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Bosskman
03-29-2004, 06:31 PM
Do any of you guys have songs that you find so annoying that your blood boils? I sure do. Here are my top 3:

Mmmmbop
Who let the dogs out
That damn black eye peas "Where's the love"

Just thinking about them makes veins pop out on my bald head.

Kidhuman
03-29-2004, 06:47 PM
Good God, I could make a list a mile long.

MMMMmmmbop is up there
Macarena
anything by Striesand
Half of hip hop today
Anything by Britney
Celine Dion


Thats about all I can think of right now

El Chuxter
03-29-2004, 06:56 PM
Funny, I always found MMMBop to be strangely catchy. :D

First, any new music played on country stations that isn't by Willie Nelson or the Dixie Chicks.

Second, and I know I'll take serious flak about this, any song written about 9-11 (with the following exceptions: Springsteen's "The Rising," Neil Young's "Let's Roll," and the songs by Bon Jovi and Live that I am blanking on the names of). They're all inappropriately trite. Especially that godawful "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning." Aside from being one of the most poorly written songs I've heard, there's one line that makes zero sense and even someone as dumb as Alan Jackson proved himself to be by actually releasing this song should've realized it. Who the hell was "on a stage in LA" at 6 in the freakin' morning?

Kidhuman
03-29-2004, 07:06 PM
The Live song is We Will(shall?) Overcome.

Bosskman
03-29-2004, 07:19 PM
How could I have forgotten Celine Dion and Streisand? Oh yeah, and Micheal Bolton too. The cream of the crap.

Here's a few more:

Can't stop by the RHCP - I usually like thier stuff but that one blows
That damn aerosmith song from Armageddon - I was living in barracks on an army base that summer and a guy upstairs played it so much I almost broke into his room and smashed his CD player.

James Boba Fettfield
03-29-2004, 07:59 PM
Crash Into Me from Dave Matthews. That song always threw me into an angry state of mind. I compare it to what the redesigned Toys R Us stores do to me when I visit them. It's that bad!

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-29-2004, 08:23 PM
Crash Into Me from Dave Matthews. That song always threw me into an angry state of mind. I compare it to what the redesigned Toys R Us stores do to me when I visit them. It's that bad!

Actually, JBFF, I used to be a huge DMB fan, so in all fairness it was Dave Matthews BAND. But yeah, i have grown tired of that song since i've been on my anti-DMB trip since 2001.

My vote would have to go for anything by Limp Bizkit. :D

James Boba Fettfield
03-29-2004, 08:33 PM
Well, I'll have you know Fred Durst wants his group's name to be written as limpbizkit. No capitalization and spacing for him! It is one of those dumb things you read and never forget.

I would also like to add Last Caress from The Misfits. After listening to that I stopped my buddy from playing anymore of the Misfits cd. After going back to hear if the rest of the cd was bad, I came to the conclusion it was, but Last Caress sure did provide a clear example of how bad the Misfits sounded to me.

2-1B
03-30-2004, 02:27 AM
Last Caress is a GREAT song. Too bad Metallica had to rape it. :D

Well I'll agree on the "anything" by Dave Matthews Band, Limp Dogdick, and let me throw Toby Keith in there as well. He's like the new Garth Brooks in terms of popularity and while I'm not a Garth Brooks fan I could at least stomach his songs without severe vomiting.

Chux you are SO right about most of those 9-11 songs. What's that other one, "Have You Forgotten" by Darryl Worley or somebody with a name similar to that.
Alan Jackson: I think he was actually way down yonder on the Chatahoochie when 9-11 happened.

But as far as the current song which is the basis of my sheer hatred, that's an easy one. I can't even tell you the name of it but it's the current single by Maroon 5. What a piece of **** that song is. Truly horrible and when I hear it at work I am envious of the deaf. :dead:

stillakid
03-30-2004, 11:33 AM
I've always hated What's Love Got to Do With It? from Tina Turner. Also She Works Hard for the Money by Donna Summer. And to finish the specific list, We Built This City by Starship. Truly awful on every level those abominations are.

Non-specifically I abhor almost all Hip-hop and rap. Some of the most uncreative crap ever pawned off as music. Only GL "borrows" as much to "create" his art. :rolleyes:

El Chuxter
03-30-2004, 11:51 AM
Well I'll agree on the "anything" by Dave Matthews Band, Limp Dogdick, and let me throw Toby Keith in there as well. . . Chux you are SO right about most of those 9-11 songs. What's that other one, "Have You Forgotten" by Darryl Worley or somebody with a name similar to that.

And lest we forget, Toby Keith, in the words of Natalie Maines, embodied everything that is wrong with country music with "The Angry American" (or as I call it, "that friggin' stupid 'boot-in-your-booty' song"). Remember back in the good old days when music decried war, not glorified it? I'm not going for a political statement when I say this, but I find it incredibly odd that the same folks who record songs about how anyone opposed to war is un-American and satanic and whatever are the ones who tell folks like Sheryl Crow to "shut up and sing" when they're merely wearing a guitar strap that says "Give peace a chance."

But I digress. For that reason and many others, I must wholeheartedly agree with Toby Keith is definite poopiepants. I have both the recent live all-star Willie Nelson CDs, with collaborations from Norah Jones to Steven Tyler, John Mellencamp to Ray Charles, ZZ Top to Wyclef Jean, and the two tracks with Keith are the only ones I'd ever skip over.

And as one Aerosmith fanatic to another, the live rendition of "One Time Too Many" beats the snot out of the studio version, even if only Steven's present. :)

Mandalorian Candidat
03-30-2004, 12:02 PM
For me it's anything by John Mayer. I saw him on SNL and he kept sticking out his tongue while he sang. It was so friggin annoying I can never listen to another song of his without thinking of that Brady Bunch episode where Alice sees that big ole' beef tongue in Sam the Butcher's shop.

I also can't stand that Clocks song by Coldplay. The piano intro is so repetitive it sounds like something the CIA would use to drive an interogatee insane to get him to talk.

Berlin is also the most inane band ever. Richard Blade on KROQ would always play them cause he had a fling with the lead singer and I couldn't get "Metro" out of my head one day while taking a test at school.

2-1B
03-30-2004, 12:16 PM
And lest we forget, Toby Keith, in the words of Natalie Maines, embodied everything that is wrong with country music with "The Angry American" (or as I call it, "that friggin' stupid 'boot-in-your-booty' song").

How could I ever forget that POS song? It was at the top of MY list when I made my post. "Well Saddam put his name at the top of this list and the statue of Liberty started shaking her first." :D

I just laugh whenever I hear it because of the current debates about the necessity of hitting Iraq with more or less gusto than Al Qaeda but then this Jingo comes along and puts Sadaam in his place. :p

"Brought to you courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue" . . . . after the song has faded into the past, I'm sure it will be used as an advertising song for Pabst. :crazed:

evenflow
03-30-2004, 02:10 PM
Anything from the Darkness, Vines, White Stripes, Hives, Vendetta Red, etc....just aweful.

mabudonicus
03-30-2004, 03:48 PM
Ooooohhhhh, this could be fun...
First, I second (witty, eh??) all of those weird "pro war" "folk" songs, stupid emotional hijacking (great irony, too, the guys on fire:D)

I nominate "Hey Lawdy Momma" by steppenwolf...

"Doin it right" by the powder blues (maybe the Lanniest song ever)

"I I could fly"(not too sure on the title).... I love that song for how insanely stupid the sentiment of it is


"Swinging shepherd" and "Frim Fram sauce"... pretty much any of that trite vocal "jazz" (especially and song with the words "crazy", "silly", "nutty, "coo coo", "little" or "hip" used as pointless filler adjectives... MAN I hates that stuff)
makes me wanna get up and push the "performer" off the stage, even if I have to break the laws of reality to go through the speakers and into the past to do it

"killing me softly" always had a problem with that one, too

there's more, but I'll relinquish the floor for now :beard:

Bosskman
03-30-2004, 04:05 PM
HOOTIE AND THE BLOWFISH

Another barracks related hating-of-music. It was the summer of 95 and I spent it forced to listen to it over and over, all through the night. I still have flashbacks.

Two years later it was that damn song that puff daddy made for notorious b.i.g. PURE CRAP

I also totally hear you guys about What's love got to do with it and killing me softly.

scruffziller
03-30-2004, 04:34 PM
It has to be that "If I had a Million Dollars" that they play every hour at Wal Mart. THe most absolute dorkiest song ever. Eminem definately improved upon it.

Inspite of the fact that I loathe country music there was a song in particular that drove me up the wall. So bad that I won a local contest from a radio station called "I HATE THIS SONG" contest.

That would be:

DOWN ON THE FARM by Tim McGraw

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-30-2004, 04:53 PM
It has to be that "If I had a Million Dollars" that they play every hour at Wal Mart. THe most absolute dorkiest song ever.

You watch yourself, Scruff, i won't have any BNL bashing in my forum!!! Got that, bucko!! :crazed: Yeah, dude, i love BNL. It IS a dorky song cos it's SUPPOSED to be a dorky song. I mean, c'mon, did you really expect the line, "if i had a million dollars, i'd eat kraft dinner" to be serious?!?!? c'mon!! :D

jjreason
03-30-2004, 05:01 PM
"Walking on Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves. They were obviously trying to raise my spirits - all they managed to do was raise my ire. :mad: That song makes me want to destroy things.

scruffziller
03-30-2004, 05:02 PM
You watch yourself, Scruff, i won't have any BNL bashing in my forum!!! Got that, bucko!! :crazed: Yeah, dude, i love BNL. It IS a dorky song cos it's SUPPOSED to be a dorky song. I mean, c'mon, did you really expect the line, "if i had a million dollars, i'd eat kraft dinner" to be serious?!?!? c'mon!! :DWHOAH DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sur:

I thought they were suppose to be serious??????
The WM radio network is incoherant alot times so you would not hear all of the lyrics.
I will have to listen to it with that in mind now.

smurfvader
03-30-2004, 05:06 PM
Just about any hit song on the radio right now! :D
Anything sung (and I use that term loosely) by Hillary Duff, Britney, Madonna, Jessica, M&M, John Mayer, Dave Matthews etc.......


jiM

Bosskman
03-30-2004, 05:26 PM
I can't believe I forgot about this one: THAT POS BY NELLY AND THAT OTHER DESTINY'S CHILD ONE. You know that stupid duet. I hate it more than almost any other song there ever was.

Here are some more:

Can't hold us down by crapstina gagulera
No souvenirs by melissa ethridge
(just about anything else by melissa ethridge for that matter)
american life by madonna
imagine by jon lenon (The most over-rated song in history - and it's also a hymn to communism, go figure)

scruffziller
03-30-2004, 06:47 PM
You watch yourself, Scruff, i won't have any BNL bashing in my forum!!! Got that, bucko!! :crazed: Yeah, dude, i love BNL. It IS a dorky song cos it's SUPPOSED to be a dorky song. I mean, c'mon, did you really expect the line, "if i had a million dollars, i'd eat kraft dinner" to be serious?!?!? c'mon!! :D
Ok, I had no idea that was by them and didn't realize what BNL stood for. That blew me away.

Bosskman
03-30-2004, 07:06 PM
Yeah, I like a lot of the BNL stuff, but some of their songs are CRAP, like that one, and pnch me.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-30-2004, 07:58 PM
Yeah, I like a lot of the BNL stuff, but some of their songs are CRAP, like that one, and pnch me.

Bosskman, dude, you can't be freakin' serious!!! "If i had a million dollars" is one of their classic tunes and it's magic to hear it at a live show!!! I love "Pinch Me" as well as it has a good beat and guitar rhythm plus i like what it talks about as well. My fave song by them will probably remain "Lovers in a Dangerous Time" though. To each their own though, cheers!! :D

stillakid
03-30-2004, 08:03 PM
I
imagine by jon lenon (The most over-rated song in history - and it's also a hymn to communism, go figure)

What's wrong with Communism. :confused: On paper, at least, it's a great system...the closest to utopia that you could find. Too bad people are too frickin' greedy and selfish to ever dream that it could work in practice. Besides, that WKRP episode was one of the best and really needs to be rerun in this new Radical right wing FCC prudefest we have going on right now.

Bring back Imagine! :D

Oh, and to add to the list, anything from the overrated grungecrap Nirvana. Corporate pop not so cleverly disguised as trendy alternative.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-30-2004, 08:10 PM
Oh, and to add to the list, anything from the overrated grungecrap Nirvana. Corporate pop not so cleverly disguised as trendy alternative.

Stilla, this might be time #2 when I actually agree with you, sir. I have hated Nirvana for quite some time and i always take guff when I express my opinion on them. I also hate when anybody talks about the genius of Cobain. Funny how screaming into the microphone and playing the same 3 chords over and over is considered genius. Cheers!! :D

stillakid
03-30-2004, 08:21 PM
Stilla, this might be time #2 when I actually agree with you, sir. I have hated Nirvana for quite some time and i always take guff when I express my opinion on them. I also hate when anybody talks about the genius of Cobain. Funny how screaming into the microphone and playing the same 3 chords over and over is considered genius. Cheers!! :D

Thank you. :D Really, I'm not all that bad and only have everyone's best interest in mind when I share my pov. ;) It's funny, when I first began to critique the Prequels I had very little support and caught a lot of flak. But as time wears on I see more people stepping forward coming to the realization that I haven't been so full o' crap after all. I had a similar opinion when Guns and Roses was the "next big thing." Needless to say, finding them in the "where are they now file" kind of validates what I was saying in '90 (I think it was). The same is true for Nirvana and will be soon for the Prequels as well.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Thank you. :D Really, I'm not all that bad and only have everyone's best interest in mind when I share my pov. ;) It's funny, when I first began to critique the Prequels I had very little support and caught a lot of flak. But as time wears on I see more people stepping forward coming to the realization that I haven't been so full o' crap after all. I had a similar opinion when Guns and Roses was the "next big thing." Needless to say, finding them in the "where are they now file" kind of validates what I was saying in '90 (I think it was). The same is true for Nirvana and will be soon for the Prequels as well.

Alright, this forum is for discussion about music, not the PT and whatnot. Nuff of that, friend. :)

bobafrett
03-30-2004, 09:11 PM
"I'll be there for you" by The Rembrants. After hearing it so many times on Friends, they all became my enemies.

"All that she wants" by Ace of Base. Reminds me of my sons mom, I think she's like on her 4th husband, and God only knows how many boyfriends.

stillakid
03-30-2004, 10:34 PM
Alright, this forum is for discussion about music, not the PT and whatnot. Nuff of that, friend. :)


The PT has music. ;)

Whatnot probably does too. :D

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
03-30-2004, 10:46 PM
I think Tina Turner's "What's Love Got To Do With It?" isn't a terrible song. It's got a catchy melody and tells sorta a bio of her life.

