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Rocketboy
08-27-2004, 10:28 AM
Hopefully I don't get too burned for this...

I've noticed lately that people seem to be showing a lot of hatred for Star Wars around here, especially for the Prequels (and the modified versions of the OT to a lesser extent).

If I don't like something, there's no way I'm going to shell out any time or money for it. Take LOTR for example. I have spent a greand total of $1 on them. I rented the first one (for $1) and thought it was amazingly dull. It took me 4 sittings to get through it. A friend paid for me to see the 2nd, because he swore it would be a lot better - I was just as bored. Still haven't seen the 3rd and probably never will. I don't like it. It's not my thing. I choose not to support it.
I understand Star Wars is a different kind of thing, but the PT is far far different than the OT. That seems to be why many people hate it.

So basically what I am asking is: If you hate the Prequels and modified OT so much, why do you continue to support it in almost every conceivable way?

(Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but there isn't a general Star Wars thread.)

El Chuxter
08-27-2004, 11:06 AM
I don't hate the prequels, but in a lot of ways I think they're not as strong as the CT. There are things that can be improved upon, and I think a good deal of it is due to Lucas surrounding himself with yes-men. Coppola and others weren't afraid to tell him in the 70s that long sequences of the Rebels whistling nonchalantly in the corridors of the Death Star and weird asides about midget aliens didn't fit the movie. Who has the guts now to tell him a bunch of fart jokes don't, either?

I think both TPM and AOTC have a lot of potential. In fact, if you took the IMAX edit of AOTC and restored the Senate sequences that were cut for that format, I think the result would be on par with ESB, easily.

As for changes, I wouldn't mind him changing anything if he would accept that, while he owns the movies and can do anything, he is destroying film history. SE's and DVD versions are not the films that revolutionized the entertainment industry and that a generation grew up with. Look at any feature about the impact of SW that's been made in the past five years, and you will see Melas and Ketwol in the Cantina, and a shockwave from the Death Star. That's not the way it was.

And the replacement of Sebastian Shaw is appallingly disrespectful. Imagine if the director of Gone with the Wind (sorry, don't know the name) decided in his old age that Carrot Top would be a more suitable Rhett Butler (maybe because he'd since come up with a prequel in which we see young Rhett as an annoying orange-haired buffoon) and digitally replaced Clark Gable throughout. Would folks stand for it? I doubt it, and it's the same thing.

This isn't merely cleaning up a goof where we see Harrison's reflection between Indy and the cobra. It's not Stephen King realizing that he gave Roland's first love two different names over the course of three decades and fixing it in reprints of The Gunslinger (or Tolkien revising Bilbo's tale of getting the Ring from Gollum to fit LOTR better).

Spielberg understood folks want the original ET. Why can't Lucas accept we want the original Star Wars?

I'll be buying the DVDs, because most of the changes don't bother me from a storytelling perspective, and because I want the better sound and image. But I know there are several (kidhuman comes to mind, as he's said it many a time) who won't be buying it and supporting Lucas in this.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-27-2004, 05:05 PM
And about stillakid. If he hates everything so much, why does he even go on here? Isn't there something he could be doing as a better usage of his time? He's entitled to his opinion, but he's strange. I know I don't go on Pokémon websites all day and talk to people about why it sucks so bad. I don't know why he does the same for SW.

B'Omarr Monkey
08-27-2004, 05:12 PM
While being very critical of the PT and the continual monkeying around that Lucas is doing with the OT, I do not hate SW, the PT or Mr. Lucas. The problems I have are that the magic of the OT which includes its sense of humor and sense of awe, are not present in the PT. Lucas wisely hired decent writers to help him with the OT, but pretty much did everything himself on the PT (AOTC was marginally better than TPM, possibly because Lucas had a writing assist). I've said this elsewhere, so to be brief, I think many of the problems with the PT stem from Lucas embracing this notion that he intentionally melded all of these old myths and historical events into a meaningful whole, rather than having paid homage to the Flash Gordon serials he grew up on, which is what he did. The PT now takes itself too seriously with it's quasi-religious and mythological portents. Lucas also pandered with the PT. Let's face it, if Boba Fett hadn't become the popular character that he ended up being, there's no way there would have been a Jango Fett in the PT, let alone the important role he ended up having. The Pt also strains credibility with the ever tightening circle of small world coincidences in terms of how all the characters relate to one another--Impoverished, most likely, illiterate slave-boy Anakin whipping together advanced technological vehicles and an advanced AI, who happens to end up back at the same moisture farm 20+ years later with Anakin's son. Pleeeeease.

These criticisms are due to the important effect that the OT had on my upbringing, and the note in how second rate the PT is in comparison, when in fact it should be so much better considering how long Lucas had to think about it, let alone the technological advances he'd been waiting for. It says a lot when the Clone Wars animated series managed to be much more exciting than either prequel movie, and it really made the Jedi appear to be a force to be reckoned with, instead of the lame cannon fodder that they were in AOTC--and it did it all with very little dialogue. If the PT movies had been as good as the cartoons, not only would I be praising them left and right, they would have had the same cultural impact that the OT had. Instead, the PT has left almost no mark whatsoever on the conscience of the general public. This is why kids are not clamoring for these toys in droves, like when the OT came out.

For me, one of the biggest draws about SW, and one of the reasons I support it in spite of it's failings, is the production design. Even as a kid I was amazed by the implied history of this lived in world. It was such a contrast to the gleaming futuristic presentations of sci fi movies previous to SW, and I think it's this lived in world, where everything looks like it belongs, functions, and has a back story, that the eu was able to take off as sucessfully as it has.

This is why I'm so interested in having toys made of background characters as opposed to the perfect Jedi Anakin Skywalker. Anakin's not a very interesting character in the PT. CZ-3, who's just a droid in the background, is at least, ineteresting looking and he can have whatever character traits I want him to have.

Mandalorian Candidat
08-27-2004, 06:11 PM
I don't hate SW at all, just Rick McCallum. IMO, our world would be a better place if we could get rid of Ricky-dick, Wal-Mart, and Big Oil. ;)

Bosskman
08-27-2004, 06:48 PM
I don't hate SW, not even the PT. Sure there are PARTS of it I don't like but that doesn't mean I hate it. I think a lot of us at times put the OT on some sort of pedestal and almost consider it sacriledge to even compare the new movies to it but here are a few things I thought up, please don't flame me for them:

1. People (ie the general public) are so innnudated with special effects nowadays that there will never be another "Star Wars phenomenon" like there was way back when, In terms of special effects NOTHING could touch SW for years, unitl CGI. PERIOD. No matter how good the special effects are in the prequels, people just are not impressed with that sorta stuff anymore.

2. Kids don't play with toys like we used to. Everythings computer this and Playstation that. Sure, some kids want toys and do play with them, but it's nowhere near the way it was back in the golden age of toys, when toys were TOYS and not the cool movie-replicas and statuesque figures we know and love today. Things just are not that way anymore.

