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CaptainSolo1138
04-14-2004, 10:49 PM
First off, in keeping with the "no politics" rule, I want to say that this is for a Later Western Civilization class and nothing more. I've heard that the awards ceremony form the end of ANH mirrors the German propaganda film "Triumph of the Wills". I'm been looking online for video or picture comparisons but can't seem to find any. If someone can help point me in the right direction or provide a link I would be greatly appreciative. My instructor had never heard of this parellel and seemed interested.

Kidhuman
04-14-2004, 11:08 PM
Best I could find for you.......


Click the :beard: (http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/filmnotes/triumph.html)

CaptainSolo1138
04-14-2004, 11:35 PM
Best I could find for you.......


Click the :beard: (http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/filmnotes/triumph.html)
Thanks KH. What I'm really looking for is side-by-side comparisons. There are supposedly several shots that are done exactly the same. I've found only one set of shots and they're less than convincing.

Rocketboy
04-15-2004, 12:11 AM
SVSU has a copy of "Triumph of the Will" on DVD, but I don't know if it can be checked out.
Also, in the Magic of Myth book, they show many of the WWII and Star Wars comparisons. Doesn't look like there's any "Triump of the Will" in it, but it's a start.

I know I have the comparison pics somewhere. I'll keep lookin'.

JediTricks
04-15-2004, 10:44 PM
"Triumph of the Wills", wasn't that one of the original names Lucas came up for Star Wars? ;)

I believe Triumph of the Will was recently released on a new DVD, so you probably would have better luck tracking down that DVD and comparing it yourself. I hadn't heard this statement about the ANH ending ceremony, but I believe the overall look of it came directly from Ralph McQuarrie's artwork based on general concepts from Lucas. If you mean photographically, specific angles and shots, that'd probably be Gilbert Taylor or perhaps Lucas.


On a forums-related issue, politics can be discussed when germane to discussion of Star Wars.

CaptainSolo1138
04-15-2004, 11:37 PM
On a forums-related issue, politics can be discussed when germane to discussion of Star Wars.
Just trying to cover my butt for when the inevitable "What are you looking for Nazi stuff for?" question came up. :rolleyes:

Here's the thing: We will be watching "Triumph of the Wills" on Monday and what I was looking for were several references to put on to a disk for the instructor. I was REALLY hoping to find a video comparison, but obviously the correlation isn't strong enough or nobody has done it yet. I thought us Star Wars geeks were supposed to have huge amounts of time on our hands to do such things!! :D

JediTricks
04-15-2004, 11:42 PM
I think that's because "Triumph of the Will" is a little more rare than "The 7th Voyage of Sinbad". ;) I just checked IMDB and though they're a little flakey about such things, they DO list TotW as a movie Star Wars referenced, so I suggest you bone up on the scene in ANH just before seeing TotW.

CaptainSolo1138
04-16-2004, 12:06 AM
You're an infinite source of wisdom, JT. How will any of us ever repay you? :p

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
04-17-2004, 12:57 AM
I saw "Triumph of the Will" back in freshman year of college in late '98. DOn't remember every scene and detail about the movie but the only things I remember are the opening scenes in where a plane is flown through the clouds, and my memory may be fuzzy, but I think it contains the nazi hierarchy who are about to speak at some auditiorium filled with Germans. The plane lands and one by one the speakers make their speeches about their outlook on things, their general direction and goals.

I don't recall any specific scenes that mirrored the medal scene at the end of ANH, but there may of well been. I think it's an unfounded rumor though. The movie was directed by a woman, Leni Riefenstal, who just passed away a year or two ago.

Let us know what you see on Monday.

Rocketboy
04-17-2004, 01:19 AM
I know you've already found this CaptianSolo, but it's mainly for the others to see.
http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/pix/triumph.jpg

For those interested, there are more on Star Wars inspirations here:
http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/index.html

I thought the Star Wars Insider mentioned this "Triumph of the Wills" connection a while back, but I can't find it.
At least I think it was the Insider...

JediTricks
04-17-2004, 04:40 AM
I know you've already found this CaptianSolo, but it's mainly for the others to see.
http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/pix/triumph.jpg

For those interested, there are more on Star Wars inspirations here:
http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/index.html

I thought the Star Wars Insider mentioned this "Triumph of the Wills" connection a while back, but I can't find it.
At least I think it was the Insider...
Thanks for the link, I skimmed the site, some of it seems a little stretching, but there's a lot of interesting info there. As for this specific shot, it's similar, but not identical, I dunno if I'm convinced there.

