PDA

View Full Version : Pride month... (can I post this?)



JEDIpartner
06-11-2004, 04:10 PM
Well... I'm gonna give it a shot as I don't know if this is will fly with the mods and the big man at the head of the table but I thought I'd bring this to the table! It's not meant to be political so I hope it's not construed as "political".

It's near mid-June and a month of Gay Pride celebrations will begin around the globe. I just wanted to give a shout out to the other gay members of the site and also to those who have befriended, defended and supported our presence here at SSG. I think you all very much.

I still come here and am amazed to find such amazing diversity in the Star Wars community. I have met some really wonderful and interesting people from different backgrounds, nations; of different colours, ages and (sometimes spiritual/political) beliefs and sexual orientations. Perhaps you don't understand what makes us who we are as there are always arguements about nurture and nature but most of you are kind, welcoming and even unafraid to ask questions and listen to our stories. I always welcome questions as it gives me an opportunity to educate. As long as the inquiry is serious... I don't mind. You've given many of us the opportunity to be who we are without feeling threatened or disliked. Inclusion is a wonderful thing.

Honestly, we are not all that different. We're all the same, really. It's just a matter of who we do or do not share physical intimacies with. As far as that goes... it's private. I came to SSG because I felt a kinship to all of you - a common interest in a movie. That is one of the many ways that we are alike. I just want to say that I am grateful for all of the friendships and "converstaions" I have shared on SSG for the past few of years. It's been great fun.

Anyhow... thank you for the kindness shown to the gay members of SSG and Happy Pride to my brothers and sisters!!!

derek
06-11-2004, 04:50 PM
i have a question i've always wanted to ask a homosexual person, but i don't know any personally. and i mean no ill will by asing it, so if you're offended i truely apologize. :)

the question:

why do you think you're attracted to other men?

i've always personally thought that homosexuality was a psychological disorder, but some say it's a "choice" or they are "born that way".

what's your opinion of this?

jjreason
06-11-2004, 05:32 PM
Psychological disorder? I don't know if you picked that word on purpose hoping to avoid being judgmental - but you're implying something is not right, which is wrong. Does a black person have a pigment disorder?

JP mentioned nature vs nurture - the debate over whether someone's genetic wiring or their environment has led to whatever expressed trait is being discussed - and I'm a strong proponent of the "blended" theory. It has been hypothesized that the brains of homosexual people (males anyway) develop in physiologically different ways, potentially based on increased stress levels undergone by the mother during gestation. Whether or not this has been proven (or disproven) I don't know. What's important to realize that good people don't form their opinions of other people based on their preferences. If you choose to not like someone because they like Coke as opposed to Pepsi, Asian girls or guys as opposed to white or black, designer clothes as opposed to vintage.... you're missing out on some great people.

Friends are friends regardless of these differences, and often as a result of them. Contrast and diversity make for interesting conversations, debates, etc. Different people stand to learn from each other, provided they can get past what makes that other person different. Enjoy your celebration, guys and gals.

Bobby Fett
06-11-2004, 09:53 PM
I have a question, if you don't mind:

When a straight person is looking for a partner, the choices are usually fairly obvious. When a gay person is looking for a partner, how do you recognize potential partners? I am referring to situations other than gay bars or things like that.

Thanks

bandon_29
06-11-2004, 11:06 PM
Well when i met my partner who is 20 years older than me (im 29) he is an over the road trucker we were introduced through my brother my now hubby partner what have you was a delivery driver for mcdonalds and he introudcued me one day and bampf that was five years agao he now works for a major retailer but alot of my friends met online through chatrooms personal ads online and in the newspaper there is nothing wrong with being gay we arent freaks or sickos it is geneticlly predetermed who is going to be gay or straight my doctor whom i have been going to since i was 5 said it is a trait at birth it isnt a choice.so dont treat us like mutants like i told this ignorant butthead i was arguing with once,what if there was something wrong with being straight? and regardless of what people think we dont try to convert straight people trust me we dont want you lol:crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :crazed:

2-1B
06-12-2004, 01:17 AM
Nature, nurture, who gives a damn ?

I'm proud to be straight and I'm proud of my gay friends. Rock on JP ! :)

**** all those people who feel the need to condemn. **** 'em ! :D

JediTricks
06-12-2004, 04:27 AM
the question: why do you think you're attracted to other men? i've always personally thought that homosexuality was a psychological disorder, but some say it's a "choice" or they are "born that way". Not being gay, I don't have an inner sense on this one. There's no guarantee this is what it is, but medical studies suggest that a part of the brain that is one size in a heterosexual male and a different size in a heterosexual female has been found to be the opposite gender's size in homosexuals. This would suggest "born that way" or some sort of abnormal physical development, I've run that by a few of my friends who are gay and they seem to agree with that.



Psychological disorder? I don't know if you picked that word on purpose hoping to avoid being judgmental - but you're implying something is not right, which is wrong.Science says that homosexuality is an abnormality, that doesn't make it "wrong" but it does have a "not normal" connotation obviously. In studies of animal orders, overpopulation often breeds homosexuality, possibly as natures way of controlling the population (not unlike a goldfish that releases a chemical into the water which its body then gauges the concentration in in the water to gauge how much it should grow) so if that's the case then suggests that it is not "wrong" at all.


Why is it that all the major pride festivities are sponsored by booze? My mother and her boyfriend just today mentioned that last year's West Hollywood festival was plastered with Tanqueray sponsorship ads. In that way, it kinda reminds me of St Patrick's Day. ;)


Anyway, I have no problem with this thread, it's not pushing the lines as of right now, but I would not be surprised if it goes down one of any number of troublesome avenues.

stillakid
06-12-2004, 10:57 AM
I have a question, if you don't mind:

When a straight person is looking for a partner, the choices are usually fairly obvious. When a gay person is looking for a partner, how do you recognize potential partners? I am referring to situations other than gay bars or things like that.

Thanks


"Do you know Dorothy?"

Any others?

mabudonicus
06-12-2004, 01:03 PM
Funny story from years ago, I never thought about sexual orientation at all, and one day this guy I knew said "I've gotta tell you something, and I'll understand if you have a problem with it"..... I didn't know where it was going at that point, I wasn't best friends or anything, this guy just tended to travel in the same circles as me and we got on well...
Anyways, I was sorta apprehensive til he said "Okay... I'm gay"...... it was confusing, and I realized how weird it must be.... I actually laughed with relief, I thought he was gonna say something crazy... that was the first time that someone had made their "orientation" obvious, and I was proud to laugh and follow up by asking "So?"

it is sad that someone has to feel so weird in such a way, I'm glad that our society is becoming more accepting of people's own realities.....


I fully support folks being who they are,Heavy Metal tells me this......
as JP says,intimacy is a private thing, you can only share it with people who wanna share it, anyone forcing anything on anyone is wrong, no matter it be concept, act or otherwise


In a weird way, being vegetarian has certain similarities; some people seem actually offended when I tell them, thinking somthing must be wrong with me and I'm gonna try to pry their mouth open and fill it with lentils; not gonna happen.... if I wanna eat nothing but vegetables and grains, it's really my business, and I promise the only time you'd have to deal with it is if you come to my house; anyone who comes to my house and has something to say can talk to the :beard: as far as I'm concerned......


WOW... Anyways....... Hat's off to everyone who is proud to be who they are, it isn't easy sometimes, but there's really no other way, platonic hugs all 'round, please watch the :beard:

JEDIpartner
06-12-2004, 04:43 PM
To answer Derek's question first: Well... I don't really know why I'm attracted to men. I don't think that I would have been able to tell you that when I was 5 years old and I thought boys were pretty cool that way. I guess I knew I was gay long before I knew about sex or even the fact that there was a word for it. That sort of goes to my "nature" stand on the whole thing. I was always exposed to boys being attracted to girls and I kinda knew that was the way it was supposed to be. For me I just knew I though my friend Steve was kinda cute and I wondered what it would have been like to kiss him. So... I just felt something early in my life before I knew that there was a word for it.

For Bobby Fett: I've not met you, but welcome to SSG. I see you have a low number of posts so I am going to assume you are new here. My name is Dale. How do we look for a partner? I don't know... how does anyone really look for a potential partner? I suppose it's easier to look for a heterosexual partner because the numbers and therefore the chances are much greater. Shooting fish in a barrel so to speak. Still... how do you know that the girl you are after isn't a very attractive lesbian. They exist and it could be quite easy to fall for the "wrong girl" or the "wrong guy" if you are a girl. Attraction is attraction, pure and simple. You really never know if you are going to meet someone with whom you could spend the rest of your life... much less investing in a longer term relationship. You can meet by accident at public event (concerts, lectures, sporting events or even school or work); a simple exchange of glances usually starts things in motion. Yeah... I suppose one could meet a potential partner in a gay bar (again... shooting fish in a barrel) but that is highly unlikely. I don't think that a bar/pub is a good place to meet a potential candidate gay or straight. I'm not saying it can't happen... it just usually doesn't.

One of the things that DOES bother me about gay life is that many gay men find it difficult to be mature or be settled down at a time when one would expect such things based on age. That's one of MY prejudices from within. I, fortunately, came to terms with who I am very early in my life and went through my adolescence when I WAS in my adolescence. Unfortunately, society has imposed this culture of exclusion and fear on so many gay people that they repress their true selves and don't come to terms with it later in life. My tenant, for example was married for 12 years and came out in his thirties. He acts as I would expect a 19 year-old to act. I am beginning to understand the "whys" of that and am learning to accept that. "Everyone can't be like me." Not being able to be who you are is not only damaging to one's self. It, unfortunately and eventually, involves a lot of other people in the long run. Again... my tenant married a woman because that is the image society imposed on him and he felt that he needed to follow that path or experience a difficult life. Well... he had a difficult life and spun the wheels of his wife for 12 years. They had no children, thank goodness. Unfortunately, he could have spent that 12 years with someone he was naturally inclined to be with and so could she. I'm not saying that he didn't love her. I'm sure he did. What I am saying is that society created a sitaution in which it was detrimental to both parties.

Anyhow... someone else can take the soapbox for a while.

Bobby Fett
06-12-2004, 10:24 PM
Thanks for the answer, JEDIpartnr

I guess I am kinda new. I've been reading and enjoying the forums for a couple of years, but my collecting interests are so far removed from the mainstream that I seldom have anything meaningful to contribute.

Live and let live.

derek
06-12-2004, 10:56 PM
hey, JEDIpartnr,

thanks for the reply.....and sorry if my question sounded like i think homosexual folks are crazy or something. ;)

derek
06-12-2004, 11:08 PM
Psychological disorder? I don't know if you picked that word on purpose hoping to avoid being judgmental - but you're implying something is not right, which is wrong. Does a black person have a pigment disorder? .

i guess from an "scientific" point of view, "whites", or light skinned people would be the ones with the "pigment disorder"......as those with dark skin would be better protected from the suns harsh rays. ;)

as for me thinking homosexuality is wrong, no i'm not making that kind of judgement, just as i think don't think "depression" or "obsessive-compulsive disorder" is "wrong".

........and i'm not suggesting homosexuality needs a cure either. i honestly couldn't say why i'm attracted to women, but i do know it's what nature requires for the species to continue, which leads me to my theory of homosexuality being some sort of psychological disorder. technically, it's a behavior that is just the opposite of what nature requires of mankind to thrive, hence my theory, but hey, i'm definately no expert. ;) JT's theory could be just as valid. :D

bottom line is if a guy like JEDIpartnr is happy and a good person, more power to him.:)

Rocketboy
06-12-2004, 11:18 PM
There's no guarantee this is what it is, but medical studies suggest that a part of the brain that is one size in a heterosexual male and a different size in a heterosexual female has been found to be the opposite gender's size in homosexuals. This would suggest "born that way" or some sort of abnormal physical development, I've run that by a few of my friends who are gay and they seem to agree with that.From what I remeber from my Psychology class, I believe it's the hypolthalamus that is larger in straight males and gay women, and it's smaller in gay men and straight women. Granted this is all theory and there is no definitive proof, but it does support the nature side of the debate. Holy cow...I learned something in that class! ;)


On another note, a past teacher of mine once said that he would never go to a gay bar. His reason? He wasn't afraid he'd be hit on by a gay man - he was afraid he wouldn't be hit on and that would mean neither sex would want him. :D

Turbowars
06-12-2004, 11:46 PM
You know, I can careless what your sexual preference is. It's how you conduct yourself and that you are a good person.

However I do have a problem.

The whole Pride thing is kind of strange to me. If I was to run around bragging white Pride, I'd be a raciest. Why do some groups feel they have to separate themselves, but at the same time they want to be accepted?

Beast
06-13-2004, 12:18 AM
Turbie, I think it comes from the fact that there hasn't been a whole lot of opression of 'white' people. They're definatly not a minority, and never really had to struggle for their rights to be accepted as the same as anyone else. That's just a personal opinion of course, I could be totally off base.

Where as many ethinic groups and homosexuals have faced incredible adversity when it comes to being accepted as just as good as anyone else. Just look at the massive fight for racial equality that was prevelent in the 50's. And now with gays and marriage in California and other states. It's pretty much the same opressive atmosphere that all minorities face, where they're forced by laws to not be who they are.

Now the gay community is facing similar issues, and they just want their rights. The reason why these groups fight for seperate/but equal is to keep their heritage and beliefs. After all, african americans and a gay couple are going to stand out pretty easily in public. So of course there is a need to be seperate but accepted.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Turbowars
06-13-2004, 12:32 AM
I guess you don't live in Los Angeles CA

Beast
06-13-2004, 12:39 AM
I guess you don't live in Los Angeles CA
Ummm, no I don't. And neither does like majority of the rest of the United States. What does location have to do with this. Other then some areas of the country are going to be more or less accepting then others. It was the same way in the 50's. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Turbowars
06-13-2004, 12:53 AM
What does location have to do with this.
Jar Jar Binks Alot, where I live and work I'm a minority. I'll stop here, because this looks to turn into a huge racial issue.

stillakid
06-13-2004, 01:38 AM
........and i'm not suggesting homosexuality needs a cure either. i honestly couldn't say why i'm attracted to women, but i do know it's what nature requires for the species to continue, which leads me to my theory of homosexuality being some sort of psychological disorder. technically, it's a behavior that is just the opposite of what nature requires of mankind to thrive, hence my theory, but hey, i'm definately no expert. ;) JT's theory could be just as valid. :D



I'm kind of with you. "Nature," as we understand it anyway, exists for no other reason than to just "continue." To do that takes reproduction. Any other versions of "mating" are, in terms of nature, just a waste of time and energy. Of course we humans have lots of other things to keep us busy during our 70-ish years on planet Earth, but put this in terms of a gnat or a dog and it's easier to see. Clearly the most logical use of the sexual organs is for reproduction which begs the question of why some individuals (across a variety of species) get a kick out of screwing around with members of the same sex as them? Why would "nature" create individuals like this if reproduction is essentially the point of all organic life?

