about how Vader came about in back of some cereal box when Empire First came out (Darth Vader or Star Wars cereal, yummers).. And the issue with Leia and memories of sweet Padme, I believe she could have thought that her mommy was one of the hand maidens that already look like her.. Dorme, Corde, Pototay.. Dude, if you don't have faith and hope, than why bother with this coool forum?? :confused:


I like the toys. :D

2-1B
04-15-2004, 01:52 AM
stillakid -

a) maybe George will pull the wool over your eyes (like he did with the last movie) and you'll initially enjoy Episode III before you mount your campaign against it.

b) hell, I was excited to get those ridiculous Bend Em figures before the Kenner relaunch . . . so that Galoob stuff was absolutely brilliant in comparison to the Bend Ems.

c) Why is Chewie in Episode 3 ? I have no ****ing idea but he doesn't need to be, that's for sure.

JEDIpartnr -

Thanks for the culinary treasure. I shall try it sometime !

Deo -

Nice to have you back. Too bad you have to deal with these talks of wet dreams . . . men have all the fun !

JEDIpartner
04-15-2004, 09:07 AM
JEDIpartnr -

Thanks for the culinary treasure. I shall try it sometime !
Anytime, pal! ;)

arctangent
04-15-2004, 09:28 AM
Stilla, I promise you, come (H, E, double hockey-stix) or highwater, I shall try to restore your faith in the last installment of the Star Wars saga.. For pete's sake, remember the furry Chewie, and the ever wise Yoda together on Kashyyk, and the transformation of Palpy before our eyes, and Ani resurrected as Vadey, and sweet, forlorn Padme perishing.. remember these things that were in our dreams, and are NOW going to be realized in film (one more year)..
BELIEVE

an exercise in futility if ever there was one :ermm: !

stillakid
04-15-2004, 09:45 AM
stillakid -

a) maybe George will pull the wool over your eyes (like he did with the last movie) and you'll initially enjoy Episode III before you mount your campaign against it.

b) hell, I was excited to get those ridiculous Bend Em figures before the Kenner relaunch . . . so that Galoob stuff was absolutely brilliant in comparison to the Bend Ems.

c) Why is Chewie in Episode 3 ? I have no ****ing idea but he doesn't need to be, that's for sure.


a) anything is possible. I'm as susceptable to human frailty as much as the next guy. But I think that you're mischaracterizing my initial reaction. I can't recall exactly without digging through the archives, but I vaguely recall a guarded response. While I didn't lash out immediately, I didn't sing it's praises in the way you are infering. It took some time to digest the barrage of eye-candy and sift down to the story level (or lack of it as time eventually revealed).

b) I'm happy to say that I never got excited about the Bend-ems. I figure I saved around $50 bucks. :D

c) Chewie is in Episode III for the same reason that R2 had a trumpeted identification ceremony in Episode I, for the same reason we see a lil' Greedo in TPM, for the same reason we see the Swiss Fett Family Singers and their traveling Slave I microbus, and why we'll see both the gratuitous delivering (sound the trumpets again) of lil' Luke to Tatooine and the gratuitous montage of Battle-Damaged Anakin with Kung Fu Grip being transformed into Origins: Darth Vader, the early years.

Lucas is trying to pander to that "nostalgiac" warm hug feeling that everyone obviously has running through them whenever they see one of those adorable links to the Original films that they remember from their heartwarming innocent and naive childhoods. Thanks Uncle George! In a world full of such trouble as we witness everyday it's nice to know that you can transport us to a different galaxy and let us forget about war and turmoil for just a couple of hour.... er,uh ... :ermm:


Anyhow, I DO always hold out hope as the future isn't yet written (except according to Terminator 3 in which it apparently is). While I don't seek out spoilers in any way, the bits that have crossed my path don't bode well. Anything could happen however so the jury will remain out until the last credit rolls off the screen.

Deoxyribonucleic
04-15-2004, 10:39 AM
stillakid -
Deo -

Nice to have you back. Too bad you have to deal with these talks of wet dreams . . . men have all the fun !