3. The media is fickle. Everything has their 15 minutes nowadays. EVERYTHING. Star Wars can't compete with reality TV, the final episode of Freiends, child molester priests, contractors getting beheaded, Martha Stewart, etc. They just go on from one thing to another to another, to another. The media is all over something for, at the most, a few months, and then it's never heard from again. Take LOTR for example. When ROTK won all those awards it was EVERYWHERE for a few weeks, not it's nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people only like what they're told to. (Well some people do) But the media now is not what it once was back when the OT came out. There is no way it could sustain6 years worth of SW like it did back then.

4. Lucas is a fool. There I said it. The sluggard takes all the credit for the work of countless people, without whom SW would be NOTHING. All this Joseph campbell crap just shows the public an image of a bloated swolen head that's soon to implode in on itself. It's this image that people get and it turns them off. Like it was said before by others, the adventure has been replaced by "myth". Pass me the pukebucket.

5. Our expectations were impossibly high. I thought about this one and it seems to me I was disapointed because I wanted to see certain things and got upset when I didn't. Next time you watch TPM or AOTC, forget about Vader, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Han, Cloud City, etc..and jusy follow where the story is going. I'm sure once ROTS is out and seen, and I sit down and watch the 6 movies back to back I'll get the same feeling I did when I was a kid, only better. We even use the term "prequel". That implies we want movies that know we already know what happens. I try to think of them as linear from 1 to 6 and they are so much better that way IMO. And yes, the "magic" is still there if we can put aside our adultness for a few hours. I'm gonna finish this thought in my next post.

Bosskman
08-27-2004, 07:00 PM
Here a a few "magic" moments in TPM and AOTC I felt anyway, were the stuff of the OT and I don't care who knows it.

1. Anakin in the junk shop. Forget the fact that he becomes Vader and immagine what it would be like to be a kid in the SW universe. The first time we see Anakin in the Junk shop reminds me of the Ewok movies so much it aint funny. While not the OT proper, as a kid, I did not differentiate between the OT and the Ewok movies. As far as I knew then, there were 5 SW movies back then. I remember getting the same feeling with the kids in the Ewok movies, them growing up with all these gadgets and beasts and space travel and aliens and whatnot and thinking them everday mundane things.

2. The Nemoidians. These are cheesy SW aliens as good as any in the OT. The voices, the actions, everything about them screams SW to me.

3. When Yoda lifts the crane in the hanger on Geonosis. Screw all the philosophizing Jedi crap spewed by Mace and Qui-Gon. Here's freaking Yoda pulling a Luke and saving his freinds from certain death rather that stopping Dooku and severely damaging Palpy's plans. Even the music is a foreshadowing of him lifting the X-Wing from the swamp. When I saw that, and just after that fight screne, I thought to myself: YODA.


I'll post more later, I gotta crap.

Kidhuman
08-27-2004, 07:28 PM
I dont hate the prequels. I rather enjoy them. I think the story is coming along great. Its like reading a book, I cant make a decision until I read the end. Lucas has one oppurtunity to make the continuity good. If he F's up EP3, then the first two were for nothing.

Now, onto the next issue, the OT. The OT is awesome, in its original format. I understand the sprucing up of the effects and all. What I hate is the chagning the storyline. He took Han, from a ruthless villian and turned him into a folk hero. Sure he still has is past as a smuggler, but it seems to have been taken away from him somewhat in having Greedo shoot first. It turned his personality completely around from our original view of him.

Adding Jabba the Hutt was completely dumb IMO. He had no right to be there. And if Jabba wanted him dead so badly, why did he let him go when he had him in Mos Eisley?

Changing Jabbas Palace music scene was also a horrid move by Lucas. Honestly, I want to know what the hell he is smoking, becuuse it must be some good sh*t.

When he took what we enjoyed in our childhood, and completely revamped it into this monstrosity, he p**sed alot of people off. And now on top of changing it, he straight up refuses to give us the movies in the form that made him a household name. That is why he has been removed from my Christmas card list. I will refuse to buy these DVD sets on principle alone. I got my bootlegs, so Lucas can go SUCK-A-TASH as far as I am concerned.

Rocketboy
08-27-2004, 08:37 PM
Wow, I was totally expecting to be burned by this thread.
Thank you all for your intelligent responses.

All of you have made your points very well.
I (almost) totally agree with everything Bosskman said.

JediTricks
08-27-2004, 10:02 PM
I've said this before, but Star Wars is a rich, diverse universe with films and many different EU-bearing formats, just because I don't like the NJO tales doesn't mean I'm not a SW fan.


So basically what I am asking is: If you hate the Prequels and modified OT so much, why do you continue to support it in almost every conceivable way? Well, with TPM, I admit I was a sucker, I saw it a lot, but half of those theatrical viewings were pre-purchased tickets and I did want to see all the little things. As for AOTC, I saw it 3 times in theaters, once on opening day at the Chinese theater (which is a tradition for me), once for SW's 25th anniversary at my favorite neighborhood independent theater, and once on the last day at the IMAX theater just to see it that way. I've only watched it once or twice on DVD, and that was merely for the commentary tracks. With both films though, I went the 2nd time because wanted to give them another chance in their intended format (theatrical) in case I was missing something that first time - both let me down miserably. I don't hate these films, but I don't like them either, they are in my mind only 2nd-rate EU with a big budget and a few random good pieces that are strung together with a lot of icky-icky goo.

As for these modified CT releases, I want the DVDs for the commentaries and the DVD-quality image, but I will still loathe the horrible SE and post-SE changes that are on them. Ultimately, I support the things about SW that I like and minimize my financial support of those that I do not.

But I will say this, the PTs have been dampening my affection for the OT a little because they're changing the context of things in those original films, now they're even changing the content, and I don't like my Star Wars being impacted that way.

B'Omarr Monkey
08-27-2004, 11:42 PM
I think one of the things that's lacking in the PT, and is also the primary reason that Lucas has to tinker with the OT to make the six films together, is that I get the sense that Lucas did not sit down and watch the OT again before he wrote any of the PT films. If he did he could have addressed many of the discrepencies that have occurred so far, or prevented them from happening at all. For ROTS already, without any spoiler info we've got the problem of "That's a name I haven't gone by since well before you were born." Do you really think that ROTS is going to start with everyone calling Mr. Kenobi, "Ben" instead of Obi-Wan. They'll have to, if Laucas is to be consistent with the OT.

This could be deemed as being nitpicky,( I love the Universal Horror Movies of the 1930s and 1940s which run rampant with continuity problems) but since he claims to be so into the details, then there's no excuse for it. It's sloppy, and hardly worthy of mythmaking.