I had this similar discussion with someone else a while back and we essentially whittled it down to the (odd) possibility that "nature" (whatever that is) somehow (don't ask me how) recognizes when the system is having trouble maintaining balance (in terms of resources vs. population) and manages to try to compensate for it by producing more individuals who have little to no interest in reproducing. Believe me, it sounds convoluted to me as well and somewhat supernatural, but if we are to play the P.C. game and come up with alternative explanations designed to not offend anyone (which I think is silly...if we are to use pure science to find real answers, we simply have to dispense with crybaby ego stuff and dig into the research which includes all possibilities, no matter how emotionally unpleasant they might be), I can't think of anything else that even remotely makes sense for why this sort of thing occurs in a species.

Does this sound plausible to anyone else?

2-1B
06-13-2004, 02:18 AM
Reproduction is overrated. I look around in amazement/disgust at so many examples of pure idiots having kids when they have no business doing so.

We should regulate heterosexual reproduction and increase quality gay parenting. Anything beyond that will get political so I'll be quiet now.

Once again JP, you rock ! :D

2-1B
06-13-2004, 02:34 AM
The whole Pride thing is kind of strange to me. If I was to run around bragging white Pride, I'd be a raciest. Why do some groups feel they have to separate themselves, but at the same time they want to be accepted?

It depends on what you mean by white pride. In my area, you can go to any number of "white" pride events, like Irish festivals, German festivals, Polish festivals, Italian festivals, etc. I've never heard of these people being called racists.

jjreason
06-13-2004, 04:22 AM
I think that Gay Pride is a direct result of so many of these men and women feeling (for no reason, other than the ridicule and scorn much of society likes to heap upon gay people) like they're doing something dirty or wrong, and that they have to hide that facet of their lives from their coworkers, friends and family (as sad as that must be). Many people spend huge portions of their lives "in the closet", for fear of what society will think of them should they choose to reveal their true self. When a gay person finally does decide to come out, there must be such a tremendous sense of relief - who wouldn't want to dance topless to disco music on a busy street? :sur: :D

Also, gay people tend to be an invisible minority - I would think that only a small percentage of gay folks can be pegged from a distance as such. A chance to stand up and be counted as something you're proud of (Polish, Gay, a Red Wings fan, what have you) should be taken whenever it can.

JEDIpartner
06-13-2004, 09:54 AM
I'm part of nature's "control group"... :D

Unfortunately, the media focuses their attention on the "freakshow" contingent of the "community" because that's what draws attention. What fun is it to show the larger group of men and women who blend into society? That doesn't get stares... although, that SHOULD make you start to wonder. ;)

JEDIpartner
06-13-2004, 09:57 AM
It depends on what you mean by white pride. In my area, you can go to any number of "white" pride events, like Irish festivals, German festivals, Polish festivals, Italian festivals, etc. I've never heard of these people being called racists.
Precisely... we have a number of Ethnic pride parades and events in the Cleveland metro area and that's not construed as odd or questionable. We all need to be proud of who we are and where we came from!

:classic:

stillakid
06-13-2004, 11:31 AM
Reproduction is overrated. I look around in amazement/disgust at so many examples of pure idiots having kids when they have no business doing so.


Great, then we'd have "Moron Pride" Week. That parade would be a hoot. :sur:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
06-13-2004, 12:29 PM
Great, then we'd have "Moron Pride" Week. That parade would be a hoot. :sur:

lol That would be hysterical!!! It would probably be the most a--inine parade in history as everything would be unorganized and wrong since it'd be run by ya know...morons!! :D

JP- I'm glad you feel comfortable enough around your fellow geeks to share your opinions and thoughts about homosexuality. I've had many friends and some family members who are homosexual and it irks me beyond belief when the media, have it be news or certain groups, show the gay community in a negative light. Then again, it irks me when the media shows ANY group in a negative light...stupid media :frus: We're all the same on this planet: looking for companionship, friendship and happiness. Who in the hell has the right to tell somebody they can't do this or that? Exactly, nobody has that right!

This is yet another reason why i enjoy the SSG boards and love being a part of the SW Geekdom community. We all come from different backgrounds, sexual preferences, races, locations and so on. (kicks into cartman voice), I love you guys...and girl (s)...." :crazed:

Hellboy
06-13-2004, 01:54 PM
Unfortunately, the media focuses their attention on the "freakshow" contingent of the "community" because that's what draws attention.

I agree, most of the gay people I've known don't fall into this category. I think thats why some of the gay events that focus on this contingent unfortunately do the gay community a disservice.

Growing up I never had any gay friends but once I got old enough to get a job I ended up working with a couple of guys who were gay and they were 2 of the nicest people to talk and hang out with at work. Later on in life my best friends sister came out and it was at that point I realized why she was a loner for the majority of her adolescent years and I felt sorry for her. Like others here I believe in judging a person on an individual basis, sexual orientation isn't even factored into whether I like or dislike a person. Its my feeling that the majority of people who are intolerant to homosexuals are mostly this way because they've never had any exposure to them on a personal level, that they know of, in their everyday life.

JP- I do have a question for you though. How do you feel about the big push as of late to produce gay programming on television? Do you enjoy shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Queer as Folk" or do you find them to be unnecessary and silly?

2-1B
06-13-2004, 03:09 PM
I heard that some people are working on getting a gay-themed network on the air ?

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-13-2004, 03:24 PM
I also have a few questions for you, JP. Please don't take any offense, as I don't mean any.

Are there two types of gay people, like the homosexual equivalents of a man and woman? Like how on Will & Grace one guy is masculine and one is feminine. I mean, if there are, are you supposed to go with one or the other? Or is that just a personality deal having nothing to do with homosexuality?

Also, what's the deal with the rainbow (and maybe the triangle and the color purple)? How did those become symbols of gay people? Just wondering.

And it's good to know you're gay. That explains some of your earlier posts. :D

kool-aid killer
06-13-2004, 03:36 PM
I heard that some people are working on getting a gay-themed network on the air ?

I believe MTV announced plans to launch a channel that was geared toward that audience. Though it remains to be seen what type of programming they would use to fill up its time slots.

Ive known a few homosexuals and have yet to run into the kind you see constantly portrayed on tv show: loud and colorfully dressed. Ive never had one ridicule me over my choice of clothes. I think that stereotype of them is way overblown. All have been quiet and nice to others. So for me its not seeing them as in what they prefer, but who they are.

JediTricks
06-13-2004, 04:45 PM
On another note, a past teacher of mine once said that he would never go to a gay bar. His reason? He wasn't afraid he'd be hit on by a gay man - he was afraid he wouldn't be hit on and that would mean neither sex would want him. :DOh man, I know EXACTLY what he means! A while back, I came back to town after almost a year in another city and found out one of my best friends was now gay. Even though I was not, she invited me to join her at her hang out - a West Hollywood coffee house - with all her gay friends, so being a good friend and bored I agreed and headed down there. Her friends were all nice, friendly, social people and so I was having a nice time when everybody took off for drinks, bathroom usage, or smoking and since I had a drink, didn't need to use the facilities, and never smoke I was thusly left alone to my own thoughts. It was at this point that I realized the same thing your teacher did, but by the end of the night I discovered that gay men have enough varied tastes to find the aesthetically-challenged such as m'self appealing far more than heterosexual women... it was at this point I became totally bummed because I realized I'd have it WAY easier as a gay guy than the straight loser I was. :( The ultimate ridiculous moment, lamenting one's own heterosexuality. :p



Turbie, I think it comes from the fact that there hasn't been a whole lot of opression of 'white' people. They're definatly not a minority, and never really had to struggle for their rights to be accepted as the same as anyone else. That's just a personal opinion of course, I could be totally off base. You're not going to see this often, but I totally agree with JJB on this one. Plus, even white folks often have pride in their ancestor's nationality, so that's kinda segmented white pride right there. It's just more proof that everybody's different and we're all the same too.... and more proof that Caesar already said what I was getting at, which proves that I should read a whole thread before responding. ;)


Turbo, IIRC we white folks are still a majority race in LA city and county, but the Latin peoples (mostly Mexican but other South Americans are counted in this too) will likely become the majority by the end of the decade.



"Nature," as we understand it anyway, exists for no other reason than to just "continue." To do that takes reproduction. Any other versions of "mating" are, in terms of nature, just a waste of time and energy. I disagree with this statement somewhat in the singular-species "continue" meaning. Look at nature as we view it today, animals interact by living together whether in symbiosis or parasitical relationships, oak trees would not continue to exist if not for the poor memories of squirrels, there would be a lot more flies without spiders, there would be a lot more garbage without roaches, there would be less plant life without worms. It's a rich tapestry, a web of life, one creature's actions unintentionally helps plants grow, the continuation of life is not one species but an entire ecosystem. If the rats overpopulate, perhaps nature kicks in and says "ok, time to turn some off some rat mating". We live to live, not just to mate, through the actions of our lives we create and destroy and alter the course of this ecosystem's events.



Great, then we'd have "Moron Pride" Week. That parade would be a hoot. I thought every day on the 405 was the Moron Pride parade. :D

"We're dumb, we're your chums, get used to it!"



I heard that some people are working on getting a gay-themed network on the air ? It is Viacom, the same company who brings us Spike, MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1, CBS, and a myriad of other channels.

JEDIpartner
06-13-2004, 04:45 PM
JP- I do have a question for you though. How do you feel about the big push as of late to produce gay programming on television? Do you enjoy shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Queer as Folk" or do you find them to be unnecessary and silly?Well... I have mixed feelings about these sorts of shows as many people do. My partner cannot stand "Queer as Folk" as he feels several of the characters on the promgramme portay gays in a bad light... Brian's a slut, Ted's a porn freak/drug user. The "Queer Eye" guys are unfortunate caricatures and stereotypes as well. Many in the community feel that there are not enough proper portrayals of gays on television and that these shows may cause the "unenlightened" to think this is how we really are. For me... I don't mind "Queer Eye" as it is rather silly fun. I also like "QaF" as broad soap opera type drama. It's nice to see people with whom I can relate on a certain level of experience on television. I recently told an "offended" gay friend that we really need to go through our "Amos and Andy" period before we can have those realistic portrayals on television. Then again... it IS television and are ANY groups portrayed all that realistically? At least most of the portrayals on television are embraceable/non-threatening types. We kinda need to get people to stop thinking we are harmful freaks and that certainly is a step in the right direction.

By the way... if you are an X-Men fan... try this: The next time you watch the films, substitute the word "mutant" with "gay(s)". You'll understand our world a little more.


I also have a few questions for you, JP. Please don't take any offense, as I don't mean any.

Are there two types of gay people, like the homosexual equivalents of a man and woman? Like how on Will & Grace one guy is masculine and one is feminine. I mean, if there are, are you supposed to go with one or the other? Or is that just a personality deal having nothing to do with homosexuality?

Also, what's the deal with the rainbow (and maybe the triangle and the color purple)? How did those become symbols of gay people? Just wondering.

And it's good to know you're gay. That explains some of your earlier posts. :DGood questions! Firstly there are always going to be people who are more masculine or more feminine in both the heterosexual and homosexual communities. I am masculine and my partner is also masculine. I don't think we need to connect a masculine with a feminine in order to make things work. I think it is a matter of taste. I, personally, don't like feminine men. I think it's rather unattractive. That COULD be a case of gender roles. I certainly have friends who range across the spectrum but most gay men tend to range in the "more masculine" part. Yes, there are some very "camp" or "femme" men and there are also very "masculine" women. I think that is part of the diverse make-up of our community as well as the hetero community. I've known very masculine women who are heterosexual. They were probably tomboys in their youth. Also... to clear up another myth-- we don't ALL need to go in the out door when we are "getting it on". Again... a matter of taste and preference.

That leads me to another part of your question. The rainbow flag. Why the rainbow flag? It represents the diversity of the world... not just the homosexual community. If you don't have all of those colours, you will never have something as beautiful and rare as a rainbow. Without all of those different types of people in the world, you will never have something as beautiful and rare as a diverse world in harmony.

The triangle and the colour pink (you stated purple) are remnants from Nazi Germany. Peoples of different walks of life were tagged with triangles of different colours. The people who were homosexual were tagged with cloth swatches made of pink material. The symbol still exists as a sign of an oppressed people. Many gays use this symbol as a reminder of a time when the unfair and unjustified treatment of fellow men resulted in the deaths of many people. In a way... it's not just about "us". It's about everybody.

stillakid
06-13-2004, 09:42 PM
I disagree with this statement somewhat in the singular-species "continue" meaning. Look at nature as we view it today, animals interact by living together whether in symbiosis or parasitical relationships, oak trees would not continue to exist if not for the poor memories of squirrels, there would be a lot more flies without spiders, there would be a lot more garbage without roaches, there would be less plant life without worms. It's a rich tapestry, a web of life, one creature's actions unintentionally helps plants grow, the continuation of life is not one species but an entire ecosystem. If the rats overpopulate, perhaps nature kicks in and says "ok, time to turn some off some rat mating". We live to live, not just to mate, through the actions of our lives we create and destroy and alter the course of this ecosystem's events.
Well, yeah, you're right but that doesn't negate my hypothosis. That "web of life" stuff is part of nature's effort to continue as a whole, yet when you toss out the extraneous stuff that we do (video games, wasting time on the internet, sports, etc) everything we do as individuals is about survival. That's why we have jobs (to get money to pay for food, shelter, and clothing). That illustration of responsibility then (theoretically) is what attracts a mate, although a quick look at an episode of Jerry Springer will show that fertile females don't always go for the most attractive (physically and economically) choice. In any case, we do stuff for our own survival and then try to make those efforts (our jobs) do double duty as "impression makers" to attract the best mate for us to reproduce with. The animal kingdom does the same thing without the "hobby-esque" extras.


I thought every day on the 405 was the Moron Pride parade. :D

Funny, I had the 405 in mind when I wrote that. :D Every f'ing moron in the world makes sure to get out early every morning to screw it up for everyone else.

