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View Full Version : Anakin's turn to evil. Midichlorians vs Sithosomes?



Turambar
08-04-2004, 03:03 PM
I know everyone is eager to discuss midichlorians some more, so I was trying to tie it into Episode 3. Based on the canon material from TPM, we know that these jedichlorians allow the people to hear the will of the force -- obviously the good side. Jedi have higher concentrations of them, so they hear it better and can tap into it better than average joes. We also are led to believe the jedichlorians fathered Anakin (We've already shown how ridiculous this idea was, but it is canon, so I'll go with it for this thread).
It is a logical conclusion, thus, that the midichlorians are good. They work for the good side, they filter the force, maybe so jedi only hear the good side broadcast. They knocked up shmear so she could give birth to the chosen one (true, nobody knows what "chosen one" or "bring balance to the force" mean and probably never will).
So if the midichlorians are good, then how does a jedi turn to the dark side? Even someone with an evil will could only hear the good side broadcast to them, so they could never tap in to the dark side. In Anakin's case, he is crazy and in need of psychiatric help. The jedi should have seen this and had him committed, but even though they were too arrogant, Ani still shouldn't have turned with all those midis in him.
Did the midis just get lazy? Was it simply a case of parent neglect? They were too busy to spend time making sure he only heard the will of the good side? In the new ROTJ the dramatic scene could have dialogue between Anakin and Luke such as: "I'm sorry I wasn't a better father, Luke. Your grandfather, my father, the midichlorians weren't always there for me when I needed them. I must have picked up some of his. . . er. . . their bad habits." Geez, I guess just realizing your dad was a bunch of microscopic parasites would be enough to drive most folks crazy.
The only other thing I could think of is maybe there is a separate intracellular particle that allows people to hear the will of the dark side. Someone once jokingly coined the term "sithosome", so I will use that. Since all people have jedichlorians, maybe they all have varying quantities of sithosomes, too. Maybe Anakin had an unusually large concentration that eventually conquered his jedichlorians and took over his will. Since everyone has some concentration of each of these, then free will really wouldn't matter much. Every evil thought or action could simply be the result of sithosomes acting like that devil on your shoulder, and vise versa for the jedichlorians. What an interesting concept!
Oh well. If anyone has ever read RLS's Jekyll and Hyde -- or just the last chapter, then that is how I think GL should have handled the situation of Anakin's turn to evil. I suppose that is against GL's nature, though to use superior writers for his stories.

CropDuster
08-04-2004, 04:12 PM
Oh, come on you prequel hater! Why do you insist on having a story that makes sense. If GL doesn't want the movies to adhere to continuity and exhibit logic then he doesn't have to because he dreamed them up.:rolleyes:

Seriously, there does need to be some clarification on the way the jedichondria interact regarding the light side and dark side of the force. I'm sure that since it wasn't explained in E1+2 then it'll all make perfect sense after E3. Yeah, right. As the story stands, it would make sense to have something to counteract the jedichondria since they do have "will" as exhibited by the conception of the "chosen one" (by what, and for whom?) who will bring balance (Ha, bring balance. When is this balancing going happen) to the force.

Maybe, instead of a shrink, Ani's sithosomes could have been controlled by Ritalin. lol

lucidebass
08-04-2004, 05:22 PM
That whole "bring balance" thing cracks me up. :crazed: I never understood what "balance" they are talking about. As far as I could tell at the begining of TPM, the force was more or less balanced...right?!? At that time the jedi council didn't know the sith were around...Actually, if you think about it, if Anakin was to bring balance (considering things were "ok") wouldn't that mean he would bring power to the dark side (considering at the time he was found, the light side had the power and was in control).think about it...hmmm :sur:

bigbarada
08-04-2004, 10:58 PM
Actually the way Lucas described it, balance could only exist if evil was eliminated from the galaxy. Supposedly, Jedi only take what they need from the Force, but Sith hoard power. Thus only Jedi can exist if balance is to be achieved.

