PDA

View Full Version : What's going on in the skies of Ohio?



JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 10:06 AM
Apparently, a rainbow coloured object was seen in the skies over a western Cleveland suburb and photographed by a number of people. There was also some videotape shot of the same object. That was September 26th.

On September 22nd, reports came in to a local radio programme regarding a strange, iridescent sphere in the skies over northern Ohio. This came hours after people reported seeing an object crashing in western Ohio. One caller stated he was on the Turnpike south of Toledo around 1am, when he saw a brightly glowing object fall from the sky and disappear. Shortly thereafter, another caller reported hearing military jets being scrambled from an AFB north of Detroit. Another caller reports a similar object falling in another part of the state.

Later that morning, a FEMA convoy was spotted on the Turnpike, heading east from Toledo. Also reported was a large number of military trucks coming from all points and heading west.

Another caller from Fostoria, Ohio (which is near Toledo) stated that "a ton" of Army vehicles had blocked Route 12 and was directing people to turn around and take a different route.

The same morning, a local news programme aired teasers for a breaking story regarding these objects. The story mysteriously never aired.

The skies over Ohio were filled with contrails... I mean FILLED. A large number of military craft were spotted canvassing the skies. I had no idea this was going on but I did see the contrails.

All of northern Ohio was on "high alert" that week but the citizens were not made aware of this until just recently.

Attatched are pictures of the jets, the contrails and the orb.

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 10:16 AM
Here are some photos of the object seen on the 26th...

Mary calling in about the Army trucks...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2014%20Mary%20on%20I%20480.mp3

Amin calls about the falling object...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2017%20Sighting%20by%20Amin.mp3

Kevin calls about a similar object falling in another location...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2019%20Kevin%20in%20Stow.mp3

Kevin from Detroit calls in about fighter jet scramble...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%205%20Kevin%20in%20Detroit.mp3

Lyle calls about the FEMA convoy...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2022%20Lyle%20sees%20FEMA%20convoy.mp3

Dave calls about the Army roadbolck...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2020%20Dave%20in%20Fostoria.mp3

Don calls in about his GPS failure...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2021%20Don%20and%20his%20GPS.mp3

Chris explains GPS failure possibilities...
http://www.wtam.com/triv/audio/contrails/9-22%20call%2023%20Chris%20explains%20GPS.mp3

James Boba Fettfield
10-08-2004, 11:45 AM
Did you see any of this, too, JP?

Why doesn't this happen in central Ohio...too many police helicopters, not enough UFO's.

I wonder what the explanation behind it all is, though.

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 11:58 AM
I saw the contrails, but didn't put a whole lot of thought into it. Now that I am aware of the situation, I will definitely be more attentive to the night sky...

A friend from another site reported... that these are F-16s and that they fly along with KC-135 tankers and C-130 transports. He did a Google on the Selfridge AFB and the F-16s. It also turned up this...

Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, head of USAF UFO investigation "Project Blue Book": This account is part of the book by Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects".

At nine-forty on the evening of the 29th (July 1952) an Air Defense Command radar station in central Michigan started to get plots on a target that was coming straight south across Saginaw Bay on Lake Huron at 625 miles an hour. A quick check of the flight plans on file showed that it was an unidentified target.

Had the press been aware of some of the other UFO activity in the United States during this period, the Washington sightings might not have been the center of interest. True, they could be classed as good reports but they were not the best that we were getting. In fact, less than six hours after the ladies and gentlemen of the press said "Thank you" to General Samford for his press conference, and before the UFO's could read the newspapers and find out that they were natural phenomena, one of them came down across the Canadian border into Michigan. The incident that occurred that night was one of those that even the most ardent skeptic would have difficulty explaining. I've heard a lot of them try and I've heard them all fail.

At nine forty on the evening of the twenty-ninth an Air Defense Command radar station in central Michigan started to get plots on a target that was coming straight south across Saginaw Bay on Lake Huron at 625 miles an hour. A quick check of flight plans on file showed that it was an unidentified target.