"Imagine" by John Lennon is one of the greatest songs ever written, inmy opinion. Simplistic it may be, but it's message is clear. The world is often a dangerous, unfair, cruel place to live in, and if we eschewed all labels, possessions, and barriers than imagine how peaceful life would be. Call it Communisitic (sounds like a Rush Limbaugh retort) but I call it beautiful.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the absolutely the worst song ever recoreded by man and that would be "Mr. Roboto" by Styx. The song is so campy, so nonsenscial, so bad, I believe that was a major reason why they kicked the lead singer, Dennis DeYoung, out of the band. Worse yet is the video.

An honorable mention goes to Richard Harris' "MacArthur Park" (an oldie) with quite possibly the worst lyric ever written,

"Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again"

The song has a classical feel to it, and the lyric is totally unexpected to that type of music.

Also, a lot of these flavor of the months, (Hilary Duff, et al) are flash-in-the-pan, cutesy, bubblegum pop, crap producing, garbage singers. :D I don't like them.

Kidhuman
03-30-2004, 11:19 PM
Nirvana is good schtuff man. Sorry to hear you dont like it fellas. Even though he plays the same three chords, the man was a real talent.

2-1B
03-31-2004, 02:37 AM
Guyote, when the zombies come, I hope BNL and DMB are among the first to go. :crazed:

Bosskman, the Nelly / Kelly Rowland song in question is "Dilemma" and I agree with you about it's wretchedness. :dead:

arctangent
03-31-2004, 03:42 AM
there was a song release in the uk in the early 1980's called 'the birdy song' by the tweets. it is worse than anything else mentioned in this thread so far. if any of you ever get the chance to hear it, you will weep :cry: its that bad!

jeddah
03-31-2004, 04:52 AM
Any rock, heavy metal, in fact most things awash with guitars - esp The Beatles.

Just give me soul, Rnb and rap. :p

jeddah

arctangent
03-31-2004, 05:25 AM
Just give me soul, Rnb and rap. :p jeddah

jeddah, you are welcome to them, my man ;) .



Any rock, heavy metal, in fact most things awash with guitars - esp The Beatles.

give me heavy metal awash with guitars any day of the week. you are right about the beatles though lol !

Bosskman
03-31-2004, 07:29 AM
I hate the Beatles in general, some of their songs are OK but they're weren't "geniuses" imo.

I don't mind Mr Roboto, only because it reminds me of a MOTU character by the same name.

As for BNL, I prefer thar newer stuff like "One Week" and that Chimpanzee song (Another postard with chimpanzees, and every one is molesting me) I do like lovers in a dangerous time and some of their more serious songs, but that million dollars one is so overplayed even now I can't stand it. Actually they're one of the only Canadian Bands except for the hip that aren't clones of some amreican band, or broad musical trend.

I hate anything to do with that american idle rubbish. Last year on my annual canoe trip on the great international St Croix river which flows between my home province of New Brunswick and the state of Maine, the beat up radio that we had played that blasted kelly clarkson song 46 TIMES IN 3 DAYS!!! (it was 102.9 from Calais ME). Now that is vomitous.

I also hate anything that could fall into the category of "rap ballod".

scruffziller
03-31-2004, 09:03 AM
Nirvana is good schtuff man. Sorry to hear you dont like it fellas. Even though he plays the same three chords, the man was a real talent.
I thought they were cool back in the day until the local rock station plays them every hour to death and the songs have lost their power.

Kidhuman
03-31-2004, 09:13 AM
I thought they were cool back in the day until the local rock station plays them every hour to death and the songs have lost their power.


I hardly listen to the radio or watch MTV, so it never really bothered me.

arctangent
03-31-2004, 09:57 AM
nirvana were good but i always prefered soundgarden, pearl jam and alice in chains really.

i think the 'verse chorus verse' utilised by kurt was wearing a bit thin and i think he knew it. had kurt not killed himself i am not entirely sure there would ever have been another nirvana album anyway.

stillakid
03-31-2004, 10:54 AM
Oh yeah, Pearl Jam. Right down there with Nirvana, Prefab "alternative." Flash in the pan. At least the likes of Britney are great to look at and need I mention that she is still out there. Where are Pearl Jam and Nirvana now? :classic:

kool-aid killer
03-31-2004, 11:09 AM
Currently im hating on the that stinking "Where is the Love" song by the Black Eyed Peas. That group is wack and so is their "Hey Mama" song. Stupid. I dont like too much rock, punk, or whatever its called. Im more into R and B and the occasional rap song. Im starting to hate D12s new song, cant turn on the radio without hearing it.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-31-2004, 12:09 PM
Oh yeah, Pearl Jam. Right down there with Nirvana, Prefab "alternative." Flash in the pan. At least the likes of Britney are great to look at and need I mention that she is still out there. Where are Pearl Jam and Nirvana now? :classic:

Uh, i'd hate to burst your bubble, Kidster, but Pearl Jam are still making albums and sell out nearly tour they line up. I've seen them several times in the last few years and they still put one of the best shows ever. Granted, their stuff doesn't sell nearly as much as it used to or as much as Britney, but it's not prepacked crap. Pearl Jam has always been awesome and shall remain that way. :D

El Chuxter
03-31-2004, 01:18 PM
scruffziller, if I had a million dollars, I would buy you a fur coat. But not a real fur coat. That's cruel. :p

I'd forgotten "All That She Wants." I remember when that came out, it was so bad my friends and I made a pact to never speak the name of the group without inserting a bloodcurdling scream. And also thinking, "One day they'll learn English and kill the guy who translated that from Swedish."

stillakid
03-31-2004, 04:46 PM
Uh, i'd hate to burst your bubble, Kidster, but Pearl Jam are still making albums and sell out nearly tour they line up.


Yeah, so does Whitesnake. ;)

Jedi_Master_Guyute
03-31-2004, 04:56 PM
scruffziller, if I had a million dollars, I would buy you a fur coat. But not a real fur coat. That's cruel. :p


LOL AWESOME, Chuxter!! Simply awesome!!!! Might I say that if i had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey (haven't you always wanted a monkey?)
Hee! :crazed:

TheDarthVader
03-31-2004, 08:53 PM
I feel the need to defend Nirvana because they are still my favorite band. First of all, Rolling Stone named Nirvana's Nevermind the best album of the 90s. Second of all, over 100 writers and press voted and named "Smells Like Teen Spirit" the best song of the 90s (as conducted by VH1...there was an article in the newspaper about a year ago). Third of all, NEVERMIND has sold over 10 million copies...weird for a band that, according to you, sucked. Look at the numbers. In a time when Michael Jackson could not be toppled at the No. 1 spot on billboard, in came Nirvana and revolutionized how music was played, written, and sung. In Utero has sold millions of copies too. Fourth of all, Cobain took an IQ test and scored at "genius" level so you can't argue with the IQ test. Einstein also had a high IQ, you want to tell me he was stupid? You want to tell me he was not a genius? If so, I don't even want to read what you have to say. (If you want to look up Cobain and his IQ test go to a library or book store...you need to research facts more).
There. I feel better.

Kidhuman
03-31-2004, 10:07 PM
Pearl Jam is one of the best bands to come out of the nineties. There are one of the few bands that are still intact. Eddie Vedder can mumble his way toa top ten song(Yellow Ledbetter). They perform a damn good show inconcert. A very talented bunch that has settled down some as time progressed on, but they can still drive it home when they need to.

LusiferSam
03-31-2004, 10:45 PM
I too feel the need to stand up for Nirvana. I won't restate what TheDarthVader has already said but I'll add that both Vh1 and MTV have named "Smells Like Teen Spirit" the most important music video of the '90's and one of the most important of all time.
I also don't think Nirvana will wined up on the dune heap of music. It been ten year since Cobain offed him self and people are still taking about Nirvana and what they did. Do the Beatles or Elvis have the selling power they once did? No. And lot of people saw them a flash in the pan too. The longer people talk the less likely it is to be forgotten.

Kidhuman
03-31-2004, 10:50 PM
The Beatles are still selling CDS today. And soi s Elvis. They have been around for 40 and 50 years. I dont think Nirvana has the selling power they do, at least we cant judge it right now. We will have to wait another 30 years to see. :beard:

As important as Nirvana is/was tomusic in the 90's, the Beatles and Elvis did the same for their generations. The Beatles did it twice. They pretty much spear headed the British Invasion, which changed rock music, but todoit again with Sgt. peppers was unheard of and still is.

I am a Nirvana fan, but there is no way they will ever stand up to the Beatles or Elvis. Grunge died out way to quick for them to be. :beard:

stillakid
04-01-2004, 01:16 AM
I feel the need to defend Nirvana because they are still my favorite band. First of all, Rolling Stone named Nirvana's Nevermind the best album of the 90s. Second of all, over 100 writers and press voted and named "Smells Like Teen Spirit" the best song of the 90s (as conducted by VH1...there was an article in the newspaper about a year ago). Third of all, NEVERMIND has sold over 10 million copies...weird for a band that, according to you, sucked. Look at the numbers. In a time when Michael Jackson could not be toppled at the No. 1 spot on billboard, in came Nirvana and revolutionized how music was played, written, and sung. In Utero has sold millions of copies too. Fourth of all, Cobain took an IQ test and scored at "genius" level so you can't argue with the IQ test. Einstein also had a high IQ, you want to tell me he was stupid? You want to tell me he was not a genius? If so, I don't even want to read what you have to say. (If you want to look up Cobain and his IQ test go to a library or book store...you need to research facts more).
There. I feel better.

So Cobain is smart therefore the music is good? Okay... :rolleyes: (kids)

As far as your other research goes, all I'll say to that is The Phantom Menace has a total gross so far of $431,088,301 (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars.htm) and it still sucks. :D

Just for the sake of argument, please list all the numerous ways that Nirvana revolutionized the music industry by comparing and contrasting with examples from before their time and after.

2-1B
04-01-2004, 01:50 AM
***This is a non-partisan post as I am rather ambivalent to Nirvana***

Oddly enough, I think Nirvana's lasting legacy will not be Kurt Cobain eating a shotgun but rather a different member: Mr. Dave Grohl.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe Foo Fighters but I give the guy credit for working his way from under Cobain's shadow and finding success in a different unit on his own merits. Same for Probot now - the guy tries out a different passion of his and it seems to be working quite well. And let's not forget his work with Tenacious D !

Anyway, I guess I can enjoy Nirvana on a nominal scale but I don't own any of their albums. The idea of the "tortured soul" is tiresome to me.

Oh yeah, and Rolling Stone's opinion is of zero value to me. :)

arctangent
04-01-2004, 04:25 AM
Oh yeah, Pearl Jam. Right down there with Nirvana, Prefab "alternative." Flash in the pan. At least the likes of Britney are great to look at and need I mention that she is still out there. Where are Pearl Jam and Nirvana now? :classic:

still playing, still making good music. pearl jam have not written one bad song yet and are one of the best live bands i have ever seen (and i have seen 100's down the years). the only band i have ever seen play wembley arena and make it feel like a small club! pearl jam never claimed to be 'alternative' and ten is still one of the best debut albums ever. and courtney love hates them. thats reason enough to love pearl jam lol .



Yeah, so does Whitesnake.

don't think so. wasn't slip of the tongue their last studio album. and that was released in 1999/2000. i know they have had some compliations released recently but that hardly counts. david coverdale lost it after slide it in when he went all hair metal on us. stevie vai playing fool for your loving? do me a favour :cry: !

david coverdale resurected whitesnake with a bunch of nobodies to tour last year which, after disbanding several years ago, does rather smack of desparation.

arctangent
04-01-2004, 04:31 AM
Do the Beatles or Elvis have the selling power they once did? No.

actually, i think you will find the beatles still sell rather well. paul mccartney didn't make £45 million last year from his own music!

stillakid
04-01-2004, 11:31 AM
***This is a non-partisan post as I am rather ambivalent to Nirvana***

Oddly enough, I think Nirvana's lasting legacy will not be Kurt Cobain eating a shotgun but rather a different member: Mr. Dave Grohl.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe Foo Fighters but I give the guy credit for working his way from under Cobain's shadow and finding success in a different unit on his own merits. Same for Probot now - the guy tries out a different passion of his and it seems to be working quite well. And let's not forget his work with Tenacious D !

Anyway, I guess I can enjoy Nirvana on a nominal scale but I don't own any of their albums. The idea of the "tortured soul" is tiresome to me.

Oh yeah, and Rolling Stone's opinion is of zero value to me. :)


I'll second all of that. :)


And I'm still waiting to here how Nirvana changed the face of music forever...


...waiting....





...waiting....














...waiting...

Kidhuman
04-01-2004, 11:36 AM
Nirvana opened the door for Grunge music. Up until then, the rock music of the eighties was metal. They took the music into a different direction. It is still prevalent in alot of todays music. The whole power chord genre and all. It might not be as noticeable as the Beatles, but it is there.

El Chuxter
04-01-2004, 01:10 PM
I'm with Caesar regarding Mister Grohl. Aside from a few decent pop songs, and some extra points for bringing Leadbelly's "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" back into the limelight where it belongs, they'd be more or less forgotten by most now if Cobain hadn't killed himself. I think he said, "Hendrix is remembered, and Morrison is remembered, but kids don't give a crap about Clapton. Where's the big difference there? Hmmmmm. . . . Courtney, go get me my shotgun."

Bosskman
04-01-2004, 01:12 PM
Sales and IQ have nothing to do with good music IMO. I liked Nirvana way back when, and still do, but I'd hardly call cobain a genius. I find a lot of people jump on the music bandwagon just because it's the "cool" thing to do. It happened with the beatles, elvis, nirvana, and countless others. Hell, if that was the gauge for good music, NKOTB and the backstreet bums would be right up there too. I know myself I have bought CDs that I never really like all that much, or only like one song or two. Truth be told, there are only 3 CDs that I own that I can say I like 95% or more of what is on them They are: The Offspring (I can't remember the name of the album but it's the one with Bad Habit and Come out and Play on it) and Eminem's Slim Shady LP and Marshall Mathers LP. Other than those, every other Album I've bought (including others by the offspring and eminem) I've only liked one or a few tracks on them. I might eat $#!* but I won't call it ice cream. As far as IQ goes, it isn't what most people think it is and is largely discounted now. Intelligence, IMO, is something that can't be measured empirically, there are way too many factors that have to be considered. The IQ test is CRAP.

scruffziller
04-01-2004, 01:53 PM
LOL AWESOME, Chuxter!! Simply awesome!!!! Might I say that if i had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey (haven't you always wanted a monkey?)
Hee! :crazed:
If I had million dollars......................I wouldn't buy you crap..........:D

arctangent
04-02-2004, 03:23 AM
I'll second all of that. :)


And I'm still waiting to here how Nirvana changed the face of music forever...