I don't know if it's being jaded now, or not, but I'm with JT. When I saw TPM in the theatres, I was underwhelmed almost from the word go. There was no sense of wonder in the movie. It substituted novelty and excitement with sheer numbers, speed and volume (just like every other summer movie). Take ANH, there's the opening shot of that Star Destroyer coming in overhead and going on forever, every new character; the droids, the Jawas, etc., the landspeeder, Luke with the 2 setting suns, and of course the cantina. That's just the first 40 minutes or so. Remember the first time you saw the MF go to light speed? TPM didn't give any of that. There was no tension when the giant fish tried to eat the sub, the big ground battle was more goofy than exciting. The pod race was pretty cool, but like everything else, it was edited so fast, it took me several viewings to really get my bearings, and that goes for most of the detail work as well. Back to the cantina. When we went in there, we got to look around. Lucas showed us all of those aliens in there, in the PT, we don't get that, everything is either a whip pan across a scene or micro-edits. Did anyone get a good look at Pablo Jill in AOTC? The Senate? Heck, the meeting between Dooku and all the various guild members? I remember when I heard about the lightsaber fight (Obi-Wan vs Jango) that took place in the rain, and I kept thinking how cool that would be with the rain sizzling on the lightsaber blade with all the steam coming off of it. It wasn't there. Even Darth Maul, poster child for TPM, did nothing in the movie. They could have really set him up as some kick-*** Jedi killer, but did nothing with him.

stillakid
08-28-2004, 12:22 AM
And about stillakid. If he hates everything so much, why does he even go on here? Isn't there something he could be doing as a better usage of his time? He's entitled to his opinion, but he's strange. I know I don't go on Pokémon websites all day and talk to people about why it sucks so bad. I don't know why he does the same for SW.


Good question. Why the hell do I spend time here? :confused:



;)


While I mull that one over, I'd like to point you at JediTricks post above as we are essentially on the same page. Someone else suggested that "expectations were impossibly high." I vehemently disagree with that statement and would change it to, "our expectations were high." They were simply high, not impossibly, but just high and for good reason. The OT films were good enough to capture our spirits over 25 years ago and keep them this long to adulthood. Yes, they were that good. So again, as mentioned over and over and over again, it was entirely justifiable that we have high expectations because the OT set the bar there. Impossibly high? No. No way. That's just one of those excuses that apologists toss out there to justify their own counter opinions. It somehow makes them feel better thinking that the rest of us are just asking for too much that GL can't deliver.

But to your question. Why do we continue to talk about it when we are so disenchanted with the product? I can't speak for anyone else, but quite honestly, for me, it's fun. :D No, it's not that I get a particular kick out of lambasting the Prequels in particular. It's that I enjoy critiquing films (scripts/stories) as a general rule. It just so happens that I know Star Wars very well and more than that, it is more than just a "hobby" for me. It is the reason I chose the career path that I have.

From what I've garnered from reading posts here for years, most of the people here have "regular" jobs while Star Wars is just a weekend type hobby. I'm in the film business because of Star Wars. And I'm not unique, not by a longshot. Just today I was shooting some interviews with a very famous director who was very influenced by Star Wars as a young kid. For people like us (working in Hollywood), George gave us something that touched us in such a way that it defined what we would become...not just after work or on weekends, but every day. Would we be here if Star Wars had not been made? Maybe. Sure, perhaps some other film would have been the catalyst and we'd follow that property or director around like a puppy dog. But in this case, Star Wars was the one.

So when the Prequels were released into the world, we expected something at least on par with that which drove us into adulthood careers. What we got instead was something so vastly undeserved of the Star Wars name that shock and disappointment followed. So began the process of trying to figure out exactly what went wrong. To do that requires an almost surgical examination of the film, the script, and all of the elements. This is what Lucas Worshiper and SSG member JarJarBinks describes as "nitpicking." To those of us with active careers in the film industry, it is research. Plenty of movies are f'd up for one reason or another, but the Star Wars saga makes a particularly good case study primarily because of it's initial success. We talk about it because we care about it.

TPM in particular and to an extent AOTC are flawed films. Period. No amount of rationalization will ever change that. The fact that such extensive rationalization is necessary indicates that there are fundamental flaws. So in fact, those of us who are brave enough to recognize and admit the flaws are bigger fans of what Star Wars really is and should be. Those that settle for and accept what Star Wars is becoming can't be true fans of Star Wars itself, but are merely cheerleaders for George Lucas and any whim that crosses his mind. An idea is a separate entity from the person that expresses it. George is not Star Wars. He owns the legal rights, but that does not exempt him from being able to screw it up. He admits that himself on the TPM DVD. So an 11th hour explanation that George "meant to do this from the beginning" or other such nonsense comes off as wholly disingenuous as more and more fans rebel against the decisions of Lucas and Co.

I don't know. The whole thing is silly in the end. It's just a frickin' movie. Some of us critique it and some people get all bent out of shape because we're attacking their hobby or something. :rolleyes: So, like it if you want. Don't like it. Whatever. Who cares? We all have different reasons for watching the films and/or collecting plastic bits of junk related to them. Nobody is telling anyone else what to like or not like. But when someone tosses out a "reason" for why they like something (or not), then it is open-season on it. There is a difference between opinion and well-informed opinion. For instance, I can have the opinion that all DNA research is waste of time. Like SSG member, I can stand up on my pedestal and proclaim that I have my opinion and will keep it no matter what anyone says! :mad: Well, that's nice hyperbole and all, but it doesn't make my opinion about DNA research very valid, particulary since I don't know much about DNA research, how far it's come, or what it can do for the greater good. So my "opinion" of DNA research is not only un-informed, but just flat out wrong. But it's my opinion dammit and I'm sticking to it! .............. Does that make sense to you? Then why would TheDarthVader's "opinion" of TPM?

Oh well. Whatever. Find your passion and enjoy life. That's all any of us can do. :)

Does that explain it? I'll be happy to address any concerns or further questions you might have. :)

Bosskman
08-28-2004, 07:02 AM
Once again, the mighty stillakid has spoken and has shown us our stupidity. You're right stillakid, I'm a "cheerleader for George Lucas", as many of my previous posts on these boards clearly indicates. I'm not a "true fan" of Star Wars either, or at least not as big a one as you.

In all seriousness I will respond in part to the "impossibly high expectations" flame I got. I was born in 1977. I never actually saw the whole first movie until I borrowed the THX version in the 90s. ESB, ROTJ, the Ewok movies, some of what I knew of ANH, the cartoons, the toys, the burger king glasses, the pencil cases, the bed sheets, the busted AT AT in my freind's garage, the X-Wing Luke I crushed in a vice and threw down a hole, the commercials for Yoda, the Rancor, the muppet babies SW spoof, the Max Rebo Band, crashing the millenium Falcon in my back-yard sand pile, THAT is what Star Wars was for me as a kid. I never read any internet spoilers for ESB and ROTJ (I was 3 and 6 respectively when they came out and there was NO FREAKING INTERNET) I had NO expectations whatsoever. I think I probably saw parts of ROTJ before ESB. I was still shocked to learn that Vader was Luke's father. I was more interested in the Tauntauns, AT ATs, Jabba's Palace and the Ewoks than I was in Han, Luke, or Leia. I barely remember the emperor and didn't know who Tarkin was. My point is, none of that mattered. I loved Star Wars and always did.

