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JEDIpartner
08-05-2004, 02:11 PM
Here are a coupld things you may not have known...

Han Solo: abandonned by space gypsies, raised by Wookiees from age seven to twelve, a cadet at the Space Academy, and expelled for selling exam answers and drag-racing spaceships, he finally becomes a spice smuggler and enemy of the Empire.

Wookiees: dwell in tribes on a damp jungle planet, occupying inflatable houses set atop giant trees. They live to be three hundred fifty years old, eat meat and vegetables, and are mammals. The six-breasted females deliver their offspring in littlers; baby Wookiees are four feet tall at birth, with wide, adult-sized eyes.

Princess Leia: raised as a soldier, trained inthe martial and political arts by the finest minds in the Alderaan system. (Terri Nunn of Berlin auditioned for the role!)

C-3P0: 112 years old and Luke is his 43rd master (most of his previous employers were diplomats like Princess Leia). his logic system is in his head, and his storage systems are in his heart and chest area. As a protocol robot, C-3P0 is programmed not to reveal classified information, which explains his apparent ignorance of Princess Leia's hologram message.

bigbarada
08-05-2004, 02:29 PM
Interesting, in other drafts of the film Han Solo was about 60 years old, Princess Leia was named Princess Luke (Luke's character didn't exist) and Mark Hamill was actually cast for the role of Anakin Starkiller.

Another early version had Leia kidnapped by the evil Chewbacca and held prisoner on the planet of the Wookies.

This is why I never believe Lucas when he claims that he had the story all planned out from the beginning.

El Chuxter
08-05-2004, 02:34 PM
Han Solo: abandonned by space gypsies, raised by Wookiees from age seven to twelve, a cadet at the Space Academy, and expelled for selling exam answers and drag-racing spaceships, he finally becomes a spice smuggler and enemy of the Empire.

Interesting! I didn't realize a lot of his backstory wasn't created by AC Crispin in the Han Solo Trilogy novels. I'd always heard, though, that Lucas intended him to have graduated with honors, started out on a promising career as an officer, and been dishonorably discharged after freeing Chewie from slavery. Did he change his mind on this at some point, or was this created by someone else?


C-3P0: 112 years old and Luke is his 43rd master (most of his previous employers were diplomats like Princess Leia). his logic system is in his head, and his storage systems are in his heart and chest area. As a protocol robot, C-3P0 is programmed not to reveal classified information, which explains his apparent ignorance of Princess Leia's hologram message.

This is one he should've left. Another thing he'd mentioned is that C-3PO had (like R2-D2) avoided ever having a memory wipe, which led to his having an actual personality. All the adventures and different masters he had between ROTS and ANH (all approved by Lucas, I might add) ought to cause some serious headaches in the minds of continuity buffs as to how he just happened to leave Leia's mother and end up with her adopted father.

B'Omarr Monkey
08-05-2004, 04:58 PM
C-3PO was also originally supposed to be a fast talking used car salesman-type, which explains his dialogue with Owen Lars at the sandcrawler, and his talking his way past the stormtroopers on the Death Star.

They definitely should have kept he and R2 as having had a much richer history than C-3PO now has. Aside from the ridiculousness of how coincidental and small world SW has begun. Darth Vader being Luke's dad, not a terrible stretch of the coincidence factor. Leia being Luke's brother, a much bigger stretch. C-3PO being built by Darth Vader, then winding up in the possession of both his kids? Please. Next we'll find out that all the stormtroopers were cloned from a very popular bounty hunter ...d'oh!

There's the other unbelievability factor. Anakin Skywalker was an impoverished slave and most likely close to illiterate. I doubt Watto was sending him to school, despite the presence of Anakin's backpack. Yet, this subsistance living kid had the time, resources and knowledge to cobble together technologically advanced vehicles and a sophisticated A.I. droid out of stuff he just found laying around?

The C-3PO origin is one of the worst things about the PT in my opinion.


Lucas is definitely making this stuff up as he goes, otherwise he wouldn't feel compelled to keep tinkering with the previous movies in order to fix things. Do you rellay believe that there would have been a Jango Fett if Boba was not so popular in the OT? Do you really think that Jango Fett would have been the source material for the stormtroopers?