THANKS Caesar ;) and no worries, it's my second favorite subject next to Star Wars :eek: lol

hehe

2-1B
04-15-2004, 01:02 PM
Deo - let's just say you're my "inspiration." ;)

Stilla - I didn't mean to infer that you were singing AOTC's praises. I just remember you initially saying it wasn't a bad movie (as opposed to your incredibly visceral hatred of the film these past nearly 2 years). :D

stillakid
04-16-2004, 12:14 AM
Stilla - I didn't mean to infer that you were singing AOTC's praises. I just remember you initially saying it wasn't a bad movie (as opposed to your incredibly visceral hatred of the film these past nearly 2 years). :D


I wouldn't go quite that far still. True, Episode I is a truly bad film aside from anything that has to do with Star Wars specifically. As a filmmaking enterprise, there is a lot of room for improvement.

Attack of the Clones has similar problems but not nearly on the scale as The Phantom Menace. I give AOTC a slight break because its problems are inherently built upon a poor foundation. I think that George pulled out his "faster more intense" card on this second episode in hopes that the audience wouldn't have time to notice where the story was falling short. It's an admitted strategy of his so I feel like I'm being fair in drawing that conclusion. In any case, I certainly don't have a "visceral hatred" of AOTC.


I guess if we were to put my feelings for the saga episodes on some sort of scale where 1 was "Goddamn, this couldn't possibly get any better!" and 10 is "I'd rather tear my eyeballs out than watch another frame of this," then the results might fall into something like this:

ANH = 2
ESB = 3 or 4
ROTJ = 3 or 4
TPM = solid 9
AOTC = 6 or 7


Hmm, poll idea for the masses maybe?

Darth Kirk
04-16-2004, 01:47 AM
Stilla, that is not fair- when you state that Lucas' reasoning for bringing back characters is to be gratuitous and to tickle our nostalgic fancy for the OT.. That sounds like the banter of a cynic.. So how else is he supposed to draw the strings together between the OT and the PT; he will show us the etymology about why Luke ended up on Tat and how he was separated from Leia, and will show us what a great warrior Chewie was.. Itís all in the way you look at things.. Yea he could have found other ways, but it is his creation, and it does sound coooooool to me.. Stilla, look deep, deeeeeeep, deeeeeeeeeeeeeep, within your heart, and find that spark that enraptured you to the OT, and embrace the absolution of positivity and release your dismay.
RELEASE

stillakid
04-16-2004, 10:15 AM
Stilla, that is not fair- when you state that Lucas' reasoning for bringing back characters is to be gratuitous and to tickle our nostalgic fancy for the OT.. That sounds like the banter of a cynic.. So how else is he supposed to draw the strings together between the OT and the PT; he will show us the etymology about why Luke ended up on Tat and how he was separated from Leia, and will show us what a great warrior Chewie was.. Itís all in the way you look at things.. Yea he could have found other ways, but it is his creation, and it does sound coooooool to me.. Stilla, look deep, deeeeeeep, deeeeeeeeeeeeeep, within your heart, and find that spark that enraptured you to the OT, and embrace the absolution of positivity and release your dismay.
RELEASE

It's an entirely fair and accurate conclusion. Lucas admitted it himself in an issue of The Insider a few months ago when discussing why Jango Fett was written in. It's not "cynical." It's factual. It may seem negative, but I'm just being pragmatic. Lucas has a vested interest in "pleasing the fans," because it's his money at stake. Unfortunately, he thinks that by drawing the shortest line between two points is the way to do it, he is writing a far less interesting story than that one he began with.

In terms of the specifics you mention above, we ALREADY KNOW the circumstances behind Luke winding up on Tatooine. It was already explained fully in the OT films. Why belabor it? Not only that, but Luke's relationship with Leia and Vader are two of the biggest "secrets" and surprises of the saga. By just "throwing it out there" by showing it blatantly onscreen in Episode III, those dramatic elements of the OT will be ruined forever. It's like writing a mystery building up to "who done it," then writing the prequel which tells you the answer upfront. Why bother?