...waiting....





...waiting....














...waiting...


hey stilla, they did help to kill of all the 'big hair' metal bands, poison, cinderella, et al. i am just thankful for that... :p

although on the other hand, we do have them to thank in part for the likes of nickleback, puddle of mudd, et al... :cry:

oh well, can't win them all.

stillakid
04-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Nirvana opened the door for Grunge music. Up until then, the rock music of the eighties was metal. They took the music into a different direction. It is still prevalent in alot of todays music. The whole power chord genre and all. It might not be as noticeable as the Beatles, but it is there.

You're suggesting that guitarists didn't use "power chords" until Nirvana showed them how?


I did think of something they did do. They taught a new generation how to not shower and wear clothes that would guarantee that they'd be pumping gas as a career.

Look, the whole disaffected angry youth thing is cute and all...when you're 13...but honestly, most fans of this stuff are just p.o.d because daddy wouldn't let them take the Lexus out and got stuck with the 5 year old Beemer instead. There's nothing more annoying than a bunch of over-indulged suburbanites whining that their lives "suck" because "society" requires a dress code at school so they might actually learn something and contribute. The "message" of "Grunge" might have had more respect and lasted more than 5 minutes if it had been a message with some actual content. The music itself is nothing more than exhausting "angry" noise.

El Chuxter
04-02-2004, 01:08 PM
hey stilla, they did help to kill of all the 'big hair' metal bands, poison, cinderella, et al. i am just thankful for that... :p

And that's bad in what way? ;)

2-1B
04-02-2004, 11:20 PM
I respect everyone's opinion here but I must protest the labeling of Cinderella as a "big hair metal band." :(

They are an awesome live band, still to this day, and I just see them as a solid rock band with a hint of blues. Sure there's the pop ballad "Nobody's Fool" which is included on all those goofy TV ads for compilation 80s CDs. But at least with "Don't Know What you Got", they did a heartfelt tune there.

Alright, so Jon Bon Jovi's named is attached to the Night Songs album and I realize the implications that brings with it. Indeed, the cover photo looks very "hairish" but it's only the look for that one album.
However nearly 20 years later I'll take "Night Songs", "Shake Me", and "Push Push" over ANY of the current so-called metal and rock I hear smeared all over the radio. :p

No hair metal to be found on Long Cold Winter as I'll take "Gypsy Road" and "Fallin Apart at the Seams" anyday as well. :)

Heartbreak Station goes even further and after that was Still Climbing . . . but now we're talking, uh, 1994 and of course post-Nirvana. :crazed:

jjreason
04-03-2004, 01:14 AM
The "message" of "Grunge" might have had more respect and lasted more than 5 minutes if it had been a message with some actual content. The music itself is nothing more than exhausting "angry" noise.

Well, I for one got something out of the 2 Nirvana albums that came out when I was in university ("Nevermind" and "In Utero"). The initial draw for me was how different they sounded from everything else popular that was happening at the time (think "I've got the Power" by SNAP here, that's where top 40 was at that point).

The sound is very raw, and I don't point the accusatory finger at anyone who doesn't like it. Kurt Cobain gets props from me because he made that music to get the poison out, and that's exactly what you got on the albums - all of his pent up anger and frustration (he was suffering from terrible back pain for most of his adult life, not to mention the drugs and mental turmoil that wound up leading him to kill himself).

So maybe they didn't influence the sound of music that much, and I don't recall anyone ever extolling the virtues of the message in their music. I think they did some good bringing loud rock back to the attention of the masses, it had been getting buried in the trite dance-crap of a thousand one hit wonders for a couple of years there. NKOTB anyone?

stillakid
04-03-2004, 01:20 PM
Well, I for one got something out of the 2 Nirvana albums that came out when I was in university ("Nevermind" and "In Utero"). The initial draw for me was how different they sounded from everything else popular that was happening at the time (think "I've got the Power" by SNAP here, that's where top 40 was at that point).

The sound is very raw, and I don't point the accusatory finger at anyone who doesn't like it. Kurt Cobain gets props from me because he made that music to get the poison out, and that's exactly what you got on the albums - all of his pent up anger and frustration (he was suffering from terrible back pain for most of his adult life, not to mention the drugs and mental turmoil that wound up leading him to kill himself).

So maybe they didn't influence the sound of music that much, and I don't recall anyone ever extolling the virtues of the message in their music. I think they did some good bringing loud rock back to the attention of the masses, it had been getting buried in the trite dance-crap of a thousand one hit wonders for a couple of years there. NKOTB anyone?


I see and agree with what you're saying there. Music style is cyclical like most things. A guy like Bruce Springsteen popped up as everyone had had their fill of Disco. Is he a genius? No. He just happened to have a style that was timed right for the marketplace. Disco became big because it was fun after a decade of protest music. Nirvana was nothing more than an alternative to the poppy sounds of the Eighties. But look, we're back to the relatively light and fun popcorn music again. What comes around goes around. That's why I get a chuckle out of Nirvana-ites who think they were the second-coming. It's just music.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-03-2004, 01:28 PM
(he was suffering from terrible back pain for most of his adult life, not to mention the drugs and mental turmoil that wound up leading him to kill himself).

Gonna hafta correct you, JJR: you mean all that lead to COURTNEY killing him. :crazed:

I think it all depends on how you interpret the music. While i wasn't into Nirvana, i do respect them for their staying power and how they brought bands such as Soundgarden, Sonic Youth, Pearl Jam and even Smashing Pumpkins with their 93 masterpiece "Siamese Dream" into the light. I think that grunge was there and Nirvana just helped kick it into the spotlight.

Anyway, more candidates for worst song are appreciated! :D

jjreason
04-03-2004, 01:59 PM
"Sex and Candy" by Marcy Playground. Oh, but for 15 seconds alone with a real lightsaber and the source of that evil. And on the radio every 5 minutes back in its heyday. Crikey.

evenflow
04-03-2004, 06:40 PM
That Celine Dion song from Titanic, that gets my vote. I hate her voice so much.

Kidhuman
04-03-2004, 07:32 PM
Oh, but for 15 seconds alone with a real lightsaber and the source of that evil.


Ifell that way about all these bubble gum pop stars. Just give me a weapon of my choice and 15 seconds alone. Tops would be Celine, the Babs and work down from there until there was nothing but decent musicians who actually play there music on instruments instead of stealing or borrowing riffs, or using some kind of computer tio make there own. What ever happened to honest to goodness talent?

The 'Xir
04-03-2004, 08:30 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned "The Barbie Song". This has got to be one of theeee worst songs ever!!!! I'll show Barbie a party alright!!! :eek:

They're not my favorite band of all time by far, but you Beatles' haters just kill me! I wonder how much music appreciation you can really have or how much you really know about music and music history in general, if you don't like some of their songs or atleast appreciate what the Beatles did for music!
I'm not a huge Nirvana fan either, but they've grown on me, and I'll tell you this, you can guarantee that they will be around in 50 years, simply due to the fact of the impact they had on this generation! Doesn't matter wether you think they are good or wether or not Cobain was a genius or not, they'll be around...guaranteed!

stillakid
04-03-2004, 11:10 PM
I don't wish to belabor the point, but what exactly was the "impact" that Nirvana had upon "this generation" exactly? :confused:


To add to the list, Do You Really Want To Hurt Me? from Boy George. :Ogre:

Kidhuman
04-03-2004, 11:14 PM
I don't wish to belabor the point, but what exactly was the "impact" that Nirvana had upon "this generation" exactly? :confused:


To add to the list, Do You Really Want To Hurt Me? from Boy George. :Ogre:

Stillakid....Ihope the remaining members of Nirvana cover Do you really want to hurt me for the EPIII soundtrack.

2-1B
04-04-2004, 12:36 AM
A guy like Bruce Springsteen popped up as everyone had had their fill of Disco. Is he a genius? No. He just happened to have a style that was timed right for the marketplace.

Actually, yes he is a genius. :)

Bruce was plugging along pre-disco cutting some PHENOMENAL records and he "popped up" commercially over 12 years later in 1985 which was a few years after the disco craze . . . when that pop up occurred, he was bothered at how well that one album was received so he had to wonder what he was doing wrong - because if a vast majority of radio listeners embrace your stuff, then you've obviously done something wrong.

I'm not arguing that BITUSA hit the marketplace at the right time commercially - you are right about that.

Either way, The Boss is a musical genius. :)

stillakid
04-04-2004, 03:03 AM
Stillakid....Ihope the remaining members of Nirvana cover Do you really want to hurt me for the EPIII soundtrack.


:D Now that would be worth the price of the ticket!



Another for the list that I can't stand that I'm sure will be argued: Pinball Wizard by The Who. Dumb song, bad music. Yeeuuch.

The 'Xir
04-04-2004, 04:26 AM
Another for the list that I can't stand that I'm sure will be argued: Pinball Wizard by The Who. Dumb song, bad music. Yeeuuch.

Are you reffering to the song or the whole Opera, 'cause I can understand how some might not like the whole Opera(me not being one of them) But the song itself Kicks Arse, and is one of the Top50 Rock riffs of all-time!!!

I guess Stilla has never had, crazy flipper fingers!!! :p

Kidhuman
04-04-2004, 09:53 AM
Yeah, taking that one song out of the whole, it isnt that good, but alltogether that album riocks. It would be like saying The Great Gig in the Sjy sucks, when in turn it fits into the whole picture.

stillakid
04-04-2004, 03:51 PM
Are you reffering to the song or the whole Opera, 'cause I can understand how some might not like the whole Opera(me not being one of them) But the song itself Kicks Arse, and is one of the Top50 Rock riffs of all-time!!!

I guess Stilla has never had, crazy flipper fingers!!! :p


Yeah, the song blows. I've never been much of a Who fan anyway so my opinions are a bit colored. I've never listened to the whole opera.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-04-2004, 03:59 PM
To add to the list, Do You Really Want To Hurt Me? from Boy George. :Ogre:

Stilla, actually, "Do You really want to hurt me?" was done by the Culture Club. If you're going to nominate a crappy song, at least give the crappy artists their crappy due. ;) heheheheheheh just messin'.

I would like to nominate, "If i was invisible" by Clay Aiken. Dear god, i cannot stand that song. I'd rather get my ears cut off by Mr. White than sit through that song again. Cheers! :D

jjreason
04-04-2004, 06:40 PM
My God, he's terrible. I can't believe it took us 2 whole pages of arguing to get the first mention of any "American Idol" alumnus. For the love of all things, that show MUST get cancelled forthwith. As "the Donald" would say....

"Simon............ you're fy-uhd."

Apprentice that, smart ***.

Bosskman
04-04-2004, 08:43 PM
I actually DON'T like the Beatles. I DON'T like their music. If that makes me "ignorant of music history" so be it. I feel no compunction whatsoever to like a song, or any style of music because everybody else does. I'm pretty ecclectic in my musical tastes. Some of the beatles song I find tolerable but overall I think they suck. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me but that's the way it is. I'm not gonna be counted among the countless masses to pay lip service to this highly overrated band.

stillakid
04-04-2004, 09:02 PM
I actually DON'T like the Beatles. I DON'T like their music. If that makes me "ignorant of music history" so be it. I feel no compunction whatsoever to like a song, or any style of music because everybody else does. I'm pretty ecclectic in my musical tastes. Some of the beatles song I find tolerable but overall I think they suck. I'm sorry if people don't agree with me but that's the way it is. I'm not gonna be counted among the countless masses to pay lip service to this highly overrated band.


No, I hear you. There is a distinct difference between good music and "important," whatever that means. For instance, I think that one could count early Pink Floyd in the "important" category, however a lot of it really isn't very good. I think that Madonna's influence could be considered "important" whether one likes her music or not. The Beatles definitely altered the course of pop music but that doesn't mean that one is required to like it.

A great example of influence is Blondie. I believe that it was producer Michael Chapman who took their distinctly Reggae sound and reworked the band into the poppy semi-disco band that everyone remembers. But it was the song Rapture which gives them this distinction of being influential even to this day. While white America was spinning its wheels with the tried and true, Blondie picked up on the Rap movement occurring on the streets of Harlem. Rapture named names and introduced another "black" influence into white culture. It was only a matter of time until groups like The Beastie Boys allowed white suburban kids to act black and open the door for all other forms of Rap and Hip Hop to go mainstream. Thanks to Blondie for that! :D


Toe to toe
Dancing very slow
Barely breathing
Almost comatose
Wall to wall
People hypnotised
And they're stepping lightly
Hang each night in Rapture

Back to back
Sacrailiac
Spineless movement
And a wild attack

Face to face
Sadly solitude
And it's finger popping
Twenty-four hour shopping in Rapture

Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high
DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind
Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do
And you don't stop, sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
And then you're in the man from Mars
You go out at night, eatin' cars
You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too
Mercurys and Subarus
And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars
Then, when there's no more cars
You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet
Face to face, dance cheek to cheek
One to one, man to man
Dance toe to toe
Don't move to slow, 'cause the man from Mars
Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars
Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall
He's gonna eat 'em all
Rapture, be pure
Take a tour, through the sewer
Don't strain your brain, paint a train
You'll be singin' in the rain
I said don't stop, do punk rock

Well now you see what you wanna be
Just have your party on TV
'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars when the TV's on
And now he's gone back up to space
Where he won't have a hassle with the human race
And you hip-hop, and you don't stop
Just blast off, sure shot
'Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin' cars and eatin' bars
And now he only eats guitars, get up!

2-1B
04-04-2004, 11:31 PM
I'd rather get my ears cut off by Mr. White than sit through that song again.

Good point - and at least you could get in a sample of some Rafferty / Steeler's Wheel while you're being brutalized.

jjreason
04-05-2004, 01:14 AM
That Blondie track is fine, I enjoyed many a drunken night rollerskating to it and it's "Greatest Hits" album-mates back in first year. The rap segment, however, makes me cringe.