When I heard they were making the 3 prequels I was already back into SW, moreso than I was when I was a kid. I saw all the SEs in the theatres and liked them better than I did when I was a kid with certain exceptions that I have already made known elsewhere on these boards. It was at that time, however, that the adult in me was most prevalent. I dismissed the Ewok movies as "terrible" after I rented them at blockbuster and saw them for the first time in over a decade. I even went so far as to "hate" Ewoks in general. It bothered me that you could see flames in space. It bothered me that the Rancor matte lines made the whole scene look fake. It bothered me that the original trench battle on the first death star looked terribly fake and the SE one wasn't that much of an improvement. It bothered me that the Imperial march was not in ANH. It bothered me that there were 100 "inconsistencies" in the OTs plot, characters, effects and everything else. The "magic" was fading, not because of the films but because of ME. This was before I even saw anything of TPM (or Episode One as it was called back then). My expectations for TPM were so high it wasn't evn funny and part of me was terribly dissapointed with what came out. But then there was the part that nearly defacated myself when I saw the first trailer on Entertainment tonight. The part that was engared but no less excited when I could only get the sound when I downloaded the second trailer from the net.

It's when I stop critiquing the movies that I appreciated in them what I always loved in Star Wars.

Stillakid, I think you should seriously consider changing your username. I have some suggestions for you but I got a feeling you probably wouldn't like any of them.

rbaumhauer
08-28-2004, 11:00 AM
Bosskman - like stillakid said, if you like the PT, fine, no problem. While some of the stuff he says may rub you the wrong way, I think he makes a lot of valid points.

One thing you can't get around is how old each of us was when we saw the different movies in the OT, and what effect that had on how we viewed them. For instance, I've seen posts from a lot of people who were born in the mid-to-late-70s for whom ROTJ is their favorite from the OT, just because it was the first SW movie they could really remember clearly.

At heart, I think the question that Rocketboy was asking is directed at a group of fans who are old enough to have seen the OT in theaters and remember them clearly, as I think these people (myself included) are the core of the group that is vocally "anti-PT/SE/etc". These weren't just movies for us, they were formative experiences - they helped shape the people we would become, to a greater or lesser extent. Part of the experience was waiting the interminable 3 years between movies, reading every issue of "Starlog" and "Fantastic Films" for news on the production and new characters, playing with our Star Wars toys during the long summers. We were, I think, the generation most effected by the OT, and we are very protective of it.

Because of when you were born, your experience was fundamentally different from ours - this doesn't make you less of a fan, but it does change your viewpoint. For us, our interest in film itself was brought about by the OT - in a lot of ways, they defined what a great movie could be. That's why the PT has been so disappointing, on so many levels - it's being made by the guy who defined movie greatness for us, and he seems to have forgotten all of the lessons that we learned in the first place because of his work.

It's (in a somewhat disturbing way) like being lied to by your parents, or any other adult you trusted - "George, you told us when we were kids that these things were important and worthwhile, but your recent work suggests that you either don't believe those things yourself, or that other considerations are now more important."

So, you made some good points about how the world has changed in the last 25+ years, and those are all valid. However, for those of us who lived through the experience the first time around, the quality of the PT is very disappointing. We're still waiting 3 years between movies, but the payoff at the end of the wait doesn't seem to justify the energy we put into continuing to care about these movies.

One other point - for me, I think the writing was on the wall with ROTJ, so I'd go so far as to say that ANH and ESB are in a completely different class from what followed, primarily because Lucas changed the focus, the whole point, of the Saga. ROTJ has its moments (much like the PT), but disappoints in the end by taking the easy path and tying things up with a nice bow on top. I think ROTJ showed us the birth of the NEW George Lucas, the Lucas who knew he had a license to print money and whose primary concern became not screwing up that aspect of his creation. He never wanted to be a part of Hollywood, and Star Wars became his ticket out of town, if it could just generate a big enough revenue stream. ROTJ marked the death of "George Lucas, movie-maker", and the birth of "George Lucas, master marketer".

And finally, I think stillakid has every right to use that name - by his choice of career, he has maintained a connection to the thing he fell in love with as a kid. For good or ill, that's something a lot of can't claim to have done.

Rick

stillakid
08-28-2004, 12:13 PM
Thanks, Rick. I'd also like to add real quickly that it is disappointing now. This 3 year wait just isn't what it used to be. I remember as you describe, waiting with baited breath for the new episode, excited for what was coming next. Lucas captured the best that the serial story could offer.

But the new waiting game isn't of excitement anymore...it's more like waiting to see how much worse it can get. Maybe we continue to talk about this stuff due to that "train wreck" psychology. As bad as it is, we find it hard to look away.

Seriously, Bosskman (and the rest in your camp), I'd much prefer to be discussing with enthusiasm the newest plot developments and "what will they do?" type things. That would be a lot more fun and satisfying. But Lucas isn't delivering so those aren't the kind of discussions that are appropriate anymore. So while Star Wars now exists in this kind of "sigh" sort of place, I look forward to new films, like SKYCAPTAIN, hoping that it captures that spiri that ANH gave to audiences.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
08-28-2004, 12:21 PM
Well stillakid, I have ot say that your answer actually made sense. I still find it odd, though.

Bosskman, after the many references to using the bathroom, I honestly think you have IBS. ;) :D

Now here's what I have to say on this subject.

I was seven when the Special Editions came out. It was probably about the same age that most of you guys were when you saw it in 1977, right? I loved them, all three of them. I think ESB was my least favorite, it hardly had the same cool aliens and ships and stuff that the other ones had. Now I like it a lot more, now I know about all the deep stuff that's in there. Back then, I couldn't care less about storytelling, or mythmaking, or any of that mumbo-jumbo. I just wanted to see some cool crap, and I did. I liked the Jabba scene. I liked the Jedi Rocks sequence. I didn't know that the Death Star scene was different. I didn't know these weren't the same as the original versions (apart from the Jabba scene). Did I care? No. Do I care now? No.

The same thing happened in 1999 when TPM came out. I loved it! I even liked Jar Jar - well, not as much any more, but he's okay other than the poopy jokes and stuff. Darth Maul was awesome, so was the podrace. It had all the same stuff that made the OT cool. The midi-chlorians, I didn't and don't care about. They aren't the Force, they only tell the Jedi about it and help them to be more in-tune with it. For all we know, it was some story made up by Palpatine and Dooku in an attempt to breed the perfect killing machine by way of impregnating Shmi. Maybe not, but we won't know until next year.

By the time that AOTC came out, I was 12, and already understanding the grand tale that spanned six movies, two generations, and 36 years. Does that mean I hated AOTC because I couldn't just sit back and watch it for enjoyment? No! In fact, AOTC was my favorite (and still is) out of all of them! Seeing Jango using all of that stuff blew my mind, especially those seismic charges! Finally getting to see tons of Jedi in their prime was great! I nearly exploded with glee when Yoda was fighting!!! I loved every minute of it! I honestly don't think the love scenes are that bad. Yes, some of the acting isn't top-rate, but it works. Anakin should be embarassed and uncomfortable in the fireplace scene. He wanted to express his feelings, but felt a little weird in doing so. Same with Padmé, in the arena.

Anyway, back to the original movies. Does anybody honestly think that the movie would have done nearly as well if it was just about some kid on a farm who goes with some old man to save some girl? Yawn, we've seen that a million times. What made it great was that it had so much cool "extra" stuff - the cantina, the Falcon, the Death Star, etc. The "extra" stuff is what makes them work.

