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evenflow
05-11-2005, 02:41 PM
You know i had my trouble with Kebco becuase I never got anything I ordered. Now i was poking around ebay only to find Kebco selling stuff I ordered and never got. Thats messed up.

dindae
05-11-2005, 03:47 PM
Well I officially put in my complaint with the BBB today. Hopefully that will kick their butts into gear.

dune01
05-11-2005, 04:34 PM
Keep us updated. I know a lot of people here would be interested in the outcome.

groe
05-11-2005, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE=kidhuman]I have to agree with Dr E. Kebco, Brians Toys, TRU and all the places that advertise here, help keep this site open for free.QUOTE]

Actually, Kebco hasn't advertised here in quite some time. Probably couldn't afford to just like they can't afford to give us our refunds :)

rassmguy
05-12-2005, 04:25 PM
I have to agree with Dr E. Kebco, Brians Toys, TRU and all the places that advertise here, help keep this site open for free.


Actually, Kebco doesn't advertise here.

JEDIpartner
05-12-2005, 04:43 PM
Man alive... How many times do I have to say this?? Get off your lazy a***s and write them a traditional letter and send it certified mail with a return reciept!!!! Contact your credit card company and notify them of the amounts you are being charge and disputing and let them know what you did thus far! The returned reciept will show they received your request and if they don't comply, then you tell the credit card company and they will start the fraud procedure. It worked for me and it's worked for a couple other people who needed help in this matter.

Geez! There are more ways to do this and cover your butts and yet you keep doing the wrong things...

Kidhuman
05-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Actually, Kebco doesn't advertise here.

Anymore... :beard:

dindae
05-13-2005, 12:03 AM
Jedipartner I've done the certified letter. Also I used a debit card for part of the purchases I need credit for and my bank stated since I had given authorization then they would not get involved. Now I can do a charge back for the portion not on the debit card but that is the smaller portion and would probably just cause more confusion once they try to issue the credit.

stillakid
05-13-2005, 02:29 AM
They've ignored my multiple emails and my certified letter which they received last week. Obviously all attempts to contact them by phone are useless.

I will be contacting my credit card company within a couple of days to research options. After that...well, I know a guy. :smoker: :sur:

rassmguy
05-13-2005, 07:25 AM
Man alive... How many times do I have to say this?? Get off your lazy a***s and write them a traditional letter and send it certified mail with a return reciept!!!! Contact your credit card company and notify them of the amounts you are being charge and disputing and let them know what you did thus far! The returned reciept will show they received your request and if they don't comply, then you tell the credit card company and they will start the fraud procedure. It worked for me and it's worked for a couple other people who needed help in this matter.

Geez! There are more ways to do this and cover your butts and yet you keep doing the wrong things...


Hey, there's no reason to be an *** to other people on the board. Why are you acting like that?

Jedi Drew
05-14-2005, 07:48 AM
Hey, there's no reason to be an *** to other people on the board. Why are you acting like that?
He is not acting like an A@@-he is just trying to help us that have problems with KEBco.

jedi-cpa
05-14-2005, 09:36 PM
So I was away in ST martin for the week, looking forward to getting home and seeing at least another 6 figs added onto my acciount based on this posting:


Currently we are continuing to ship EP3 product. We received a large shipment of product today and in the next 7 to 10 days we will be shipping out about 10,000 EP3 basic figures to current Club Members. We will continue to receive EP3 product for the next several months and will fill current Pre-Orders as quickly as possible.

We do appreciate your business...KEBco Toys

10K figs and guess how many have been added to my pending list...NONE!!!!!!!

Come on, I want my final 44 basic and 8 deluxe so I can be done with you!!!

I agreed to buy it as not to stick Kebco in what is already a crappy position, but COME ON.

SCOTT, KEN, I know you log on here...10000 figs and there can't be that many customers left...so lets shippem!

mrshiny
05-15-2005, 01:48 PM
Has anyone gooten any figures from them since April?

ArtooMetoo
05-15-2005, 05:16 PM
Hey everyone.

Can anyone verify KEBco's mailing address for me? I have two in my notes here and I'm not sure which is correct.

I have:

49 Newnan South Industrial Drive
Newnan, GA 30263

and

(removed)

I'm writing a letter that I'm sending registered with return receipt to cancel my Club membership but I want to make sure that I'm sending it to the right place.

Also, in addition to over five hundred dollars of charges that are sitting on my credit card for unshipped figures, they owe me over $1600 for graphic design services I provided them that are unpaid.

Any help in getting in touch, especially from folks who have already sent snail mail to them, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jedi-cpa
05-15-2005, 05:40 PM
the 49 industrial drive one is the one I sent my certified return receipt requested letter to.

And my CC account did get the refund for ALL 2004 figs within a couple of weeks. The episode 3 figs are a differnt story.

Good luck to you.

rassmguy
05-15-2005, 07:59 PM
He is not acting like an A@@-he is just trying to help us that have problems with KEBco.

By telling people to get off their lazy asses? Right.

mrshiny
05-15-2005, 10:19 PM
I used the Industrial Drive address and Ken signed for mine. So even though they gor "10,000" figures in 5/1, no one has gotten anything?

stillakid
05-16-2005, 01:44 AM
I used the Industrial Drive address and Ken signed for mine. So even though they gor "10,000" figures in 5/1, no one has gotten anything?

I received 6 figures last week and judging by the recent charges to my card, the other two invoices have shipped although the status page still lists them as Pending.

They have still ignored my certified letter as well as the myriad of emails I've sent. They get a couple more days and then my credit card company will be getting involved. I sense that they will be circling the wagons here pretty soon if they haven't already. :mad:

Kidhuman
05-16-2005, 01:51 AM
By telling people to get off their lazy asses? Right.


Rassmguy,

he didnt mean anything by it, he justbasically meant do this, I did and it worked. He succeeded in doing it and is telling everyone to follow suit. I will vouch for JP and tell you he did not mean it to be personal. Please let it drop, it is in the past.


JediDrew,

Please let it go, you know JP probably better than anyone here. You know what he meant. Please let it drop.

mrshiny
05-16-2005, 09:26 AM
I received 6 figures last week and judging by the recent charges to my card, the other two invoices have shipped although the status page still lists them as Pending.

Do the six you received still show as Pending too?

samskull
05-16-2005, 09:30 AM
I hope after 28 Forum pages of "Trouble with Kebco" there isn't anyone else still contemplating signing up for their "One of every figure Club." Learn from those of us who have suffered from this company's intolerable business practices.

And can you really trust someone when they claim they have 10,000 figures in stock when you haven't seen one in six months? That trust was broken long ago.

I wish you all happy returns. An with all the money owed by Kebco to Star Wars fans out here - we could have one helleva party.

JEDIpartner
05-16-2005, 09:49 AM
Yes, Rass... I am trying to be helpful. I am just tired of seeing people writing, "I wrote them another e-mail" or "I tried called twenty-six times today" and not just taking amoment to heed some sound advice. I didn't get a response to my e-mail so, after one week, I contacted my credit card company and explained the situation. I also wrote them a letter and sent it certified with a return reciept and e-mailed them the exact text from that letter. The letter included a total of the charges I demanded for refund. I printed out the invoice lists from their site and highlighted and totalled everything and included those items.

What bothers me about the people who are complaining about not getting a response are the people who are clearly just taking the same steps over and over and over. It's like they are expecting a sudden change... like a response when none is going to come.

The return reciept is your proof that they recieved your letter. That would hold up in a court of law should you need to pursue that further. You shouldn't have to because that is also what your credit card company needs to see in order to start a non-response action for a fraud claim.

Yeah... it takes a little leg work. It'll probably take you about an hour to sort through all the stuff, make the phone call and get the letter mailed. Unfortunately, people just don't seem to be willing to do a little work in order to get their money back. That comes across as sheer laziness.

It's not like I hadn't posted other times that this method will work for you.

JEDIpartner
05-16-2005, 09:58 AM
They've ignored my multiple emails and my certified letter which they received last week. Obviously all attempts to contact them by phone are useless.

Let your credit card company know that you received the return reciept back from them and then they will start processing the fraud paperwork. You will need the invoices and the charge dates as well as the amounts charged. Your credit card company should be able to provide you with summaries for the last couple months. I hope you have kept your monthly summaries/activity reports as well. The reverse side of the summaries have sections to complete with your information regarding the incident. The front side of the summary must show that charge. Essentially, they claim must correspond with the history of the activity.

For Dindae... don't give up so easily. It's your money! Your bank should have either mailed you your debit card activity statements once a month. If you are with a larger bank (Key, Chase, Charter One...), their on-line banking sites will allow you to pull up a history of your transactions; withdrawls and such. You can always print those out or visit a branch and they should be able to help you out.

stillakid
05-16-2005, 01:45 PM
Do the six you received still show as Pending too?

The status changed to "Shipping" a couple of days after I received the box. I didn't even realize it was coming.

Thanks JP. I'll get on the process this week. I spent an hour last week trolling through all the invoices and my credit card statements to find the discrepencies.

jedi-cpa
05-16-2005, 09:50 PM
nothing added today...ten thosand figs...I'd just like another 6...actually another 38 plus 8 deluxe...but why dredge up the past of who killed who!?!?!?!

ArtooMetoo
05-17-2005, 01:24 PM
Curiously, my KEBco Account Status page for 2005 has been updated today. With the exception of the list of charges to my card, there are NO ITEMS.

Yes, all the figures are GONE my account status page.

Has this happened to anyone else?

stillakid
05-17-2005, 02:42 PM
Curiously, my KEBco Account Status page for 2005 has been updated today. With the exception of the list of charges to my card, there are NO ITEMS.

Yes, all the figures are GONE my account status page.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Nope. All of my information is still there, but I made paper copies of everything already just in case they decide to pull it all down for some reason.

jedi-cpa
05-17-2005, 03:18 PM
I just logged on...still nothing new...nothing added to pending since 4/4...

groe
05-17-2005, 04:29 PM
Curiously, my KEBco Account Status page for 2005 has been updated today. With the exception of the list of charges to my card, there are NO ITEMS.

Yes, all the figures are GONE my account status page.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Ken probably read your post.....

stillakid
05-18-2005, 02:52 PM
I contacted Capital One today. The first guy I talked to in Investigative Solutions initially told me that my OTC order and another disputed charge were beyond the 120 day maximum, so he couldn't help me. :eek: I had another dispute from February which was within the alloted time, so he began working on that. While he put me on hold, we got cut off.

At first I thought it was on accident, but after calling back and talking to someone else, I'm not so sure anymore. I just think that he didn't know what he was doing.

After I re-explained everything to Lisa Anne :) after calling back, she said that absolutely they could help with everything. The long and short of it is that I had to open up three separate disputes because the problems were all unique as far as the credit card company was concerned. I have to write 2 separate letters for Merchandise Not Received and for Not As Described. She took care of the third problem (they ordered Force Battlers that I didn't want and charged me 100% for them) by cancelling my card number and reissuing my account. This particular problem will go through their Fraud Department.


The reason I writing any of this is just in case a KEBco representative is peeking in. I didn't want it to come to this and I was being very patient with you. But after countless emails, unanswered phone calls, and an ignored certified letter describing the issues, you've left me little choice.

Frankly, I don't give a damn what the problems are on your end. We made a deal that if I paid you 50% upfront, that you'd order One of Every non-exclusive figure and deliver it to me within a reasonable amount of time. For the most part, you did fine. But beginning with the Super Deformed figures I ordered from you and you defaulted on, I suspected there might be trouble. It continued with your failure to deliver the OTC figures that you billed me 100% for plus shipping, your failure to pre-order the last round of non-exclusive Animated Clone Wars figures, your pre-ordering of Force Battler sets that don't even come close to being on my list of wants, your double-ordering and charging of new ROTS figures, and your utter lack of communication regarding any of it.

While you can continue to ignore me, I don't expect that Capital One Mastercard will extend you the same level of patience. I expect to be hearing from you very soon, however I don't really want to. All I want to see are the charges reimbursed back to my account in full. That shouldn't be too much to ask if what you claim is true, that you wish to retain us as customers. I find that claim very difficult to believe.

-bd

WesleySr
05-18-2005, 05:20 PM
Well Ken if you are checking these forums, I just fired off my final email to your company before I initiate a chargeback. It has been 5 weeks since I filed my claim with the BBB and you have still yet to even acknowledge me. I don't know what your problem is, but I, like everyone else, am tired of waiting for you to solve it.

Jedi Drew
05-18-2005, 09:47 PM
How do you do a chargeback??? Thru your credit card co??? :confused:

Kidhuman
05-19-2005, 01:10 AM
Yes, contact the credit card company for those.

mrshiny
05-20-2005, 09:49 AM
Well, they have my letter. No response, so started working with American Express. Just disputed an amout equal to what hasn't shipped from 2003-4. Left 2005 open, so maybe they will ship.

So, if they do disappear as I fear they might, then what's the best place to go online to try to get the current figs (especially the red guard)?

dune01
05-20-2005, 09:58 AM
Well, they have my letter. No response, so started working with American Express. Just disputed an amout equal to what hasn't shipped from 2003-4. Left 2005 open, so maybe they will ship.

So, if they do disappear as I fear they might, then what's the best place to go online to try to get the current figs (especially the red guard)?
American Express let you dispute charges that far in the past?

mrshiny
05-20-2005, 12:50 PM
Right now, I figured out what I was charged, and went back as far as i could (December 2004) and disputed everything until I reached that amount.

dindae
05-20-2005, 01:20 PM
good luck with that. Since you are disputing items that actually got shipped to get money for things that didn't ship I don't think Kebco will work with the card company. Let us know how it goes.

mrshiny
05-20-2005, 02:44 PM
No, I those charges are also for items that have not shipped too, so it really makes no diffrence. As they still have not responded to my letter, I'm contesting all the remaining charges as well. Nothing I'm disputing has actually shipped, so it will be difficult for Kebco to prove I recieved any of it!

stillakid
05-20-2005, 05:24 PM
Change your credit card account number. When they try to charge you again for shipping or whatever and find they can't, they will forced to contact you at that time and then you can discuss whatever you'd like with them.

Sith Lord 0498
05-20-2005, 05:28 PM
Nothing I'm disputing has actually shipped, so it will be difficult for Kebco to prove I recieved any of it!

They will have an especially hard time proving it shipped when they try to provide the shipping information and/or tracking number. Even if they say they shipped all of this merchandise, UPS/USPS/FedEx/etc. will say they never delivered or even received these packages. What's KEBCo's excuse going to be? That those institutions lost all those packages and their records??

KEBCo will just back themselves into a very dark, unforgiving corner if they try saying anything except the truth. And I'm sure the credit card companies will not look favorably on them if they try anything like that.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 05:33 PM
I was charged the last 50% on two invoices plus shipping on April 21st. Still no sign of the packages or a UPS notification. :mad:

TheBigSloppy
05-20-2005, 05:40 PM
Change your credit card account number. When they try to charge you again for shipping or whatever and find they can't, they will forced to contact you at that time and then you can discuss whatever you'd like with them.

Fat chance. Citibank had sent me a new debit card in 2003 when I upgraded to the American Airlines frequent flier miles debit card. I was given a new set of numbers, new expiration date.

I forgot to update my CC info with Kebco and they had attempted to charge my old card in the meantime. Needless to say, it was declined. Kebco NEVER contacted me to request a different form of payment. They tried swiping the card again. It declined once more. I promptly sent them an email once I realized what happened; it took Kebco over three weeks to update my payment information. AND IT WASN'T THE EMAIL THAT PROMPTED THEM TO UPDATE MY PAYMENT INFO. I had to call them to say, "Hey. Why didn't you update my information I sent you via email?"

Good luck.

I doubt they will contact you.

Fat chance.

ArtooMetoo
05-20-2005, 07:37 PM
HEY!

I was just now going back and reading some old posts when I came across the one where I was asking which address to use for sending snail mail.

I see that the second address I asked about is gone and it says "(removed)" in its place. Now, that alone is not particularly weird, especially since another poster verified that he had sent his snail mail to the location that is still listed in my post.

The weird part is this: I requested that the USPS keep me updated of the status of my registered letter my email. I got a note that my letter was forwarded due to either a "wrong address or incorrect zip code."

This implies to me that the address we've been using (the 49 Newnan South Industrial Drive one) is not right, but I have no indication of what the correct address is, only that the Post Office forwarded (and has since delivered) it.

Who edited my previous post? Why? Is KEBco now somehow trying to hide their address? What is going on?