Three F-94's were in the area just northeast of the radar station, so the ground controller called one of the F-94's and told the pilot to intercept the unidentified target. The F-94 pilot started climbing out of the practice area on an intercept heading that the ground controller gave him. When the F-94 was at 20,000 feet, the ground controller told the pilot to turn to the right and he would be on the target. The pilot started to bring the F-94 around and at that instant both he and the radar operator in the back seat saw that they were turning toward a large bluish white light, "many times larger than a star." In the next second or two the light "took on a reddish tinge, and slowly began to get smaller, as if it were moving away." Just then the ground controller called and said that he still had both the F-94 and the unidentified target on his scope and that the target had just made a tight 180 degrees turn. The turn was too tight for a jet, and at the speed the target was traveling it would have to be a jet if it were an airplane. Now the target was heading back north. The F-94 pilot gave the engine full power and cut in the afterburner to give chase. The radar operator in the back seat got a good radar lock-on. Later he said, "It was just as solid a lock-on as you get from a B-36." The object was at 4 miles range and the F-94 was closing slowly. For thirty seconds they held the lock-on; then, just as the ground controller was telling the pilot that he was closing in, the light became brighter and the object pulled away to break the lock-on. Without breaking his transmission, the ground controller asked if the radar operator still had the lock-on because on the scope the distance between two blips had almost doubled in one sweep of the antenna. This indicated that the unknown target had almost doubled its speed in a matter of seconds.

For ten minutes the ground radar followed the chase. At times the unidentified target would slow down and the F-94 would start to close the gap, but always, just as the F-94 was getting within radar range, the target would put on a sudden burst of speed and pull away from the pursuing jet. The speed of the UFO - for by this time all concerned had decided that was what it was - couldn't be measured too accurately because its bursts of speed were of such short duration; but on several occasions the UFO travelled about 4 miles in one ten second sweep of the antenna, or about 1,400 miles an hour.

The F-94 was getting low on fuel, and the pilot had to break off the chase a minute or two before the UFO got out of range of the ground radar. The last few plots on the UFO weren't too good but it looked as if the target slowed down to 200 to 300 miles an hour as soon as the F-94 turned around.

What was it? It obviously wasn't a balloon or a meteor. It might have been another airplane except that in 1952 there was nothing flying, except a few experimental airplanes that were far from Michigan, that could so easily outdistance an F-94. Then there was the fact that radar clocked it at 1,400 miles an hour. The F-94 was heading straight for the star Capella, which is low on the horizon and is very brilliant, but what about the radar contacts? Some people said "Weather targets," but the chances of a weather target's making a 180 degrees turn just as an airplane turns into it, giving a radar lock-on, then changing speed to stay just out of range of the airplane's radar, and then slowing down when the airplane leaves is as close to nil as you can get.

What was it? A lot of people I knew were absolutely convinced this report was the key - the final proof. Even if all of the thousands of other UFO reports could be discarded on a technicality, this one couldn't be. These people believed that this report in itself was proof enough to officially accept the fact that UFO's were interplanetary spaceships. And when some people refused to believe even this report, the frustration was actually pitiful to see.

The following account is part of a statement submitted by James E. McDonald, Senior Physicist, Institute of Atmospheric Physics, and professor, Department of Meteorology, The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, to the House Committee on Science and Astronautics at July 29, 1968, Symposium on Unidentified Flying Objects, Rayburn Bldg., Washington, D.C. Full text here.