I have seen the original versions of these movies, and honestly, the SEs aren't that different from the originals. IMO, they're much better, and closer to what George originally wanted. Nothing in the new ones changes the story of the OT. Not even Anakin appearing as Hayden Christensen in ROTJ. If someone can point out to me how any of the SE or DVD modifications changes the original stories of the films, I'll be glad to listen. Oh, and I don't care who shoots first, just so long as it doesn't look as bad as it does in the SE. :D

Deoxyribonucleic
08-28-2004, 01:07 PM
So basically what I am asking is: If you hate the Prequels and modified OT so much, why do you continue to support it in almost every conceivable way?



Simply put, I don't!

Only stuff in my room is OT stuff exception being ayaala secura, barriss offee and dexter jetster figures because I like the way those characters look! And I really, truly dislike the prequels. Also, I think one of the biggest "beefs" people have about the OT SE, is just that the original OT will not be on dvd, ever! And it's ok to like some things about the SE and not others...just because people don't like greedo shooting first for instance doesn't mean they don't like the digital redo of the death star trench fight because it doesn't change the story like the greedo scene does.

That's my two cents ;)

:)

stillakid
08-28-2004, 07:06 PM
I have seen the original versions of these movies, and honestly, the SEs aren't that different from the originals. IMO, they're much better, and closer to what George originally wanted. Nothing in the new ones changes the story of the OT. Not even Anakin appearing as Hayden Christensen in ROTJ. If someone can point out to me how any of the SE or DVD modifications changes the original stories of the films, I'll be glad to listen. Oh, and I don't care who shoots first, just so long as it doesn't look as bad as it does in the SE. :D


Uh, yeah, I'll point out a couple. Han shooting first turns him from a bad guy you love (but shouldn't) into a "well, he's not so bad afterall" kind of guy. The entire arc changes with that one choice. So aside from being really dumb (seriously, Greedo's gun wasn't even pointed at Han), it changes everything we are meant to think about Han Solo.

Luke screaming like a little girl from his fall in ESB. In the OT, he went down like a man. Stoic. It was a decision he makes consciously. We can see that on his face as he looks down and back up to Vader. He lets go and accepts what he assumes will be death in place of taking Vader's hand. So having him scream like a little girl on the way down alters that choice and makes us think less of him than we are supposed to. Why that was changed is still beyond me.

Vader saying that verbiose speech about having his Star Destroyer prepare for his arrival (ESB) in place of "Bring my shuttle" takes away from Vader's normally terse and to the point manner. In fact, the only reason I can think of for why it was changed was so that Lucas could drop in some left over gratuitous shots of the shuttle from ROTJ arriving in a hangar bay. You can even see the same Imperial officer greeting him. Dumb change.

While the Jabba scene in ANH was reportedly removed because of technological limitations originally, it is easy to see that the series is better for it anyway. Having Jabba being introduced in ROTJ first gives us a longterm payoff to a 3 film mystery about Han's nemesis. But dumping Jabba so haphazardly into the SE of ANH adds nothing to that film nor to the series in general. It was outstanding in its pointlessness.

And to the future of the Supernifty Editions, seeing Hayd-akin instead of Sebast-akin is maybe one of the dumbest moves of all. The only "good" version of Anakin we ever see is Jake-akin in TPM. We never witness a "good" Hayd-akin, but we see a "good" Sebast-akin. So after Vader "dies," the audience should be shown one of the "good" versions of the character (Jake or Sebastian), not the one that whines and carries on like a 3 year old. It's a flaw made for no other reason than to marry the Prequels and the OT together with a jackhammer, logic bedamned.

Slicker
08-28-2004, 09:20 PM
The thing I hate about the SE is that in ANH in Mos Eisley every f-ing scene is clogged up with fat ***** ronto's. What's up with that?

Darth Tornado
08-28-2004, 10:12 PM
It is easy to see what makes the prequels so lame

Computer animation: Sometimes you just wish that comp tech didnt reach this far cause it is being WAY over used. You can spot computer animated characters from a mile away and it makes things look like cartoons, its more roger rabbit than star wars.

Kiddanizing it: The OT was a perfect balance of kid and adult fantasy. The prequles go down a level to be more kid orientated(and the fact that Lucas has a young adopted son explains that)

No chemistry: The characters in the prequles have no chemistry they dont fit together. Anakin and Padme are the worse, Han and Leias flirting was way more interesting and realistic than Anakins and padmes time together(Lets see he murders woman and children and she just seems to ignore that fact, well I guess they did kill his mother :ermm: ) and look how fast they get married you just know its destined to fail ;)

Mystery is taken out of things: The force is explained(and really baddly)
Anaikin is a whiney brat which totally ruins the power and aura of Darth Vader. Boba is a cloned wimp(hmmm same genetic material as stormtroopers who miss all the time) and personally I would rather have not known what Boba looks like.

So the prequels have taken some things away that I think made the OT great and I find Lucas with the OT DVD changes is trying to make the OT fit with the prequels when he should of made the prequels fit the OT. ANAKIN SHOULD OF BEEN OLDER DAGNABBIT!!!!!!!!!

And think of this I think it would of been better to make Alderaan the staging area for the prequels than naboo I think it would of been more intersting to work with that world since it is so significant instead of introducing a new world we dont really care about and that is not even mentioned whatsover in the OT.

Kidhuman
08-29-2004, 08:28 AM
JabbaJohnL,

I can completely understand why you like the SE. You grew up with them. We grew up with the Original versions. The unchanged versions which formed us into the people we are today. The love we had/have for the movies is slowly waning with every change and every addition to the movies.

I was 4 when I first laid eyes upon this new world that Lucas invented. I walked out of the movie all slack jawed and stuff. When my dad bought the movie on Beta-max(yes I am that old) I was estatic. I got to relive the fun over and over again. Now the images are all I have left. The memories and such of ga time when we were innocent. Because it has been stripped away by this monster so he can "do what he wants". Basically its "F*** the people that made me famous"

I completely agree with Stillakid's(sips Kool-aid) comments. All the changes are useless and pointless. From Jabba, to Jabba's palace, it is a waste. Give us what we grew up wuith Lucas, make the fans happy that made you rich you selfish bastid.

JEDIpartner
08-29-2004, 08:49 AM
"Can you believe they made us fly all the way to France just so we could get more blurry photos of Princess Diana running around topless at the beach? I already had similar photographs in HELLO! Magazine. But to think they made me fly to another country for more of the same... it's just downright criminal. That's what it is!"

- Dawn French, French & Saunders, ca. 1995

Droid
08-29-2004, 11:10 AM
Here a a few "magic" moments in TPM and AOTC I felt anyway, were the stuff of the OT and I don't care who knows it.