I'll keep updating with status of my credit card claims, etc. as news breaks.

dindae
05-20-2005, 09:40 PM
I don't know about the mysterious post but they supposedly are/were moving their office once again. I don't know what the new address is but that is why your letter shows wrong address. I remember worrying about If they would get my letter because of this. So that would put it around the 11th of April.

mrshiny
05-20-2005, 11:27 PM
I was charged the last 50% on two invoices plus shipping on April 21st. Still no sign of the packages or a UPS notification. :mad:

Same thing here - only it was 3 invoices:
12005 EP3 Tarfful 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Yoda Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Anakin Skywalker Slashing 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 4Star Case II 1.25 5.00 04/21/2005Pending

QuantityDescriptionUnit PriceTotalOrder DateStatus12005 EP3 Super Battle Droid 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Chewbacca 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 R2-D2 Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Grievous's Bodyguard 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Mace Windu 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Emperor Palpatine Force 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005Pending 6Star Case II 1.25 7.50 04/21/2005Pending

QuantityDescriptionUnit PriceTotalOrder DateStatus12005 EP3 Deluxe Anakin Skywalker 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Deluxe Emperor Palpatine 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005Pending 12005 EP3 Deluxe Obi-Wan Kenobi 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005Pending

mrshiny
05-20-2005, 11:32 PM
My letter was received and signed for by Ken (although addressed to Scott) on 5/12. I used the Industrial Drive address, but the "address of recipient" is listed as:

17 Jefferson St,

NEWNAN, GA 30263

Jedi Drew
05-21-2005, 07:32 AM
My letter was addressed to Scott at the Industrial address. It was signed for on 4/21/05-but still no refund. I think that these guys got in waaaayy over their head with this one of every figure club thing. I'll keep you all posted if I hear anything....Good Luck...Drew.

mrshiny
05-21-2005, 08:36 AM
OK, I've been thinking about this. Since they aren't responding to anyone at all, and since no one has been getting shipments it seems, what can they be doing? Yes, they are over their heads, and I'm afraid sooner or later that can only mean one thing: bankruptcy. Now here's the catch - the more of us that get our money back now, the sooner that will be, but if we wait, we become the end of a long line of creditors (behind rent, merchandise bought on credit, etc.)

My advice is for everyone to get all of their money out now. Write them that you are cancelling all your open orders and dispute every charge with your credit card company. The sad fact is if you don't do it now, there may be no one to get money from in the future.

It takes almost no effort oin their part to send an email or post on their web page. They aren't even doing that. The only thing they are apparently doing is moving, and I'm guessing it's because they can't make rent at the last place.

rassmguy
05-21-2005, 09:14 AM
One thing is eminnently clear -- KEBco is going down. They don't reply to anyone, even after months of e-mails. They don't answer their phones, ever. They don't send any shipments. They don't update their website news. They don't update the order status of customers. They keep pushing out goods on eBay that customers have paid for and have long been waiting for. They, in every way, ignore the needs and wants of their paying customer base, and people should get out NOW before they lose all their money. KEBco is a lousy organization managed by two guys who haven't a clue how to run a business.

TheBigSloppy
05-21-2005, 05:34 PM
They don't answer their phones, ever.

WHERE ARE YOU KEN?
http://www22.verizon.com/utilities/peoplepages/?ftype=wp&whichpages=white&SRC=&STYPE=WS&PS=15&PI=1&process=yes&WF=ken&WL=barnette&T=newnan&S=GA&x=0&y=0

WHERE ARE YOU SCOTT?
http://www22.verizon.com/utilities/peoplepages/?SRC=&STYPE=WS&PS=15&PI=1&process=yes&WF=scott&WL=barnette&T=&S=GA&x=0&y=0

Jedi Drew
05-22-2005, 08:01 AM
WHERE ARE YOU KEN?
http://www22.verizon.com/utilities/peoplepages/?ftype=wp&whichpages=white&SRC=&STYPE=WS&PS=15&PI=1&process=yes&WF=ken&WL=barnette&T=newnan&S=GA&x=0&y=0

WHERE ARE YOU SCOTT?
http://www22.verizon.com/utilities/peoplepages/?SRC=&STYPE=WS&PS=15&PI=1&process=yes&WF=scott&WL=barnette&T=&S=GA&x=0&y=0

Nice........ ;) this may help thanks... ;)

stillakid
05-22-2005, 09:50 AM
In addition to the letters explaining my specific issues, I also sent a copy of this thread (most of it) in the envelope to the Fraud department at the credit card company. I received a phone call on SATURDAY :eek: requesting that I get in touch with them immediately. They apparently see that there is trouble brewing in Georgia and aren't amused.

jedi-cpa
05-23-2005, 11:59 AM
Nothing new since early april...

I tried to be nice and at least buy the ep III stuff I said I would buy...but this is ridiculous!

I have a bad feeling about this.

mrshiny
05-23-2005, 12:43 PM
Me too, but when they can't even fire off a quick reply, it makes me think they are more worried about filing bankruptcy papers than getting out product! 5/1 they said they had 10,000 figures come in, but the only report I've seen is someone getting 6 of those. That's 9,994 figures that I bet they are trying to convert into cash to get creditors off their backs.



This is all conjecture - if it's wrong, you'd think they'd speak up and set it right.

Has anyone had any contact with them in any form this month?

dindae
05-23-2005, 01:18 PM
This is all conjecture - if it's wrong, you'd think they'd speak up and set it right.

They did pop in here once a while back to contradict this. Unfortunately they didn't take down some names and make us all happy when they were doing so. They also posted the following on their web page.

Current News 05/01/05
EP3 Club Member Pre-Orders and Update

There have been rumors on some of the forums that KEBco Toys is out of business and has tried to steal money from customers. Of course both rumors are false. What is true is we have recently moved to a new 10,000 square foot retail facility and are currently contacting customers who have concerns about current and upcoming EP3 product.

As has been the case for 2 to 3 years now, about 80% of what you read on the forums is not even close to the truth. We do owe some customers refunds for product that was not able to be delivered in 2004 and these refunds are currently being processed. Many of these refunds are being delayed with our credit card processor because certain individuals have tried to file fraudulent chargebacks on product that was actually delivered to them months ago. The delays are due to the time it takes to communicate with our processor to have these chargebacks reversed. We are currently working out these problems and will have them solved in the next 3 to 4 weeks.

Currently we are continuing to ship EP3 product. We received a large shipment of product today and in the next 7 to 10 days we will be shipping out about 10,000 EP3 basic figures to current Club Members. We will continue to receive EP3 product for the next several months and will fill current Pre-Orders as quickly as possible.

We do appreciate your business...KEBco Toys

mrshiny
05-23-2005, 02:22 PM
Right. My point is since that post on their web page, nothing. That was 22 days ago. No product, no contact, no comment. If they had 10,000 figures on 5/1, shouldn't someone have gotten some by now?

dindae
05-23-2005, 03:11 PM
I don't see them popping in here every couple of weeks to say they are still in business when they don't answer their emails. As far as the 10000 figures go I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out the statistic of 95% of OTC/VOTC figures being shipped when 100% of the people I talk to only recieved 70% of the figures they ordered.

WesleySr
05-23-2005, 06:05 PM
Well, Ken, if you are reading this, I WARNED YOU. You have failed to answer my phone calls, my emails, and even my complaint with the BBB. I have filed a chargeback with Discover for the 12/10/2004 charge. Invoice #10334. The one that is pending that should have been shipped in 10 days. So, they will be contacting you. As for the other 50% of my deposit that was charged on 7/5/2004, they are sending me the papers to dispute it as well.

I am warning all of you that are still dealing with KebCo. GET OUT NOW. They are blowing smoke up our a$$es. They are probably in the process of filing for bankruptcy right now. Don't wait until it is too late.

Also, to anyone who is interested, here are several links to file complaints for fraud:

FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC)
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/

The National Consumer Complaint Center for Internet Fraud, False Advertising and Breached Warranties(NCCC)
http://www.alexanderlaw.com/nccc/cb-ftc.html

National Fraud Information Center (NFIC)
http://68.166.162.20/repoform.htm

Federal Trade Commission (FTC) FTC Consumer Complaint Form
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

rassmguy
05-23-2005, 06:36 PM
The owners of KEBco Toys are criminals and should be treated as such. Anyone still waiting for figures instead of getting out now is just asking to be screwed over.

Vortex
05-23-2005, 07:21 PM
In addition to the letters explaining my specific issues, I also sent a copy of this thread (most of it) in the envelope to the Fraud department at the credit card company. I received a phone call on SATURDAY :eek: requesting that I get in touch with them immediately. They apparently see that there is trouble brewing in Georgia and aren't amused.

Keep us posted. I'm drafting my letter this week and I'm at the point where I just want to say screw the letter and let my CC company deal with it. I've had to do it in the past with a clothes retailer who double charged me and stiffed me on some articles.

All the documentation I had with that issuse just wound up sitting around in a desk drawer and never used so I'm heavily debating just scrapping the letter and going directly to the CC company and saying hey, stop payment and go get them suckers. I only had 5 orders in, one was cancelled and I was never reimbursed, 2 were shipped and I'm still waiting on two that I know I'll never see.

But let me/us know if there's a lawsuite brewing

mrshiny
05-24-2005, 12:46 AM
Let the credit carc company handle it, I say. I was really hoping for some signs of life - but look at one of their last updates:

Archived News http://www.kebcotoys.com/Merchant2/bullet1.gif02/03/05
EP3 Sneak Preview Pre-Orders

One of Every Figure Club Member Pre-Orders for the EP3 Sneak Preview figures should be completely filled in the next 2 weeks.

Did anyone get these? I know I didn't. You know, I would have let them hold on to some of my money had I just gotten some indication they are trying. I'm trying to get out now. Now I just need to figure how much other than my last 6 months of credit card charges they owe me.

If someone seriously puts together a suit, I'm in. Isn't it Federal as it crosses state lines?

WesleySr
05-24-2005, 07:41 AM
Well, here is the email I fired off to KebCo after filing a complaint with Discover card:

Hello,

All I can say is "I WARNED YOU". I have filed a complaint with Discover card for your failure to deliver goods. You can refuse to answer my emails, answer your phones, and answer the complaint with the BBB, but I doubt very seriously that Discover will put up with it. I have tried everything to keep this from happening, but your poor customer service has left me no choice. Actually, it would be your LACK of customer service, since you apparently have none.

I work in law enforcement and what you have done constitutes fraud. Receiving money for goods and then failure to deliver the goods or refund the money is a CRIME. It is credit card fraud, internet fraud, and could possibly be considered mail fraud. You can sit there and take time to defend yourself on the sirstevesguide.com forums, but you can't take the time to answer emails? I hope that all of your customers realize what kind of people you are and start filing complaints with their credit card companies as well.

When I have more time to devote to this, I will go online and file every online fraud complaint that I can. Don't bother responding to this email, as I really don't care what lies you are going to say anyways. Although, I would probably die from cardiac arrest if you did respond.

Insincerely,
Wesley J. Smith
Former Member of the Almost One Of Every Figure Club


I wonder if they are even reading our emails anymore. I am telling all of you, DO NOT WAIT ANY LONGER, they are going down. KebCo is the Titanic and it has struck the iceberg, don't wait until it is too late. FILE YOUR COMPLAINTS WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY NOW, BEFORE THEY FILE BANKRUPTCY. Use the links that I posted earlier and file online fraud complaints against KebCo. Let them know that we mean business.

TheBigSloppy
05-24-2005, 02:58 PM
Their phone number is advertised on their store front (yes, they actually have a store) and is the SAME DISAPPOINTING number that we already know:

678.423.3340

If there is any good news in this, they exist in terms of having brick and mortar. THE IRONY is that they are located next to a law firm. Go figure.

Getting closer I am, boys ...

mrshiny
05-24-2005, 03:13 PM
Are you actually in their area? If so, I'm wondering if you could visit them and see if you could get any sort of answer out of them for those on these boards. If you do, ask them about Jeffrey Carey's shipments!

jedi-cpa
05-24-2005, 04:23 PM
Don't go overboard...criminal is harsh and thus far not the case.

They are bad business people.

Out of all 10,000 figures, none of them have found their way to my account. That is how many days since they alledgedly arrived?

They did not deliver the way they said they would. For sure. One of every figure was never doable...and they should have never billed it as such.

But let's be sane.

WesleySr
05-24-2005, 04:47 PM
Don't go overboard...criminal is harsh and thus far not the case.

Criminal, in my account, is the case. On 12/10/2004, KebCo charged me $15.72, which included the 50% for the remaining 5 OTC figures that I had on pre-order and $5 for shipping. Their status was changed to pending, which means that they should have been shipped by 12/20 (give or take a couple of days due to "peak" times). It has been 5 months. I have received no answer to several emails, phone calls, and even a complaint with the BBB.

I am just thankful that I am not one of the hundreds of people who are still waiting on Preview/ROTS merchandise. They never got back to me with a price for Non-Mint figures and therefore never charged me my deposit.

TheBigSloppy
05-24-2005, 04:56 PM
Are you actually in their area? If so, I'm wondering if you could visit them and see if you could get any sort of answer out of them for those on these boards. If you do, ask them about Jeffrey Carey's shipments!

I live in Washington, D.C., not in Georgia. The information I have gathered has been through investigative means. First, I looked at their eBay sales which has their new address. Second, I did a reverse address / phone number lookup to one of their neighbors - which happens to be a lawfirm (that does not practice small claims cases, nor consumer fraud cases such as ours).

I phoned the lawfirm. The kind receptionist strolled over to Kebco to get the phone number that is displayed in the store window. Unfortunately, as I have mentioned it is the very one we have all been trying to call. The woman also mentioned that there appears to be a lawnmower repair shop in or adjacent to Kebco - she seemed to think it was part of the same operation. The name of the repairshop is something like "Absolute Mower and Repair," although I have been unable to find any information about this company.

That is all I have for now.

If I come across any additional information I will keep you abreast.

BTW: In one month, complaints to the BBB have increased from 5 to 14. Many of these complaints have been unanswered by Kebco.

TheBigSloppy
05-24-2005, 05:51 PM
A curious sidenote: HAS ANYONE EVER RECEIVED A PRE-ORDER POLICY UPDATE FROM KEBCO?

Here is an excerpt from the new and improved pre-order policy:

"...Starting with the Post OTC waves and continuing with the Episode Three figures we will not offer refunds on any 50% Pre-Order deposits. Please be sure of what you want before you order."

LOL.
For full-text version go here:
http://www.kebcotoys.com/Merchant2/preorderpolicy.mv?referrer=

BTW: I received a shipment of six figures, delivered early May. The figures included duplicates of Padme, Agen Kolar, Battle Droid, Kit Fisto, Royal Guard and Mon Mothma.

Thanks Kebco. Now refund me the remaining $1,000+ I have loaned you.

WesleySr
05-24-2005, 05:58 PM
That little excerpt doesn't help them at all. Failure to deliver goods is failure to deliver goods, no matter what kind of policy that they have in place. CONTACT YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY AND DISPUTE THE CHARGES. I don't know how many times that I can say this. DO IT NOW. Before they file bankruptcy and keep all of your hard-earned money.

mrshiny
05-25-2005, 09:13 AM
Read further: If for any reason KEBco Comic and Toy Emporium cannot fill your order completely, either by our mistake or because sufficient inventory is not shipped to us by Hasbro, any and all Pre-Order deposits will then be refunded or applied to other items that you may have on order.

dindae
05-25-2005, 10:32 AM
Refunds will be issued, we will ship 10 days after moving to pending, and Santa Claus give toys to all the children of the world.

TheBigSloppy
05-25-2005, 10:41 AM
Didn't there use to be an advertisement, a small callout box for the "One of Every Figure" club on the top right of Kebco's homepage?

SirSteve
05-25-2005, 10:42 AM
PLEASE NOTICE:

You have the right to complain and we allow that but please, do not post someone's personal information in public (such as a home address).

dindae
05-25-2005, 10:50 AM
I was going to stop by on my way to Florida last time I went but forgot. If I ever make concrete plans to go down again I will try to get everyone's info and go in and get some answers. I don't have a cell phone but maybe I can borrow one from a friend.

TheBigSloppy
05-25-2005, 10:51 AM
PLEASE NOTICE:

You have the right to complain and we allow that but please, do not post someone's personal information in public (such as a home address).


Sir Steve, with all due respect, I do not believe posting a business address constitutes or violates an individual's personal rights. If the person's business were run out of their home, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. However, a brick and mortar business address (that I posted) is and should be public domain.

dindae
05-25-2005, 11:02 AM
BigSloppy he was referring to the person who posted the results of verizon phone look ups for Ken and Scott.

TheBigSloppy
05-25-2005, 11:15 AM
BigSloppy he was referring to the person who posted the results of verizon phone look ups for Ken and Scott.

Admittedly, I posted those links to Verizon's search engine. However, I also posted the new address to KBT, which I believe is no longer available.

I guess to play it safe, revisit my old posts ...and edit them.

mrshiny
05-26-2005, 08:33 AM
There is absolutely no private information being given to say that all letters to KebCo should now be addressed to:



17 Jefferson St.

NEWNAN, GA 30263

This is the public address thgey now have on file with the United States Post Office as shown on my proof of delivery to them. It is a public place of busines, not a private address. People should be able to write to the correct address. KebCo is so busy shipping those 10,000 figures, they haven't had time to update their web site.

phillinley
05-26-2005, 12:14 PM
I think I'm going to buy one of the 1500 auctions they have going on right now and see if I can get in contact with them through an ebay message. If I can't get any good communication about my orders there, I will leave bad feedback. If they won't listen to our e-mails, answer our phone calls or ship out our existing orders, then there is no way we should let them keep making money by selling stuff on ebay while we wait for them to file chapter 11. Enough bad feedback through ebay will stop there sales there as well.

ArtooMetoo
05-26-2005, 12:20 PM
Honestly, I don't personally think it's a good idea to bid on ebay auctions without the intent to pay, although I have considered it as an option to get KEBco to contact me. It will only serve to hurt your ebay rating as a non-paying bidder.

In a surprising turn of events, I received an email from Scott this morning.

However, in the interest of keeping good will, I choose not to reproduce his email here on this forum. Suffice it to say that Scott told me that valid credit card chargebacks should be dealt with soon, and that normal day-to-day business operations should resume in a few weeks (after dealing with an unspecified number of invalid chargebacks).

