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View Full Version : Why did Qui-Gon bargain with Watto?



CropDuster
08-04-2004, 04:28 PM
Why did Qui-Gon bargain with Watto? I think if he thought that taking Ani was for the greater good then he should have just done it. What was Watto going to do about it? Slavery was against the law for the republic, wasn't it? And, for QGJ to say that he couldn't free Schmi is just plain ludicrous. Watto could not do anyhting about him just taking her. It's not like anyone on Tatooine would give a rip about what happened to Watto anyway considering he was just a shady junk dealer. I think that the jedi mind trick should have worked nicely on Watto because he didn't appear to be all that bright. I dunno, maybe there is something here I'm missing. Lemme know why Watto had bargaining power with the jedi.

lucidebass
08-04-2004, 05:02 PM
When they were eating at Ani's home, ani and Shmi explained that all slaves have a device planted in them so they can't escape. (remember the line "any atempt to escape and they blow you up") I would assume that device would be controlled by the slave's owner. Therefore, Qui Gon could not take Ani without the device being deactivated or removed by Watto. This was just my interpretation of the story...

rbaumhauer
08-04-2004, 05:05 PM
Because George had the bright idea to make little Ani a slave (the better for the audience to empathize with him), but his mommy had to be left behind so that Ani would have something to obsess about for a decade or so, have bad dreams about, and eventually help "cause his fall to the Dark Side".

I swear, there are times when I wonder if Lucas could have made a worse movie than TPM if he had actually been trying to sabotage the property. Parts of AOTC have convinced me that he could, but that it might not take much effort.

Darth Jax
08-04-2004, 05:05 PM
Why did Qui-Gon bargain with Watto? I think if he thought that taking Ani was for the greater good then he should have just done it. What was Watto going to do about it? Slavery was against the law for the republic, wasn't it? And, for QGJ to say that he couldn't free Schmi is just plain ludicrous. Watto could not do anyhting about him just taking her. It's not like anyone on Tatooine would give a rip about what happened to Watto anyway considering he was just a shady junk dealer. I think that the jedi mind trick should have worked nicely on Watto because he didn't appear to be all that bright. I dunno, maybe there is something here I'm missing. Lemme know why Watto had bargaining power with the jedi.

QGJ tried the jedi mind trick first. it didn't work on Watto, he even states - "what do you think you are some type of jedi, i'm a toydarian mind tricks do not work on me."

As for Ani and Shmi, anakin answers that one. he states that slaves have a explosive device implanted which prevents them from leaving. he's trying to build a scanner for it, but hasn't been successful yet.

Turambar
08-04-2004, 10:47 PM
We learn in the Trilogy that mind tricks work on the weak minded. Why in the world does Lucas create this new idea that mind tricks will fail against certain species? That makes no sense at all. Watto was just a crooked junk salesman; probably not the brightest guy. So GL decides to invent this "mind tricks don't work on some species" BS so his crummy movie will work.
Still, QG was a big bad dude and Watto a coward. I expect a life threat would have procured the freedom of Ani's mom. But, again, GL's story wouldn't have worked, then.

Kidhuman
08-05-2004, 12:25 AM
Watto states the only thing that affects a Toydarian's thinking is money. One track minded, they cant fall for anything else.

Also, the Republic gad no control on Tatooine. If the Republic credits were no good there, then why would their lgaws be?

JEDIpartner
08-05-2004, 08:54 AM
I swear, there are times when I wonder if Lucas could have made a worse movie than TPM if he had actually been trying to sabotage the property.
He DID... it was called RETURN OF THE JEDI. :o

rbaumhauer
08-05-2004, 09:58 AM
He DID... it was called RETURN OF THE JEDI. :o

You'll get no argument from me that ROTJ is, by far, the weakest movie of the OT - the only group that regularly claims to like ROTJ the most of the OT are people who were 7-8 years old when they saw it. Is it worse than TPM? I don't think so, but then again, we're merely talking about different shades of bad, aren't we?