Chewie? Great warrior? Not only was that never suggested in the OT (the foundation for the continuity in the story), even if it was, is it really necessary to see it? What I mean is that why can't characters enter the story only when necessary and do what they do and then leave? I'm sure, say, Admiral Ozzel had an interesting childhood and career which led up to him commanding a Star Destroyer but is it necessary to go back and SEE all of that in Episode III? I doubt it. Decent material for a paperback or comic book but why waste time in the primary story on screen with ancillary stuff like that? The obvious answer with B-characters like Chewie or Boba Fett is that Lucas is pandering...yes PANDERING, to the perceived desires of fanboys. I say perceived because by definition, all of us geeks who still collect the toys and talk about these films fall into that category, yet only a scant few truly understand why Lucas feels the need to link each and every element of the OT to a prior event in the Prequels.

Despite the obvious nonsense of it all, is it still "cooooooool" on it's own? Sure, why not? Who wouldn't want to see a tribe of Wookies go at it or see Anakin go into the mask? But doing stuff like that in the primary story on screen is a waste of precious time when the real storyline has a lot to impart. Save the Wookies for Cartoon Channel. Save Anakin's transformation for a Graphic Novel. Save Luke's journey to Tatooine for a paperback. Let's save the Prequel's 6 hours for the far more interesting and relevant political elements that get us into the problems in the first place. If something like a Wookie sequence can be worked in to the story as a wholely relevant sequence without just being shoehorned in, then, and only then, should it be included.

Deoxyribonucleic
04-16-2004, 11:49 AM
It's an entirely fair and accurate conclusion. Lucas admitted it himself in an issue of The Insider a few months ago when discussing why Jango Fett was written in. It's not "cynical." It's factual. It may seem negative, but I'm just being pragmatic.


It's OK to be negative about these horrible, rotten, pieces of...err, I mean, movies. :ermm:

:bored:




:crazed:


:D

Darth Kirk
04-18-2004, 02:04 PM
First off, had these been pieces of rotten ?!*#$, then I do NOT believe we would all be here having any discussions.. It would just be a plain fact that these films were crap and we would all move on.. The fact is, these films are NOT complete crap, because you still DO have individuals that enjoy these films and wish to defend them (like myself and many others that do not even know of this forum).
Now Stilla, I guess if one is to just simply and meticulously find points of contention with the current PT, like you so eloquently have pointed out, I ask you then to tell me what it is you DO want to see for the last installment. I have a feeling that no matter what it is that Lucas shows us on the screen, certain former fans, will still complain about this or that or how uncomfortable the chairs were in the movie theatre. I am hoping that you are not one of them, and in fact, you are looking at this matter in a just and fair manner, and not being contentious for ther sake of argument.

stillakid
04-18-2004, 03:48 PM
First off, had these been pieces of rotten ?!*#$, then I do NOT believe we would all be here having any discussions.. It would just be a plain fact that these films were crap and we would all move on.. The fact is, these films are NOT complete crap, because you still DO have individuals that enjoy these films and wish to defend them (like myself and many others that do not even know of this forum).
Now Stilla, I guess if one is to just simply and meticulously find points of contention with the current PT, like you so eloquently have pointed out, I ask you then to tell me what it is you DO want to see for the last installment. I have a feeling that no matter what it is that Lucas shows us on the screen, certain former fans, will still complain about this or that or how uncomfortable the chairs were in the movie theatre. I am hoping that you are not one of them, and in fact, you are looking at this matter in a just and fair manner, and not being contentious for ther sake of argument.

I like your reasoning manner, DK. :)

While many here would find solace in not believing me, I do not argue for the sake of argument nor create chaos where there is none. It is Mr. Lucas who has, dare I say, betrayed his loyal fans by not continuing the Star Wars Saga in the spirit in which it began. We here are merely observers and reporters of what has been laid in front of us. Be the elements good or bad, none of us are responsible for their creation. That responsibility lies with Lucas alone.

