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Darth Rend
09-14-2004, 03:43 PM
While reading through the "what doesn't work about ROTJ?" post, it occured to me that not everyone felt ROTJ was the weakest film. So, in the interest of fairness, I have decided to start one for A NEW HOPE, and since no movie is perfect, see what the most common problem with the first installment is for those who do not like it the best.....

(NOTE: For any of these threads. lets try to avoid "it sucks" style bashing. Just well thought out points please. :D )

Droid
09-14-2004, 04:36 PM
A New Hope is my third favorite movie of all time. It works.

However, if I was to list things (excluding Special Edition changes I hate) that could have been done better:

1. I don't think Lucas should have had Leia trek on to the Rebel base if she
thought the Falcon was being tracked. I raised this in another thread.

2. Chewbacca should have received a medal.

I don't have much. It is a very good movie.

Darth Rend
09-14-2004, 05:27 PM
To start this off:

Vader vs Obi-wan. A re-match of the ages. Student meets master. After a grueling, intense duel, leaving one horrible scared forever, the blood fued comes full circle.

Now, I understand this was the first lightsaber fight ever. I understand that Sir Alec was quite old when it was filmed. But man, that little spin-thingy he does in the middle of the fight it the goofiest move I've ever seen. The whole fight, especially compared to the fights in the other films, and ESPECIALLY if the saga is viewed in order...that fight is hardly going to seem to do justice to the rematch.

Darth Rend
09-14-2004, 05:34 PM
Actually to be the devil's advocate, Chewie really shouldn't have gotten a medal.

NOW DON"T GET ME WRONG I love Chewbacca....but he was the co-pilot. Han was the "Captian." According to the Alliance, as with all military, it is the ship's Captian who makes the descisions...In this case Chewbacca is just the "crew", so technically he was only "following orders."

I'm not trying to discredit the risks Chewbacca took, but he was following Han's lead. I think the main drive behind the "give Chewbacca a medal" mindset is that he's a cool character and we like him. In a "real" situation, Han and Luke stood out as preforming above and beyond the call of duty, they'd get the medal.

Droid
09-14-2004, 05:59 PM
Yes, but Chewbacca was not a part of the Alliance. He was a volunteer who came out of nowhere to save the Rebellion's bacon. They should have given him a medal. By your rationale he shouldn't have even been singled out at the ceremony.

JediTricks
09-14-2004, 09:07 PM
I don't think Lucas should have had Leia trek on to the Rebel base if she thought the Falcon was being tracked. I raised this in another thread.I was going to respond to that original point yesterday, but I couldn't find the thread, so I'll respond here. This was touched upon in a piece of dialogue from an earlier draft of the script, they showed Leia explaining this action in Carrie Fisher's audition tape, she explains that she wants to lead the Death Star straight to Yavin in order to avoid having other planets destroyed searching for her and the rebels. Her action is once again selflessly noble, and I think it does fall within her character enough that it doesn't need explanation (though I can see how others might feel differently).

Turbowars
09-14-2004, 09:31 PM
Yeah it always bothered me that Chewy didn't get a metal. It's like he was just the help. This never made me not like the film though. I think ANH is killer!! Could have done without Luke whinnying so much. He acted like a spoiled brat, but what was he spoiled with? To much blue milk or playing with mining droids?

Devo
09-14-2004, 09:33 PM
To start this off:

Vader vs Obi-wan. A re-match of the ages. Student meets master. After a grueling, intense duel, leaving one horrible scared forever, the blood fued comes full circle.

Now, I understand this was the first lightsaber fight ever. I understand that Sir Alec was quite old when it was filmed. But man, that little spin-thingy he does in the middle of the fight it the goofiest move I've ever seen. The whole fight, especially compared to the fights in the other films, and ESPECIALLY if the saga is viewed in order...that fight is hardly going to seem to do justice to the rematch.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. The spin looked badly contrived. A spin for the sake of a spin rather than any real necessity. If that had been a real fight he'd have been cut down a third of the way through the rotation. I'd be interested to see, as an optional 'replacing' scene in a future DVD release, a reshoot of this duel on a recreated set with Guinness' face added by whatever means they can. If its CG they better spend years perfecting it. But a duel, perhaps lengthier than the original, that would be on a par with say AOTC's slightly slower (than Phantom's) duel between Obi-wan and Dooku.

What else? I think its the weakest score of the original trilogy.

tagmac
09-14-2004, 11:20 PM
2. Chewbacca should have received a medal.

