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Tycho
06-25-2004, 05:19 AM
How about that first privatized space flight? The SpaceShip-One?

How do you guys think that is going to change things?

I'm really surprised no one posted on this before.

Exhaust Port
06-25-2004, 09:06 AM
Yes, it will change things for sure. Most likely most changes will come with applications of learned technology within the current transportation industry. Perhaps we'll see suborbital aircraft but I doubt we'll much beyond that in the commercial realm. If they can keep the cost down on each flight and they can prove safety and reliability with the SpaceShipOne model I'm sure that there will be a market for space launches for entertainment purposes. Even if it cost $500,000 for a flight there would be quite a line of interested riders.

This could also lead to a boom in space utilization and lower the cost for such services requiring a satelite. Satelite phones are incredibly expensive and so is the monthly service. By shaving off millions off the launch cost will lower the cost for consumers. How nice would it be to travel the world with your sat. phone and never have to worry about being out of cell tower range?

bigbarada
06-25-2004, 01:02 PM
I think there would be a huge market for a "luxury liner to the moon" type of vessel. Kind of like the Carnival Cruise line in outer space. Even if they charged $1 million per ticket to just orbit the moon once and return to Earth, there would be massive demand from all over the world.

Jay86
06-25-2004, 01:51 PM
How about that first privatized space flight? The SpaceShip-One?

How do you guys think that is going to change things?

I'm really surprised no one posted on this before.
This was sort of talked about in the "Other" section under the title of "Bragging Rights". This was my post (I posted this part Tuesday):

Up until yesterday I had been waiting for SpaceShipOne to blast into space for so long. I really must say, the past year has been amazing for me. We've found that there once was water on Mars (this is a lot bigger a find than you'd think), and we as humans have taken our first step into the Space Age Era. Those are the things I'll look back on when I'm older and I'll be proud to say I was around to witness it. Anybody catch Burt Rutan and Mike Melvill on Leno last night? I dunno about anyone else, but that whole interview was the kind that gave me chills (the oddly good kind) and really gave me something amazing to look forward to. Now I know what people felt back in the 60's when Yuri Gagarin orbitted the Earth and man landed on the moon. And to think, Scaled Composites isnt even the only team competing for the X-Prize! There are 27 or so other teams all developing and working for the same thing as Rutans co.!!! But its definitely private companies and kids today who have an interest in doing this that'll get us there. For far too long have people relied on NASA to do everything. Its amazing to see people just working together to conquer such an amazing thing.

bigbarada
06-25-2004, 02:07 PM
I thought it was "traces of a possibility that there might have been" water on Mars? :p

But you're right, the discoveries on Mars are sort of underappreciated right now. I think they'll have enormous consequences on future generations (for good or ill).

I heard that this spaceflight cost a tiny fraction of what a NASA flight would have cost. I wonder if that just because of advanced technology or because the government is always getting duped into paying too much money for garbage.

Jay86
06-25-2004, 02:16 PM
I thought it was "traces of a possibility that there might have been" water on Mars? :p I worded what I said wrong, fixed it, etc etc. And no, there is no "might have been" or any "possibilities" that there once was water on Mars. The scientists working on the project had (I believe two) official announcements saying that they were certain that there was once water on Mars. Both rovers found the evidence, and the mineral and dirt samples that were taken by the rovers fits together brilliantly with the possibility (now "fact") that water was once there.

bigbarada
06-25-2004, 02:34 PM
I worded what I said wrong, fixed it, etc etc. And no, there is no "might have been" or any "possibilities" that there once was water on Mars. The scientists working on the project had (I believe two) official announcements saying that they were certain that there was once water on Mars. Both rovers found the evidence, and the mineral and dirt samples that were taken by the rovers fits together brilliantly with the possibility (now fact) that water was once there.

It can't be a fact, by definition science can only declare something a fact if it is happening right now. "Overwhelming evidence of water on Mars at some point in the past" is probably the best that modern science can do; but that's not the same as a cold, hard fact.

I don't doubt that there were once bodies of water on Mars, it's just that science cannot answer with absolute certainty questions about events from the past that we have never observed.