For my money, Lucas clearly lost the ability to make (or allow to be made, since he was neither writing nor directing back then) a decent "Star Wars" movie after ESB. Why? I'm sure there are lots of reasons, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, ESB having proved that "Star Wars" was a license to print money, he either got lazy, or started making decisions based more on marketing concerns than real story concerns.

It has been well-documented that, when it came time to actually make ROTJ, Lucas was really sick of "Star Wars", and basically just wanted to get it done and move on. He was in the process of removing himself from Hollywood, and seemed much more concerned with building the Ranch than making a SW movie. In the Annotated Screenplays, there are many instances of Lucas vetoing story suggestions that would have given the movie some depth (ie, Han or Luke or Lando getting killed) because he didn't want to do anything in the movie that might make children feel bad (as he had in his own childhood when a "good guy" got killed).

Since ROTJ is really the thematic jumping-off point for the PT, and Lucas was clearly not at the top of his game when ROTJ was made, it's hardly surprising that the PT is a bit lacking (to say the least).

JEDIpartner
08-05-2004, 10:28 AM
I think I like all of the political aspects and Jedi Knights in TPM. Those elements make TPM a better movie for me. I'm not a total "prequel" hater like many people are. I will accept your reasons for not liking things as much as I hope others will accept mine. :)

El Chuxter
08-05-2004, 11:27 AM
If a Jedi goes outside the Republic and frees slaves, he's compromising his integrity as a diplomat and negotiator. Slavery is deplorable, but on Tatooine at this time, it's legal.

At worst, it could start a war between the Republic and Tatooine. . . and through them, the Hutts. That would be bad. (Keep in mind Qui-Gon has no idea that the Republic will be in a much worse war a decade later.)

bigbarada
08-05-2004, 04:19 PM
We learn in the Trilogy that mind tricks work on the weak minded. Why in the world does Lucas create this new idea that mind tricks will fail against certain species? That makes no sense at all. Watto was just a crooked junk salesman; probably not the brightest guy. So GL decides to invent this "mind tricks don't work on some species" BS so his crummy movie will work.
Still, QG was a big bad dude and Watto a coward. I expect a life threat would have procured the freedom of Ani's mom. But, again, GL's story wouldn't have worked, then.

Actually, the idea that mind tricks don't work on some species is established in ROTJ with Jabba the Hutt.

I agree that Qui-Gonn's choices of which rules to break and which rules to follow and when to lie/tell the truth are more than a little arbitrary in TPM. It's nearly impossible for the audience to understand the logic behind anything he does in the film. Of course, Lucas tries to explain that away with Qui-Gonn's "live in the moment" attitude.

JediTricks
08-05-2004, 08:05 PM
We learn in the Trilogy that mind tricks work on the weak minded. Why in the world does Lucas create this new idea that mind tricks will fail against certain species? That makes no sense at all. Watto was just a crooked junk salesman; probably not the brightest guy. So GL decides to invent this "mind tricks don't work on some species" BS so his crummy movie will work. Yeah, I tend to agree that this one is a fairly sizeable CPD (contrived plot device).


Actually, the idea that mind tricks don't work on some species is established in ROTJ with Jabba the Hutt. No, what is established is that Jabba says that the mind trick works on Bib and not Jabba because Bib is a weak-minded fool, the rest is only suggestion and could easily go either way because it doesn't say WHY the trick won't work only that it doesn't and the reason it worked on Bib is because he's weak-minded:
JABBA (in Huttese subtitled): I told you not to admit him.
LUKE: I must be allowed to speak.
BIB (in Huttese subtitled): He must be allowed to speak.
Jabba, furious, clobbers Bib and shoves him away.
JABBA (in Huttese subtitled): You weak-minded fool! He's using an old Jedi mind trick.
Luke stares hard at Jabba.
LUKE: You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookiee to me.
JABBA (in Huttese subtitled): Your mind powers will not work on me, boy.
Jabba doesn't say where his immunity comes from, it could be that his species is immune or that his mind is too well-trained against it, it's simply not clear.