Kidhuman
04-17-2004, 10:29 AM
I am with you JT, not fully convinced. You could say then that TTT had the same idea when Saruman was talking to his Orcs out side of Isengard. When yopu have an army of soldiers in a movie and there is a scene like the medalscene from ANH, there is no ther way to potray the army. WOuld you rather the men be scattered about? Every movie that has a graduating class of Soldiers(SSSTripes, Rennasance Man,) the soldiers are pretty much in the same positions.

CaptainSolo1138
04-18-2004, 03:27 PM
Pre-film viewing conclusions:
*Star Wars has many WWII "references" (costume design, morals)
*The award sequence from ANH may have been inspired by TotW, but based on what I've seen, can't be called a replication.

After I see the film tomorrow I'll post to let everyone know what's really going on (because I'm sure all of you put you're lives on hold for this :D )

Thanks to Rocketboy for lending me his copy of "Star Wars:The Magic of the Myth" for further reference. ("It's mine now. I keep it!" :p )

JediTricks
04-18-2004, 08:30 PM
KH, I think the similarity isn't the lining up of the troops, but the wide aisle between the troops with the 3 "heroes" of the film heading from the back of the room where the camera is to the front where the dais is, as shot from a crane that stays in the back of the room and watches as they walk away from camera.


CS1138, I look forward to your report. :cool:

Kidhuman
04-18-2004, 08:56 PM
I see what your saying. Its allgood. I have never seen nor heard of TotW until CS1138 posted about this. I was just going on the pics

CaptainSolo1138
04-19-2004, 02:41 PM
So...class is over and I've reached a final conclusion: ANH was taken from TotW. There are several shots where I was like, "holy s**t!". That's how dead on Lucas mimed them. As a matter of fact, Heinrich Himmler (head of the Waffen S.S.) and Han Solo are both standing in the same spot and both are the only ones among the three wearing black. It was pretty convincing.

The instructor actually asked me to bring in ANH Wednesday so she could present how WWII is still influencing many things in our culture today. Hello extra credit! :D

Again, thanks to everybody for their help and interest. You guys are awesome!

Rocketboy
04-19-2004, 06:08 PM
Again, thanks to everybody for their help and interest. You guys are awesome! You're welcome and I know!
(Did the book help at all?)

JediTricks
04-19-2004, 11:25 PM
Wow, crazy. So what were the other shots, were they in other scenes or more of the same from this scene? Did TotW have robots too? ;)

CaptainSolo1138
04-19-2004, 11:34 PM
Wow, crazy. So what were the other shots, were they in other scenes or more of the same from this scene? Did TotW have robots too? ;)
All of the shots were from a Nazi funeral about 3/4 of the way through. As for the robots, what a stupid question. Of course their were robots! :p

CaptainSolo1138
04-19-2004, 11:37 PM
You're welcome and I know!
(Did the book help at all?)
I meant to say everbody except you. Sorry for the mixup.

"The hot history teacher" was quite intrigued by all of the references to WWII in SW, from the Empire resembeling the wermacht to Vader's helmet.

Thanks. Now I owe you one.

Rocketboy
04-20-2004, 12:06 PM
"The hot history teacher" was quite intrigued by all of the references to WWII in SW, from the Empire resembeling the werhacht to Vader's helmet.

Thanks. Now I owe you one.Do you thing Lucas was inspired only by the cinematography of Triump of the Will for the end of A New Hope?
It is pretty obvious that the Empire and much of their look is derived from the Nazis, but not the good guys - say it ain't so!

That's two you owe me, junior.

CaptainSolo1138
04-20-2004, 01:12 PM
Do you thing Lucas was inspired only by the cinematography of Triump of the Will for the end of A New Hope?

I would have to say so. The circumstances are completly different and, other than appearance, have no binding.

On the other hand, maybe Han was overseeing the "extermination" of all wookies and just kept one around as a servent. :crazed:

Rocketboy
05-08-2004, 12:19 AM
http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=8076&highlight=favorite

Found this related topic while doing a search, in case anyone is interested.

plasticfetish
05-08-2004, 11:49 PM
Very interesting topic. It's well known that Lucas used WW2 imagery and industrial design for inspiration, but I'd never heard of this before.

Here's a composite that I've made. This is pretty much the idea I suppose?