JEDIpartner
06-14-2004, 09:34 AM
Thought for the day:

All I want is what you want or what you have. I will settle for nothing less and will expect nothing more. The only things in exception to that rule is what has been or will be obtained by an exchange of money. All else should be rightfully yours and mine by birth.

bigbarada
06-14-2004, 01:37 PM
Not being gay, I don't have an inner sense on this one. There's no guarantee this is what it is, but medical studies suggest that a part of the brain that is one size in a heterosexual male and a different size in a heterosexual female has been found to be the opposite gender's size in homosexuals. This would suggest "born that way" or some sort of abnormal physical development, I've run that by a few of my friends who are gay and they seem to agree with that.


I took Psychology a couple semesters back and we read about this study. The scientist who discovered the difference is gay and was just as surprised as any of us would be at the findings. I actually think he said something about the connections between the brain hemispheres, males typically have more connections than females and homosexual males have roughly the same amount of connections as females.

JON9000
06-14-2004, 01:43 PM
I just thank my stars that no one hates me or discriminates against me or thinks I am a freak because I am left-handed. I have no real idea, but I think being gay is sort of the same thing. I could write with my right hand, but it just doesn't feel right. Likewise, I suppose gay folks could try to make it work with a member of the opposite sex, but I have a feeling they would make the same assessment.

I think that society is really making progress toward being more accepting of gay people, and it is reflected in the media. When I was a kid, the only gay people on tv or in a movie were Mr. Kidd and Mr. Wint in Diamonds are Forever.

derek
06-14-2004, 05:16 PM
I think that society is really making progress toward being more accepting of gay people, and it is reflected in the media. When I was a kid, the only gay people on tv or in a movie were Mr. Kidd and Mr. Wint in Diamonds are Forever.

my favorite gay characters on TV are Mr. Garrison and Mr. Slave. lol

JediTricks
06-14-2004, 08:03 PM
I just thank my stars that no one hates me or discriminates against me or thinks I am a freak because I am left-handed. I have no real idea, but I think being gay is sort of the same thing. I could write with my right hand, but it just doesn't feel right. Likewise, I suppose gay folks could try to make it work with a member of the opposite sex, but I have a feeling they would make the same assessment.

I think that society is really making progress toward being more accepting of gay people, and it is reflected in the media. When I was a kid, the only gay people on tv or in a movie were Mr. Kidd and Mr. Wint in Diamonds are Forever.Jon, I was totally going to mention being left-handed when I was sure my "abnormal" comment was going to be taken out of context as a negative statement!

...damn lefties stealing my ideas. ;)


I've been watching more old movies lately and one of the more famous movie moments from the first half of the 20th century is a scene from "Bringing Up Baby" from '38 where Cary Grant's character - who is wearing Katherine Hepburn's robe - comes downstairs and meets Katherine's character's aunt with the following exchange:

Mrs. Random: Well, you look perfectly idiotic in those clothes.
David Huxley: These aren't my clothes.
Mrs. Random: Well, where are your clothes?
David Huxley: I've lost my clothes!
Mrs. Random: But why are you wearing *these* clothes?
David Huxley: Because I just went gay all of a sudden! (thanks to IMDB for the exact quote)
Anyway, it's a funny moment and Cary Grant plays this very specificly as a reference to being homosexual, not as "happy" as many folks have claimed over the years. Between the early '40s and the '70s though, portrayal of homosexuality was censored out of American cinema because Hollywood had come under the thumb of various morality-police types who gained power due to political changes and public image manipulation (a lot of stars in the '30s were being portrayed as innocent on screen but getting into trouble off screen, which left a bad public image especially with help from the media) - the studios were companies that made money off the public and were too afraid to risk offending, the Hayes act (that's not how it's spelled, but I can't remember the correct spelling) added to this with tons of rules the studio censors would enforce about the way certain things were portrayed.

Bosskman
06-15-2004, 04:58 AM
That Katatafish freaked me out. It literally gave me nightmares. Back on topic, I think its stupid to use somebody's sexual preference to describe them. I think the word "homosexual" is just another label that poeople (mostly politicians and the media) use to cause division among people. That's just my opinion.

DarthBrandon
06-15-2004, 07:45 AM
That Katatafish freaked me out. It literally gave me nightmares. Back on topic, I think its stupid to use somebody's sexual preference to describe them. I think the word "homosexual" is just another label that people (mostly politicians and the media) use to cause division among people. That's just my opinion.

That's what I was thinking as well Bosskman, I usually don't jump into these kind of posts, not my style I guess, but more & more you see labels or names given to divide others up. Black & White / Heterosexual & homosexual, I'm just using these two, but the list could go on for days if one really thought about it. This brings me to an interesting topic, a while back when my son was four (six now) we were watching a music video with five or six individuals who were not of the same skin tone as him. Well he started naming off our family members that were present saying "there's you daddy" & Lisa, Shaun (almost the same skin tone as the musicians) Nikki, Bayli, & himself. Now thinking back I never told him any difference about color / skin tones because I was brought up with the mentality that we are all the same regardless of color, sexual preferences / religion etc. I have a few friends that play for the other team :D , but I guess what I'm getting at is that it doesn't matter to me what you are as long as you are a good person towards others. So in closing enjoy the festivities & be proud of whatever you may be or do in life because it's too short anyways. Maybe someday we can have a pride day for all groups to enjoy with one another. :D

JEDIpartner
06-15-2004, 07:55 AM
Well... you know, that's the thing. The Pride events encourage people who are not part of the the demographic to attend. Support your friends or family members by coming to the parade or the street fairs and what have you.

JON9000
06-15-2004, 03:07 PM
Jon, I was totally going to mention being left-handed when I was sure my "abnormal" comment was going to be taken out of context as a negative statement!

...damn lefties stealing my ideas. ;)


[/size]
Ha ha. In case you did not know, "sinister" is the latin word for left handed! We're always stealing ideas. Da Vinci never had an original thought in his life! :Pirate:

stillakid
06-15-2004, 03:17 PM
Well... you know, that's the thing. The Pride events encourage people who are not part of the the demographic to attend. Support your friends or family members by coming to the parade or the street fairs and what have you.


I'm not saying this to be facetious, but when you do that, the automatic assumption is that you're gay. Now maybe someone might suggest that this shouldn't be a big deal, but being called gay (or any of the other labels) for a straight guy is tantamount to being called a pu**y or worse. Yeah, sure, we shouldn't really concern ourselves with the way small minded people think, but the reality is that in this world, you have to. Standing up for an issue you believe in is one thing. Surviving with the consequences is another, I don't care what the issue is. How being labeled as a homosexual when you're not could affect your life (personally/professionally) is open for debate, but there's no denying that any kind of judgment about a person does affect those aspects of life, deserved or not.

I suppose the hypothetical situation would be for a straight guy to show up at a Pride march in support of friends or family and he winds up on the 6 o'clock news that night in a quick B-roll shot. Meanwhile, his co-worker or boss (who has always secretly wondered about this guy's orientation) connects dots that aren't there and starts the rumor mill. Now, because of litigation in this day and age, nobody is going to come right out and ask our guy if he really is gay, but the assumption and judgment is now floating out there. Now, even if our guy does manage to land a date with the hottest chick in the neighborhood, all his co-workers and friends will just assume that he's covering and hasn't come out of the closet yet. In the end, if the truth came out, yeah, they'd all look like idiots maybe, but maybe not and by that time, it might not matter anymore. Your reputation is tarnished because one guy made an assumption and get everyone thinking. And those kinds of judgments are bound to affect a person in every aspect of life whether you like it or not. I suppose this is where martyrs come from. :smoker:

JEDIpartner
06-15-2004, 09:05 PM
Well... all I have to say is... the more people who come forward as "friends", the less that sort of stigma will linger. Don't be a coward. Be a hero. :)

stillakid
06-16-2004, 04:09 AM
Well... all I have to say is... the more people who come forward as "friends", the less that sort of stigma will linger. Don't be a coward. Be a hero. :)


I don't call it being a "coward." I call it being pragmatic. But I suppose it's easy to call someone a coward when you have no one else to be responsible for in life (ie, young children, a wife, a sick mother, etc.) Being a "hero" looks great on paper until the people that really depend upon you can't count on you to be there for them.

I've personally never seen the benefit in any march or parade. Whoo hoo, they raise awareness for the 20 seconds that they're mentioned on the 6 o'clock news. Anyone who cares, of course, will remember it for a few hours or days afterwards, but for those that the "message" is supposed to reach (and change their behavior or way of thinking), those "events" are meaningless. You're preaching to the choir and that's about it. Those who oppose you will look upon the event with scorn. Those that support you will smile. Those in the middle? Well, unless a march attains high numbers like some of the more important ones we saw for Vietnam, then it's a drop in the bucket at most. In the meantime, the "support" you ask for could potentially damage someone's career and subsequently put their own families in financial and/or marital jeopardy. And for what? Fleeting "awareness" by people who already support the cause? I don't get it. The only benefit I can figure is that it would make the principal participants of the event feel good about themselves, but it wouldn't really alter public policy (unless, again, if you had a million gayman march, then maybe...).

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 06:03 AM
OMG, for once I actually sorta almost agree with stillakid. I don't want you to take offence to this JP, because this doesn't apply only to homosexuals, but why do you care what other people think of what you do? I mean, why the need for a parade to show everybody stuff that really isn't any of their business anyways? That's my main problem with these parades and marches people have for stuff. If you don't care who knows it, why demonstrate it to people who probably don't care anyways. Sure, some people do, and will either love it or hate it, but the parade aint gonna change anything IMO.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 09:08 AM
Saint Patrick's Day Parade, Feast of the Assumption/Little Italy Parade, Irish/American Parade, German/American Parade... I dunno... the list kinda goes on.

It's more of a celebration... not a demonstration. I think people are missing that point. It's a celebration of diversity not just in the gay community but in the world as a whole.

Anyhow... not to say this is EXACTLY the same thing... but you're probably right. I'm sure there were Germans who got persecuted for their associations with the Jews during that whole unfortunate period of history. *shrugs*

Also... I would think that if you were being supportive chances are pretty good that your wife or girlfriend would be of the same mindset. Wouldn't you want your children to be raised to be open-mided as well? I've seen plenty of heterosexual families there. *shrug*

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 10:48 AM
Anyhow... not to say this is EXACTLY the same thing... but you're probably right. I'm sure there were Germans who got persecuted for their associations with the Jews during that whole unfortunate period of history. *shrugs*

It's not really fair to compare what homosexuals are going through in America now to what the Jews went through in Nazi Germany. Homosexuals aren't being systematically exterminated here in the US. In fact, from what I can see on the news, aside from the whole gay marriage issue (which I won't touch on), I don't think that homosexuals are missing any rights compared to any other American. I know some get bullied and beat up in high school, but then a lot more heterosexual kids go through the same thing everyday. And I don't think getting accepted into mainstream society (aka "conformity") is really an inalienable right. Freedom of Speech is another possible issue, but it seems that the only people having their Freedom of Speech taken away are the ones who don't agree with the Gay Rights movement.

I'm not trying to insult anyone or start a fight, I just want to know if there is something I'm not aware of here?

Dave_Cameron
06-16-2004, 11:34 AM
I've been reading this thread for the last couple of days and was pretty passive about it all until now. Gays do not have the same rights as anyone else in this country. If one's life partner is admitted to the hospital, the other cannot enter the room because he or she is not a blood relative. They pay taxes the same as everyone else but cannot reap the same tax benefits as heterosexual partners in a household. There are also none of the same property rights (unless legally named) in the event one person dies.

To say "If I am seen at a gay event, people will think I'm gay" is one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time. If you are afraid of your "reputation" or about your marriage (wouldn't your wife know if you have shared gay friends?) or about employment situation (oh- that sounds like gays can be subject to discrimination and termination, doesn't it?) perhaps you need to take a look at how you can make a difference by helping people form new and educated opinions rather than the ridiculous, closed-minded opinions that have permeated through American ignorance and bravado.

Barada, JP wasn't saying that what is happening to gays in our country is what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany. What he said was that the Germans who associated with the Jews were automatically guilty by association- no questions asked. That's basically the same thing that was implied by Stilla's and Bosskman's statements. Just be thankful that the ignorance in America doesn't lead to death as it did in Nazi Germany.

You're alright JP. I know I have no issues about coming to a Pride event with my son and girlfriend or going into a gay club with my girlfriend if one of my gay friends invited me.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:11 PM
Interesting that a thread I started as a positive thing has gotten so angry...

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:13 PM
You're alright JP. I know I have no issues about coming to a Pride event with my son and girlfriend or going into a gay club with my girlfriend if one of my gay friends invited me.
Thanks Dave! BTW... we need to keep this apolitical as we don't want to be closed down for ignoring the long-standing rules.

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 12:13 PM
I've been reading this thread for the last couple of days and was pretty passive about it all until now. Gays do not have the same rights as anyone else in this country. If one's life partner is admitted to the hospital, the other cannot enter the room because he or she is not a blood relative. They pay taxes the same as everyone else but cannot reap the same tax benefits as heterosexual partners in a household. There are also none of the same property rights (unless legally named) in the event one person dies.

To say "If I am seen at a gay event, people will think I'm gay" is one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time. If you are afraid of your "reputation" or about your marriage (wouldn't your wife know if you have shared gay friends?) or about employment situation (oh- that sounds like gays can be subject to discrimination and termination, doesn't it?) perhaps you need to take a look at how you can make a difference by helping people form new and educated opinions rather than the ridiculous, closed-minded opinions that have permeated through American ignorance and bravado.

Barada, JP wasn't saying that what is happening to gays in our country is what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany. What he said was that the Germans who associated with the Jews were automatically guilty by association- no questions asked. That's basically the same thing that was implied by Stilla's and Bosskman's statements. Just be thankful that the ignorance in America doesn't lead to death as it did in Nazi Germany.

You're alright JP. I know I have no issues about coming to a Pride event with my son and girlfriend or going into a gay club with my girlfriend if one of my gay friends invited me.

I know Gay Marriage is the primary issue for the gay community now, and your points are part of that issue. I'm just wondering if there is anything IN ADDITION to that one, aside from social acceptance which you cannot force upon people (the recent attempts to label speaking out against the Gay Rights movement as "hate speech" is probably the most blatant example of stripping people of their rights in order to force them to like someone else).

I understand what you're saying about JP's comment about Nazi Germany, I just wanted to make sure we kept some perspective on this issue. Although 'guilt by association' is a big problem here. Not even the African-Americans have suffered as much as Jewish people have because of their ethnicity (in the whole picture of human history, not just in the US).

Just to clarify my position, I don't hate homosexual people or believe they are guilty of some special unforgivable crime. I've known gay people in the military and I never looked down on them or felt threatened by them, they're human beings just like everyone else. I'm just very skeptical of the "persecution" they claim to be going through, when it SEEMS to me that they are actually getting special treatment.