As far as "important vs good" goes, I have no interest in listening to Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen sing, but when their songs are performed by others that actually sound half decent - they're great songs. It's all about taste, and that's completely personal. You might as well argue religion and politics. :sur: :D

EDIT: This is my "The Empire Strikes Back" release-year post! :cool:

El Chuxter
04-05-2004, 01:13 PM
What's funny about the American Idol rejects--I mean, winners--is that, during the show, each and every one of them (well, except Justin) was vocally phenomenal. Like Kelly Clarkson: for a teenaged white girl to sing "Respect" and do it justice is pretty rare. But then they put out bubblegum garbage albums that aren't worth the plastic they're stamped on. There's no way I'd put money in any of their pockets for doing stuff completely unlike what they perform on the show.

Clay's song is especially bad. My wife has that CD (sympathies will be appreciated), and the whole stupid thing sounds like the end credits to a bad 80s Cynthia Rothrock "action" movie. :dead:

Bosskman
04-05-2004, 03:09 PM
American Idle is crap. What's worse though, is the canadian counterpart. But what's even worse than that is this stupid show we had up here called "popstar". Basically, it took a bunch of loser kids of questionable talent. (although I'm sure some of them were VERY talented in other areas of the "entertainment" industry, if you know what I mean) and formed them into bands. Not surprisingly, their "one hit" and I use the term loosely, got all kind of airtime up here because of their canadian content. I can't even remember the names of the bands or their feculent songs but they were truly repulsive.

Here's another one to add to the list, funky funky christmas by NKOTB. My sister played that ad nauseum from mid-november till the end of january one year and I still get it stuck in my head at times. LIKE NOW! AAAAAAAAARGH!!!

El Chuxter
04-05-2004, 03:18 PM
Oooh, that reminds me of one that wasn't bad the first 4,863,229 times it was overplayed: "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer."

I have this kinda ehh Christmas compilation from KROQ from a few years back that has "A Message From Johnny Cash": "Hello. I'm Johnny Cash. And I'm here to remind you that it's not cool to kill at Christmas. But if you must, make sure it's the guy who sings 'Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer.'"

Couldn't agree more. :D

Bosskman
04-05-2004, 03:23 PM
Another song I absolutly hate is that POS people sing on new year's eve, oh, and jingle bell rock <shudder>

Kidhuman
04-05-2004, 03:29 PM
Awesome from the man in black

James Boba Fettfield
04-05-2004, 03:39 PM
I'd rather get my ears cut off by Mr. White than sit through that song again. Cheers! :D

Mr. Blonde!

Kidhuman
04-05-2004, 03:44 PM
It wouldnt matter who cuts em off to me.

Bosskman
04-05-2004, 03:56 PM
I hate the men in black song. Stupid song for a stupid movie.

mabudonicus
04-05-2004, 05:31 PM
Nirvana was mostly important as a giant "lowering of the bar";
The 80's ushered in the rise of the instrumental virtuoso in a way that, by about 87, had gotten impossible to top, and difficult to actually duplicate without skill
Nirvana, pearl jam, the tragically hip, all represented the industry attempt to get back to "attitude" and substitute whining for skill


The beatles, while hugely popular, were musically just ripping off the less well-represented movements of the underground garage movement also beginning at the time; many of what are considered their "psychedelic masterpieces" were just dumbed-down versions of stuff that the true, unsung visionaries were doing all over the world

Sorry, but I consider myself a fair musician and composer/arranger, and I just wanted to sorta defend the Bosskman here; the mainstream music industry is a big sham, much of what many folks consider to be "the facts" about other generations and their music are actually craftily propagated, selective "opinions" that have little to do with the actual facts of the day.

The fact that Jaco Pastorius was left off of the "50 most" list shows how shallow the "big picture" really is as presented through the carefully edited, rosy spectacles view of the history of music

Just stretching out, here, sorry, but as "important" as something is, it can still truly stink out loud.... continue :beard:

Bosskman
04-05-2004, 07:01 PM
mabudon, you too the words rite outta my mouth.

The 'Xir
04-06-2004, 01:00 AM
Well, as I said I'm no Huge beatles fan, but I just give credit where credit is due! I don't listen to all the hub-bub that everyone else follows, and I consider myself a bit of a music-historian too! And although you guys bring up some valid points, one things that I do with the music that I listen to that I really like, is look at who actually wrote the song, see if it's a cover or a contemporary rendition, and then try to find an earlier version of the same song and go buy that version of it and listen to it to compare. Although you guys are right to an extant about the Beatles ripping-off some of the movements that were transpiring around them, but they mainly ripped off the blues movement in America, which if you know anything about music history you know this practice has gone on forever!
However, my point being with all the influences and ripped licks within their songs, you can find 1000 X's that in modern music against the Beatles on top of the fact that Lennon/McCartney have actually written and sold the rights to 100's of songs and popular songs for other bands use(considered originals for them), and probably of bands that you have liked in the last 10 - 20 years and didn't even know it!!!

TheDarthVader
04-06-2004, 08:50 PM
I don't wish to belabor the point, but what exactly was the "impact" that Nirvana had upon "this generation" exactly? :confused:

I am not going to sit here and type up a bunch of pages of quotes from various "music historians" (if you will) or commentaries from a vast number of music industry personnel (because the facts are out there if you look and I will not do your research for you). Just do a search on google and weed through the thousands of files until you find the relevant ones. Look up articles in music magazines such as Rolling Stone or watch a Nirvana documentary on MTV or VH1 and those will educate you on the mainstream feelings toward music before Nirvana came into the picture and the big change after Nirvana appeared. No disrespect to you, Stillakid but the evidence I have is so lengthy that I could write a novel about the impact of Nirvana's music on people and the world. Remember, the band was an international phenom...not just limited to the U.S.

B.

kool-aid killer
04-06-2004, 09:08 PM
The Spice Girls were an international phenom too...

mabudonicus
04-06-2004, 10:29 PM
Bravo, well put Kool Aid K..... there is :beard: in that...


I now nominate "Reggae Cowboys" by whoever did that awful piece of garbage :D

:beard:

stillakid
04-06-2004, 11:53 PM
I am not going to sit here and type up a bunch of pages of quotes from various "music historians" (if you will) or commentaries from a vast number of music industry personnel (because the facts are out there if you look and I will not do your research for you). Just do a search on google and weed through the thousands of files until you find the relevant ones. Look up articles in music magazines such as Rolling Stone or watch a Nirvana documentary on MTV or VH1 and those will educate you on the mainstream feelings toward music before Nirvana came into the picture and the big change after Nirvana appeared. No disrespect to you, Stillakid but the evidence I have is so lengthy that I could write a novel about the impact of Nirvana's music on people and the world. Remember, the band was an international phenom...not just limited to the U.S.

B.

Phenomenon, maybe. Influence? I'm still waiting. I've read and heard all the ultra-fan propaganda that you suggest is out there, however in all of that I have yet to hear any details. All I ever hear (or read) is how "influential" Nirvana was and how Cobain was a "genius." Amazingly, nobody ever specifies what influence they had. So don't think you can prove your point by shrugging the work off on others who mirror your own words. See, I think that what happened is that somebody at some point got a massive woody from listening to Nirvana and decided that it was an "influential" band. His buddy over at (name of publication here) had nothing better to write about that week so he repeated it. The snowball got rolling and of course all the impressionable whiny teenie-boppers who felt that Cobain "spoke to them" joined in. That's fine and all, but that doesn't suggest in the slightest how Nirvana's music "changed music forever" and how their influence resonates in the music of today. I'm still waiting for that extensive list... Start that novel. It seems that you have a built in audience just waiting to drop the $20 bucks. :D

arctangent
04-07-2004, 05:44 AM
although i like nirvana i do rather think that kurt's 'genius/influence on a generation' status is only so great because he is dead and thus has achieved 'immortality' in the rock world. had he still been alive and making music today i wonder if he would still have the same impact as he did in the early 90's, given his aledged animosity towards krist and dave and his boredom with the sort of music nirvana were making.

Exhaust Port
04-07-2004, 07:53 AM
Nirvana was only a part of a group of imerging bands from Seattle. Similar to the British Invasion (which spawed domestic imitators) there was the Seattle-sound music explosion of the early 1990's. Nirvana was the most POPULAR out of that group but that does make them an influence. Pearl Jam, Green River, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Mother Love Bone, Temple of the Dog, Stone Temple Pilots, etc. Of any in that group I think Nirvana wasn't the biggest influencial band out of that group. 2 albums and only a few years of performances before he offed himself.

Personally I can see influences more from Soundgarden and Alice in Chains than anything remotely from Nirvana. During the early 1990's, Mother Love Bone had A LOT more to do with the Seattle sound than Nirvana ever did.

Bosskman
04-07-2004, 08:47 AM
I liked nirvana way back when, and I still like most of the old songs (they ARE old now by the way). I refuse, however, to put nirvana on some sort of pedestal. I remember around 96-97-98 or so, when I first started to go to bars and places like that, they always played songs like "who the F is Alice?", "Macarena" and the like. They were crap but everybody 19 and over (or 21 in the US) knew them. They were played continuously. I would hardly call them influential or genoius despite the fact that they undoubtedly influnce dance music today in some way. See where I'm going with this. Copycating does not mean that what is being mimicked it genious. It just means that people are trying to cash in on the same sorta stuff in the hopes that they will get played (or overplayed) as much. Nirvana is no different. So what if people were influenced by them. People are influenced by lots of things that aren't genious. Saying Cobain's a genious or the beatles are legendary is just like errecting a national memorial to the guy who wrote the line "throw your hands in the air, and wave them like you just don't care."

James Boba Fettfield
04-07-2004, 12:38 PM
Man, can we all just agree that Lemmy :beard: (that smile needs some warts) is greater than Kurt?

You will all agree with me eventually.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-07-2004, 01:27 PM
hehehehe USA Today has a huge article on "Cobain's Legacy."

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-04-06-kurt-cobain_x.htm

Enjoy! cheers!! :D

James Boba Fettfield
04-07-2004, 03:51 PM
...and every time I hear it I want to jump on my bed and go crazy.

I feel the same way about Oderus Urungus.

TheDarthVader
04-07-2004, 04:45 PM
hehehehe USA Today has a huge article on "Cobain's Legacy."

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-04-06-kurt-cobain_x.htm

Enjoy! cheers!! :D

Stillakid, I truly believe that article should suffice. USA Today is the #1 paper in America...but I guess you will find some way to discredit them. :rolleyes: And I never stated that Nirvana influenced everyone. There are just a great number of people/song writers/rockers who were influenced by Kurt.
On the MTV documentary, "Nirvana 3 years...Forever" No Doubt, Fred Durst, and Good Charlotte (AMONG OTHERS) stated that Cobain was definitely an influence upon their music. I could go on and on but I don't have the time to dig up the information right now. Go to google.com and type in the search box: Cobain Legacy or Cobain influence and weed through the articles and see what the media has to say about it. It is not hard to do. No hard feelings stillakid. :)

B.

mabudonicus
04-07-2004, 04:56 PM
Ahhh, gotta love media lip-service... I guess whiny 3 chord repetitive pop music really is goundbreaking, after all, what was I thinking
And yes, I would agree with you but I won't use :beard: in the same sentence as the "K" word

I would like to nominate "a Day in the life", by that great band the Beatles... it sounds like a really lousy Monty Python sketch, is allover the place both rhythmically and thematically and seems to have some sort of "heavy", revolutionary message, all the while being as trite as the day is long.. that song, while really great, is like a train-wreck

Now, I'm gonna start another thread, all this trying to disprove stillakid is getting ridiculous... I don't agree with everything he says, butin this case he keeps repreating himself because he's absolutely right and folks keep trying to say other wise...

Now when do I get a comment on "reggae Cowboys"???

TheDarthVader
04-07-2004, 05:03 PM
I apologize Mabudon. I am not trying to take over the thread.

Bosskman
04-07-2004, 05:58 PM
I hate any song by love inc. They're some lameass canadian dance music "band". Pure CRAP.

jjreason
04-07-2004, 06:24 PM
That's Chris Shepherd's "band" (Love Inc.). He was a Toronto area radio dance music DJ for most of the late 80's and early 90's. He knows the scene, but his take on the music was and is terrible. Pretty much the entire "cutesy" dance music genre is cacauphonic to me.

Exhaust Port
04-07-2004, 07:14 PM
Stillakid, I truly believe that article should suffice. USA Today is the #1 paper in America...but I guess you will find some way to discredit them. :rolleyes:
I can assure you as a professional traveler who gets a free USAToday under the hotel door for free nearly every morning that according to your statement that you have in fact never read the USAToday. It has to be one of the worse papers out there. The articles are childish and the reporting is second tier. It attempts to make up for poor content by printing fancy color pictures.

You can discount any statement that starts "I read in the USAToday..."



On the MTV documentary, "Nirvana 3 years...Forever" No Doubt, Fred Durst, and Good Charlotte (AMONG OTHERS) stated that Cobain was definitely an influence upon their music.
And we should listen to those bands why? In 10 years we'll be saying Good Charlotte who? Fred Durst? That man will kiss the butt of any artist out there especially if it will get him face time on TV. Did you see the list of artists that turned out for the Metallica tribute? Half those bands/artists probably never owned a Metallica CD before being asked to be on the show. How can they even consider Metallica an influence. MTV is NOT a good source of musical insight.

Kidhuman
04-07-2004, 07:42 PM
Well EP, Metallica kicked but in the 80's.Once they debuted onmTV with One, they went downhill. They had the popularity and fame on the underground level that half of todays popular "icons" will never have. Master of Puppets was a great album. Its too bad they soldout and went mainstream

Bosskman
04-07-2004, 07:59 PM
Yeah, metalica used to be cool but now they're crap, if they even still make music, which I don't care if they do or not. I hate how people like durst et. al. are always praising their "influences". It's so insincere.

Back to bad songs: I hate that Pink song from charlie's angels (crap movie). I like some of pink's other stuff but that song really makes my blood boil with murderous rage.

Another song I hate is that one from Moulin Rouge(the one that says "voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir"). I hate it mostly because of the way they pronounce the word "moulin" (which is french for windmill, something the hos that sing that song probably don't even know) They pronounce it "mulan" like that disney cartoon. THAT IS SO WRONG. I hate when english people try to speak french words and do it so wrong but think they're cool. I can't think of a word in english that has the same "in" sound as "moulin" but it aint the "in" sound like in "cousin" or "penecilin". There is no "n" sound at all. The funny thing is there are hundreds of french words that end in "in". It's so damn common it aint funny. Anybody who speaks french should understand my vehement hatred for this retarded song.

El Chuxter
04-07-2004, 08:02 PM
Another song I hate is that one from Moulin Rouge(the one that says "voulez-vous couchez avec moi ce soir").