At least that's the way I understood it. It's not the yin/yang thing everyone seems to assume.

rbaumhauer
08-04-2004, 11:43 PM
Whatever rationalization/explanation anybody wants to come up with is almost pointless - from a dramatic, storytelling standpoint, all the nonsense about "bringing balance to the Force", "the Chosen One", "the Prophecy" is just vague mumbo-jumbo that does nothing but take up space, illuminating nothing. Totally unnecessary, as well - nothing in the OT required Anakin to be some pseudo-messiah, with more midisequencers in his pinky than............oh, why bother?

And now, to top it all off, we have "Revenge of the Sith".

Who are the Sith? They're the Evil guys, right?

What are they looking to avenge? Nobody knows!!!!

Before anybody bursts out with explanations from novels or scenes that were cut from earlier movies, I ask only this: if you're going to put a name like "the Sith" in the title of the frickin' movie, is it too much to ask for some - no, ANY - explanation in the movies themselves about why we should care? What their motivation is? A bit of history? Anything?

2-1B
08-05-2004, 04:09 AM
Who are the Sith? They're the Evil guys, right?

What are they looking to avenge? Nobody knows!!!!

Before anybody bursts out with explanations from novels or scenes that were cut from earlier movies, I ask only this: if you're going to put a name like "the Sith" in the title of the frickin' movie, is it too much to ask for some - no, ANY - explanation in the movies themselves about why we should care? What their motivation is? A bit of history? Anything?

:confused:

"The Sith have been extinct for a millenium"

Episode I shows a good guy fighting a bad guy, the bad guy being suspected as a Sith Lord.

Hmm . . .

extinction for a millenium
+
supposed extinct creature fighting a good guy
+
a logical observation that the good guys most likley helped in this extinction
+
Darth Maul's desire to "Reveal ourselves to the Jedi" and to at last "have revenge."

=

an explanation based on no novels or cut scenes :)

jjreason
08-05-2004, 04:22 AM
I think the midichlorians only provide access to the force for their host. Ani's high count gives him a lot of control over a big ol' chunk of Force. What the host does with the force allotted to him would depend on the choices he/she makes and the motive behind the use. My analogy would be like using highspeed or cable vs. dial up - the highspeed fellas can download a lot more based on their access capablities, the nature of the content (Dark side vs. Light side) depends again on the user.

twich780
08-05-2004, 04:45 AM
ok i think the whole balance thing comes from the fact that there are 2 jedi and 2 sith left in "a new hope". obi and yoda. vader and palpy. ok well now your thinkin what about luke. well obi dies ,so luke takes his place.and yoda dies and leia kinda take his place. sense you can't have good with out evil and vice versa. it all works out. so the fact that anakin kills off all the jedis brings balance sense theres only to of each. full filling the Prophecy.
boo yea!
and the whole revenge come from the fact the sith have been in hideing so long. now they can get revenge from the jedi "killing them off".

let me know what you guys think

rbaumhauer
08-05-2004, 08:38 AM
:confused:

"The Sith have been extinct for a millenium"

Episode I shows a good guy fighting a bad guy, the bad guy being suspected as a Sith Lord.

Hmm . . .

extinction for a millenium
+
supposed extinct creature fighting a good guy
+
a logical observation that the good guys most likley helped in this extinction
+
Darth Maul's desire to "Reveal ourselves to the Jedi" and to at last "have revenge."

=

an explanation based on no novels or cut scenes :)

Sorry, but this still gives the entire saga the depth of your average rain puddle. If you want me to care about the supposed Main Character falling under the sway of an Evil Overlord, I want to see a bit more motivation than,"He's, well, EVIL!" We're talking about events that SIX entire movies are based around - how hard could it be to actually put some meat on the bones?

Who's writing this cr@p, Dubya?

2-1B
08-05-2004, 12:56 PM
if you're going to put a name like "the Sith" in the title of the frickin' movie, is it too much to ask for some - no, ANY - explanation in the movies themselves about why we should care? What their motivation is? A bit of history? Anything?

Sorry, but you weren't asking for an in depth thesis on the ways of the Sith, you only asked for "ANY" explanation and I just pointed out that there IS some explanation.