1. Anakin in the junk shop. Forget the fact that he becomes Vader and immagine what it would be like to be a kid in the SW universe. The first time we see Anakin in the Junk shop reminds me of the Ewok movies so much it aint funny. While not the OT proper, as a kid, I did not differentiate between the OT and the Ewok movies. As far as I knew then, there were 5 SW movies back then. I remember getting the same feeling with the kids in the Ewok movies, them growing up with all these gadgets and beasts and space travel and aliens and whatnot and thinking them everday mundane things.

2. The Nemoidians. These are cheesy SW aliens as good as any in the OT. The voices, the actions, everything about them screams SW to me.

3. When Yoda lifts the crane in the hanger on Geonosis. Screw all the philosophizing Jedi crap spewed by Mace and Qui-Gon. Here's freaking Yoda pulling a Luke and saving his freinds from certain death rather that stopping Dooku and severely damaging Palpy's plans. Even the music is a foreshadowing of him lifting the X-Wing from the swamp. When I saw that, and just after that fight screne, I thought to myself: YODA.

Anakin in the junk shop was botched. I liked that he just walked in, kind of like Luke just walked up at the droid sale, without much fanfare. But that "are you an angel?" business made my head hurt. Honestly, to bring in an Earth element like angels. It's like if he said, "Have you ever eaten chocolate? I hear the deep space pilots talking about chocolate."

The Nemoidians. I will never understand why Lucas had those broken Asian accents. They are offensive and absurd. What if Lucas had had them speaking in John Cleese Frenchman accents, would that have been OK? I don't think anyone was trying to be offensive, but how could it be that someone didn't point that out before the film got released?

I personally didn't like seeing Yoda fight. Sure, Yoda COULD throw down, but who wants to see Gandhi fight? And seeing Yoda lift the "crane" took away from lifting the X-wing in my opinion. Also, Yoda letting Dooku go to save Anakin and Obi-wan took away from his telling Luke to sacrifice Han and Leia and even Obi-wan telling Anakin to leave Padme to get to the hangar.

I like the prequels, but refuse to try and defend them as perfect. They could have been so much better and are not as good as the classic trilogy, though the classic trilogy has elements I probably would have attacked if viewing them for the first time as an adult rather than a child. But no one should accuse me of hating Star Wars. I love it enough to love it despite acknowledging its imperfections. And that to me is true love, rather than a blind devotion to insisting something is perfect.

JediTricks
08-29-2004, 08:59 PM
Also, Yoda letting Dooku go to save Anakin and Obi-wan took away from his telling Luke to sacrifice Han and Leia and even Obi-wan telling Anakin to leave Padme to get to the hangar.WOW! I had never thought of this one before, that's an excellent point. The galactic evil that Dooku escapes to unleash will tear the galaxy apart, and that's without the whole "Death Star Plans" issue which amps it up another notch. How Yoda could ever let this guy escape is totally beyond me, and I hated the whole concept of Yoda fighting in this scene in the first place (and still loathe its execution far worse).

Kidhuman
08-29-2004, 09:20 PM
OKay, but case in point is that Yoda learned from his mistake and told Luke not to go, becuase he wasnt ready yet. He wanted Luke to train and actually do what he didnt. His mistake basically cost the Universe. He didnt want that to happen again.

Edit: Where the hell is my sig? :confused: :beard:

Deoxyribonucleic
08-29-2004, 10:03 PM
WOW! I had never thought of this one before, that's an excellent point. The galactic evil that Dooku escapes to unleash will tear the galaxy apart, and that's without the whole "Death Star Plans" issue which amps it up another notch. How Yoda could ever let this guy escape is totally beyond me, and I hated the whole concept of Yoda fighting in this scene in the first place (and still loathe its execution far worse).

Yoda fighting Dooku...whose that? And whose this padme amidala everyone keeps talking about? Seems like a bunch of nonsense to me! :crazed:

JediTricks
08-29-2004, 10:49 PM
KH, I'm not buying it. All Yoda's sage wisdom from 800 years of experience and his most difficult-to-follow advice to Luke comes from an incident that happened only 20 years prior which completely rewrote the little green guy's book on a key foundation of his beliefs? Are you saying Yoda lamented saving his Jedi friends so much afterwards that it became a driving conviction? I suppose it is possible in some small way, but I don't buy it even a little.

stillakid
08-29-2004, 11:10 PM
KH, I'm not buying it. All Yoda's sage wisdom from 800 years of experience and his most difficult-to-follow advice to Luke comes from an incident that happened only 20 years prior which completely rewrote the little green guy's book on a key foundation of his beliefs? Are you saying Yoda lamented saving his Jedi friends so much afterwards that it became a driving conviction? I suppose it is possible in some small way, but I don't buy it even a little.


Precisely. That scene was nothing more than more Lucas fan-pandering to show the little guy fighting. Assuredly very little to no thought at all went into the thematic ramifications introduced by seemingly innocuous (and supposedly exciting) actions by the gnome.

Imperial Monarche
08-30-2004, 09:32 AM
And about stillakid. If he hates everything so much, why does he even go on here? Isn't there something he could be doing as a better usage of his time? He's entitled to his opinion, but he's strange. I know I don't go on Pokémon websites all day and talk to people about why it sucks so bad. I don't know why he does the same for SW.

In defense of Stillakid, which is something I wouldn't do often because I thoroughly disagree with him most of the time, he doesn't hate Star Wars. He's disappointed with what it's become. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not disappointed, but it's like the Batman series. You want them to be like the first one with Michael Keaton, but then they just went downhill. But, just because I liked the first two, that doesn't mean I need to support the rest if I don't like them. I happen to like the PT so I will constantly defend them, just like Stilla doesn't like the PT to a certain extent, so he will constantly voice his dislike. There's nothing wrong with it. It's called controversy and it's what makes the forums fun.

stillakid
08-30-2004, 09:50 AM
In defense of Stillakid, which is something I wouldn't do often because I thoroughly disagree with him most of the time, he doesn't hate Star Wars. He's disappointed with what it's become.


Thanks, IM! :) What I'm getting a kick out of most lately is that I'm somehow the poster child for those disappointed in the Prequels. I'm certainly not the only one expressing dissatisfaction...not by a long shot. But because I've become a target, it just shows that "defenders" find it easier to make the attacks on a personal basis because it is more difficult to defend the films themselves. Oh well. :D

Imperial Monarche
08-30-2004, 10:50 AM
No problem in the defense, Stilla. i just get tired of hearing people complain about those that voice their opinion against Star Wars being labeled a Star Wars Hater. It's your love for Star Wars that makes you complain. I understand that, now, even though I used to be one that called you guys haters. I revised my thinking into seeing that the complaining is your guys opinion, not mine, and that it creates the controversy that makes the forums fun to discuss. I do, sometimes, voice my disagreement with Lucas' decisions. Don't get me mistaken, though, I don't agree with your posts most of the time, but I do respect you and can tell you are very intelligent and don't back down. That inspires me to not back down either. We can just savor this moment where the two "Lucas-lovers" and "Star Wars Haters" can get along :D


(or Tolkien revising Bilbo's tale of getting the Ring from Gollum to fit LOTR better).

