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JediTricks
08-20-2004, 07:54 PM
Last night, I opened up my VOTC Vader and was checking out the articulation when I got to the knees. I went to move the left one because I could see it was articulated and the lower leg broke halfway off.

Upon closer examination, I figured out that Hasbro had designed this figure to have a univeral-jointed knee, but unlike most uni-joints, this one was a rotation joint at the top, a hinge joint in the middle, AND a second rotation joint at the bottom. This lower rotation joint plugs into the lower leg at the boot and in the manufacturing process, the factory workers installed the joint and turned the lower leg forwards but because the uni-joint had rotation at the top AND bottom it can rotated freely from the upper AND lower leg so it ended up facing sideways instead of foward, so when I went to bend the knee, I didn't see that the uni-joint was facing sideways and the lower leg's connection to the joint broke with almost no effort.

Examining the other knee found the same thing, the joint was sideways and now that I knew what to look for I could see (just barely) how things were aligned.

Anyway, bottom line: if you plan on opening your VOTC Vader figure, double-check the orientation of the knee joint before trying to move it.

Turbowars
08-22-2004, 11:30 AM
Yeah you have to be careful with some of these figures these days. As I went to pull out R2's middle leg it was kind of stuck and I pulled too hard and it broke right off. This was the RAR2-D2 version.

JediTricks
08-23-2004, 01:44 AM
This is the only SW figure I've gotten that I have ever broken where the problem didn't stem from a stuck joint, I really hope that's not a sign of things to come.

That's too bad. Which R2 is that? RA? Removable Arm (aka the VOTC one)? The only other moveable-3rd-leg R2-D2s I can think of are Jabba's Barge R2 and Holo Leia R2. None of which would be pleasant to have break off really (and in fact, yours is the only sample I've ever heard of doing that, so I am quite curious).

B_C
08-23-2004, 10:50 AM
Yep...I broke Dagobah Yodas wrist trying to pose its cane....some joints are good in theory, but in practice are not strong enough to work.

jjreason
08-23-2004, 11:30 AM
Thanks for the heads up, JT. I guess I'm too careful with mine, if a joint won't release I don't go forcing the issue. I'm pretty much open and display anyhow. The only figure of mine that's ever been broken was my original small head Han from back in the day - my little brother got after him with a socket set and left him headless. Sad, and made even more sad by the horrible looking big headed replacement I wound up with. :)

Turbowars
08-23-2004, 07:32 PM
This is the only SW figure I've gotten that I have ever broken where the problem didn't stem from a stuck joint, I really hope that's not a sign of things to come.

That's too bad. Which R2 is that? RA? Removable Arm (aka the VOTC one)? The only other moveable-3rd-leg R2-D2s I can think of are Jabba's Barge R2 and Holo Leia R2. None of which would be pleasant to have break off really (and in fact, yours is the only sample I've ever heard of doing that, so I am quite curious).Oh sorry, it was the Bar2-D2 version (Jabba's Barge R2).

CrunchyNug
08-23-2004, 08:13 PM
I just read your post after opening my VOTC Vader. I didn't break anything, but thanks for the warning. This figure is very articulate, making the poses almost endless. GH has a greeat shot of him kneeling.

www.galactichunter.com/absoluteig/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=3355&text=&imageid=12193&box=&shownew=

JediTricks
08-24-2004, 12:30 AM
That's the thing JJ, I didn't force it, I barely excerted any pressure at all, only enough to move a SA Clone's leg or the Cloud Car Pilot's leg, nowhere near enough (I thought) to break it.


Thanks for clearing that up Turbo, I am still quite surprised to hear that one broke, something I'll watch for from now on. Did it break off at the top, somewhere in the middle of the limb, or at the ankle?

B'Omarr Monkey
08-25-2004, 12:26 AM
Thanks for the warning JT. Of course the way they are imprisoned inside their packaging these days, it's amazing that more figures don't get broken.

The only problems I've had is with McFarlane toys, which often break before you open them. You have to be a member of the bomb squad to get those shoddily made (yet nice looking) toys out of the package without breaking them.

JediTricks
08-26-2004, 03:49 AM
Don't get me wrong, the packaging is limited to a simple coffin blister bubble and plastic tray inside, and the tray itself is almost certainly never going to pose a threat to the figure. It's just how the figure was assembled and left in the package, how the knees were aligned sideways in respect to the upper and lower legs which is the threat here.

I know what you mean about McF though, Hasbro Saga was starting to suffer this too, you'd get these flimsy or brittle limbs twistied or clear-banded into the tray and removing it was a serious risk of damage. Breakage is one of the major issues that drove me away from the McF lines.

vadersvette
08-26-2004, 10:20 PM
My Bar2-D2's leg doesn't even stay up, it always falls down. Way back with Luminara Unduli, I broke her arm just by simply taking her out of the blister! :rolleyes:

wolfmaster123
09-21-2004, 10:54 PM
I just bought a vader from my local Walmart and found 3 small void stamp marks in white on the front of the package. Anyone have any idea of what it could mean?

JediTricks
09-22-2004, 04:18 PM
Honestly, that seems very weird and I've never heard of it. Just a guess, but perhaps a customer was trying to devalue the toy so the scalpers in your area would have the only mint ones, that happens around my town a lot. They have "void" stampers in the office supplies section after all.

seanmcfripp
09-24-2004, 08:38 PM
Hmmm, I don't know if everyone is quite understanding what JediTricks is warning about here. The issue with Vader's knee isn't really like the problems that occur with McFalane toys (pegs snapping due to plastic expansion or paint sticking, etc.), the problem is something else completely. I should know, because it happened to my Vader.

Think about your own knee for a second, in relation to how it looks when you are stading up with you feet pointed in front of you...notice how you have a knee cap that is always oriented straight out in one particular way. Now imagine that you have a cut joint just below your knee and just above it. Now imagine your knee is turned 90 degrees to the left or right, but the rest of your leg hasn't moved (meaning your foot is still pointing straight, your thigh hasn't moved, but your knee is aimed directly to your left or right). What would happen if you tried to bend your knee back and forth like you normally would? It wouldn't move, it would only move right and left. But imagine if someone tried to force moving it back and forth (front to back)...your knee would break because it's not designed to do move that way. THAT is what happens with the VOTC Vader's knee.

There is a cut joint just above the knee and just above the boot. In moving the leg around, it's easy for the orientation of the knee to end up like the scenario I described before...foot is pointed forward, but the knee joint is pointed to the left or right. The shin and knee armor, which is attatched to the mold of the lower leg, covers the joint, so you can't really see which way the knee is oriented. If you're not careful (like I wasn't) you may try to bend the knee back and forth, when it's aimed left or right. There's not much plastic connecting the outer "ball" of the joint to the peg that goes into the boot, and that's what ends up tearing apart. It's really kind of a poor design if you ask me.

I kicked myself when it happened to me, because I had read this post prior to getting him. In my haste, I didn't really pay attention to what JediTricks was explaining, and now I have a Vader with a partially broken knee. Just thought I'd try to help clarify so others don't make the same mistake. :D

JediTricks
09-24-2004, 11:46 PM
Great clarification, I only wish I had been able to put it in those terms so folks like you wouldn't have had this happen.

I totally agree that this is a design flaw, the bottom of that hinge where the leg actually breaks is WAY too small, it'd be like if your knee was connected to your shin only by a pinky finger on either side.