Professor James E. McDonald, world expert on atmospherics physics and UFO researcher:

5. Case 39. Port Huron, Mich., July 29, 1952:
Many of the radar cases for which sighting details are accessible date back to 1953 and preceding years. After 1953, official policies were changed, and it is not easy to secure good information on subsequent cases in most instances. A radar case in which both ground-radar and airborne radar contact were involved occurred at about 9:40 p.m. CST on 7/29/52 (Refs. 4, 5, 7, 10, 25). From the official case summary (Ref. 7) one finds that the unknown was first detected by GCI radar at an Aircraft Control and Warning station in Michigan, and one of three F-94s doing intercept exercises nearby was vectored over towards it. It was initially coming in out of the north (Ref. 5, 25), at a speed put at over 600 mph. As the F-94 was observed on the GCI scope to approach the unknown, the latter suddenly executed a 180 degree turn, and headed back north. The F-94 was by then up to 21,000 ft, and the pilot spotted a brilliant multicolored light just as his radarman got a contact. The F-94 followed on a pursuit course for 20 minutes (Ref. 7) but could never close with the unknown as it continued on its northbound course. At the time of first radar lock on, the F-94 was 20 miles west of Pt. Huron, Mich. The GCI scope revealed the unknown to be changing speed erratically, and at one stage it was evidently moving at a speed of over 1400 mph, according to Menzel (Ref. 25), who evidently drew his information from the official files. Ruppelt (Ref. 5) states that when the jet began to run low on fuel and turned back to its base, GCI observed the unknown blip slow down, and shortly after it was lost from the GCI scope.

Discussion:
This case is still carried as an official Unknown. The case summary (Ref. 7) speculates briefly on whether it could have been

"a series of coincident weather phenomena affecting the radar equipment and sightings of Capella, but this is stretching probabilities too far."
Menzel, however, asserts that the pilot did see Capella, and that the air borne and ground radar returns

"Were merely phantom returns caused by weather conditions."
No suggestion is offered as to how any given meteorological condition could jointly throw off radar at the ground and radar at 21,000 feet, no suggestion is offered to account for 180 degree course-reversal exhibited by the blip on the GCI scope just as the F-94 came near the unknown, no suggestion of how propagation anomalies could yield the impression of a blip moving systematically northward for 20 minutes (a distance of almost 100 miles, judging from reported F-94 speeds), with the F-94 return following along behind it. With such ad hoc explanations, one could explain away almost any kind of sighting, regardless of its content. I have examined the radiosonde sounding for stations near the site and time of this incident, and see nothing in them that would support Menzel's interpretations. I have queried experienced military pilots and radar personnel, and none have heard of anything like "ground returns" from atmospheric conditions with aircraft radar operated in the middle troposphere. If Menzel is not considering ground-returns, in the several cases of this type which he explains away with a few remarks about "phantom radar returns", then it is not clear what else he might be thinking of. One does have to have some solid target to get a radar return resembling that of an aircraft. Refractive anomalies of the "angel" type have very low radar cross-section and would not mislead experienced operators into confusing them with aircraft echoes.

6. Many other cases might be cited where UFOs have appeared on radar under conditions where no acceptable conventional explanation exists. Ref. 7 has a number of them. Hall (Ref. 10) has about 60 instances in which both radar and visual sightings were involved. A December 19, 1964 case at Patuxent River NAS is one that I have checked on. It involved three successive passes of an unknown moving at speeds estimated at about 7000 mph. It is an interesting case, one that came to light for somewhat curious reasons. A low overcast precluded any visual sightings from control tower personnel, so this is not a radar-visual case. I found no conventional explanation to account for it.

It has to be stressed that there are many ways in which false returns can be seen on radarscopes, resulting not only from ducting of ground returns but also from interference from other nearby radars, from internal electronic signals within the radar set, from angels and insects (weak returns), etc. Hence each case has to be examined independently. After studying a number of official evaluations of radar UFO cases, I get the impression that there would probably be more radar Unknowns if there were less tendency to quickly explain them away by qualitative arguments that overlook pertinent quantitative matters. Even at that, there are too many conceded unknowns in official files to be ignored.

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 12:07 PM
Zoot Horn Rollo writes back: "There was another Selfridge UFO sighting in 1950 as well.