If I'm wrong then I would like to know why.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 12:16 PM
Also... I would think that if you were being supportive chances are pretty good that your wife or girlfriend would be of the same mindset. Wouldn't you want your children to be raised to be open-mided as well? I've seen plenty of heterosexual families there. *shrug*

Who ever said I'm not open-minded? Just because I wouldn't want to join in the "celebration" of the way someone wants to have sex makes me a coward? Uh, yeah, right. Will you come to my parade when I want to celebrate the next time I get some?

I suppose the point is, why do I have to have a public display to prove I'm open-minded? You're suggesting that anyone who refuses to show up to your "celebration" is not only close-minded, but also a coward. That's being at least as judgmental as those who would rather see "your kind" go away.

I've been reading this thread for the last couple of days and was pretty passive about it all until now. Gays do not have the same rights as anyone else in this country. If one's life partner is admitted to the hospital, the other cannot enter the room because he or she is not a blood relative. They pay taxes the same as everyone else but cannot reap the same tax benefits as heterosexual partners in a household. There are also none of the same property rights (unless legally named) in the event one person dies.
This is treading dangerously close to the forbidden political arena, so I'll keep the response brief and intentionally incomplete. The underlying question that has recently been raised anyway is "what is marriage for?" anyway? That answer has been changed all throughout our long history of human society so there is no one clear response. I personally see no benefit to it unless there are children involved in order to give them the most stable environment possible. Otherwise, in most cases, marriage is merely a business arrangement in which the female is permitted to take half of everything in the case of the divorce.


To say "If I am seen at a gay event, people will think I'm gay" is one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time.

Barada, JP wasn't saying that what is happening to gays in our country is what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany. What he said was that the Germans who associated with the Jews were automatically guilty by association- no questions asked. That's basically the same thing that was implied by Stilla's and Bosskman's statements. Just be thankful that the ignorance in America doesn't lead to death as it did in Nazi Germany.
Hold on there chief. In one breath you call my statement "ignorant," yet you manage to agree that it is a viable reality just one paragraph later. I deign to speak for you, but it seems that you don't really see it as ignorant so much as "unpleasant." I never said anything about liking the reality that we live with or saying I agree with it, I just brought up the distinct possibilities and ramifications of attending these so-called Celebrations. If the worst that happens is that somebody can't get a free ride on their "partner's" health insurance or can't enter a hospital room, then their life isn't really all that bad to begin with. As far as the insurance goes, I believe that the point of allowing a spouse to hitch a ride is because (most of the time) the female isn't out in the work force and usually when that happens, there are children involved. Without that ability to include the rest of the family on the insurance, it would force the wife and the kids to go out and get their own jobs to qualify for their own insurance. In this "partner" arrangement, again, in most cases I don't think you're going to see a lot of "man-wives" staying at home to dust and take care of the kids. Why should this hypothetical guy be allowed to freeload off some company just because he wants to play house?

You're claim that this statement was "ignorant" was in fact the same.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:20 PM
If you are afraid of your...employment situation (oh- that sounds like gays can be subject to discrimination and termination, doesn't it?).
There is also housing discrimination. I've known people who were denied rental in a less costly apartment because of sexual orientation. The business manager seemed nervous when intervieing them about the unit and kept looking at them sideways. She even made an off-hand comment about how they've never had a gay couple in the building and that if everything panned out they would be the first. They ended up getting a unit in an appartment that was about $150/month more without jumping through hoops.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:23 PM
Will you come to my parade when I want to celebrate the next time I get some?
:confused:

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 12:29 PM
Interesting that a thread I started as a positive thing has gotten so angry...

I'm not trying to be negative or angry, I'm just looking for some clarification on some questions I have. I'm asking because I feel as if there is some larger issue that I am missing here. Isn't the point of Pride Month to get people interested enough to ask questions and seek understanding not hatred?

Dave Cameron, I don't think labelling anyone who is even slightly skeptical of the issue as 'close-minded' is productive. In fact, your response to stillakid's questions is the most closed-minded post in this thread so far.

El Chuxter
06-16-2004, 12:31 PM
There is also housing discrimination. I've known people who were denied rental in a less costly apartment because of sexual orientation. The business manager seemed nervous when intervieing them about the unit and kept looking at them sideways. She even made an off-hand comment about how they've never had a gay couple in the building and that if everything panned out they would be the first. They ended up getting a unit in an appartment that was about $150/month more without jumping through hoops.

Jeez, that's disgusting. I know there's not yet equality under the law regardless of sexual orientation, but I thought that was prohibited by the Fair Housing Act?

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:41 PM
Yeah... unfortunately there are plenty of landlords who get away with that and also not allowing people of colour rent. It all comes out in the wash when certain individuals decide to pursue these things in court. The landlords claim it's something about credit, usually. The problem is that those reports are so easily obtainable and when it is shown that people DON'T have the alleged credit problems or what have you, the original arguement is pushed through and the court rules in favour of the potential renter. My step-brother has taken a couple cases like that where some landlords didn't want to rent to middle-eastern ethnics after 9/11/2001. The people I knew didn't bother pursuing it because it was just more trouble than it was worth.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 12:42 PM
:confused:

What I was asking was, how much "support" can I expect from others when I throw my own "Celebration" for the way I choose to live my sexual life? Will you come to my parade the next time I get laid? That's essentially what this is all about. You want the rest of the world to be proud that some people choose to have sex with members of the same sex. Like I've said before, I personally could care less what someone else does. That's their choice, but to publicly "celebrate" such a thing is odd, isn't it? Afterall, you pointed out that these events aren't "political" at all. They are just "celebrations" not trying to prove anything? Right? So if that's the case, I want a parade of my own to celebrate my heterosexuality and I want everyone to come celebrate with me!*


*Okay, so how far do you think I'd get in my planning (shutting down streets, etc) before I'd get accused of being "insensitive" to the "very real" plight of homosexuals with my smarta_s parade?

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 12:43 PM
Squeaky wheel gets the grease...?

stillakid
06-16-2004, 12:46 PM
I'm not even going to answer that. :rolleyes:


I didn't think you would. Now the only thing left to do is sit back and wait for Dave_Cameron to arrive and call me ignorant for asking such a question. :D


But I don't let people off that easy. :D Please answer the fundamental question that you raised. Are these parades "political" marches or are they just "celebrations"?

stillakid
06-16-2004, 12:47 PM
Squeaky wheel gets the grease...?

So it's "political" then and not a "celebration"?

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 01:15 PM
No... I think it's more of a social thing. I think it's like this... it's like a "notice who we are" thing. We are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, neighbours, co-workers, friends and all these other things. We are just as diverse as the world is diverse. We want to break down the social barriers and celebrate our oneness with the world and the uniqueness of ourselves.

Did you ever read/see "The Color Purple"? There is a line in the text which reads something to the effect of... (two of the characters looking out across a field of purple flowers) God made the colour purple to be noticed. He made it so it would stand out and if you don't notice it, it ****es Him off. It's like all of us. We all just want to be noticed and we all just want to be loved because that is what He would want for us.

Even removing the religious aspect of it, "We all just want to be noticed and just all want to be loved". I think as a gay man, it really makes me sad to see ALL sorts of exclusion due to ignorance. Maybe I am just more sensitive to that. I was raised by an Asian mother in a predominantly white area during the 1970s. We didn't even get our first African-American student until sometime until 1981. I was harassed mercilessly by the kids for having an Asian mom... even though I didn't really look the slightest bit Asian. it was difficult. I think that I became more aware of these things and how easily people could be crushed by hate and exclusion.

I still see people who try to avoid handicapped individuals as if they are going to catch something by rubbing up against them. Like they'll wake up the next morning and be all twisted up and not "normal". Then again... what is "normal"? It's all just a state of mind, isn't it?

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 02:07 PM
Anybody can be a victim of discrimination. In fact, I think everyone has at one point or another. Most of it is not ignorance or bigotry, it's simply bullying. Bullies don't need an excuse, because they'll find a reason no matter how small. When I was in school, I was picked on because: I wore glasses, my dad was a minister, my mom was epileptic, people thought I was Mexican (until they discovered I was Jewish, then I was picked on for being Jewish), because I sucked at sports.... and the list goes on.

In the military, guys thought I was gay since I rarely drank alcohol, had never tried drugs and didn't try to sleep with every woman I saw. So I had to live with that stigma and all the harrassment that went along with it for 10 years. It wasn't any fun, but I learned to develop a thick skin and let people think what they wanted to think.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 02:22 PM
In the military, guys thought I was gay since I rarely drank alcohol, had never tried drugs...
Funny that a large amount of gay men drink regularly and take drugs to "feel better" about themselves. :rolleyes: Obviously, they have no clue. lol

And as far as having to develop a thick skin... That's fine. I know I have. The point is, why should you have to? People need to stop being ignorant about such things and be more enlightened, less phobic and more tolerant and accepting. The moment they become the minority, they lose their voice. Sure... it may take generations... but again, lead the way.

JON9000
06-16-2004, 03:05 PM
Yeah... unfortunately there are plenty of landlords who get away with that and also not allowing people of colour rent. It all comes out in the wash when certain individuals decide to pursue these things in court. The landlords claim it's something about credit, usually. The problem is that those reports are so easily obtainable and when it is shown that people DON'T have the alleged credit problems or what have you, the original arguement is pushed through and the court rules in favour of the potential renter. My step-brother has taken a couple cases like that where some landlords didn't want to rent to middle-eastern ethnics after 9/11/2001. The people I knew didn't bother pursuing it because it was just more trouble than it was worth.
I am fairly certain that sexual orientation is not a protected class under the Fair Housing Act. If so, landlords are within their rights to deny housing to homosexuals. Unfortunately, the law does not recognize sexual orientation as a protected class in most other areas as well.

This is where I shut up and refrain from going political. All I can say is I think progress is slowly being made.

Deoxyribonucleic
06-16-2004, 04:17 PM
I'm a lesbian and I LOVE Kristanna Lokken!

Wooooohoooooooooooooooooo!

There, now you all know and now I can freely talk about her and all her hotness ;)

I also had a major crush on Princess Leia when I was a kid...that's how I knew something was different teehee ;) Just like all you guys, I have that lovely, lovely Unleashed Leia displayed RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE so I see her everyday, I also have a big a**, bigger than life stand-up of the TX in "FLESH" mode right by my bed, OH YEAH!

I love women and I'm proud of it. I mean come on, two good looking women kissing...as I've said before, is there ANY problem in the world that can't solve?? (except for you gay guys ;) hehe)

I'm also pretty "girly" myself, I wear makeup, dress "pretty" for work, and "hot" for going out. I paint my fingernails and toenails, I get waxed and shave my legs and armpits daily ;) (I just don't know what to do about this mustache? lol j/k) but I also have a tomboy side to me...having my room look like a fifteen year old boy's is one of them.

As alot of straight folk, I don't understand some things about some gay folk myself...like why a woman wants to look like a man and then another woman who supposedly likes women, wants to be with someone who looks like a man...very confusing to me, but whatever floats yer boat, serioulsy :) I myself do not take part in gay pride parades, being a lesbian is probably one of the last things on my list that concerns me, it's just who I am and there's no changing it and so I don't even think about it. One of my favorite things to do is hanging out with my bestest straight male friends (I have MANY) and talk about girls WOOHOOOOOO! And they love doing it with me because I can give them a perspective of being a girl that they don't have...it's awesome! I also love all of my straight girlfriends and never once has any one of them been "disgusted" by me or who I sleep with, they even love talking about it too, so funny!

And I want to give a very special shout out to JEDIpartnr for starting this thread, I gotta lotta love for ya... if only we were straight baby, we could date ;) A special shout out to those guys and gals on this board I love dearly, you know who you are :) And a special shout out to all that have taken part in this and expressed themselves truthfully, whether you approve, disapprove or don't care. I don't give a flying * either...I'm glad to be who I am and I'm glad to know all of those on this board that I do, you guys are all great, even you BigB, that you say things I'd love to strangle you for sometimes only makes you and me that much more human, and I'm sure we say things that make you feel the same ;) I think it's good to get this stuff out in the open and so far, it isn't TOO bad, but hopefully it'll stay that way so we can all discuss this and learn from it, rather than end up hating each other or fighting over something that CANNOT BE CONTROLLED!

I've said my peace and I feel great!

ps. Kristanna Lokken is a hottie hot hot! :kiss:

edit: I just wanted to add something here about the beauty of differences, excepting them and laughing at the ignorance surrounding them...

my bestfriend in the whole wide world (she's my big sister, second mama and bestfriend all rolled into one) calls me "stupid lesbian" all the time. In turn I call her "terrorist" all the time (she's Iranian) and we sit there and laugh and laugh until our sides split open. And that, to me, is what it's all about; being able to make fun of yourself, make fun of stupid stereotypes, and just laugh it all away with the people you love. I mean come on, who'd a thunk a white lesbian and a straight Iranian would be best friends....and that's what's wrong...society wouldn't even dream of that combo, yet here it is and I'd give my life for this person without thought! Had I been an ignoramus, I'd be missing out on one of the funniest, most caring and amazing people I've ever met!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-16-2004, 05:11 PM
I think the whole "gathering of similar people" thing is just like a Star Wars convention. I mean, gay people get together and have a parade or whatever else they do, in the same way we Star Wars fans get together for Star Wars. It feels good to be around other people who like the same things you do. And that's kinda what I think JP was trying to say (maybe?). Well, it makes sense to me, at least.

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 05:29 PM
Here's something else: You don't have to accept everything about everybody else in order to be their freind. I have all kinds of freinds that do stuff that I think is wrong, or wouldn't do myself and I'm still their freind and would take a bullet for them in a second. Some of my freinds have sex with people of the same sex. Do I like it? No. But I'm still their freind. I don't like it when they fornicate with members of the opposite sex either but it's their choice to make not mine. Some of my freinds lie and cheat and steal, but if I stopped being their freind for some stupid reason like that I'd be worse than them. About the discrimination issue, I think EVERYBODY is discriminated against by someone in their life. I'm a white male but if you think I just waltz through life and am accepted by everybody and never have to struggle through anything you're on crack. I've been due for promotion in the militia for 3 years now but somebody backstabbed me a while ago and I'm still feeling the blade now. That's the way life is. Sometimes people are gonna hate you for stupid reasons. There is nothing you can do about it. Throwing it in their face aint gonna help matters much either. It would get them angry but is it really worth it. It's up to you I suppose. Honestly I think homosexual parades make about as much sense as a mastubation parade would. That will probably get this thread closed and if it does I'm sorry.