TheBigSloppy
05-26-2005, 12:42 PM
I have read all posts regarding Kebco Toys on both SirSteves and its competitor, RS. I have composed a list of individuals who have CLEARLY STATED that they, whether presently or at one time in the past, had an issue about the way Kebco conducts business. More specifically, these buyers feel as if they may have been or are victims of possible consumer fraud.

By my count, 47 consumers have voiced complaints on these forums.

jedi-cpa
05-26-2005, 01:07 PM
That is how many 6 figure lots Kebco SHOULD be able to add to peoples pending lists and consequently ship.

I don't know about you, but I don't think there is ANY WAY they have 1667 one of every figure club members. Thus, we should be getting far more than 6 figures added...

BTW, this disturbs me:


Suffice it to say that Scott told me that valid credit card chargebacks should be dealt with soon, and that normal day-to-day business operations should resume in a few weeks

A COUPLE OF WEEKS???

Are you kidding?

A couple of weeks!

What a friggin joke. HIRE SOMEBODY!!! Better yet...pull your eBay operation for a couple of weeks and work for the customers WHOSE MONEY YOU ARE HOLDING ONTO ALREADY!!!!!

Unbelievable.

phillinley
05-26-2005, 01:27 PM
No I have the intention of paying for my auction. I'm just going to demand it be shipped wth the rest of the $750 dollars worth of figures I've already paid for. I'm a member of the GIJoe and Star Wars one of every figure club so I got a lot on back order with nothing shipped to me all year.

jjreason
05-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Criminal, in my account, is the case. On 12/10/2004, KebCo charged me $15.72, which included the 50% for the remaining 5 OTC figures that I had on pre-order and $5 for shipping. Their status was changed to pending, which means that they should have been shipped by 12/20 (give or take a couple of days due to "peak" times). It has been 5 months. I have received no answer to several emails, phone calls, and even a complaint with the BBB.

I am just thankful that I am not one of the hundreds of people who are still waiting on Preview/ROTS merchandise. They never got back to me with a price for Non-Mint figures and therefore never charged me my deposit.

Hi WesleySr. Just as a point of interest - I don't think what you have there constitutes criminal fraud. To prove fraud you don't just have to prove that you didn't get your stuff - you have to prove that KEBco never intended to ship you the goods. To do that, you'd need evidence of conversations to that effect (ie - a confession to an investigator or recordings of conversations about purposefully NOT shipping stuff to customers) or paperwork from within the company clearly indicating that no stuff was to be shipped upon receipt of money. That won't be found, unless someone authorized a phone tap and got conversations to that affect, obtained a warned statement from Ken or Scott, or executed a search warrant on the business in hopes of finding documentation to support the charge. I don't think anyone is going to go to these investigative lengths to seek out enough evidence for charges in a cases (or cases) of this relatively minor magnitude.

What you've got is a civil agreement gone sour, and the remedy for that is found in the civil courts, not the criminal ones.

Good luck.

ArtooMetoo
05-26-2005, 03:00 PM
Regarding jedi-cpa's comment on the number of Figure Club members: I recall asking Scott many months ago how many members there were and how many were "in line" before me in terms of receiving figures (under the assumption that the Club is set up on a first-come, first served basis which is to say that the first person who signed up for the Club would get their figures before all the others members).

I don't recall his exact reply, but I do remember there were several hundred members in line before me, and I've been a member for four years now.

Also, as a carded AND open collector, I get two of each figure.

Perhaps it's not that out of the ballpark that there are over 1500 members at this point.

TheBigSloppy
05-26-2005, 03:35 PM
...I recall asking Scott many months ago how many members there were and how many were "in line" before me in terms of receiving figures (under the assumption that the Club is set up on a first-come, first served basis which is to say that the first person who signed up for the Club would get their figures before all the others members).

I received a different answer from Ken. He explained to me that shipments are sent alphabetically. He said to keep shipments to their customers 'fair', they (Kebco) alternate each major shipment. For example, this week they may ship to those whose last names begin with A-K (starting with 'a'), then next week ship to those whose last names begin with L-Z (starting with 'z').

jedi-cpa
05-26-2005, 04:40 PM
...I recall asking Scott many months ago how many members there were and how many were "in line" before me in terms of receiving figures (under the assumption that the Club is set up on a first-come, first served basis which is to say that the first person who signed up for the Club would get their figures before all the others members).



I received a different answer from Ken. He explained to me that shipments are sent alphabetically. He said to keep shipments to their customers 'fair', they (Kebco) alternate each major shipment. For example, this week they may ship to those whose last names begin with A-K (starting with 'a'), then next week ship to those whose last names begin with L-Z (starting with 'z').

You're both wrong...noone get shipped their stuff in any order. HAHAHAHAHA

TheBigSloppy
05-27-2005, 10:24 AM
THE FOLLOWING IS A SUMMARY OF WHAT I WAS BILLED FOR IN 2004. NOTE THE COLUMNS IN RED. ALSO NOTE THE TOTAL OF MISCELLANEOUS DEBITS FROM MY ACCOUNT. Click the link to download PDF:

http://65.118.73.62/lindeman/kebcopayments.pdf

The following email was sent to Scott on March 14 about my 2004 payments (I have not heard from him):

Attached is a PDF of all transactions that occurred during 2004. You will
notice in the red columns that I have overpaid $544.46 for items either
never received ($300.85), orders with overcharges ($80.90), or additional
debits to my banking card in which there is no online KEBco order record for
($162.71 total).

The overall total may be offset by $52.45 because I did receive Orders no.
9147 and* no. 10724, which included 10 figures from the Vintage OTC line. 50
percent was applied March 2, 2004; however, I cannot determine when final
payment was debited from my bank account because there wasn't any
deduction from said account at the time this order was shipped. That is why
you will see question marks on the attached PDF file.

The vintage OTC figure I have not received from you to date is Han Solo.
Which is curious, because you added a new order for the OTC Vintage Yoda
on March 10, 2005 and changed Order no. 10724.

Please contact me as soon as possible. I am certain you will have questions;
and I should hopefully have the answers.

I would like to resolve this issue immediately.

Thank you,

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 11:37 AM
Well, amazingly, eBay auctions allow you to get a response, albeit very general. Note Artoo, I PAID for the item I bought from their store on eBay - instantly in fact. Here's what they sent me:




Hi Jeffrey,

I'm sure you are aware of the recent postings on the boards. I will try to give you an update.

We have been receiving shipments of EP3 product the past 2 months and are continuing to ship product.

We are focusing on just Club Members and are not even selling figures to other customers.

There have been some issues over the past 6 to 8 weeks with our credit card processor concerning chargebacks and this has caused major delays with shipping, charging orders and issuing legitimate refunds.

About 80% of the chargebacks that have been filed are from customers that received their merchandise months ago. Why these people believe they can get their money back for items already received is puzzling. It has taken more time than I thought to have all of these chargebacks reversed.

In the next 6 to 7 days I will be sending a Newsletter to all Club Members with an update on what we are currently shipping and when we expect to ship remaining EP3 product for the year.

We are going to try and get caught up with all Club Member shipments by the end of June. We currently have 100's of shipments packaged and ready to ship, but they are being delayed by the issues with our credit card processor. We did get word yesterday that the account should be straightened out by the middle of next week.

At that time we will begin shipping out more packages to Club Members and will be working to catch up for the entire month of June. I will be sending several updates to all Club Members starting late next week.



KEBco Toys
Scott Barnette - Business Manager
www.kebcotoys.com (http://www.kebcotoys.com/) 1-877-My-KEBco

This is ridiculous. There would have been no chargebacks if they communicated and shipped what they said. I have items I paid for in 2003 that I have not gotten! I have many 2004 items that show as pending, charged in full that I did not get. They owed me $243 BEFORE any of the Episode III product! I think I've been very patient. I STILL don't know the status on MY figures. My last name begins with a "C."

I have no reason to believe them at all. Why would any rational customer? I was charged $62.93 for payment in full on 14 OTC figures on 12/10/2004 that I still do not have by their accounts. Did anyone get these? Hoth Vader, etc.? They show "PENDING." Since 12/10/2004.

I'll gladly accept the product I ordered and cancel my credit card disputes, but I do not think they have my product.

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 12:17 PM
More response! How sad is it that I had to buy somethig from eBay from them to get the response they owed me. Note the 14 figures they say I have "slim chance" of gettin are in PENDING and I was charged for them in 2004! Also the Jedi scenes "ON HOLD" sat there on hold apparently while two other shipments went out! And I've sent them the list of 2003 figures they show as ORDERED, but not shipped.


Hi Jeffrey,

As far as 2004 figures :

The last 3 Saga figures were of course short-packed and production on the last Saga wave was cut by about 50% by Hasbro. So of course we never received all of our order. I thought we had refunded everyone for these, but I see we have not refunded you. I will make sure we do once we have the problems resolved with our credit card processor.

You also are due refunds for the Galactic Hero figure of Chewbacca and C3PO and three Post OTC figures of Myo, Dannik Jerriko and Feltipern Trevagg. We did not receive enough of these figures to fill all orders.

You do ask for 15 items to be Held for each shipment, so you have the OTC Jedi Council Scenes 3 and 4 on Hold waiting to ship with your next shipment.

You have not received the last 14 OTC figures from 2004. We still have slim hopes of receiving more of these from aftermarket sources. We have received a few recently, but not enough to fill all orders. Would you like to wait longer on these or I can go ahead and refund you on these too.

I do not show anything from 2003 that did not ship to you, please let me know.




KEBco Toys
Scott Barnette - Business Manager
www.kebcotoys.com (http://www.kebcotoys.com/) 1-877-My-KEBco

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 01:04 PM
Yet more - here along with my response.



"It's not really your Ebay purchase that made me respond to your previous emails. But since I saw your name I took the time to stop everything else I was doing and research your account and answer your questions."

I wonder then why you didn't do it before, even when you received my letter.


"But I cannot do that every hour of every day. If I did I would do nothing but answer emails for 6 straight months.

I cannot devote that much time to emails. I try to answer them when I can."


If you answered people, you would not have so many emails. If you don't have the staff to provide customer service as your web site promises (attempting 48-72 hour response), that is not the customer's problem.




"When we invoiced for the last 14 OTC figures we anticipated receiving all of our order, but we only received about 60% of the initial order. So we have been trying to find more for several months now."



According to your web site, you only move items into pending when they are received and ready to ship. Since you made this error,why didn't you refund me the 50% charged and place the items into back order status?


"The reason the OTC Scenes were invoiced back in July is we charge the full amount on any Exclusive figures to make sure the customer truly wants them."

Is this policy on your site (it may be, but I couldn't locate it)? When were the scenes received?



"On those 2003 figures I show that all of them shipped back in March, April and May of 2003 and I even have tracking numbers of the shipments they were included with. You say those 2003 figures show as not received, where do they show as not received? And when did you first tell us you did not receive figures from 2 years ago?"

It is not the customer's duty to track their orders with you. Until recently, I trusted you, so I did not audit my account. If you look at my 2003 "items ordered", and my 2003 "items processed", you will see that the items I sent you are all on the ordered page, but none show as shipped. If this is a clerical error, please provide me proof of delivery.

I am sorry you are understaffed and have been shorted orders. This unfortunate circumstance however does not give you free reign to dishonor your commitments. You commited to provide me a service that included "one of every figure." When it was obvious you probably couldn't deliver, it was not acceptible to keep my money without even notifying me. You say this:
"Pending - This item(s) has been invoiced and moved into our shipping department. The item(s) will usually ship within 7 to 10 days. When product is first received or during peak times, the shipping time may increase" yet by your own admission, I have items that show as "Pending" on my account that were not only never moved into your shipping department, but never even existed in my account allocation.

ALL of this could have been avoided with communication. The emails, the charge back, the complete loss of good will. I cannot understand why anyone in business would let things deteriorate so far when simple honest communication would have prevented so much hardship on both sides.

Dark Helmet
05-27-2005, 01:26 PM
I ahve noticed the anacronym VOTC used in this thread and excuse my lack of knowledge but does it standard for "vintage original trilogy collection"? I don't know what the V stands for.:confused:

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 01:50 PM
V=Vintage. These figures came in clam shell cases and were on vintage style cards.

ArtooMetoo
05-27-2005, 01:59 PM
mrshiny--

I am astounded that Scott actually responded to you. I replied to his email to me within half an hour, but have not yet heard back from him (it is now 26+ hours since I wrote to him).

I heartily agree with all the points you make.

My feeling is that the staff over there needs to put a stop to their attempts to clear up their chargebacks and concentrate full time on giving their customers a full and detailed accounting of which figures have and have not shipped, along with a complete listing of charges to their card. And, in my opinion, there is no other fair way to do this than by seniority. The first person to sign up for the club should get priority.

My opinion.

dindae
05-27-2005, 02:27 PM
My take on what is happening there is he is being forced to deal with all the fraud claims so that he can start using the credit card prossesor again. So since they can't charge anyone they can't ship the products they have now. Also they won't address anyone who does not have a chargeback because not being able to process cards is a big issue for an oline company. So I doubt I will see a credit for a couple weeks unless I do a chargeback.

ArtooMetoo
05-27-2005, 02:34 PM
My chargeback was initially file with my credit card company on April 29, nearly a month ago.

They need lots of very specific details that are a real pain to put together. Be ready to spend some time generating a list like TheBigSloppy's. And get busy, people. You can expect this process to take as much as a few months.

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 03:02 PM
Right - get everything together. Their excuses are weak - what was preventing them from contacting us before people got fed up and started initiating chargebacks? All of their problems are of their own making. Had they kept their customers n the loop, there would be no need for chargebacks.

Why it took me weeks just to get a refund on Star Cases that they charged me for for VOTC figures (which of course have their own cases!).

Another thing is really missing from them. Re-reading Scott's responses, I see excuse after excuse, but never the word, "sorry."

Also, they admit more workload and strained resources, but do they ever say what they are doing to address this situation? No, they are just trying hard. Well, if you couldn't keep up with the resources you had before, then what makes you think you can catch up now?

I started this very willing to work with them, but they continue to put up wall after wall and do not seek any real solutions. So they can't do anything with credit cards right now. Their Paypal account obviously works - refund me that way. Also, a check in an old fashoned envelope with a stamp would probably reach me before their promised refunds (which they should have automatically given me months ago!). That's fine too, so long as it clears.

WesleySr
05-27-2005, 04:31 PM
Hi WesleySr. Just as a point of interest - I don't think what you have there constitutes criminal fraud. To prove fraud you don't just have to prove that you didn't get your stuff - you have to prove that KEBco never intended to ship you the goods. To do that, you'd need evidence of conversations to that effect (ie - a confession to an investigator or recordings of conversations about purposefully NOT shipping stuff to customers) or paperwork from within the company clearly indicating that no stuff was to be shipped upon receipt of money. That won't be found, unless someone authorized a phone tap and got conversations to that affect, obtained a warned statement from Ken or Scott, or executed a search warrant on the business in hopes of finding documentation to support the charge. I don't think anyone is going to go to these investigative lengths to seek out enough evidence for charges in a cases (or cases) of this relatively minor magnitude.

What you've got is a civil agreement gone sour, and the remedy for that is found in the civil courts, not the criminal ones.

Good luck.

Interesting, however you left out one very IMPORTANT option. To prove that they have no intentions of shipping the goods, all I would have to find out is if they have the goods. THEY CAN'T DELIVER THEM, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THEM.

Here are the figures that they still owe me that are "Pending":

OTC Basic 2004 Tusken Raider
OTC Basic 2004 Jawas 2-pack
OTC Basic 2004 Snowtrooper
OTC Basic 2004 Gamorrean Guard
OTC Basic 2004 Imperial Trooper

Do you honestly think that they still have these figures? NO. Wait a minute, let me rephrase that - HELL NO!!!

So therefore, they have taken money for items that they have no intentions of delivering.

Either way, it makes no difference. My credit card company will deal with them.

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 04:47 PM
I'm no lawyer, but I think charging in full for product you are not in possession of may constitute fraud.

dindae
05-27-2005, 05:00 PM
The difference that jjreason was trying to point out is that if Kebco was guilty of criminal fraud they either a intentionally never placed an order for the fugres while taking our money or never intended to fill the orders. I doubt this is the case.

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 05:14 PM
No - they did intentionally charge people the full amount for figures they knew they did not have, contrary to both their published policies, and I think the law.

WesleySr
05-27-2005, 05:15 PM
The difference that jjreason was trying to point out is that if Kebco was guilty of criminal fraud they either a intentionally never placed an order for the fugres while taking our money or never intended to fill the orders. I doubt this is the case.

The proof is in the email response that mrshiny posted:




"When we invoiced for the last 14 OTC figures we anticipated receiving all of our order, but we only received about 60% of the initial order. So we have been trying to find more for several months now."

According to your web site, you only move items into pending when they are received and ready to ship. Since you made this error,why didn't you refund me the 50% charged and place the items into back order status?


I have been charged the 2nd half of for the figures that I have not received. I have also been charged shipping for the figures. Just like mrshiny pointed out, they should have only charged the me the remainder of my pre-order when they had them in stock. But, by their own admission, they violated their own contract and charged me for something that they never had.

Now they are refusing to refund my money. That is criminal fraud because they have taken money under false pretenses and are refusing to give it back.

mrshiny
05-27-2005, 05:29 PM
Just got an email that they shipped my eBay item. They have time to run that eBay store, but not ship club member product.