"Lady Marmalade." I agree, that one sucks, though the original version from way back when was pretty kewl.

:rambo::beard:

arctangent
04-08-2004, 04:03 AM
Man, can we all just agree that Lemmy :beard: (that smile needs some warts) is greater than Kurt?

You will all agree with me eventually.

NOW you're talking. a living, breathing, walking bona fide legend :beard: ! i had the pleasure to bump into lemmy once at the bar of the marquee club sometime in the 80's (he was there because he was 'seeing' doro pesch from the group warlock). i only spoke to him for a minute (embarrassed fanspeak 'er, love motorhead, seen you live loads, real fan, etc...' but what a guy. worthy of much repect. and the first heavy metal record i ever bought was no sleep 'till hammersmith :crazed: !



"Nirvana 3 years...Forever" No Doubt, Fred Durst, and Good Charlotte (AMONG OTHERS) stated that Cobain was definitely an influence upon their music.

sweet jesus. kurt kobain would be spinning in his grave if he knew that he had influenced such rubbish. given the subject of this thread, i would just like to add - worst songs ever: anything by limpbizkit or good charlotte. it can't get much worse than that :dis: !

James Boba Fettfield
04-08-2004, 07:27 AM
it can't get much worse than that :dis: !

Check out Macho Man's album from last year and the recently released album from William Hung.

Bosskman
04-08-2004, 08:48 AM
William Hung. That name sounds like he should be a porn star. She Bang! She Bang! She Move! She Move!

TheDarthVader
04-08-2004, 04:24 PM
Just like I said...or I should have said, "Exhaust Port will find a way to discredit USA today." Just because you don't agree with the articles does not take away from the FACT that USA today is #1 in sales/circulation. If it is a crappy paper, I don't see how it is #1 in sales/circulation. Tell me your reasoning for that. Its like saying my dog isn't very smart because I can beat him 3 games out of 5 in chess. Or people who buy the #1 music album believe that music album is total crap. Nobody purchases a paper believing that it is crap. There must be just a few :rolleyes: people out there that like the USA Today. Maybe?
All of you wanted to know about the "influence" of Cobain so I gave some information. I never said Cobain would have liked those bands...that is irrelevant. Some stated that he had no influence (which is just ignorant).

stillakid
04-08-2004, 04:53 PM
Stillakid, I truly believe that article should suffice. USA Today is the #1 paper in America...but I guess you will find some way to discredit them. :rolleyes: And I never stated that Nirvana influenced everyone. There are just a great number of people/song writers/rockers who were influenced by Kurt.
On the MTV documentary, "Nirvana 3 years...Forever" No Doubt, Fred Durst, and Good Charlotte (AMONG OTHERS) stated that Cobain was definitely an influence upon their music. I could go on and on but I don't have the time to dig up the information right now. Go to google.com and type in the search box: Cobain Legacy or Cobain influence and weed through the articles and see what the media has to say about it. It is not hard to do. No hard feelings stillakid. :)

B.

:) Yeah, I will discredit that article because it does EXACTLY as I said. Not once did it list or describe how "influential" the band was musically but it certainly is chock full o' brown nosing the angst ridden teeny-boppers who felt Cobain's "genius" "spoke to them."

Let's talk about the "media" that you place so much credibility on. I'll even do your homework for you on this. Check it out:


A Supreme Court decision once referred to the various forms of communication as providing a “marketplace of ideas.” The phrase suggests a village at which humble artisans come to sell their products, and shrewd buyers are able to choose from a great array of wares.

Actually, communications have become highly monopolized, with small publications eking out a marginal existence. Only 4 percent of the cities in the United States have newspapers under more than one ownership.

Most large-circulation newspapers are owned by chains such as Gannet, Knight-Ridder, and Newhouse. If newspapers are not members of a chain, they carry syndicated columns and news services.

For most readers, the choice in the “marketplace of ideas” offered by the press is like the choice between McDonald’s and Burger King. A very few newspapers, such as The New York Times, provide more substantial fare – but they are written for an elite. One must know how to sift through them for significant facts and how to take into account their class bias and self-imposed restrictions.

The TV Monopoly

Television, from which 80 percent of all Americans are said to get most of their news, is even more monopolized. Controlling shares of NBC, CBS and ABC are owned by Chase Manhattan Bank, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Bank of New York, Bankers Trust, and Citibank – that is by the Rockefeller and Morgan empires.

Eighty percent of the “independent” stations are network affiliates and get most of their programs, except for the nightly local news, from the networks. The networks compete for “ratings,” which determine the amount of money they can get from sponsors. But like competing politicians, there is really little difference between the networks.

Television presents events as disconnected happenings. It then calls upon “experts” to comment on the chaotic flow of images. Viewers are made to feel powerless in their bewilderment and dependent upon the “expert,” who will tell them what to think and how to respond.

Although the viewer is often cynical about television – which one moment tells how his or her life will be altered by political events and another moment how it will be altered by buying the right deodorant – the authoritative voice of the “expert” has its unrecognized effect.

A Biased Vocabulary

The underlying assumption in news accounts and commentary are indicated in phrases as “our investments abroad” and “our markets.” But most Americans do not either own anything or sell anything abroad.

A few huge corporations are identified with the whole country. It is taken for granted that what is good for them is good for the country, something that is by no means obvious, especially when “our boys” are sent to fight for the “our interests.”

The bias of the media is revealed in the use of the word “terrorist” for the Irish Republican Army and the Palestine Liberation Organization. However, the violence of the IRA against the minority Protestant regime and the British occupying forces, and of the PLO against the settlers in the country from which the Palestinians were disposed is far exceeded by the violence of the Contras – who have systematically killed thousands of peasants, coffee-harvesters, and educational and health workers.

This bias is revealed too, in the habitual use of the word “surrogate” to define the relation of Cuba to the Soviet Union but not to define the relation of Honduras to the United States – which uses Honduras as a base for the Contras.

It is revealed, finally, in the habitual use of the word “satellites” for the Eastern European states but not for the Central American states. Romania, however, has a higher degree of independence than El Salvador has.

Despite the common assumptions that prevail, television stations make a great point of “fairness” and “balance.” What this means is that the commentators on their programs run the gamut of opinion from A to B. The moderator of a panel of commentators implicitly suggests that the truth lies somewhere between A and B. The other letters of the alphabet are disregarded.

Radical critics of the status quo, including those with numerous books and articles and impressive academic credentials, do not qualify as experts for television.

CBS and General Westmoreland

Ultra-conservatives often inveigh against the “liberal media.” They want to have as commentators only those of category A, not of category B. The difference between the ultra-conservatives and the media was indicated in the law suit by General Westmoreland – backed by these ultra-conservatives – against CBS.

The network had shown a documentary claiming that Westmoreland deliberately deceived Johnson about the strength of the Vietnamese during the war. Westmoreland’s lawyers were able to show how CBS, by editing interviews, was able to slant them. They exposed the network’s techniques not just on this occasion but in its general practice.

On the other hand, CBS was able to present such damaging evidence against Westmoreland that the doughty general had to beat a retreat and settle out of court for a CBS statement that praised him for his patriotism but did not retract the charge that he was a liar.

The issue, however, of how much Westmoreland deceived Johnson in the narrow interests of the military establishment is not of the first importance to the American people. What is really important to them is how they were deceived by Johnson aided by the military.

Johnson had been able to get Congress to pass virtually unanimously the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The government used the resolution to unconstitutionally carry on an undeclared war – on the pretext that North Vietnam had sought to torpedo an American warship.

There was no evidence, as sober historians now acknowledge, that North Vietnam had really taken this action so obviously opposed to its own interest. But neither Congress, the “free press,” nor the “liberal” TV commentators questioned the allegation then – or since that time.

Money Talks in Elections

Through the monopolized media and the entire political set-up, money talks in the election campaigns. Sometimes is whispers insinuatingly so that people are influenced subliminally without realizing it. Other times it bellows. Radical parties are like soap-box orators in a public park where a competing public address system drowns them out.

In addition to the free publicity the Republicans and Democratic parties get in the media, they buy 30-second TV “spots” that sell candidates the way commercials tell you that Fab is better than Tide or vice versa.

The same techniques – the hypnotic repetition of slogans and catch-words devoid of content, the killing of critical faculties through irrational appeals, the attractive packaging of the product – are used in selling politicians who have little difference to offer from each other.

This was not what Thomas Jefferson meant when he spoke of an informed citizenry being the basis of a healthy democracy.

Election campaigns are not political processes in which the masses of people actively participate. They are like wrestling matches which leave a lot of people indifferent but which a lot of others find exciting to watch – even though they suspect the grunts and grimaces are more acting than reality.

The culmination of the campaigns is the TV presidential “debates.” Here the object is not to inform and reason. It is to project an image of knowledge, self-assurance, coolness under stress, amiability, patriotism, and so forth.

Americans are Deceived

A Reagan official speaking not for attribution told a reporter, “You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people will hear it.” The next day, reporters document what are charitably described as misstatements, he added, “So what? Maybe 200 people read it, or 2000 or 20,000.”

Although Americans may be deceived by this lying and manipulation, they are also to one degree or another aware of it. This contributes to cynicism and a sense of powerlessness.

Many feel that it doesn’t make much difference if they cast a vote. The poor especially have this feeling. In recent years, 60 percent to 65 percent of those eligible do not vote in congressional and state elections, and 40 to 50 percent do not vote in presidential elections.

Nevertheless, although the freedom guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and the right to engage in electoral campaigns are vitiated by the economic and political power of the monopoly capitalists, they remain conquests that must be defended.

The roar of the mass media is mighty and the sense of powerlessness is paralyzing. But especially in times of social crisis, life itself impels people in the direction which socialists are pointing – the construction of a new and more genuine democratic order.

The above essay was written by Paul Siegel as part of a larger pamphlet, “Democracy in America: Fact and Fiction.” This pamphlet is available from Walnut Publishing and Socialist Action.


The point being, it doesn't matter to me if SPIN and/or ROLLING STONE etc. decide to proclaim somebody GREAT or INFLUENTIAL. Decisions like that make for good press and once a tasty rumor gets started, it doesn't take much for content hungry publications to Xerox off a chunk for themselves. So the bottom line is that I think it's hunky-dory that a band like Nirvana has fans. Diversity makes the world go 'round. But a proclamation that they were "influential" just because they happen to have a fanbase that subscription happy magazines looking for those dollars cater to is enough to elicit one of these: :rolleyes:

Exhaust Port
04-08-2004, 05:06 PM
Just because you don't agree with the articles does not take away from the FACT that USA today is #1 in sales/circulation. If it is a crappy paper, I don't see how it is #1 in sales/circulation. Tell me your reasoning for that.
Since the VW Beetle has had the most sales in the history of the automotive industry it is the single greatest car ever made. Since the DC-3 was the most produced commerical aircraft it is the greatest airplane any airline could ever hope for. More people speak Chinese than any other single language making it the most important language of our generation. Happy Birthday is the most sung song EVER making it's writer the greatest musical genius of all time.

Do you see any problem with the above statements? Numbers don't equal importance. The USAToday has the most sales/circulation which does not equat to it being the best source for information or even a good paper. It also can be said for music. The number of fans or album sales that an artist has does not have any bearing on their significance or musical quality.

Did you ever think why the USAToday paper has the biggest circulation? How many national papers or international papers are there? I can think of the Wall Street Journal and USAToday. If you sold a newspaper in every state as well as overseas how many would you end up having in circulation? A big reason they have so many out there is they have contracts with hotel chains to provide free editions to their guests and reduced costs. An average hotel would get a hundred or so copies a day so you can see how they quickly inflate their market share and circulation numbers.

Plus you don't see business professionals sitting down with the USAToday for market insight do you? The Wall Street Journal is by far the elite provider of outstanding news information. Plus if someone was in the music industry wouldn't you think they would look to Billboard or some other trade publication for information or news?

Would the best newspaper be caught up in this:

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2004/03/20/140752.php

There was an article regarding the airline industry last summer that was clearly based on bad information. I emailed the writer to give him new information so he can post a correction. Well he stated that he was not wrong because that is what he was told. Rather than research the facts he took them at face value and printed them anyway. It was more important to be published first than to be right in his eyes. Nice work there. :rolleyes:

About numbers for artists.... here's a list of the top selling albums of all time. Where's Nirvana on that list? Down at the 10 million album mark. Heck Pearl Jam is even above them. They apparently did more to spread the Seattle sound than Nirvana since they have more sales and there for can be seen as more influential in the 1990's.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_sold_albums.html

Perhaps you are right, numbers don't lie. Pearl Jam is much more influential than Nirvana. So are N'Sync, the Backstreet Boys, the Steve Miller Band, Britney Spears, Kenny G because they've had their music bought more than Nirvana ever has.

El Chuxter
04-08-2004, 05:51 PM
Just because you don't agree with the articles does not take away from the FACT that USA today is #1 in sales/circulation. If it is a crappy paper, I don't see how it is #1 in sales/circulation. Tell me your reasoning for that.

The #1 newspaper in Britain has naked ladies on page three every day.

USA Today is the daily newspaper with the highest circulation because it's, aside from the Wall Street Journal (which is terribly boring), the only nationwide daily newspaper.

Also, it's more entertainment than news. Which is the same reason the newspaper with the infamous "Page Three Girls" does so well.

JediTricks
04-08-2004, 05:52 PM
Just because you don't agree with the articles does not take away from the FACT that USA today is #1 in sales/circulation. If it is a crappy paper, I don't see how it is #1 in sales/circulation. Tell me your reasoning for that. Its like saying my dog isn't very smart because I can beat him 3 games out of 5 in chess. Or people who buy the #1 music album believe that music album is total crap. Nobody purchases a paper believing that it is crap. I think a more apt analogy here would be likening USA Today to McDonalds - just because McDonalds is the #1 prepared-food seller in the United States doesn't mean it's the most nutritious, only the best marketed and most quickly available, offering a tempting combination of fatty, salty (also sugary and reduced-nutrient) foods which appeals to the base instincts in the majority of us.


What was William Hung doing hosting Fox Box kids programming last weekend (and apparently this upcoming one as well)?

James Boba Fettfield
04-08-2004, 05:59 PM
I don't know, JT. Maybe he was there to inspire us, as his new album is already doing.

TheDarthVader
04-08-2004, 11:23 PM
Pearl Jam is much more influential than Nirvana. So are N'Sync, the Backstreet Boys, the Steve Miller Band, Britney Spears, Kenny G because they've had their music bought more than Nirvana ever has.