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 05:31 PM
Don't anybody take my above post as angry. It isn't.

bigbarada
06-16-2004, 05:46 PM
Here's something else: You don't have to accept everything about everybody else in order to be their freind. I have all kinds of freinds that do stuff that I think is wrong, or wouldn't do myself and I'm still their freind and would take a bullet for them in a second. Some of my freinds have sex with people of the same sex. Do I like it? No. But I'm still their freind. I don't like it when they fornicate with members of the opposite sex either but it's their choice to make not mine. Some of my freinds lie and cheat and steal, but if I stopped being their freind for some stupid reason like that I'd be worse than them. About the discrimination issue, I think EVERYBODY is discriminated against by someone in their life. I'm a white male but if you think I just waltz through life and am accepted by everybody and never have to struggle through anything you're on crack. I've been due for promotion in the militia for 3 years now but somebody backstabbed me a while ago and I'm still feeling the blade now. That's the way life is. Sometimes people are gonna hate you for stupid reasons. There is nothing you can do about it. Throwing it in their face aint gonna help matters much either. It would get them angry but is it really worth it. It's up to you I suppose. Honestly I think homosexual parades make about as much sense as a mastubation parade would. That will probably get this thread closed and if it does I'm sorry.

You're a heterosexual, white male which means you're part of the most evil group of people on the face of the Earth! :rolleyes: Or at least that's how the PC police would have us all think. I think it was Isaac Asimov (or Ray Bradbury?) who said that Political Correctness is the worst form of slavery since it even restricts how people are allowed to think. As much as I dislike it, bigotry is protected by the US Constitution. If I want to dislike someone for ANY reason (not saying that I do) then I am perfectly within my rights as an American to do so. I hope that never changes anytime soon, since many of our other freedoms are hinged upon this.

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 06:01 PM
Damn right! Even though I'm not an american. I don't think there is any such thing as "rights". It's all a bunch of political gibberish. I don't like a lot of people, but it's not because they're they belong to some group that is listed in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (sexual orientation is in there BTW) its because they're jerks. JP, other guy and lesbian (don't wanna even try to spell "deo&^%###%") are fellow SW collectors and that's why I like them (or at least what I know of them from here). Their sexual activities or leanings don't even factor into the equation. If we can swap info that helps each other out with the hobby, why is their info any less valuable than anyone else's. See what I'm saying here? Yeah we go off on tangents like these "General discussion topics" which get shut down from all the arguing but we're all SW collectors here and it's something we have in common.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 06:24 PM
Then again... what is "normal"? It's all just a state of mind, isn't it?


No, I don't think so. "Normal" is pretty easy to figure out actually. As stated previously, biologically it makes little sense for any species to churn out members who are attracted sexually to members of the same gender. It serves no biological purpose. The parts don't go together. It's about as useful in practical terms as an extension cord with the same "plug" on both ends. Of course, this applies quite specifically to this issue of sexuality which is why the consistent comparisons to race don't really work in the least.

Bosskman
06-16-2004, 06:31 PM
JP don't waste your fingertips agruing with stillakid. I've done it and look what happened to me: I've realised that I'm a moron and everything I ever thought was true is wrong. If only stillakid were absolute ruler of the world. He's set thing right, yes my precious he would.

stillakid
06-16-2004, 07:00 PM
JP don't waste your fingertips agruing with stillakid. I've done it and look what happened to me: I've realised that I'm a moron and everything I ever thought was true is wrong. If only stillakid were absolute ruler of the world. He's set thing right, yes my precious he would.


:D You make me laugh. I don't try to prove anyone wrong. Rather, if I can jumpstart the "thinking" process a little bit, I feel I've contributed to society. But if you truly feel as if you're wrong, then so be it.

By the way, what does "He's set thing right" mean? It doesn't make sense.

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 09:10 PM
I think the whole "gathering of similar people" thing is just like a Star Wars convention. I mean, gay people get together and have a parade or whatever else they do, in the same way we Star Wars fans get together for Star Wars. It feels good to be around other people who like the same things you do. And that's kinda what I think JP was trying to say (maybe?). Well, it makes sense to me, at least.
That's definitely a part of it! :)

JEDIpartner
06-16-2004, 09:15 PM
As stated previously, biologically it makes little sense for any species to churn out members who are attracted sexually to members of the same gender. It serves no biological purpose.
Oh... but science has already proved that it does. They have done on animal life studies for decades and they have seen evidence of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom. Apparently you haven't watched enough PBS, Discovery Channel or Animal Planet. ;)

InsaneJediGirl
06-17-2004, 12:01 AM
Getting back to why the thread was started,(and I'll stay away from the Political issues here),I hope every gay and lesbian member on SSG has a good 'Pride Month' and a all around good year :)

stillakid
06-17-2004, 12:08 AM
Oh... but science has already proved that it does. They have done on animal life studies for decades and they have seen evidence of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom. Apparently you haven't watched enough PBS, Discovery Channel or Animal Planet. ;)


I'm not arguing that at all. I know that it exists. I suppose the question is why does it when it serves no biological purpose? I'm not expecting anyone to have the answer to that one. I suppose we'll have to wait til the next plane of existence when we can ask the Big Guy. :D

In the meantime, to each his/her own. :classic:

Deoxyribonucleic
06-17-2004, 03:29 AM
this thread is killin' me, as in "with laughter"

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

JEDIpartner
06-17-2004, 09:08 AM
As for me and Pride events... just for the record, I usually don't attend them. My partner and I are going this year because we have a newly "out" friend and it's sort of a rite of passage, I think. To feel a part of something... a christening. Anyhow, we're also volunteering to work a shift for the Ohio voter registration sign-ups.

p.s. - Much love to you Deoxy!!!!

2-1B
06-17-2004, 01:31 PM
In the military, guys thought I was gay since I rarely drank alcohol, had never tried drugs and didn't try to sleep with every woman I saw.

They didn't see all that porno you had laying around ? :D

Deoxyribonucleic
06-17-2004, 02:08 PM
They didn't see all that porno you had laying around ? :D

that I supplied him with :sur:

teehee ;)

JEDIpartner
06-17-2004, 02:18 PM
Pusher woman! :eek:

:D

Jargo
06-17-2004, 02:25 PM
Oh lordy it's the science versus nature debate again. get over it. live with the fact that everyone is different in some ways and just get on with your lives people. we all breathe we all bleed we all eat and speak and sleep and find some way of attaining sexual gratification. It doesn't matter how that is achieved unless it cause physical or mental harm to an individual. but please for the love of baby cheeses tell me why the freellin heck everyone always chooses to concentrate on the physical side of being gay. the sexual side. when 99 percent of what it's all about is mental and emotional. same as it is with straight peeple. attraction is a chemical thing, olfactory senses combined with an aestheticly appealing form. mixed with an emotional response to stimuli and an instinctual characacter assesment. where you put what during private intimate moments has no bearing on anything. in actual fact there is more of the putting what where in straight relationships than there is in gay ones so shove that in your pipe and smoke it. as they say.

Happy pride month one and all, fly the flag boys and girls. fly the flag.

Deoxyribonucleic
06-17-2004, 02:36 PM
but please for the love of baby cheeses tell me why the freellin heck everyone always chooses to concentrate on the physical side of being gay. the sexual side. when 99 percent of what it's all about is mental and emotional. same as it is with straight peeple. attraction is a chemical thing, olfactory senses combined with an aestheticly appealing form. mixed with an emotional response to stimuli and an instinctual characacter assesment. where you put what during private intimate moments has no bearing on anything.

Can we make this into a bumper sticker please! Sure it would be a big one, but it is so perfect!

A billboard would be good too ;)

Deoxyribonucleic
06-17-2004, 02:37 PM
Pusher woman! :eek:

:D

Always willing to supply the needy :D

Even if I have to PUSH it on 'em lol

JEDIpartner
06-17-2004, 04:10 PM
Bloody hell, mate! I was wondering when you were going to show up! Nick of time, there Jargo! You've been missed. I hope things are well with you.

Big hugs...

Yeah, yeah... Deoxy. I think you might be more apt to DROP it on them like a load of bricks rather than push it... ;)

derek
06-17-2004, 04:30 PM
everyone please do your part to keep this thread free of politics and personal attacks, as we've been getting complaints about it.

don't make me get Dar Argol in here with his blue "theed closed" pen! lol

Jargo
06-17-2004, 07:41 PM
do sexual politics count?

hiya Dale dumplin'. was just passing through on one of my rare visits and couldn't let this thread go un-Jargo'ed. :p

yahoo me if you get a bit of free time chuck. ;)

JEDIpartner
06-18-2004, 09:49 AM
I will have to do that!!!

JEDIpartner
06-21-2004, 03:48 PM
I attended Pride this weekend and it was a very nice event. My newly out friend, Stacy, was thrilled to find others with whom she shared a common thread. The weather was perfect and attendance was up. Even the religious fanatics who think that God hates gays were smaller in numbers and pretty much ignored by everyone.

I may have scored another weekly music gig by running into someone with whom I am acquainted. We got people registered to vote and signed up on a petition to the legislators letting them know that legislation based on exclusion will NOT sit well with the consitituency.

Well done Cleveland!!!

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
06-22-2004, 12:01 AM
I've been pleased reading the comments that I have seen. This topic has a tendency to bring out heated political discussions as well rude and snide comments in some people but all arguments have been carried in a dignified way.

I am not going to go into the 'nature vs. nuture' debate but it seems to me that the tendency for homosexuals to be attracted to the same sex has been with them since as long as they can remember. It wasn't a decision they made at a crossroads in their life, that they all of a suddenly decided they love men or women, but the only conscience choice that some will need to make is to whether they will have to come out publically with their sexuality, or hide their inhibitions for fear of shame and reprisals.

Just a little tidbit on why June is gay-pride month, 35 years ago, around this very day, a dive bar in Greenwich Village called Stonewall was raided by police. This was not anything new, since gay bars were routinely raided during that time (if a bar's clientel catered to gays who engaged each other at close range albeit dancing or holding, it could lose it's liquor license). But the weather that day had beem hot, it was a Friday night, and people were not happy being kicked out into the street during the peak party hours. Couple that with the cops acrimonious attitude toward the gays, and you had an unruly crowd.

While cops were inside the bar, a few angry patrons started throwing beer bottles at the bar. Soon thereafter a riot started, with protestors throwing rocks, coins, parking meters, lighted trash cans, whatever they could have gotten their hands on, at the bar. Police had to barricade themselves up in the bar and wait for back up.

Over the next few nights, the crowds returned to the same site, to protest, riot, shout, as well as sing and dance. My favorite part in reading about the riots was when the drag queens lined up, kicked, danced and then sang reminiscent of a Chorus Line.

The riots left an indellible mark on society. Many gays credit that event to restoring pride to the movement, and more improtantly, giving gays the courage they need to come out of the closet and not be ashamed. Gays had been sick of their treatment by the authorities and by society in general and rebelled in protest, telling people that they were no longer going to take it sitting down. Much of the modern day gay movement can be traced back to that historical night.

JEDIpartner
06-23-2004, 01:50 PM
Thank you for posting that, LBC. I was kinda taking up a lot of space here so I'm happy that you posted that little piece of history for the others to brush up on!

:)

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
06-23-2004, 10:19 PM
Thanks JP, I actually wrote a term paper on the Stonewall Riots, about three years ago, for my 1960's in America class. It ran 14 pages and I ended up getting an -A. Still have it saved on file if anyone would like to peruse it.

BTW, I would not be ashamed to attend or march in a homosexual parade. I know there are organizations out there for straight people that support gay rights, and fight with them on every issue. As stated earlier, the more people behind the cause, gay or straight, the better chance of achieving their goals.

JEDIpartner
06-24-2004, 11:10 AM
I wonder if you can attach it here. It may need to be a .doc file or in a notepad type form.

You rock, man! There needs to be more people like you in the world. "Home of the brave"... right on!

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
06-24-2004, 11:39 AM
Here it is, I rememeber the first 6 pages were awash in red ink (mostly grammatical errors :frus: ) but the last 8 were clean as a whistle.

JEDIpartner
06-24-2004, 12:04 PM
thank you!!!

Tycho
06-24-2004, 03:23 PM
OK, the first controversial thing I might have to say is "I'm not going to read through the 5 pages of this thread that I might have missed." So show "tolerance" and forgive the newbie from a week's worth of reading if by chance I repeat myself or ideas / requests for answers that have been posted before.

Next, while a Democrat and more liberal on economic, environmental, and labor issues, amongst other things, I FEEL socially conservative.

Let me explain how that relates to gay issues.

Gay rights and discrimination issues (from the leftwing point of view) do or do not make sense to me on a case-by-case basis.


Here's what I do think, and I won't take offense if gay members want to argue this:



1) everyone wants love and acceptance. Many people get tired of being lonely or unable to form bonds with other people because they have to fake interests or not completely be themselves around others they want to attract, etc. Being touched erotically is to feed the need for curiosity to be satisfied in a way that is exciting and for natural reasons highly addictive.

2) People's sexual needs for physical intimacy are extremely repressed. I'm using this opportunity to relate to you how much I'd like a one-guy all-girl super-orgy with Victoria Secret's TV models and that it'd feel great if it was acceptable to go to Times' Square and scream out my desires until I got it! (or scream out my desires anyway - especially for the brunette in white lace who comes on TV and says "Sexy is...") Well, you bottle up all that repression and political movements can explode from it.

3) Some people are born different: they are either too masculine or too feminine. The attraction toward the masculine and feminine is still there in gays, I'd guess, but maybe I'm wrong. But the feminine guy is going to be attracted to the more masculine gay guy perhaps. Nah. Perhaps it is also that sometimes, super-feminines of either sex revel in going shopping or in acting like valley-girls with each other and seeing to what extremes they can take it. In any case, those people who are really in the minority are hermaphrodites - people with both sex organs. This is a biological annormality and they have several issues:

a) they don't really want people to know; they feel ashamed
b) they can sometimes make a choice and have some parts medically more developed or removed - so they feel either more male or more female.

"b" lends itself to people who say they are gay and that they were predestined to be - but if those gay people are biologically developed normal, you have to delve more into the brain anatomy that I've seen some discussion of going on here - otherwise it IS a choice. The hermaphrodites don't exactly have one so cut and dry simple.

However, a hermaphrodite that chooses to be a woman and grows facial hair would struggle to attract a man with typically average tastes, and thus feel lonely, isolated, etc. Go back to Reason 1 above And they want intimacy See Reason 2 above but society will not let them marry, be accepted, or share with others the joy they have when they find love. So they need more rights of course.