I'm thinking perhaps they should reallocate their resources.

stillakid
05-27-2005, 07:55 PM
I'm thinking perhaps they should reallocate their resources.

I'm thinking that they should reallocate their resources back into my bank account. :mad:

Jedi Drew
05-27-2005, 10:45 PM
I'm thinking that they should reallocate their resources back into my bank account. :mad:
I hear ya brother, how about paying more attention to refunding the money to poeple that you owe??? Instead of your punk A@@ Ebay store???? :confused: Sorry, had to vent after reading all the new posts about this cluster Fu@@. Hope everyone has a safe and happy Memorial Day weekend and remember our fallen soldiers :cry: and those now serving :D .

TheBigSloppy
05-27-2005, 11:35 PM
Scott's comment only proves 1.) Kebco Toys is the most imcompetent, inept business on the planet or 2.) Kebco Toys is POSSIBLY committing consumer fraud.

Yes, I mean FRAUD. As in criminal activity.

And by the U.S. Dept. of Justice's definition, this MAY be what Kebco is doing:

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fraud/Internet.htm#What%20Are%20the%20Major%20Types%20of %20Internet

For Scott to say he was not aware that customers did not receive a refund for the Saga Madine wave is suspect at best. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I emailed Scott on March 14 with regard to billing concerns. I clearly showed that I was not refunded for items charged as early as Jan. 2004 - which by coincidence happens to be the Madine wave.

The time has come for Kebco to stop making excuses. Gentlemen, there is no need to wait for their supposed "credit card processor." Anyone ever hear of a checkbook? They must have a business checkbook? Heck, write me a personal check. Send payment through Paypal ...we know you have an account with them.

Two, three weeks is hogwash. Sounds like they are buying time. For what, I do not know.

dindae
05-27-2005, 11:36 PM
That is criminal fraud because they have taken money under false pretenses and are refusing to give it back.

While they did bill you for figures they did not have in hand they did believe they would have them in hand shortly and ship them to you. Yes when they got their boxes and found they didn't have enough figures they should have credited those people back their money. Think of it like hitting someone with your car and killing them. If you didn't mean to hit them it is man slaughter but it if you were lining them up with the hood ornament then it's murder. But it is just a billing error just like any other billing error you have ever had except they are doing nothing to fix it. It doesn't make it any less wrong it just doesn't have as stiff of penalties.

TheBigSloppy
05-27-2005, 11:49 PM
While they did bill you for figures they did not have in hand they did believe they would have them in hand shortly and ship them to you. Yes when they got their boxes and found they didn't have enough figures they should have credited those people back their money. Think of it like hitting someone with your car and killing them. If you didn't mean to hit them it is man slaughter but it if you were lining them up with the hood ornament then it's murder. But it is just a billing error just like any other billing error you have ever had except they are doing nothing to fix it. It doesn't make it any less wrong it just doesn't have as stiff of penalties.

Hey. I would buy into your argument if this were only one or two people having this problem. Instead, we are now up to 48 known people who have aired concern regarding how Kebco conducts their business.

Sure you can blame poor bookkeeping, clerical errors, etc., but the fact that this is happening to dozens of people rings of some kind of possible abuse. Keep in mind, we are not talking about a giant corporation who has many hands on the wheel. We know of at least two people, Ken and Scott, who are handling all business operations. So for one or the other to say (paraphrasing), "Huh, really? Thought we took care of that" surprises me. I simply cannot believe that both work in such a vacuum from each other that they do not know what each has or has not done.

Download my audit I did for 2004, you should note that I had miscellaneous debits that were not entered on their site as an order. Was this a localized mistake, or is this occurring across the spectrum of OOEF club members?

I suggest others look closely at their bank statements or credit card statements and do an extensive audit such as I did.

mrshiny
05-28-2005, 10:05 AM
The point is their own policy states items are pending only when they have been moved to shipping. So their financial control as to when to charge customers is the physical movement of items to shipping. The violated their own control, apparently willfully.

Turbowars
05-28-2005, 10:15 AM
Come on Kebco give these guys back their money!. I see that you are reading this thread so show some back bone. What a crap hole you run.:rolleyes:

Reefer Shark
05-28-2005, 12:33 PM
Yeah no kidding. I never ordered from Kebco, but for some reason I have been keeping up with this thread. It's like a train wreck, you have to look... I am appalled at Kebcos bussiness practice.

The fact that they ebay the same figures that they owe you guys is sickening. There's no valid excuse for that. Personally, I would like to see Kebco go down in flames (after you guys get your money back). It disgusts me to see fellow collectors get ripped off like this.

You guys that are fighting back by winning their auctions and demanding the goods with out paying are completely in the right. They already owe you those figures. They shouldn't be allowed to ebay until they refund you guys IMO.

Jedi Drew
05-28-2005, 01:45 PM
While they did bill you for figures they did not have in hand they did believe they would have them in hand shortly and ship them to you. Yes when they got their boxes and found they didn't have enough figures they should have credited those people back their money. Think of it like hitting someone with your car and killing them. If you didn't mean to hit them it is man slaughter but it if you were lining them up with the hood ornament then it's murder. But it is just a billing error just like any other billing error you have ever had except they are doing nothing to fix it. It doesn't make it any less wrong it just doesn't have as stiff of penalties.
Bottom line....Our money for figures=$0.00 in refund. I paid for a service and KEBco did not provide what they have promised. This is Fraud or Theft. It's one of the two. I hope someone knows some good lawyers so we all can get our money back...Kebco I hope you are reading this.......

WesleySr
05-28-2005, 03:41 PM
Think of it like hitting someone with your car and killing them. If you didn't mean to hit them it is man slaughter but it if you were lining them up with the hood ornament then it's murder.

Then if that is how we are thinking of it, here is KebCo:

KebCo hit me with their car and killed me. We have no way to prove whether or not they did it intentionally. However, they made no attempt to stop and see if I was alive. They just kept going and have never looked back.

That's alot more than manslaughter.

Sith Lord 0498
05-28-2005, 04:39 PM
Yeah no kidding. I never ordered from Kebco, but for some reason I have been keeping up with this thread. It's like a train wreck, you have to look... I am appalled at Kebcos bussiness practice.

The fact that they ebay the same figures that they owe you guys is sickening. There's no valid excuse for that. Personally, I would like to see Kebco go down in flames (after you guys get your money back). It disgusts me to see fellow collectors get ripped off like this.

You guys that are fighting back by winning their auctions and demanding the goods with out paying are completely in the right. They already owe you those figures. They shouldn't be allowed to ebay until they refund you guys IMO.

I've been following this thread for the same reason: train wreck.

However, I have ordered from KEBCo once, and I vowed never to do it again. I ordered a Han Solo Unleashed that was listed as "In StocK" because my local TRU was still 2 waves behind. It took nearly 2-3 months for the piece to arrive, and I'd already passed up buying it AT MY LOCAL TRU!!! They got their act together long before KEBCo.

My mistake was that I never contacted them about it. Stupidity on my part, I know. But that one experience was enough to stop me. Now, I see that I made the right decision. I could very well have ended up in the same boat.

I hope all of you that have been screwed over by these guys get all of your money back and give them a reason to go into bankruptcy. I don't like to see anyone lose their financial livelihood, but in this case it'd be fair for their business to collapse. They obviously have no right to be running any kind of business.

And I too have noticed KEBCo on the active user list several times over the past 2 months. Strange how they're always viewing this thread but almost never responding to it.

stillakid
05-28-2005, 08:39 PM
And I too have noticed KEBCo on the active user list several times over the past 2 months. Strange how they're always viewing this thread but almost never responding to it.

What could they say that wouldn't be incriminating. The fact is that they willfully placed orders on the PENDING status even though they didn't have them on hand. PENDING means that they charge the final 50% plus shipping and that it will be sent within 10 days. I have an order like that from December. I also currently have two ROTS orders like that billed in April. So clearly they are lying through their teeth and don't have the cash to refund what is owed us. Billing early gives them a little capital to keep the lease up but it isn't enough to actually obtain the merchandise or to ship it.

Contrary to their continued "explanations," these allegations aren't "lies" as they claim. These are very genuine situations.

rassmguy
05-28-2005, 10:47 PM
Well, we finally did it -- a post about Kebco for every day of the year. We can make a calendar out of this thread. <grin>

Kidhuman
05-28-2005, 11:55 PM
Well, I have been following this threade for two reasons, train wreck and modding. The train wreck is more fun.

KebCo is just disgraceful for this action of theirs. It is poor business and certainly took made me change my mind about ever using them. Selling stuff on Ebay while members dont have the same figure is horrid business tactics. WIth all the collectors that scour ebay, did they think no one would notice?

mrshiny
05-30-2005, 10:51 AM
Let me clear up a couple of things regarding my account.

1) The only items I'm missing per KebCo's web system that are on eBay are 2003 items. KebCo claims they shipped these, but that they only started listing shipped items on their site as of July 2003 (the dates on the site agree with this, however no where is it stated that I saw). I told them I'm willing to pay for the "missing" 2003 items if they can just produce proof of shipping, since I don't trust them anymore.

2) I did pay for the one auction I won from them. While they claim it was not the auction that prompted them to respond to me, yet my previous emails and certified letter gained no response.

3) They admit there are items in "Pending" status that they do not have and will probably never get. This includes:
Saga 2004 Han Solo AT-ST Driver
Saga 2004 General Madine
Saga 2004 General Lando
Galactic Heroes 2004 Chewbacca & C-3PO
EP3 2004 Preview Feltipern Trevagg
EP3 2004 Preview Myo
EP3 2004 Preview Dannik Jerriko
as well as the last 14 OTC figures.

4) They have put about 23 Ep3 figures into Pending status in February and April, but I am very suspicious if they have these figures at all. If they do, why have they not shipped, since by their own policy, these items have been moved to shipping all for over a month?

jjreason
05-30-2005, 01:37 PM
Let me clear up a couple of things regarding my account.

1) The only items I'm missing per KebCo's web system that are on eBay are 2003 items. KebCo claims they shipped these, but that they only started listing shipped items on their site as of July 2003 (the dates on the site agree with this, however no where is it stated that I saw). I told them I'm willing to pay for the "missing" 2003 items if they can just produce proof of shipping, since I don't trust them anymore.

Do they insure their packages? If so, they should be able to claim loss/damage if the box was sent and you didn't get it. Don't be in any hurry to pay for these figures, even if they can prove they shipped.




3) They admit there are items in "Pending" status that they do not have and will probably never get. This includes:
Saga 2004 Han Solo AT-ST Driver
Saga 2004 General Madine
Saga 2004 General Lando
Galactic Heroes 2004 Chewbacca & C-3PO
EP3 2004 Preview Feltipern Trevagg
EP3 2004 Preview Myo
EP3 2004 Preview Dannik Jerriko
as well as the last 14 OTC figures.

Well they're not "pending" as far as I'm concerned. "Pending" should mean they have the product in stock, and they're in the process of packing your box. If it's been that long - no way.

This is where KEBco needs to write off these orders and provide refunds. To string people along with excuses about trying to track more of these down through "after market sources" is both too costly, and too time consuming for them - a situation that they certainly don't need. Nobody wants to wait for these figures any more, give them there money back and let them track down the missing figures on their own.


4) They have put about 23 Ep3 figures into Pending status in February and April, but I am very suspicious if they have these figures at all. If they do, why have they not shipped, since by their own policy, these items have been moved to shipping all for over a month?

If they're "shipped", that's not out of the ordinary for KEBco. I waited an average of 6-8 weeks for each box after it went to "shipped" (mind you, I live in Canada and Customs would routinely search their boxes due to size and declared value). If they're still "pending", that means they're sitting there in the box, ready to be shipped - but haven't been. According to the one response they provided, they have "hundreds" of boxes ready to go - but (I'm assuming here) no money to pay the shipping costs with.

The fact that they've charged people for full figures AND shipping - and haven't provided the figures - is very disconcerting. With each box shipped, they need to be providing tracking numbers as PROOF that the stuff was sent. By doing that, they would take the responsibility for lost figures out of their own hands - I'm sure they always provided me with a tracking number.

Patience has always been required when dealing with them, but they've exceeded anyone's ability to remain calm. They should dedicate at least one person "full time" to sorting this mess out. They should contact each member and find out the customer's perceived account status. They should deal with each account, one by one, allowing each member to decide what they want to do (stay in, get out, get refunds, store credit - what have you). They should stop trying to get stuff that Hasbro isn't shipping anymore, and focus on catching up with the ROTS orders. They should do all these things - but I'm not very hopeful that they will. :ermm:

mrshiny
05-31-2005, 07:42 AM
Yes,, if they could just tell me what they have and what they don't have for me, that would be great. Since they have put many figures into "pending" in the past months that they did not even have, I don't believe that they have the Ep3 figures they say they do.

Never mind the overall status on the "One of Every Figure Club." The fact that they already blew this coupled with the fact that they don't even have the figures coming out in the next couple months (#45+) at all, and they haven't marked as pending some figures already out makes me believe that they don't even have sufficent orders to cover the figures coming out.

This is all a mess of their own making. Had they communicated with customers instead of acting very much like they were out of business, there would be no need for the chargebacks, which apparently have become very troublesome to them.

jedi-cpa
06-01-2005, 11:14 AM
Nothing...

Still waiting for another 6 to be moved into pending and then the group to be shipped.

I just want my Ep III figs and to be DONE with this.

How about an update kebco?!?!?!

mrshiny
06-01-2005, 02:30 PM
You are lucky. Here's what I have "pending." As you can see, I've been charged in full for figures since December 10, 2004, and this doesn't even count the other figures I've paid 50% for that I don't think I'll get. I don't believe Kebco has any of these figures and they have not given me any confirmation that they do (after repeated requests).

OTC Basic 2004 Tusken Raider 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Jawas 2-pack 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Snowtrooper 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Greedo 6.49 6.49 04/10/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Darth Vader Hoth 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Gamorrean Guard 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Bib Fortuna 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Lando Skiff 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Slave Leia 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Darth Vader New Hope 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Han Solo AT-ST 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 General Madine 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 General Lando 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
OTC Basic 2004 Imperial Trooper 6.49 6.49 06/18/2004 Pending
14 Star Case II 1.25 17.50 12/10/2004 Pending
2005 EP3 Sneak General Grievous 7.49 7.49 01/06/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Sneak Tion Medon 7.49 7.49 01/06/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Sneak Wookiee Warrior 7.49 7.49 01/06/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Sneak R4-G9 7.49 7.49 01/06/2005 Pending
4 Star Case II 1.25 5.00 02/16/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Padme 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Agen Kolar 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Battle Droid 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Kit Fisto 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Royal Guard 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Mon Mothma 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
6 Star Case II 1.25 7.50 04/04/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Tarfful 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Yoda Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Anakin Skywalker Slashing 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
4 Star Case II 1.25 5.00 04/21/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Super Battle Droid 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Chewbacca 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 R2-D2 Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Grievous's Bodyguard 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Mace Windu 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Emperor Palpatine Force 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
6 Star Case II 1.25 7.50 04/21/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Anakin Skywalker 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Emperor Palpatine 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Obi-Wan Kenobi 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending

WesleySr
06-01-2005, 03:15 PM
2005 EP3 Padme 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Agen Kolar 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Battle Droid 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Kit Fisto 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Royal Guard 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Mon Mothma 7.49 7.49 03/14/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Tarfful 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Yoda Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Obi-Wan Kenobi Jedi 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Anakin Skywalker Slashing 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Super Battle Droid 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Chewbacca 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 R2-D2 Attack 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Grievous's Bodyguard 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Mace Windu 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Emperor Palpatine Force 7.49 7.49 01/18/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Anakin Skywalker 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Emperor Palpatine 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending
2005 EP3 Deluxe Obi-Wan Kenobi 12.99 12.99 02/01/2005 Pending
I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW HOW THEY CAN JUSTIFY THESE CHARGES. The E3 figures didn't even start shipping until when? March?

I still have the KebCo email dated 1/19/2005, stating this:

Release Dates :

As a reminder to all of our customers we cannot pre-sell and ship any EP3 Sneak Peek product until Feb. 2nd, 2005 and any other EP3 product until April 2nd, 2005.

Furthermore, we cannot reveal any information such as the names of figures or pictures of figures until the Release Dates.

We will not be able to list any information on our website until these Release Dates.
How can they justify charging you something that they did not have in hand and knowingly could not ship until April 2nd anyways.

Shall I say it one more time? I shall...

GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!!

mrshiny
06-01-2005, 05:39 PM
OTC figures (that there never had and never will):
12/10/2004
Sneak preview figures (no idea if these are in their possession):
02/16/2005
First batch of Ep3 figures:
04/04/2005
Second batch of Ep3:
04/21/2005
Third batch:
04/21/2005
EP3 Deluxe wave 1:
04/21/2005
I really don't know what (if any) Ep3 figures they have - AND THEY WON'T TELL ME. I also have other figures from 2004-5 that have been charged 50% (that they will by their own admission probably never get), and the 2003 that they say show as not shipped because their online inquiry system is incomplete (those are the least of my problems - only about $50 worth).

I told them I'll take what they can ship and drop the disputes on those items. The point is they violated their own policy (if not the law) for charging me in full for merchandise they did not have.

I'm probably preaching to the choir, but if perhaps someone stumbles on this thread as I did last month who didn't know that others too are facing the same problems, then know that Kebco has done nothing to make us believe that they are not going to go bankrupt and hence take all your money away.