It may be just a coincidence but Wright-Patterson AFB always seems to be linked to UFO sightings (quite apart from the fact that that was where the USAF UFO 'Blue Book' was compiled) and WPAFB just happens to be in Ohio as well... "

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I wrote back to Rollo:

There was a report back in 1985 that I can corroborate. An object was seen traveling east to west in my area (my mother and I saw it separately and didn't speak of it until it appeared in the paper a few days later). A state patrol officer saw the object as he came off duty and arrived home. He called the sighting into his post, which they verified and called sighting into the local international airport. The airport could not see a UFO on their radar but believe the officers at the post. The airport called the sighting into Wright-Patterson AFB. Wright-Patterson saw the object and it did not carry a marker. They tracked the object until it disappeared off their scopes somewhere over the lake, just east of Cleveland.

El Chuxter
10-08-2004, 12:22 PM
Move along, move along. Nothing to see here, you bunch of lookie-loos.

I wish you'd put this in the Rancor Pit, because there's a comment I'd not hesitate to make. But not here. :Pirate:

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 12:33 PM
I wish you'd put this in the Rancor Pit, because there's a comment I'd not hesitate to make. But not here. :Pirate:
Wanna message it to me? :crazed:

Slicker
10-08-2004, 12:46 PM
This sort of thing interests me greatly and shows me once again that if we think we're alone we're just being selfish. I lived in Saginaw, Michigan ,which is right on Saginaw Bay, for 21 years and I don't recall hearing any of these reports of UFO's although I wish I had. Was it quite spooky seeing a UFO? I would've been totally freaked.

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 01:01 PM
It was one of those things where you aren't exactly sure what you are seeing, but you know something is amiss. There aren't any of the familiar noises from aircraft (choppers, planes, jets, blimps, etc.) and visually, you just have a tough time describing things like the glow, the lights and so forth because you just don't see things like that everyday. You can't even compare it to something in a film because it hasn't been done the same way.

It was just odd... that's all I can say. Since a lot of people would think you are just being silly, you don't really say anything about it. Once the story broke, my mom admitted she saw the same thing and we just talked about it for days.

Kidhuman
10-08-2004, 01:23 PM
They're here.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
10-08-2004, 01:40 PM
It's weird you mention that, JP as some crop circles appeared in the Dayton area, about 25 miles south from where my family lives now and where i go for school breaks.

Crop circle pops up
'The most impressive. . . I've ever seen'

By James Cummings

Dayton Daily News

MIAMI TWP., Montgomery County | Fall often brings sightings of mysterious crop circles in Ohio, and this season the Miami Valley has one of its own.

DiPietro was riding in a WHIO television news helicopter scouting sites for DUI checkpoints when he saw the circles and snapped a photograph.

The photo appeared on the cover of the Miamisburg-West Carrollton News last Thursday and began spreading via the Internet.

The crop circles are in a field owned by the Miamisburg School District, right next door to a Miami Twp. fire station and service garage.

Crop circle investigator Jeffrey Wilson called the design found in the field off Linden Avenue just east of the Miamisburg line "the most impressive corn crop formation I've ever seen," and he's seen dozens.

He said he's seen larger, more elaborate designs pressed into crops like wheat or soybeans, but he said he's heard of only one crop circle in a cornfield that was larger than the one in Miami Twp.

"It's impressive not just because of its size, but because of the exactness of the geometry," Wilson said. "I've seen lots of crop circles that were obviously hoaxes, but this one didn't have the signs of mechanical damage to the plants you sometimes see in obvious fakes. The corn stalks were laid flat but not broken and there was some interweaving."

Wilson, who lives in Williamsburg east of Cincinnati, is the director of a volunteer group called the Independent Crop Circle Researchers Association. He said he became intrigued with crop circles in 1989 and has been visiting sites to examine the formations scientifically since 1996.

