PDA

View Full Version : Do you believe in. . . ?



El Chuxter
06-07-2004, 04:44 PM
Okay, to make everyone rest easy, this is not a religious discussion and I don't want to get this thread shut down.

I'm curious as to what everyone here thinks about certain possibilities, legends, etc, the existence of which can be considered up for debate. So, do you believe in each of the following or not? (I'll throw in my thoughts on each a bit later, when I have enough time to do so.)

Ghosts?

Alien life?

Parallel universes?

Spontaneous human combustion?

ESP/telepathy?

Telekinesis?

The Loch Ness Monster?

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?

Or throw out your own. . . .

JediTricks
06-07-2004, 05:13 PM
Ghosts? - no

Alien life? - likely, but not these little green guys who supposedly visit us all the time.

Parallel universes? - possible

Spontaneous human combustion? - absolutely not

ESP/telepathy? - maybe, but I don't put much stock in it.

Telekinesis? - ditto

The Loch Ness Monster? - no, my grandpa worked as an engineer on a sonar system that scanned the loch and found a large cluster of seaslugs or something was what was likely what folks were seeing.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? - nope, especially with how many people are looking for him these days and have come up with jack squat in the way of REAL evidence (that is, evidence you couldn't concot.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? - isn't this the same guy as previous, only in white?


*and adding my own*
Past Life Regression - ever notice how almost everybody is someone famous in a past life? No, I don't buy this one at all.

Crop Circles - bunk, somebody has too much free time on their hands, and I don't mean Kang & Kodos. ;)

Time Travel - I believe it is possible

stillakid
06-07-2004, 05:19 PM
Ghosts? Uh, maybe... under extreme circumstances. I think that all life exists as "energy strings" (String Theory) on the most basic level. My theory also goes into the mechanics of "consciousness" which I won't get into here, but essentially if the "conscious" part of a person's "energy" doesn't dissipate after the body dies, then yeah, it can remain cohesive enough for a living being to actually see it.

Alien life? Of course. Whether any of it has actually been to Earth is an entirely different question.

Parallel universes? Not as such, but I think that perhaps the idea of multiple dimensions as predicted by String Theory may be on the right path.

Spontaneous human combustion? Um, no.

ESP/telepathy? Tough call. I don't think it exists as a strong superpower as some people would have us believe, but I know that two very "connected" people can "sense" one another across significant distances. It's not ESP or mind reading, but the feeling can be quite strong and intense.

Telekinesis? Maybe, but probably not.

The Loch Ness Monster? No.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? No.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? No.

stillakid
06-07-2004, 05:28 PM
*and adding my own*
Past Life Regression - ever notice how almost everybody is someone famous in a past life? No, I don't buy this one at all.

Crop Circles - bunk, somebody has too much free time on their hands, and I don't mean Kang & Kodos. ;)

Time Travel - I believe it is possible

Past Life: See my answer concerning energy strings above. This could happen maybe. See, the idea is that if a person's personality when they are alive is "strong" enough (whatever that means...I don't have all the rules figured out yet), then when the body dies, that part of them which is the consciousness (the whole body is made up of energy strings including the consciousness) somehow has the ability to remain relatively cohesive (it sticks together). A weak personality will dissipate quickly and that consciousness energy will join up with other energy strings.

Then, due to unknown mechanics, "living" material (trees, bugs, people, etc) somehow attract this consciousness energy. The more "brain" an organism has, the more consciousness energy it attracts. So a human ultimately has more consciousness than a flee.

Anyhow, as far as the past life thing goes, it could be possible using this theory to illustrate that some very strong personalities from the past remained cohesive enough in death to be attracted almost completely into another living organism which is large enough to house it all. I'm sure there are no studies, but of course we always only hear about the famous people who are reincarnated. If you have vague memories about being some nobody from the middle ages, how could you express that in terms that didn't make you seem loony?

Anyhow, it's all a theory. Who the hell knows.



Crop Circles: Um, no.

Time Travel: For people? Maybe one day, but not now. Time is relative anyway, so are you talking about a Delorean kind of zipping through time or more of an Einstein Relativity thing?

sith_killer_99
06-07-2004, 07:03 PM
I believe...

Ghosts-Are dead.

Alien life-There is no inteligent life anywhere in the universe.

Parallel universes-Run in direct opposition to our own.

Spontaneous human combustion-Is a heated debate.

ESP/telepathy-ESP would go great with ESPN.

Telekinesis-Is nothing like Dianetics

The Loch Ness Monster-Is really a Sea Cow.

Bigfoot-Is one hairy Sasquatch.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman-Is Bigfoots' hairy albino cousin.

Or throw out your own. . . .

I believe that "Big Brother is real".

I believe Oswald acted alone.

I believe Conspiracy Theories are like trash TV and Tabloid Newspapers.

B'Omarr Monkey
06-07-2004, 07:41 PM
Ghosts? No, and I actually got to see one at the beginning of the year. I could even explain it away after.

Alien life? Yes, but none that have come all the way here to buzz some poor farmer while he tries to take a blurry picture of the spaceship. I certainly don't believe in alien abductions.

Parallel universes? possibly.

Spontaneous human combustion? No.

ESP/telepathy? Not likely.

Telekinesis? Not likely.

The Loch Ness Monster? I give the following three skeptical plausibility, even while the admission to perpetrating Nessie and Sasquatch as hoaxes has appeared.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-07-2004, 07:47 PM
Ghosts?- Yes, i've seen several up close and personal.

Alien life?- Yup, seen some of those UFO's too.

Parallel universes?- Sure, why not? we can't possibly be the only beings around.

Spontaneous human combustion?- Eh, no.

ESP/telepathy?- Yes

Telekinesis?- Yeah

The Loch Ness Monster?- Maybe. I've seen some pics and some look legit and others like crap.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?- of course!

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?- yeah, i do. Though,i don't want to meet this fellow. :D

Rocketboy
06-07-2004, 08:10 PM
Ghosts? - Yep. I've even had an experience or two.

Alien life? - Definitely. Are the coming to Earth? Not a chance.

Parallel universes? - It's possible, but unlikely.

Spontaneous human combustion? - Nope.

ESP/telepathy? - Maybe to a very minor degree (IE Deju Vu).

Telekinesis? - Nope. Simple tricks and nonsense.

The Loch Ness Monster? - Nope.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? - Again, it possible, but unlikely. People discover new species of life all the time. Granted, they are typically bugs or smalller.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? - See above.

Past Life Regression - Yes. My cousin who was probably 4 or so and wasn't old enough to know about such things, had clear memories of being a fighter pilot and being shot down. It was creepy.

Crop Circles - No...but "Signs" was awesome!

Time Travel - No, but in theory, it's supposed to be possible. If man ever accomplishes it, why doesn't he stop by and say "Hi?"

Miracles - YES!

InsaneJediGirl
06-07-2004, 08:22 PM
Ghosts?-Yes.I've had too many experiences to say otherwise

Alien life?-Yep.Seen enough for that too

Parallel universes?-Possible.Who knows?

Spontaneous human combustion?-No.

ESP/telepathy?-To a point,yes

Telekinesis?-Nope

The Loch Ness Monster?-Maybe

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?-Yes.Too many similar sightings throughout history

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?-Same as above

Crop Circles-Perhaps.I would say the simpler ones are "other worldly" though.

Past Life -Yes

Time Travel -Not at all

LusiferSam
06-07-2004, 08:43 PM
Ghosts: No

Alien life: Yes, but the earth is not being visited any.

Parallel universes: What do you by this?

Spontaneous human combustion: No

ESP/telepathy: I'd like to, but seems unlikely.

Telekinesis: Same

The Loch Ness Monster: No

Sasquatch/Bigfoot: Again I'd like to, but seems unlikely.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman: More likely then Sasquatch, but again seems unlikely.

JediTricks write-ins
Past Life Regression: No

Crop Circles: While the phenomena does exist and is well documented, so its real. I assume JediTricks means the UFO made circles, so no.

Time Travel: We are all traveling in time (forward). But traveling back in time, no well. I think its unphysical. I'm a bit of stickler for the second of Thermodynamics.

JediTricks
06-07-2004, 09:39 PM
Oh, I thought of another:

Anti-Gravity Plating - No, and I was very shocked to learn how many people not only thought it COULD exist right now, but thought it was already in use in the space program.

Atlantis - not the high-tech supercity of yesteryear. It may have been a nice place to live, but that's as far as I go with that one.


Rocketboy, you yanking our chain about the cousin who was a fighter pilot in a past life, or is your cousin the kid that was recently on TV about how he was a pilot in WWII and was shot down and stuff?


LSam, on the crop circles, it doesn't have to be UFOs, anything beyond "a prank" is where I say no.

sith_killer_99
06-07-2004, 09:48 PM
Hmmm....

Time travel, now there is a good one. The answer is yes....and no.

Einstein was able to show that gravity affects time. He showed that someone closer to a strong source of gravity would travel forward in time at a different rate than someone farther from that source. So, while it may not yet be possible to travel forward and backward in time, it is possible for two people to exist in time moving at different rates. In other words, one would age faster or slower than the other, based on the observers point of view.

As for traveling forward and backward in time? Who can say for sure? Can someone explain to me just what time is?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-07-2004, 10:07 PM
Ah, good thinkin', JT: Atlantis!! I started a report back during my freshmen theory course in college on Atlantis and i truly believe this place exists. There have been so many ancient underground ruins found, especially off the coast of Asia and whatnot that just scream that this could be a possibility. I really hope that one day somebody uncovers that whole mystery as it would be amazing!

Rocketboy
06-07-2004, 10:14 PM
Rocketboy, you yanking our chain about the cousin who was a fighter pilot in a past life, or is your cousin the kid that was recently on TV about how he was a pilot in WWII and was shot down and stuff?I'm dead serious. He would talk about flying and shooting, then crashing to the ground where he died.

James Boba Fettfield
06-07-2004, 10:21 PM
I've got a lot of theories...'bout some real crazy stuff. :sur: Stuff about The Great Old Ones and the moon landing hoax. No, I believe the moon landing was real, but the Great Old Ones...maybe not so much.

E. T.'s and the like, I believe it could be out there. The universe is a big place expanding all the time, I'd hate to believe that our life occurring is just a one time thing.

Time travel: Well, there's been a lot of interesting experiments related to this. I don't think people are ever going to be doing any H. G. Wells type of time traveling, though.

Bigfoot and the like, well...no. There's definitely some cool things left to find under the sea (oh under the sea, under the sea). Cthulhu, anyone? Now that would be a find!

As for ghosts: I do believe in them, and I'd love to have an encounter like so many people claim to have had. Again, I believe this one just because it sounds too good to be true and I'm always on the prowl to have some experiences. Probably end up not being real, but I'm believing for now.

Tonysmo
06-07-2004, 11:42 PM
Ghosts.. heck yeah. Ive never had an encounter, but I think they are out there. ( Id love to have an encounter.. just once. )

Alien life? yeah, there has to be.. place is just to damn big for us to be the only ones around..

Spontaneous human combustion?- noone believes in this? but the pictures are on the internet?!?!

midiclorians.. NO

The Loch Ness Monster: I wish - but too much time has passed.. and with todays techology, they should have found him by now.. so no..

Sasquatch/Bigfoot - this one could still be up in the air for me. I still think there is alot of woodlands that have yet to be explored.. you never know. again, too much time has passed. he should have been found by now.

ESP/telepathy?- Yes - if it werent real, would we hear stories of police departments using people who have these powers? they seem to work some of the time.

Telekinesis?- sure, why not. some people have the ability to expand their minds, being able to tap into the parts of the brains that most cant.

zombies. I have a shotgun. there is always hope.

Dr Zoltar
06-07-2004, 11:43 PM
Interesting topic. Here are my beliefs:

Ghosts? Yes -- Sort of. I believe ghosts are more like images that are somehow recorded by the environment then played back. Interesting theory I read at one time. To me, ghosts and spirits are two different things.

Alien life? Yes

Parallel universes? No

Spontaneous human combustion? Yes

ESP/telepathy? Yes

Telekinesis? No

The Loch Ness Monster? No

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? Yes

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? Yes

Time Travel (Backwards)? No -- though I'd love for it to be true, I believe this to be impossible.

Anti-Gravity Plating? No

Atlantis? Yes, but not with spaceships and what not.


And how about these:

Remote Viewing? Yes

Astral Projection? No

That 42 is the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything? Yes!

2-1B
06-08-2004, 02:28 AM
Santa Claus ? yes.

Bosskman
06-08-2004, 06:02 AM
Ghosts: Yes

Aliens: Maybe but they've not been here

Parallel Universe: No

Spontaneous human combustion: possibly

ESP: probably but most of what we hear about is a hoax

Telekinesis: see above in ESP

LNM: possible but unlikely (at least in loch ness)

Sasquatch/Yeti: probably do exist, there are a lot of wild places and things that are intelligent enough to avoid humans if they wish to.

Time travel: impossible, if it wasn't then we'd have seen people from the "future" and it would be common knowledge. Time itself as we know it is pretty much an illusion anyways.

Past life: no, at least not for humans (I have theories on this one but we can't talk about them on these boards)

Anti-grav plates: maybe some day but not for a long while

Atlantis: Yes, but not like the new age alien spaceship master-race theories. I actually think that it is highly probable that humans have been on this earth a LOT longer than some would have us believe.

remote viewing (see my answer for ESP)

scruffziller
06-08-2004, 06:36 AM
Ghosts?-Yes but they aren't what we think they are.

Alien life?- Yes but they aren't what we think they are.

Parallel universes?-No

Spontaneous human combustion?-Unsure

ESP/telepathy?-Brains give off brain waves that can be detected by medical equipment, why not other brains can pick up other brain waves.

Telekinesis?-Unsure

The Loch Ness Monster?-Unsure

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?-Unsure

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?-Unsure

Time Travel-Maybe, it will definately not be like we see in the movies at all

Reincarnation-60% yes.



Time Travel - No, but in theory, it's supposed to be possible. If man ever accomplishes it, why doesn't he stop by and say "Hi?"
Temporal Prime Directive.;)

mabudonicus
06-08-2004, 08:31 AM
Ghosts? closest to Doc Zoltar on this, I believe that "ghosts" are just eddies of the "life force" which powers the whole universe (I guess that is sorta what stilla was saying, too, I just don't tend to use the same vocabulary in this respect)

Alien life? same as many, don't imagine anything extraterrestrial has been here for a long time, at least, maybe not at all, but I know something's gotta be out there

Parallel universes? too complicated, but short answer- if they're anything like the DC ones, you can keep em (in this reality, Batman is evil and the Joker is the Mayor :crazed: )

Spontaneous human combustion? NEXT

ESP/telepathy? I am a telepath and have a sorta slack esp, so yes for sure (and no I'm not joking, or high ;))

Telekinesis? Nope, but this one is sorta open, if I actually saw it it would change everything, and it would not totally surprise me (it would floor me and so on, but I would feel more of an "Ah HAH" kinda thing)

The Loch Ness Monster? prolly not, but I tend to believe what JBF said, that there are likely many things "down there", most of which I believe should remain unseen ;)

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? not really, though if there was something that was kinda humanoid and furry out there that hasn't been observed due to it's natural cunning it wouldn't surprise me... most of the current evidence looks like bunk.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? Samsquanches, same as Yetis


Past life regression- no way, one may be able to get random impressions from the life-force, but human existence as I understand it is a one-time thing



Midicloriants?? (LMAO smo, good one) what are you talking about, Willis??


The Force- (surprised I'm the first one to hit this) most assuredly, more than anything I believe in this, not necessarily in all the ways it's shown in SW, mind (refer to the list so far) but it most definitely exists


Time travel... just cos I use the word groovy in conversation doesn't mean I'm actually from the 60's ........ but no, from all I understand it is sorta ludicrous

Infinity- hard as it is to even think about, I believe that all of this "size of the universe" and "age of the universe" stuff is pure hooey, I mean, it was positively 4-something-billion years old, up til last year, when it got changed to "absolutely, totally certainly" 12-something billion..... I'm not biting ;)


Good topic Chux, fun stuff *waits for "your mama"*

evenflow
06-08-2004, 08:37 AM
Ghosts?

Alien life?

Parallel universes?

Spontaneous human combustion?

ESP/telepathy?

Telekinesis?

The Loch Ness Monster?

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?

I BELIEVE IN IT ALL, WHY NOT?

JEDIpartner
06-08-2004, 09:33 AM
Ghosts? - Yes

Alien life? - Yes

Parallel universes? - No

Spontaneous human combustion? - Yes

ESP/telepathy? - Yes

Telekinesis? - Possibly

The Loch Ness Monster? - No

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? - Yes

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? - Yes (and they are reportedly the same colour as a North American sasquatch... not white.)

Kidhuman
06-08-2004, 10:23 AM
Ghosts? - no

Alien life? no

Parallel universes? no

Spontaneous human combustion? yes

ESP/telepathy? no

Telekinesis? no

The Loch Ness Monster? yes

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? yes

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? yes

Or throw out your own. . . .


I also believe i can fly.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-08-2004, 11:30 AM
I also believe i can fly.

lol you believe you can soar? do you see yourself running through that open door? :p

I don't about you guys, but........