How strong can they be financially if they charged in advance for so many figures (against their policy), obviously to raise cash?

rassmguy
06-01-2005, 07:49 PM
I told them I'll take what they can ship and drop the disputes on those items.


Don't do that -- that's YOUR money you're letting them take. They owe you that money -- tell them you'll take them to court if you don't get an immediate refund for EVERYTHING, and when you do, give them a grand total that they owe you. Make it clear you won't accept any other outcome. I did, and I received nearly $300 as a refund. Be stern and be forceful -- and let them know that you're going to bring the law into this.

stillakid
06-01-2005, 08:08 PM
My card company first cancelled the account # KEBco had for me, so they can't charge anymore with contacting me first. This is primarily to protect me from any further pre-orders that haven't been done yet.

They just credited me for merchandise (Force Battlers) that I never asked to be ordered.

The only thing left to deal with is the unshipped, yet charged for PENDING items from 2004 and the newer ROTS stuff that was billed in full in April.

In the meantime, I'm mostly caught up with the ROTS stuff via the old fashioned shopping and trading way. While KEBco did what they promised for the most part, the party is over. :ermm:

WesleySr
06-02-2005, 12:44 AM
Don't do that -- that's YOUR money you're letting them take. They owe you that money -- tell them you'll take them to court if you don't get an immediate refund for EVERYTHING, and when you do, give them a grand total that they owe you. Make it clear you won't accept any other outcome. I did, and I received nearly $300 as a refund. Be stern and be forceful -- and let them know that you're going to bring the law into this.

How can you be stern and forceful with someone who refuses to answer their phones, emails, or snail mails? The only thing to do is a chargeback.

dr_evazan22
06-02-2005, 01:31 AM
Quote:
"It's not really your Ebay purchase that made me respond to your previous emails. But since I saw your name I took the time to stop everything else I was doing and research your account and answer your questions."

Quote:
"But I cannot do that every hour of every day. If I did I would do nothing but answer emails for 6 straight months.

I cannot devote that much time to emails. I try to answer them when I can."

This statement here tells me they have absolutley zero respect for you, and that you are a nuisance, as opposed to the reason they are in business.




Quote:
"On those 2003 figures I show that all of them shipped back in March, April and May of 2003 and I even have tracking numbers of the shipments they were included with. You say those 2003 figures show as not received, where do they show as not received? And when did you first tell us you did not receive figures from 2 years ago?"


If they have the tracking numbers, then get them from KEBco and check the status with the shipping company (most likely UPS).

Also, one of the posts quoted a KEBco email saying that there are hundreds of orders packaged and ready to ship. When are they going out?

mrshiny
06-02-2005, 08:32 AM
Got my eBay package from them yesterday - they can ship that, but not my other stuff they supposedly have?



It's amazing, I gave them an out - just let me know what you have of mine - and still no response! Thankfully, I used American Express, which tends to be more forcefully than some in it's pursuit of disputes.

Anyone reading this who hasn't reversed their charges with Kebco yet?

dindae
06-02-2005, 08:43 AM
I have not as yet but only because I am waiting to see what the BBB can do for me. The 30 day waiting period ends on the 11th so depending on the information I get from them I will see. Only a portion of the figures I purchased were on a credit card the remainder is through my bank. I didn't get the impression that they will be eager to help my I talked to them previously but that was a different situation now that I think about it so who knows. I definately agree that chargebacks are the only way to go since that seems to be the only way to get money out of them.

songwrtr
06-02-2005, 09:04 AM
I haven't yet either, but only due to lack of time to sit and write a coherent letter to my credit card company. I'd attempted to file disputes by phone, but the person I spoke with wasn't understanding the situation. The next two weeks are the last ones during which I'll be seriously overextended (job and other obligations), and the letter will go out (with plenty of backup paperwork) soon thereafter unless KEBco actually fullfill their obligations (all $500+) first. Not that I expect them to after months and months of stonewalling.

jedi-cpa
06-06-2005, 04:19 PM
Nothing has changed. There has still been nothing added to my account as far as Ep III goes...I should have just requested a refund on everything, not just the 2004 stuff...but that's what I get for trying to be an honorable guy.

WesleySr
06-06-2005, 05:33 PM
I have not as yet but only because I am waiting to see what the BBB can do for me. The 30 day waiting period ends on the 11th so depending on the information I get from them I will see. Only a portion of the figures I purchased were on a credit card the remainder is through my bank. I didn't get the impression that they will be eager to help my I talked to them previously but that was a different situation now that I think about it so who knows. I definately agree that chargebacks are the only way to go since that seems to be the only way to get money out of them.
Just to let you know, dindae, I filed my complaint with the BBB on 4/13 and I still have not heard anything from them. I even emailed them on 5/18 to see if they had heard anything and I still have not received a response.

ArtooMetoo
06-06-2005, 05:40 PM
Hey, folks.

Please don't expect anything to come from your BBB complaints. Many of us have already filed, with no results.

Basically, the BBB is a registry of complaints of various businesses. If one was planning on doing business with a company for the first time, it would be a great place to look and see if there were complaints about that company, and how they handled them.

All the BBB can do is forward your complaint to KEBco. And, with recent history as a guide, I would expect that your complaint will simply be ignored.

Get going on contacting your credit card company about getting refunds on your stuff. They're the only people who will be able to do anything substantial for you.

rassmguy
06-06-2005, 06:21 PM
KEBco, you guys are a bunch of scumbags. You should be ashamed of yourselves, ripping people off like this. You're SCUM, guys -- SCUM. If you had ANY conscience whatsoever, you'd start responding to people and making good on your shipments. Yours is the worst company I've ever dealth with, and I hope you hurt as few people as possible when your business goes down in flames. One thing is sure -- neither father nor son has any honor. How pathetic to teach pass such poor ethics down to your children.

rassmguy
06-06-2005, 06:28 PM
Hey -- a guy named "Hide" over at RebelScum posted the following, which I think is very useful:


* * *


More updates:
I file a complaint at www.ftc.gov and got a respond from an agent. Apparently the case has been entered into FTC shared law enforcement data system. I think we are getting somewhere now. I urge every KEBco victim to file their cases here as well. Anyway, here is the response from the agent:

Thank you for your recent letter concerning your complaint.

The Federal Trade Commission's Mail or Telephone Order Rule covers goods you order by mail, telephone, computer, and fax machine. By law, a company should ship your order within the time stated in its ads. If no time is promised, the company should ship your order within 30 days after receiving it. If the company is unable to ship on time, the company must give you the choice of agreeing to the delay or canceling your order and receiving a prompt refund.

Information from your letter has been added to our computerized reporting systems, which is used by the staff to determine actions that will benefit all consumers. As a federal regulatory agency, our role is to identify those companies that consistently violate consumers' rights and then correct those violations through appropriate law enforcement action. Meanwhile, the Attorney General's office in the state where the company is located may be able to assist you.

We appreciate your interest in writing to us.
Sincerely yours,
Consumer Response Center

groe
06-06-2005, 07:26 PM
Hey -- a guy named "Hide" over at RebelScum posted the following, which I think is very useful:

Very nice! I'll be putting my complaint in tonight as well as emailing the attourney general of the state.

Turbowars
06-06-2005, 07:32 PM
Where are you at Kebco? Cat got your tongue? Damn good thing you don't have my $, if you did, well lets not go there.:rolleyes:

TheBigSloppy
06-07-2005, 05:40 PM
THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE SHOULD CHECK THEIR PRIVATE MESSAGES ON SSG (if you haven't done so already):

mrshiny
stillakid
dindae
artoometoo
dr_evazan22
groe
jedi-cpa
songwrtr
wesleysr

Jedi Drew
06-07-2005, 06:28 PM
Hey where am I at? Am I chopped liver? I still haven't heard from Kebco... :confused:

jedi-cpa
06-07-2005, 06:29 PM
Private messages?

WHOA!!!! There are private messages...oooopps. I had no idea!!! Well, I apologize to anyone I didn't reply to in the past...I had no idea that feature existed.

dr_evazan22
06-07-2005, 10:56 PM
This is another Private Message for jedi-cpa, all others please avert your eyes....

Message content:

LOL!

OK, everyone can look again.

As for TBS's PM... I only half believe what was said. First off, there should be nothing confidential about it. It should be information that is openely shared with anyone doing business with, or considering doing business with, KEBco. KEBco seems to have customers that are disputing charges, and receipt of orders, from as far back as 2003. KEBco says they have proof that these orders were shipped and received. Again I say, produce the UPS tracking numbers. Then there is a claim that the credit card processor, not KEBco, made charges to cust accts. I have 2 problems here: One is cust acct status being changed from, well, whatever it says when the first half of the charge is applied, to 'pending' or 'completed'. The other problem is that KEBco wouldn't 'ship' product that wasn't fully paid for. So again, compare your credit card statements with what KEBco says they shipped, and get the UPS tracking numbers.

KEBco says they are having big problems with getting product. What? Don't you purchase from Hasbro? Just like EE, Brians Toys, and others? Are you saying Hasbro isn't making enough to fulfill your needs? Looking between the lines, it sounds like your saying you are having cash flow problems and are only able to get a limited amount of product; that you'd maybe like to be able to fulfill all your orders, but now need to purchase from other secondary stores just to fulfill existing orders, costing you more money. Just bite the bullet and inform your customers that you are unable to fulfill all orders, offer the appropriate refunds, and offer those affected customers something to try to keep them as your customers - a limited discount, free mailing, something. Lastly, time frames - when will you have the chargeback issues dealt with and be able to send merchandise out again? Give us a time frame!

Ya know? After writing all that up, I'm more inclined to think its a bunch of lies with a few kernels of truth mixed in.

mrshiny
06-08-2005, 01:29 AM
I saw nothing in the PM that Kebco hasn;t already said again and again.

OK - can everyone here soundoff about what actual charges you have disputed? Just tell us the date range of the charges and the date you contested them. For example, around May 20, I began contesting charges back to December 2004 (as far as I could go - they probably owe me more, but that was the limit).

Now, Kebco claims they cannot ship product because of these "chargebacks." So why couldn't they ship my stuff when my money was just sitting in the bank? UPS does take cash.

If I'm not mistaken, manufacturers usually only bill their distributors once product has shipped. So all that stuff Kebco "couldn't" get, they had 50% - 100% of our money for, yet they still have paid out 0% for it. In short, Hasbro not shipping would IMPROVE their cash flow (at the customer's expense).

As pointed out, if they were a good customer who paid their bills, it's unlikely Hasbro would short them and not other online retailers.

They seem to be mystified that these credit card disputes happened. They see no cause for them on their end. Like charging us in full for product they did not have and then not communicating AT ALL?

Still, there is no promised Kebco newsletter.

They claim people started disputing charges this April for charges placed in 2003. Chime in if your credit card company lets you dispute that far back. If it does, then let me know where to sign up! There may be ones out there, but none that I've dealt with.

You see, I believe this is how it works. They charge your card. In the case of Visa/Mastercard, a deposit is made relatively soon in their bank account. In the case of American Express, about a month after the charge. A customer disputes a charge. Now because there are so many of these, the company who does their processing says "Time out" and fairly stops processing until things get sorted out. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the MONEY IS STILL IN THE BANK. Until the dispute is confirmed, the money stays where it is. If there is not enough money in the bank to cover it when the dispute is confirmed, then they owe the credit card company who can pursue that debt.

So while this could legitimately stop them from charging for new things, it would not stop them from simply taking the money from things they never will have that we've paid for, applying it to our accounts and shipping us this vast cache of product they are just sitting on now.

Take my case - the day they go my letter, they could have said, "Hhmm, best to avoid another expensive chargeback. Lets get him all we can" and shipped product to me.

Why don't they do that? Because they spent all the money (just a theory). They spent the money I paid for preview figures and OTC figures in full. They even spent my 50% deposits. They have no cash to pay UPS, so they need to charge and their cc processor won't let them.

They could have stopped all of this had they just answered the first person who asked about his/her product.

Meanwhile, they are taking in cash in their Paypal account via their eBay store. Oh they won't answer questions about your product. That's another division. Yup, but same corporation, so that doesn't fly. It's just another way of saying, "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT OUR CUSTOMERS. THEY ARE A BURDEN. WE WANT OUR MONEY."

I was so willing to give these guys a chance, but if they are not filing for bankruptcy, then why do they not have enough cash on hand to ship product?

I challenge them right here. Prove to me that you aren't going out of business by shipping to your biggest/oldest 3 customers.

And more than this, the thing that bugs me is that they admit that they could not provide "one of every figure," yet they never even apologize that they let us down. I love the fact that they are having trouble getting them from secondary sources. Is there any figure that anyone is missing that isn't available online or on eBay? Maybe for a lot more than you paid, but it is there if they were interested in satisfying their promise.

And why the heck was I NEVER told I wouldn't get figures they charged me 100% for? That was the first domino in this death spiral.

Does anyone out there actually have time to talk to a lawyer? Can people who would join in a lawsuit please sound off?

dr_evazan22
06-08-2005, 04:33 AM
Information from your letter has been added to our computerized reporting systems, which is used by the staff to determine actions that will benefit all consumers. As a federal regulatory agency, our role is to identify those companies that consistently violate consumers' rights and then correct those violations through appropriate law enforcement action. Meanwhile, the Attorney General's office in the state where the company is located may be able to assist you.


While some credit card companies may not let you dispute charges further back then six months, I think anoth route to try would be the GA Attorney General, and / or the FTC as previously posted.



Fair Business Practices Act

The “Fair Business Practices Act of 1975,” O.C.G.A. Section 10-1-390 et seq., is the primary consumer protection law of Georgia and is enforced by the Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs. The Act regulates unfair or deceptive practices in consumer transactions (that is, transactions for personal, family or household purposes.) The Act also regulates matt ers such as health spa memberships, “going out of business” sales, telemarketing, multilevel marketing opportunities, campground memberships and certain promotional activities. The Act authorizes private citizens to sue for violations in certain circumstances.

Federal Trade Commission

The FTC is the federal agency charged with enforcing federal consumer protection laws that regulate the credit industry, and prevent fraud, deception and unfair business practices, including telemarketing fraud, Internet scams or price-fixing schemes. The FTC also enforces federal antitrust laws. For more information, click on http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/consumer.htm.

Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs

The Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs is the state’s consumer protection agency. It enforces the Fair Business Practices Act of 1975 and many other state consumer protection laws. You can contact them by phone at 404.651.8600 (toll-free at 800.869.1123), on the web at www2.state.ga.us/gaoca, or by mail at 2 Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive, East Tower Suite 356, Atlanta Georgia 30334.

stillakid
06-08-2005, 09:03 AM
Because the problems I'm having were technically 3 different issues, my card company opened three different disputes, none of which were "chargebacks."

The oldest dispute, regarding the unshipped but charged for OTC stuff from December (1/2 billed in June, the rest billed in December) fell under the category of "Merchandise Not Received." They owe me $99.01 for 14 OTC figures and one Galactic Heroes set that I have been billed for in full plus shipping that never arrived at my door.

A later dispute from earler this year is for the ROTS figures that were ordered and billed for twice. They owe me $115.86 in precharges for that f'up.

And the last was to dispute the placement of items on my account that were never authorized (I only authorized 3 3/4" figures...they preordered those new large goofy figures).


Those are just the tangible money issues that I have with them. Beyond that, I'm leaving the club because I don't care for the policy of "if we cant' find it, we'll just give you a refund." Well, that isn't what was promised. The whole point of paying the premium was to guarantee that I'd get at least one of every figure, hard to find or not. They failed in that regard twice.

Another reason is that they weren't ordering everything I asked for. The second wave of Clone Wars Animated weren't exclusive to anyone so therefore they should have shown up on my account. KEBco dropped the ball on that one.

And probably most importantly, the severe lack of communication regarding any of this for me and anyone else. A business can't expect to retain the trust from its customer base if it refuses to communicate at all. If the problems as described by KEBco are genuine, then at least give me the fair chance to back out of my orders if it is going to take 6+ months for delivery. That time period is outrageous. My refund for the OTC stuff should have been immediate when they knew that there wasn't enough product and my other requests should have been addressed by now. I don't believe for a second that dealing with these "improper" chargebacks from other people takes every waking minute from everyone at KEBco. From what I can tell, they only have one phone and it doesn't have busy signal, so nobody is using is to talk to their creditors all day long. The Ebay store is alive and well, so there is someone there not dealing with the chargebacks issues. So unless everyone else is dead, there is no excuse for not answering the phone, our emails, or our certified letters.

mrshiny
06-09-2005, 10:52 AM
What's worse, per their own policy, the OTC figures should have never gone into Pending (and hence charged 100%) until they were physically allocated to my account.

rassmguy
06-09-2005, 07:00 PM
I saw nothing in the PM that Kebco hasn;t already said again and again.


Now I'm very curious as to what the PM said.

Clonetrooper630
06-09-2005, 09:48 PM
Wow I've been reading this thread since it stared and it went from bad to worst i hope all of you get your money back.KEBco sucks

TheBigSloppy
06-11-2005, 11:28 PM
I want to commend all of those who have spoken with such eloquence and poignance about Kebco's state of affairs. I am not certain whether or not I will see a single dollar that Kebco has on loan from me - but I feel so much better knowing that there are others like me who have also been afflicted by Kebco's miserably conducted business. And judging by the remarkable similarities amongst all of these anonymous, faceless Kebco customers here on SSG and abroad, I would wager that more than 20 percent of what is written online about Kebco is true.