Maybe you're right. My point was that Nirvana had a lasting influence on music. Who did it influence? Who cares...they DID influence music. Are you telling me that you believe Nirvana had ZERO influence on music? ?????

Stillakid, thanks for those articles. They help me with my small side fascination with the whole JFK thing and how media is monopolized and could possibly be manipulated. Thanks bro! :)

Exhaust Port
04-09-2004, 12:38 AM
Are you telling me that you believe Nirvana had ZERO influence on music? ?????
When it comes to discussing influential bands or artists in the world of professional musicians then it becomes a matter of direct influence relations. For example Metallica has shown in their works that they were influenced by the British heavy metal bands of the late 70's and early 80's, bands like Diamond Head. Diamond Head has been an influential band. Here and there in Metallica's early works you'll hear indications of those influences in their choice of arrangement and musical shifts.

I'm sure Nirvana has influenced bands but unless it influenced the current run of artists than their importance has died off. To be honest, Nirvana's "poor me" or "down with mainstream" lyrics are a throw back to years of punk rock before them. Their simple chord progressions are also very punk. Their arrangements are pretty unique but it was very regional (Seattle) so there was a huge glut of other bands churning out the same Seattle sound.

Basically Nirvana was lucky and at the right time came up with a sound that became popular. Since then those simple chords are still found in current music as well as those anti-establishment lyrics, does that make Nirvana an influence? No. These current bands are still looking to the same bands that Nirvana took their influences from but some see it as though Nirvana is responsible. I would mark that up to a lack of musical history knowledge. Believing that Nirvana is responsible for the current use of 3 chord songs shows that fans don't realize the true origin.

So perhaps in some garage someone takes some inspiration from Nirvana but they'll soon realize that the simple sound that launched them into the spotlight was originated by those fellas in Seattle, but it harks from a time well before even Nirvana. Those artists are the true influence on music.

Dialogus
04-09-2004, 03:43 AM
Which song can be worse than Opus's "Life is Life" from the 80s?

I was 15 years old back then and almost everybody was listening to this crap when it came out. How could that stupid song be a major hit? I can still remember seeing the video and thinking: what the hell are these goofy-looking old timers doing in the charts with that s**t? It mesmerizes me to see how many people still wanna hear it in 2004. Makes my blood boils and throws murderous thoughts into my brain :dev:


La-laaaaa-la-la-la, Life is Life!

Kidhuman
04-09-2004, 06:53 AM
What about Right Said Fred, I'm to sexy for this thread. :beard:

mabudonicus
04-09-2004, 09:29 AM
Oh yeah, Dialogus, that song and "The safety dance" same basic effect, I think


And KH, what about "Rico Suave" man that video was hilarious

JediTricks
04-09-2004, 02:10 PM
I don't know, JT. Maybe he was there to inspire us, as his new album is already doing.
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!? - Helen Lovejoy

El Chuxter
04-09-2004, 02:34 PM
When I think of crap like William Hung's album, the vast injustices of the music industry are brought to light. How can so many genius-level (or at least good) musicians go undiscovered and unappreciated while this sort of garbage is released.

James Boba Fettfield
04-09-2004, 02:40 PM
They know American Idol fans will buy it. That show has spawned too many bad things. William Hung albums, American Idol movies and cameos, a Ryan Seacrest tv show, and Clay Aiken.

If I could be invisible I would break into Clay's house and give him a proper thrashing.

stillakid
04-09-2004, 05:49 PM
When I think of crap like William Hung's album, the vast injustices of the music industry are brought to light. How can so many genius-level (or at least good) musicians go undiscovered and unappreciated while this sort of garbage is released.


It's just novelty stuff. Like Weird Al or Doctor Demento. Maybe Hung knows it, maybe he doesn't, but he is essentially a circus act. Nobody is laughing with him. He's being thrown onstage much like the bearded lady or alligator-boy. He'll have his 15 minutes and then go away. I don't think that he's really taking anyone's spot in the record label queue.

Kidhuman
04-09-2004, 10:00 PM
Oh yeah, Dialogus, that song and "The safety dance" same basic effect, I think


And KH, what about "Rico Suave" man that video was hilarious

Actually I love saftey dance. I listen to it all the time.

But Gerardo and Rico Suave.............LMMFFAO..........to dayum funny. :beard: :crazed:


We can dance if you want to
We can leave your friends behind
Cause if friends dont dance
and if they dont dance
well they're no friend of mine


Iwill admit that the video with them playing leap frog was hilarious.

stillakid
04-09-2004, 11:16 PM
I forgot about this one:

Everybody have fun tonight...
Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

Bosskman
04-12-2004, 08:09 PM
Hey stilla, I totallt hear you on wang chung. Up here in canada in the mid eighties there was a stupid daily half-hour video show called "vidoe hits" (which was the only source of videos for many of us) IT's THEME SONG WAS THAT WANG CHUNG SONG!!!! Hideous.

Here's another of the worst of the worst: Who let the dogs out

Excuse me while I go vomit.

Kidhuman
04-12-2004, 08:11 PM
Breathe by Faith Hill. God that song was annoying, then again any song by any copuntry music artist will be bad.

Bosskman
04-12-2004, 08:41 PM
I hate most country too, especially the newer stuff. They try to pass it off as deep and soulful but it's raelly just as packaked as anything by justin timberlake, who I also revile.

stillakid
04-12-2004, 09:58 PM
Breathe by Faith Hill. God that song was annoying, then again any song by any copuntry music artist will be bad.


As a general rule, I shy away from country. But I have made an exception for smokin' hot country babes, including Faith. When I first saw her in person at an event, I didn't know who she was, but I gotta tell you that I nearly dropped the camera I was holding. Stunning doesn't quite cut it. Anyhow, I sought out her music and found that I actually liked most of it. Shania hotty Twain came next. Call me superficial but what the heck. :D

Kidhuman
04-13-2004, 06:59 AM
Looks dont mean anything when it comes tosinging. Faith Hill can sing and is talented, but they tend to overkill her music. She is more mainstream then country now. Shania Twain is another one whop I loathe. Her music is downright horrible. Just because you have looks, doesnt mean you are talented. Music aimed at young guys or girls is horrible.

stillakid
04-13-2004, 11:15 AM
Looks dont mean anything when it comes tosinging. Faith Hill can sing and is talented, but they tend to overkill her music. She is more mainstream then country now. Shania Twain is another one whop I loathe. Her music is downright horrible. Just because you have looks, doesnt mean you are talented. Music aimed at young guys or girls is horrible.


Nothing wrong with a pretty package to attract customers. It's part of nature. :D True what's outside isn't indicative of what's inside (necessarily), but just because somebody is beautiful doesn't mean that their product is automatically going to be bad. I rather like Twain's and Hill's music. I've even grown to enjoy couple of Britney's songs. Like any musician/entertainer, not everything someone does will be grade A, but I'm not about to write someone entirely because of just one or two "overplayed" songs.

By the way, when you say "they tend to overkill her music," what are you suggesting? That the music is bad because Clearchannel plays it too much on the airwaves? Granted, that kind of exposure would make a person sick of anything (that's one reason why I began to hate Pearl Jam...talk about overplayed crap), but airtime is a separate issue from quality.

Bosskman
04-13-2004, 12:31 PM
I like ta move it move it. I like ta move it move it. I like ta move it move it......

CaptainSolo1138
04-13-2004, 12:48 PM
I'm a Toby Keith fan (but I hate country music, go figure...), but I'm really getting sick of his "Patriotic" stuff. Yes, Toby. You're a proud American. Our Americans Soldier lit up the Taliban like the 4th of July. We get the freakin' point already!!

Kidhuman
04-13-2004, 05:37 PM
I rather like Twain's and Hill's music. I've even grown to enjoy couple of Britney's songs





AND YOU HATE NIRVANA........................................... .................. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :beard:

chrisc
04-13-2004, 05:37 PM
that is funny

stillakid
04-13-2004, 06:09 PM
AND YOU HATE NIRVANA........................................... .................. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :beard:

Well, that's because Nirvana blows. :D Even if the babes o' country did suck, which they don't, there'd still be come eye candy left over to look at. What did Grunge offer the world in terms of aesthetics? Droopy drawers and f'd up hair? Are chicks supposed to swoon over that "just got out of bed" look? Pulease. ;) I suppose we can thank Nirvana for reviving the 3 chord and spit thing which came oh so long before they were in diapers as well as the dirty clothes look, which also was copied from far better musicians who lived and died harder than Cobain-ites could ever dream of.

Kidhuman
04-13-2004, 09:27 PM
Dude, if your gonna compare Cobain and Britney in terms of talent, there is no way Britney would win. SHe cant sing, dance or do anything remotely close except get ogled at, and that got old when grunge died out.

CaptainSolo1138
04-13-2004, 11:15 PM
I never thought I'd see the day where Britney and Kurt were being compared. If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go watch hell freeze over.... :D

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-13-2004, 11:32 PM
Yeah in fact stilla, i hereby ban your arse from this thread until you actually listen to some decent music!! :crazed: hehehehehehehe just messin'...maybe ;) but still, how you say that you love Spears, but disregard Nirvana pretty much makes any music criticisms you might have null and void. I mean, i'm not a fan of Nirvana by any means, but to crack on Pearl Jam, Nirvana and the like and then come back to say you enjoy the pop crap on the airwaves today...just forces us to disregard any opinions you might have on music in general. :crazed:

stillakid
04-14-2004, 01:14 AM
Dude, if your gonna compare Cobain and Britney in terms of talent, there is no way Britney would win. SHe cant sing, dance or do anything remotely close except get ogled at, and that got old when grunge died out.


I don't believe I ever did compare the two of them directly. But if you wish to, I will say that Britney is far hotter than Kurt ever was, not that that was in question by anyone I'm sure. :D

In terms of musical "talent," sure, Britney is no Barbara Streisand (voice) or Joni Mitchell (music/lyrics), but for what she does do, she is entertaining. It beats the hell out of listening to an album's worth of complaint rock from a incessent whiner that isn't all too innovative to begin with. If we're talking about innovation, I'd say that they are easily on par with one another in terms of how much their individual styles were copied from previous musical and "image" styles. Neither have advanced the musical tapestry in any way. They both are simply rehashes of earlier times. Nirvana simply tapped into that generation of 20-something whiners who had no other "cause" to bi-tch about other then themselves. Britney tapped into the ugly teen girls who wish they were cute and into the older men who still harbor schoolgirl fantasies. It's all about marketing. They both found their niche and made :greedy: doing it. Hats off to the lot of 'em. May we all find someone to exploit and fool. It's the American way. :cool:

arctangent
04-14-2004, 05:05 AM
Even if the babes o' country did suck, which they don't, there'd still be come eye candy left over to look at.

so you would rather listen to crap music and look at the pretty girls? no wonder you are such a pop tart.

i would rather listen to music that moves me. i don't care what the people making it look like. and believe me, i like some music made by some pretty ugly people. but its rather good.



They both are simply rehashes of earlier times.

99% of all music feeds on what has gone before it. would you care to point out someone that isn't a rehash of earlier times.



which also was copied from far better musicians who lived and died harder than Cobain-ites could ever dream of.

again, i would love you to mention who. and besides, living and dying hard is not big or clever. just look at sid vicious :eek: !

James Boba Fettfield
04-14-2004, 10:44 AM
i like some music made by some pretty ugly people. but its rather good.

Ugly like Lemmy? :beard:

Exhaust Port
04-14-2004, 10:50 AM
so you would rather listen to crap music and look at the pretty girls? no wonder you are such a pop tart.

i would rather listen to music that moves me. i don't care what the people making it look like. and believe me, i like some music made by some pretty ugly people. but its rather good.
Everyone sells an image no matter what music they are playing. I've only ever attended industrial/metal shows but nearly every person there is dressed in some fashion that reflects the band or musical genre. It's not like by having long hair you are destined to listen to heavy metal. More likely, you are growing your hair long by being influenced by heavy metal and the band members. Growing up the girls had pictures of pretty boy bands on their walls while a lot of guys had pictures of metal bands on their walls. Sure they weren't pretty to look at but those aren't the type of looks that draw guys to bands, it's the image.

My musical taste includes a genre that has about .000001% of the musicians in it being female. There are a few female bands out there and even some that have gotten national recognition. I can assure you that if these girls looked as bad as the guys they wouldn't get one damn fan at any of their shows. Sure they are playing metal or industrial music but I don't want to be staring at some ugly women screaming on stage.

Even those "ugly guys" that you mention know the power and intrigue of beautiful women. Some of the best live performances I remember seeing had beautiful women as a part of the stage show. Even those band members knew we didn't want to stare at their ugly mugs for 2 hours.

Female artists like Britney or Faith Hill wouldn't sell millions of albums if the music they made wasn't interesting to the fans. I can't see buying a CD only because there is one picture of a pretty woman on the sleave. I would buy the album because of the music in it. A majority of the exposure a female artist gets is off the radio in my opinion. Listening to that you don't know anything about how good or bad they look.

stillakid
04-14-2004, 11:09 AM
so you would rather listen to crap music and look at the pretty girls? no wonder you are such a pop tart.

Uh, no. That's not what I said. You're obviously trying to smear me and my opinions by taking things out of context. Typical.


i would rather listen to music that moves me. i don't care what the people making it look like. and believe me, i like some music made by some pretty ugly people. but its rather good.
That's true of most people. But the prevailing attitude seems to be coming from "music snobs" who simply write off anything that is "pop" as not being serious music. They (you?) are the same people who think that "serious rock" (like Nirvana :rolleyes: ) is the only "real" music out there.

This isn't anything new of course. The film High Fidelty dealt with this same kind of attitude with the character Barry, played by Jack Black. And speaking of movies, this "art form" has it's own version of you guys. Some "movie snobs" write off all "Hollywood" movies as garbage and the only films worth seeing are tear-jerker indie faire. By that token, Star Wars is wildly "Hollywood" and you would be derided by film-snobs for being a fan of something so obviously superficial.

I find both attitudes laughable. No, I'm not about to listen to "crappola" music just to stare at a hot girl. I never said that so it would be nice to see an apology for the inference. What I said was that given the choice, I'd rather look at a hot girl than look at Kurt "can't find my way to the shower" Cobain. That was a separate comment from the music itself. In terms of the music, Nirvana and Pearl Jam didn't "move me," so I'm not about to subject myself to that crappola no matter what Rolling Stone tells me I'm missing. As far as Britney's music goes, I've found I can only enjoy a couple of her songs. I tried to watch that recent HBO concert she did, but I became annoyed about 2 minutes into it for a variety of reasons, one of which was the song she started with.