Jay86
06-25-2004, 02:41 PM
It can't be a fact, by definition science can only declare something a fact if it is happening right now. "Overwhelming evidence of water on Mars at some point in the past" is probably the best that modern science can do; but that's not the same as a cold, hard fact.

I don't doubt that there were once bodies of water on Mars, it's just that science cannot answer with absolute certainty questions about events from the past that we have never observed.
Of course it cant be a fact-fact, I didnt mean pure-rock-solid-fact. It doesnt take even a rocket scientist to know that it cant be a "fact" because it happened in the past.....But ffiinnneeee then, I'll put it this way - "the scientists said their findings were as 'factual' as possible"....better? :rolleyes:

bigbarada
06-25-2004, 02:46 PM
Of course it cant be a fact-fact, I didnt mean pure-rock-solid-fact. It doesnt take even a rocket scientist to know that it cant be a "fact" because it happened in the past.....But ffiinnneeee then, I'll put it this way - "the scientists said their findings were as 'factual' as possible"....better? :rolleyes:

Much better. :p ;) :D

But anyways, we should probably stay on topic or this thread will get thrown in the Rancor Pit. :eek:

Back to the issue of cost, exactly how much cheaper was this space flight than a NASA mission? Does anyone know?

Jay86
06-25-2004, 02:58 PM
Back to the issue of cost, exactly how much cheaper was this space flight than a NASA mission? Does anyone know?
http://www.spacefuture.com/journal/journal.cgi?art=2004.06.17.June_21_flight

I think/am pretty sure the answer to that question was somewhere in that article, then again, thats not a fact, its simply a possibility :D

Tycho
06-25-2004, 08:02 PM
Welcome this thread to the Rancor Pit if it has to go, but BigBarada:

If there is good evidence that there was water on Mars...


Could this mean that conditions for life to evolve (such as water) are not so randomly impossible?

Could God have tried to create life on Mars, and then decided he made a mistake and switched to forming the ideal environment on earth?

Is water just a natural side effect from God's creation efforts? Why can't he make things exactly as he wants them in the first place?

Could we be a trial and error process? So could God have created evolution and used that as his trial-and-error process to build upon successes with bio-forming, and getting rid of errors such as the dinosaurs through natural selection or even super-natural selection (thus there never being dinosaurs on Noah's ark even if God did create the world, 50 million years ago - not 5,000 years ago?)

More competition for science and space flight will open the doors to more discovery. I am not a Creationist nor an Evolutionist absolutist, but I am excited when we take another step further towards our answers!

JediTricks
06-25-2004, 08:34 PM
Back to the issue of cost, exactly how much cheaper was this space flight than a NASA mission? Does anyone know?NASA shuttle flights cost roughly $500 million each - 25 times the entire cost of Rutan's reusable SpaceShipOne and its launch vehicle White Knight. The launch costs are less, around $225 mil, but the operational costs involve entire missions and maintenance and all that jazz - the program gets around $3 billion a year to pay for around 5 or 6 launches. Of course, the cost numbers technically will go when you factor in that the shuttle program has been grounded for a while now since the Columbia accident. Also, these cost numbers don't factor in the price of designing and building the vehicles, the single-use launch boosters, the various launch systems such as the crawler and facility, etc., because the number would jump yet again.


I am very proud of Rutan and his team, their accomplishment has opened up a new world for all of us. I only wish my grandpa Stan could have lived to see this, he was an engineer who worked on various elements of the shuttle and its launch systems and truly believed in human spaceflight, SpaceShipOne's accomplishment is the fruition of that dream of an inexpensive, reusable space vehicle that will take the average man to the stars.

scruffziller
06-26-2004, 09:39 AM
I am very proud of Rutan and his team, their accomplishment has opened up a new world for all of us. I only wish my grandpa Stan could have lived to see this, he was an engineer who worked on various elements of the shuttle and its launch systems and truly believed in human spaceflight, SpaceShipOne's accomplishment is the fruition of that dream of an inexpensive, reusable space vehicle that will take the average man to the stars.
Amen to that brother.:)
They will have to update their timeline on the Star Trek website.

JediTricks
06-27-2004, 09:16 PM
Burt Rutan = Zefram Cochrane? We haven't beaten the light barrier yet Scruff. :D