FUNNY STORY ...well, kinda ...
I received a letter from my electric company (PEPCO) regarding a notice of dishonored payment. Turns out that cultural differences, mainly one in particular - foreigners understanding bastardized American English accents - is the reason I received this letter. You see, Citibank moved all of their call center operations to India. And why am I mentioning this, you ask? Because many weeks ago I phoned a complaint about KEBCO with Citibank, and the Indian representative put a stop on all payments to ...ready for this ...PEPCO, my utilities company ...and NOT KEBco. HAH!

So, Kebco still took another payment, $89.88 on June 3, and my electric company is denied payment. I was under the impression (from Ken's email) that they were paralyzed financially and could not CHARGE nor REFUND because of the situation with their credit card processor.

Needless to say, I gave Citibank an earful. I am not sure if they understood me - with my bastardized American English and all - but I have now reversed the faux pas.

KEN ...or SCOTT ...if you are reading this ...You will no longer be able to freely take money from my account. I now have a new account number. Also, I am challenging every ALLOWABLE charge within the past 90 days. Sure, you can smile (for now) because you still have approximately $700-800 of my money sitting somewhere in your accounts; and this doesn't include the nearly $350 I will be credited after Citibank receives my dispute regarding three of the four charges since March.

People ...this cannot be emphasized enough ...check with your credit card, banking companies. I have up to 90 days to dispute any erroneous, unauthorized charges - ONLY 90 days. You may or may not have that same window of opportunity.

Unfortunately, I have charges dating back to Jan. 2004.

My only recourse in receiving a refund is to seek legal action. So Ken ...or Scott ...look forward to receiving a letter of cancellation regarding my account along with a summons. But heck, summertime is the season for tourism in Washington, D.C. You wouldn't mind visiting D.C.? See the sights: White House, Capitol, Washington Monument, Supreme Court ...Small Claims Court.

I wish you all well.

On another note, WHY THE HECK ARE WE PAYING $7.49 per FIGURE?

TheBigSloppy
06-11-2005, 11:52 PM
Now I'm very curious as to what the PM said.


RASSMGUY ...

I tried sending that message to you as well, but your account does not accept private messages. You may want to activate that feature.

rassmguy
06-13-2005, 12:29 AM
I want to commend all of those who have spoken with such eloquence and poignance about Kebco's state of affairs. I am not certain whether or not I will see a single dollar that Kebco has on loan from me - but I feel so much better knowing that there are others like me who have also been afflicted by Kebco's miserably conducted business. And judging by the remarkable similarities amongst all of these anonymous, faceless Kebco customers here on SSG and abroad, I would wager that more than 20 percent of what is written online about Kebco is true.



More than 20%? Why so low? That means you think 80% is false. Why? I'm fairly sure that most of what's been said about them online is true. In fact, I have yet to read a single statement about what they're doing that I suspect to be a lie.

rassmguy
06-13-2005, 12:31 AM
RASSMGUY ...
I tried sending that message to you as well, but your account does not accept private messages. You may want to activate that feature.

Oh, sorry! I didn't know it was off. I'll activate it now. Thanks for letting me know!

jedi-cpa
06-13-2005, 09:32 AM
Current News 05/01/05
EP3 Club Member Pre-Orders and Update

Currently we are continuing to ship EP3 product. We received a large shipment of product today and in the next 7 to 10 days we will be shipping out about 10,000 EP3 basic figures to current Club Members. We will continue to receive EP3 product for the next several months and will fill current Pre-Orders as quickly as possible.

We do appreciate your business...KEBco Toys

45 days later and NOTHING has been added to my account. Jokers.

rassmguy
06-13-2005, 09:20 PM
RASSMGUY ...

I tried sending that message to you as well, but your account does not accept private messages. You may want to activate that feature.


Thanks very much, Sloppy, for the private message. He's lying to you, of course, but it was interesting to read, nonetheless. :)

jedi-cpa
06-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Still nothing added...this stinks.

stillakid
06-15-2005, 02:36 PM
Still nothing added...this stinks.

It's not gonna happen...ever. I'm still dealing with the credit card company on this, but I've all but written off getting my OTC money back or any of the preordered ROTS figures. I'm mighty glad now that I went ahead and bought everything at retail. KEBco is dead to me! :dead: :mad:

dindae
06-15-2005, 04:47 PM
I have decided to go a different route. If I don't get a credit by next Friday I will be filing at small claims court. I am done screwing around with them.

ArtooMetoo
06-15-2005, 04:52 PM
dindae,

I don't know anything about what it takes to file a case in small claims court, but I have an issue with KEBco that is separate from my purchases which I am thinking about filing in small claims court. Would you be so kind as to help me (and other here in this forum, I'm sure) out by letting us know what's involved in filing a case?

ArtooMetoo
06-15-2005, 04:57 PM
I have finally had very good luck with my claim through my credit card company. They've issued over $500 of refunds to my account.

What finally made my claim go forward was preparing a document which matched up every single missing figure to a specific charge to my account (a process which took several hours on my part, by the way). It also took about an hour and a half on the phone with the credit card company going over specific charges, answering numerous questions, and probing KEBco's site for policy and shipping info.

Get your records together, get in touch with your credit card company, and get your money back!

[[ Now that I've given up on KEBco's figure club, I'm looking for a good online resource for getting figures. Any suggestions for a site which charges the same as, or close to, retail? Thanks in advance! ]]

dindae
06-15-2005, 05:19 PM
The process and fees will vary from state to state. I haven't gotten the paperwork yet but I will post what the expenses are when I know. I have been told it should be around $60 but you should be able to get that back in the settlement.

ArtooMetoo
06-15-2005, 05:29 PM
I've just started to read up on this myself. I am assuming that claims must be filed in the home state of the defendant (in this case Georgia). I've learned that small claims is called "Magistrate Court" in Georgia.

So, here's my biggest concern: Assuming I file a claim in Magistrate Court, do I need to fly 3000 miles to appear in court just to get back my $1500? Ouch! That's hardly gonna be worth the trouble!

groe
06-15-2005, 07:48 PM
I posted this link a long time ago on the thread. Should give you alot of the info you're looking for about Small Claims Court in every state.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_claim_01.htm

I'm also going this route. I've managed to get about a third of what they owe me through charge backs and will get the rest this way. Keep after them. Don't let someone steal from you.

Greg

Jedi Drew
06-15-2005, 08:13 PM
I may have asked this before but how do you go about doing a charge back? I need to get my $198.00 back from these THIEVES!!!!! Thanks, for any help...

dindae
06-15-2005, 08:21 PM
Talk to the company that issued the card that you used to purchase from kebco. Credit cards are usually more easy going than bank about chargebacks but the main issue will be the length of time they will let you go back.

TheBigSloppy
06-16-2005, 09:06 AM
I've just started to read up on this myself. I am assuming that claims must be filed in the home state of the defendant (in this case Georgia). I've learned that small claims is called "Magistrate Court" in Georgia.

So, here's my biggest concern: Assuming I file a claim in Magistrate Court, do I need to fly 3000 miles to appear in court just to get back my $1500? Ouch! That's hardly gonna be worth the trouble!

I am 99.8% certain that a Kebco agent would have to represent themselves in the court of law in which the claim /case was filed.

ArtooMetoo
06-16-2005, 10:36 AM
I am 99.8% certain that a Kebco agent would have to represent themselves in the court of law in which the claim /case was filed.

Right, so the question is: Can I file a claim in my home state of Washington? Or do I need to file it in the state where the "transaction" took place?

I'll be working on finding out this answer, but if anyone learns it before I do, please post.

TheBigSloppy
06-16-2005, 11:07 AM
Right, so the question is: Can I file a claim in my home state of Washington? Or do I need to file it in the state where the "transaction" took place?

I'll be working on finding out this answer, but if anyone learns it before I do, please post.

Because this is interstate commerce, then you can file in your home state.

However, please verify this with your local magistrate.

Vortex
06-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Well has anyone gotten anything resolved since last time KEBco chimmed in?

I still question the response they gave last month and the true business practice of this company. The phone lines go unanswered or are forever busy(off the hook) and they don't respond to ANY questions or emails and they don't seem to have cleaned up their shoddy act.

Well if some one does put a huge claim together...I'd be intersted.

jedi-cpa
06-22-2005, 09:15 AM
I just sent another e-mail...nothing has been added to my account since early april.

I should have just asked for a refund on the ep III stuff too, but no...tried to be nice and this is how I get treated.

rassmguy
06-22-2005, 10:15 AM
I just sent another e-mail...nothing has been added to my account since early april. I should have just asked for a refund on the ep III stuff too, but no...tried to be nice and this is how I get treated.

Screw being nice at this point, my friend -- clearly, they're in the process of taking everyone's money without delivering goods, or else people would have gotten SOME sort of answer out of them by now. They're crooks, and the sooner everyone takes efforts to get all their money back, the better. I don't think I've ever seen a clearer indicator of impending bankruptcy and a "let's-cut-our-losses-as-much-as-we-can-by-keeping-our-customers'-money" approach.

TheBigSloppy
06-23-2005, 01:26 AM
Hey KEBCO ...please elaborate on this. You evidently are reading these posts. I noticed that you credited ...err, refunded ...approximately $37 to my bank account last week. Why? Did I email you and request this refund?

Answer: NO. I did not contact you. For I have only aired my dirty laundry here ...because you fail to answer your phones or email.

AND SO NOW I HAVE A CREDIT. Applied June 13 or so. Coincidentally, this refund appeared immediately after my June 11 post - the post in which I state that I am DISPUTING certain charges from the past 90 days. The amount you refunded is one of those disputed amounts.

So let me get this straight. You refund me that $37 amount; in the meantime I have disputed that charge. What advantage do you get by doing this? Eh? Are you going to say another OoEF member is fraudulently trying to file a chargeback?

Too bad you didn't refund me the the whopping $244 charge from March. You had to pick the lowest amount (which doesn't surprise me).

rassmguy
06-23-2005, 07:16 AM
Hey KEBCO ...please elaborate on this. You evidently are reading these posts. I noticed that you credited ...err, refunded ...approximately $37 to my bank account last week. Why? Did I email you and request this refund?

Answer: NO. I did not contact you. For I have only aired my dirty laundry here ...because you fail to answer your phones or email.

AND SO NOW I HAVE A CREDIT. Applied June 13 or so. Coincidentally, this refund appeared immediately after my June 11 post - the post in which I state that I am DISPUTING certain charges from the past 90 days. The amount you refunded is one of those disputed amounts.

So let me get this straight. You refund me that $37 amount; in the meantime I have disputed that charge. What advantage do you get by doing this? Eh? Are you going to say another OoEF member is fraudulently trying to file a chargeback?

Too bad you didn't refund me the the whopping $244 charge from March. You had to pick the lowest amount (which doesn't surprise me).



Take 'em to Small Claims Court for the rest!

jedi-cpa
06-23-2005, 04:52 PM
BBB stats re: kebco...

All should know this especially if you are thinking of doing business with them.


BBB Reliability Report



Kebco Toys
49 Newnan South Industrial Drive
Newnan, GA 30263


General Information

Phone Number: (678) 423-3340
BBB Membership: This company is not a member

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.


Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaint(s).

When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB file was opened in October of 2004: 24
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 24


Complaints Concerned
Sales Issues: 6
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 2; Company made good faith effort to Resolve:
1; Company did not respond: 3

Delivery Issues: 8
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 1; Unresolved: 1; Company did not respond: 6

Refund or Exchange Issues: 4
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 2; Company did not respond: 2

Customer Service Issues: 3
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 3

Credit or Billing Issues: 3
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 3


Additional Information

Additional Doing-Business-As Names: Kebco
Kebco Toy Emporium
Additional Phone Numbers: 678-423-3359 - 2
877-695-3226 - 3

Report as of 06/23/2005
Copyright 2005 Better Business Bureau

Kidhuman
06-23-2005, 06:01 PM
Well, I would like to see hjow many of those complaints have been made in the last 6 months or even two.

TheBigSloppy
06-23-2005, 06:24 PM
Well, I would like to see hjow many of those complaints have been made in the last 6 months or even two.

I posted this May 1, 2005:

http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?p=394228#post394228

Kidhuman
06-23-2005, 06:34 PM
Wow five in 12 months that day, now 24, not good for you KEBco.

marlymarsh
06-23-2005, 07:11 PM
Wow five in 12 months that day, now 24, not good for you KEBco.
I've spent hours this week reading this entire thread! I cannot believe that Kebco has been so neglectful, but after seeing nearly three months pass from ROTS toy release day and not receiving one figure, I guess it is time I, too, get my head out of the sand. I am so grateful that some idiot tried to steal my credit info on ebay last month. Because of that, I destroyed a credit card number that was also on Kebco's automatic billing list [ side note: shouldn't a good on line business allow you to automatically change your billing info with the use of a password, etc..?]. Kebco cannot charge me anymore, and I'd be a fool to give them a new billing number. I am out about 40-50 figus, mostly ROTS, but many more of the same backorders you guys mention.

I know that I will never see these figures. I know that to continue my collection, I will have to pay premium prices. I also know now, that it is impossible for me to do this. How sad that is, and it frankly makes me lost interest. Yes, I'm a completist, but not hardcore. Just want the carded figures. No sickness here.

Some comments to you guys: while it is good that folks are taking a stand with chargebacks, BBB complaints, etc, how much good is that doing? Have the complaints, the barrage of emails, etc... worked against you in any manner? By this, I mean, with all the inquiries, do you think the small staff at Kebco has been forced to deal with the BS and not focus on getting orders out? (I know, no one is getting anything.) Could Kebco be holding on to a lot of packages because folks want them to save sending them out until they are bigger (ie. 12 figs or more)? Who really has any proof Kebco is out to file Bankruptcy? Hey don't get me wrong, I am not some secret Kebco person trying to fight their fight, but just posing questions here? No too sure I'd want to accuse Kebco of all this bad stuff, if it could ever be considered libelous.

Yes, their customer service is non existent, but somehow they keep charging and charging for things. Someone has go to find a better way to reach them. There has got to be a way to actually go to their store and see them face to face. There has got to be someone out there who actually knows how many club members actually exist. (I am just over # 100, since March 2002). The thread has helped me out immensely, but you guys are such a small percentage of their customers! There are probably hundreds out there who have no clue this SSG site exists, much less this forum. Think how in the dark they must be. I look forward to more new and pro-active discussion.

dindae
06-23-2005, 08:50 PM
Welcome to the boards marlymarsh. I'm glad we could help you realize the depth of problems at Kebco. As far as you questions no one has any proof that Kebco is going uder it is mere speculation based on how the company has gone downhill. The BBB complaints really don't do anything which was a disappointment to me. I know the company I work for treats these complaint like we were going to be drawn and quartered if the aren't handled quickly and generously. The chargeback do work if you haven't passed the deadline like me. I'm know there are counter productive sides to what we are doing but the are the measures we are forced to take. Sending 300 emails doesn't help them answer their email faster but if they would have answered the first one there wouldn't have been a second. We have battered the phone down to make it continuously busy but if you could get through via email then the phone wouldn't be as busy. Doing a large amount of chargeback (whether they are legitimate or not) has/will cause their processing company to limit their transactions until the chargebacks are cleared up but they wouldn't have been needed if they would have responded to phone or email. And yet everytime they anounce they are having problems it's Hasbro's fault not filling orders, it's customer's doing chargebacks, etc. It's just sad.

jedi-cpa
06-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Status page is down...what does this mean?

I dunno but this always makes me nervous...

Has ANYONE received a shipment since the release of Ep III?

Vortex
06-27-2005, 03:58 PM
Don't we have a few members from GA that we could sweet talk into making a trip to said address and giving us a full report. Get names 1st hand info?

It won't do us much good, but maybe they could walk in with our names and emails along with order numbers and be present while they actually do something about it with a living person there.

Just a thought.

rassmguy
06-27-2005, 10:01 PM
Don't we have a few members from GA that we could sweet talk into making a trip to said address and giving us a full report. Get names 1st hand info?

It won't do us much good, but maybe they could walk in with our names and emails along with order numbers and be present while they actually do something about it with a living person there.

Just a thought.


Or they could just bring some bats.

jedi-cpa
06-27-2005, 10:28 PM
Or they could just bring some bats.

I don't see how an infestation of winged rodents will help our situation...

Vortex
06-27-2005, 10:40 PM
Hey, yo...a little mob justice just might influence dems bumbs to rectify dis here sit-ce-ation, ya know what I'm saying...(slap bat in hands...not the winged ones mind you)

TheBigSloppy
06-28-2005, 12:16 AM
Status page is down...what does this mean?

I dunno but this always makes me nervous...

Has ANYONE received a shipment since the release of Ep III?

I received a shipment at the beginning of May. The box included:

2 Red Royal Guards
2 Padme
2 Battle Droids
2 Agen Kolar
2 Mon Mothma
2 Kit Fisto

mrshiny
06-28-2005, 06:53 AM
Well, American Express just sent me the first letter stating that my requested credit was valid (they handle each credit seperately). I expect the rest will follow as I don't even think KebCo is bothering to dispute them anymore. It seems all they are doing is running their eBay shop. Status page is still down.

I don't know if they are going under, but I can say without a doubt they should be if they think this is a way to run a business.

mrshiny
06-29-2005, 10:38 AM
Started getting a few calls from American Express. It seems all Kebco is doing is providing proof of orders, not proof of delivery. Of course I'm not disputing that I ordered it, just that I haven't received it! And conveniently, the status page is still down (of course I printed off everything before hand).