99% of all music feeds on what has gone before it. would you care to point out someone that isn't a rehash of earlier times.
No. Once again I never claimed that anyone current was offering something new. Are you a lawyer or spin doctor? ;) Anyhow, I'm interested in that 1% you left over and just how you arrived at that percentage. That research study I trust is pretty current. I didn't know that the industry did that kind of thing. So which musicians fall into that 1%?





again, i would love you to mention who. and besides, living and dying hard is not big or clever. just look at sid vicious :eek: ! Who did Nirvana rip off? God, throw a dart. Whoever picked up a guitar and crushed out that "wall of noise," courtesy of Phil Spector. Bad Company, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, The Sex Pistols, The Doors, The Ramones, The Who, Sonic Youth, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue... If only Nirvana had half the talent of those other bands who led the way.

As far as that "living hard" issue goes, I suppose we could talk all day and never come to a conclusion as to whether "better" art comes from that type of living. One could toss out John Tesh and compare him to someone like Sid Vicious and debate which one has the better music and will have more influence in the long run. But that's like comparing apples and oranges. Tesh vs. Kenny G. would be more fair. Vicious vs. Bon Jovi would be an interesting study.

Bosskman
04-14-2004, 11:26 AM
Sorry to be another one to disagree with you stillakid, but I hate Streisand (voice), and Joni Michell (lyrics). They are always forced down my throat, but are, IMO, highly over-rated, as much as the beatles and elvis. Sorry but that's the way I sees it. I understand some of what you're saying about Britney being "greater" than nirvana, but to listen to music just because the person making it looks good is ridiculous. That has NOTHING to do with the music, but EVERYTHING to do with the music industry. Most people get confused between the two but they are not the same.

stillakid
04-14-2004, 11:59 AM
Sorry to be another one to disagree with you stillakid, but I hate Streisand (voice), and Joni Michell (lyrics). They are always forced down my throat, but are, IMO, highly over-rated, as much as the beatles and elvis. Sorry but that's the way I sees it. I understand some of what you're saying about Britney being "greater" than nirvana, but to listen to music just because the person making it looks good is ridiculous. That has NOTHING to do with the music, but EVERYTHING to do with the music industry. Most people get confused between the two but they are not the same.

No sweat on my examples. Just fill in the blanks with your own favorites (voice and lyrics). The point still holds firm. :) For instance, one of my favorite voices has always been Crystal Gale, but I could never stand her music enough to listen to it. A shame. Christina Augulara and Celine Dion fall into that category too. Great voices, but the music isn't good enough for me to want to listen for long.

I also never said I listen to the music just because the person looks good. sigh. You people simply don't read and comprehend before jumping to conclusions. A pretty package, no matter what it is for (a candy bar, a car, or a musician) is a great way to draw attention initially to the product. Just as Exhaust Port mentioned, you'd be hard pressed to successfully sell a band of awesome female musicians if they were big fat pimply and ugly. But also as EP said, every "band" or musician subjects themselves to a "look," and Nirvana was no different. While Britney picked that flirty schoolgirl thing, Nirvana put on their own costumes of dirty ragged clothes to sell themselves to their chosen market. It's all just packaging to sell a product. Don't let a "real" band fool you into thinking that they just show up on stage in whatever they threw on that day.

And thank you for again making my distinction between "music" and "look." Some folks have difficulty separating those things, particularly when trying to attack others and make (faulty) points. :)

chrisc
04-14-2004, 01:23 PM
stilakid I guess this is the thread where everyone is hitting on you

kool-aid killer
04-14-2004, 04:16 PM
I actually think Stillakid is doing an awesome job of proving that Nirvana and Cobain arent/werent "groundbreaking and influential." I have yet to read a post that disproves his thought over the subject.

Bosskman
04-14-2004, 04:55 PM
I agree that Nirvana isn't "groudbreaking" but it's not something that can be proved. It's all a matter of opinion. Sure a lot of people SAY they were influnced by Nirvana but they could be just paying lip service. All this talk about "leading the way" and whatnot is absurd. I don't consider any "musician" to be a leader, or a hero, just because he/she/it made a bunch of songs that a lot of people like to listen to. Most of it has more to do with marketing than talent. Face it, inside most of the most "credible" musicians in the "industry" beats the heart of someone who'
s out for wealth and fame. Sure, they say it's "about the music" but that's something easy to say when you live in a mansion. Even the "artists" who are still struggling do it, not for some love of music, but for money, or evental money. The better they are at cultivating some sort of bohemian like image, the more "credibility" it gives them and the more they can say, if they are finally "successful", that they "did their time on the streets". Call me cynical but it's true in 99.999% of cases.

chrisc
04-14-2004, 05:12 PM
I actually think Stillakid is doing an awesome job of proving that Nirvana and Cobain arent/werent "groundbreaking and influential." I have yet to read a post that disproves his thought over the subject.

I haven't gone throught the whole thread yet but it seems like it from what I have seen so far.

mabudonicus
04-14-2004, 08:31 PM
"the heat is on" that song sucks :D

Stilla is doing a fine job

Nirvana didn't break any ground, musically. None. Zip. Zero. This could be proven, if only by a set of samples (carefully selected, I'd do it for ya even) from the list Stilla provided

That's like saying that Pat Boone "broke ground" recording "In a Metal Mood"

Ever hear that?? I own it.... Sure, it was something that hadn't been done before (former crooner/gospel dude sings the other"devil's music" , heavy metal, more like hard rock)

Was he "breaking ground"?? Maybe....

Far moreso than any angst-rock band... the multi-piece arrangements were actually musically pretty impressive... boone's singing is hilarious, big and bland and tuneless, like Leonard Nimoy

Anyways, just to wrap this up, people singing about how angry they are about the way things are??? already done, pre-1900

3-chord, lots of minor keys.... already taken care of..

Bleach blond, or maybe natural (don't want this to become an issue) also done before


Drug-addled lifestyle, timeline filled with mystery... Jim morrison at the very least :beard:

So, which "ground" exactly was "broken"???


He's saying what we all think


If that's the only actual broken ground, the "sign of the times" value of it, then you could musically equate Nirvana with the Hula Hoop







Oh, and Lemmy is ugly... and he's AWESOME

Kidhuman
04-14-2004, 09:36 PM
Lemmy is about as ugly as Angus Young...............and thats ugly :beard:

BTW Mabs, awesome 'tar

arctangent
04-15-2004, 05:24 AM
Ugly like Lemmy? :beard:

yeah! its a bomber its a bomber its a bomber yeah-hey hey :crazed:

arctangent
04-15-2004, 06:00 AM
Uh, no. That's not what I said. You're obviously trying to smear me and my opinions by taking things out of context. Typical.

finally had that sense of humour bypass, i see lol .



That's true of most people. But the prevailing attitude seems to be coming from "music snobs" who simply write off anything that is "pop" as not being serious music. They (you?) are the same people who think that "serious rock" (like Nirvana :rolleyes: ) is the only "real" music out there.

wow, i’m a musical snob. hurrah! although as a mentioned before i really only think nirvana are ok. but "serious rock"? guess i will have to stop liking primus now :dis: .



This isn't anything new of course. The film High Fidelty dealt with this same kind of attitude with the character Barry, played by Jack Black. And speaking of movies, this "art form" has it's own version of you guys. Some "movie snobs" write off all "Hollywood" movies as garbage and the only films worth seeing are tear-jerker indie faire. By that token, Star Wars is wildly "Hollywood" and you would be derided by film-snobs for being a fan of something so obviously superficial.

I find both attitudes laughable. No, I'm not about to listen to "crappola" music just to stare at a hot girl. I never said that so it would be nice to see an apology for the inference. What I said was that given the choice, I'd rather look at a hot girl than look at Kurt "can't find my way to the shower" Cobain. That was a separate comment from the music itself. In terms of the music, Nirvana and Pearl Jam didn't "move me," so I'm not about to subject myself to that crappola no matter what Rolling Stone tells me I'm missing. As far as Britney's music goes, I've found I can only enjoy a couple of her songs. I tried to watch that recent HBO concert she did, but I became annoyed about 2 minutes into it for a variety of reasons, one of which was the song she started with.

No. Once again I never claimed that anyone current was offering something new. Are you a lawyer or spin doctor? ;) Anyhow, I'm interested in that 1% you left over and just how you arrived at that percentage. That research study I trust is pretty current. I didn't know that the industry did that kind of thing. So which musicians fall into that 1%?

“Neither have advanced the musical tapestry in any way. They both are simply rehashes of earlier times.” bit of a redundant point then really wasn’t it. why bother to point out that kurt and brittney are not doing anything new if no one is doing anything new. by implication accusing them of not doing anything new you must believe that someone is. all i wanted was for you to tell me who.

a re you a lawyer or spin doctor? that’s hitting below the belt :eek: !

and guess what? that 1%. i made it up. isn’t that terrible. no research, nothing. just a figure plucked from the air. could be 2% who knows? as for musicians fitting into that cattergory of groups who don’t seem to have been influenced by anyone else, off the top of my head, how about joy division, kraftwerk, einsturzende neubaten and neurosis.

and i’ll apologise when hell freezes over. or when you stop being so supercilious ;) .



Who did Nirvana rip off? God, throw a dart. Whoever picked up a guitar and crushed out that "wall of noise," courtesy of Phil Spector. Bad Company, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, The Sex Pistols, The Doors, The Ramones, The Who, Sonic Youth, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue... If only Nirvana had half the talent of those other bands who led the way.

all those bands range from ok to very good with the exception of the who - the only band on that list who could be called truly great but i see you have found your sense of humour again - the sex pistols? ha! don’t get me wrong because i probably like the sex pistols much more than i like nirvana but to say they were talented musicians? when they sacked glen matlock they got rid of the only one of them who could actually play properly and replaced him with a down and out scumbag drug addict who didn’t know one end of a bass guitar from the other and who couldn’t play for toffee. good for the image though not so hot for the life expectancy :dead:

El Chuxter
04-15-2004, 01:13 PM
That's like saying that Pat Boone "broke ground" recording "In a Metal Mood"

Ever hear that?? I own it.... Sure, it was something that hadn't been done before (former crooner/gospel dude sings the other"devil's music" , heavy metal, more like hard rock)

Ha! I thought I was the only one. :D That album is awesome! Completely weird, a bit disturbing, and better taken as a parody than anything else, but awesome!

2-1B
04-15-2004, 02:13 PM
Lemmy is a sexy beast.

Boone's In a Metal Mood is an awesome disc.

stillakid
04-16-2004, 01:38 AM
all those bands range from ok to very good with the exception of the who - the only band on that list who could be called truly great but i see you have found your sense of humour again - the sex pistols? ha! don’t get me wrong because i probably like the sex pistols much more than i like nirvana but to say they were talented musicians? when they sacked glen matlock they got rid of the only one of them who could actually play properly and replaced him with a down and out scumbag drug addict who didn’t know one end of a bass guitar from the other and who couldn’t play for toffee. good for the image though not so hot for the life expectancy :dead:

Funny, the passage you quote from me has the topic of "who did Nirvana rip off" yet your response above has the topic of "which of my examples are great?" That's like answering the question, "How much is 2+2?" with the answer, "Wankle Rotary Engine." Like I alluded to before, it's quite difficult to have a meaningful discussion when the topics bounce around faster than Yoda on a hotplate. I wasn't listing out bands who I considered to be great. I was listing bands who had a sound that Nirvana potentially ripped off (were influenced by). Is it possible to stay on the same page from post to post? Or is that asking too much?

And no, I have no sense of humor when my words are taken out of context in an attempt to make me look stupid or wrong. You can disagree with something someone says as long as you're quoting and/or paraphrasing correctly and fairly within context. I'll happily debate/discuss and even cave in as long as the other side is competently responding accurately and fairly. :)

But regardless of any of that, I'm still waiting to see a list from anyone about all the ways that Nirvana has changed the face of music since they graced us with their presence. I mean, I've read the reviews and seen the articles and books created in honor of their existence, but none really say anything beyond "Nirvana has been a great influence." Over what? Or is this a question that can only be answered in 20 years from now? And it that is so, then how can they already be declared an influence if the effect of them won't be felt (or recognized) for a long long time? :confused:


Back to the topic, I wouldn't dare call this a "worst song ever," but the sticatto beat of "Addicted to Love" has always managed to rub me the wrong way. I hate to say that because I like Palmer in general.

Exhaust Port
04-16-2004, 01:47 AM
Especially his videos. :D

arctangent
04-16-2004, 05:06 AM
Funny, the passage you quote from me has the topic of "who did Nirvana rip off" yet your response above has the topic of "which of my examples are great?" That's like answering the question, "How much is 2+2?" with the answer, "Wankle Rotary Engine." Like I alluded to before, it's quite difficult to have a meaningful discussion when the topics bounce around faster than Yoda on a hotplate. I wasn't listing out bands who I considered to be great. I was listing bands who had a sound that Nirvana potentially ripped off (were influenced by). Is it possible to stay on the same page from post to post? Or is that asking too much?

are you are being supercilious again? i never asked any question about who nirvana’s influences were and yet you chose to answer it. i actually didn’t realise you were listing nirvana’s influences because i find it very hard to hear any influence by either bon jovi or motley crüe in nirvana’s music. and you show your ignorance of the subject by missing out kobain’s two biggest influences - the pixies and the melvins.


And no, I have no sense of humor when my words are taken out of context in an attempt to make me look stupid or wrong. You can disagree with something someone says as long as you're quoting and/or paraphrasing correctly and fairly within context. I'll happily debate/discuss and even cave in as long as the other side is competently responding accurately and fairly.:)

ohh, take the pictures down, stillakids climbing the walls. that paragraph is a bit rich coming from someone who twists, turns and ignores what other people post to further his own argument and make them look stupid. and hey, whats wrong with looking stupid? i look stupid at least 60% of the time. the other 40% i’m asleep :zzz: !


But regardless of any of that, I'm still waiting to see a list from anyone about all the ways that Nirvana has changed the face of music since they graced us with their presence. I mean, I've read the reviews and seen the articles and books created in honor of their existence, but none really say anything beyond "Nirvana has been a great influence." Over what? Or is this a question that can only be answered in 20 years from now? And it that is so, then how can they already be declared an influence if the effect of them won't be felt (or recognized) for a long long time? :confused:

i don’t know that nirvana have been that influential. they were in the right place at the right time. perhaps they have had an influence on the wave of ‘garage’ bands that seem to be around at the moment, ie the white stripes, the datsuns, etc. perhaps kurt’s influence is similar to that of punk bands like the pistols in that if a guy from somewhere as obscure as seattle with a modicum of talent can sell squillions of records then perhaps i might have a go.