Sorry, but this still gives the entire saga the depth of your average rain puddle. If you want me to care about the supposed Main Character falling under the sway of an Evil Overlord, I want to see a bit more motivation than,"He's, well, EVIL!" We're talking about events that SIX entire movies are based around - how hard could it be to actually put some meat on the bones?

And hey, since you dragged ROTS into it, how's about waiting and actually SEEING the film before complaining about a lack of info. :rolleyes:
Maybe there will be some more information there to satisfy you. I'm sure there won't but at least give it a try, hmm ? ;)


Who's writing this cr@p, Dubya?

Now that's funny. :D

bigbarada
08-05-2004, 01:20 PM
sense you can't have good with out evil and vice versa. it all works out. so the fact that anakin kills off all the jedis brings balance sense theres only to of each. full filling the Prophecy.


Again, you're trying to attach a dualistic, yin/yang relationship to the light and dark side of the Force. In recent interviews with Lucas (made sometime between Ep1 and 2), he has stated that Anakin achieves balance by ridding the universe of evil. While that may not have been his intention while writing ANH in 1973, it is his intention now. So the idea of good requiring the existence of evil doesn't work in Lucas' new vision.

And midichlorians are simply the gateway that provides access to the Force. You don't need evil midichlorians to be evil. Just like the Nazis didn't need evil FM radio waves in WW2 in order to communicate while the US used nice FM radio waves. All sides used the same neutral radio waves.

CropDuster
08-05-2004, 01:33 PM
FM Radio waves didn't build the atomic bomb to end WW2; midis conceived a child to bring "balance". Your analogy doesn't work.

bigbarada
08-05-2004, 03:41 PM
FM Radio waves didn't build the atomic bomb to end WW2; midis conceived a child to bring "balance". Your analogy doesn't work.

Well, I liked it! :cry: :D

But, you're right, midis are a little more active than radio waves; Lucas was going for a symbiotic relationship. If Lucas wants the "immaculate conception" of Anakin Skywalker thing to work, then he really needs to explain a little more about the midichlorians relationship to living beings. Of course, that means more screen time taken up talking about the stupid midis. :(

Turambar
08-05-2004, 11:20 PM
I think maybe GL just got done watching The Lion King before making TPM. That's why he through in all that circle of life symbiotic BS. Maybe with the star tours stuff GL is selling out to disney. That would explain his making the prequels so toddler friendly with all the silly cartoons -- not to mention the jedi rocks in rotj se. It all makes sense, now!

But from the mouth of GL: when the dark side is eliminated balance is achieved. So it would seem apparent that midis work for the good side. We also know from the movie that they allow the jedi to hear the will of the force, so other theories cannot be considered. If they work for the good then they would not work for a sith, nor would they allow a jedi to turn to evil. Right?

bigbarada
08-06-2004, 02:47 PM
I think maybe GL just got done watching The Lion King before making TPM. That's why he through in all that circle of life symbiotic BS. Maybe with the star tours stuff GL is selling out to disney. That would explain his making the prequels so toddler friendly with all the silly cartoons -- not to mention the jedi rocks in rotj se. It all makes sense, now!

But from the mouth of GL: when the dark side is eliminated balance is achieved. So it would seem apparent that midis work for the good side. We also know from the movie that they allow the jedi to hear the will of the force, so other theories cannot be considered. If they work for the good then they would not work for a sith, nor would they allow a jedi to turn to evil. Right?

I think you've just stumbled upon an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. :)

Of course, there could be a greater good argument here. Maybe the midis, if they even are intelligent, are allowing the rise of the Sith in order to achieve some greater purpose that the Jedi cannot fathom. Of course, that would require the midis to be super-intelligent, not just average everyday human intelligent.

CropDuster
08-07-2004, 01:38 AM
I think your right, bigbarada, we don't know enough about midis to know what is really happening on their higher level of thinking (because they are enigmas wrapped in a conundrums, GL made 'em that way).
And, do we really want Ani to ask more questions about what midichlorians are? It was cheesy enough in TPM and explained as clear as mud.