Miami Twp. Service Administrator Jim Woolf said several people, apparently tipped to the location via the Internet, showed up Tuesday to see the circles.

"We had license plates from northern Ohio, Illinois, all over," Woolf said. "I don't think any of my guys have been out in the field to see it, though. We had people coming from Illinois, but we didn't feel it was worth going next door for."

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 04:15 PM
Yeah... this has just been the talk on www.wtam.com and with other witnesses for the last couple weeks. It's just becoming big local news.

I was listening this afternoon and an on-air personality called in from another station south of Cleveland and reported seeing odd things in the sky there. He also reported wispy "strands" of whitish material falling from the sky. These strands disintergrated on the way down and the larger pieces disintergrated moments after contact with the ground.

A number of people who were outdoors and amongst this falling material became sick and feverish for a couple days and somehow recovered with no lingering traces of the "illness".

JEDIpartner
10-08-2004, 04:17 PM
Definitely interesting news there JMG!!!! Something big is happening!!!!

James Boba Fettfield
10-08-2004, 04:52 PM
Wilson, who lives in Williamsburg east of Cincinnati, is the director of a volunteer group called the Independent Crop Circle Researchers Association. He said he became intrigued with crop circles in 1989 and has been visiting sites to examine the formations scientifically since 1996.

I am from Williamsburg. I will have to track down this guy down and become a part of this investigating crop circles group. I bet I would meet some interesting people.

stillakid
10-08-2004, 06:35 PM
The "orb" in the last shot looks suspiciously like a lens flare. As for the contrails, there is a National Guard unit based out of Toledo, but that is an unusual amount of activity. If the reports of trucks and things are to be believed, certainly it seems that "something" fell from the sky and is being kep under wraps. But before jumping to :alien: conclusions, it could just as easily have been a top secret military satellite or something of that sort. Supposing that any pieces would survive reentry, the government isn't going to let anything just lie around.

But I have family in NW Ohio and my dad has connections with air traffic there, so I'll make an inquiry and see if he knows anything... :alien:

JEFFILM
10-08-2004, 06:49 PM
if you saw it - you should report it to the UFO reporting center. They keep detailed records on all the sightings reported

InsaneJediGirl
10-08-2004, 07:53 PM
Very cool stuff.Looks the the "rainbow alien" was having fun.Wonder how fast the goverment is going to put a stopper on all the buzz its creating.

Crop circles arent half bad either,looks a bit like a beetle in the one picture.

Rocketboy
10-08-2004, 11:11 PM
Aliens coming to Earth are just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy (and the ghost of Sebatian Shaw)...all figments of your F***ING imagination!

stillakid
10-09-2004, 12:06 AM
Aliens coming to Earth are ...all figments of your F***ING imagination!

Prove it. :neutral:

Rocketboy
10-09-2004, 12:17 AM
I can't. I can't prove Santa exists either.
I'd rather have you prove aliens do exist.
Show me one alien.
One UFO
Photos don't count. They can be faked too easily.

Show me anything.

mabudonicus
10-09-2004, 08:23 AM
I'm with Chux on this one, especially with the direction this thing has taken, throw it in the 'Pit...
ANY comment I can think of (that makes any sense, at least) would land me in hot water


:rambo: ;)

Exhaust Port
10-09-2004, 08:56 AM
Let's see.....there is a navigation fix just outside of Toledo where it is common for arriving traffic into CLE to "hold" when airbourne traffic backs up. Yes, even on clear days it's common to fly circles in the sky while you wait for CLE ATC to fix the congestion issues. Usually the holding traffic will place the aircraft in the mid-20,000' range. That is a very common explanation for the contrails making the race track patterns.

Number of contrails? The airspace over Northern Ohio is the busiest in the world. That's right, the north shore has the highest number of aircraft operations than any other block of airspace around. The biggest reason for this is due to it lying between Chicago and NYC. On most days you are unaware of the number of flights overhead as the atmospheric conditions aren't such that contrails will form at altitude.