I believe in a thing called love
Just listen to the rhythm of my heart
There's a chance we could make it now
We'll be rocking 'til the sun goes down
I believe in a thing called love
Ooh!
:D

Darth Jax
06-08-2004, 11:51 AM
i believe the children are the future.

i believe there are far too many idiots alive on this planet.

as for the other things mentioned so far, nope don't believe in em.

most importantly, i believe it's time for another adult beverage. drink em if you got em.

bigbarada
06-08-2004, 12:26 PM
Ghosts: spirits, angels and demons I believe in; but not ghosts.

Aliens: not outside the realm of possibility, even the Bible makes reference that human life can exist on other planets. And if you count spiritual life (the aforementioned angels and demons) then most definitely.

Parallel universes: yes, Heaven and Hell could be considered examples of this

Spontaneous human combustion: undecided, chemically it might be possible but I would have to actually see it happen to really believe it and I hope that never happens anytime soon.

ESP/telepathy/telekinesis: why not? There are lots of areas of our brains that we never really use, who knows what they're capable of.

Loch Ness Monster: might be a remnant of the dinosaurs. I believe in the Young Universe theory, that the entire universe is less than 10,000 years old (it's the most logical from the scientific evidence I've read); so I don't think the dinosaurs died off all that long ago.

Bigfoot/Abonimable Snowman: while it would be nice to think that Wookies actually exist, I think this is a hoax. Maybe some tall guy suffering from that genetic disease, the one that makes you grow hair over every inch of your body, was spotted walking around the forest one day and all this nonsense got started.

Past life regression: total nonsense

Crop Circles: undecided, my first reaction would be that it is a hoax, but reports of the crops actually being altered on a genetic level kind of complicate the issue.

Remote viewing: while I have actually experienced this myself, it's never been for anything important and the premonitions I saw have been rarely correct, so chalk it up to a dream and a bizarre coincidence.

Bosskman
06-08-2004, 12:55 PM
Hey Big B, I think a lot of the stuff mentioned above is demonic in origin. (maybe I've said too much)

Pendo
06-08-2004, 01:01 PM
Before falling into the job I am in now, I was actually training to become a Paranormal Investigator (lol, what a career :rolleyes: ) and I still regularly research into the Paranormal and also had many of my own experiences. Many of the different phenomena I believe in, however there are some I do not:

Ghosts: Yup, had my own experiences as well :sur:!

Alien life: Of course, billions and billions of planets, we're not the only one's alive!

Parallel universes: No strong evidence of this, but I would like to believe. The scientific theories seem possible.

Spontaneous human combustion: Not actually paranormal anymore, it's been scientifically proven (something to do with gasses in the body, don't think the same thing as on South Park though).

ESP/telepathy: Yes, I have spoken to many mediums and psychics and they have told me stuff that is so precise and accurate that they couldn't have gotten the information from any subconscious message I gave them.

Telekinesis: Actually a form of ESP, so kinda. But kinda not, lol :rolleyes:. I'd accept it if I had some proof.

The Loch Ness Monster: Nope

Sasquatch/Bigfoot: I used to, but the only reason why was because of that video footage, but after many years the person who made it has admitted tit was a fake.

Yeti/ Abominable Snowman? Nope

Past Life Regression: Yes, but this ties in with Life After Death and your beliefs of what happens in an afterlife.

Crop Circles: No chance!

Time Travel: In one form, yes. One theory, which I kinda believe, is that UFOs are not actually Alien Space craft, but time machines from the future. That would would explain why these "grey aliens" are so similar to us and what we could potentially evolve into, and how their spacecraft is able to travel millions of lightyears (or not).
I also believe in one way that time travel is possible if you break he speed of light. If you travel faster than light, is it possible to arrive somewhere before you've actually left?

Anti-Gravity Plating: I think there will be methods of anti-gravity in the future, but not this.

Atlantis: It wasn't an underwater city, or high technilogical city or whatever, but I do believe there was a city called Atlantis that was lost in a flood. A Satellite recently picked up something which is currently being investigated that matches Plato's description of Atlantis, somewhere in Spain I think.

Remote Viewing: Yes

Astral Projection: A form of outer-body-experience so I will say yes.

a few others for ya...

Street Lamp Interfearence: (Yes it actually is a recorded phenomena, when you walk past a street lamp it switches on/off). Not really, seen it happen but nothing that couldn't be explained scientifically.

Orbs: Yes

Rods: I believe in tem, but not sure what they are. I think I'll go with the "insect" theory, it's the most plauseable one :).

UFOs Yes and seen them!

:)

PENDO!

bigbarada
06-08-2004, 01:36 PM
I forgot to mention my beliefs on Time Travel. I've been reading a theory from one scientist, Dr. Gerald Schroeder, and his theory on "Time Dilation." Most of it is based on Einstein's Law of Relativity. In other words, the passage of time is relative to our position in the universe. Forces like speed and gravity will affect time, the higher the gravity, the faster time moves; the higher the speed, the slower time moves (or is it the other way around?). So there are areas of our universe where billions of years could be passing, but only a few days are passing for us. Which time is correct? Both. This has been proven scientifically many times (one year on the Sun is like 67 seconds shorter than a year on the Earth, because of the Sun's stronger gravity).

This could also mean that the billions of years needed for the creation of the universe, according to science, and the six days of creation, according to the Bible, could be the same period of time.

Add to this the fact that the universe is expanding, thus events from the past are being "stretched," they appear as if they took more time than they actually did. So if we were to be able to travel back in time, it's entirely possible that the world around us would begin to slow down more and more the further we travel back, until eventually time would seem to stop. Conversely, events would probably speed up faster and faster as we traveled further into the future. This would probably cause some major complications and thus, no, I think the universe was designed to forever prevent any form of time travel.

El Chuxter
06-08-2004, 02:31 PM
Man, I should've posted my thoughts yesterday. There's a lot of additions. I'm going from Pendo's list, which I think is pretty complete.

Ghosts: Likely, but I'm not sure they'd be in the forms folks supposedly see them in, nor would they want to bug us. However, I lived in a house where (of the previous occupants) the husband died and the wife went nuts, there were too many odd happenings that I'm not fully willing to rule it out.

Alien life:Very likely. Almost a given. Intelligent life that has nothing better to do than come and bug us? Not nearly as likely, but possible.

Parallel universes: Yes, and at the center of them all stands the Dark Tower. :D

But seriously, I think if the universe is infinite and yet has boundaries, there have to be others. I'm not a physicist, so I can't explain it better than that.

Interesting point you raised about Heaven and Hell, bigb. I've always thought of them as outside what we consider reality, but never quite made the connection between that and parallel universes.

Spontaneous human combustion: No, but it's kinda funny.

ESP/telepathy: Yes, but as to whether we could control it, I'm not so sure.

Telekinesis: See ESP, though I think this would be far less common.

The Loch Ness Monster: No, but as far as a large reptile, fish, or even dinosaur meeting one of the many descriptions for Nessie in the deep blue sea, somewhat likely.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot: A very remote possibility. Very, very remote. On the one hand, we should've seen indisputable evidence by now. On the other, there's a lot of woods in Washington and western Canada.

But it's far more likely it's sightings of bears, just doing their job to make this world a better place.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman: Far more likely than Bigfoot, since it's a more remote area and far less explored. I believe there's more (circumstancial) evidence as well.

Past Life Regression: No.

Crop Circles: Yes. Those two English guys admitted to making them.

Time Travel: Doubtful. I think going back in time would cause the entire universe to explode. (Okay, that's a simplification.)

Anti-Gravity Plating: No.

Atlantis: The stories are based on something, most likely ruins found in Crete (?).

Remote Viewing: No. Remote controls are created to not be viewed.

Astral Projection: Don't project my. . . :eek:

Street Lamp Interfearence: Happens to my dad all the time.

Orbs: ???

Rods: Yes. The one whose last name is Stewart is a fine singer.

UFOs: See Alien Life.

bigbarada
06-08-2004, 04:24 PM
Hey Big B, I think a lot of the stuff mentioned above is demonic in origin. (maybe I've said too much)

Shhhh! Don't say stuff like that, some fragile idiot might get all offended and stuff. Plus some overzealous moderator will close this thread in a heartbeat if we keep talking about "religion.":rolleyes:



:D

Turbowars
06-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Ghosts? Yes, because I get the feeling someone is watching me, but that just might be my paranoia.

Alien life? I think it is arrogant to say there isn't. We have no idea how big the Universe really is.

Parallel universes? Never really thought about it. Maybe.

Spontaneous human combustion? Seen shows on it, so maybe.

ESP/telepathy? Yes, and I have it.

Telekinesis? Maybe

The Loch Ness Monster? No, not really. I think people just really wont to believe they saw something.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? Same as above.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? "

God? Depends on which one

JON9000
06-08-2004, 11:19 PM
I forgot to mention my beliefs on Time Travel. I've been reading a theory from one scientist, Dr. Gerald Schroeder, and his theory on "Time Dilation." Most of it is based on Einstein's Law of Relativity. In other words, the passage of time is relative to our position in the universe. Forces like speed and gravity will affect time, the higher the gravity, the faster time moves; the higher the speed, the slower time moves (or is it the other way around?). So there are areas of our universe where billions of years could be passing, but only a few days are passing for us. Which time is correct? Both. This has been proven scientifically many times (one year on the Sun is like 67 seconds shorter than a year on the Earth, because of the Sun's stronger gravity).

This could also mean that the billions of years needed for the creation of the universe, according to science, and the six days of creation, according to the Bible, could be the same period of time.

Add to this the fact that the universe is expanding, thus events from the past are being "stretched," they appear as if they took more time than they actually did. So if we were to be able to travel back in time, it's entirely possible that the world around us would begin to slow down more and more the further we travel back, until eventually time would seem to stop. Conversely, events would probably speed up faster and faster as we traveled further into the future. This would probably cause some major complications and thus, no, I think the universe was designed to forever prevent any form of time travel.

I never really understood the fine points of relativity, other than the idea that as you approach the speed of light, time apparently slows down. But I think that if time travel were possible, we would be inundated by visitors from the future.

stillakid
06-08-2004, 11:29 PM
Add to this the fact that the universe is expanding, ...


I no way do I mean to get into an "argument" or anything, but I find it interesting the way you have no problem tossing out reasonable science when it doesn't support a "young" 10,000 year old universe, yet you have no problem making a bold and definitive statement like the one above.

Now I'll be the first to admit that maybe you're right and the universe is expanding, however there are alternative theories afloat which suggest that this is essentially not what is happening at all. Einstein was (presumably) the first to come up with this idea of an expanding universe, but he didn't want to believe it for a variety of reasons. A few years later, enter Edwin Hubble who "found" the red shift which he then took to be proof that Einstein was right and that the Universe was expanding. Everyone, in fact, took this red shift as a matter of proof and Einstein himself gave up his lingering doubts.

What, praytell, could that opposite theory be you ask? Well, when we look out into the Universe, we do see a red shift (which, for those of you unfamiliar with the significance, means that as as an object giving off light moves away from us, like a star, the lightwaves grow longer. As all of you know from science class, a longer wavelength will appear to be red. If the light was moving closer, the waves would get smooshed and appear to be shifted toward the blue.) Anyway, there is another possible (albeit extraordinary) way for us to perceive a redshift: If everything was shrinking. What!? :eek: You mean that everything...EVERYTHING...is shrinking? But I don't feel like I'm getting smaller, you say. Right, but if everything shrinks at the same rate, you wouldn't have any idea that it was happening...unless there was some element or phenomenon in the universe that didn't shrink with us. Light is the wildcard. Both a particle and a wave, light confounds our definitions and, somewhat like gravity, is a difficult thing to understand.

There's a lot more to this theory (some graphs, some pictures, etc...) but the point being that the Universe is a strange place and we have yet to tap into its mysteries. Making definitive statements is a dangerous thing. I like your idea about the relativity of time (the most current estimate of the age of the universe is between 11.2 and 20 billion years, by the way). I know that religion would like to suggest that "young universe" stuff just to prop up their "documents," but your concept of the "week in one place = 20 billion years somewhere else" makes far more sense (whacky in human conceptual terms, but as stated, the Universe is proving to be a strange and marvelous place.)

Kidhuman
06-08-2004, 11:41 PM
Shhhh! Don't say stuff like that, some fragile idiot might get all offended and stuff. Plus some overzealous moderator will close this thread in a heartbeat if we keep talking about "religion.":rolleyes:



:D


That is one reason why I didnt delve into the territory.

bigbarada
06-09-2004, 12:12 PM
I no way do I mean to get into an "argument" or anything, but I find it interesting the way you have no problem tossing out reasonable science when it doesn't support a "young" 10,000 year old universe, yet you have no problem making a bold and definitive statement like the one above.

Now I'll be the first to admit that maybe you're right and the universe is expanding, however there are alternative theories afloat which suggest that this is essentially not what is happening at all. Einstein was (presumably) the first to come up with this idea of an expanding universe, but he didn't want to believe it for a variety of reasons. A few years later, enter Edwin Hubble who "found" the red shift which he then took to be proof that Einstein was right and that the Universe was expanding. Everyone, in fact, took this red shift as a matter of proof and Einstein himself gave up his lingering doubts.

What, praytell, could that opposite theory be you ask? Well, when we look out into the Universe, we do see a red shift (which, for those of you unfamiliar with the significance, means that as as an object giving off light moves away from us, like a star, the lightwaves grow longer. As all of you know from science class, a longer wavelength will appear to be red. If the light was moving closer, the waves would get smooshed and appear to be shifted toward the blue.) Anyway, there is another possible (albeit extraordinary) way for us to perceive a redshift: If everything was shrinking. What!? :eek: You mean that everything...EVERYTHING...is shrinking? But I don't feel like I'm getting smaller, you say. Right, but if everything shrinks at the same rate, you wouldn't have any idea that it was happening...unless there was some element or phenomenon in the universe that didn't shrink with us. Light is the wildcard. Both a particle and a wave, light confounds our definitions and, somewhat like gravity, is a difficult thing to understand.

There's a lot more to this theory (some graphs, some pictures, etc...) but the point being that the Universe is a strange place and we have yet to tap into its mysteries. Making definitive statements is a dangerous thing. I like your idea about the relativity of time (the most current estimate of the age of the universe is between 11.2 and 20 billion years, by the way). I know that religion would like to suggest that "young universe" stuff just to prop up their "documents," but your concept of the "week in one place = 20 billion years somewhere else" makes far more sense (whacky in human conceptual terms, but as stated, the Universe is proving to be a strange and marvelous place.)

I'll try to dig up what I can about the Expanding Universe theory, it's not a Creationist idea at all; so it wasn't contrived to try to prove our "documents." Not to imply that's what you were saying, but I do believe in the Creation account. Not only because of my faith; but also because it is the most scientifically viable based on the evidence I have researched.

Of course, true science cannot prove Creationism; but true science cannot prove Evolution either. In order for a theory to be considered scientific, it must A) be provable through experimentation or observation; B) be disprovable through experimentation or observation; C) be observable by any of the five human senses.

Evolution cannot be proven or disproven primarily because Evolution cannot be observed within our lifetimes, the theorized processes are just too slow for any of us to be able to perceive. Thus, Evolution cannot even be considered a valid scientific theory. So, that puts Evolution and Creation in the same boat, as both being beyond the capabilities of science to explain.

In what is probably one of the greatest deceptions of the 20th century, the scientific community has somehow convinced the world that not only is it possible to prove the Theory of Evolution; but that it has already been proven to be an indisputable fact.

Well, the facts actually tell a completely different story. The fossil record itself does more to hurt Evolution than anything else. We were always taught the Evolutionary Tree in school which mapped out the development of all life from single-celled "simple" life forms to invertebrates then eventually to vertebrates. But the facts destroy this theory completely, tentacles, gills, lungs, legs, insect wings not only appeared on Earth simultaneously; but also fully formed. There is absolutely no Evolutionary link between any animal kingdom. And absolutely no observable evidence that any animal has ever switched over into a new species. There are plenty of zygotic barriers that prevent interspecies contamination of the DNA of all animals.

Why have zygotic barriers when we all carry the genetic information of every other species? I have no idea, but the existence of such barriers is as real as the existence of our cellular structure.

In relation to your post, there is evidence that supports the Young Universe theory just as there is evidence to support the Old Universe theory. But there is also a lot of misleading information out there:

1. Carbon-dating is probably the most well-known of dating methods for fossils; but, when compared to tree rings, it is only accurate with objects younger than 1000 years.

2. Uranium dating is considered the most foolproof of dating methods; but it is based on unprovable assumptions about our universe (that the natural processes we observe now have been continuing unchanged since the beginning of the universe).

3. Light from the stars is probably the question I get asked the most by people who disagree with the Young Universe idea. However, the time it takes for light from distant stars to reach Earth is also based on unprovable and unobservable assumptions about the nature of our universe. Like all energy, light exists outside of time and thus is not affected by time the way we are. The theory is that time is only a factor when energy becomes matter, as long as energy stays energy time doesn't exist.

stillakid
06-09-2004, 01:25 PM
I believe that "Big Brother is real".