So at least one dispute has been closed in my favor, and the others I was called about should be soon.

TheBigSloppy
06-29-2005, 11:10 AM
Citibank made the $300+ adjustment to my account (in my favor) last Friday.

I hope everyone printed out their online invoices so that they can keep track of what was billed for and never received.

Of course, you can easily refer to your credit card or banking statements to see if, when and how much Kebco charged you.

AND FOR THOSE KEEPING SCORE ...
Better Business Bureau complaints have now risen to ............31.


Good luck all.

-t

rassmguy
06-29-2005, 07:00 PM
Citibank made the $300+ adjustment to my account (in my favor) last Friday.
I hope everyone printed out their online invoices so that they can keep track of what was billed for and never received.
Of course, you can easily refer to your credit card or banking statements to see if, when and how much Kebco charged you.
AND FOR THOSE KEEPING SCORE ...
Better Business Bureau complaints have now risen to ............31.
Good luck all.
-t


What amazes me is that they had the gall to act as if they weren't the problem, but rather a small group of people making trouble for them. They're thieves, no doubt about it.

jedi-cpa
06-30-2005, 10:38 AM
Still nothing!!!! The status page is still down.

What a joke.

No way to run a business.

jedi-cpa
07-06-2005, 03:31 PM
HEY KEBCO!!!!!

How much longer will your status page be down? Is this so folks can't print how much undelivered product they have to dispute charges?

Come on now...get it together...post when the status page will be up, post when you are shipping my and everyone elses 44 basic figs...preview figs and 8 deluxe figs (and whatever else you haven't shippedd to people) and give credits to the people who have not received their 04 product...you know they aren't getting it...

Come on people...be a little more responsible and get this stuff done will ya!?!?!?!?!

Vortex
07-06-2005, 03:36 PM
I'm still ticked off at the fact that they don't even bother to respond to anything...

I can't fight the early charges and I can't get my money back. I tried to contact them in every way. Their two phone numbers, various e-mails, and I even pestered their ebay sales and contacted the seller...and I have yet to see or hear anything and I know I won't. I wonder when the last time they check into SSG was...

The only thing that would wake these schmucks and louses up is a class action lawsuit by all of us here.

TheBigSloppy
07-06-2005, 04:14 PM
I'm still ticked off at the fact that they don't even bother to respond to anything...

I can't fight the early charges and I can't get my money back. I tried to contact them in every way. Their two phone numbers, various e-mails, and I even pestered their ebay sales and contacted the seller...and I have yet to see or hear anything and I know I won't. I wonder when the last time they check into SSG was...

The only thing that would wake these schmucks and louses up is a class action lawsuit by all of us here.

I have notified Kebco and demaned a refund for all money on deposit dating back to Jan. 2004. If I do not receive payment by July 14 via money order or cashier's check I plan to immediately file suit in D.C. Small Claims court.

No word from Ken. But that is to be expected.

Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick ...

Vortex
07-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Good luck, if it goes bigger, you have a small army behind you if you want to ram it to them.

dindae
07-06-2005, 05:10 PM
I was going to file last friday but ran out of cash to do it. So the plan is to do it this friday. Does anyone know if they are incorporated, if Ken owns it, or if it is a partnership between Ken and Scott? I had a number to call to find out and misplaced it so I thought maybe someone here may know.

Jedi Drew
07-06-2005, 07:06 PM
Good luck, if it goes bigger, you have a small army behind you if you want to ram it to them.

I'm ALL in (even that I don't play Texas Hold'em) to get everyones money back with interest.... :greedy: Then put these crooks, thieves, ect in jail. Keep the update going these TOOLS still owe me a little over $200.00. :frus: :frus:

jediddy
07-06-2005, 11:19 PM
I haven't posted on this site in years and years, but I happened upon this thread, intending to make one myself, and was surprised to see how many other people have been duped by Kebco. They owe me about 80 bucks, blah blah blah they're doing the same thing to everyone. Here's one more supporter for this army here.

stillakid
07-07-2005, 11:16 PM
It's looking like Capital One is going to take care of all my old disputes with KEBco. And I just added the undelivered ROTS figures to my official complaint, so hopefully I'll see that money credited back as well.

Thankfully, I've managed to keep up with the 2005 toys via retail, other internet sites, and gracious SSG collectors (thanks guys! :) ) so I don't feel bad completely writing KEBco off at this point. They're history. Even if somehow they did manage to deliver everything promised and issue refunds, their reputation is permanently damaged. KEBco may not be able to get you the toys you want, but at least your lawnmower will run. :ermm:

Vortex
07-08-2005, 03:53 PM
How did you get your CC to deal with the older issues?

stillakid
07-08-2005, 04:23 PM
How did you get your CC to deal with the older issues?

They listened to my problems and divided them up into three separate complaints.

The OTC items and one Galactic Heroes item were listed as "Merchandise Not Received." I was given credit back for that. The hard part was tracking down the precise amounts that were billed. As it turns out, I hadn't even noticed at first that in addition to being billed the initial deposit of 50% in June, they had also billed the remainder plus shipping in December.

The next problem was listed as "Not as Described" in regard to items that were ordered twice and billed for. KEBco put in an initial pre-order for ROTS items using only the numbers, but as names came in, they put those on my order as well even though they had already been ordered with only the number.

Those two things required that I send in extensive documentation and such. The third dispute, which I can't recall right now, they took care of right away. I think it had something to do with the ROTS stuff this year.

And now I'm trying to add the remaining undelivered ROTS items from 2005 that were ordered and at last check, were PENDING. I want my money back from that too. I was willing to give them a chance, but it is clear that KEBco is not going to come through. And at this point, I don't think I'd be able to return the merchandise I bought at retail as a backup in case KEBco failed to deliver. They had the chance to settle all of this as promised, but didn't.

marlymarsh
07-10-2005, 05:07 PM
How did you get your CC to deal with the older issues?
Some recent thoughts:
1) Has anyone been able to go to their store in person? Perhaps we need to try to find a collector or member in their city. Any suggestions?
2) I hope any one in the OoEFClub has cancelled their credit card on file with Kebco - I mean cancelled it and gotten a new credit card number. While quite inconvenient to the card holder, Kebco can still automatically bill you, like they tried with me. Luckily, my card was rejected because the number changed...everyone who says they have cancelled orders and not heard back from them cannont actualy prove that if they send a credit cancellation email request to Kebco that it will actually be read, heck, can anyone name anything done by them in a timely manner?
3)Anyone want to comment on the ease or difficulty of acquiring figures released in the last 12 months - one's we relied on Kebco to send, but now ones we have to get ourselves? This whole ordeal has left many of us (me, and others I'm sure) very upset that once complete collections are in disarray. Thanks.

jedi-cpa
07-14-2005, 04:17 PM
Status page still down...

Hey KEBCO this stinks!!!!!!!!!!

Vortex
07-14-2005, 04:19 PM
I think the order page will never be back up and running. If their other aspects of their business are any indication.

jedi-cpa
07-18-2005, 01:58 PM
I'm beginning to think you might be right!

ArtooMetoo
07-19-2005, 03:22 PM
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been having a hell of a time keeping up with all the current figures now that KEBco is no longer an option.

I'm looking for feedback from my fellow former One-of-Every-Figure Club members regarding a reliable online source for figures. The two highest criteria for me are:

1) Reasonable Prices. I'm not looking to compete with Wal-Mart pricing, just at- or near-retail.

2) Up to Date. By this I mean that the merchant is able to stock all the newest figures close to the same time they show up at retail.

What are all you guys doing for figs now that OoEF is defunct?

Vortex
07-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Hasbro shop, and friends. I've seen and found most of the waves so far and I had to go through amazon to get the tarkin wave. The melted anakin wave a friend snagged for me. The figs are plentiful and you shouldn't have any trouble. There's plenty of places selling Ep. III figs just surf around and some one will always have a deal.

stillakid
07-19-2005, 10:04 PM
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been having a hell of a time keeping up with all the current figures now that KEBco is no longer an option.

See the link in my sig line. I'm trying my best to keep an accurate list going now that I can depend on KEBco to do it for me. :ermm:

But I now rely on retail, the internet and friends to keep my wallet empty. :greedy:

Turbowars
07-21-2005, 10:41 PM
Anyone think about dropping off a Molatav cocktail to Kebcos warehouse? Now that I brought that up, I wonder if Kebco would do it to themselves? I mean they are in trouble and sometimes a fire is an easy way out for losers like them.:evil: :dev:

Fluke Skywalker
07-22-2005, 03:54 AM
I was just doing some random ebay search recently and came across a seller with the user ID... kebcotoys! I Assume it's the same people. Anyway, they are still quite active, with more than 900 transactions in the past month alone. And their ebay store is up and running. :confused:

jedi-cpa
07-22-2005, 01:43 PM
That many in the past month? Boy that ****es me off.

jedi-cpa
07-22-2005, 02:28 PM
I can't help but think that the status page is down to keep us from complaining and documenting what is still open and pending.

Can't quantify demands for refunds without being able to print the pages.

Luckily mine are already printed.

I am officially sending another certified letter requesting a refund for all the Episode III stuff. I told them I'd buy what I committed to, but with no contact, no status page and no ringing just a busy signal. I can't help but think we are purposefully being kept in the dark.

So, I will officially be requesting a refund for the 44 basic 8 deluxe and 4 preview figures.

Turbowars
07-22-2005, 05:57 PM
The way they are handling things, I doubt they would even except a certified letter.

Jedi Drew
07-26-2005, 08:41 PM
I printed all my pages and recepits before these "jerk offs" made away with my cash. Ever hear of documentation KEBCO???

TheBigSloppy
07-26-2005, 11:50 PM
Nice to see that KEBCO still has time to read our posts. Last visit was on July 11, 2005.

http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/member.php?u=2644

jedi-cpa
07-27-2005, 02:07 PM
Coming Soon - A new look for our status page - With our new status page, you will be able to track the status of your order from the point the order is placed all the way through the payment cycle and complete to the delivery at your door.

Check Your Order Status
Our status page is being completely re-designed. Stay tuned for all the updates.

I think they've missed the point. The status page isn't the problem...it's the actual STATUS!!!!

rassmguy
07-27-2005, 07:13 PM
I think they've missed the point. The status page isn't the problem...it's the actual STATUS!!!!


Exactly. The folks at KEBco are criminals, pure and simple, and the more people get the word out, the fewer fans get duped by them.

jedi-cpa
08-08-2005, 09:33 AM
still nothing

mrshiny
08-10-2005, 11:47 PM
OK, well American Express processed all my claims against Kebco. Apparently, all they gave them was prrof of order. Yes, I admit I ordered it, but I never got it!

After I gave up on Kebco in May, I ordered some stuff from OMGCNFO. They charged m,e (used my debit card too - d'oh!) but still nothing. Got one response that some of the figs were non-mint - but now nothing.

At least Entertainment Earth has been good so far!

rassmguy
08-11-2005, 12:00 AM
OK, well American Express processed all my claims against Kebco. Apparently, all they gave them was prrof of order. Yes, I admit I ordered it, but I never got it!

After I gave up on Kebco in May, I ordered some stuff from OMGCNFO. They charged m,e (used my debit card too - d'oh!) but still nothing. Got one response that some of the figs were non-mint - but now nothing.

At least Entertainment Earth has been good so far!



This is insane. With all these companies screwing over fans, it's sad that Lucasfilm or Hasbro hasn't done something about it. The fact that Kebco is still receiving any stock from Hasbro is a crime.

Kidhuman
08-11-2005, 01:32 AM
OMGCNFO too? Thats insane.

2-1B
08-11-2005, 01:55 AM
We should go around and burn all these ****er's warehouses to the ground after we raid them for whatever product they have and distribute it to those who got ripped off by them. :evil:

jjreason
08-11-2005, 02:13 AM
All Hail Caesar Hood and his band of Merry Pirates! :D

2-1B
08-11-2005, 02:47 AM
:Pirate: :Pirate: :Pirate:

I sent them a PM a little while ago, I wouldn't expect a reply. :D

Frankly I'm surprised they even accept PMs. lol

phillinley
08-19-2005, 07:49 PM
OK I've officially exhausted all possibilities through my credit card company and they can't do anything cause I waited too long (once the status page went down, so did my chances of shopwing to the CC company what hadn;t shipped.) So instead, I'm taking matters into my own hands and will be driving overnight tonight from Iowa to Georgia and getting my damn starwars figs! I'm going to search through this post to get the address but if it isn't there can someone post it on here so I can go down and get them easier?

Turbowars
08-19-2005, 07:53 PM
While you are there, burn the place down. :yes:

Hey phillinley (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/member.php?u=7241) I think driving there will be a waste of you time. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. How ever the outer side of me wants you to go and beat the crap out of them. I'd be surprised if they still have a shop. I bet all the E-bay sales are being shipped from the A-holes garage. Way to go Kebco:thumbsup:

phillinley
08-19-2005, 07:56 PM
OK the address last put up on the boards was 17 jefferson st, newnan georgia.
So that puts me 836 miles away from kebco. Even with gas so high, those guys owe me $800+ in product, and I'm going to get it back. Don't know if I'll have internet access on the way down, but if I find an online cafe or something in the town and I do find these guys, give me your lists with names and addresses and I'll give them to him as well.

Turbowars
08-19-2005, 08:02 PM
Don't forget your bat with nails and a rope.:twisted:

Slicker
08-19-2005, 08:18 PM
Well someone means business. It's sad that it had to come to this. I've never ordered from Kebco but I've kept up on this thread and it amazes me that people still order from them even though they have this poor of customer service.

rassmguy
08-19-2005, 09:05 PM
OK the address last put up on the boards was 17 jefferson st, newnan georgia.
So that puts me 836 miles away from kebco. Even with gas so high, those guys owe me $800+ in product, and I'm going to get it back. Don't know if I'll have internet access on the way down, but if I find an online cafe or something in the town and I do find these guys, give me your lists with names and addresses and I'll give them to him as well.


If they don't give you the figures, do $900 in damage so they at least don't get to keep your money.

rassmguy
08-19-2005, 09:07 PM
If they don't give you the figures, do $900 in damage so they at least don't get to keep your money.


Anyone here know any hackers, by any chance? You could get them to hack KEBco's site and post, on their front page, an admission that they're scamming people.

Jedi Drew
08-21-2005, 08:21 AM
Good luck with getting your figures or money.. Don't get thrown in jail. ;) These bums (I'll be nice ) still owe me about 200 dollars worth of stuff. I have another address that I sent my cretified mail to:
Kebco Toys
49 Newnaw S. Industrial Drive
Newnaw, GA 30263
Hope this helps...Good luck and keep us posted with your results.

dindae
08-22-2005, 10:39 AM
Rather than drive down there I would suggest taking them to small claims court. I plan on doing it as soon as I have the money to do so. I have been pushing it off (new figures keep winning the battle of where to spend my money). I know in Tennessee they would have to come here if they want to contest it.

jedi-cpa
08-22-2005, 11:41 AM
Status page still down.

I actually do not own one single packed episode III figure and quite frankly have such a sour taste in my mouth, don't know if I care now to try to catch up from fig 1.

But I got to tell you. I have a bad feeling about this!

phillinley
08-22-2005, 11:13 PM
Finally! I'm back from the south! Sorry it took so long to file a report with you guys but I got back last night and after only four hours of sleep since Friday morning I thought I'd be more coherent with a good night's sleep first ;)
Anyways, I drive the 14 some hours down to Newnan and the Jefferson St. address is correct. They have probably the biggest action figure storefront I've ever seen outside of Toys R Us. Tons of star wars, joe, transformer, he-man, etc. etc. So I'm more than a little miffed as I walk in seeing all of this from outside of the store. Ken was at the front counter and I walk right up to him, tell him who I am and asked what the hell is going on. He knew me immediately since I was one of his first star wars one of every figure customers. He doesn't look surprised at all, just kind of tired looking. He quickly goes over to the computer and starts printing out my invoice sheets (which he still has everyone's so dont worry that he had erased them to cover his tracks.) As he goes about the process of tracking down the figures, I start asking him a litany of questions. After about an hour of jumping back and forth on the subject, I've come to realize that this whole fiasco is the fault of Ken (which he freely admits), Hasbro, and a bunch of impatient buyers who screwed him over and started the whole avalanche of charge backs in the first place. Firstly, they were moving to a new warehouse so things were going slowly due to the move. That is understandable given the stock they have in their warehouse (which to me was very impressive with literally thousands of cases of figures). He then goes on to tell me the problems he's been having with Hasbro and how that translated into not being able to fulfill orders in a timely manner. Supposedly when you order a case assortment from hasbro, you are never guaranteed anything in the box. For example he showed me a pallet of cases where all that was left was the Yoda with padawan figure. Out of 1000 cases in that shipment (with 8 different case assortments) he got four of each of that figure pack in every single box when the figure was already 6 months old to start. So basically he was sitting on more yoda/padawan's than one man could give away in a lifetime. Other issues he's been having with them, is Hasbro not fulfilling there orders completely. He had ordered 400 cases of the sneak preview wave and was only shipped four. They often have to resort to driving all over the area and buying up the figures and other stores in order to fill their customers orders. OK there's the example's of Hasbro's end.
Now to how we can never get a hold of them. From what he said they stopped going on the forums and dealing with e-mails outside of e-bay sales because they were unable to satisfy anyone. I can understand flame wars in the forums, but the e-mails part kinda bothers me. It would assuage a lot of people's fears had they done that. He also told me that they still answer their phone, but that it just rings all the time. This I don't know how to take either, cause for being there an hour or so the phone probably only ringed 6 times, but at the same time, it was early Saturday afternoon. They have currently gotten off orders to 200 hundred of their club members and are working at filling in the rest of their orders. They are also working on getting up a new web site to try and restart everything.