As Stilla mentioned there is a F-16 guard unit based there. Not only is it common to see aircraft and vehicles from their unit operating in the vicinity of that airport but also equipment from other units that pass through (which would explain the F-15's in those pictures).

Also that unit is gearing up to leave (or is leaving now) for the Red Flag war games in Nevada. Again, not only will all the equimpent and personnel from the Toledo unit be seen flying/driving out of that airport but also other units that are making a pit stop there on their way out.

Finally, if there was something that "secret" taking place in the Toledo area a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) would have been issued announcing a TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) over that area keeping civilian aircraft out of the area. It was not.

stillakid
10-09-2004, 10:31 AM
I can't. I can't prove Santa exists either.
I'd rather have you prove aliens do exist.
Show me one alien.
One UFO
Photos don't count. They can be faked too easily.

Show me anything.


I'm with you. I'd like to see definitive proof too. But your statement above was pretty definitive. The truth is that maybe they do exist (and have been here) or they don't. No one can say for certain at this time.

As far as Santa goes, we have pretty good proof of his origins and how the "concept" has evolved over time, so aside from 1-9 year olds, I don't think that anyone really believes in him (as an individual in a red hat with a sleigh and reindeer). :)

Rocketboy
10-09-2004, 11:56 AM
I'm with you. I'd like to see definitive proof too. But your statement above was pretty definitive. The truth is that maybe they do exist (and have been here) or they don't. No one can say for certain at this time.
Yeah, maybe they do exist. Maybe.
But the odds are pretty slim that if alien life does exist in our own galaxy (which is of course huge) and this life has actually have evolved to a point where intelligence and communication (at the very least) is possible.

The Drake Equation was developed by Frank Drake in 1961 as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy.
Give it a try:
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html

JEDIpartner
10-09-2004, 03:29 PM
Oh... and the photos of the "rainbowy" thing was taken by the Olmsted Falls police. The contrails were definitely from military jets.

stillakid
10-09-2004, 04:26 PM
Yeah, maybe they do exist. Maybe.
But the odds are pretty slim that if alien life does exist in our own galaxy (which is of course huge) and this life has actually have evolved to a point where intelligence and communication (at the very least) is possible.

The Drake Equation was developed by Frank Drake in 1961 as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy.
Give it a try:
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html


Don't get me wrong. I hear ya. I took that class myself. :D My astronomy professor back in the day summed up the "odds" in a very concise manner (which I'd repeat here, but it was a much more visual thing so the effect would be lost).

But anyway, all those "odds" are based on the physics that we are aware of today. I think that there are two distinct questions in this issue though.

The first being addressed by the Drake Equation regarding simply whether we are alone or not. The second is whether any of them have ever visited Earth. As to the first question, while the odds may be small based on the equation, they still exist. The odds are small that an airplane will crash, but that doesn't preclude it from happening ever. Same for life elsewhere.

The second is whether "they've" visited us or not. Based on what we currently know regarding propulsion and the vast distances of space, there is no way that another civilization could possibly have visited this planet now or at anytime in the past. Quite simply, they would have had to leave their own world before the most primitive of creatures had climbed out of our primordial soup. While I suppose it's possible, it's pretty unlikely. But that's using "traditional" methods of propulsion. But if we consider "sci fi" stuff like wormholes or folding space, then maybe it could be happening right now. But until we know more about that stuff, that possibility will have to remain in the "maybe" category. Bummer.

stillakid
10-09-2004, 04:39 PM
Funny coincidence? If you have AOL, copy this URL into that browser:

http://aolsvc.digitalcity.com/losangeles/toptenufosightings/main.adp :alien:

JEDIpartner
10-09-2004, 08:58 PM
:) I was able to view that page without AOL... Kinda funny and interesting!!

Exhaust Port
10-09-2004, 11:28 PM
The contrails were definitely from military jets.

How do you figure?