I need to divide my topics here into 2: marriage and the gay-life choice.


I'll pick marriage first.


Marriage has 2 applications too.

It is religious by one nature. You profess your love for a partner before God and family. It requires you believe in God to be doing this, (or your partner does, etc) and one or both of you want to feel His love and acceptance for the love and acceptance you found on earth. A natural human tendancy to seek validation in a higher power.

So religion being designed as a way of life for the majority, either has to have reforms, or separations for gay and traditional clergy.

If religion is belief, you can't reform traditional churches to believe something different. You can have gay churches which will accept marriage and possibly boast of heterosexual membership as well, so that whole families do not have to be divided during their times of religious belief.

From that instance, you will and won't have gay marriage, it is up to the religious institution and not the state.

I've said it before (this is not a fact but..) If you are Satanic and a high priest with horns on his head runs around you and your beloved in the Church of Satan seven times with a dead cat, reading Kafka backwards, you are married in the eyes of Devil Worshipers from your church (maybe not even another Satanic church will recognize your marriage, but the Catholic church certainly will not). But the dead-cat ceremony might be enough for you and your mate.

Ah - but who and how many will recognize your marriage? Now it becomes the responsibility of the STATE.

Previously, you only sought acceptance - and not all relgions would - nor will they EVER. That is an argument of whether or not we need religion, and what are it's evils and what are its goods. But honestly, you first cared if you and your mate could worship or celebrate your love with your straight family, and be accepted. Otherwise religious marriage is either NOT IMPORTANT TO YOU, or impossible for you to ever win equality with. Sorry. That's life pal!

Now the STATE.

The state recognizes marriage for legal reasons of taxes, inheritance, medical rights, and basically PROPERTY.

I say take the state out of it entirely.

1) no one should be able to beat you up or vandalize you because you are gay or live that way. This is already your right to your sovereign body and protection by the state.

2) eliminate all marriage tax credits. Only adults can marry. If you are an adult, you should take care of yourself no matter what your sexual orientation. There's a word for that: taxpayer versus charity case. Grow up and work, darn it! No gold-digging woman who marries an older man or any homosexual should get tax advantages. It discriminates against those who can't find mates. Tax credits allow people to have stay-at-home partners. I say earn it and pay for it. If you can't make enough to support 2 human beings, make your partner work and help you. I will not support the state helping others take advantage of their working partners, no matter what their sexual orientation. You want your house cleaned and dinner made? Pay your partner, one way or another - wages or their taxes. I don't care which.

Where does tax credit come in? Children under 15 who can't work or full-time students receiving a break. Does being gay have anything to do with it? NO. At least one parent might be biological, thereby we know who gets the tax break. If neither are, and a gay couple chooses to adopt, the process goes forward with one adopting parent, (gays have that right now), and an investigation by the child services as to the living conditions and partnership of the mate (as in any heterosexual adoption) and it can go through just fine, and gay couples can have children. Other things such as artificial pregnancy for lesbians etc. are all fine today anyway - as single mothers can do this.

THE STATE SHOULD NO LONGER RECOGNIZE MARRIAGE OF ANY KIND.

In divorce or custody, regular legal arguments and bargains can be made about child custody or common property. Pre-marital status can help determine that - and that ought to be the end of it.


Meanwhile, with the Boyscouts etc., I agree with common liberal-think, that the government should not subsidize organizations that discriminate. The Scouts can decide where to take it from there on afterwards. But I would grandfather in older campsite leases etc. because they really don't do harm and have weilded successful after-school program traditions. Meanwhile, let the scouts be subjected to civil suits if gays who join can demonstrate real harm being done at locations where events were held on public land. Eventually, a don't-ask-don't-tell thing could work because the Scouts are minors and there is no place for sex being part of the curriculum of those underage. This should eliminate pedophiles from trying in the first place.


Well that can take us back to the gay-life choice.


Less women like collecting Star Wars toys, cheering sports teams, watching war movies.

Less men like shoe-shopping, putting on makeup, pretending to be models, being interested in child development of babies.

Common interests can bond people. I go to the San Diego Star Wars society meetings myself. (there actually were several hot girls there though). But in general, we can be ourselves amongst like-minded individuals. (I admit how many toys I have to all of you all).

GOING BACK TO REASONS 1 and 2 ABOVE:

1) everyone wants love and acceptance. Many people get tired of being lonely or unable to form bonds with other people because they have to fake interests or not completely be themselves around others they want to attract, etc. Being touched erotically is to feed the need for curiosity to be satisfied in a way that is exciting and for natural reasons highly addictive.

2) People's sexual needs for physical intimacy are extremely repressed. Well, you bottle up all that repression and political movements can explode from it.


And I'll add

3) People sometimes revel in expressing their frustrations by being extremely deviant. This feeds their curiousity and their excitement in trying something shocking to "normal people." (I could have sex in a glass elevator with my Victoria Secrets super-model in a mall (like in "Chasing Amy") while everyone could see me getting it on while holding up my Chewbacca Unleashed as if in worship of the Wookiee! No one would understand this, so it'd be all the more exciting - until I got arrested).

4) People give up trying to find this kind of let-everything-free-bonding with the opposite sex.

Because people aren't honest, that is why the divorce rate is so high. I've met so many people on this site who's wives don't understand the SW stuff coming out of the closet. "They weren't like this when they were the football hero in high school?" Or the satisfied "I'm divorced now, so I can have SW all over my living room."

That's also the "I don't make enough money to have a large house and room to do whatever I want, and room to let my wife have her space as well" crowd. Sorry. I'm blunt. Both of you get retrained and get better jobs before you blame your partners and divorce over your repressed desires you have to compromise for each other due to economic limitations.

But your Gay partners do not judge so harshly.

Just like lesbians: the majority I've seen are older, middle-aged, less attractive now with short hair (because that's easier for them) and no man wants them. They were once married, probably had children who are grown, and now they don't want to live alone - and they can't get a guy - they don't have that choice.

So to shout to the world that they hurt, they want love, they want to be accepted, they join a lesbian movement. Very predictable and I truly believe this.

Gay guys? Men are so sexually frustrated (I honestly need a girl 2-3 times a day for full satisfaction of my recreational interests ;) that they give up much younger (they don't get stuck with the child-raising commitment after bad marriages) and if they are young when girls won't put-out, they turn to getting human contact from the easiest thing. Once they feel guilty because of some homosexual experience, it's easier to come out with it and DECIDE they are gay, rather than say they made a mistake. I wonder how many gay guys would have sex with Jennifer Love Hewitt if given the chance to do anything they want with her? (make her shout she loves Star Wars while they're at it). Do gay guys have secret hetero-sexual encounters when they can? I bet they do. "Angie, we can't meet near the gay bar. I don't want my partner Steve to see...." :rolleyes: So these guys join gay movements to express their frustration.

Why can't I have a heterosexual pride demonstration and demand that my needs for a Victoria Secrets Super-orgy be fulfilled for me? Huh? Huh? Huh? (straight guys attending The San Diego Comic Con, don't miss the Vampire Orgy - it's an underground annual event- actually I think gays are welcome as well - I just think I've been too busy there to notice. In any case, it is a lot of fun if you follow me).

In any case, people who are rejected by the opposite sex do have emotional and psychological problems: with their confidence, their sense of self-worth, etc. They flock to gay movements because they find support there. But they don't need to give up on finding a heterosexual partner so easily. And doing that is not so easy as some gay guys here suggested it is. Finding a girlfriend can be very daunting - you get more one night stands or short relationships - or even more often - nothing.

In any case, if you'd feel better about yourself being in a normal heterosexual relationship, because you went to the gym, fixed your body, did whatever, that too is just as healthy as "coming out," because to me that seems like for many people, it is "settling."

People settle way too often, and that is why so many marriages are failing too.

Let's have population control and not involve children. We're just creating more screwed up human beings and further fragmenting the community.

I have to pause now and allow for comments. Then I could clarify whatever people don't understand about my beliefs.

stillakid
06-24-2004, 03:35 PM
2) eliminate all marriage tax credits. Only adults can marry. If you are an adult, you should take care of yourself no matter what your sexual orientation. There's a word for that: taxpayer versus charity case. Grow up and work, darn it! No gold-digging woman who marries an older man or any homosexual should get tax advantages. It discriminates against those who can't find mates. Tax credits allow people to have stay-at-home partners. I say earn it and pay for it. If you can't make enough to support 2 human beings, make your partner work and help you. I will not support the state helping others take advantage of their working partners, no matter what their sexual orientation. You want your house cleaned and dinner made? Pay your partner, one way or another - wages or their taxes. I don't care which.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it is that the tax credit is meant to assist a family financially so that you shouldn't need the other spouse to go out and work. The idea of course being that there are children there that need parenting. The marriage credit should be encouraging a "traditional" family so that you don't have two people out working being too tired to reproduce. The child tax credit is further assistance so that one of the spouses is not required to go outside the home so that the family can keep their heads above water. Given that reasoning, the tax credits should INCREASE significantly given that the amounts clearly aren't enough to offset the rate of inflation vs. what most spouses are able to earn in retail or whatever. To encourage in any way possible the proliferation of a one income home so that the mother (or father) is finanically able to stay at home and be an actual parent would only serve to benefit society. Not everyone has the smarts or access to the higher level incomes and until we start neutering those dumb ugly people, society will continue to falter under the weight of their disadvantaged children who are forced to grow up with the television or gangs as their babysitters.

Tycho
06-24-2004, 03:41 PM
You misunderstood. I allowed for child-tax credits.

I did not allow for gold-digging.

Meanwhile income tax works progressively.

JEDIpartner
06-28-2004, 10:38 AM
Tycho is so anti-tradition... :rolleyes:

droidekas2
06-28-2004, 01:24 PM
Alright for you Dale!! I have so much more respect for you. I loved you before, but now I really respect you. Carry on girlfriend!! :D

"I got my Pride and no body's going to take it away!! Sing it children!!"

We just had our Pride weekend here in Tampa / St.Pete and it more than double the size of last years events. A fabulous time was had by all.

I just stumbled across this post today, so am joining in late, but I just wanted to voice my support for Dale and all the other out boys and girls and everyone in between!! I love you!!!!!

JEDIpartner
06-28-2004, 01:51 PM
How awesome are YOU, Scott? :)

Deoxyribonucleic
06-28-2004, 08:14 PM
say Droidekas, is that avator of yours the "party" ken with the ****ring around his neck, that mattel recalled after they figured out their goofah?


;)

droidekas2
06-28-2004, 10:11 PM
No, it is the "Out and Proud" Billy doll, with all the right equipment. Actually, it is Master Billy, the S+M version. Oh Baby!! He hangs out with my Rebel Doll (based on Tom of Finland men) and my Jeff Stryker doll. Awesome Threesome/

sith_killer_99
02-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Digging up old threads here and realized I had never posted in this one.

I don't understand the whole pride thing, but to each their own.:thumbsup:

Blue2th
02-01-2009, 04:15 AM
Digging up old threads here and realized I had never posted in this one.

I don't understand the whole pride thing, but to each their own.:thumbsup:

Hmm...

Anyways, seems you deserve the Golden Shovel award this week Sith_killer, If it hasn't already been given out to Ceasar yet. :yes:

bobafrett
02-01-2009, 07:46 AM
I haven't read a post by Ceasar in a long time, um a long time.

Blue2th
02-01-2009, 02:35 PM
I haven't read a post by Ceasar in a long time, um a long time.

Sure you have, you just don't know it...


..."take care sir"

JediTricks
02-01-2009, 02:44 PM
Digging up old threads here and realized I had never posted in this one.

I don't understand the whole pride thing, but to each their own.:thumbsup:
It's important to not be ashamed of who one is, especially when one is in a minority and that minority is often told by society to be deeply ashamed of who they are. Everyone who doesn't rape or lust after minors deserves basic human rights, like being able to hold one's head up high.

Blue2th
02-01-2009, 04:27 PM
Sometimes I proudly take "the long view" of things. :cheeky:

sith_killer_99
02-01-2009, 11:23 PM
It's important to not be ashamed of who one is, especially when one is in a minority and that minority is often told by society to be deeply ashamed of who they are. Everyone who doesn't rape or lust after minors deserves basic human rights, like being able to hold one's head up high.

I agree, and I suppose the pride month, along with the parade gives one a sense of that. So to that end I suppose I understand.

I just wish people could feel proud of who they are on a daily basis without the need for some type of a reinforcement mechanism.

I guess until society can learn to be more accepting as a whole people will feel the need for things like this.

I've just never been big on celebrations in general....to include Christmas, New Years, Birthdays, etc. I do celebrate, but mostly for my daughter and wife. To me, the thoughts and feelings behind these type of things should be expressed and shared throughout the year, cherish every moment, love yourself and others everyday.

Slicker
02-02-2009, 12:27 AM
I don't understand the whole pride thing, but to each their own.:thumbsup:It's just like being proud of anything such as your kids or your race or gender. It's not that tough to understand.

sith_killer_99
02-02-2009, 12:51 AM
It's just like being proud of anything such as your kids or your race or gender. It's not that tough to understand.

So when do we celebrate "Heterosexual Adult White Male Pride Month"?

I have no problem with people being proud of who they are, I fully support that.

However, to a certain extent, things like this also serve to divide people and fosters an us/them mentality.

Just be proud of who you are everyday.

Let us be judged by the content of our character, not the color of our skin, or our gender, or even our sexual preferences.

If we must celebrate anything, what is more noble than celebrating the good deeds and character of honest hard working people.

Slicker
02-02-2009, 12:56 AM
So when do we celebrate "Heterosexual Adult White Male Pride Month"?I do hear where you're coming from. It's just like black history month when there's not white history month (because they say the rest of history is about white people :rolleyes: ).

And heterosexuals have Mardi Gras to celebrate. ;)

Mad Slanted Powers
02-02-2009, 01:48 AM
So when do we celebrate "Heterosexual Adult White Male Pride Month"?

I have no problem with people being proud of who they are, I fully support that.

However, to a certain extent, things like this also serve to divide people and fosters an us/them mentality.

Just be proud of who you are everyday.

Let us be judged by the content of our character, not the color of our skin, or our gender, or even our sexual preferences.