Me too. He just deleted mine and Barada's posts that were discussing science! As this example illustrates, I believe in the existence of morons. :ermm:

And by the way, BB, I did get your last post via the SSG email post update thing. Thank you for your well spoken response. I heartily disagree with just about every one of the conclusions you draw, but you've got more than just a "document" as your claim to validation. That says something. :) Although I'd urge you to reconsider the which brand of science that you choose to consider and whether or not you're just looking for that which supports the conclusion you wish were the truth.

I suppose that goes for all of these "ideas" that we all want to believe in. Some of them are pretty nifty, like Caesar's Santa Claus, and it's both cool and oddly comforting to believe that there are X-Files thingies out there beyond our reach, but happily it looks like in most cases reason prevails. :D

Bosskman
06-09-2004, 01:48 PM
Pipe down you two or this thread will get closed.

JON9000
06-09-2004, 01:58 PM
2. Uranium dating is considered the most foolproof of dating methods; but it is based on unprovable assumptions about our universe (that the natural processes we observe now have been continuing unchanged since the beginning of the universe).

3. Light from the stars is probably the question I get asked the most by people who disagree with the Young Universe idea. However, the time it takes for light from distant stars to reach Earth is also based on unprovable and unobservable assumptions about the nature of our universe. Like all energy, light exists outside of time and thus is not affected by time the way we are. The theory is that time is only a factor when energy becomes matter, as long as energy stays energy time doesn't exist.

That's interesting stuff. Unfortunately, nearly every truth we cling to does not rely on an axiomatic model, such as mathematics. As scientists, all we can do is observe empirical evidence and formulate a theory based it. These "truths" advance our understanding of the natural world. Our scientific "truths" are always provisional, however. If we observe that the sun rises every day, we might assume that it will always rise, but there is no certainty of this, merely a theory that happens to fit the facts. Theories must always be servants of facts.

If the truth is to be advanced, any theory must be open to challenge. Even the greatest thinkers must never be canonized into figures of authority. No authority can dictate in advance what can and cannot be believed or there is no possibility of progress.

So- to the theory of the young universe, okay, maybe that's the way it went. No one will ever prove beyond that it isn't that way. Just as they cannot prove with absolute certainty the sun will rise tomorrow. But based on the observable evidence, it seems that is the theory's best argument.

I'm going to shut up now and try to keep the conversation form being rated R for "religion" ;) .

James Boba Fettfield
06-09-2004, 02:04 PM
Me too. He just deleted mine and Barada's posts that were discussing science! As this example illustrates, I believe in the existence of morons. :ermm:

Uh, what posts are you talking about?

stillakid
06-09-2004, 09:13 PM
Uh, what posts are you talking about?


Exactly.


.............

JediTricks
06-09-2004, 10:21 PM
Ok, adding 2 more to the list:
Vampires - Nope, sorry, no bat-transforming or any of the other mythological stuff attributed to this one. Sure, some folks drink blood and gravy is often made of cow blood but that don't make those folks vampires.
Nostradamus - No way, the language used is often so open to interpretation - not to mention containing alternate meanings at the time they were written - that it's just too easy to use the quatraines after the fact to "prove" something.



SK99, concerning Einstein's theories, since some of them have been disproven or modified, I'm more open on the time-travel one, especially with the "clocks faster on a high-altitude plane than on the ground" and "viewing a near-light-speed sub-molecular particle at 2 different points in time" experiments having come around.


JMG, I hadn't heard theories that Atlantis was once around the Asian continent before, most center on the Mediterranean, western European and African areas. So how high tech did you theorize the Atlanteans were?


Rocketboy, so was your cousin on TV recently or do we have a rash of children who have piloting flashbacks?



ESP/telepathy?- Yes - if it werent real, would we hear stories of police departments using people who have these powers? they seem to work some of the time. First off, I got a good chuckle off that Midichlorians comment. :D

As for ESP though, my argument about the cops using them is that I heard recently that those were almost 100% urban myths. And guessing seems to work some of the time too, so that's why I don't buy the current ESP craze (which has only been around for about 150 years).


Zoltar, as for your additions:
Remote Viewing - I put very little stock in this, but haven't written it off completely.

Astral Projection - No, not buying this one, it's a little too over-the-top for me.

That 42 is the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything - Sure, but we still don't know the question (and it's not "how many roads must a man walk down before he can be called a man?") :D.


Mabs...
The Force - I am open to it and Lucas' pre-prequels interpretation, but as much as I want to believe, "probably not" is my official answer. Or maybe nature is "the force" and then maybe so... Uh oh, I think I broke my brain. But at least I still know this, TheForce.net, I don't believe it actually exists. ;)

Infinity - Yes, but is infinite nothingness really anything measurable? How can the universe be infinitely nothing?



I BELIEVE IN IT ALL, WHY NOT? Because it's all just a steaming load of c- HEY HEY! (much props to Krusty the Klown for that piece of genius)



Spontaneous human combustion: Not actually paranormal anymore, it's been scientifically proven (something to do with gasses in the body, don't think the same thing as on South Park though). Um, what? Who proved this? The only proof I've seen on this is proof it can't happen because the tissues in the body are too water-laden to simply go up by themselves without a foreign accelerant.


Street Lamp Interference - I have seen that at least a hundred times, but it's just coincidence I think, I've sat and watched, these street lamps go on and off when nobody's around too due to electronic ballast being out of calibration and environmental factors and whatnot.

Dunno what Rods & Orbs are supposed to be.

UFOs - Anything in the sky is a UFO until we identify it. As for Earth-visiting extra-terrestrial spacecraft though, no, I don't buy it even a little.



BTW, I think this religion discussion is totally ruining this thread.



Me too. He just deleted mine and Barada's posts that were discussing science! As this example illustrates, I believe in the existence of morons. :ermm: According to my records, no posts have been altered or deleted by mods in this thread though I wouldn't be surprised if that were to happen, this thread is definitely pushing the envelope and I would hate to see it get so hijacked that it gets closed so the alternative there would be to delete those posts that break the rules.

The mod staff does what it can not to act as "Big Brother" and control the thinking around here, but to ensure these forums remain open by respecting the rules made to keep them that way.

Rocketboy
06-09-2004, 10:34 PM
Rocketboy, so was your cousin on TV recently or do we have a rash of children who have piloting flashbacks?Ummm, no...why, did I miss something on tv?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-09-2004, 10:35 PM
JT- I'd have to dig up the links about Atlantis, but there are a bunch of them on the net as well as at your local library!!! I can't recall how advanced they were, but they definately got too big for their britches, which is why Zeus, in theory mind you, destroyed the island. I'll PM you if i find anything.

as for orbs, those are what you see usually in pictures, videos or with special equipment. Basically, it's a sign of supernatural activity in the area. It's basically a small circle, usually white/somewhat clear in color that is in the area of the spirit. Maybe Pendo can elaborate, but that's all i can recall off the top of my head. :D

stillakid
06-10-2004, 11:01 AM
Nostradamus - No way, the language used is often so open to interpretation - not to mention containing alternate meanings at the time they were written - that it's just too easy to use the quatraines after the fact to "prove" something.
.

NOTE: NOT A RELIGIOUS TOPIC

JT, in the very same way, a book was published a few years back called The Bible Code. In it, the "researchers" claimed that if you look at the original Hebrew (?) script of the Bible, you could find secret "warnings" and such delivered from its writers. While indeed they did manage to find some instances of what they claim, the method it took to derive it was pretty convoluted...

...However, in light of that, I sat down like any good rationalizer and figured out a way that something like that could have happened. Suppose (using our "time is relative" model) that while our sense of time is moving linearly in this direction, there is another civilization whose "sense of time" is moving in the exact opposite direction. Not only that, but they figured out a way to see us across the necessary dimensionsal separation that is required to make this possible. As they look out their window at us, we would appear to be moving backwards. The result is that they would see events occur (in reverse) and thus be able to backtrack to the spark that caused them. Given enough time and dedication, such a civilization could conceivably "send messages" to our dimension to warn us of impending doom. Of course this introduces the concept of a predetermined future which, well, who knows.

bigbarada
06-10-2004, 11:04 AM
I do have lots of documentation and essays to support my beliefs on Evolution and, if I didn't think it would get closed in a heartbeat, I would like to start a thread so we could logically and scientifically discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of the Theory of Evolution.

But, since these forums now only cater to meaningless fluff and we're not allowed to have intelligent conversations, then I guess it will just have to be put on hold indefinitely. :frus:

In the meantime:

Fairies and Pixiedust: No sir, I don't like 'em! blasted little imps never giving me a moments rest!!

:crazed:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-10-2004, 11:15 AM
But, since these forums now only cater to meaningless fluff and we're not allowed to have intelligent conversations, then I guess it will just have to be put on hold indefinitely. :frus:


It's not that we cannot have "intelligent conversations" at all, in fact, it's just the opposite. Some people on the boards find it very hard to hold conversations and leads them to personal attacks and insults which have no place no the boards. Perhaps if all the members of the boards could learn to keep their cool and hold "intelligent conversations," we'd allow the discussion of those certain topics which are now off limits. Thank you and have a nice day. :D

bigbarada
06-10-2004, 11:18 AM
NOTE: NOT A RELIGIOUS TOPIC

JT, in the very same way, a book was published a few years back called The Bible Code. In it, the "researchers" claimed that if you look at the original Hebrew (?) script of the Bible, you could find secret "warnings" and such delivered from its writers. While indeed they did manage to find some instances of what they claim, the method it took to derive it was pretty convoluted...

...However, in light of that, I sat down like any good rationalizer and figured out a way that something like that could have happened. Suppose (using our "time is relative" model) that while our sense of time is moving linearly in this direction, there is another civilization whose "sense of time" is moving in the exact opposite direction. Not only that, but they figured out a way to see us across the necessary dimensionsal separation that is required to make this possible. As they look out their window at us, we would appear to be moving backwards. The result is that they would see events occur (in reverse) and thus be able to backtrack to the spark that caused them. Given enough time and dedication, such a civilization could conceivably "send messages" to our dimension to warn us of impending doom. Of course this introduces the concept of a predetermined future which, well, who knows.

Oops, I missed page 2. :o

The Old Testament of the Bible was originally written in Hebrew over 3000 years ago. The Bible Code researchers were actually using the Hebrew Torah, which is just the first five books of the Christian Bible. Just wanted to clear that up.

About the Bible Code, I'm on the fence about it's authenticity. The researchers printed out all of their methods, but I'll admit that it was pretty convoluted.

Although, your conclusions about the origins of such messages seem more of a logical stretch than just believing in God. Or, if you recall what I mentioned earlier about energy not being affected by time, then a being composed of pure energy might be able to observe our entire timeline the way we read a book since that being would, theoretically, exist outside of time itself.

And finally:

Predetermined Future: to an extent.

Pendo
06-10-2004, 12:22 PM
Spontaneous human combustion: Not actually paranormal anymore, it's been scientifically proven (something to do with gasses in the body, don't think the same thing as on South Park though). Um, what? Who proved this? The only proof I've seen on this is proof it can't happen because the tissues in the body are too water-laden to simply go up by themselves without a foreign accelerant.LMAO at "Pendo Mulder" :crazed:! I may be mistaken but I'm sure I read once that it was proven with gasses of some kind. However you're probably right, I never researched into Spontaneous Human Compustion thoroughly.


as for orbs, those are what you see usually in pictures, videos or with special equipment. Basically, it's a sign of supernatural activity in the area. It's basically a small circle, usually white/somewhat clear in color that is in the area of the spirit. Maybe Pendo can elaborate, but that's all i can recall off the top of my head. Orbs are a small ball of light that are usually only caught on Digital cameras/film in suposedly haunted locations. They are commonly believed to the the first stage of a ghost's manifestation.

PENDO!

JON9000
06-10-2004, 01:37 PM
"Uh, if there's a steady paycheck involved, I'll believe anything you say."

Okay, who can tell what that's from? :Pirate:

El Chuxter
06-10-2004, 02:08 PM
Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing that would be, uh, the guy who's name I can't remember from Ghostbusters. Not Egon, Ray, or Peter, but the other guy, the only one who isn't a scientist. (Ernie Hudson?)

Dr Zoltar
06-10-2004, 02:55 PM
Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing that would be, uh, the guy who's name I can't remember from Ghostbusters. Not Egon, Ray, or Peter, but the other guy, the only one who isn't a scientist. (Ernie Hudson?)
You got it! The character's name is Winston Zeddemore.

"Ray, When someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!"

stillakid
06-10-2004, 07:22 PM
And finally:

Predetermined Future: to an extent.


That's like being "kinda pregnant." You are or you're not. If my future is already predetermined, then there is nothing I can do to alter it. If I can alter it even a little bit, then it isn't predetermined then, is it?

JediTricks
06-10-2004, 07:55 PM
Adding another one:
Bermuda Triangle - Perhaps on some of the things reported there, such as magnetic disturbances and odd weather patterns.



Ummm, no...why, did I miss something on tv?Yeah, a few weeks ago I think, could have been a few months, there was a kid on one of the major networks' TV news magazines (I think it was ABC's) who was very young and he and his family were talking about his past-life regression to this specific fighter pilot from WWII and how he crashed and all these details like what you described.



JT- I'd have to dig up the links about Atlantis, but there are a bunch of them on the net as well as at your local library!!! I can't recall how advanced they were, but they definately got too big for their britches, which is why Zeus, in theory mind you, destroyed the island. I'll PM you if i find anything. I've heard some Atlantis myths, but never one in Asia before.


as for orbs, those are what you see usually in pictures, videos or with special equipment. Basically, it's a sign of supernatural activity in the area. It's basically a small circle, usually white/somewhat clear in color that is in the area of the spirit. Oh, I think I know what you're talking about, I'd just never heard them called that before. Considering how many issues can monkey with cameras and make unintentional special effects, I'm incredibly skeptical on the issue to the point of nonbelief.



JT, in the very same way, a book was published a few years back called The Bible Code. In it, the "researchers" claimed that if you look at the original Hebrew (?) script of the Bible, you could find secret "warnings" and such delivered from its writers. While indeed they did manage to find some instances of what they claim, the method it took to derive it was pretty convoluted... Yes, I've heard of this, it made the news a few times (not that I watch the news that often). I think they said they were using some sort of complex mathmatical algorithm that revealed these messages, but between the hindsight issue, the vagueness and randomness issues, and the fact that the translation of ancient Hebrew remains a hotly-debated issue for the last thousand years all makes me too skeptical to put any weight towards it.

Your theory has been presented before in various forms, I think the sci-fi show "First Wave" suggested something very similar, claiming Nostradamus's quatraines were actually reporting what this guy had done to stem off an alien invasion. In general though, I don't understand what their motivations would be in doing these sorts of things.

darthvyn
06-10-2004, 08:19 PM
Ghosts? - not really...

Alien life? - yes. visitations? dunno... "taken" is an awesome show, though...

Parallel universes? - yes.

Spontaneous human combustion? - nah...

ESP/telepathy? - yes.

Telekinesis? - a little harder to swallow, but maybe...

The Loch Ness Monster? - eh... no...

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? - there's got to be some sort of missing link between humans and apes...

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? - isn't this the same guy as previous, only in white?

Past Life Regression - i was king tut, atilla the hun, and darth vader in previous lives!

Crop Circles - cool patterns. they DO exist - the debate is whether they're caused by unconventional means... that, i don't know...

Time Travel - i was going to say the same thing as lucifersam - we all live on a big time machine, only it goes one way...

and my addition...

ouija board - i'm sure the gateway to the other side is not mass-produced by parker brothers...

stillakid
06-10-2004, 10:14 PM
ouija board - i'm sure the gateway to the other side is not mass-produced by parker brothers...


Good one! And you're right. The gateway is mass-produced by RJ Reynolds. :smoker:

Sidiously Darth
06-10-2004, 11:34 PM
Ghosts? - not really. I've heard and seen things that were out of the ordinary but I wouldn't say they were ghosts.

Alien life? - I have to agree with the idea that they aren't little green men.

visitations? - You know a lot of people claim to have been abducted but I don't know any of them.

Parallel universes? - Have to be. Star Treck proved it. lol

Spontaneous human combustion? - Only Johnny Storm flames on!

ESP/telepathy? - considering we only use a small portion of our brains, yes.

Telekinesis? - see previous topic

The Loch Ness Monster? - No b/c it's already dead.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? - Yeti/Abominable Snowman? - There is quite a bit of unexplored territory around the world. The idea that animals, plants, insects, etc. exist that we don't know about is quite possible.

Past Life Regression - If it does, it's not doing me any good right now.

Crop Circles - Angry cows trying to scare off the aliens. :p

Time Travel - The Vatican has a time machine. :crazed: Don't know what good it does them but I think it's a possibility.

ouija board - It's all about perception. I point back to ESP. The mind is a very powerful tool and sometimes when we want something to happen so bad, it happens. Plus, you know someone is pushing or pulling on the little pointer.