JEDIpartner
10-10-2004, 09:44 AM
People SAW the jets... that's where some of the pictures OF the jets came from.

Exhaust Port
10-11-2004, 10:04 PM
From what I've seen from the pictures, yes people saw military jets landing at Toledo Express and yes, they saw contrails in the sky but that's it. They are ASSUMING the military jets they saw gave off the contrails. If such a CAP mission was under way the FAA would have blocked off the airspace in the vicinity to accommedate the military flights and that did not happen.

Again, that unit was deploying for the Red Flag war games in Nevada. Doesn't that sound a lot like what was seen there.

Lastly, military pilots routinely fly their jets on cross country flights to fullfill training requirements. As a result a lot of these pilots fly their jets into airports that don't routinely handle such equipment. I have to say that I've seen a lot of jets in odd airports over the years. Heck there was a military pilot here in Ohio that proceded to buzz his folks home before landing at the Akron-Canton airport a few years. Everyone was calling the police and reporting "mysterious" government exercises in their area when it was nothing more than some kid showing off for his parents.

Occam's razor: One should always choose the simplest explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the fewest leaps of logic

JEDIpartner
10-12-2004, 10:07 AM
The pictures of the jets were taken in Lake County, which is 3/4 of the way on the other side of the state from Toledo.

Exhaust Port
10-12-2004, 11:16 AM
Are you referring to the jet contrails? or the jet pictures? If you mean the contrails then the claims are even more outrageous as the navigation fix east of Cleveland is even more conjested then those on the west side of the state. I can't tell you how many times I've been "holding" over Chardon on clear days waiting for the congestion to lift.

Most of your original story claimed that most activity was in the vicinity of Toledo which as I explained is home to a unit shipping out for the Red Flag war games. Mysterious objects in the sky? You do know there is a military live firing range on the south Erie shore in that area as well?

Your average citizen in not aware of how much aircraft traffic is over their house on an average day. Most days contrails rarely form or are only temporary. On those occasional days where the conditions are ripe for not only contrails to form but stay aloft without disapating then your average Joe can look up and see how much traffic (and the patterns they fly) is in the skies over their head.

The northern ohio air traffic controllers handle over 3 million flights a year and over 10,000 a day. Were you aware that such a volume of traffic was transitioning the skies over your head? 10,000 seperate flights! That doesn't include aircraft not under the control of the ATC control center. So on one particular day folks see a bunch of contrails and freak out claiming that there is unusual traffic overhead? I hate to break it to you but you don't know the half of it.

As for those pictures of F-15's....where they taken in Lake County or somewhere else? Again, you'd be suprised where such aircraft can be seen at times. Less than a mile from my house the small airport there has been frequented by C-130's and F-15's who have buzzed the field. Less than 10 miles to the east the military does low level training. Across Ohio and every other state there are published low and high level military training routes. Low level routes can have jets operating at 500' above the ground or lower. They aren't used often but that doesn't mean they can't be seen at times flying.

Aviation is a large complex industry. The military couldn't conduct unusual excercises without impacting commercial operations. At no point during the last month or year have commercial operations been disrupted or altered due to such activity by the military. I hate to burst everyone's bubble.

stillakid
10-12-2004, 11:34 AM
Also Burlington Express operates out of Toledo also which accounts for a great deal of air traffic.

After checking with my own "inside" sources, there is no "chatter" regarding anything out of the ordinary. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along...

JEDIpartner
10-12-2004, 12:10 PM
The jets are back in the sky today. A number of us went outside the office around 11:25 and watched the jets canvas the skies south of Cleveland. It was cool!!! :)

Exhaust Port
10-12-2004, 01:17 PM
Low altitude miltary jets or are you just seeing aircraft in the sky? Wait 7 hours and I'll be one of them so look out.