Actually, Chewie DID finally receive a medal, and from Princess Leia herself. Anyone who saw the MTV movie awards back in '97 (or was it '98) will know what I'm talking about. ;)

mrpauldeeds
09-15-2004, 03:00 AM
the whole movie works for me except the whole greedo thing. i also think chewy shoula recived a medal. And i think the fight between vader and obi wan should have been more intense, but it works for me. but beyond that i think ANH is a great movie.

Darth Rend
09-15-2004, 09:14 AM
I loved ANH..I just started this thread as to not single out Jedi. Look for other threads for each film coming soon.

As far as Luke's whinning and being spoiled, I say clearly it's inhereted. Everyone complains that Anakin is a spoiled, whinning brat. So is Luke in ANH.

"Lukes just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him."

Damn right, Beru.

DAAAAAMN right.

:crazed:

Droid
09-15-2004, 10:25 AM
I was going to respond to that original point yesterday, but I couldn't find the thread, so I'll respond here. This was touched upon in a piece of dialogue from an earlier draft of the script, they showed Leia explaining this action in Carrie Fisher's audition tape, she explains that she wants to lead the Death Star straight to Yavin in order to avoid having other planets destroyed searching for her and the rebels. Her action is once again selflessly noble, and I think it does fall within her character enough that it doesn't need explanation (though I can see how others might feel differently).

Well that's a better explanation, though it takes place off screen rather than in the movie. However, I think that the logic is a bit skewed. The Rebellion had to be willing to sacrifice the innocent for the greater good. If the Rebellion wanted to save the innocent it would just have bowed to the Empire's rule. There were probably countless innocents killed in the war, i.e. Owen and Beru. Leading the Empire to their base when they didn't know if they would find the weakness in the Death Star is at best bad strategy and at worst bad writing.

Also, as to this argument about Vader and Ben's lightsaber duel not being very good, I agree it is the least exciting of all the lightsaber duels. But it wasn't necessarily because of the limitations of effects and Alec Guiness. The characters weren't really trying to fight full out at that point. They were more concerned with their conversation. Ben was simply blocking Vader's blows, waiting for the others to escape, before he planned to sacrifice himself. And like a James Bond villian Vader seemed to want to say a few things and taunt his old master before he killed him.

We never saw a full fledged lightsaber duel in the original trilogy - and shouldn't have.

In Empire, Luke was not a fully trained Jedi and was having his first lightsaber fighting training when he fought Vader. Vader was hoping to capture Luke and also may have been conflicted about his feelings for him.

In Jedi, Luke was not wanting to fight Vader and Vader was seriously conflicted.

It wasn't until the Phantom Menace that we saw the first "I'm going to kill you with my lightsaber as soon as I can" lightsaber duel.

I am sure that Lucas would have made all of the original trilogy lightsaber duels more cool if the effects had been possible, but the story supports what we saw on screen. Also, the original trilogy had more dramatic tension in all of its lightsaber duels than the prequels in my opinion.

Darth Rend
09-15-2004, 11:04 AM
Actually I think the Empire Duel holds up against the PT duels anyway. It's just a different style.


I also love lukes saber technique. Back in the day Lucas told Hammil that the lightsaber should feel like it has wieght, Like he's wielding Excaliber. The result is a very unique fighting style for Luke.

stillakid
09-15-2004, 11:57 AM
Well, this being the BEST film of the entire saga, there isn't much to talk about. I suppose if I really had to nitpick, I might say that the initial Tatooine sequence is a little slow, particularly for more "modern" audiences, but on the whole this is a solid piece of storytelling, epic in scope and consistent in character development. Everybody does exactly as they should and the plot progresses in an entertaining and logical manner. :)

El Chuxter
09-15-2004, 12:26 PM
Harrison's acting, or lack thereof. And that's about it.

Kyle Katarn
09-15-2004, 01:00 PM
I didn't like behaving in a ver annoying way, he acts like a child, all the other aspects of the movie are great.

Devo
09-15-2004, 04:00 PM
Droids logic for the comparatively amateurish lightsaber duels in the OT is quite sound, although I'd be willing to bet Lucas would go back and reshoot all of them with Nick Gillard (he's the stunt co-ordinator on the prequels isn't he?) if he could and to hell with the explanations Droid laid down.

Darth Rend
09-15-2004, 04:37 PM
Well if you watch the Duels in AOTC that is a stunt actor with Christopher Lee's face added digitally. So it's already within Lucas's technical ability to redo the entire fight.

Darth Tornado
09-15-2004, 05:30 PM
I think that Chewie was offered a medal but refused. Remeber he is an honorable creature and prob has no need for some silly little trinket. Notice that he doesnt wear very much only practical items.