For my money, Lucas clearly lost the ability to make... a decent "Star Wars" movie after ESB. "During" actually, Lucas had virtually no hand in making ESB and when he saw a rough cut, said it was garbage and he was taking over and proceeded to make a terrible new cut of the film that later even he said was no good. I have a thread about this in the CT forum: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=19203

Kyle Katarn
08-05-2004, 08:27 PM
I think Qui-Gon didn't do that because he wanted to prove the potential of Anakin, also he's a Jedi and a Jedi is peaceful and he needed to deal 'cuase in Tatooine slavory is permited and if he had taken Anakin without a deal he would break rules. That's my opinion.

Turambar
08-05-2004, 11:10 PM
Actually, the idea that mind tricks don't work on some species is established in ROTJ with Jabba the Hutt.
.

Oops. Jedi Tricks beat me to it. But yeah, what he said.

I see what you're saying KK, it just comes down to an ethical dilemma then. Should QG use brute force to fight something that is morally wrong? Methinks QG made the wrong choice so as to go along with GL's story.

rbaumhauer
08-05-2004, 11:30 PM
"During" actually, Lucas had virtually no hand in making ESB and when he saw a rough cut, said it was garbage and he was taking over and proceeded to make a terrible new cut of the film that later even he said was no good. I have a thread about this in the CT forum: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=19203

Good point - I had forgotten that bit of lore.

Turambar - that's the basic problem, isn't it? George isn't the sort of writer who's ever going to say,"The characters know where they're going - I just listen to them", is he? He has a definite idea of where he wants the story to go (for whatever misguided reasons :) ), and tends to force the characters along a path that doesn't necessarily make much sense.

Rick

mm74md
08-06-2004, 12:32 AM
I swear, there are times when I wonder if Lucas could have made a worse movie than TPM if he had actually been trying to sabotage the property.

Why does EVERYONE bash TPM? Nobody could argue with me that it has THE BEST lightsaber duel of any of the other 5 movies (here's hoping ROTS tops it). I agree that Jar Jar is over the top and Ani is quite annoying....but c'mon...TPM was FUN!

Oh, and he did make a worse movie..HOWARD THE DUCK :eek:

CropDuster
08-06-2004, 01:20 AM
Oops. Jedi Tricks beat me to it. But yeah, what he said.

I see what you're saying KK, it just comes down to an ethical dilemma then. Should QG use brute force to fight something that is morally wrong? Methinks QG made the wrong choice so as to go along with GL's story.
That's the question, should QG abide by tatooine laws that he probably doesn't agree with or free a slave for the greater good of all. It's not like he was trying to abolish slavery on the planet, just free two slaves.
Also, BigBarada, it's a laughable notion to think the Hutts would start a war with the republic if someone took two slaves from an insignificant salvage crook.

Turambar
08-06-2004, 06:23 AM
Why does EVERYONE bash TPM? Nobody could argue with me that it has THE BEST lightsaber duel of any of the other 5 movies (here's hoping ROTS tops it). I agree that Jar Jar is over the top and Ani is quite annoying....but c'mon...TPM was FUN!

Oh, and he did make a worse movie..HOWARD THE DUCK :eek:

Because it's a very poorly done movie.
If you mean most high-octane action-packed lightsaber duel, then yes, no one could argue that.
I've always felt it was a very hollow sequence; the type of action sequence in every action movie these days. Darth Maul is a very empty character who looks cool, but has no personality and really never does anything evil. Obi-Wan, again, is a very dry and underdeveloped character. We know and love him because of ANH not his background appearance in TPM which should have built the character since GL intends this to be seen chronologically.
And, yeah, Howard the duck was probably worse. I've never been able to sit through the whole thing, though.

bigbarada
08-06-2004, 03:17 PM
Also, BigBarada, it's a laughable notion to think the Hutts would start a war with the republic if someone took two slaves from an insignificant salvage crook.