Oh, so it's okay for a classic and reknowned author like Tolkien to write a story later that results in him going back and adding to the Hobbit to make more sense for the later story. The part with Bilbo finding the ring did not need to be in the Hobbit. But, Lucas making changes to his own stories twenty years later, even though nothing he has done really changed any of the story just put some dumb spins on some characters (like Stilla said before, Greedo shooting first made Han an old softy and not the cold blooded smuggler he was suppost to be and Luke screaming did cheapen his decision to fall instead of accept Vader's hand), is an absolute no no because the fans of the OT don't want the classic films touched.

I too grew up with the classic movies and think that Lucas is making a mistake by not releasing those on DVD as well. The old and not particularly bad special effects did revolutionize film making and they should be preserved. That's why I plan to turn my classic, untouched OT VHS' into DVD's so I will forever have them. But, I do think that to match the quality of the PT in the over all grand scheme of the saga, they should be altered. As a six movie saga to be watched back to back, the SE are a good idea (crucify me if you want, Stilla and all the so called "Star Wars haters"), but if I'm in the mood to just watch the OT before the PT was thought of, I'd prefer the unedited versions, so that's why both should be released.

In response to the new changes to the OT, adding Hayden in the end of ROTJ doesn't disgrace Sabastian Shaw because he is still the one behind the mask when it comes off. Hayden is just the spirit, and it doesn't represent Anakin when he was good, but Anakin as a Jedi before his fall to the dark side. Saying that "Why didn't Jabba kill Han when he had the chance in Mos Eisley if he wanted him dead so bad?" is a rediculous excuse to complain that Jabba's in ANH. Never did he give me the impression he wanted Han dead...just that he wanted Han's money. It's difficult to collect from a dead guy. When the mob sends collectors to get money, they don't just kill the guy they are collecting from- they may bruise him up or try to scare him (i.e. Greedo), but killing is worthless and in the end, when Han still hadn't paid him, Jabba kept him in the carbonite but he was still alive, he just had the satisfaction that he had Han right where he wanted him. Perhaps he would thaw him someday and collect his money, but we'll never know.

Another thing I've noticed is that alot of people will complain that things happen in the PT that they wish were done a different way and say "If I were writing it?..." bullcrap. Then, those same people will complain that Lucas adds in things that the fans want to see (like Yoda fighting and having Boba Fett in AOTC). You guys can't have it both ways.

stillakid
08-30-2004, 11:00 AM
But, I do think that to match the quality of the PT in the over all grand scheme of the saga, they should be altered. As a six movie saga to be watched back to back, the SE are a good idea (crucify me if you want, Stilla and all the so called "Star Wars haters"), but if I'm in the mood to just watch the OT before the PT was thought of, I'd prefer the unedited versions, so that's why both should be released.


Crucify you? Never! I'm kind of with you on the SE thing, sort of. While I despise the changes that directly affected story and character, I see nothing wrong with cosmetic alterations to improve effects and visuals (and even sound when necessary). Some things just weren't possible to achieve in 1975, but as with anything, CG can get out of hand and just because Lucas can do something, doesn't always mean he should.

But just like early Harryhausen stuff, it would be a shame to let early innovation fade away into history. Maybe Jason and the Argonauts could be improved with CG effects, but the original versions need to be preserved so that future filmmakers (and viewers) can see the progression that has been made. The same goes for Star Wars. Sure Sy Snootles couldn't dance around that much in ROTJ, but the SE shouldn't be all that's left for future generations. It diminishes the efforts of the original artists who did the best they could with what they had.

When all of this does come to an end, if I have time and the energy, and if the Prequels have enough clips to work with, I would like to edit the crap out of all the episodes to make a Stillakid Cut. Some of the OT SE stuff would go, some would stay. The Prequels will be a bigger challenge to cut into something watchable, but it would be a worthy project. Something to pass on to the kids. :)

Deoxyribonucleic
08-30-2004, 12:36 PM
What I'm getting a kick out of most lately is that I'm somehow the poster child for those disappointed in the Prequels. I'm certainly not the only one expressing dissatisfaction...not by a long shot. But because I've become a target, it just shows that "defenders" find it easier to make the attacks on a personal basis because it is more difficult to defend the films themselves. Oh well. :D

Isn't that funny because seriously, I think I dislike the prequels more than you, yet you are always selected for execution for being THE HATER of the prequels!!

Well let me take some of your slack dear friend and announce to the world (at least these forums) loudly that I, Deoxyribonucleic, hate the prequels so much, I pretend that they weren't even made. I take the EU way more seriously than these embarrassing pieces of film! Someone said changing the OT to fit the PT was good because they are meant to be watched six in a row and have continuity...IMO, there are NO six in a row for me, only the original THREE and if continuity is an issue, it's only because these ridiculously stupid prequels effed everything up for the originals.

Now that that has been said, I'd like to say that this is only my opinion and I am happy that others are getting enjoyment out of these films because they do keep Star Wars alive and in the public eye for the time being and that is a good thing, but if anyone wants to tell me how stupid or ridiculous I am for hating the prequels, go forth, but you shall be wasting valuable energy on deaf ears!

El Chuxter
08-30-2004, 02:18 PM
Oh, so it's okay for a classic and reknowned author like Tolkien to write a story later that results in him going back and adding to the Hobbit to make more sense for the later story. The part with Bilbo finding the ring did not need to be in the Hobbit.

It's a bit different with The Hobbit/LOTR in that, according to Tolkien's notes, The Hobbit was supposed to have been written by Bilbo and LOTR by Frodo. It's not clear if he had any inkling of LOTR in mind when he wrote The Hobbit, but when he did write it, it became clear that Gollum would never give up the ring in a riddle contest. So, in order to make LOTR work, he changed the passage in subsequent editions of The Hobbit and explained that Bilbo was embarassed by how he actually stole the ring, and he (Tolkien) hadn't realized this until he translated more of the Red Book (LOTR).

It's still bending the rules, but in a lesser sense. If Lucas could come up with a convincing reason why SW is told by Han and what motivation he could possibly have to lie about Greedo shooting or not shooting (keep in mind that, if he were trying to make himself look better, Greedo shooting first would have been the "lie"), I could buy it. I think it's more likely that Tolkien will come back from the dead and re-write The Hobbit again to say that Greedo was shooting at weird angles at Bilbo and Gollum. :)

JediTricks
08-30-2004, 09:08 PM
IM, did you just compare the prequels to "Batman Forever" and "Batman & Robin"? :D ;) J/k, that was a good metaphor, if a little scary.

Imperial Monarche
08-30-2004, 11:54 PM
IM, did you just compare the prequels to "Batman Forever" and "Batman & Robin"? :D ;) J/k, that was a good metaphor, if a little scary.

Thank you...I think? :stupid: Just kidding, but being serious, I just tried to come up with the best example I could come up with that I liked the beginnings of a series of movies and was revolted with the rest. Being a sucker that i am for most movies, I find it hard to come up with a movie I didn't like. But, with the Batman films (excluding the upcoming Batman Begins), after recent viewings, realized that Batman Forever...to put it simply and bluntly, sucked! And, I have never liked Batman and Robin from the time I saw it in the theater. I only saw it the one time too which is extremely rare for me. So, that was the only example I could come up with. Whoops, I completely went off the topic of this thread.