If we must celebrate anything, what is more noble than celebrating the good deeds and character of honest hard working people.Exactly. That is why this quote didn't make sense to me:


Here's something else: You don't have to accept everything about everybody else in order to be their freind. I have all kinds of freinds that do stuff that I think is wrong, or wouldn't do myself and I'm still their freind and would take a bullet for them in a second. Some of my freinds have sex with people of the same sex. Do I like it? No. But I'm still their freind. I don't like it when they fornicate with members of the opposite sex either but it's their choice to make not mine. Some of my freinds lie and cheat and steal, but if I stopped being their freind for some stupid reason like that I'd be worse than them.This seems to have taken the non-judgmental thing a bit too far. Lying, cheating and stealing are not traits I want in a friend. Stealing is a crime, and lying and cheating could be in some cases as well. How could I trust someone like that?

For me, I don't think you can compare skin color with sexual orientation. Skin color is a physical trait. Sexual orientation may be something you are born with, but it is an action. You can choose who you want to have sex with, and when you want to do it. Or you can choose to not have sex at all. Maybe I should see if there is a celibacy pride month I can participate in.

Lord Malakite
02-02-2009, 05:33 PM
For me, I don't think you can compare skin color with sexual orientation. Skin color is a physical trait. Sexual orientation may be something you are born with, but it is an action. You can choose who you want to have sex with, and when you want to do it.
I think you are confusing "sexual orientation" with "dating" and "sexual intercourse".

Darth Duranium
02-02-2009, 06:02 PM
It's important to not be ashamed of whom one is, especially when one is in a minority and that minority is often told by society to be deeply ashamed of who they are.


Couldn't have put it better myself... there it is in a nutshell. Straight people don't have to contend with being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation.

I have no issues with Pride Day (or the equivilent) but I do wonder why so many moderate Gay people allow the day to be co-opted by their more "extreme" compatriots... it unfairly gives the whole affair a bad name.

The Toronto Pride Parade usually contains a bunch of flatbed trucks with dudes dancing around wearing only their underpants, along with assorted nudist groups and leather S&M afficianados. It ends up being a freak show, not a bridge to better relations.

All of the gay folks that I know are much less flamboyant and are equally put off by the silliness. They just want to live, love, and be free like everybody else.

Same-sex marriage was a non-issue for most Canadians... it was legalized here without the narrow-minded intolerance we saw in many other places. And so far, there's been no fire and brimstone from a wrathful God...

Mad Slanted Powers
02-02-2009, 07:29 PM
I think you are confusing "sexual orientation" with "dating" and "sexual intercourse".
Well, it is called "sexual" orientation, so it isn't just about who you prefer to hang out with. Most guys would probably prefer to socialize with guys, but they don't want to have sex with them.

2-1B
02-02-2009, 07:39 PM
Maybe I should see if there is a celibacy pride month I can participate in.

The internet is a good place to start.

lol

CaptainSolo1138
02-02-2009, 07:55 PM
The internet is a good place to start.

lol
Does masturbation count against celibacy?

El Chuxter
02-02-2009, 07:55 PM
I celebrate pride month every month! It's awesome!!!!

2-1B
02-02-2009, 08:42 PM
Does masturbation count against celibacy?

Not if your computer keeps quiet about what it's seeing.

Lord Malakite
02-03-2009, 11:48 AM
Well, it is called "sexual" orientation, so it isn't just about who you prefer to hang out with. Most guys would probably prefer to socialize with guys, but they don't want to have sex with them.
Your logic doesn't make any sense though. "Sexual orientation" simply means the gender (in general sense) you are sexually attracted to. A homosexual guy could also prefer to socialize with a group guys, but that doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all of them. A heterosexual guy could prefer to socialize with a group of women, but that also doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all of them. Like I said before, you are confusing intrinsic traits (that are most likely genetic) with things that are actions.

mabudonicus
02-03-2009, 12:26 PM
A heterosexual guy could prefer to socialize with a group of women, but that also doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all of them.

Depends- are they good lookin??
:beard: Iso&Baws

It really does depend

Jargo
02-03-2009, 12:35 PM
I have one wish. That when people discuss 'gay' men and women they stop focusing on the sexual aspect and instead focus on the men and women themselves. as people. with real feelings. and lives beyond sexual activity.

Judge me by where I do or don't put my winky? Or do you judge me based on character and personal interaction with me?

do you judge heterosexual people by their sexual proclivities or domestic setup? Or judge them by their character and personal interaction with them?

fact is that sex, whether straight or gay is quite often of the same - fetish, preference, position. to judge someone on that basis is ridiculous.

Pride is something that stems from that ridiculous viewpoint and the oppresion it has engendered. same as it is with religious people and ethnics and womens liberation and disabilty or any other so called minority. it's about standing up to be counted and recognised and to feel part of a greater community. a spiritually uplifting moment in a life where mostly being treated like an underclass of society is soul destroying.

granted there are factions who jump on the bandwagon and all but pervert the nature of such pride celebrations. the more extreme of whom could perhaps dial it back. sex should not be part of the agenda besides the decriminalisation of same sex partners 'coupling'.

the specifics of such 'couplings' is a separate issue beyond the initial and more important basic right to be with who you want to be with in a non celibate way.

If pride events kept to the basic issues and did what it was originally set up to do then would people have any objections? course they would. people object on principle even if they don't know what the principle is. minorities attack other minorities. the majority attacks all minorities. a minority will fight itself. that's human nature. inbred ignorance and stupidity. what a culture can't assimilate it destroys.

so let's just try and focus on people as people. with the same basic human rights. the same governance. the same responsibilities. liberty, equality.

Darth Jax
02-03-2009, 12:37 PM
well said, jargo.

Lord Malakite
02-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Depends- are they good lookin??
:beard: Iso&Baws

It really does depend
And there we go. Mabs has just proven my point with his very response, albeit in a rather superficial way.

mabudonicus
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
FINE post Jargo, I pretty much feel the same, only with much less eloquence :D

And LM- ya didn't answer my question....
:beard: Iso&Baws

So what, I'm a flaming heterosexual :D

Lord Malakite
02-03-2009, 01:04 PM
And LM- ya didn't answer my question....
:beard: Iso&Baws
Any kind of women's group you want it to be Mabs. All hot, old, blind, or some mixed bag. It was vague to take into account all the possible variables/reasons (be they superficial or not) for a heterosexual guy to not want to have sex with "every woman" they hang out with.

El Chuxter
02-03-2009, 01:47 PM
There is a real difference between "wants to" and "does."

Mad Slanted Powers
02-03-2009, 07:56 PM
Your logic doesn't make any sense though. "Sexual orientation" simply means the gender (in general sense) you are sexually attracted to. A homosexual guy could also prefer to socialize with a group guys, but that doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all of them. A heterosexual guy could prefer to socialize with a group of women, but that also doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all of them. Like I said before, you are confusing intrinsic traits (that are most likely genetic) with things that are actions.And I guess that sort of proves my point. Sexual orientation may be something one is born with, but you still have a choice regarding your actions.


I have one wish. That when people discuss 'gay' men and women they stop focusing on the sexual aspect and instead focus on the men and women themselves. as people. with real feelings. and lives beyond sexual activity. That's kind of hard when the group is defined by who they are sexually attracted to. True, you could say that of heterosexuals, but people don't usually define themselves as that unless they are trying to distinguish themselves as not gay. If the sexual aspect of it isn't important, then you could choose to be with a member of the opposite sex instead.

Jargo
02-03-2009, 08:11 PM
:headwall:

yes, just as ginger haired people can change the colour of their hair....

Mad Slanted Powers
02-03-2009, 08:13 PM
:headwall:

yes, just as ginger haired people can change the colour of their hair....
Yes, with hair dye.

I would consider myself heterosexual, but I've never had sex.

mabudonicus
02-03-2009, 08:52 PM
I would consider myself heterosexual, but I've never had sex.

OK.. is that just a hypothetical?? cos in MY view, someone who has NOTHING TTO DO with ANY kind of sex is the LAST person should be tellingfolks who andwhat to do, is all
:beard: Iso&Baws

PLEASE be hypothetical and thus not having the effect of rendering SO much even more irrelevant than it seemed at the time

Mad Slanted Powers
02-03-2009, 09:16 PM
OK.. is that just a hypothetical?? cos in MY view, someone who has NOTHING TTO DO with ANY kind of sex is the LAST person should be tellingfolks who andwhat to do, is all
:beard: Iso&Baws

PLEASE be hypothetical and thus not having the effect of rendering SO much even more irrelevant than it seemed at the time

It's not hypothetical. And the fact that I have gone this long without it is proof that we need not act on all of our sexual impulses.

Besides, I wasn't telling people what to do. I was agreeing with the point that I believe was made earlier that skin color and sexual orientation aren't exactly comparable things.

mabudonicus
02-03-2009, 09:39 PM
You know, out of respect for the original intent of this thread, I am gonna star a new thing in the Rancor Pit about this, cos someonw saying they haven't had sex for their whole life thinking they can have ANY understanding of sexuality is FAR beyond me and it makes me VERY curious...

Right, that being said, I would like to agree with some others here- Pride is most definitely an all-year thing- the gay people I personally know are not afraid to be known as such, not afraid of life-ending persecution for being known as such, and live their lives to please themselves and those they care about to the best of their ability. Not long ago this would have been unthinkable. There is much to be thankful for, and more still to accomplish. The voices of the hateful and ignorant have been and will continue to be drowned out by the sound of understanding (tolerance is for haters)

:beard: Iso&Baws

I think maybe to celebrate Pride Month, I'm gonna try to become gay- apparently it's possible :D

Qui-Long Gone
02-03-2009, 10:18 PM
I would consider myself heterosexual, but I've never had sex.

So would that make you a noterosexual?

Seriously, that's a good point, how we link sex with hetero or homo. Before I had sex I knew I was 100% grade A hetero....I just was a very unlucky one until I had a bottle of Love Potion #9.

You know, I don't think I've ever heard any one claim to be bi without having had sex......

*things that make you go hmmmm.

Mad Slanted Powers
02-03-2009, 10:35 PM
So would that make you a noterosexual?

Seriously, that's a good point, how we link sex with hetero or homo. Before I had sex I knew I was 100% grade A hetero....I just was a very unlucky one until I had a bottle of Love Potion #9.

You know, I don't think I've ever heard any one claim to be bi without having had sex......

*things that make you go hmmmm.My response to people who say they are bisexual is, "You mean you've had sex twice?"

I think I might be a lesbian in a man's body.

Qui-Long Gone
02-03-2009, 10:39 PM
I think I might be a lesbian in a man's body.


I used to wonder that about myself too because of sharred interest (i.e. bikes and chicks), then I became friends with some lesbians and couldn't stand to drink chi tea, eat soy products, read feminist theory, and watch Buffy reruns.....so I went back to being classical straight.

El Chuxter
02-04-2009, 02:42 PM
The whole "lesbian in a man's body" was really funny the first thirty or so times I heard it in 1992.

And, yes, there are people who know they're bisexual and have never done one or the other. Orientation is a matter of preference, not action. I could go out right now and have sex with every man I see, but it doesn't make me gay. Jargo or JP could only have sex with women and it doesn't make them straight. Big frigging deal. I'm with Jargo; we need to stop focusing on gays, lesbians, straights, and bisexuals based solely on how they act on their physical desires.

Blue2th
02-04-2009, 03:47 PM
Well, my observation is that a person male or female who can stimulate the mind as well as the body mutually is a rare thing indeed. And to get love along with it, even more so.
Yeah there's a lot of babes out there, but the days of trying to cater to the princess are over for me. Got tired of sex being used as a tool or reward for pleasing every whim.
Women wanted their liberation, now it's time to be careful what you wish for you might get it. Be prepared to go dutch. If they aren't as intelligent or stimulating to the mind as well as the body, and pay their own way just as I have all these years I'm sorry, no dollar.

These days there are guys that look just as good as the women out there, and might actually like the things I like....whatever!!!

Qui-Long Gone
02-04-2009, 11:15 PM
The whole "lesbian in a man's body" was really funny the first thirty or so times I heard it in 1992.

And, yes, there are people who know they're bisexual and have never done one or the other. Orientation is a matter of preference, not action. I could go out right now and have sex with every man I see, but it doesn't make me gay. Jargo or JP could only have sex with women and it doesn't make them straight. Big frigging deal. I'm with Jargo; we need to stop focusing on gays, lesbians, straights, and bisexuals based solely on how they act on their physical desires.

People called you a lesbian in the 90s? Probably because you thought you could have sex with men and not be gay....

TeeEye7
02-07-2009, 11:38 PM
I thought this thread was about lions.

Never mind.

Jargo
02-17-2009, 09:21 PM
men lesbians and lions. amounts to the same really. fight, eat, shout, sleep, have sex, shout, eat, poop, fight, sleep.

mabudonicus
02-18-2009, 12:34 AM
Just wanted to report that my attempt to turn gay for Pride month is STILL failing, I thought I could just decide but it seems it isn't that easy, somehows... I have tried every sterotypical "gay" thing I can think of, eaten strictly phallus-shaped foods, stood behind as many men as possible in whatever lines I could find and still nothing

I guess I suck at life :D
:beard: Iso&Baws
Owell, there's still chicks ;)

Mad Slanted Powers
02-18-2009, 01:28 AM
Maybe you're not trying hard enough.

Blue2th
02-18-2009, 04:35 AM
...or hard enough trying? :cheeky:

El Chuxter
02-18-2009, 10:14 AM
I've been listening to a lot of Prince. Not gay yet, but I'm starting to look like Jack Black for some reason, and I have this overwhelming desire to play World of Warcraft and drink Malibu.

Jargo
02-18-2009, 10:29 AM
Omg! Omg! Omg! Omg!

mabudonicus
02-18-2009, 10:33 AM
I've been drinkin Malibu-based drinks with a little umbrella and it's made me wanna hang curtains, don't give in to the urge, Chux
:beard: Iso&Baws
SOyes

Rocketboy
02-18-2009, 10:56 AM
I tried by drinking a Zima and watching Sex and the City.

After one drink and five minutes I came to the definite conclusion that I was straight and being gay isn't a choice.

Jargo
02-18-2009, 11:16 AM
lightweights. :p

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-18-2009, 04:56 PM
I knew I was straight when I realized I liked pooping, but wouldn't want to feel it in reverse.

Jargo
02-18-2009, 05:07 PM
me neither. sounds yucky.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-18-2009, 05:33 PM
Wait so does that mean I'm gay? Now I'm confused.

Jargo
02-18-2009, 07:43 PM
Oh everyone is bisexual dear, just like everyone is an omnivore. Did you not get the orientation pack?

Mad Slanted Powers
02-18-2009, 08:17 PM
Just close your eyes and pretend you're with a hairy woman.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-19-2009, 01:56 AM
Just close your eyes and pretend you're with a hairy woman.
Which means you have sexual fantasies about women, which means you are heterosexual.