Another one of the problems that started this whole thing was that a few guys decided they were getting stiffed on the preview wave and chargebacked every transaction they've ever made to Kebco. That's pretty darn ballsy going back and getting chargebacks on hundreds of dollars of figures you've already received just cause you're late getting four figures. This started a block on his credit card system which then started the next avalanche of chargebacks from other members who were worried. He said that a while back he had set aside 12,000 dollars to stave off something like this, and that he had lost almost all of it.

Now he just wasn't giving me all talk on this, he was showing me records and everything. The guy's not evil, he just had some unfortunate things happen to him and screwed the pooch on the bext we to communicate to his customers what had happened. By being vague and not responding to the situation when his deadlines he had declared to ship by had expired, he lost all credibility with his online customers.

There are still quite a few figures on my order list that had still not arrived, the most expensive of which being the EE clonetrooper packs. We worked out whatever I was still owed, and some of the stuff he still had for me that I already bought myself thinking kebco was a lost cause he let me sub out for other things. He has only received the first 24 figures in the ROTS line and has no idea when he'll see the rest so for those of you waiting on that go ahead and fill out your needs on the shelves while they're still there. After we worked out what I was still owed that hadn't received I closed my account and he chargedback what I was owed to my creditcard. So in the end I drove all the way down and got exactly what I was owed, and a bunch of useful information that I hope will help a lot of you who are still waiting on your orders.

Here's the only things I can say for certain:
His credit card machine is up and he did have orders on palletes to be shipped out (whether these were ebay orders or website orders I have know way of knowing).
He is NOT going bankrupt. His store was pretty packed and he's doing a brisk business on e-bay. So don't worry that he'll take your money and disappear. He's staying right where he is.
His phone does work. I called it while I was there when he was out of the room and it was ringing so that is the phone number on the website.

Now I don't suggest that all of you should drive down to georgia to get your stuff. I'm weird, I like long drives and settling disputes face-to-face. I do suggest you keep e-mailing and calling (I told him he should seriously get back on the e-mail to get these disputes settled). Those things do not cost you money to do. Legal action does cost money, and I have hardly ever seen anyone settle a dispute that way at this level of money of action figures online. At the same time, if you see something on the shelf at TRU or target that you're still owed, I'd grab it up. When you finally get him on the phone, tell him what you still need and get chargebacks on the rest that he doesn't have.

I hope this helps some of you guys out there who were looking for a little bit of hope out there. Cause the guy is there, it's just getting a hold of him that is the problem.

phillinley
08-22-2005, 11:22 PM
Oh btw, feel free to forward this on to any other forums where people are having problems as this is the only star wars figure forum I frequent.

jjreason
08-22-2005, 11:48 PM
I'm really happy it worked out for you. Great report. With any luck, the others who are still in the red to KEBco will be able to get sorted out soon. Personally, I'm still feeling pretty lucky I got out when I did.

groe
08-23-2005, 12:31 AM
Hey all,

I thought I'd raid the vaults and show you what Ken is upset about. I love his explanation that he's some kind of victim in all of this and those of us that did charge backs are to blame. I went the charge back route and I'm glad I did or I'd be out a lot more money than I am. So here is my story told in emails from Ken himself:

On February 22nd of this year, like many of you I received the following email from Kebco:

"As many of you already know we are no longer accepting Non-Club Pre-Orders. This will allow us to focus on the Club Members Pre-Orders and will allow us to better fill all of the Club Members Pre-Orders from this point forward. In the past we have had some trouble obtaining enough figures to fill all of our Pre-Orders.

This started happening with the OTC Basic and OTC Vintage figures last year. We do understand there are several Club Members that have not received the last 14 or 15 OTC Basic figures. We are trying to locate more figures so we can fill those Pre-Orders soon. If we cannot fill these Pre-Orders in the next few weeks we will be issuing full refunds to those customers.

We are currently shipping the first 4 EP3 Sneak Preview figures and we do not anticipate any problems filling all EP3 Pre-Orders this year for our One of Every Figure Club Members."

Like many of you, I was not happy. A one of every figure club means one of every figure. If I couldn't get the toys, I wanted my account closed and all money refunded. I sent 6 emails to Ken over the next 3 weeks stating this. None were answered. I realized that my money would be gone if I didn't do something so I called my credit card agency and explained the situation. I figured up how much money I was owed and proceeded to do chargebacks of my last few invoices until that amount was reached. My chargebacks prompted the following email from Ken on March 31st:

"Hi Gregory,
Sorry it has taken so long to get your account cleared up.

But I am puzzled about the charge backs you have requested.

You have requested 5 different charge backs for merchandise not received.
But 4 of the 5, you have received the items. We have a UPS proof of delivery signed by someone in your office.

I'm sure we can get this cleared up.

#1 for $55.82 - this is for the first Galactic Heroes and the Post OTC. These were shipped and signed for on 1/6/05
#2 for $15.49 - this is for Vintage OTC
#3 for $18.87 - this is for the 2nd Galactic Heroes, both delivered and signed for on 2/3/2005
#4 for $21.93 - this is for the EP3 Sneak figures, delivered and signed for on 2/25/05
#5 for $51.96 - this is for the deposit on EP3 Deluxe figures. Not due out and can not be shipped until after 4/2/05.

Please take a look and be sure I am correct before I respond to the charge back requests.

Thanks,
Ken"

And ten minutes later, this one also from Ken:

"Found one more for $74.90

This is for the deposit on the EP3 figures.

If you want to cancel these, then this is valid.

Ken"

I responed that I just needed to get my money back and felt that I had paid for that merchandise previously in unfilled invoices that would never be shipped. I sent him a list of figures I had not received and the amount I had estimated that was owed to me ($248.56). The following day, I received this email from Ken:

"Hi Gregory,

This is what I show

From 2004

4 figures @ $6.49 charged 50% deposit = $ 12.98
1 figure @ $6.29 charged 50% deposit = $ 3.14
16 figures @ $6.49 charged in full = $ 103.84
1 shipping @ $ 5.00

Total from 2004 = $ 124.96

From 2005

Deposits of $74.90 & $51.96

Total from 2005 = $ 126.86

Grand total = $ 251.82 This is the amount to be refunded to you.

The problem is you selected charges for items that have been delivered.
Whenever someone requests a chargeback, I must respond to the credit card company showing all my records. My records will show that these amounts are for items which have been delivered.
The credit card company will reverse the charge back and you will not get the money.

What must be done now is
Either
#1 I must show all my records (which may take a few days) and get the amounts reversed.
or
#2 You can request all the chargebacks be cancelled to get this closed.
If you select #2, please email me a copy also.

Either case I will have to refund (credit your card) the correct amount.

I am very sorry to lose you as a customer. We have had many problems getting the product from Hasbro as well as internal problems. All will be worked out soon and we will be back to normal.

Please advise.

Ken"

Needless to say, as this forum was starting to fill with messages, I decided to continue the chargeback process. Out of all of my chargebacks, Kebco was able to stop one for $21.93. The difference between what I was owed and what I charged back was $12.85 in their favor. I would have walked away happy with that having learned to be more vigilant to being scammed in the future. But no, Ken needed that extra $21.93 so I'm still owed to this day a whopping $34.78 by Kebco. A paltry sum compared to what is owed most of you but still, it has now become a matter of principle to me. I'm taking Kebco to small claims court and it's gonna cost them alot more than $34.78. In Kansas, when I win, they will have to pay all of my fees and expenses.

Those of you who also did chargebacks, don't feel bad for a second. You have every right to protect yourself when a company like Kebco tries to steal money from you. I feel sorry for those of you who didn't go the chargeback route because it becomes more obvious every day that you won't be seeing your money again unless you make a trip to Georgia or file in small claims. I have all of my invoices as well as a nice email from Ken admitting he owes me the money so I'm not too worried about my $34.78. Good luck to those of you who gave Kebco the benefit of the doubt! It sucks that your faith was rewarded with with a big "f**k you" from Kebco.

Greg

dindae
08-23-2005, 09:33 AM
phillinley I'm glad you got what you needed. And while small claims does cost up front it doesn't even cost as much as it would for gas for the trip down there and I am in Nashville, TN. Plus like Groe stated I will get it back when I win. None of the reasons for the downfall of Kebco is news if you read the thread. The fact is Ken is a nice guy when you talk to him and when you do things get done, but the fact that you have to drive down to the store to garuantee an audience with him is ridiculous. He seems to have written us off as customers so I feel no remorse in doing the same to him.

ArtooMetoo
08-23-2005, 11:02 AM
Hey, all.

I want to let you know that I did a little bit of investigating into the small claims court process.

Some things that are true: You do have to pay filing fees to file a small claims court claim. You have to have your case ready when you file. If KEBco does not appear in court, or send someone as proxy, you will win by default. Your court fees and other costs can be included in the amount you are awarded.

One important thing to know: Winning a case in small claims does NOT guarantee that you will get the amount awarded to you. That's right. The court system has no way of enforcing the decisions it makes. KEBco can be found in the wrong, but that doesn't mean they'll have to pay you.

What to do? You'll have to hire a collection agency. Here's the rub. You will pay the collection agency about HALF of the amount you were awarded. You will also have to find an agency that is willing to take your business. Collecting of $100 will simply not be worth their time.

Some things to think about.

stillakid
08-23-2005, 12:12 PM
I've been thinking about the explanation that phillinley gave above. What I don't understand is why Ken doesn't just reroute all the online business through the Ebay store. If his "accounts" are frozen or whatever regarding the www.kebcotoys.com store, then what's stopping him from simply running our outstanding legitimate One of Every Figure invoices through the EBay arm of the business? I don't know. Maybe there is a perfectly logical and legal reason for it, but on the surface, it doesn't seem to make much sense for him to be sitting there with crates of product collecting dust while his customer base abandons all hope when there is a possible way to keep the deliveries coming.

Anyone? Any ideas? Ken?

dindae
08-23-2005, 01:31 PM
Stillakid from what I am gathering is that he just filling orders as he can. Since he has already blown any reasonable order window he has stopped caring about any of his club customers. As far as the crates of product, I don't think they will fill any orders but rather crap that has already been mailed out. As far as why he doesn't reroute us through the ebay end, I don't believe he wants to. The ebay end and store front are probably working well for him so he doesn't want to flood that end of the business with the massive load of crap that he has turned the club end into. As of now he can simply quarantine us and leave us in the wind until he gets figures in (not very likely for most of us) or until we do something like phillinley.

ArtooMetoo you bring up a very good point about the collection issue. I guess I will have to make a trip as well. Anyone want to chip in on gas? I figure if I go down I may as well bring the paperwork for all of the people who have listened to me vent all this time. :D

stillakid
08-23-2005, 01:53 PM
Stillakid from what I am gathering is that he just filling orders as he can. Since he has already blown any reasonable order window he has stopped caring about any of his club customers. As far as the crates of product, I don't think they will fill any orders but rather crap that has already been mailed out. As far as why he doesn't reroute us through the ebay end, I don't believe he wants to. The ebay end and store front are probably working well for him so he doesn't want to flood that end of the business with the massive load of crap that he has turned the club end into. As of now he can simply quarantine us and leave us in the wind until he gets figures in (not very likely for most of us) or until we do something like phillinley.

Perhaps I misunderstood the situation. Is it that Ken HAS the product and just doesn't have the financial wherewithal to ship it out properly due to the initial chargeback issues? Or is it that Ken does NOT have the product at all due to Hasbro assortment issues?

Or is it a combination of both? He has some of the product, but still isn't shipping it because of the credit problem in the online store arm of the company? If this is the case, then that's the real problem I'm having with KEBco. The One of Every Figure orders are bought and paid for. I have at least 1 invoice where I was charged both segments of the 50% and for shipping yet that order never arrived at my door. For the rest, I paid him a 50% advance in good faith as a guarantee that the ordered product would be shipped as soon as it was available to KEBco. That some of what is owed me ever went out the backdoor to an Ebay auction is what is criminal and Ken should be held accountable no matter what excuses he can muster.

Beyond that, it is his responsibility to uphold his end of the bargain, meaning that no matter what his delivery problem with Hasbro was, it is still KEBco's responsibility to find and delivery the promised product in a timely fashion. So if that meant that Ken had to go buy product from Brian's Toys to fill his own orders, that's what he should be doing instead of whining about how Hasbro screwed his plans up. Either that, or issue full refunds in a timely fashion with profuse apologies to his customer base. Instead, all we've gotten is ignored and shafted. :whip:

dindae
08-23-2005, 04:17 PM
That is understandable given the stock they have in their warehouse (which to me was very impressive with literally thousands of cases of figures). He then goes on to tell me the problems he's been having with Hasbro and how that translated into not being able to fulfill orders in a timely manner. Supposedly when you order a case assortment from hasbro, you are never guaranteed anything in the box. For example he showed me a pallet of cases where all that was left was the Yoda with padawan figure. Out of 1000 cases in that shipment (with 8 different case assortments) he got four of each of that figure pack in every single box when the figure was already 6 months old to start. So basically he was sitting on more yoda/padawan's than one man could give away in a lifetime. Other issues he's been having with them, is Hasbro not fulfilling there orders completely. He had ordered 400 cases of the sneak preview wave and was only shipped four. They often have to resort to driving all over the area and buying up the figures and other stores in order to fill their customers orders.

Stillakid I take it from the above that for the most part that his inventory was filled with things he didn't need. No preview and no ROTS over 24 means he is sitting on a bunch of 1-24 that everyone has and whatever they have left from OTC and before. For me the things that were promised to me are long gone. The newer things I think he can start filling just by hitting local stores or picking up cases here or there to fill what he needs for 25+, but that is a slow process and I'm sure would totally screw his profits so I would expect him to wait on Hasbro to fill his order.

stillakid
08-23-2005, 04:29 PM
Stillakid I take it from the above that for the most part that his inventory was filled with things he didn't need. No preview and no ROTS over 24 means he is sitting on a bunch of 1-24 that everyone has and whatever they have left from OTC and before. For me the things that were promised to me are long gone. The newer things I think he can start filling just by hitting local stores or picking up cases here or there to fill what he needs for 25+, but that is a slow process and I'm sure would totally screw his profits so I would expect him to wait on Hasbro to fill his order.


Perhaps, but I received a grand total of 6 figures out of that initial 24 from KEBco. If he's got all this overstock on 1-24, then where did my orders go? And why wasn't I contacted personally about the delay with an apology? Or why wasn't a refund issued with an apology when he knew that I would not be receiving my order? And why wasn't my request for refunds and club cancellation acknowledged? Why do I have to jump through hoops with my credit card company when the blame is so obviously in KEBco's court?

phillinley
08-24-2005, 12:15 AM
I dont think he has much of the 1-24 left lying around. My order of the 1-24 was already boxed up in the back. As for his upstairs warehouse, yeah he does have quite a bit of stuff that will not sell easily which is where the ebay store comes into play. I also had quite a few things left on my list that had not arrived yet which had still only been charged 50%.

2-1B
08-24-2005, 01:34 AM
Good job Phil, that's awesome that you went down there and that you got everything cleared up . . . sorry about that time and money you had to spend to do that, though !

Small claims court, I agree that it is a waste of time. Big deal (from KebCo's POV) if someone wins an out of state judgement against them . . . it's not like they have to pay up. :( We don't have debtor's prisons in this country anymore.

phillinley
08-24-2005, 01:48 AM
The time really wasn't that big a deal. I made a trip of it. Watched the Braves play after I settled the deal, then went north to the Little Green Men festival in Kentucky and rounded out the trip going to Gencon in Indianpolis, so it ended up being a fun little weekend.
That's the only way I would ever go about it, driving 30 hours just to get some action figures would have drove me nuts on the way back ;)

Jedi Drew
08-24-2005, 08:39 PM
Stillakid from what I am gathering is that he just filling orders as he can. Since he has already blown any reasonable order window he has stopped caring about any of his club customers. As far as the crates of product, I don't think they will fill any orders but rather crap that has already been mailed out. As far as why he doesn't reroute us through the ebay end, I don't believe he wants to. The ebay end and store front are probably working well for him so he doesn't want to flood that end of the business with the massive load of crap that he has turned the club end into. As of now he can simply quarantine us and leave us in the wind until he gets figures in (not very likely for most of us) or until we do something like phillinley.

ArtooMetoo you bring up a very good point about the collection issue. I guess I will have to make a trip as well. Anyone want to chip in on gas? I figure if I go down I may as well bring the paperwork for all of the people who have listened to me vent all this time. :D

I'll throw you a 20 for gas and mail you copies of my invoices. Let's get some more people together on this mission. Where would you be driving from??? I want my cash back from these douche bags..... :mad:

dindae
08-24-2005, 08:59 PM
I would be driving from Nashville so I figure $30-40 bucks worth of gas is all it would take. You can send the invoices to my email in my profile.

Jedi Drew
08-24-2005, 10:19 PM
If you don't mind me asking how much cash do the douche's owe you???

dindae
08-25-2005, 09:42 AM
They only owe me around $260. But that is a lot of moeny to me as far as figures go.