:confused: ....um..... I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I said that I agree that Qui-Gonn's "decision-making" in EP1 is somewhat illogical. I was willing to just gloss over it back in 1999 and go along with the ride.

The prequels have not stood the test of time with me, and I pretty much detach them completely from Star Wars continuity. ROTJ has all of the same problems as well (Lucas hammering characters into forced plotlines regardless of logic).

Lucas claims that he was trying to complete the story, but that's a lie, he is trying to rewrite ANH and ESB so that they conform to the corner he wrote himself into with ROTJ and the prequels.

Slicker
08-06-2004, 08:29 PM
I've thought this almost ever since I first saw TPM and that is why don't go elsewhere? I know Watto is the only one who has the parts he needs but why don't QG just take his Republic credits to the local branch of the Mos Espa bank and exchange them for the local acceptable currency or go to another dealer and just swap his useless credits with some cold hard cash. He could just give a wave of the hand and that would be the end of that. I know that the code of the Jedi would probably forbid such a ruse but would it have been any worse then Ben using it on the stormtroopers in ANH. If the situation warrants such use of your powers use em'.

JediTricks
08-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Why does EVERYONE bash TPM? Nobody could argue with me that it has THE BEST lightsaber duel of any of the other 5 movies.... First off, please don't take my following comments as argumentative for argument's sake, they're not. That said, I don't agree with you about the lightsaber battle being the best, it's the most active and most choreographed, but I think it comes off hollow; even the Tatooine battle had more spark. There's no emotion, no context, it's just lots of waving around without really signifying anything, it's not a battle for life or death, it's just a lightsaber ballet.

Also, I think everybody bashes TPM because it's largely perceived as a sloppy movie that doesn't deliver on its own or as an addition to the Star Wars universe very well, especially factoring in how much hype Lucasfilm put out there for it. Still, I dislike it less than AOTC. There's been a lot of discussion on the question before this though, I don't want to bog you down with an endless tirade on the film, but I do suggest you check out the older threads in this section.



That's the question, should QG abide by tatooine laws that he probably doesn't agree with or free a slave for the greater good of all. It's not like he was trying to abolish slavery on the planet, just free two slaves. Keep in mind that Watto also has the access to the vital part for the queen's starship, if Qui-Gon runs the Toydarian through he could get in trouble with the locals or simply be unable to find the hyperdrive he needs. Plus, it's possible that Watto could, with his dying breath, activate the micro-explosives in their bodies and that'd end the show right then and there.



I know Watto is the only one who has the parts he needs but why don't QG just take his Republic credits to the local branch of the Mos Espa bank and exchange them for the local acceptable currency or go to another dealer and just swap his useless credits with some cold hard cash. He could just give a wave of the hand and that would be the end of that. I know that the code of the Jedi would probably forbid such a ruse but would it have been any worse then Ben using it on the stormtroopers in ANH. If the situation warrants such use of your powers use em'. Although I suspect there's no local bank, I also have been wondering for the past 5 years why Qui-Gon didn't simply go next door, use the Force to convince some other guy to sell him something really great, then come back and trade it to Watto. And we've seen QGJ go against the code before and after this scene, so it doesn't seem like a big stretch at all, just another CPD.

CropDuster
08-07-2004, 01:13 AM
:confused: ....um..... I think you're confusing me with someone else.

My apologies, BigB, I was confused. I was referring to the El Chuxter post,

At worst, it could start a war between the Republic and Tatooine. . . and through them, the Hutts. That would be bad. (Keep in mind Qui-Gon has no idea that the Republic will be in a much worse war a decade later.)
I doubt Tatooine or the Hutts would ever have any desire to go to war with the republic.