Isn't that funny because seriously, I think I dislike the prequels more than you, yet you are always selected for execution for being THE HATER of the prequels!!

Well let me take some of your slack dear friend and announce to the world (at least these forums) loudly that I, Deoxyribonucleic, hate the prequels so much, I pretend that they weren't even made. I take the EU way more seriously than these embarrassing pieces of film! Someone said changing the OT to fit the PT was good because they are meant to be watched six in a row and have continuity...IMO, there are NO six in a row for me, only the original THREE and if continuity is an issue, it's only because these ridiculously stupid prequels effed everything up for the originals.

Now that that has been said, I'd like to say that this is only my opinion and I am happy that others are getting enjoyment out of these films because they do keep Star Wars alive and in the public eye for the time being and that is a good thing, but if anyone wants to tell me how stupid or ridiculous I am for hating the prequels, go forth, but you shall be wasting valuable energy on deaf ears!

At least when Stilla voices his opinion, he backs it up with reasons instead of just making a vague rant about his hatred for the PT. With those kind of mindless speeches about YOUR hatred for the PT, you will never gain the notorious reputation that Stilla has built for himself. But, i guess your not going to listen to what I have to say because no matter how loud i shout, my words won't penatrate the walls of your "deafness".


Crucify you? Never!

Phew!



I'm kind of with you on the SE thing, sort of. While I despise the changes that directly affected story and character, I see nothing wrong with cosmetic alterations to improve effects and visuals (and even sound when necessary). Some things just weren't possible to achieve in 1975, but as with anything, CG can get out of hand and just because Lucas can do something, doesn't always mean he should.

Like what kind of changes did you not like (exclude the Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming down the chasm...you've mentioned those already)? To be honost, except for those changes, I see no change in storyline so far.


When all of this does come to an end, if I have time and the energy, and if the Prequels have enough clips to work with, I would like to edit the crap out of all the episodes to make a Stillakid Cut. Some of the OT SE stuff would go, some would stay. The Prequels will be a bigger challenge to cut into something watchable, but it would be a worthy project. Something to pass on to the kids

I wouldn't mind seeing those myself. Will you adopt me? I'm only 22. Of course, you'd also have to adopt my wife and four month old daughter.

stillakid
08-31-2004, 12:02 AM
Like what kind of changes did you not like (exclude the Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming down the chasm...you've mentioned those already)? To be honost, except for those changes, I see no change in storyline so far. .

Um, there really wasn't much storywise. I'd also remove the godawful and entirely pointless Jabba introduction in ANH SE. Not only terribly executed, but worthless to boot. Gratuitious doesn't begin to describe it.

While I'm not seriously excited nor ridiculously against the new Jabba Band and song or the final Yanni-like end to ROTJ, they can stay or go. Those changes never really bothered me too much.

I can't think of anything blatantly awful right off hand right now, but if something else comes to mind, I'll try to revisit it here. :)




I wouldn't mind seeing those myself. Will you adopt me? I'm only 22. Of course, you'd also have to adopt my wife and four month old daughter.
Is she hot? The wife I mean.

Imperial Monarche
08-31-2004, 12:33 AM
Is she hot? The wife I mean.

Well, she would make a gold Princess Leia bikini look good. But, she is very hot and very mine. Now is where your imagination comes in. But...um...I thought you were married too?

My daughter's the most beautiful baby I have ever scene, in case you were wondering. I'm not just saying that cause she's mine either, you would have no idea how many compliments she gets when we go places. People go on and on about it. :D :D :D

Droid
08-31-2004, 09:09 AM
Hmmm, more problems with the Special Edition:

Having Rontos crossing in front of the main actors during the Sandtroopers questioning of Obi-wan was annoying. Having the Sarlaac pit become the Little Shop of Horrors creature was awful. I didn't like Boba Fett hitting on one of the dancers.

stillakid, I'm honored that you would quote my little Owen-3P0 exchange at the bottom of your messages.

stillakid
08-31-2004, 09:19 AM
stillakid, I'm honored that you would quote my little Owen-3P0 exchange at the bottom of your messages.

It would revisit your post and laugh everytime. I figured it was easier to just have it EVERYWHERE so everybody could enjoy it. :D Thanks!

Slicker
08-31-2004, 11:37 AM
Having Rontos crossing in front of the main actors during the Sandtroopers questioning of Obi-wan was annoying.I agree on this one. I think I posted elsewhere about my dislike for the stupidity of this in one scene the entire screen is taken up by a Ronto for at 2 seconds. And I don't think you even want to get me started on the Sandtrooper stepping off of the Dewback.:frus:

B'Omarr Monkey
08-31-2004, 11:07 PM
The pointlessness of the Jabba the Hutt introduction in ANH, is only exceeded by the pointlessness of the Boba Fett introduction at the end of the same scene. He's the best bounty hunter in the galaxy and he can't get better work than body guarding Jabba? Couldn't he find Han just a few blocks away? And why did it sound like he was trying to tune in a radio at the end of that scene? Was there a ballgame on?

My favorite thing about that scene, in the most ironic way, is that with all the high and mighty technology that Lucas was employing, they couldn't figure out a way to not hve to have Han step on Jabba's back (as if Jabba would toloerate that, especially with all his hired guns watching). Couldn't they have just cut away to a reaction shot from Chewie, or one of Jabba's twerps, while Jabba and han were swapping dialogue there?

What's going to be the biggest loss for me in the version 3.0 movies, is changing the voices of the stormtroopers, and I'm assuming Boba Fett as well. The original voices were the best aspects of those characters, especially Boba. That scene where the two stormtroopers are talking about cars outside the tractor beam is one of my favorite moments in ANH. It won't be the same now.

I am glad that all the English script seen on the tractor beam and presumedly on the electrobinocular readouts are going to be changed to whatever it's called Starwarsese. That was a detail that always bugged me/

JediTricks
09-01-2004, 03:07 PM
but being serious, I just tried to come up with the best example I could come up with that I liked the beginnings of a series of movies and was revolted with the rest. Being a sucker that i am for most movies, I find it hard to come up with a movie I didn't like. But, with the Batman films (excluding the upcoming Batman Begins), after recent viewings, realized that Batman Forever...to put it simply and bluntly, sucked! And, I have never liked Batman and Robin from the time I saw it in the theater. I think the Matrix series might fit with this analogy as well, or perhaps the Godfather series (I saw GF3 in the theaters on opening day, I still want that 3 hours back ;)). As for the modern Batman series, I didn't even like Batman Returns, but I understand that the majority of the series' fans did like it, so I took it that way.



What's going to be the biggest loss for me in the version 3.0 movies, is changing the voices of the stormtroopers, and I'm assuming Boba Fett as well. The original voices were the best aspects of those characters, especially Boba. That scene where the two stormtroopers are talking about cars outside the tractor beam is one of my favorite moments in ANH. It won't be the same now. This is an issue for me as well, though I don't know if it's my "biggest loss". Even the inclusion of the "Close the blast doors" line to the SEs was jarring.