And no Jargo I didn't get the orientation pack. I think I was sick that day or something.

El Chuxter
02-19-2009, 02:26 AM
Did they pass it out the same day they snuck those chemicals into the water that made everyone like Spongebob Squarepants and Joss Whedon?

Slicker
02-19-2009, 02:44 AM
Bisexual people are just greedy...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-19-2009, 02:47 AM
Bisexual people are just greedy...
Pick a damn side already, you wishy-washy bastards. :mad:

mark2d2
02-19-2009, 06:07 AM
It's nice to see that for the most part, this thread has been quite civilized.

The whole gay thing is something that I know I've had a tough time dealing with. For some reason I feel like sharing my story as it could lend some interesting perspective. For starters, growing up gay in North Dakota wasn't exactly easy. I fought it, I fought it, I fought all the way. The was 1986. I was a sophomore in highschool.

Then when I realized I was losing the fight. No, that it was lost. I decided to kill myself. My parents and sister were going out of town for a weekend but I couldn't go because I had a debate tournament. This was it! This was my big chance to solve all my problems. I was going to kill myself...

But how? How? I was/am deathly afraid of blood. And my shotgun seemed---too scary---too messy. No. No, I didn't want to do THAT to my parents. So, overdosing seemed the logical solution. Being naive and stupid, with limited access to drugs, I thought I could take a bunch on nytols and it would do the trick. I didn't want anyone to know what I was doing so I drove to four different stores to buy four bottles of the stuff.

Then, with a great flair for the dramatic, this was my big end, after all, I picked up some shrimp and made myself a decadent last supper. Cocktail Shrimp and artichokes and 6 Jello pudding pops. (An odd combo, but my favorite foods...) Then I started drinking. THANK GOD, I started drinking. I didn't really want to do this. I didn't really want to die, but what else was there to do? I couldn't be gay! Nobody was gay! I was going to have a horribly lonely life and then be cast aside if anybody ever found out. So I drank and I drank. Vodka. Lots and lots of vodka. A little ice. It went down easy.

I penned my cryptic and vague note.

"THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU -- ONLY ME."

Truth be told I have no idea of how much I drank. I don't remember how much Vodka was in the bottle when I started, I just don't remember. But it must've been a lot. And then I started taking the pills. (I must've taken all four bottles of pills for they were all empty the next day. I think it was like, what? 80 pills... Maybe "only" 60...) And then I drank and drank, and drank some more on the way to oblivion.

Waking up was slow. Confusing. Everything hurt. Where was I? What was that smell? Was I dead? Was this hell?

No, it wasn't wasn't hell. And I wasn't dead. I was on the floor of my bathroom. And there was vomit everywhere. I mean everywhere. And it was NOT pretty.

I stumbled into the shower and was in there a long, long time.

Staggering out I was shocked that it was nearly 3 p.m. Yikes! My unsuspecting family would be home in a matter of hours. Some how I got everything cleaned up. Thank god most of the mess was in the bathroom on the tile floor... But the bed was a disaster too. I had gone to bed? Really? Huh. Interesting... So much was just gone. Total black out. Anyway, it was an insane situation. I was physically a wreck. The hang over to end all hang overs to be sure. But thank god for the booze and the rich food and all those pudding pops as the combo was just to much and my body saved itself somehow.

By the time everybody got home, the mess was gone. I'd washed the sheets. Scrubbed the floor. And pulled what was left of me together. Brilliantly too for never knew what had happened. Never even suspected. Funny, they still don't. It...just never came up.

Why am I even telling you all of this? There must be a point. And there is a point. The main reason for gay pride is visibility. Had I had even the slightest clue that there were thousands upon thousands of gay people all across the land, it would have saved me years and years of heart ache and despair. Heck, it could have saved my life. For I could be dead. Yes, I could easily be dead. And even today with all the progress that has been made, the suicide rates among gay teens remain alarming.

And so to answer a repeated jokey question...as to why there is NO STRAIGHT WHITE MALE PRIDE DAY.... um, the answer is pretty simple. EVERY DAY IS STRAIGHT WHITE MALE PRIDE DAY. You don't grow up isolated and alone and told by the church you attend that you are an abomination. You don't cringe every time somebody knowingly calls you the f word. Maybe, just maybe, that's why you don't need a god damn parade to feel just a little bit better about yourself.

Blue2th
02-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Bisexual people are just greedy...

...so are Star Wars collectors. :yes:

Quite a story Mark2D2. :hurt: I trust you're ok now.

Jargo
02-19-2009, 02:46 PM
when I was 17 and coming to terms with my sexuality, or rather my preferences, I made a decision. I could either be a flag waving prancing shouting flaming homo or a guy who just happens to like other guys and gets on with life and doesn't let sexuality rule it.

I don't need pride marches. I don't need to frequent gay bars and watch gay dramas like queer as folk on tv to validate my existence. Nor do i wear sexuality like a shield. if i do wrong or face hardship I won't be found playing the gay card or the minority card.

There's a lot of wrong about the way a lot of gay folks behave. seting up enclaves in towns and cities and calling them 'the gay village'. which astounds me when these people bang on and on about wanting equality and acceptance then segregate themselves from the rest of society. how can anyone gain acceptance and equality when they keep screaming about how different they are. If people would just get past the who puts what where and concentrate on being human and pretty much one and the same with every other human on the planet maybe we could progress. Lose the damn flag waving and parades and sit down and talk like adults about serious issues.

Rocketboy
02-19-2009, 03:18 PM
God bless you Jargo.

Nothing irritates me more than when gay people let their sexual preference define them as a person ("I'm _________, I'm gay, and I'm fabulous!)

As long as its another consenting human of legal age I really don't give a f*ck who someone decides to get down with.

mabudonicus
02-19-2009, 03:49 PM
damn mark2d2, SO glad you made it through that BS, and I agree to an extent, especially in semi-puritanical Americuh, it is a good thing for there to be a sort of public "normalization" for folks who are still afraid of their own identities, for sure.

Jargo- Struth, as RB said too, sexual identity is, to me, about as "defining" as toothpaste preference.

Elf made a funny point too, one that I'm sure has been made before, but the large extent of the "anti-gay movement"/sentiment is made of up men, and focussed on gay men- I don't even think I have seen a sensationalised account (movie-of-the-week style) of a woman coming out of the closet- (maybe publically like Ellen, but I am pretty sure she was "out" behind the scenes for SOME time, "coming out" on TV to your TV audience isn't risking anything but ratings) and I haven't heard really much "anti gay" stuff from women.

And honestly 40 year old virgins MUST be less common (and thus more "unnatural") than gay people. Maybe we should have a 40-year-old-virgin Pride Month??
:beard: Iso&Baws
Oyes

Jargo
02-19-2009, 04:10 PM
damn. I really want to reply to that but i know if i say what i want to it'll land me in trouble.

I remember the days when 40 year old virgins were known as confirmed bachelors, which was code for 'he's gay'.

a bit like mothers who knew their own sons would say 'he's a sensitive boy, good with his hands....'

JEDIpartner
02-19-2009, 04:49 PM
JP- I do have a question for you though. How do you feel about the big push as of late to produce gay programming on television? Do you enjoy shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Queer as Folk" or do you find them to be unnecessary and silly?

Did I ever answer this?

I think that "Queer Eye" and QAF are kinda the "Amos & Andy" of the gay mainstreaming. No, they don't get it right and lot of what is represented are based on stereotypes within the community. QAF is pure soap opera. If you think soap operas get ANY part of everyday life right, you're off your rocker! LOL

Oh, Marky, I had no idea you had such a difficult time during your early years!!! :cry: You DO know you're loved, right?

:love:


Just close your eyes and pretend you're with a hairy woman.

No one should ever pretend they're with my stepmum. Deeeeeeesgusting!!!! :shocked:

pbarnard
02-19-2009, 05:15 PM
No one should ever pretend they're with my stepmum. Deeeeeeesgusting!!!! :shocked:

Slicker's your step-brother? :thumbsup:

Blue2th
02-19-2009, 06:03 PM
Proudest moment in my life was when I was a flagellating tadpole (much like a Gungan Sub) and I beat all the others trying to get to that sphere. :pleased:

What happened after that I'm still trying to figure it out. :crazed:

MSP, you don't have to pretend with that, there's plenty of hairy Helga's in Europe I hear. That extra fuzz can keep you warm in the winter, or make you itchy :D

I think the stereotypical representation of a "fem" gay man is mostly wrong.
They are in all walks of life. I mean there's some rough and tough Marines out there right? (they don't tell though)
Remember the Villiage People? They were all "Macho men"

I'm a confirmed batchelor now, after thirteen years of serving the Queen's every whim.
Now "I'm just waiting on a friend."

JEDIpartner
02-19-2009, 07:33 PM
Slicker's your step-brother? :thumbsup:

Quite possibly, yes!!

Jargo
02-19-2009, 08:22 PM
I think the stereotypical representation of a "fem" gay man is mostly wrong.
They are in all walks of life. I mean there's some rough and tough Marines out there right? (they don't tell though)
Remember the Villiage People? They were all "Macho men"
there's a difference between being macho and being a 'muscle mary' who squeals like a girl and disco dances wearing tighty whities, boots and glitter.
actualy that just made me think about Willie Nelson's song "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly" (Fond Of Each Other). :D

El Chuxter
02-19-2009, 11:54 PM
Nothing irritates me more than when gay people let their sexual preference define them as a person

eVEN WHEN THEY PREFER YOUR DAD?

:D

mark2d2
02-20-2009, 12:20 AM
One could very well make the argument that it is far more STRAIGHT society that is so hell bent on defining gay people by their sexuality rather than individual gays themselves.

Anyway, that's for the kind words, JP. And hello to Jargo. How are things on the far side of the pond.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-20-2009, 12:37 AM
One could very well make the argument that it is far more STRAIGHT society that is so hell bent on defining gay people by their sexuality rather than individual gays themselves.

Anyway, that's for the kind words, JP. And hello to Jargo. How are things on the far side of the pond.
One could also say the same thing for white people defining black people (or people of any other race), men defining women, and so on.

THE Slayer
02-20-2009, 12:37 AM
Forget QaF as the gay soap opera, Passions was the gayest show on tv! Definitely on network tv. It was also the first soap to have a lesbian love scene (in bed) and won some GLAAD awards! I mean, there were like 4 building in Harmony and one was a gay bar!
(The amount of stuff I know about this is show is mind-numbingly sad.)

Slicker
02-20-2009, 04:54 AM
Quite possibly, yes!!
That would be awesome! I only wish I was a realy brother so I could have super model looks. :upset:

Jargo
02-20-2009, 08:33 AM
awww slick, you're my pin up boy. :love:

JEDIpartner
02-20-2009, 09:09 PM
That would be awesome! I only wish I was a realy brother so I could have super model looks. :upset:

Oh, Slicker, you're much better looking than I am, so shut the frak up! ;)

Blue2th
02-21-2009, 02:59 AM
there's a difference between being macho and being a 'muscle mary' who squeals like a girl and disco dances wearing tighty whities, boots and glitter.
actualy that just made me think about Willie Nelson's song "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly" (Fond Of Each Other). :D

Muscle mary, tighty whities, now that paints a funny picture in my head. lol

There's a gay bar here in Burque called Sidewinders. It's a cowboy gay bar. Never been there (yet) Somehow I just can't picture two guys doing the two-step or waltz.
They probably play that Willie song all the time, me thinks.

What ever gets you through the night it'salright.

Old Fossil
02-22-2009, 12:10 AM
Whoa! Wrong room...

mark2d2
02-23-2009, 05:15 PM
In light of my recent posts, last night's big wins for MILK were very important to me. Not only was PENN's victory simply awesome, but for the screenwriter to take home and Oscar as well. Wow! Awesome! Dustin Lance Black's speech about being a gay teen and first hearing the story of HARVEY MILK and how it saved his life really hit close to home. Anyway, yeah. It's a thing. A very good thing.

JEDIpartner
02-25-2009, 04:46 PM
Whoa! Wrong room...

A person who watches Doctor Who and cannot deal with same-sex couplings? That's a funny one!! I mean, Captain Jack Harkness, anyone? It's not like the Doctor himself was never one to not kiss another man! LOL Omni-sexual beings are more evolved, you see. :love:

Jargo
02-25-2009, 04:53 PM
Captain Jack is a sleaze. Really creeps me out. Like someones lascivious lecherous uncle at a party but wasn't invited. I mean even the Doctor keeps trying to get rid of him. Whereas the Doctor has class and subtlety. No tacky corny chat up lines. No crass in-your-faceness.
I think jack represents what's bad about 'the gay community' while the Doctor represents what's right.

Old Fossil
02-25-2009, 05:08 PM
A person who watches Doctor Who and cannot deal with same-sex couplings? That's a funny one!! I mean, Captain Jack Harkness, anyone? It's not like the Doctor himself was never one to not kiss another man! LOL Omni-sexual beings are more evolved, you see. :love:

LOL!!! True that! Of course, I did watch the entire new series on DVD, twice. Loved every minute.

(Nah, it's water off a duck's back to me. I was just acting a fool. Again.)

JEDIpartner
03-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Captain Jack is a sleaze. Really creeps me out. Like someones lascivious lecherous uncle at a party but wasn't invited. I mean even the Doctor keeps trying to get rid of him. Whereas the Doctor has class and subtlety. No tacky corny chat up lines. No crass in-your-faceness.
I think jack represents what's bad about 'the gay community' while the Doctor represents what's right.

I think that would be ALL arrogant, cocksure men, to be honest with you, Jargo. I don't think it has anything to do with being gay-- 'cos he's-- Omnisexual, is it?


LOL!!! True that! Of course, I did watch the entire new series on DVD, twice. Loved every minute.

(Nah, it's water off a duck's back to me. I was just acting a fool. Again.)

LOL :love:

Jargo
03-10-2009, 10:20 PM
I think that would be ALL arrogant, cocksure men, to be honest with you, Jargo. I don't think it has anything to do with being gay-- 'cos he's-- Omnisexual, is it?

animal mineral vegetable and anything in between. Since i posted that reply up there i've decided that it's John Barrowman i can't stand. he's so - captain jack-ish in real life it's nauseating.

JEDIpartner
03-11-2009, 11:07 AM
animal mineral vegetable and anything in between. Since i posted that reply up there i've decided that it's John Barrowman i can't stand. he's so - captain jack-ish in real life it's nauseating.

See? There's a difference!! I enjoy the character, but don't really fancy HIM. :yes: So... I'll meet you halfway, mister!