Remember also that Lucas began SW as an homage to Flash Gordon (because he couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon) and it was always meant to be a serial-styled space adventure (much like Indiana Jones in tone). Then along comes Joseph Campbell and the revisionist history comes out that SW was meant to be a fusion of myths and folktales mixed with history and religion. Suddenly the movies stopped being fun and were full of pompous, ridiculous dialogue and no humor.

JediTricks
08-05-2004, 06:35 PM
One of the later drafts of the film was so close to Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" that Lucas and his partner on the project Gary Kurtz tried to buy the rights to that film so they wouldn't get sued for plagerism. There are SO MANY different iterations of the pre-film story and script that I don't think you can definitively say which ONE is the main point Lucas wanted to use. Heck, Mace Windu was originally a pilot named Mace Windy and the Jedi were the Jedi Bendu, and one of the drafts had it not being a trilogy or even 2 or 3 trilogies but ONE incredibly long film starting with Palpatine's rise to power.

B'Omarr Monkey
08-06-2004, 12:27 AM
You could also read through "Dune" and Edgar Rice Burroughs' "John Carter" books and come across quite a lot of familiar names such as large beasts of burden called "Banths" as well as words close to "Padawan" and "Jedi" in Dune, used in very similar purposes. There's also the amtter of the Tusken raider outfits vs the still suits in Dune. When I read these books again after AOTC, I meant to compile a list of all the material from SW that I was finding in these books (quite a bit) but never got around to it.

SW was a real hodgepodge of Lucas' influences. I remember reading that one of his secretaries who typed up the script for SW (before it was called "A New Hope") ended up standardizing all the spellings for things like "wookiee" because Lucas was inconsistent, so maybe those "borrowed" words were much closer to their original source words in his handwritten script.

Also, back to C-3PO, I believe in pre PT interviews, Lucas made mention of the droids having a much older lineage than 25 b.o.t.. The first SW newspaper strip addressed that directly (I think it's reproduced in "The Art of Star Wars") and when was "Droids" supposed to be set?

I also think that there was a version of SW that was essentially a battle between the wookiees and the imperials, sort of a version of the Battle of Hoth fought on Endor, which is why we ended up with the ewoks.

Even weirder, is that there was a rumor at the time "Willow" was in production that "Willow" was originally supposed to be the adventures of Yoda as a young man, but was changed at the last minute into a more Tolkeinesque story. I've never seen all of "Willow," and what I've seen was only as recent as its first tv broadcast ages ago. but there's a very tiny statured hero, Val Kilmer as a Jedi warrior stand in, magic that could have originally been tied to the force, etc. It seems far fetched, but in light of the make it up as it goes (such as Anakin/Darth Vader always meant to be the focus of SW [which would explain his very small role in ANH] even though Lucas had always said previously that these movies were were about C-3PO and R2, or at least galactic shaping events through their eyes, including the third trilogy set after the OT princiapal characters are all dead ) seems a bit more likely.

bigbarada
08-06-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally Darth Vader was a character that more closely resembles Ep3's General Grievous.

Naboo, Coruscant, Kamino and Geonosis were all planets that were originally written for ESB (they just didn't have those names and Naboo is the combination of what was actually two ESB planets: a garden planet and a grasslands planet).

And it's also clear that "Darth" being exclusively a Sith title was created for Ep1. Up until the prequels, everyone (including Lucas) treated 'Darth' as Vader's first name and 'Lord' as his title.

scruffziller
08-06-2004, 03:01 PM
One of the later drafts of the film was so close to Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" that Lucas and his partner on the project Gary Kurtz tried to buy the rights to that film so they wouldn't get sued for plagerism.
Wasn't that also the story where the power was called "The Source"?


there's a very tiny statured hero, Val Kilmer as a Jedi warrior stand in, magic that could have originally been tied to the force, etc.
And the villian was no doubt a Sith Lord.:D

TheDarthVader
08-06-2004, 06:21 PM
Those are some cool points. JediPartner, where did you find those?

B.
TDV

B'Omarr Monkey
08-06-2004, 10:15 PM
Naboo, Coruscant, Kamino and Geonosis were all planets that were originally written for ESB (they just didn't have those names and Naboo is the combination of what was actually two ESB planets: a garden planet and a grasslands planet).