Boxing - Yes! Heavyweight boxing is fixed!

arctangent
06-11-2004, 04:04 AM
i know the darkness believe in a thing called love :crazed: !

mabudonicus
06-11-2004, 07:25 AM
Bermuda Triangle I've read and seen a few things about huge chunks of frozen methane (cool it!!) under the sea in some areas of the triangle, which cause sudden eruptions on the surface and a corresponding violent updraft, it is pretty much unpredictable (or was, especially if you don't know to look for it) so I do believe that a lot of unexplained crashes took place there before this came to light... I'm pretty sure aliens weren't responsible, unless they put the methane there when they were dumping their spacecrafts' "tank" on the sea floor :D

And Orbs- I've seen some of them mass distributed e-mail with pics that "you won't believe"; maybe the true-est subject line ever attached to bulk e-mail; I know how photoshop works a bit too well, thanks :beard:

Rocketboy
06-11-2004, 08:48 AM
As for Bigfoot, this was on Yahoo! today:

Yukon Men Convinced They Saw Sasquatch
Thu Jun 10, 8:57 PM ET Add Strange News - AP to My Yahoo!

WHITEHORSE, Yukon - Conservation officer Dave Bakica is convinced that whatever two men saw early last Sunday morning, it shook them up. Marion Sheldon and Gus Jules were traveling out of town along the Alaska Highway on an all-terrain vehicle between 1 and 2 a.m. when they passed what resembled a person standing on the side of the highway.

Thinking it was a person from their small community who might be in need of a ride, they turned around.

As the two lifelong Teslin residents and members of the Teslin Tlingit Council approached to within 20 feet, they noticed the figure was covered in hair, but standing upright the entire time.

Though natural light was dusky, Jules saw what he believed to be flesh tones hidden beneath the mat of hair, he told Bakica.

Sasquatch? Big Foot?

"I have no doubt they saw something, and are convinced it was not a bear or anything in the ordinary," Bakica said. "They are convinced this was something out of the ordinary ... And they are pretty shook up over it."

Jules is an experienced hunter. Jules described the figure as standing about 7 feet tall, but hunched over. They could see it was not a person.

As the two parties went their separate ways, the dark-haired figure crossed the highway in two or three steps.

Bakica said ground conditions mixed with rainfall made it impossible to pick up definitive tracks and there was no hair on branches or other vegetation. Also, by the time he went to the scene Monday morning, half the town had been out to the site, he said.

Jules has launched a search for evidence that could document his experience.

"I have no doubt in my mind that they believe what they saw was a Sasquatch," said Bakica. "Whether it was or not, I do not know.

"Just because you can't prove something was there, does not mean it was not there."

Sheldon and Jules could not be reached for comment by the Whitehorse Star.

Teslin is about 90 miles southeast of Whitehorse.

It would not be the first suspected Yukon sighting of the folklore beast.

In April 1991, three Pelly Crossing residents reported seeing a Sasquatch while driving between Pelly and Stewart Crossing.

The creature fled back into the woods as the vehicle passed. The residents took a photo of what they claim were footprints measuring 15 inches long in the melting snow.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=817&e=1&u=/ap/yukon_sasquatch

Kidhuman
06-11-2004, 10:23 AM
ANyone care to change there answers now? :beard:

2-1B
06-11-2004, 12:31 PM
Ouija - I had an interesting experience regarding a Ouija Board and an answer it gave me about a decade ago . . . I'd like to talk about it but I don't need anybody lecturing me about it being demonic or something like that. ;)

bigbarada
06-11-2004, 02:03 PM
That's like being "kinda pregnant." You are or you're not. If my future is already predetermined, then there is nothing I can do to alter it. If I can alter it even a little bit, then it isn't predetermined then, is it?

Well, my explaination would probably be wholly classified under a "religious" discussion, so I can't go into that many details. If God exists and is omniscient, then He would know every possible outcome of every living thing's life in the entire universe. Thus if I was given a choice in life to follow two widely divergent paths, then He would know the eventual outcome of each of those paths (and the infinite number of secondary choices we make everyday). Thus, all of our possible futures are known before we are even born. That's what I mean when I talk about Predetermined Futures.

2-1B
06-12-2004, 12:21 AM
bigB, how do you feel about the dinosaurs ? Where do they fit in a much younger universe ? :)

JediTricks
06-12-2004, 03:08 AM
ANyone care to change there answers now? :beard:
Due to the reports of a couple half-frozen, freaked-out-of-their-minds, possibly-drunk yahoos who think they saw something that describes an awful lot like a bear in the dead of night without a shred of proof? I think not. And that description seems pretty astute (it was like a bear but not, standing and took only 3 steps to cross the road, hairy but you could see flesh underneath) for what reads as a quick glance at 2 in the morning. Honestly, how is this news at all? When I was 6 I heard jingle bells on the roof, doesn't mean there's a real Santa.

Ouija board - nope, sorry, seems like an awful lot of folks pushing that thing around to spell out "you're screwed" by itself.

Nobody else has anything to say about Vampires or Nostradamus? Those seem pretty big right now, I'm surprised.

2-1B
06-12-2004, 03:27 AM
Nostradamus is a joke. Even my feeble brain could retrofit a modern day occurance into his prophecies. That's about as silly as people using Revelation as if it is some sort of modern prophecy. :rolleyes:

JT, there was something going on with that Ouija board one night long ago . . . I couldn't get it to work AT ALL between myself and another friend - but two of my female friends had that thing sliding all over the place. Easily faked, of course. So I slipped in and starting asking questions. Dog's name ? Meh, one of my friends could have known that. A few other questions were answered which again could have been known to anyone. But THEN I asked the question, "who is my favorite Star Wars bounty hunter?" and I was seriously not thinking that much about the answer. The Ouija thing moved to "B", then "O" and I knew I had my friends cornered because there was no way my fave was Boba Fett. No ****, my smile faded as it went to "S" and then "S" again, finally to "K." Of course, Bossk was and is my favorite of that bunch. But I'm telling you, neither of these girls knew who Bossk was, let alone that he was my favorite. And I wasn't thinking of Bossk the whole time, either. I dunno, my subconscious must have come through and "moved" the Ouija because I was just BARELY touching that thing, making sure I wasn't pushing it. It's weird.

Anyway, how old are the dinosaurs supposed to be ?

Kidhuman
06-12-2004, 08:36 AM
Nostradamus was a joke, and as for Vampires, them too. I believe their might of been sdome freak who killed people and drank their blood, but novampires.

bigbarada
06-12-2004, 09:24 PM
bigB, how do you feel about the dinosaurs ? Where do they fit in a much younger universe ? :)

They fit very well actually, in fact dinosaurs are even mentioned in the Bible (the Behemoth and the Leviathon). There is plenty of evidence to support dinosaurs co-existing with humans, and even evidence that dinosaurs didn't die out all that long ago.

stillakid
06-13-2004, 12:21 AM
They fit very well actually, in fact dinosaurs are even mentioned in the Bible (the Behemoth and the Leviathon). There is plenty of evidence to support dinosaurs co-existing with humans, and even evidence that dinosaurs didn't die out all that long ago.


I'll say this once and drop it: There is no real evidence that the Universe is this young. It just isn't possible. There's this holy roller type (can't remember his name offhand) that presents his "evidence" around the country at Bible meetings and such to people who want to hear "proof" of what they want to believe. I saw him on 20/20 or something like that. Seriously, this guy sounded like a snake-oil salesman. He talked really fast and made "connections" that, upon subsequent review, weren't really as connected as he made them seem in his hurried presentation. I really wish I could remember what this guy's name was so I could look him up. But the funniest thing was the way he would somehow in the same breath completely indict science and the scientific method for being inaccurate and then continue on to use science (the parts that worked for him) to "prove" his point. For instance, the one part I kind of remember was when he was talking about the dinosaurs (just coincidentally). He threw out all these whacked out numbers and dates and such saying essentially that no science today could be trusted...then right afterwards he said something pretty close to: "...and what do we find when we go look at the evidence that's out there..." ...and he concluded with his own version of truth. To the mezmerized, they seem to have missed the fact that he dismissed science entirely outright in the first half of the statement, and then he used science ("what do we find when we go look at the evidence") right after that. DUH. That just so happens to be the scientific method that he had just dismissed with malice. Yet his room fool of believers just nodded their heads in unison saying things like "I ain't no descendent of no ape." If nothing else, it showed a certain level of conceitedness and ego to suggest that humans were that removed from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Anyway, when it comes to Sasquatch, Ouji Boards, Vampires, the Easter Bunny or any of this other X-Files stuff, there certainly isn't any evidence that this stuff doesn't exist so anything is possible. However, just like your parent's telling you that Santa Claus is coming to drop off presents, it's vitally important to look at the source of the information and figure out what the motive might be. Look at it this way, who has the most to gain from keeping the Loch Ness Monster story alive? Uhhhh, the gift shop perhaps? Anybody with an outlandish story that flies against the grain usually is selling something. Buyer beware. :greedy:

2-1B
06-13-2004, 01:05 AM
Thanks for the input bigB. Man, I'm glad the dinosaurs are extinct because I'd hate to be eaten by one. :p

stillakid, I have to agree with you that the universe is pretty old.

Darth Jax
06-13-2004, 01:16 AM
young, old, adolescent, the universe will get this thread closed soon.

Tonysmo
06-13-2004, 03:30 AM
great threads of late. ( keeps my mind fresh while at work )



I can still recall the horror on my sons face when he awoke to go to school.. and his tooth was STILL under his pillow. OH THE HORROR!!

My wife n I were both kinda shocked as he played it out for a few minutes before coming to terms.. " yeah, I kinda figured.. "


We still humor him and put a few bucks and a pack of garbage pail kids cards under his pillow when he loses a tooth.



so lets tack on a few new ones..

33rd parallel? lotsa wierd conspiracy with that one..

Men in Black? Thos guys who show up at the "crash site" I assume you'd have to believe in UFOs before you could believe in the Men in Black..


I do have a few websites that are wonderful in creating the illusion that we are not alone. If anyone is interested PM me or I can post them. They are of course safe..

Turbowars
06-13-2004, 08:16 AM
stillakid, I have to agree with you that the universe is pretty old.

Yes, I totaly agree.


Charles Darwin's idea's make perfect sense to me. Those 6 days are obviously more than 24 hours each of our time as we know it.

Sidiously Darth
06-13-2004, 09:22 AM
Okay, to make everyone rest easy, this is not a religious discussion and I don't want to get this thread shut down.

For those that haven't read the first message in this thread, I thought a healthy dose of reminder was required. This thread has started to do some leaning toward that subject and I for one don't want to see it closed on that account. It's been a nice change of topic and let's try to keep it open. :D

Bosskman
06-13-2004, 10:21 AM
Well said sidiously, if I'm not allowed to give my opinions on these subjects than BigB and Stillakid shouldn't be allowed either. I don't make the rules and I don't like them but follow them I must.

Bosskman
06-13-2004, 10:24 AM
Oh yeah, on the subject of vampires and werewolves and whatnot, probably but not exactly the way movies show them. (And no I'm not talking about those "goth" freaks who pretend to be vampires either) Once again though, since we can't talk about demons or possession, I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Turbowars
06-13-2004, 10:27 AM
Well said sidiously, if I'm not allowed to give my opinions on these subjects than BigB and Stillakid shouldn't be allowed either. I don't make the rules and I don't like them but follow them I must.It's called a double standard.

stillakid
06-13-2004, 10:36 AM
Charles Darwin's idea's make perfect sense to me. Those 6 days are obviously more than 24 hours each of our time as we know it.


Yeah, it was an idea turned into a fact by him getting dirty and going out into the real world to research it (Bosskman, there is a distinct difference between "opinion" and reality. Please refrain from attempting to get the thread shut down just because you don't know the difference). Really, any of these other ideas can be proven the same way (or disproven) by conducting the same kind of extensive research that Darwin did. Well, except maybe for aliens on Earth because of the Men in Black and their nifty mind eraser thingies. :speech:

Bosskman
06-13-2004, 10:52 AM
Stillakid, I've tried to refrain from arguing with you but you're ever-so-subtle ways of insulting anybody who has a different opinion than you do are really starting to get on my nerves. First of all I would like to know what type of educational backgroud you have. Discovery channel? X-files? Star Trek? You obviously haven't had that much if you think that there is any such thing as this "objective purely scientific" community of educated people out there whose existence you seem to accept as "fact". Proffessors want tenure, writers want to be published, thinkers want to be recognized. My point is people have motivations for the "facts" they"prove". If they don't come up with something new, they don't get paid, loose their tenure, don't get there books published, etc. You see where I'm going with this? Probably not. Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. BTW have you ever actually read anything by Darwin, other than a one strip column in some magazine at the barber shop? It sure doesn't sound like you have.

LusiferSam
06-13-2004, 10:53 AM
Oh man, there are so many wrong things being said here that if I added my two cents to every one I'd go broke (or be banned). Any time you guys want to debate a real scientist on the merits of modern physics or astronomy you just find your self some armor plating for you rear end and come talk to me.
With that said there's what I've missed:

Anti-Gravity Plating: No

Atlantis: Not really.

Remote Viewing: No

Astral Projection: No

Street Lamp Interference: Not familiar with this one, so no answer.

Orbs: Never heard of, won't answer.

Rods: I know a few Rods and I own rod like thighs so yes.

UFOs: I've seen at lest a half dozen UFO's. Do I believe any were space craft piloted by aliens? Not a change.

Ouija Boards: My sister owns one, yes their do exist.

And finally I have to leave you with three little words:
Comic Microwave Background.

Sidiously Darth
06-13-2004, 12:48 PM
Okay kids, play nice or you'll have to go to timeout. :p

All I was doing was pointing out The Chuxter's request that this not turn into a religious thread. There are plenty of subjects in the "Do you believe..." realm that don't pertain to God/Creation/Evolution areas. Believe what you like about those subjects but I would just rather not discuss them. They eventually lead to rants and arguments. Why? B/c most people are so deeply entrenched in their beliefs that no evidence, facts, theories or ideas will sway them. So let's all stay on the thread subject and be :cool:

BTW, you can still talk about dinosaurs without bringing in the above no no topics.

I still can't believe no one else cares about Heavyweight Boxing. It is one of the biggest conspiracies of modern time. Heck, I would believe in magic bullets before I would believe that boxing is legit.

Also, aren't Rods the same as ufos?

Bosskman
06-13-2004, 01:20 PM
Leprechauns

One time I saw one out of the corner of my eye for a split second. Then it was gone. It was behind the couch in the family room. I was 15 or 16 at the time. It freaked me right out. Now I can't say for sure that's what it was but that is what instantly came to mind when I saw it.

Sidiously Darth
06-13-2004, 01:53 PM
I have to admit that I occassionally see things out of the corner of my eye. It's just for an instant. Like a movement or a perception of something. Fortunately, there's medication for that sort of thing. :crazed:

LusiferSam
06-13-2004, 11:45 PM
Leprechauns

One time I saw one out of the corner of my eye for a split second. Then it was gone. It was behind the couch in the family room. I was 15 or 16 at the time. It freaked me right out. Now I can't say for sure that's what it was but that is what instantly came to mind when I saw it.
I use to have that kind of stuff happen to me a kid all the time. I'm not sure I'd call them leprechauns because I never gone a good glimpse of them (except for one time). I'd see something duck down or dash around a corner and it was gone. As a kid I called them "dog tails" because the glimpse I'd get remind me of my dad's dog's tail, but all kinds of colors. It has not happened to me in years, the last occurring when I was 11.
One time I was at my grandparents house and was watching tv in my grandfather's chair. I turned to look at something and saw a small round face looking back. I blinked and it was gone. It still freaks me out to retell it.

Tonysmo
06-14-2004, 02:26 AM
Ill agree with boxing if you can agree with the.. NFL

Thats right.. the NFL. You all witnessed the playoffs of 2003 right? If that didnt have FIXED written all over it..

1. Brett Favre. He does not loft an interception in the 4th quater and then just walk off the field like no big deal. it doesnt happen.. loss of his dad? I still dont buy it. He threw that game, or someone did..

2. Mike Martz. He does not EVER go for a tie with 2 minutes remaining before the half. He built that team by throwing the ball.. they didnt do that. again.. fixed..

3. Donovan Mcnabb. Um.. hello? runner? he runs all the damn time.. not in that last game he didnt. I know there are more. I just cant think of them all right now. There was just way too much going on to lead me to think that it was all legit.




no one for the 33rd parallel eh?

Mothman?

Chupacabras?

Bosskman
06-14-2004, 03:52 AM
Chupacabras - probably but they're not aliens or conspiracy theory mutants.

arctangent
06-14-2004, 04:11 AM
Stillakid, I've tried to refrain from arguing with you but you're ever-so-subtle ways of insulting anybody who has a different opinion than you do are really starting to get on my nerves. First of all I would like to know what type of educational backgroud you have. Discovery channel? X-files? Star Trek? You obviously haven't had that much if you think that there is any such thing as this "objective purely scientific" community of educated people out there whose existence you seem to accept as "fact". Proffessors want tenure, writers want to be published, thinkers want to be recognized. My point is people have motivations for the "facts" they"prove". If they don't come up with something new, they don't get paid, loose their tenure, don't get there books published, etc. You see where I'm going with this? Probably not. Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. BTW have you ever actually read anything by Darwin, other than a one strip column in some magazine at the barber shop? It sure doesn't sound like you have.

hey, bosskman, you are just the latest in a long line of members of this forum to find the futility of arguing with stillakid. he does seem to have this certain way of making you feel like he is belittling you with his arguments but i think its just stilla's way and he doesn't really mean anything by it (i hope not anyway). i got into a rather heated argument with stilla a while ago, over the group nirvana, of all things and i think i offended stilla so much that he won't 'talk' to me anymore. i did learn that its best not to argue too forcefully - most people have their own views and aren't going to change them just because you think they are wrong even if you do argue until you are blue in the face.

stillakid
06-14-2004, 07:48 AM
i think i offended stilla so much that he won't 'talk' to me anymore.