As I've stated before, I am an eternal optimist of the worst kind. I give everything the benefit of the doubt and unfortunately, that attitude all too frequently ends in disappointment as humanity doesn't manage to live up to, what I consider, "acceptable" standards. There's a general lack of common sense which prevails throughout society no matter what we're talking about. So when it comes to Star Wars, an "important" topic for sure ( :rolleyes: ) ( ;) ) , the frustration of many fans resonates to this day after the unfortunate blunder of Episode I. While countless many actually did walk away and gave the saga no more of their time, a few of us have stuck with it for one reason or another.

While I believe that it is admirable to remain optimistic and that it is only fair to never prejudge, the future only exists because of the past that came prior to it. True, Episode III does not yet exist as a complete entity as of this moment in time, yet we can make educated guesses as to what it will contain and then judge the potential and probably quality from that.

I surmise that your question regarding what I would like to see in Episode III derives from frustration from my tenacious style. I can understand that, but my listing of specifics in this regard amounts to my rewriting the entire Prequel Trilogy. It is not enough to apply bandaids when major surgery is necessary. Besides which, rewriting the new trilogy in my own image is an exercise in futility. The Star Wars Saga is not mine to tell. I personally have other things to occupy my time and energy. My critique is not a product of what I wanted, rather from what I expected to see following the continuity and quality of the original trilogy. In that regard, George failed to follow through and therein lies the source of this continued discussion here at SSG.

:D

Darth Kirk
04-18-2004, 10:03 PM
I truly understand your point of view, I would like to simply ask you then-('...My critique is not a product of what I wanted, rather from what I expected to see following the continuity and quality of the original trilogy.') What is it you expected to see?
If continuity is one of them, has he not fulfilled that area by telling us from whence Ani came and the beginning turmoil of the Republic etc. etc... And as for quality of storytelling, that may lie in the manner of filmmaking that Lucas has now adopted.. Some do enjoy the way he tells the stories now.. Yes, there is a difference in the words and plot and visuals, but then again time has made us all much more avid and critical fans; but does that take away from what these films represent? For some, it may be more than just the movies, it is a way of life, and thusly they find comfort and happiness with what they see today; by choosing not to see the flaws, if any.. Then there are many others who will watch it thrice and then move on and be able to see flaws.. And yet others who don't even care... I guess most of us fall between the rabid fandom and film critic categories.. Yet the simple fact remains that at the end of the day, Star Wars will be remembered because of its characters, images, and action from both Trilogies, and when Episode III is finally released, we will all be able to look back and say, DARN, that was one heckofa cooool sextology..Hey, the sequel trilogy may loom on our horizons??? :) Ninthology?? anyone??? Is that what it is ninthology? lol

JEDIpartner
04-19-2004, 08:36 AM
I was at a party this past weekend and I overheard three separate conversations about films and all three made references to how awful the saga has gotten. *shrugs* I didn't waste my time trying to defend them. I know they aren't amazing pieces of storytelling anymore. I still enjoy them, though... :)

Darth Kirk
04-19-2004, 02:45 PM
Yup, I do have to admit that the discontent with this trilogy is far greater than with the original trilogy. Yet lest not forget that there are peeps out there that just don't see any shortcomings, and still enjoy the films like they did with the OT.. Does it mean that certain people are more discerning film watchers and others are not?? I say NIET! Its like the saying goes, ĎThe beauty in film is in the eye of the beholderí... :)

arctangent
04-20-2004, 07:13 AM
i find it interesting that stilla chose the word 'betrayed'. there are obviously man star wars enthusiasts who wanted one thing and were given another.

i don't know very much about the original story that george lucas wrote as a whole but i think part of the problem is the length of time between filming the two trilogies. films and film-making have changed a great deal in the intervening years (due in no small part to star wars itself) and perhaps george lost focus on what the original story was going to be. lets face it, he has spent lots of years thinking about the prequels and obviously had many new ideas about where to take the story line for good or ill. i would bet that jar jar binks and many other characters didn't exist in the original story. and, of course, many of us look back at the original trilogy with rose tinted specs.

i am sure, if he had made the prequels much sooner after return of the jedi we would have ended up with substantially different films as george wouldn't have had so much time to tinker with the storyline as it was.