Back to the topic, I wouldn't dare call this a "worst song ever," but the sticatto beat of "Addicted to Love" has always managed to rub me the wrong way. I hate to say that because I like Palmer in general.

but hey, hot chicks in the video :kiss: !

Exhaust Port
04-16-2004, 11:00 AM
i don’t know that nirvana have been that influential. they were in the right place at the right time.
That's just about it right there. Seattle was the flavor of the month and Nirvana was one of the biggest exports. Not the biggest as Pearl Jam's Ten sold more.


perhaps they have had an influence on the wave of ‘garage’ bands that seem to be around at the moment, ie the white stripes, the datsuns, etc.
These garage bands are just the next flavor of the month. Just because this surge in popularity for a common musical sound (garage) doesn't mean that the previous bands who were apart of the last popular common musical sound (Seattle) are responsible. Before the Seattle sound there was the Hair-Metal sound, then the Corporate-Rock sound, then the Arena-Rock era, etc.....

To be honest, the current garage-band sound has more to do with the British exports of the 1960-70's than anything close to Nirvana and the Seattle bands.



perhaps kurt’s influence is similar to that of punk bands like the pistols in that if a guy from somewhere as obscure as seattle with a modicum of talent can sell squillions of records then perhaps i might have a go.
It has nothing to do with how much someone sells.

arctangent
04-16-2004, 11:15 AM
These garage bands are just the next flavor of the month. Just because this surge in popularity for a common musical sound (garage) doesn't mean that the previous bands who were apart of the last popular common musical sound (Seattle) are responsible. Before the Seattle sound there was the Hair-Metal sound, then the Corporate-Rock sound, then the Arena-Rock era, etc.....

this is true. in another 12-18 months the music biz will have moved on to another flavour. everything goes round in circles. thrash seems to be coming back around with the nwoahm. luckily there has yet to be a revival of the 80's new romantic movement - which has just reminded me of a particularly bad and annoying song, 'the look of love' by abc. ugghh!



To be honest, the current garage-band sound has more to do with the British exports of the 1960-70's than anything close to Nirvana and the Seattle bands.

being british, i should be able to think of someone, but nothing comes to mind. its friday afternoon and my brain has finally given up the ghost! who would you say from britain influenced the current crop of 'garage' bands i still think there is a bit of a seattle influence going on there. but maybe more mudhoney than nirvana.



It has nothing to do with how much someone sells.

but if nirvana had only ever sold a couple of thousand records, very few would have ever heard of them and they wouldn't have influenced anyone to possibly pick up a guitar and give it a go.

mrhat
04-16-2004, 07:12 PM
Well on the subject of worst songs, there are a few--

That damned Quizno's song with the dead hampsters

ANYTHING BY KELLY OSBOURNE

kool-aid killer
04-16-2004, 09:33 PM
"Hey Ya" by Andre 3000 has just made the Killers list of songs hes tired of. Does anybody here like that song? If so why? I dont see why it turned into a hit, sure a few of the girls in the video are hot, but the lyrics dont seem to say anything special. Or am i just a step behind in "getting" it???

Kidhuman
04-16-2004, 09:42 PM
I think Hey Ya is one of the most ridiculous songs I have ever heard. I can not stand it. Almost as irritating as Macerena and Who let The DOgs out.

2-1B
04-17-2004, 03:43 AM
I love Hey Ya. Very fun song.

stillakid
04-17-2004, 10:05 AM
but if nirvana had only ever sold a couple of thousand records, very few would have ever heard of them and they wouldn't have influenced anyone to possibly pick up a guitar and give it a go.

So before Nirvana, nobody was picking up a guitar? That's your reasoning for thinking that Nirvana has had influence? If that's true, and we're basing "influence" on how many CDs were sold, then by that token the music of Britney Spears should be altering the way nearly every new band creates music for the next hundred years. Or does this logic only apply to "real" bands?


And, of course I'll object vehemently to your continued smear campaign. I neither ignore the statements of others nor twist them to suit my needs. All too frequently, people eventually shoot their own logic in the foot given enough time. I just happen to be around to point it out. For an example of this, see Exhaust Port's and my rebuttals to your arguments above. :D

kool-aid killer
04-17-2004, 05:46 PM
I love Hey Ya. Very fun song.

Hows it fun? Im just curious, at first i didnt mind it until every station started playing it. Whenever i listen to the lyrics nothing special seems to jump out at me. I get the part about love not lasting forever but i dont think that revelation is worth all the praise the song seems to get. Help me understand Cesear, your my only hope. :crazed:

2-1B
04-18-2004, 04:50 AM
If you can make the claim that "every station started playing it" then the main problem is that you listen to WAY too much radio, my friend.

Radio should only be sampled in small doses. :crazed:

Bel-Cam Jos
04-18-2004, 10:33 AM
Well! Is there a song titled "You Can Go to H.E.L.L. With Your Opinions" by Talk Radio? My goodness; the rancor and spite in these posts!

Here's my list, which hopefully doesn't create such firestorms of hate:

"I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred. Ugh. 'Nuff said.

"Just a Friend" by Biz Markie. Yes, I know that "Biz is a genius." Apparently. But I personally just find it annoying and very poorly sung.

"R@pe Me" by Nirvana. Sure, maybe it's trying to say some deep message, but that's not subtle at all (sure, that probably was the message Curt wanted). Bad song.

"Criminal" by Fiona Apple. Whoa-oh what I need is a good sledge hammer, 'cause I'm feelin' like I'm gonna hurl. And her attitude makes the song worse.

"I Love You" by Vanilla Ice. Let me just say this: Robert Van Winkle (or whatever the heck his name is) wrote a love song. Tried to write a love song. Attempted to sing it. Produced and released a love a song. Wha-?!? Huh? :confused:

And perhaps the Worst Song Ever -
"You Are So Beautiful" by Joe Cocker. Lyrically: simple and heartfelt. Musically: too-oo-oo crap-ee-ee-ee. :eek:

Let's make this thread what it was meant to be: a place to bash stupid artists! Not fellow SSGers!
:) :) lol lol (Happy, happy! Joy, joy! )

stillakid
04-18-2004, 11:33 AM
Believe it or not, I just heard Hanson play MMMBop Unplugged on the TODAY Show this morning. I didn't realize that it was possible.

They also seem to have dumped the girl in the band and picked up another guy. :D

Kidhuman
04-18-2004, 11:36 AM
What uis this world coming to when MMBop is played unplugged? Someone should unplug hanson.

BCJ, Biz-Markie is hilarious. Just about every song he did is bad, but the humor in it is what makes it worth listening too.

Exhaust Port
04-18-2004, 12:08 PM
Just when you think a band is gone forever they make a come back.

kool-aid killer
04-18-2004, 12:32 PM
If you can make the claim that "every station started playing it" then the main problem is that you listen to WAY too much radio, my friend.

Radio should only be sampled in small doses. :crazed:

Of the seven stations on my cars preset i am certain of four that have played the song and/or continue to do so. Im not too certain on the fifth but do imagine it being on their playlist. The only two that dont are a Spanish language channel and the oldies channel. I really need a CD player in my car.

Just a Friend is hilarious. Biz has no singing abilities but the song is just funny when you listen to it. Im going to have to disagree with you there Bel-Cam Jos. Ohhhh babieeeee yoouuuu....

Kidhuman
04-18-2004, 06:12 PM
You forgot about Pickin Boogers and his rendition of benny and the Jets withthe Beastie Boys. Top Notch Bizmarkie right there.

arctangent
04-19-2004, 05:53 AM
So before Nirvana, nobody was picking up a guitar? That's your reasoning for thinking that Nirvana has had influence? If that's true, and we're basing "influence" on how many CDs were sold, then by that token the music of Britney Spears should be altering the way nearly every new band creates music for the next hundred years. Or does this logic only apply to "real" bands?

did i say that no one picked up a guitar before nirvana came along? sorry, thats a prime example of you twisting words to suit your argument. could you please point out to me where i actually used those words? no thought not.countless groups down the years have made various groups of people want to be in a band. nirvana were just one in a long line of them.

influence is not merely based on cd sales but you seem to be missing my point, so let me explain it again. how many cd's are sold equates to how many people will hear a group. the more people who hear a group, the more people are likely be influenced by them. see, quite simple really. for example, the sex pistols sold lots of records and perhaps influenced many people whereas sham 69, the cockney rejects or stiff little fingers sold fewer records and therefore had the opportunity to influence far fewer people.

if the beatles had not got the breaks they had, never got a recording contract and never made it big would so many people talk about them as one of the most influential groups of all time? doubt it.

as for britney, i am sure she is influencing countless teens to look, dress and behave a certain way and i am sure she will influence many girls to want to become a pop singer although as a pop singer her shelf life is likely to be fairly limited, so in five years time young teen girls will have doubtless have a new pop songstress to influence them.

and i really am not trying to smear you stilla, its just when you come out with such ridiculous like 'Britney Spears should be altering the way nearly every new band creates music for the next hundred years' you are setting yourself up. why stretch logic to its very limits like that? at least exhaust port's reasoning was sound and he doesn't feel the need to make such obviously stupid statements to prove a point.

arctangent
04-19-2004, 06:03 AM
"I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred. Ugh. 'Nuff said.

hey, just another crap english group we thought we would share with the world. luckily, they vanished fairly quickly!

and now, as i have mentioned before, we have given you all the darkness. you lucky, lucky people :ermm: !

Exhaust Port
04-19-2004, 10:36 AM
How about "Barbie" by Aqua? It might be called something different...

or "The Sign" by that other techno-pop band from a few years ago.

Kidhuman
04-19-2004, 10:41 AM
or "The Sign" by Ace of Base

arctangent
04-19-2004, 11:02 AM
How about "Barbie" by Aqua? It might be called something different...

do you mean the one that goes:

I´m a barbie girl, in a barbie world
Life in plastic, it´s fantastic.
you can brush my hair, undress me everywhere.
Imagination, that is your creation.

come on barbie, lets go party!

that was called barbie girl and definately rubbish. but very very catchy. the sort of song that gets stuck in your head and you end up singing it all day :crazed:

James Boba Fettfield
04-19-2004, 11:41 AM
That Mr. Jones song from Counting Crows has been in my head a lot lately. I can't seem to get enough of that song...it's not bad, though, so ignore that I even mentioned it in here.

There's a GWAR song called Saddam A Go-Go that really gets on my nerves every time I hear it. The music video makes up for it, though.

Exhaust Port
04-19-2004, 01:45 PM
that was called barbie girl and definately rubbish. but very very catchy. the sort of song that gets stuck in your head and you end up singing it all day :crazed:
That's the one. :eek:

Kidhuman
04-19-2004, 05:41 PM
Jump Jump by Kriss Kross

El Chuxter
04-19-2004, 05:44 PM
Oh, come on! Daddy Mack will make you jump, jump, and don't you dare deny it! :p

Bosskman
04-19-2004, 05:49 PM
I remember a bar in Woodstock NB played barbie girl 9 TIMES IN A ROW!

Oh yeah, here's some more rubbish: constant craving by kd lang.

kool-aid killer
04-19-2004, 09:27 PM
Or what about "Return of the Mack" by Mark Morrison? And to think i used to like that song when i was a little booger nosed kid. Now whenever i hear it i cringe and picture the mini me version of myself bouncing up and down to its beat. Please dont laugh at me. :nerv:

Bosskman
04-19-2004, 09:38 PM
Oh my God kool-aid killer, I just had that song in my head before I read your last post - and I don't think I've actually heard it for years. WEIRD.

arctangent
04-20-2004, 04:26 AM
That's the one. :eek:

i feel very embarrassed that i actually knew the words to the chorus of barbie girl :cry: !


Or what about "Return of the Mack" by Mark Morrison?

that's another one like barbie girl that lodges in your head and drives you bonkers :crazed:


And to think i used to like that song when i was a little booger nosed kid. Now whenever i hear it i cringe and picture the mini me version of myself bouncing up and down to its beat. Please dont laugh at me.

HA! HA! HA! lol lol lol . er, sorry.

Bosskman
04-20-2004, 06:32 PM
I can't believe I forgot about these (I remembered them after reading the can't stand post):

Anything by evanecence, especially the first load of crap they came out with

that maroon five song. I shut the radio off for at least 5 minutes whenever I even hear of it's coming.

AVRIL LAVINE I hate all her stupid songs. Just plain crap. The thing that really grates on me is that, as a canadian, many people actually think that it is my patriotic duty to like garbage like her, our lady peace, and edwin and the pressure. THEY ALL SUCK

COTTON EYE JOE. I actually thought about posting that one a few times before but when it came to it I forgot. Here's a side note on this feculent, urine soaked piece of rubbish: Years ago when the offending song was continually played everywhere, I convinced my sister, who is about 20 months younger than me, that Cotton Eye Joe was an old cotton picker from the south who had an affair with a woman. When her husband found out, he was so mad he ripped out Joe's eyes and replaced them with wads of cotton. I told her that if she ever woke up in the night with the song in her head that she better keep her eyes shut or cotton eye joe would appear to her and take her eyes for his own. I was a nasty ba$tard wasn't I?

Bosskman
04-29-2004, 04:48 PM
Nobody has been here for a while but I couldn't let this thread die without mentioning Millivanilli. What a load of crap they were. Those guy's real voices must have been terrible indeed if they had to PRETEND to sound like THAT!Forsome unknown reason I've had "blame it on the rain" in my head since this morning and it's driving me insane.

Kidhuman
04-29-2004, 05:41 PM
You like them thats why. :beard:


They were pretty bad. Lip-syncing and all.

Bosskman
05-22-2004, 09:22 AM
I have a new number 1. I don't know the name of the stupid song but it gets stuck in my head and I get so angry I have to lay down so the veins in my head don't burst. I goes something like this: "roses always smell like (something)" I hate it I HATE IT IIIIIII HAAAAAAAATE IIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bosskman
05-24-2004, 06:10 PM
I just had to reply because it's the 200th post in this thread. Oh yeah, I also hate that stupid new janet jackson song.

El Chuxter
05-24-2004, 06:49 PM
I have a new number 1. I don't know the name of the stupid song but it gets stuck in my head and I get so angry I have to lay down so the veins in my head don't burst. I goes something like this: "roses always smell like (something)" I hate it I HATE IT IIIIIII HAAAAAAAATE IIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, I thought it was illegal in all 50 states to hate the Outkasts. :D

Bosskman
05-25-2004, 04:48 PM
That may be so, but I live in Canada.