Lowly Bantha Cleaner
10-12-2004, 11:09 PM
Saw a clip of a mysterious object on my local news broadcast today that was taken by a civilian over the skies of Indiana. I am not sure if this related to what has been seen over Ohio, but the footage was apparently taken Monday. The object in question was monochromatic, silverish, and hovered in one place, mainly.

An aircraft was discounted, because of the slow movement of the object, but experts believed it was some sort of natural phenomenon.

Exhaust Port
10-13-2004, 12:18 AM
Looking at the footage I would say that it is an aircraft. Given that the sun was low in the sky and that the object appeared to be falling I would guess that this is a transcon flight moving east to west with it's contrail being illuminated by the low sun. It's a phenomenon I've seen before a few times. It would appear to be falling earth bound but only to those who are exactly perpendicular to the flight path. I've had a passenger report that a meteor just missed the aircraft as he saw it fall straight down past the wing. Seeing the same object I can say it was quite an optical illusion. The meteor fell exactly perpendicular to our vantage point which made it appear to be falling straight down and "hit" the wing for those looking out across its span.

Having seen a space object fall in such a manner I can say that object over Indiana wasn't from space. Such an object falls outrageously fast and is only visible for a few seconds, even for those that transverse most of the sky. This object appears to be hanging there, contrary to the report of it falling from the sky, which would be consistant with aircraft movement at high altitude. Heck, perhaps it was even me tonight. ;)

Jedi Drew
11-07-2004, 08:27 AM
Well again I saw some weird stuff yesterday morning at about 7 a.m. south east of Pleasant Valley Rd. in Parma. I was going to get some gas heading east and saw a TON of trails. I mean a TON. I was gonna go back home get a cammera-but work calls. The one trail I saw while pumping gas was going stright up almost like a missile but it was a plane since it had contrails. Weird.... :confused:

Exhaust Port
11-07-2004, 09:20 AM
Now that the last front is well past the air is more prime for contrail formation. I noticed that it more so above 25,000-30,000' rather than lower altitudes. Especially with the clear skies we've been having as well as there being low humidity it becomes very hard to judge distances as your depth perception is thrown off. What appeared to be heading straight up most likely was just flying perpendicular to your vantage point.

Missles and rockets can have contrails too. :)

Jedi Drew
11-07-2004, 04:29 PM
Look, I know what I saw. Things are happening.... :confused:

Exhaust Port
11-07-2004, 09:04 PM
Oh Please...... :rolleyes: Do you really know what you saw? Heck most folks think every jet is a 747 and every prop aircraft is a Cessna. The atmosphere is a complex system and looking up at it and through it with your naked eye does not make your average citizen an expert witness on what happens or what they even saw. I've spent about 10 years and thousands of hours flying through the skies above with a good portion of that in the skies over northern Ohio. Conspiracy theorists will never believe the testimony of experienced professionals but NOTHING IS HAPPENING!!..... at least nothing that doesn't happen everyday whether or not you see it.

JEDIpartner
11-08-2004, 09:09 AM
Must you be such a skeptic? :rolleyes: If you don't believe people are seeing what they are seeing, just shut up about it. I really like you EP, but come on... this thread is for people who want to talk about the possibility of odd phenomena in the skies of Ohio, not to read your incessant "pooh-poohing" of each post.

Exhaust Port
11-08-2004, 10:48 AM
Most honest discussions of the unknown deal with the search for answers, that is what I'm attempting to provide. It seems most prefer a discussion of the unknown to involve nothing more than speculation and guesses. This interest in the "possibility of odd phenomena" seems to overshadow "possibility of normal occurances". Most folks have no idea what happens in the skies overhead on a daily basis let alone don't know what is normal or not.

How can one have an honest discussion of "odd phenomena" when they don't even know what "normal phenomena" is?

JEDIpartner
11-08-2004, 11:01 AM
Maybe we just wanna talk about how cool or bizarre it was. You won't even let us have that. Maybe you just wish to apply logic and convention to things that defy logic and convention. *shrug*