Tom Araya
04-20-2004, 07:36 PM
Oh, hi. I could hear you guys down the hall and I thought I'd put my ear against the door and listen to what all the ruckus was about. :nerv:













Actually I just wanted to use the word "ruckus".................









and "poop"..........














Together........... "Poop ruckus"......






Thanks for listening. :neutral:















Oh, and the prequels blow donkeys. :beard:



:speech: <-------- Censorship.....a baaaad, bad thing.

stillakid
04-20-2004, 11:57 PM
I truly understand your point of view, I would like to simply ask you then-('...My critique is not a product of what I wanted, rather from what I expected to see following the continuity and quality of the original trilogy.') What is it you expected to see?
If continuity is one of them, has he not fulfilled that area by telling us from whence Ani came and the beginning turmoil of the Republic etc. etc...
"Whence Ani came" from and the "beginning turmoil of the Republic" are not continuity issues. Because Anakin exists in the OT, we know that he has a past and a rather undefined one at that (according to the OT). In the same way, the OT chronicles the dark years of the Republic, so we can infer that there were good years that preceded that time. So no, those aren't really "continuity" issues per se on that broader level.

The problem comes in at the detail level. This is what someone like SSG member Jar Jar Binks calls "nitpicking." If you look too closely at the story, the flaws leap out which is why we're not encouraged to do that. We're supposed to "enjoy it for what it is."

So what did I expect to see based on what the OT implied? I expected to see a saga which focused more on the political trouble of the Republic and less on goofball antics and non-sensical trade disputes. While I'm moderately happy with the amount that we see of Palpatine's manuveurings, I would like to see more of it in relation to other members of the Senate. I expected to see a young and brash Obi Wan Kenobi stumble across a freighter pilot named Anakin Skywalker. I expected to see Obi Wan choose to train the similarly aged guy because he thought he could do it just as well as his own teacher, Yoda. I expected to see Obi Wan's training methods fail as Anakin fell victim to the seduction of Palpatine. (We are kind of getting some of that, but Anakin is as much a victim of Palpatine as he is of his own bi-polar irrational 4-year old mentality self at this point. In other words, he's not falling prey to the Dark Side so much because of the seduction, but rather because he's a big f'cking baby.) I expected to see "a more civilized age," mostly devoid of blasters where the lightsaber and those who held them were seen in an esteemed light. (Instead what we are getting is a wild west atmosphere where the Jedi are nothing but beat cops in anything but a civilized age. I imagine that Lucas had something of a Samurai sort of society in mind when Old Ben spoke those words...a society where firearms were not the norm and Jedi were distinguished and respected. The Prequels don't even begin to hint at anything like that.) I expected to see that "Uncle" Owen was really Obi Wan's brother as the Lucas approved novelization said. (This new concept where Owen is Anakin's brother in law is not only ridiculous, but introduces a large array of problems in and of itself.)

I didn't expect to see a parade of secondary OT characters being lined up to tell their life stories, such as the previously mysterious Boba Fett, the up and coming Chewbacca and maybe lil' Han, and Greedo. I didn't expect such a moronic trumpet announcement of R2 D2. I didn't expect the idiotic building of C3PO by Anakin. Never in a million billion years would I have expected that Midichlorians would be the reason some characters can control the Force and others can't (fyi: this is one of the continuity errors b/n the OT and the Prequels). I never expected that Lucas would continue to "borrow" from DUNE so heavily by making Tatooine be the center of just about everything that happens.

That's most of it I think. There may be more that I'm just not thinking of at this moment.


And as for quality of storytelling, that may lie in the manner of filmmaking that Lucas has now adopted.. Some do enjoy the way he tells the stories now.. Yes, there is a difference in the words and plot and visuals, but then again time has made us all much more avid and critical fans; but does that take away from what these films represent?
"Represent"? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that.