I think the grass planet was originally planned for Alderaan, and then for the location of Jabba's Palace. I'm staying spoiler free for ROTS, so I don't even know if Alderaan is supposed to be in it, but it will be interesting if Lucas goes back to the grass planet idea.

Speaking of planets, Naboo is the only one in the SW Universe that is realistically depicted, in terms of it having a variety of environments, even though we really only see forest, plains, swamp, and water. Even so its more than the very one dimensional worlds of Tatooine, Kamino, Hoth, Dagobah, and Yavin iv and the Ewok moon of Endor have with their one planet= one environment. Look at measly little earth here, we have all those environments on one planet. It saves us lots of money on intergaalctic vacations.

JediTricks
08-06-2004, 10:32 PM
B'Omarr, I've never heard that rumor about "Willow". Off the cuff, it doesn't sound that likely but you never know with LFL.


Scruff, I don't know about "The Source", sounds kinda weird that way, more like some commune hippie thing. ;)


B'Omarr, you're right, the grass/plains planet was Alderaan. Coruscant was conceived for the first film (well, actually was conceived well before the first film was to be the first film), and Bespin's Cloud City was originally the Imperial fortress that Leia had to be rescued from (and at one point Bespin's basic concept was supposed to be the world above Alderaan's ground). I'm afraid I can't find any reference to Kamino or Geonosis being designed for anything before Ep 2 though, including their Behind the Scenes listings on SW.com

B'Omarr Monkey
08-06-2004, 11:16 PM
I remember that about Bespin and Alderaan. Thanks for the reminder.

I don't know specifically where the "Willow" rumour started, but I know that I heard it from a friend of mine who was working in special projects at Marvel Comics back when they still did comic book adaptations. Based on their relationship with LFL becasue of the SW comic, they were privy to future projects well in advance, and this is the story he passed on to me before the film was ever in production. Knowing I was a SW fan, he let me know that a prequel film about young Yoda was in the works and gave me the gist of the plot. Remember, this was also when SW was at lits lowest eb in fan popularity, so a smaller scale film was not unlikely, especially since this was still the dawn of CGI technology. Maybe they reworked the script after this. I don't know. I wish there was a memo or something that went with that, but there isn't.

JEDIpartner
08-09-2004, 08:23 AM
Those are some cool points. JediPartner, where did you find those?
I took those from "Skywalking", which is a mid-eighties biography of George Lucas. I'm just leisurely reading through it at lunch breaks. I'll post more if I run across anything else! :D

Deoxyribonucleic
08-09-2004, 10:09 AM
In the mind of George Lucas is....

NOTHING...if it weren't for the directors (not including Lucas), screenwriters, the art department/special effects crew (Joe Johnston, Phil Tippett, Nylo Jamero, etc.) and mostly Ralph McQuarrie, there would be NO star wars because Lucas certainly WOULD NOT have come up with most of this stuff on his own....he can't even get his own stories straight. I give that man NO credit for the ideas and look of star wars...I give him credit only for being a good business man. Like Madonna for instance, she can't sing well at all but she sure as hell knows how to market herself and stay in the mainstream. Bill Gates certainly was lucky to buy DOS for 50 grand and make a fortune out of it due to his savvy business skills, but he can't claim that his mind came up with the idea.

But then there's George who takes credit for everything. :rolleyes:

On a side note though, one thing I do like about him is that he seems to be a great family man with his kids and in the long run, that's all that really matters :)

El Chuxter
08-09-2004, 10:37 AM
Speaking of planets, Naboo is the only one in the SW Universe that is realistically depicted, in terms of it having a variety of environments, even though we really only see forest, plains, swamp, and water. Even so its more than the very one dimensional worlds of Tatooine, Kamino, Hoth, Dagobah, and Yavin iv and the Ewok moon of Endor have with their one planet= one environment. Look at measly little earth here, we have all those environments on one planet. It saves us lots of money on intergaalctic vacations.

Not entirely true. The Yavin and Endor moons are much like Earth, but we only see small portions of them in the films. (The Ewok movies show several other environments on Endor, including mountains and grasslands.) Tatooine has a variety of environments, but is exceptionally dry, so it's not entirely single-environment.

And Naboo is apparently like a big sponge with no molten core, so it's actually the least realistic. :crazed:

Bosskman
08-09-2004, 03:33 PM
Deoxy, you took the words right outta my mouth.