Huh? Where'd you come up with that? I'll talk to anyone so long as the topic is interesting or worthwhile and the other party has a worthwhile point of view to discuss. I'd never shun you or anyone else. You can't offend me with a point of view. You're not that special. :rolleyes:

And actually, for the most part, I rarely pay attention to who I'm talking to. I'll generally just read the comments and if a reaction of some kind hits me, I'll consider responding. But generally after that, I'll glance over to see who I'm writing to. So, no, I don't go out of my way to ignore anyone. Maybe you just haven't said anything lately that's caught my eye.

stillakid
06-14-2004, 08:01 AM
Stillakid, I've tried to refrain from arguing with you but you're ever-so-subtle ways of insulting anybody who has a different opinion than you do are really starting to get on my nerves. First of all I would like to know what type of educational backgroud you have. Discovery channel? X-files? Star Trek? You obviously haven't had that much if you think that there is any such thing as this "objective purely scientific" community of educated people out there whose existence you seem to accept as "fact". Proffessors want tenure, writers want to be published, thinkers want to be recognized. My point is people have motivations for the "facts" they"prove". If they don't come up with something new, they don't get paid, loose their tenure, don't get there books published, etc. You see where I'm going with this? Probably not. Arguing with you is like arguing with my dog. BTW have you ever actually read anything by Darwin, other than a one strip column in some magazine at the barber shop? It sure doesn't sound like you have.

You know, you're absolutely right and have only proven my point further. Everyone has something to sell when they come up with something that breaks from the norm. If anyone has visited one of those "anti gravity" places where things go uphill (Wyoming or someplace like that?), enjoy the spectacle and be sure to visit the giftshop on the way out. :D

Anyone the point is, any one of these things people are listing could in fact be true. But as far as I know, not a whole lot of research has been put into most of them. As far as the Darwin research goes, his initial discoveries of the "phenomenon" were at a lake (2 lakes actually) in Canada, I believe. I'd have to go re-look up the details to be sure, but that information is available to you as well to research on your own. Point being, he's the guy that did the research and then came up with the conclusions. Not the other way around (figuring out what he wanted to believe to be true then finding facts to support it and disgarding anything that didn't). Heck, Galileo had very little to gain when he proved Copernicus right. Angering the Church at that time would earn you more than a stern look, so while he managed to get his findings published, I'm sure it wasn't for the noteriety on the best sellers list.

Personally, I'm willing to accept any new theories or ideas no matter how outlandish. I'm clearly not as close-minded or as jaded toward the scientific community as you are in any case. It just so happens though that in regards to some topics (which I won't name for fear of angering the mods... :ermm: ), the so-called "evidence" they have is just an amalgamation of the previous research done by actual scientists in which they have pulled out that which supports their predetermined conclusion and tossed out the rest. It's not an accurate evaluation of the findings. I'm entirely willing to hear out anyone with another point of view, but if the arguments don't adequately support the conclusions, then that's the end of it. I don't see anything wrong with that kind of logic. Why do you?

arctangent
06-14-2004, 09:06 AM
You're not that special. :rolleyes:

cheers for that stilla! would you like to deflate my ego some more whilst you are at it ;) !

Sidiously Darth
06-14-2004, 11:00 AM
Chupacabras

Wasn't there an X-Files episode about them?

I feel that there are lots of undiscovered creatures lurking around in S. America. I've heard rumors of small dinosaurs living in very remote areas. I've seen aerial shots of huge anacondas, not sure if they are real photos though. From what I understand, there are still very dense jungles in S.America where things can live without being seen.

El Chuxter
06-14-2004, 11:04 AM
I believe in leprechauns. There's one who lives by the rock and tells me to start fires.

bigbarada
06-14-2004, 12:21 PM
Okay first off, I am not an expert on the subject of the origin of the universe. I'm just a student. A few years ago I would almost violently try to discredit or disregard anything posted by modern science simply because, honestly, I was afraid of it. I was afraid that I would find out that my faith is wrong. However, I'm a little stronger in my beliefs now and I realize that, if God did create the universe, then there can be nothing within the universe that proves otherwise.

Where many Creationists and Christians get hung up is on a deficient understanding of God and the universe. Not saying that scientists are necessarily any more enlightened, I think an athiest scientist who refuses to acknowledge any evidence of a Creator's handiwork is just as closed minded as the evangelist Stillakid mentioned earlier.

I'm currently reading a book by Dr. Gerald Schroeder, who recieved his doctoral degree in physics from MIT, titled "Genesis and the Big Bang: The Discovery of Harmony Between Modern Science and the Bible." Here's a short quote from his book, summarizing his theory (one that I find incredibly intriguing),"


There is just no avoiding the issue. The Bible gives God six days to form mankind from the material produced at the creation. Current cosomology claims, it even proves, that nature took some 15 billion years to accomplish the same thing.
Which understanding is correct?
Both are. Literally. With no allegorical modifications of these two simultaneous, yet different, time periods.

In case you're wondering about Dr. Schroeder's agenda in proposing this theory, he's not a conservative or even a Christian as one might guess.

Dr. Schroeder also states this about the old/young universe debate, which makes me think that my earlier post might be, at best, short-sighted.


The age of the universe has been measured using a variety of independent technological systems, including radioactive dating, Doppler shifts in starlight, and the isotropic "3 degrees above zero" radiation background. The methods of these studies are totally unrelated. Therefore, an error that might have occurred in one would not appear in the others. Yet the data taken from these diverse studies present a strong and scientifically consistent argument for a very old Earth and an even older universe.

So for me to totally dismiss the hard scientific evidence for the ancient age of the universe would be ignorance at its worst.

The main reason that I enjoy these discussion threads is that they keep me on my toes, when I am presenting the "evidence" that I have read about to a group of like minded Christians, of course they will all believe it since we all hold the same preconceived notions. However, when I visit a site like this in which everyone has different preconceived notions, then I find that my "hard scientifice evidence" is not very convincing at all. Thus I spent most of my weekend studying this very topic and realizing the shortcomings of my own arguments.

Bosskman
06-14-2004, 03:13 PM
Oh yeah stilla, put me in my place! Right where I belong baby! Gimmie more of that! Call me jaded some more! Close minded! Oh yeah Oh yeah Oh Oh Oh OHHHH! .........gotta wipe off my moniter now.

PS last I checked oh great one, the scientific method involved coming up with a hypothesis and then testing it. I don't know where I heard that from but I'm sure I'm wrong. If you say something it's gotta be true. I'm such a moron!

dingodad
06-14-2004, 03:23 PM
time travel: someone pointed out that noone from the future has come back to tell us of mastering time travel. a very good point! perhaps you can only travel forwards,as we allready are, but faster. i used to think that if time travel were possible, that you could only travel backwards since thats the only piece of time that has occured.
past life regression: i dont believe in past lives but i believe that more than just family traits could be passed down genetically."you have your fathers eyes" or "your grandmothers lungs" or "your great great great grandfathers piece of the brain that remembers being mauled by a lion".
i dont believe in E1 or E2 and i dont have faith in E3
i believe insecurity is a large factor in what a lot of people think they see.
i believe that geographical locations can mess with instrumentations and cause complimications, as in the bermuda triangle. i have heard that the pyramids did something similar to aircraft gauges during wwII.
i dont believe in ghosts as they are usually presented. why would ghosts be wearing clothes. cotton has no soul.

bigbarada
06-14-2004, 03:33 PM
Oh yeah stilla, put me in my place! Right where I belong baby! Gimmie more of that! Call me jaded some more! Close minded! Oh yeah Oh yeah Oh Oh Oh OHHHH! .........gotta wipe off my moniter now.

PS last I checked oh great one, the scientific method involved coming up with a hypothesis and then testing it. I don't know where I heard that from but I'm sure I'm wrong. If you say something it's gotta be true. I'm such a moron!

Y'know, as a courtesy to El Chuxter, so we don't get his thread closed, I'm gonna propose that we just move on.

Solypsists: While there are people out there who claim to believe this, I've yet to see any of them stand in front of a moving train and claim that it doesn't exist. For those who don't know what these guys are, they believe that the only true reality is what they personally experience with their five senses. Thus none of us really exists until we actually interact with them. So when they die, they believe the universe will cease to exist, since it is essentially a show put on for their own personal benefit.

Again, I'd be willing to bet that none of them would risk their lives by standing in front of a moving train and saying to the train, "You don't exist." :)

Bosskman
06-14-2004, 03:49 PM
Yeah, my great grandmother got mauled by a lion and I wake up every noght in colds sweats from the memory. The clothes thing about ghosts is sorta puzzling but I think it's got to do with how they appear to people rather than something physically being there. In general I don't think ghosts are what they seem (or claim) to be. I think that 99.9999 percent of the time that if somebody experiences a ghost, it's some sinister force trying to dupe the person into believing it is what that person wants to believe it is. Like if the "ghost of your grandmother" appeared to you then it's probably not really that, but something else out to trick you. I don't care what any "scientist" (oh hell I'll just say it, I don''t care what people like stillakid say) but there ARE all sorts of spirits out there that are out to fool ya. For example: a person believes that there is no such thing as ghosts. He says that ghosts are just some sort of energetic residue. He then goes to a known "haunted" location with some gadget that measures whatever and the spirit causes it to output whatever supports the guys theory. The guy then has "proof" that he is right even though he was duped by whatever the thing was. Now I can only guess at the motives of this entity but I think that's crossing another one of those lines so I'll just finish by insulting stillakid some more as insulting others seems to be the norm on these boards as of late. I wouldn't want to be labelled "closed minded" by not participating in such activities. On second thought, I've got better things to do with my time.

Bosskman
06-14-2004, 03:59 PM
I heard about those guys bigB. They're morons. You gotta be pretty full of yourself if you believe something like that. Then again....... not gonna go there. Not again.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-14-2004, 04:03 PM
Yikes! Can a mod come in and clean up this mess soon? Back to the real point of this thread:

Ghosts - Maybe. Not like bedsheet spooky things, but more like spirits (a la Obi-Wan in ESB and ROTJ). I've never had any real encounters so I don't know for sure.

Alien life - Definitely! How could you even watch Star Wars without believing in aliens?

Parallel universes - Not sure.

Spontaneous human combustion - No way, those people who say it happened to them are quacks.

ESP/telepathy - Like mind-reading? Yes. There have been some things I've seen that are pretty creepy involving this stuff.

Telekinesis - Of course. Yoda does it all the time. ;) :D

The Loch Ness Monster - No.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot - No, a guy died last year and said he made it all up. He could be lying, but I don't think so.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman - No, too much like Bigfoot.

Magical creatures/beasts (vampires, dragons, fairies, werewolfs, etc.) - No, we would have seen them by now.

dingodad
06-14-2004, 04:20 PM
i dont believe anything dead people tell me

Rocketboy
06-14-2004, 04:29 PM
Spontaneous human combustion - No way, those people who say it happened to them are quacks.Those that clain it happened to them aren't exactly alive anymore.
At least I've never heard of a SHC survivor...

sith_killer_99
06-14-2004, 06:09 PM
I have heard of one, there was a guy on the Discovery channel who claimed his arm spontaneously caught fire, not once, but twice! He was able to put it out. ;)

I actually believe SHC is possible.

Spontaneous human combustion may have some merit, with a scientific explination. The Army works with high frequency microwave radiation which is capable of causing a bird to explode in mid air, I've seen it! They fly into what seems to be perfectly normal air and POP, nothing but feathers. If something like this were to occur naturally every so often, in a lesser degree, and a person happened to be in the area, it may just be possible.

I also believe in the Bermuda Triangle. I saw a special on the Discovery channel about how Methane, which can be released from the ocean floor, may be the cause. As the gas is released it can cause a sudden flood capable of pulling down an ocean liner in a matter of seconds. They ran simulations that showed how devastating something like this could be.

Then they ran simulations on how the gas, when released into the air (from the ocean) can interfere with aircraft. When a plane encounters a pocket of Methane the instruments will read a decrease in air pressure which in turn causes the altimiter to indicate that the aircraft is rising (since air pressure is lower at higher altitudes). At the same time, the plane will actually drop, because Methane is lighter than air and provides less lift for the aircraft.

There was a lot more to it, but those were the high points. ;)

JediTricks
06-14-2004, 06:39 PM
Solypsists: While there are people out there who claim to believe this, I've yet to see any of them stand in front of a moving train and claim that it doesn't exist. For those who don't know what these guys are, they believe that the only true reality is what they personally experience with their five senses. Thus none of us really exists until we actually interact with them. So when they die, they believe the universe will cease to exist, since it is essentially a show put on for their own personal benefit.

Again, I'd be willing to bet that none of them would risk their lives by standing in front of a moving train and saying to the train, "You don't exist." :)I had not heard this term before, I'd only heard the abstract philosophy in fortune-cookie stylings. The concept seems quite Matrix-y, but more important, incredibly vain. Oh, the vanity of humans - the sun revolves around the Earth, the tree only makes sound if somebody hears it, the universe is just a VERY BORING dream I'm having right now.




Alien life - Definitely! How could you even watch Star Wars without believing in aliens? It's an alagory for human beings. :p



Sasquatch/Bigfoot - No, a guy died last year and said he made it all up. He could be lying, but I don't think so. How come you disbelieve the Bigfoot thing because this guy made it up but believe in mind-reading even though that too was deathbed exposed (albeit over 100 years ago)? I don't believe in either, I'm just asking why 1 and not the other. (this question applies to everybody, not just JabbaJohn)



The Army works with high frequency microwave radiation which is capable of causing a bird to explode in mid air, I've seen it! They fly into what seems to be perfectly normal air and POP, nothing but feathers. If something like this were to occur naturally every so often, in a lesser degree, and a person happened to be in the area, it may just be possible. Yeah, but from what I understand, the bird is destroyed by a powerful burst of microwave radiation which caused its molecules to vibrate so quickly that they created enough friction to cause the bird to pop. Even the most deadly radiation found on this planet only causes accelerated tissue decay and cellular degeneration, nowhere near rapid enough to cause instant fire. Hell, even outside the planet, the dangerous Van Allen radiation belts surrounding our little blue mudball only cause similar decay in humans and that takes hours to even get a worrysome dose (a day or more to get a fatal dose IIRC).

sith_killer_99
06-14-2004, 07:04 PM
Yeah, but from what I understand, the bird is destroyed by a powerful burst of microwave radiation which caused its molecules to vibrate so quickly that they created enough friction to cause the bird to pop. Even the most deadly radiation found on this planet only causes accelerated tissue decay and cellular degeneration, nowhere near rapid enough to cause instant fire. Hell, even outside the planet, the dangerous Van Allen radiation belts surrounding our little blue mudball only cause similar decay in humans and that takes hours to even get a worrysome dose (a day or more to get a fatal dose IIRC).

Well, I was trying to avoid this, but who's to say that it has to be a natural occurance? Ever heard of Star Wars defense? Nikola Tesla's Death Ray? The CIA? Hmmm....

I believe in Conspiracy Theories!

or do I?!?!

:crazed:

Oh, and by the way, I now look like this...

:beard: (I decided to shave my head for the summer and I am on leave so I am growing out my goatee) :D

JediTricks
06-14-2004, 07:45 PM
It's not really spontaneous if it's caused by a known outside source, otherwise it's planned by someone or a technological accident which doesn't fit the theory as I understand it.

LusiferSam
06-16-2004, 12:22 AM
Solypsists: As a kid (a real little kid) I believed in a form of this. I thought was world was one giant play being put on for me and only me. And the funniest part is when I traveled somewhere I didn't really go anywhere. It was an illusion made to folks change the stage.

2-1B
06-16-2004, 01:09 AM
Ill agree with boxing if you can agree with the.. NFL

Thats right.. the NFL. You all witnessed the playoffs of 2003 right? If that didnt have FIXED written all over it..

1. Brett Favre. He does not loft an interception in the 4th quater and then just walk off the field like no big deal. it doesnt happen.. loss of his dad? I still dont buy it. He threw that game, or someone did..

2. Mike Martz. He does not EVER go for a tie with 2 minutes remaining before the half. He built that team by throwing the ball.. they didnt do that. again.. fixed..

3. Donovan Mcnabb. Um.. hello? runner? he runs all the damn time.. not in that last game he didnt. I know there are more. I just cant think of them all right now. There was just way too much going on to lead me to think that it was all legit.

1) I've seen every Packer game for the past decade and I've seen Favre throw dozens of interceptions just like that. I'm sure he didn't think it was no big deal, that's just how he reacts. You mentioned his father . . . well if the NFL DID fix that game, don't you think they would have fixed it in FAVOR of the grieving QB ? I do, considering how much attention was given to IRv Favre's passing. Favre threw that game ? Ridiculous. Besides, that INT should have never even been possible, what with that 4th and 26 conversion by Philly.

2) Mike Martz is an overrated hump. He had a solid kicker to tie the game and Martz thought things would work out for them at home in OT. He got burned - good for him. I don't think he's the "genius" which some people label him as.