But I would like to say this in response to your implication that we are all now more critical fans than we used to be. By saying that you're implying that we just don't enjoy the Prequels the way we enjoyed the OT because as kids we were obviously too stupid to see the flaws back then. Nonsense. I can disprove that theory right now by simply rewatching the OT films and seeing them with my "adult" eyes. Some might claim that I am viewing them through rose-colored nostalgia glasses which would obscure any true critical thought. You'll just have to trust me when I deny that charge. I look at the OT films and see the very few flaws that do exist...flaws which I recognized back then. I also see 3 films which were well written for what they were and well executed from start to finish. Through those same eyes I look upon the Prequels and see something very different. I see 2 films which scoff at the established continuity, 2 films which are full of plot holes and stupid dialogue, and 2 films which, in and of themselves, fall short of what "normal" society generally deems to be "good" cinema. Nobody's asking for Othello, but anything at least on par with the OT films would have been good enough. They didn't even need to be "better." Just as good would have been fine.


Yet the simple fact remains that at the end of the day, Star Wars will be remembered because of its characters, images, and action from both Trilogies, and when Episode III is finally released, we will all be able to look back and say, DARN, that was one heckofa cooool sextology..Hey, the sequel trilogy may loom on our horizons??? :) Ninthology?? anyone??? Is that what it is ninthology? lol
Unfortunately you're right. The simple fact is that both trilogies will be remembered...separately. The first will be remembered as influential and groundbreaking while people will only shake their heads at the mention of the Prequels. Heck, I speak as though it will happen in the future. It's happening right now. Lucas would have to pull off a virtual miracle to turn this game around because right now it's the bottom of the ninth (sixth ;) ) with two outs, nobody on base, and the pitcher up to bat against Eric Gagne. Lucas has 2 strikes against him. Episode III has to be a perfect pitch straight down the middle to even have a ghost of a chance to get Lucas out of this mess. Even then, he can't ever undo the first two strikes against him. They're already out there. The damage is done.

JEDIpartner
04-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Secondary characters or not, I remember hearing that Threepio and Artoo would be in all of the films. I was a little less annoyed than most with the "moronic trumpet announcement of R2-D2" as this was the first we time we are introduced to him. I would have preferred that Threepio had been property of the Naboo Royal House rather than Anakin's school project. They could have had a vague history of having worked with each other before Episode I.

It doesn't really matter though. That's not what we were handed. Like it or not, this is the way Uncle George is laying it out. Therefore, I throw adult logic out of the window and just sit back and watch the films and enjoy them.

vadersvette
04-21-2004, 03:53 PM
Yeah, he's writing it and we're not so we shouldn't b***t about it. He's had the story i his head since the 70s, and they are, like the OT,his ideas. I remember seeing an interview with him that was from the 80s that he said that he had wanted to show the backstory of the series (I'm not sure what it was on). Its just that some the story is not as good as the rest. (picture a novel that is boring at first, but gets better in the second half) :ermm:

stillakid
04-21-2004, 09:52 PM
Yeah, he's writing it and we're not so we shouldn't b***t about it. He's had the story i his head since the 70s, and they are, like the OT,his ideas. I remember seeing an interview with him that was from the 80s that he said that he had wanted to show the backstory of the series (I'm not sure what it was on). Its just that some the story is not as good as the rest. (picture a novel that is boring at first, but gets better in the second half) :ermm:

I'm still trying to figure out what naughty word "b***t" could be...

But I think it's wonderful to show the backstory per the established continuity. Had he just made some lousy movies that did follow the original plan I probably wouldn't whine half as much. He just would have made some less than stellar movies. But as a film industry professional, many of the errors he is making are amateurish and he should know better. There's no excuse....there's no good excuse for it. Therein lies the rational and validity of complaining about it all.

Emperor Howdy
04-22-2004, 01:17 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what naughty word "b***t" could be...

Oh, silly stillakid...it's "bruit", meaning he doesn't want us to be "noisy" about the whole issue.

Of course, he could be concerned about a bigot wearing a real beaut of a beret. :ermm:




:beard:

JEDIpartner
04-22-2004, 07:45 AM
I was thinking "bruit" also!!! :D

Deoxyribonucleic
04-22-2004, 03:13 PM
First off, had these been pieces of rotten ?!*#$, then I do NOT believe we would all be here having any discussions.. It would just be a plain fact that these films were crap and we would all move on..


mmmmmm, not true!