3) McNabb, let me think about that one. That whole team stunk vs. Carolina IIRC . . . besides, they shouldn't have even been in that game. Had Green Bay taken care of business, it would have been GB at Carolina.

If the NFL was fixed last year, they didn't choose a very interesting plotline. :rolleyes:
I'm not a Packer fan but I do think they could have beated the Panthers in Carolina for the Title game. Either way, I think the Patriots were going to beat the Panthers, Eagles, or Packers.

It's just too bad the Titans couldn't convert that 4th down in New England - they were sooooo close to the upset.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 02:42 AM
the universe is just a VERY BORING dream I'm having right now.

Then would you please do something about the traffic on the 405. Thanks. :D


Barada: Look, I don't mean to intentionally rain on anyone's parade. It's just that I've encountered far too many people who, like myself at a younger age, felt completely fine with just believing whatever someone else told them without looking into it for themselves. From the sounds of it, you've been doing a bit of research and if the conclusions you draw afterwards seem valid to you, then so be it. But at least you've taken the time to do the study for yourself with the threat of undoing your faith. Pope Urban made a conscious choice to not do that when Galileo confronted him with proof that the Earth was not the center of the solar system. Urban consciously decided to live in ignorance rather than disrupt the version of truth that he had been brought up on. It can be a difficult thing to open your eyes to a new paradigm other than the one our elders foist upon us and anyone brave enough to embark on the journey deserves kudos. :D

Hopefully the mods won't blow a gasket when I add "Do you believe in Intelligent Design?" to the list. Personally, I say yes. Yes I do. Can I prove it? No. No one can. But I also would like to believe in some levels of higher brain power, like ESP for one. I truly think that that sort of thing just might be possible via the principles introduced by String Theory. No proof in any of it so it'll just remain a belief for now, just like Intelligent Design. Lord knows, I sure hope that there's more to life than this brief 70-ish years we get here. :ermm:

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 09:34 AM
Then would you please do something about the traffic on the 405. Thanks. :D


Barada: Look, I don't mean to intentionally rain on anyone's parade. It's just that I've encountered far too many people who, like myself at a younger age, felt completely fine with just believing whatever someone else told them without looking into it for themselves. From the sounds of it, you've been doing a bit of research and if the conclusions you draw afterwards seem valid to you, then so be it. But at least you've taken the time to do the study for yourself with the threat of undoing your faith. Pope Urban made a conscious choice to not do that when Galileo confronted him with proof that the Earth was not the center of the solar system. Urban consciously decided to live in ignorance rather than disrupt the version of truth that he had been brought up on. It can be a difficult thing to open your eyes to a new paradigm other than the one our elders foist upon us and anyone brave enough to embark on the journey deserves kudos. :D

Hopefully the mods won't blow a gasket when I add "Do you believe in Intelligent Design?" to the list. Personally, I say yes. Yes I do. Can I prove it? No. No one can. But I also would like to believe in some levels of higher brain power, like ESP for one. I truly think that that sort of thing just might be possible via the principles introduced by String Theory. No proof in any of it so it'll just remain a belief for now, just like Intelligent Design. Lord knows, I sure hope that there's more to life than this brief 70-ish years we get here. :ermm:

I'm sure you'll be really shocked to hear this but... I also believe in intelligent design. :eek: :)

The actual mathematical odds of life forming on this planet by random chance alone are beyond impossible.

The accepted wisdom for years has been that life formed from random processes out of the primordial ooze. All that was needed was the right basic ingredients and time.... lots and lots of time. This is summarized best by Nobel laureate George Wald when he stated:


Regarding the origin of life: Time performs the miracles. Time is in fact the hero of the plot.

Unfortunately, his skills at mathematics were substantially less than his skills in biology. Mathematicians have discovered that there is not enough time in the entire 15 billion year history of the universe for even one single-celled bacterium to form out of random chemical reactions. I have the actual numbers, but I don't know how to enter scientific notations on these forums. So the long version is:

The probability of duplicating, by random chance, two identical protein chains, each with 100 amino acids, is 1 chance in 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000 (130 zeroes)

There have been less than 100000000000000000000 (18 zeroes) seconds in the entire 15 billion year history since the Big Bang.

Thus, for a single protein to have been formed, by chance, we would need 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000 (100 zeroes) trials every second since the beginning of time!

To carry out these concurrent trials the feed stock of the reactions would require 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (90 zeroes) grams of carbon. A number which exceeds, many billion times, the estimated mass of the entire universe!

Rocketboy
06-16-2004, 11:19 AM
While I do believe there is some form of life out there, the odds of them being intelligent are slim.
Ever heard of the Drake Equation? Read and give it a try:
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html

Did you know that we, as humans (well, most of us), by our own defintion - having the use of radio waves, have only been considered intelligent life for a little over 100 years?

stillakid
06-16-2004, 11:28 AM
I'm sure you'll be really shocked to hear this but... I also believe in intelligent design. :eek: :)

The actual mathematical odds of life forming on this planet by random chance alone are beyond impossible.

The probability of duplicating, by random chance, two identical protein chains, each with 100 amino acids, is 1 chance in

Ahh, but it's not impossible. You proved it with your own statement. Observe that lonely little "1" sitting up there. Until there is definitive proof either way, that little "1" holds as much weight as all those zeros somebody can throw your way. And the last time I checked, zero equalled "nothing" and one equalled "something." It's that possibility of fact that keeps a question like this and many others firmly in the realm of "belief" and out of the "fact" column. It may seem unlikely that something as complicated as ourselves occurred randomly, but it is just as unlikely that a SuperBeing who has yet to prove itself (at least in definable terms for us mere mortals) was responsible. Yet at this point, either possibility for this specific question remains fair game.

So when coming up with odds for any of this whacky stuff (ESP, Big Foot, Ouji Boards, etc), don't throw the baby out with bathwater so long as there remains a viable alternate explanation. That's the nature and beauty of the scientific process, the ability to alter the conclusion when new evidence enters the equation.

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 11:54 AM
Ahh, but it's not impossible. You proved it with your own statement. Observe that lonely little "1" sitting up there. Until there is definitive proof either way, that little "1" holds as much weight as all those zeros somebody can throw your way. And the last time I checked, zero equalled "nothing" and one equalled "something." It's that possibility of fact that keeps a question like this and many others firmly in the realm of "belief" and out of the "fact" column. It may seem unlikely that something as complicated as ourselves occurred randomly, but it is just as unlikely that a SuperBeing who has yet to prove itself (at least in definable terms for us mere mortals) was responsible. Yet at this point, either possibility for this specific question remains fair game.

So when coming up with odds for any of this whacky stuff (ESP, Big Foot, Ouji Boards, etc), don't throw the baby out with bathwater so long as there remains a viable alternate explanation. That's the nature and beauty of the scientific process, the ability to alter the conclusion when new evidence enters the equation.

Usually for the purposes of statistics anything beyond 1 in a billion is considered practically impossible.

Even so, if that "1" does by chance occur, it not only has to happen once, but hundreds of times at the exact same time and the exact same place for it to form a viable 253 amino acid bacterium (the simplest form of life on Earth, the numbers I quoted above are for two amino acids), thus the odds go up to 1 in 10 with 40,000 zeroes. That's given 15 billion years to happen, which is completely contradicted by the fossil record (the Earth itself is only dated at 4.5 billion years). So modern science has to look beyond the natural processes of Earth for the origin of life.

In his book, Energy Flow in Biology (1969), Harold Morowitz a physicist at Yale University computed the odds I quoted above, he summarizes his results in this statement:


Random events cannot account for the origin of life, at least not in the time available.

In fact, the problem with life appearing so suddenly on Earth almost immediately after it was able to support life has led modern science to suggest an extraterrestrial source for life. This includes Francis Crick (from Watson and Crick), one of the scientists who figured out the structure of DNA. "Directed panspermia" is the new theory for the origin of life.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 12:06 PM
So modern science has to look beyond the natural processes of Earth for the origin of life.
.
____________________________________________

Popular Science, February 2004, page 62
Primordial Soup
Could life have emerged from the conditions on early Earth without divine intervention? In 1953 chemists Stanley Miller and Harold Urey of the University of Chicago filled a glass bulb with hydrogen, methane, ammonia and water to simulate the early atmosphere, then heated it with a Bunsen burner "sun" and battered it with electric "lightning bolts." After a few weeks, the bulb held a reddish-brown soup containing amino acids - the key building blocks of life. Scientists now believe ammonia may not have been present in the Earth's early atmosphere, but updated studies conducted sans ammonia have yielded similar results.

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=461

http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

http://www.accessexcellence.org/bioforum/bf02/awramik/bf02a2.html

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 12:55 PM
Dr. Schroeder addresses this experiment in his book (the one I referenced earlier):


The amino acids found in Miller's experiments were far from being alive. But even if his research had actually produced life, the question would still have remained: Can life arise from random reactions among inorganic molecules? Miller's experiments represented conditions that are not at all random. Each was life outside a test tube -- the researcher-- carefully manipulating the environment within the test tube.


...Miller proved that lightning and other sources of energy naturally present on Earth could convert inorganic molecules into several of the compounds present in life.
But how was nature to get these individual molecules organized into the complex array found even in the simplest forms of life? In theory, the needed sequence that would carry the basic molecules through the complex path ending in a true protein could occur step-by-step in chance reactions over long periods of time. The difficulty with such a slow and random process is that just as there is a given probability of forming an intermediate product in this chain of products leading to life, there is also a probability of its spontaneous dissolution.
At each step as we go from simple to more complex compounds, we are in a sense swimming upstream in the flow of entropy. The result is that the likelihood of the disintegration of a newly formed organic compound is much greater than the likelihood of its formation.


As we experience it, life is required to produce life.

To me the idea of random generation of life from non-life is comparable to the old world belief that maggots spontaneously generated from rotting meat. An outdated belief that Louis Pasteur finally laid to rest in 1860. Not even Darwin himself could accept the idea and he kept making reference to a "Creator" who started the whole process of evolution along.

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 04:48 PM
Alright. You two SHUT UP or this thread will get SHUT DOWN. Seriously, you guys have been arguing the same crap over and over for the last few years in threads that don't have anything to do with it. (except for that Jesus thread but that's what started this business) BigB, you don't have to prove God's existence. You and I both know that. Stilla, stop trying to make others look stupid/ignorant/(insert other negativism her) It's seems all you do is bounce from thread to thread, pick some poster, and disagree with them continuously to the point of insulting them. I aint gonna beat around the bush: (please don't take that in a sexual way) you're one of those guys who can't accept the FACT that not everybody sees things as you see them. Sorta like Comic Book Guy.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 05:38 PM
Dr. Schroeder addresses this experiment in his book (the one I referenced earlier):

Yeah, I know all about him. I won't argue his points here, I just wanted to show that there are experiments out there that show that this sort of thing is possible.


As for you Bossk, chill dude. Who appointed you forum police? If you don't like it, don't read it. Doesn't get much simpler than that does it? You obviously got a bug up your keister because I put you in your place a few posts back...take a deep breath and let it go. Ahhh, doesn't that feel better?

BigB and I aren't arguing, if you hadn't noticed. We're discussing and laying out various points of view. You seem to be the only one shouting in here. You're going to get the thread shut down, not us. But then again, maybe that's what your intention has been all along, as I alluded to the first time you decided to yell at me. :speech:

stillakid
06-16-2004, 05:45 PM
you're one of those guys who can't accept the FACT that not everybody sees things as you see them. Sorta like Comic Book Guy.


Well, I don't know who Comic Book Guy is. I guess I'll have to defer to some comic book geek type for an explanation on that one.

But as far as the rest of your accusation goes, not everything in this world can be boiled down to "opinion." There are absolutes. Especially when dealing with many of items listed in this very interesting thread, sometimes a person's preconceived beliefs run counter to what reality suggests is truth. As much as I really wanted to believe in Santa Claus, I managed to somehow get over the fact that he didn't exist (my version of him anyway). It's nice to know that the spirit of what he represents seems to exist though. :) I also want to believe in the Ouji board. It's like a text messenger to the other side. How cool would that be if true!? The fact that it's mass marketed by Parker Bros. manages to put a damper on the idea of it being authentic though. I'm not saying it isn't, but my Magic 8 Ball says "no." :rolleyes: I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes you have to set aside wishful thinking and use logic when it applies. Not everything is open for interpretation.

JediTricks
06-16-2004, 08:11 PM
Then would you please do something about the traffic on the 405. Thanks. :DHow do you know I haven't? You're not on it right now, perhaps my dream involves making it a parking lot ONLY when you're on it, the minute you hit that off-ramp, it's clearer than the 2 freeway in Eagle Rock. :D (OT - the state should really rename the 2 after Ponch & Jon.)



Where did that frown face come from? Freaky.You must have typed - : ( - without the space, which is automatically converted into a smilie. I've fixed it for you, you can deactivate smilies in the future by ticking the box in Additional Options.



Who appointed you forum police? If you don't like it, don't read it. Doesn't get much simpler than that does it? You obviously got a bug up your keister because I put you in your place a few posts back...take a deep breath and let it go. Ahhh, doesn't that feel better? Why don't you take a cue from your own comments here? Bosskman is simply a concerned participant in this thread that you've been taking way off-track, his point is valid and so much so that I'm a hair's-breadth away from deleting all the offending posts in this thread without so much as a thought to salvaging usable comments, not to mention handing out a 24-hour suspension or 2.


Stilla & BB, either start a new thread that conforms to the site's rules or if you can't be bothered to respect those, then take it to PM because right now you are hijacking this thread into a 1-on-1 discussion of a singular topic.

Rocketboy
06-16-2004, 09:43 PM
Well, I don't know who Comic Book Guy is. I guess I'll have to defer to some comic book geek type for an explanation on that one.He's from the Simpsons. And hilarious!

stillakid
06-16-2004, 11:03 PM
Why don't you take a cue from your own comments here? Bosskman is simply a concerned participant in this thread that you've been taking way off-track,
Oh, I'm not upset or anything like he is. Don't worry about me. Besides, I have a feeling that he's not so upset about the thread being supposedly "offtrack." There are other things going on there. Can't please everybody. :ermm:


How do you know I haven't? You're not on it right now, perhaps my dream involves making it a parking lot ONLY when you're on it, the minute you hit that off-ramp, it's clearer than the 2 freeway in Eagle Rock. :D (OT - the state should really rename the 2 after Ponch & Jon.) So you must sleep alot during the day. :mad:

;)

2-1B
06-17-2004, 12:32 AM
What's up with those tortoises that live to 100+ years ?

I can hardly believe it.

Sidiously Darth
06-17-2004, 02:21 AM
Stilla & BB, either start a new thread that conforms to the site's rules or if you can't be bothered to respect those, then take it to PM because right now you are hijacking this thread into a 1-on-1 discussion of a singular topic.

I don't have any fancy links or noble prize winning research to back this up but I think JT's right. While all this information is interesting to some extent, it has detracted from the true nature of this thread. All this philosophical and ideological banter takes up too much space.

I do have a quote for you though. Confucius - Man who pee through screen, strain himself. And you 2 are peeing on our parade right now. :stupid:

Anyway, I believe the govt. keeps a file on all of us but how detailed is this file? Is it on the level of X-Files or just your SSN & tax history?

Bosskman
06-17-2004, 05:07 AM
There's a really, really deep river right in front of my house called the Kenebecasis. There are stories about something big living in it. I think I once saw something but I'm not entirely convinced. I always feel uneasy swimming in it though.

Also there are all sorts of stories in my city (Saint John, New Brunswick) about old caves that go under it for miles and miles that are haunted and/or full of pirate stuff. Saint John is really hilly and rocky and there are lots of small caves and a few big ones but nobody has found THE tunnels yet. They're tied to another river called the St John. There is a deep narrow gorge where the river meets the harbour (on the Bay of Fundy, world's highest tides) and twice a day the forces of the tides and the river cayse the drop off to shift from the river into the harbor back to the harbor into the river. Two bridges span the gorge, one for trains and one for cars. There are a lot of rocks and rapids in there when this happens. At slack tide however, the water is eerily calm and ships can pass through. It's called the reversing falls and it is a terrifying place. I have had nightmares about it since I was a kid. A lot of strange stuff happens at this place. Anyways, about 40 years ago a guy was trying to commit suicide by jumping off one of the bridges that spans the gorge. He survived somehow (most are never found) but when the rescue people pulled him out his hair had all turned white and he would never speak of what he saw down there. Some say the entrance to the caves is under the water beneath the bridges but nobody has been able to check because of the river and the tides. I should mention that this information is mostly passed by word of mouth in my city. I've never read it in any of our trashy newspapers or seen it on any of our wannabe CNN news shows. The stories are all the same though and a lot of people know them. There was a lot of activity going on here 400 years ago by explorers and pirates and whatnot. This year is the city's 400th aniversary of it's discovery by Samuel de Champlain. (not sure if anyone outside of Canada knows about him, he was a french explorer) There was a lot of pirates and privateers around in those days, there's even rumors of pirate ships sunk around the city but it's too deep to dredge for them. Wierd stuff but I believe it.

stillakid
06-17-2004, 08:58 AM
I don't have any fancy links or noble prize winning research to back this up but I think JT's right. While all this information is interesting to some extent, it has detracted from the true nature of this thread. All this philosophical and ideological banter takes up too much space.

I do have a quote for you though. Confucius - Man who pee through screen, strain himself. And you 2 are peeing on our parade right now. :stupid:


In your opinion. ;)

Here's my next offering to the list: I believe that people are afraid to think anymore. Better to keep it light and superficial. Anything else just isn't "fun." :cry: By the way, what philosophical and ideological banter are you talking about? I look back and see nothing but research and scientific studies. Perhaps we were delving into one or more topics in essay form and strayed from the easy to digest "list," so if that's the rule here, I'd suggest a mod going through and deleting everything that isn't numbered 1-10.

lol

arctangent
06-17-2004, 09:33 AM
surely the discussions (however heated they got) are just an extension of 'what we believe'. there is nothing overtly religious about stillakid's and bosskman's posts. they mention no religious movements or particular beliefs by name. so sorry, i think those discussions and debates in this thread about how old the universe is, etc., should be allowed to continue. i, for one actually found them quite interesting. i believe in free speech and the right to express one's opinion.

bigbarada
06-17-2004, 11:00 AM
It's these kinds of discussion that get my blood pumping and make me excited to log onto this site everyday. Once I realized that Stilla was not trying to insult me and was just trying to keep me from falling into a rut of lazy thinking, then I really began to value his input. Without these kinds of arguments I would never even think about why I believe what I believe.

But, anyway, I'll take JTs advice and start a new thread, but that might have to wait until tomorrow since I have a lot of commitments today.

Anyways, sorry for hijacking the thread and I now return you to your regulary scheduled banter. :)

About the idea of the government having a detailed file on every one of us (X-Files style), I don't believe it at all. I was in the military for over ten years and one thing I've learned is that the average military soldier or government worker is neither intelligent enough, organized enough or focused enough to carry out this vast undercover conspiracy. The FBI and the CIA barely even communicate as it is!

My theory goes something like this, since every government operation is funded with taxpayer money, then that means that people working for the government don't get paid all that much (the president only gets $200,000 a year, much less than your average high level executive or star sports player). Thus if all these agents working for the government are really the best at what they do, then why not move to the civilian sector where they can make money hand-over-fist? The government gets what it pays for, and it doesn't pay much.

But of course, I was once in the military, I'm part of the system, so I could just be repeating what I was TOLD to say in order to squelch suspicion. :sur: :)

2-1B
06-17-2004, 12:27 PM
The president makes $400,000 per year.

Kidhuman
06-17-2004, 01:18 PM
NOt a bad paying job. Where do I sign up? :beard:

sith_killer_99
06-17-2004, 04:03 PM
Only in America will you find people willing to pay millions and millions of dollars to get a job that pays $400,000 a year and only lasts 4 years. Then do it all over again. :rolleyes:


I was in the military for over ten years :eek:

BigB, if you don't mind my asking, why did you get out? You were over half way there! Did you hate it that much? I have 10 in right now, going on 11 and I plan to retire, I figure if I have suffered this long I can do it a little longer and get paid a nice retirement check every month!!! Sure it won't be a fat check, but it will be enough to help me live comfortably and more than enough to support my SW addiction.

derek
06-17-2004, 05:56 PM
Only in America will you find people willing to pay millions and millions of dollars to get a job that pays $400,000 a year and only lasts 4 years. Then do it all over again. :rolleyes:.

but it's not their millions they're spending(except ross perot), plus when they "retire", they get that $700,000 a year lifetime pension, personal bodyguards and get paid millions to give speeches and have someone write their autobiography for them. :D

stillakid
06-17-2004, 07:10 PM
Once I realized that Stilla was not trying to insult me and was just trying to keep me from falling into a rut of lazy thinking, then I really began to value his input.

Thanks man! I'm happy that you're reading my posts in the spirit in which they are meant. I do make the conscious choice to be rather straightforward and not beat around the bush whenever possible. I've found that quite a number of people have difficulty dealing with it and would rather discussions stay "vague" or "nice."



About the idea of the government having a detailed file on every one of us (X-Files style), I don't believe it at all. I was in the military for over ten years and one thing I've learned is that the average military soldier or government worker is neither intelligent enough, organized enough or focused enough to carry out this vast undercover conspiracy. The FBI and the CIA barely even communicate as it is!
I've always thought this and oddly am happy and sad about it all at the same time. On one hand, it would be nice to have a government that had its sh** together enough to track me if I ever decided to become a terrorist. On the other hand its scary to think that someone could have that kind of power. But if it doesn't as you suggest, what the hell are we spending all of that tax money on? :sur:

What's the name of that "world organization" thing?



I believe in alchemy. :D

sith_killer_99
06-17-2004, 07:59 PM
About the idea of the government having a detailed file on every one of us (X-Files style), I don't believe it at all. I was in the military for over ten years and one thing I've learned is that the average military soldier or government worker is neither intelligent enough, organized enough or focused enough to carry out this vast undercover conspiracy. The FBI and the CIA barely even communicate as it is!


I've always thought this and oddly am happy and sad about it all at the same time. On one hand, it would be nice to have a government that had its sh** together enough to track me if I ever decided to become a terrorist. On the other hand its scary to think that someone could have that kind of power. But if it doesn't as you suggest, what the hell are we spending all of that tax money on?


Well, I gotta agree with BigB here, to a certain extent.

I think most of the tales about stuff like this come from good ol' J. Edgar Hoover era FBI tactics. I believe the Feds collected huge amounts of info on certain people, Hoover was known for his blackmail tactics and his obsessive control of information, it was how he maintained his power. This is what led to the different agancies cutting each other off.

I would say the government dosen't have a lot of info on the average citizen, but you can bet that anyone who has requested a security clearance has a big file on them, along with any government employee, there are files...somewhere. They probably collect info on certain political players as well, to include Richard Gere. ;)

JediTricks
06-18-2004, 01:27 AM
surely the discussions (however heated they got) are just an extension of 'what we believe'. there is nothing overtly religious about stillakid's and bosskman's posts. they mention no religious movements or particular beliefs by name. so sorry, i think those discussions and debates in this thread about how old the universe is, etc., should be allowed to continue. i, for one actually found them quite interesting. i believe in free speech and the right to express one's opinion.I didn't say they couldn't discuss it on the forums, what I said was they couldn't discuss it in this thread anymore, it was hijacking the thread from its original topic. They are perfectly free to start a thread on these subjects and try to stay within the rules of the site in there, but you'll notice neither has at this point.


Oh, and as for Alchemy, how can that NOT be possible? Lead and Gold are just 1 atom away from each other. We can make synthetic diamonds that are jewel-quality now, we can reshape DNA, we can teach gorillas to communicate with us, but we can't add a single atom to a metal molecule? LAME!

stillakid
06-18-2004, 01:31 AM
but you'll notice neither has at this point.
I believe that you're trying to make a point here, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what it could be.


I believe that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil.

JediTricks
06-18-2004, 03:04 AM
I will clear it up through the magic of editing:

"They are perfectly free to start a thread on these subjects, but you'll notice neither (of them) has (started that thread)."

Bosskman
06-18-2004, 04:55 AM
I believe changing lead (or maybe something else) is also possible. After all what JT said has validity. There will probably be a way to do it discovered in the future if it hasn't been already and is hidden. I'm sure the latter could be eaily true because, when you think about it, who wouldn't keep something like that secret?

El Chuxter
06-18-2004, 10:50 AM
I believe that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil.

And I believe that, after Son House and Charley Patton laughed him off as a no-talent guitarist wannabe, he went home and studied with a never-recorded guitar whiz (I forgot his name, but since he never recorded, it probably doesn't matter), and when he returned to House and Patton, he was so good that the myth sprung up about him having sold his soul. Being the great (aw, heck, best) bluesman that he was, he did nothing to discourage this story.

However, I believe that if Robert Johnson and his predecessor Tommy Johnson (a real bluesman, known mainly for "Canned Heat Blues" and "Cool Drink of Water Blues," and not just a name used in O Brother Where Art Thou) sold their souls to become great guitarists, Tommy got screwed. But if Tommy's deal was to be a great singer, it wasn't quite as bum a deal. :)

bigbarada
06-18-2004, 11:19 AM
If you don't mind my asking, who's Robert Johnson? :confused:

Kidhuman
06-18-2004, 11:37 AM
If you don't mind my asking, who's Robert Johnson? :confused:


WHO'S ROBERT JOHNSON???? Who is he???? I dunno either so I cant help ya there

2-1B
06-18-2004, 11:59 AM
Like Chux said, "the great (aw, heck, best) bluesman"

El Chuxter
06-18-2004, 12:02 PM
Who's Robert Johnson? WHO'S ROBERT JOHNSON?!?!?

I'm sorry. I kinda fainted there for a minute. :)

Robert Johnson is generally considered to be the greatest blues guitarist of all time and (along with Muddy Waters and a few others) one of the most influential on rock music. He recorded only 29 songs (some he recorded twice), and on most of his songs his guitar playing is so adept as to sound like two guitarists. His quick learning of the guitar to such a mastery led to the legend that he'd sold his soul to the devil to become the greatest blues guitarist. (Though he's the only one remembered by most people for this story today, it was actually a common legend about travelling bluesmen.)

He died in the late 30s (I believe in 1937) when the husband of a woman he was fooling around with poisoned him, and he was buried in an unmarked grave.

His most famous songs include:
Kind Hearted Woman Blues
I Believe I'll Dust My Broom (covered by Elmore James, Eric Clapton, and about everyone else)
Sweet Home Chicago
Come On In My Kitchen (covered by Keb Mo)
They're Red Hot (covered by the Red Hot Chili Peppers)
Cross Road Blues (covered as "Crossroads" by Cream)
Walking Blues (covered by Clapton)
If I Had Possession Over Judgment Day
Stones In My Passway (covered by John Mellencamp)
I'm A Steady Rollin' Man (covered by George Thorogood)
Hellbound On My Trail
Malted Milk (covered by Jonny Lang)
Stop Breakin' Down Blues

(Even those not listed as such have been covered by Clapton at one point or another.)

The way I see it, you both (and anyone else posing that question) need to track down either The Complete Recordings or King of the Delta Blues Singers.

JON9000
06-18-2004, 12:24 PM
He also sold his soul to the devil! :evil: :crazed:

stillakid
06-18-2004, 01:03 PM
Who's Robert Johnson? WHO'S ROBERT JOHNSON?!?!?I'm sorry. I kinda fainted there for a minute. :)


Whew, me too. Thanks for taking that one, and very very nice job at it as well. :) The kids of today can tell you everything about Britney but don't know about Robert Johnson. sigh. :( We'll call it the Avril Lavigne Syndrome.

Kidhuman
06-18-2004, 02:23 PM
I just never really got into Blues music. I know the names that I have heard through out movies and such, but never heard of Robert Johnson.


Kids of today.....pshaw...UI am as old as you are. :D :beard:

El Chuxter
06-18-2004, 02:35 PM
If you've ever heard Eric Clapton, you've heard the spirit of Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he's covered all 29 songs at one point or another, and he repeatedly claims that Johnson is the best musician of all time, his hero, and the only music that matters. I don't know if I'd go quite that far. :)

bigbarada
06-18-2004, 02:42 PM
Whew, me too. Thanks for taking that one, and very very nice job at it as well. :) The kids of today can tell you everything about Britney but don't know about Robert Johnson. sigh. :( We'll call it the Avril Lavigne Syndrome.

Well, as much as I appreciate being called a kid, I'm actually 31 years old. I just don't get into blues music that much; but I will look into expanding my horizons if he was that influential.

Thanks for the info, Chux, but how did he sell his soul to the devil? :confused:

El Chuxter
06-18-2004, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the info, Chux, but how did he sell his soul to the devil? :confused:

It's the story that popped up around him. He wanted to perform with Son House and Charley Patton (two of the earliest Delta bluesman, and both quite influential as well), but he was apparently a horrible guitarist. He went home and met up with them again after a very short time (I think it may have only been a few months), but now he was the greatest guitar player around.

Until historians much later learned he had studied with another player (his name and info is in the liner notes to Johnson's Complete Recordings), there was no rational explanation as to how he learned so much so quickly. So the story sprung up that he'd met the devil at a crossroads somewhere near Clarksdale, MS, and sold his soul in exchange for musical talent. Bluesmen of the time were often seen as pretty close to evil anyway (sort of like rock stars in the 50s), and Johnson was an especially hard-drinking, hard-living sort, so he allowed the myth to spread until no one seemed to remember the truth anymore.

stillakid
06-18-2004, 07:28 PM
Well, as much as I appreciate being called a kid, I'm actually 31 years old. I just don't get into blues music that much; but I will look into expanding my horizons if he was that influential.


I know. :) I was just being facetious. "Kid's today..." is just an expression like, say, "Get off my lawn!" :D

stillakid
06-18-2004, 07:29 PM
I believe that Paul Lynde is alive and kicking in Argentina.

Kidhuman
06-18-2004, 07:32 PM
If you beleive in forever
then life is just a one night stand
If theres a rock anbd roll heaven
you know they have one hell of a band.

Bosskman
06-18-2004, 07:35 PM
I think TUPAC is alive too. He's made more money off his "death" than he did before he was "killed" plus, there's no ongoing investigation on who "killed" him, and none of that other stuff. It can't be THAT hard to fake your own death can it?

stillakid
06-18-2004, 07:51 PM
I think TUPAC is alive too. He's made more money off his "death" than he did before he was "killed" plus, there's no ongoing investigation on who "killed" him, and none of that other stuff. It can't be THAT hard to fake your own death can it?


Ask Andy Kaufman. :D Didn't he just resurface in Vegas or something like that?

Bosskman
06-18-2004, 08:24 PM
He really actually did? I heard somebody say that but I wasn't sure I heard right. Tupac was "killed" in Vegas. Hmmmmmmmm..........

2-1B
06-19-2004, 12:16 AM
Bosskman, there isn't much going on in the Tupac investigation because the guy who possibly pulled the trigger was shot and killed awhile after.

No, Andy Kaufman is not alive. It was a hoax.

stillakid
06-19-2004, 08:46 AM
Bosskman, there isn't much going on in the Tupac investigation because the guy who possibly pulled the trigger was shot and killed awhile after.

No, Andy Kaufman is not alive. It was a hoax.


I believe in hoaxes. :D

JediTricks
06-19-2004, 02:37 PM
I don't believe Tupac is alive.


Stilla, your Paul Lynde post reminded me of another one:

Do you believe... that Hitler made it out of Germany alive at the end of WWII and lived out the rest of his life in Argentina? - Not me, but I'm surprised how many folks at least believe it's fairly likely AND that he's still alive today (which would make him 115).

stillakid
06-19-2004, 03:51 PM
Stilla, your Paul Lynde post reminded me of another one:

Do you believe... that Hitler made it out of Germany alive at the end of WWII and lived out the rest of his life in Argentina? - Not me, but I'm surprised how many folks at least believe it's fairly likely AND that he's still alive today (which would make him 115).

Well, yeah. They're all together down there along with Elvis.

stillakid
06-21-2004, 11:08 PM
Do you believe in George Lucas's words when he claims that Midichlorians were part of his plan all along?

Kidhuman
06-21-2004, 11:11 PM
If its in the movies then...yes

Darth Jax
06-21-2004, 11:15 PM
Do you believe in George Lucas's words when he claims that Midichlorians were part of his plan all along?

i don't even believe he envisioned the story as a 9 portions or even a trilogy. i think he had star wars and with its success decided to flesh out the story at that time.

bigbarada
06-22-2004, 03:08 PM
Do you believe in George Lucas's words when he claims that Midichlorians were part of his plan all along?

He might have had some kind of biological concept that he couldn't put into words, but midichlorians as they were described in Ep1? Not at all.

Lucas originally said that the series was supposed to be four trilogies: the prequels, the OT, a trilogy that took place concurrently with the OT and the ST (sequel trilogy).

I don't think he had much more than a two-page outline for the prequels, the only ideas he had for the concurrent trilogy (CCT) was that the "other" Yoda spoke of was supposed to be the star of the show. I'm willing to bet he had nothing in terms of ideas for the ST storyline.

Sometime while he was filming ROTJ, he decided not to do the CCT or ST, thus Leia was shoehorned in as the "other" and the idea of her being Luke's sister was created. After ROTJ was finished he claimed that he would come back and film the prequels as soon as technology had advanced far enough for him to realize his full vision.

That's how I understand it from the sources I've read, but since GL is in the business of rewriting history every other week, I guess we'll never really know.

bigbarada
06-22-2004, 03:16 PM
BigB, if you don't mind my asking, why did you get out? You were over half way there! Did you hate it that much? I have 10 in right now, going on 11 and I plan to retire, I figure if I have suffered this long I can do it a little longer and get paid a nice retirement check every month!!! Sure it won't be a fat check, but it will be enough to help me live comfortably and more than enough to support my SW addiction.

A part of it was because I felt that I was wasting my time. My MOS was radio repair (31U) and it was not a field I was terribly interested in. I kept re-enlisting hoping that eventually I would be able to reclass into the Graphic Design MOS (25M, I think). Eventually I got tired of waiting and decided that if I was going to work in Graphic Design, then I had better leave the Army ASAP. I am one credit hour away from getting my Associate's in Graphic Art now, and I'm 100% positive that I made the right decision.