Because it's fun to talk about rotten things and these movies are just that, rotten! And I like to say how rotten they are because it makes me feel better about myself to know that there's something out there more rotten than myself!

j/k of course :crazed:

:beard:

chrisc
04-22-2004, 03:53 PM
I just hope Episode 3 is better.

arctangent
04-23-2004, 06:33 AM
Yeah, he's writing it and we're not so we shouldn't b***t about it. He's had the story i his head since the 70s, and they are, like the OT,his ideas. I remember seeing an interview with him that was from the 80s that he said that he had wanted to show the backstory of the series (I'm not sure what it was on). Its just that some the story is not as good as the rest. (picture a novel that is boring at first, but gets better in the second half) :ermm:

he may have had the story in his head since the 70's but as i mentioned before he has had far too long to think about it, have new ideas, come up with new plot lines, new characters, etc...

not bad in itself as long as he kept sight of the story as a whole. i know we will never get to know but i still think that the prequels would have been substantially different if the had been made soon after rotj.

i know he was waiting for the special effects industry to reach a point where he could do what he wanted but that is partly why so many b***t - many people believe the story has taken a back seat to the effects, that the story is almost an afterthought and just a way to tie all the effects driven parts of the films together.

stillakid
04-23-2004, 11:47 AM
but that is partly why so many b***t -


What is it that we do? ;)

vadersvette
04-23-2004, 02:43 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what naughty word "b***t" could be...

Just a typo....I meant to say bi*ch :D lol :D lol :D

stillakid
04-23-2004, 03:23 PM
Just a typo....I meant to say b***h :D lol :D lol :D


Of course. I want to "booth" many times every day. :D

arctangent
04-26-2004, 05:02 AM
What is it that we do? ;)

not entirely sure. i was just following vadersvette's lead ;) . if i had known she meant b***h, i wouldn't have mentioned it because i would never do anything so rude as boothing. that's just plain disgusting lol !

vadersvette
04-26-2004, 08:12 PM
if i had known she meant b***h, i wouldn't have mentioned it because i would never do anything so rude as boothing.

Not to get off topic, but I'm a he, not a she! :D :D :D

Deoxyribonucleic
04-26-2004, 08:46 PM
Not to get off topic, but I'm a he, not a she! :D :D :D

I was wondering :confused: hehe :crazed:

so you are a :beard:, not a :kiss:?

woops off topic sorry, I'll ad something to be back on topic...GL is a horrible writer, he needs to go back to school and get an MA in creative writing! Then, maybe then these prequels might have had a chance to be decent!

arctangent
04-27-2004, 04:55 AM
Not to get off topic, but I'm a he, not a she! :D :D :D

sorry about that :) !

2-1B
09-04-2005, 03:23 AM
I didn't notice Voolvif Monn in ROTS and what happened to Jasper McKnives ? I missed him. :(

2-1B
12-03-2006, 12:43 PM
I just hope Episode 3 is better.

It was okay but The Phantom Menace is still the best of the 6.

General_Grievous
12-06-2006, 03:03 PM
Already, the parade of DUMB NAMES has begun for Ep3 - we've already seen General Grievous (why not General Bada$$, or General Icky? - what is this, WWE?)

Teasing hurts. :cry:

CaptainSolo1138
12-09-2006, 09:33 PM
Teasing hurts. :cry:
That's hilarious!

Seriously though, I feel the same way. My thoughts can best be expressed in a monologue from the Best Page in the Universe:

Speaking of, that reminds me of the character "General Grievous" a bad guy so sinister, his very name stands for PAIN AND SUFFERING. Nice job a**holes. Tired of thinking up awesome names like "Lord Dooku" and "Nute Gunray" for your bad guys? Why not just call all your characters "Evil" and "Bad" next time? All Grievous needed was a monocle, and a large black moustache that he could twirl as he cackled "I'll get you, if it's the last thing I do!" Ditch this bull****.

2-1B
12-25-2007, 11:54 PM
That was the 4th best page, 3rd at the most (if I'm being generous).