Another part of it was that, with my body type, I was always on the overweight program. Even when I would work out religiously and practically starve myself, I would still be a borderline "fat boy." As a result, since I was always over or nearly-over my maximum bodyweight allowance, I was treated like a lazy slob. After ten years I just said "screw it, I give up" and allowed myself to get barred from re-enlistment at the end of my final tour.

Blue2th
10-23-2008, 01:55 PM
Why make a new thread when there are so many good ones to choose from on the subject?

Thought I would do some thread digging after I found this today:


US Tried to Shoot Down UFO, File Shows
October 20, 2008
Associated Press
LONDON - An American fighter pilot flying from an English air base at the height of the Cold War was ordered to open fire on a massive UFO that lit up his radar, according to an account published by Britain's National Archives on Monday.

The fighter pilot said he was ordered to fire a full salvo of rockets at the UFO moving erratically over the North Sea - but that at the last minute the object picked up enormous speed and disappeared. The account, first published in Britain's Daily Star newspaper more than 17 years ago and to this day unverified by military authorities, was one of many carried in the 1,500 pages the archives made available online.

The unnamed pilot said he and another airman were scrambled on the night of May 20, 1957 to intercept an unusual "bogey" on radars at a Royal Air Force Station Manston, an airfield at the southeastern tip of England about 75 miles (120 kilometers) from central London.

"This was a flying object with very unusual flight patterns," the pilot said, according to a typed manuscript of his account mailed to Britain's Ministry of Defense by a UFO enthusiast in 1988. "In the initial briefing it was suggested to us that the bogey actually was motionless for long intervals."

Ordered to fly at full throttle in cloudy weather, the pilot said he was given the order to fire a volley of 24 rockets at the mysterious object.

"To be quite candid I almost (expletive) my pants!" the pilot said, saying he asked for confirmation - which he received.

Retired U.S. airman Milton Torres told Britain's Sky News on Monday that he was the pilot and has spent 50 frustrating years attempting to uncover the truth of his mid-air encounter.

Speaking from his home in Miami, Florida, Torres said he never saw the UFO with his naked eye, but watched in awe as it appeared on his jet's radar and sped off before he had chance to fire.

"All of a sudden as it was coming in, it decided to take off and leave me behind ... The next thing I know it was gone," Torres told Sky News. "It was some kind of space alien craft. It was so fast, it was so incredible ... it was absolutely death defying."

In the newly published government file, the U.S. airman said the UFO appeared impossible to miss.

"The blip was burning a hole in the radar with its incredible intensity," the pilot said. "It was similar to a blip I had received from B-52's and seemed to be a magnet of light. ... I had a lock on that had the proportions of a flying aircraft carrier."

As he closed in on the object to prepare for combat, however, the object began to move wildly before fading off his radar. The target gone, the mission was called off, and he returned to base to an odd reception.

"I had not the foggiest idea what had actually occurred, nor would anyone explain anything to me," the pilot said. He said he was led to a man in civilian clothes, who "advised me that this would be considered highly classified and that I should not discuss it with anybody not even my commander."

"He disappeared without so much as a goodbye and that was that, as far as I was concerned," the pilot said, according to the account.

Britain's military said it had no record of the incident, according to the files. Neither did the U.S. military. The second pilot's account, also included in the files, paints a somewhat different picture of events, saying there were not one but several "unknowns" and that he did not remember being contacted by anyone about staying quiet. He did not mention the targets' size.

"I know this is not a very exciting narrative but it is all I can recall," the second pilot said.

His name, like his colleague's, was redacted from the files.

David Clarke, a UFO expert who has worked with the National Archives on the document release, said it was one of the most intriguing stories he had culled from the batch of files released Monday.

He said that the CIA once had a program intended to create phantom signals on radar - and that this may have been an exercise in electronic warfare. Whatever the case, Clarke argued that "there's no doubt something very unusual happened."

Clarke said the batch of files released Monday - which include witness accounts, investigations, and sketches - was part of a three to four year program intended to make a total of 160 UFO-related files available to the public.

Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-23-2008, 10:40 PM
I'll update my list a few years later . . . seems I'm even more skeptic now . . .

*Ghosts - Absolutely not. When you're dead, you're dead.
*Alien life - Yes, but I do not think it has visited Earth.
*Parallel universes - I don't know much about this, but I don't think there's another version of me somewhere else doing the same thing but in different colors (I watched that episode of Futurama yesterday, though :D ).
*Spontaneous human combustion - No . . . just don't play with matches.
*ESP/telepathy - "It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense." See: the South Park episode about John Edward.
*Telekinesis - Yes in Darkplace; no in real life.
*The Loch Ness Monster - It's a hoax; they would have found it by now otherwise.
*Sasquatch/Bigfoot - The guy who started this dies a few years ago and said he made it up. Even if he's lying, I don't believe this beast is real, just walking by itself in the woods.
*Yeti/Abominable Snowman - See above.
*Past Life Regression - Not sure what this is, but I don't believe in past lives.
*Crop Circles - These are all fake.
*Time Travel - It is theoretically possible, according to my black holes class (but, to be fair, I'm not really paying attention). I don't think you can build a machine and go slap Hitler in the face or anything, though.
*Anti-Gravity Plating, Remote Viewing, Street Lamp Interference, Orbs - I don't know what these are.
*Atlantis - I don't even think this is theoretically possible, is it? The pressure would be killer.
*Astral Projection - Is this an out of body experience? I've never had one, and I think people that do have these are just having weird dreams or something.
*Rods - I have one, so yes. ;)
*UFOs - They're more like interdimensional portals, aren't they? Er, maybe not. As I said on aliens, I don't think there have been any here, but I cannot say for sure.

Phantom-like Menace
10-24-2008, 12:58 AM
Ghosts?

I think consciousness is dependent on the physical architecture of the brain, and that without that physical aspect, our consciousnesses are just random, meaningless chemicals and energies.

Alien life?

No one can tell me there isn't other life out there. Saying there isn't is just ignoring sense. Otherwise, are they currently probing the nether regions of rednecks? I seriously doubt it.

Parallel universes?

I haven't given it much thought, but I don't see why not.

Spontaneous human combustion?

Not really. The human body, in a lot of ways is a big candle wick, but any time someone "spontaneously" combusts, it just means someone didn't look hard enough for a mundane cause.

ESP/telepathy?

I always joke that no one can read my mind because I can't even read my mind. I can't allow that a brain, little as we understand it, can remotely sense another person's chemicals, electrical impulses and brain structure to determine what another person is thinking. As for remote viewing and all those other ESP phenomenon, that's just nonsense. It all works the same way some crazy old women reads your fortune with a crystal ball.

Telekinesis?

This is always the one that most people immediately say no to. It just seems more sci-fi than telepathy. No to this, though, too.

The Loch Ness Monster?

Sasquatch/Bigfoot?

Yeti/Abominable Snowman?

Cryptozoology is always known to pull a coelacanth or gorilla out of their posteriors from time to time, so it's not like they haven't surprised us before. And at least in the case of the coelacanth, mankind had proof for a long time they were around. It's just that that particular community of man didn't realize they had a scientific discovery on their hands.

Sasquatch and Yeti I can give a maybe to. The Loch Ness Monster, I immdiately want to say no to. The possibilitiy that a breading population of very large creatures has stayed hidden, and the possibitlity that that same population can find enough food for sustenance in such a small body of water seems highly unlikely. But then I have to consider that there are sightings around the world at similar latitudes involving lakes cut out by glaciers, and it seems there has to be something there.

Past life regression

No, for the same reason I don't believe in ghosts.

Crop circles

Hoax

Time Travel

I'll cop out in the same way many physicists do and say I hope the laws of physics prohibits anything that messy.

cookiemonster
10-24-2008, 02:54 AM
Ghosts - Yes, but more energy related than Supernatural

Alien life - Yes, come on are we that arrogant to think we are the only life in the universe

Parallel universes - No

Spontaneous human combustion - No, oh crap I am on fire

ESP/telepathy - Yes

Telekinesis - No

The Loch Ness Monster - I would love to say yes, but I am going to say no

Sasquatch/Bigfoot - See Nessie

Yeti/Abominable Snowman - See Nessie

Past Life - Yes, more to do with one's energy

Is there 1 God/Devil - No, but I do believe there is a Source from where our energy comes and goes to, it is both good and evil, and it is the material form that chooses what to do with it.

Blue2th
10-24-2008, 09:16 AM
I take an agnostic view to all of this.
Let's just say "I want to believe" in all of the above.

Sure none of it has been proven beyond all doubt, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and even if it was found to be true, there would be a scientific explanation for all of it, and even some science we don't know about yet.

Tycho
10-30-2008, 08:10 PM
Okay, to make everyone rest easy, this is not a religious discussion and I don't want to get this thread shut down.

I'm curious as to what everyone here thinks about certain possibilities, legends, etc, the existence of which can be considered up for debate. So, do you believe in each of the following or not? (I'll throw in my thoughts on each a bit later, when I have enough time to do so.)

Ghosts? Probably not, but my consciousness is so powerful, that when I die I will become disembodied consciousness. In that sense, I will sort of be a ghost, but in reality I will be God's replacement.

Alien life? Of course. I am an alien and how else do you explain how Mouse Droids and Transformers exist?

Parallel universes? Probably. Every decision I've made, there is another me, making the opposite decision, and thus down through all the years I've existed, there are zillions upon zillions of parallel universes where I've made different choices. I just need to get me - this me - back to the one where I end up with Kristin Kruek, both naked in a jacuzzi.

Spontaneous human combustion? C'mon. You've seen me spontaneously combust on this website like every week. I think only Stillakid combusts more often.

ESP/telepathy? I am thinking about sex right now. Because I am telepathically sending this out to Eva Mendez, and you are all intercepting it, you are thinking about sex right now, too.

Telekinesis? Yes. I saw the Star Wars movies. What? You think they aren't real?

The Loch Ness Monster? No. I was swimming in Scotland and I have an unusually large snorkel.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? No. That was me again. But I shaved since then.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? No. I heard that was Mabs - and he still hasn't cut his hair, so if you're going to try to sell some pictures to the Inquirer, there's still some time left for you to do it.

Or throw out your own. - Yes. I threw myself away but the garbage man wouldn't take me. Something about it all not smelling right to him...

Phantom-like Menace
10-30-2008, 11:29 PM
The Loch Ness Monster? No. I was swimming in Scotland and I have an unusually large snorkel.

That's what she said.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
10-30-2008, 11:42 PM
Do you believe in George Lucas's words when he claims that Midichlorians were part of his plan all along?
Oh, yeah . . . go get the hardcover Making of Star Wars book. (I've said this before, though.)

LTBasker
10-31-2008, 01:10 AM
Ghosts - I believe in a slight possibility of it, but that 99% reported sightings and "evidence" pieces are fake.

Alien life - I highly believe there could be life out there, whether or not they have the ability to travel to Earth is difficult to say. However, I believe if they were intelligent enough to invent travel to Earth, they would be intelligent enough to limit their exposure, and the only real evidence that might exist was mere happenstance as there are so many people on the planet. As with ghosts though, I believe at most 99% of it is fake due to the lack of recent convincing evidence despite the increased amount of cameras in several countries.

Parallel universes - I wasn't sure, but then I realized I feel I absolutely must have a goatee. Logically, I am an evil parallel universe version, thus parallel universes must exist.

Spontaneous human combustion - Depends on the amount of Taco Bell consumed.

ESP/telepathy - Slightly.

Telekinesis - No.

The Loch Ness Monster - No.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot - I think there might be something that existed at some point, but is now extinct or too rare for us to find out anytime soon. Afterall, there are species that have been discovered in remote areas in the last few years that we could have never imagined.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman - Possibly, I would say there is a better chance of it existing rather than Sasquatch, especially if you place it somewhere like Antarctica due to the ancient life that once thrived there before it froze over.

Past Life Regression - Dunno.

Crop Circles - If any are real, and I doubt we'll ever truly know, I think they would be the equivalent of graffiti. I doubt they are though, if a more technologically advanced race wanted to leave mind-blowing signs, no doubt they would have the technology to carve it into rock or some much more improbably material. To play Devil's Advocate though, they could be real AND important, as being a test to see how we react to strong evidence, that can not only be proven wrong, but also replicated by clever humans. Basically; an inkblot on an exaggerated scale.

Time Travel - I just wonder...if the planet, the solar system, the galaxy, and the universe are spinning... What happens if you slow down from the speed of the universe? Or go faster than the universe?

Atlantis - In it's usual legendary sense; no. In practicality? Sure, I believe that there could have been an ancient society that encouraged science to the point where they had advancements that would not be seen until decades or centuries later. And, in their technological advancement, but still with a slight arrogance - possibly to nature - they built their empire in an unstable area, and were destroyed because of it.

Astral Projection - Possibly. Ghosts and ESP/Telepathy would have to be real first, I think.

UFOs - Yes, there are unidentified flying objects. Whether or not they're of un-Earthly origins is the part that matters. Honestly, the term bugs me slightly because it's a generic term, ANY flight-capable thing could be a U.F.O.


Do you believe in George Lucas's words when he claims that Midichlorians were part of his plan all along?

I believe that he now believes it was part of the plan all along, because I believe he has become senile so he doesn't actually remember exactly what he had in mind, and/or his short-term memory becomes ingrained in his long-term memory to the point where he truly thought it back then. Either way, no. I don't believe he had thought of a physical manifestation of the force. That's why it could only come off as contrived in TPM, and quickly dropped.

Tycho
10-31-2008, 01:32 AM
Do you believe there is one powerful platypus controlling....everything?

JEDIpartner
10-31-2008, 08:56 AM
Telekinesis? Possibly.

The Loch Ness Monster? Possibly.

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? Yes... and here's why: CLICK HERE (http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=3301)

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? Why not?

Jargo
10-31-2008, 11:50 AM
I don't believe in anything.I've seen evidence to prove some stuf and evidence to debunk some stuff. which is all very interesting but mostly pretty pointless. I have no burning desire to have everything explained and boxed off conveniently.

explaining everything takes the fun out of life. the only thing I struggle to understand is human psychology. with so many variables it's like trying to learn every language spoken on the planet all at once. that's more than enough to be feeding my brain with.

pbarnard
10-31-2008, 12:29 PM
I don't believe in anything.I've seen evidence to prove some stuf and evidence to debunk some stuff. which is all very interesting but mostly pretty pointless. I have no burning desire to have everything explained and boxed off conveniently.

explaining everything takes the fun out of life. the only thing I struggle to understand is human psychology. with so many variables it's like trying to learn every language spoken on the planet all at once. that's more than enough to be feeding my brain with.

Know what the difference is between a psychiatrist, psychologist and a neuroscientist is?

First can perscribe drugs for your brain and drives a nice car.

Second, tries to explain the brain but knows not how it "works", doesn't drive that nice of a car.

Learns about actual functions to help the first guy to keep getting grants and making fun of the physchology department while getting newer and nicer space at the university and doesn't drive a nice car. :whip:

Jargo
10-31-2008, 01:37 PM
I'm not concerned with professional psychology. it's all bollocks. i meant from a personal perspective the kind of psychology one learns about and understands through life experience and exploration. the common sense kind not the kind that legitimises excuses and pardons extremes of behaviour with buzzwords and paperwork.

Battle Droid
01-05-2009, 02:17 PM
Ghosts? Yes

Alien life? Yes

Parallel universes? Maybe

Spontaneous human combustion? No

ESP/telepathy? Maybe

Telekinesis? Maybe

The Loch Ness Monster? maybe

Sasquatch/Bigfoot? Yes, I believe I've seen a Bigfoot before.

Yeti/Abominable Snowman? Yes

TeeEye7
01-11-2009, 04:04 AM
I believe I'll win SirSteve's New Contest! :thumbsup:

bobafrett
01-11-2009, 08:37 PM
I belive that doing good deeds brings cash rewards!

sith_killer_99
01-11-2009, 09:56 PM
I believe I'll win SirSteve's New Contest!

False hope is better than no hope! lol

BTW, I'm winning!

bobafrett
01-12-2009, 06:01 AM
False hope is better than no hope! lol

BTW, I'm winning!


Yes, but your in the wrong thread.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
04-21-2009, 01:56 PM
hey folks, i figured this might be a good place to post this info. For our one year anniversary, my girlfriend and I went on a ghost hunt of Mansfield Prison/Ohio State Reformatory, where several films have been filmed, including SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION, TANGO AND CASH, and AIR FORCE ONE.

I have pics of possible orbs and I captured three voices/EVP's on my audio recorder. If you have time, feel free to check out my info/data and post any comments on my blog as they're public entries.

Pics by themselves: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34129318@N08/sets/72157616104074602/

Play by play blog (I use many pics, but not all of them): http://whitebrowgigs.livejournal.com/252634.html

EVP evidence: http://whitebrowgigs.livejournal.com/252833.html

Video clips/evidence from our two friends that we met there and ended up hunting with: http://whitebrowgigs.livejournal.com/253196.html The first video does have a potty mouth word, but hey, it shocked us.

Let me know if you have any idea what the EVPs are saying. Enjoy! :) :thumbsup: