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View Full Version : Did you like the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Trailer?



JediTricks
11-14-2004, 08:45 PM
With the Ep III teaser trailer out now pretty much everywhere, from theaters to TV to internet, chances are that every Star Wars fan who wanted to see the trailer has now done so. That in mind, this week's poll is gauging the fan response to the trailer. Didja love it, like it, hate it, just plain want more? Did the inclusion of ANH footage work for you or was it out of place?

After you vote, feel free to post about your favorite parts or bicker about what that red stuff was behind Yoda, but please keep it SPOILER-FREE.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
11-14-2004, 08:48 PM
Did I like it?!?!!
Does the Pope Wear a large hat?!?!
Did the Yankees choke this year?!?
Can my cubbies ever win the Series?!?!

by God yes, i loved it!! I thought the addition of Old Obi-Wan chatting about it was purely awesome as it was a great setup. I also wanted MORE MORE MORE, but accepting this is only a "teaser" i had to accept it.

I can't wait for another trailer. :D

Slicker
11-14-2004, 08:55 PM
I absolutely loved the trailer. I think that I watched it literally scene for scene at one point. I thought the addition of the ANH footage was the best part of the entire trailer because that movie and in particular that scene explained the origins of Anakin and the Sith. Lucas did a great thing with this trailer and let's hope the movie doesn't disappoint.

Kidhuman
11-14-2004, 09:32 PM
Did I like it? Fo shizzle my nizzle. It got my blood pumping and my skin goosebumping. I can not wait for this movie.

Jaff
11-14-2004, 09:52 PM
Wow! It looks to be the mood that it should be. I vote Lovin it, just like super size!

James Boba Fettfield
11-14-2004, 11:25 PM
I saw some new Star Wars footage in the footage, of course I loved it.

Any scenes showing lightsaber usage can be tallied as my favorite parts of the teaser.

Darth Jax
11-15-2004, 12:15 AM
Since Ep 3 will be the final chapter in the saga and has to bridge the gap between the prequels and the OT i thought the inclusion of ANH footage was excellent. Showed just enough new footage to really pique interest and make us (or at least me) salivate for more.

Astromech
11-15-2004, 03:48 AM
I thought the inclusion of ANH was a disappointing at first (expecting the whole trailer to be a big tease) but then when that voice......THAT VOICE said Lord Vader...rise, I tripped. The second time I watched it, I liked the whole thing understanding the setup better. The new footage looks dark and evil. It will be fun to watch Annakin lose his marbles. I think I am going to really like this one. Especially if they don't screw it up with 45 mins of gratuitous love scenes like Ep2. BLEAH>>>>>> :crazed:

jonthejedi
11-15-2004, 05:18 AM
Ab-fab loved it...can't wait for more. My son(8yrs. old) comes off the chair when he saw Lord Vader. And that wookiee army shot. HWWWklllwwr!!!!!! lol lol

Knightfall
11-15-2004, 06:45 AM
'Twas cool. The blended footage from Ep.'s 1, 2, and 4 helped make the Star Wars saga seem like a single unit for the first time for me. And oh my God...the Wookiees :D ...I really hope this one doesn't disappoint like the last two efforts.

OC47150
11-15-2004, 08:10 AM
Still haven't seen it on the big screen, which, I'm told, shows more detail.

I want more!!!!

kool-aid killer
11-15-2004, 01:26 PM
I cast my vote as "i totally loved it," because i did. Anytime i see new Star Wars footage i cant help but hide my amazement. The teaser trailer was like a drug, gave me an awesome high but left me wanting more once it had ended. Im avoiding spoilers like the plague but this just had me wanting to know more. Arrghhh!!! The wait for this is killing me.

Ji'dai
11-15-2004, 04:32 PM
I haven't seen the trailer so I can't comment on it. :frus: :dead:

aceguide
11-15-2004, 04:53 PM
Great start.

Now I want MORE!

El Chuxter
11-15-2004, 05:37 PM
I must object to this poll as it does not accurately represent my opinion. There should be a choice for, "Dude, that kicked so much arse, I pooped in my pants and heard angel choirs singing hallelujah, can I get an amen!"

Let's put it this way: this was so cool, even if you threw in a shot of Jubilee wearing big green foam rubber Hulk gloves leading an army of drunken pirate bears to cover TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK's Clone War-winning sprint to kick Grievous squah in the you-know-whats as Kit Fisto grins and flexes his totally ripped pecs and Mace yells about his missing super-suit, all to the tune of "We Are The Champions," I doubt it could have been cooler. You can't improve on perfection.

Clonetrooper1131
11-15-2004, 05:47 PM
I had no words to describe what I saw. After the secondtime, I still had no words.

Still today I have no words to describe what I saw.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
11-15-2004, 05:57 PM
I love it, I think it's really great! May is too far off . . .

Darth Jax
11-15-2004, 08:04 PM
having just seen it on the big screen, it's even better than seeing it on my computer.

Rocketboy
11-15-2004, 10:35 PM
In-friggin'-credible!
I got chills just like like I did with the trailers for Episodes I and II.
May is so close, yet so far away...

bighead5
11-16-2004, 02:25 PM
To quote Knightfall from earlier: "...I really hope this one doesn't disappoint like the last two efforts."
That's the real key. I voted I liked it even though I totally loved the new trailer just as I did the trailers for Ep. I and II. I couldn't wait for the movies to come out either only to be disappointed with Ep. I and even more disappointed with Ep. II. Now, I'm afraid to get too excited about Ep. III for fear of being let down a third time. I really hope I'm wrong though because I want this movie to be great... just as we all do.

Don't let us down again, George!

thomasandrea-call
11-16-2004, 07:00 PM
To quote Rocketboy from earlier: "...I really hope this one doesn't disappoint like the last two efforts."
That's the real key. I voted I liked it even though I totally loved the new trailer just as I did the trailers for Ep. I and II. I couldn't wait for the movies to come out either only to be disappointed with Ep. I and even more disappointed with Ep. II. Now, I'm afraid to get too excited about Ep. III for fear of being let down a third time. I really hope I'm wrong though because I want this movie to be great... just as we all do.

Don't let us down again, George!I said it in another poll quit whinning about how upset and disappointed you were with the first two movies, like anybody else could right a better story and also try to bridge the gap between the first three movies and the OT. EPII was very good, we saw Anakins darker side when he went into the Tuskin's camp, and then we saw the other side for his love for Padame.

We also saw the start of the clone wars which show us how the stormtroopers come to be. We also see the jedi order take a hit when it lost nearly 200 jedi knights and Masters. We see that the Jedi are concerned with the Senate and I think that he [Lucas] Did a great job with EP II and I really get tired hearing people complain about it. What was not to love with both EP I & EP II, they both had fights in space, grond combat and light saber duels Could it be for those who always complian that you might have expectaions that nobody could meet?

It is like a book, the chapters leading to the climactic end, there are sometimes so boring chapters but all in all, if it is a good book the climatic end makes up for the weak previous chapters.

dr_evazan22
11-16-2004, 08:56 PM
I absolutely loved the trailer. I think that I watched it literally scene for scene at one point. I thought the addition of the ANH footage was the best part of the entire trailer because that movie and in particular that scene explained the origins of Anakin and the Sith. Lucas did a great thing with this trailer and let's hope the movie doesn't disappoint.

I feel pretty much the same way. Loved Obi's VO from ANH, it was great seeing Qui Gon again during the "protectors of the old Republic" part, the flash to the clones in reference to the Empire. It did a very good job of pulling the PT and the OT together.

The thing about the trailer that has me the most confused is why Vader would be strapped down to the table though.

A good teaser, whetting my appetite.

After watching it numerous times I watched it backwards frame by frame to see what I had missed. Looking forward to Jan or Feb for the next trailer.

JediTricks
11-16-2004, 09:33 PM
The thing about the trailer that has me the most confused is why Vader would be strapped down to the table though.Think of Frankenstein's monster scenes, he's usually strapped down and then he is given the prompt to rise. When I first saw the trailer on TV, it looked like he didn't even have hands in that scene, it was really weird looking (and a second later, I was distracted by the chest box being embedded into the chest).

dr_evazan22
11-16-2004, 09:52 PM
I forgot... Maybe it was just a light reflection, but it looked like Vader was wearing his shoulder piece from Jedi, with the silver stripes. Did you notice this too?

Rocketboy
11-16-2004, 10:43 PM
To quote Rocketboy from earlier: "...I really hope this one doesn't disappoint like the last two efforts."You mean Knightfall.


(I wasn't disappointed at all with Episodes I and II)

Mad Slanted Powers
11-18-2004, 01:15 AM
Think of Frankenstein's monster scenes, he's usually strapped down and then he is given the prompt to rise. When I first saw the trailer on TV, it looked like he didn't even have hands in that scene, it was really weird looking (and a second later, I was distracted by the chest box being embedded into the chest).

Yes, that is kind of what I was thinking. I recall reading something Lucas had said about they way in which Darth Vader would be revealed. It was to be sort of an homage to some classic film or films of the 30's or 40's, so the Vader scene in the trailer was like bringing Frankenstein's monster to life.

I really loved the trailer. The clips from the previous movies and the old Ben voice over helped link it all together. Seeing Sidious/Palpatine actually wielding a lightsaber was pretty cool. Plus, we got a glimpse of the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I'm not too worried about being disappointed as I actually liked Episodes I and II. Maybe episode II wasn't as great, but I still enjoyed it. Episode III looks to be great if the trailer is any indication. Can't wait until the next one.

stillakid
11-18-2004, 08:45 AM
As trailers go, I thought that this one was rather weak. There wasn't much of a flow from element to the next. For a recent example of a great trailer, take a look at how they packaged "Ray."

In terms of Star Wars, it was alright, but not great. The images used weren't terribly interesting or compelling. What's with Hayden's eyes (http://www.sporteyes.com/crazyeyes.htm)? And while the Frankenstein thing is mucho obvious, it was lacking the proper mood which might have otherwise been provided by better dramatic lighting and smoke. As it looks now, Vader looks like he's being prepared on the set of a PBS cooking show. Once again, Yoda exhibits anger which is supposed to be in the arena of the darkside. What's up with that? The shot of the volcano is gratutiously drawn out about 4 seconds longer than necessary. I haven't been able to figure out why they did that.

Ben's voiceover just proves further that the Prequels have not followed the continuity of the OT. Unrelated and nonsensical images are placed over Ben's description of what we were told would happen. Clearly they had trouble finding relevant images primarily because there weren't any. What does Anakin flying through the desert have to do with anything Ben was saying? Nada, that's what. I'm being vindicated onscreen by the trailer. I expect more of the same with the movie.

And overall, I didn't get the sense of "story" that a trailer like this should give. I'm not suggesting that it tell the story, but that it hints at some of the dramatic turns that occur. Really, most of what we see are a lot of reaction shots by characters to some kind of unknown events. Hopefully the next trailer will calm down and reveal some of the politics and drama of the story.

Rocketboy
11-18-2004, 10:29 PM
We get it, you hate the prequels.
Enough is enough.

Slicker
11-18-2004, 10:36 PM
And overall, I didn't get the sense of "story" that a trailer like this should give. I'm not suggesting that it tell the story, but that it hints at some of the dramatic turns that occur. Really, most of what we see are a lot of reaction shots by characters to some kind of unknown events. Hopefully the next trailer will calm down and reveal some of the politics and drama of the story. Thankfully for Lucas he has the luxury of people already knowing or having a general idea of what's gonna happen in this movie (hint:Ani goes bad, the twins are born, the Jedi are killed, etc.) he doesn't really have to explain the story he can showcase the incredible effects.

stillakid
11-18-2004, 11:21 PM
We get it, you hate the prequels.
Enough is enough.


Interesting idea. So to all the Prequel-lovers out there, is it equally okay to say "enough is enough" when it comes to praise? :confused:

The question was posed, "Did you like the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Trailer?" I answered it as did many others. The question didn't specify that only positive reviews be posted.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-18-2004, 11:55 PM
Ben's voiceover just proves further that the Prequels have not followed the continuity of the OT. Unrelated and nonsensical images are placed over Ben's description of what we were told would happen. Clearly they had trouble finding relevant images primarily because there weren't any. What does Anakin flying through the desert have to do with anything Ben was saying? Nada, that's what. I'm being vindicated onscreen by the trailer. I expect more of the same with the movie.

I didn't find the images to be unrelated to what Ben was saying. When he speaks of the Jedi being the guardians of peace and justice, we see an image of Qui-Gon. We see the beginnings of the Empire with the clone army when he mentions "before the dark times". When he talks about a young Jedi named Darth Vader, we see images of Anakin. The shot of Anakin on the bike is when Ben says Vader hunted down the Jedi. While he wasn't hunting Jedi in that scene, he was on his way to hunt down Tuskens. When Ben says Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force, we see Anakin and his evil eyes. I'll admit I don't know what's up with the eyes, but perhaps we'll find out.



And overall, I didn't get the sense of "story" that a trailer like this should give. I'm not suggesting that it tell the story, but that it hints at some of the dramatic turns that occur. Really, most of what we see are a lot of reaction shots by characters to some kind of unknown events. Hopefully the next trailer will calm down and reveal some of the politics and drama of the story.

This is just a "teaser trailer". I'm sure the next trailer will reveal a bit more of the story. Still, we get more of a sense of story with this trailer than we did with the first trailer for Episode II, which was basically silent except for a little music and some lightsaber clashes at the end. That trailer was pretty much a bunch of random images.

Rocketboy
11-19-2004, 11:55 AM
Interesting idea. So to all the Prequel-lovers out there, is it equally okay to say "enough is enough" when it comes to praise? :confused:

The question was posed, "Did you like the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Trailer?" I answered it as did many others. The question didn't specify that only positive reviews be posted. A simple Yes or No and a short reason why would suffice (like the others did), not a massive nit-picky post about the little things that are "nonsensical," when you haven't even seen the movie.
You seem to use any Episode III related topic to blast it left and right, which I find odd. I don't like Lord of the Rings (at all) and I don't go to every Lord of the Rings related-thread to blast it.

Teaser trailers don't have to tell the story. That's why they're called teasers. IMO, far too many trailers tell far too much of the story.

So far, I don't see any conflict with Ben's ANH dialogue and the prequels. Remember his "certain point of view" explaination from ROTJ? He was trying to protect Luke from the truth and chose to leave out certain aspects.

stillakid
11-20-2004, 01:44 AM
A simple Yes or No and a short reason why would suffice (like the others did), not a massive nit-picky post about the little things that are "nonsensical," when you haven't even seen the movie.
I won't give that comment the respect of a response.


You seem to use any Episode III related topic to blast it left and right, which I find odd. I don't like Lord of the Rings (at all) and I don't go to every Lord of the Rings related-thread to blast it.
Seem to. I wasn't blasting the movie. I was posting my opinion about the Episode III trailer, which was the question posed. Again, I don't recall there be a stipulation that the comments be positive.


Teaser trailers don't have to tell the story. That's why they're called teasers. IMO, far too many trailers tell far too much of the story.
True. Again I didn't suggest that it "tell" the story but merely that it expound more upon other aspects. I would agree that a "teaser" trailer is fundamentally meant to be more "emotional" in nature in order to rev an audience up for further trailers down the road. I explained in my initial post why I felt that it failed in that regard (ie, the choice of imagery).



So far, I don't see any conflict with Ben's ANH dialogue and the prequels. Remember his "certain point of view" explaination from ROTJ? He was trying to protect Luke from the truth and chose to leave out certain aspects.


I don't choose to rely on the "certain point of view" comment by Ben to rationalize away every inconsistency that exists in the saga. His comment was made for a very specific reason regarding a very specific incident at a very specific time. The idea that Ben is a "liar" and colors everything he says behind the "certain point of view" concept hasn't played out in the Prequels nor in any other part of the OT outside of the given situation.

If we are to rely on what Ben said in the OT as you yourself are suggesting, then by your own standards the Prequels are not following the given events nor timeline. Therefore using Ben's VO as a companion to select shots from the Prequels is misleading at best.

Mad Slanted Powers
11-20-2004, 12:24 PM
If we are to rely on what Ben said in the OT as you yourself are suggesting, then by your own standards the Prequels are not following the given events nor timeline. Therefore using Ben's VO as a companion to select shots from the Prequels is misleading at best.

What did Ben say in the OT that has been contradicted?

scruffziller
11-20-2004, 12:57 PM
What's with Hayden's eyes (http://www.sporteyes.com/crazyeyes.htm)?
He has turned to the darkside.....;) :D

No, but seriously, I WAS wondering that myself. The link is pretty funny.:D
CRAZY EYES!!!!!!:crazed:

stillakid
11-20-2004, 01:09 PM
What did Ben say in the OT that has been contradicted?

There are already numerous threads about this, but really quickly:


Anakin was a good friend.
We haven't seen any evidence of this at all. In TPM, Ani is a little kid and the interactions between he and Obi Wan are sparse at best. They were definitely not "friends." When we join their relationship in progress in AOTC, it is not a "good friend" relationship. At best it's a strained teacher/student arrangement throughout.


When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him.
One might assume that Old Ben is referring to the Podracing. However, how would he know? He never saw it. He was stuck on the ship while the newly invented character named Qui Gon went out and found the boy. Obi Wan never had occasion to be "amazed" at how strongly the Force was with Anakin.


I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi.
Except that he didn't. Qui Gon did, but he of course died before really starting. The only reason Obi Wan did teach Ani is because Qui Gon asked him to. But we see in TPM and AOTC that Obi Wan is not enthusiastic ever about teaching Anakin. He questions Qui Gon about it during TPM and remains ambivalent throughout AOTC even as Yoda spins the discussion to another topic.


I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.
This implies that Obi Wan found a kid with great potential and Obi Wan's pride gave him the idea that he could teach just as well as his own teacher had. However, as illustrated clearly, none of that scenario is true according to the Prequels thus far. Obi Wan did not find the boy. Obi Wan did not see how great a pilot he was. Obi Wan was never "amazed" at his Force potential. Obi Wan did not choose to teach the boy. Obi Wan did not exhibit any sense of grandeur at being able to teach Anakin.


Also, the following passages were in one of the original drafts for ROTJ, but didn't make it to screen. While non-screen items are not official canon, they do go to show that they were considered as plot or character points by Lucas at one time. The contradictions are obvious.



BEN

When I first knew him, your father was
already a great pilot. But I was amazed how
strongly the Force was with him. I took it
upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I
thought that I could instruct him just as
well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has
had terrible consequences for the galaxy.
As already discussed, the ROTJ implication is that a younger Obi Wan set out to train Anakin for reasons of pride. However, the Prequels clearly show that Obi Wan was ambivalent in agreeing to teach the boy at Qui Gon's request. His concern continues throughout the Prequels.



Luke looks into the distance, trying to comprehend all this.

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your
mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew
he would find out eventually, but we wanted
to keep you both as safe as possible, for as
long as possible. So I took you to live with
my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother
took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator
Organa, on Alderaan.
While we haven't seen Episode III yet, according to this original scenario, Anakin will have to leave Padme before learning about the pregnancy and never return to her. The Owen familial relationship is already shot per AOTC which inspires a whole new set of questions regarding just how and why Obi Wan would choose to hide baby Luke with people he doesn't know (or know about) on a planet he has only briefly visited (TPM) in a homestead which Anakin is likely to revisit (family, dead mother's grave).

The entire Prequel scenario deviates radically from the storyline that was being established by the original films. All the evidence any reasonable person needs to see it is available (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00003CXCT/qid=1100974071/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-1738228-7184054) to view at home. :)

Rocketboy
11-20-2004, 02:33 PM
I won't give that comment the respect of a response.Ummm...you just did.

Rocketboy
11-20-2004, 02:51 PM
Anakin was a good friend
We haven't seen any evidence of this at all. In TPM, Ani is a little kid and the interactions between he and Obi Wan are sparse at best. They were definitely not "friends." When we join their relationship in progress in AOTC, it is not a "good friend" relationship. At best it's a strained teacher/student arrangement throughout. No evidence? Did you watch AOTC? Sure there is tension between the two, but you don't defy the word of the Council to save your teacher. And how many people tell their teacher they are like a father to them?


When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him.
One might assume that Old Ben is referring to the Podracing. However, how would he know? He never saw it. He was stuck on the ship while the newly invented character named Qui Gon went out and found the boy. Obi Wan never had occasion to be "amazed" at how strongly the Force was with Anakin.Ben never told Luke that he saw Anakin fly anything. A human child winning a podrace and flying a Naboo starfighter (with no training) is a good indicator of how good a pilot he is and how strong the Force is with him.


I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi.
Except that he didn't. Qui Gon did, but he of course died before really starting. The only reason Obi Wan did teach Ani is because Qui Gon asked him to. But we see in TPM and AOTC that Obi Wan is not enthusiastic ever about teaching Anakin. He questions Qui Gon about it during TPM and remains ambivalent throughout AOTC even as Yoda spins the discussion to another topic.Yeah, he did. He could have told Qui-Gon "No." Plus, he told Yoda he would train Anakin even if the Council denied it. In AOTC, he seems frustrated because Anakin is headstrong and overconfident rather than unenthusiastic.


I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong.
This implies that Obi Wan found a kid with great potential and Obi Wan's pride gave him the idea that he could teach just as well as his own teacher had. He never said that he discovered Anakin. You're reading things that aren't there. The only thing he implies is that Yoda was a great teacher.


Also, the following passages were in one of the original drafts for ROTJ, but didn't make it to screen. While non-screen items are not official canon, they do go to show that they were considered as plot or character points by Lucas at one time. The contradictions are obvious. The key word there was considered. They would be contradictions IF they had been used, but they weren't, so it doesn't matter. Lucas chose not to include them for a reason.


The entire Prequel scenario deviates radically from the storyline that was being established by the original films. All the evidence any reasonable person needs to see it is available (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00003CXCT/qid=1100974071/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-1738228-7184054) to view at home. By evidence, do you mean Hayden Christensen, not Sebastian Shaw is the true spirit Anakin Skywalker, as clearly shown in the ROTJ DVD? :D

Mad Slanted Powers
11-20-2004, 03:22 PM
Obi-Wan didn't say the first time he saw Anakin was as a pilot. He just said he was already a good pilot when he first met him. Just because he didn't see Anakin in the podrace or in the Naboo fighter doesn't mean he doesn't know about it.

Before Anakin and Obi-Wan actually met, Obi-Wan analyzed the blood sample and saw the midichlorian count and was certainly amazed by that. Even in disagreeing with Qui-Gon about training him, he felt that the boy was dangerous.

Training Anakin certainly wasn't his idea, so I'll agree that does not quite line up with the OT. However, here a couple things to consider. Qui-Gon told the council he would train Anakin and that Obi-Wan was ready for the trials. Obi-Wan could have spoken out against training Anakin but instead said he was ready for the trials. That could be putting his pride first. Also, if he felt so reluctant to train Anakin, he could have agreed with Yoda rather than stubbornly insist to train him just to fulfill Qui-Gon's promise.

The parts that seem to be most contradicted are the parts that didn't make it to the film. Owen and Obi-Wan's relationship certainly is one thing. However, to say that Obi-Wan doesn't know or even know about them is probably going too far. Obi-Wan knows where Anakin is from and Anakin must have talked about his family at some point. Also, Padme has been there and knows what good people they are, so she may have had some influence.

I'll agree that the prequels didn't do a good enough job of establishing a friendly relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. The scene of them in the elevator at the beginning of AOTC was supposed to show that, but it didn't really have that much of an impact. We do hear Anakin on a couple occasions say Obi-Wan is like a father to him. That doesn't necessarily equate to a good friend type of relationship, but Anakin does seem to have appreciation and respect for Obi-Wan. He's just being pulled in another direction by the time we join the action in AOTC.

vadersvette
11-20-2004, 11:11 PM
A little side-tracked, but..does anybody know if you can save the trailer onto your computer? Usually, I can pull stuff like that out of my temporary internet files, but it wasn't there. I have lousy dial-up, and don't want to wait a half hour just to watch a minute and a half lone trailer. :confused:

Kidhuman
11-20-2004, 11:15 PM
There is a way, some sites have it for dl, and if you have AIM or MSN Messenger I can send it to you

stillakid
11-20-2004, 11:21 PM
No evidence? Did you watch AOTC? Sure there is tension between the two, but you don't defy the word of the Council to save your teacher. And how many people tell their teacher they are like a father to them?
Yes, no evidence. Yes, I saw AOTC.
He didn't defy the word of the Council to save his teacher. He was following the babe in that instance. He was ready to sit it out on Tatooine with no qualms. Only when Padme said that she was going, did Anakin "give in" and agree to go as well. It had little to do with saving anyone and more to do with him just trying to get in her pants.


Ben never told Luke that he saw Anakin fly anything. A human child winning a podrace and flying a Naboo starfighter (with no training) is a good indicator of how good a pilot he is and how strong the Force is with him. Obi Wan didn't know that Anakin was flying in a podrace. All he knew was that Qui Gon was working on getting the parts for the ship.

As for the Naboo ship, it not only took off by accident, it was on autopilot for most of the ride. When Ani did take "control" of it, it was little more than a few "let's see what this does" and "gee, this is fun" moments. His destroying the Federation ship was pure accident, both in him getting in there and then with him firing the missiles. Hardly a case for being a "great pilot."


Yeah, he did. He could have told Qui-Gon "No." Plus, he told Yoda he would train Anakin even if the Council denied it. In AOTC, he seems frustrated because Anakin is headstrong and overconfident rather than unenthusiastic.
No, he didn't. It's not that he does train Anakin that's in question. It's the manner in which it occurs. The OT states that Obi Wan finds Anakin, realizes his potential, then decides on his own to train him because he believes he can do just as good a job as his own teacher (Yoda). The Prequels show something entirely different as Qui Gon finds Anakin, Qui Gon realizes his potential, and Qui Gon makes the choice to train him. Obi Wan reluctantly goes along with the decision because of some ill-realized loyalty to Qui Gon, not because he believes he can do it "just as well as Yoda."


He never said that he discovered Anakin. You're reading things that aren't there. The only thing he implies is that Yoda was a great teacher.
The implication is there. You're ignoring what is there in order to lend support to the Prequel rewriting of the continuity. When you consider each statement on it's own, you could make the argument that Obi Wan did not discover the boy. However, in totality, Obi Wan's description of the events clearly states that he discovers Anakin (at some undetermined point), sees how great a pilot he is, connects the dots that this great piloting is because of his Force potential, then decides to train Anakin on his own believing that he can do it just as well as his own teacher (Yoda) could. This speaks to a younger Ben's immature and rash side which he later warns Luke about repeating. To have it any other way seriously undermines what the original Star Wars story was all about. Lucas didn't fully understand the story that Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan wrote for him. It seems that many so-called "fans" don't either.


The key word there was considered. They would be contradictions IF they had been used, but they weren't, so it doesn't matter. Lucas chose not to include them for a reason..
Yes, considered. But that they were in mind at all suggests that this was the train of thought. Reasons for exclusion range from rewriting of motives (as you suggest) to something as common as streamlining the story for the screen (more likely).


By evidence, do you mean Hayden Christensen, not Sebastian Shaw is the true spirit Anakin Skywalker, as clearly shown in the ROTJ DVD? :D
Actually, I was suggesting that to see the evidence all you have to do is watch the movie and actually listen to what is said without being entranced by the flashy images.

stillakid
11-20-2004, 11:36 PM
Obi-Wan didn't say the first time he saw Anakin was as a pilot. He just said he was already a good pilot when he first met him. Just because he didn't see Anakin in the podrace or in the Naboo fighter doesn't mean he doesn't know about it.
True, my intention isn't to completely exclude reasonable offscreen moments. However, if you connect the dots in Old Ben's explanation he clearly lays down a logic path which starts at him 1) finding Anakin, then 2) seeing him pilot, leading him to 3) realizing that it is the Force potential, then 4) making the choice to train him as a Jedi. Because #1 is accomplished by someone else, #2 NEVER happens, #3 only is possible because of the Midi count (we'll get to that below), and #4 doesn't really happen the way it is said in ROTJ, it is clear that the ROTJ explanation and the Prequel events are mutually exclusive. They can't both be correct, ergo a major contradiction.

If we consider the Midichlorian count sequence and suggest that this is when Obi Wan is "amazed at how strongly the Force was with him," then it is entirely reasonable to inquire as to why he didn't say this directly to Luke in that way. The situation in ROTJ was dire. Luke was the last hope...the last Jedi. Given that, not only was it imperative that Luke have the tangible training necessary to defeat the bad guys, but also that he have all the knowledge known about the Force and how to tap into it. This then begs the question of why didn't Spirit Ben tell Luke about Midichlorians ever? Why didn't Yoda? Instead of saying to Luke, "I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him" he should have said, "When I first knew your father, we measured his Midichlorian count and it was off the charts. My teacher, Qui Gon Jinn decided to train Anakin but unfortunately he was killed before he could start. I wasn't sure about it, but I reluctantly decided to honor Qui Gonn's wish. I shouldn't have."
A ridiculous monologue for sure, but far more accurate in regards to the events that unfold in the Prequels. Of course Luke would have asked "what are Midichlorians?" just like his dad did so long ago which would have led to another ridiculous explanation scene where either Yoda or Ben describe what Midichlorians are. Which, again, goes to show the distinct differences between the way professional writers construct stories and elements as we see in the OT (Katz, Huyck, and Kasdan) and the way non-writers puke their trains of thought onto the page without concern for the way it may affect everything else that happened or will happen.

stillakid
11-20-2004, 11:44 PM
Ummm...you just did.


Yeah, I know. The irony of my reply didn't escape me when I wrote it. :rolleyes:

Mad Slanted Powers
11-21-2004, 12:57 AM
However, if you connect the dots in Old Ben's explanation he clearly lays down a logic path which starts at him 1) finding Anakin, then 2) seeing him pilot, leading him to 3) realizing that it is the Force potential, then 4) making the choice to train him as a Jedi.

I will admit that after seeing the original trilogy, I had something like this in mind as well, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I had made the same assumptions that you did. But perhaps, as was said on more than one occasion in Episode I, we assumed too much. However, I didn't presume to know exactly how things would turn out. When I learned that the prequels were being made, I was excited because I would finally learn the story of what happened, not because I was going to see a story I already knew. So far, to me anyways, there is nothing contradictory on screen that can't be explained. To you, that may be just making rationalizations to cover up flaws in a bad movie. However, I could say that you are trying to find flaws in a good movie because it doesn't fit with what you had fixed in your mind for all those years. As Yoda said, we must unlearn what we have learned. Or maybe just take a cue from MST3K and repeat to ourselves "it's just a show I really should relax". Which is what I'm going to do now.

thomasandrea-call
11-21-2004, 12:20 PM
Yes, no evidence. Yes, I saw AOTC.
He didn't defy the word of the Council to save his teacher. He was following the babe in that instance. He was ready to sit it out on Tatooine with no qualms. Only when Padme said that she was going, did Anakin "give in" and agree to go as well. It had little to do with saving anyone and more to do with him just trying to get in her pants.

Obi Wan didn't know that Anakin was flying in a podrace. All he knew was that Qui Gon was working on getting the parts for the ship.

As for the Naboo ship, it not only took off by accident, it was on autopilot for most of the ride. When Ani did take "control" of it, it was little more than a few "let's see what this does" and "gee, this is fun" moments. His destroying the Federation ship was pure accident, both in him getting in there and then with him firing the missiles. Hardly a case for being a "great pilot."


No, he didn't. It's not that he does train Anakin that's in question. It's the manner in which it occurs. The OT states that Obi Wan finds Anakin, realizes his potential, then decides on his own to train him because he believes he can do just as good a job as his own teacher (Yoda). The Prequels show something entirely different as Qui Gon finds Anakin, Qui Gon realizes his potential, and Qui Gon makes the choice to train him. Obi Wan reluctantly goes along with the decision because of some ill-realized loyalty to Qui Gon, not because he believes he can do it "just as well as Yoda."


The implication is there. You're ignoring what is there in order to lend support to the Prequel rewriting of the continuity. When you consider each statement on it's own, you could make the argument that Obi Wan did not discover the boy. However, in totality, Obi Wan's description of the events clearly states that he discovers Anakin (at some undetermined point), sees how great a pilot he is, connects the dots that this great piloting is because of his Force potential, then decides to train Anakin on his own believing that he can do it just as well as his own teacher (Yoda) could. This speaks to a younger Ben's immature and rash side which he later warns Luke about repeating. To have it any other way seriously undermines what the original Star Wars story was all about. Lucas didn't fully understand the story that Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan wrote for him. It seems that many so-called "fans" don't either.


Yes, considered. But that they were in mind at all suggests that this was the train of thought. Reasons for exclusion range from rewriting of motives (as you suggest) to something as common as streamlining the story for the screen (more likely).


Actually, I was suggesting that to see the evidence all you have to do is watch the movie and actually listen to what is said without being entranced by the flashy images.


You have way to much time on your hands. Although you say you are not picking apart the third movie I beg to differ with you. I have read your rants and would like to say, If you have this amount of negativity without seeing the movie then dont go and see it. It truely puzzle's me when some one claims to be a Star Wars fans but complains because it is not to their expectations. The poll asked a simple question and for you to carry on like this over three pages is no longer about you expressing your thoughts as it becomes more about you picking apart something that you have only seen a 2 minute segment of. Get a life relax and take a deep breath.

Slicker
11-21-2004, 01:06 PM
It truely puzzle's me when some one claims to be a Star Wars fans but complains because it is not to their expectations. I'm not gonna jump into the middle of this argument but just because your a SW fan doesn't mean that you have to like every aspect of the Saga. I personally am not a big fan of AOTC but then again I don't go on and on about not liking it. When Ep. III comes out we'll see if Stilla likes it or not.

JediTricks
11-21-2004, 04:12 PM
A simple Yes or No and a short reason why would suffice (like the others did), not a massive nit-picky post about the little things that are "nonsensical," when you haven't even seen the movie. Rocketboy, don't tell others how to post in here, if you don't like what Stilla has to say, don't read his post, but he has the right to post it, especially when my opening post asks for people's discussions on what they did or didn't like about the trailer. You can bicker with him about the trailer, but please don't tell anybody else how to post.

JediTricks
11-21-2004, 04:32 PM
There wasn't much of a flow from element to the next.... The images used weren't terribly interesting or compelling.I felt the same way as well.


What's with Hayden's eyes (http://www.sporteyes.com/crazyeyes.htm)? That one really stuck with me as totally not working, it didn't fit with what we see of Vader later, nor of other Sith like Sidious or Tyrannus, and it seemed cheap to me.


The shot of the volcano is gratutiously drawn out about 4 seconds longer than necessary. I haven't been able to figure out why they did that. I think the idea was to lend weight to the volcano planet without actually showing anything important going on there, but it didn't track that well for me either, especially with the walking chairs from Ep 1 which seemed out of place.


Unrelated and nonsensical images are placed over Ben's description of what we were told would happen. That's another one where I agree with ya, it just seemed out of place to say "Vader helped hunt down the Jedi" and then show Ani on a swoop bike in the Tatooine desert - where there are NO other Jedi at the time - looking for his mommy. That and the crazy eyes stuck with me the most in terms of negative aspects of the trailer.



No evidence? Did you watch AOTC? Sure there is tension between the two, but you don't defy the word of the Council to save your teacher. And how many people tell their teacher they are like a father to them? I was one of the folks who argued in the Ep 2 forum that the "he was a good friend" thing doesn't play out in AOTC. Throughout the film, I don't see any evidence of a friendship, Ani eventually says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him, but that's not friendship, and certainly doesn't sound like the type of relationship Ben was describing in the OT.


Yeah, he did. He could have told Qui-Gon "No." But that's not taking it upon himself, that's being charged with the duty, a different circumstance.


Vadersvette, I believe the file is streaming, not cached, which makes it much harder to save.

stillakid
11-21-2004, 09:54 PM
I will admit that after seeing the original trilogy, I had something like this in mind as well, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I had made the same assumptions that you did. But perhaps, as was said on more than one occasion in Episode I, we assumed too much. However, I didn't presume to know exactly how things would turn out. When I learned that the prequels were being made, I was excited because I would finally learn the story of what happened, not because I was going to see a story I already knew. So far, to me anyways, there is nothing contradictory on screen that can't be explained. To you, that may be just making rationalizations to cover up flaws in a bad movie. However, I could say that you are trying to find flaws in a good movie because it doesn't fit with what you had fixed in your mind for all those years. As Yoda said, we must unlearn what we have learned. Or maybe just take a cue from MST3K and repeat to ourselves "it's just a show I really should relax". Which is what I'm going to do now.


I'd first like to say that I like the way you think. Really. :)

But I'd also like to say that TPM and AOTC are bad movies anyway without bringing issues of continuity into the discussion. I think overall that what I'm pointing out is vastly misunderstood. It seems as though the perception of others is that I was looking for a story in which there were absolutely no surprises (given that we already know more or less what is supposed to happen). However I don't think that it was an impossible task for Lucas to give us the story that his continuity had established and embellish said story with exciting surprises within it.

According to the OT, we know that Obi Wan Kenobi finds a guy named Anakin, realizes his Force potential, then screws things up beyond belief by choosing to train him because he thinks he can do it just as well as his only teacher, Yoda. To follow that structure implies a bit of rigidity and predictability, however there is a lot of room for exciting details in order for that plot to occur. It's like the movie Titanic. We all know that the ship sinks, but the excitement and drama is built for the audience within the details. Cameron didn't change the outcome of the event just because it would be boring for an audience who already knew how it would end. Lucas didn't need to either.

stillakid
11-21-2004, 10:04 PM
You have way to much time on your hands. Although you say you are not picking apart the third movie I beg to differ with you. I have read your rants and would like to say, If you have this amount of negativity without seeing the movie then dont go and see it. It truely puzzle's me when some one claims to be a Star Wars fans but complains because it is not to their expectations. The poll asked a simple question and for you to carry on like this over three pages is no longer about you expressing your thoughts as it becomes more about you picking apart something that you have only seen a 2 minute segment of. Get a life relax and take a deep breath.

I have way too much time on my hands? I wish. It really doesn't take a lot of time to watch a movie, engage the brain and do a scant amount of critical thinking and review. Though I suppose it might take some people a bit more effort.

But you also have to realize that creative writing is a large part of my life. "Picking apart" plot holes and such is something I've done a lot with my own writing and with the screenplays of others. Suffice it to say, for me, it doesn't take an inordinate amount of time as you imply.

I'd also suggest that you take a breath and chill out. I'm as calm as I could possibly be. :) I get a real kick out of the way some people get their panties in a bunch when someone critiques their hobby, be it movies, quilting, or religion. See, I love the original films and the continuity they established for the Prequels. I don't love the way Lucas is ignoring the original films and the spirit that inspired a generation of young filmmakers. Only a true fan would care enough about the saga idea that they would take the time to talk about the positives and the negatives.

I also haven't really talked about Episode III either. Clearly you haven't really been reading what I've written. Any comments I've made about that film are relative to the trailer itself. Everything else is specific to the OT and the already released Prequel films. It's pretty amusing the lengths some of you are going to to try to discredit an opposing voice. Laughable really. lol

But I'll ask this: why is your post only about trying to discredit me while you fail to actually post regarding the topic itself? Who exactly has too much time on their hands, eh? :ermm:

Mad Slanted Powers
11-21-2004, 11:06 PM
I'd first like to say that I like the way you think. Really. :)

Thank you.



But I'd also like to say that TPM and AOTC are bad movies anyway without bringing issues of continuity into the discussion.
I guess I'm just in the minority on this one as it seems a lot of people hated TPM and AOTC. I actually thought TPM was pretty good. However, it's hard to be objective since I like Star Wars and had been looking forward to seeing it. I didn't like AOTC as much as TPM, but I still enjoyed it. After viewing the Episode III trailer, I have a feeling I'll like it better than AOTC.


It seems as though the perception of others is that I was looking for a story in which there were absolutely no surprises (given that we already know more or less what is supposed to happen). However I don't think that it was an impossible task for Lucas to give us the story that his continuity had established and embellish said story with exciting surprises within it. ... It's like the movie Titanic. We all know that the ship sinks, but the excitement and drama is built for the audience within the details. Cameron didn't change the outcome of the event just because it would be boring for an audience who already knew how it would end. Lucas didn't need to either.
Agreed. We still know pretty much how it ends. The fun is finding out how we get to that point.



According to the OT, we know that Obi Wan Kenobi finds a guy named Anakin, realizes his Force potential, then screws things up beyond belief by choosing to train him because he thinks he can do it just as well as his only teacher, Yoda.
I don't remember Ben saying Yoda was his only teacher, nor did he say exactly that he found Anakin. I guess I's just ignernt.

Anyway, the trailer looks cool and I look forward to seeing more. My apologies for my role in leading this thread off topic.

Rocketboy
11-22-2004, 12:09 AM
Rocketboy, don't tell others how to post in here, I didn't. If it sounded like it, I didn't mean it to. Not what I was trying to do. Annoyance is to blame.

if you don't like what Stilla has to say, don't read his postYeah, I plan it. :D

stillakid
11-22-2004, 12:20 PM
I don't remember Ben saying Yoda was his only teacher, nor did he say exactly that he found Anakin. I guess I's just ignernt.

Nah. You just forgot. ;) It's in The Empire Strikes Back:


BEN
You will go to the Dagobah system.

LUKE
Dagobah system?

BEN
There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed
me.

The image of Ben fades, revealing a lone Tauntaun rider approaching from the windswept horizon.

:)

Mad Slanted Powers
11-22-2004, 07:37 PM
Nah. You just forgot. ;) It's in The Empire Strikes Back:


BEN
You will go to the Dagobah system.

LUKE
Dagobah system?

BEN
There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed
me.

The image of Ben fades, revealing a lone Tauntaun rider approaching from the windswept horizon.

:)

I guess that is just an article of faith. :D

stillakid
11-22-2004, 07:41 PM
Inor did he say exactly that he found Anakin.

Oh, I forgot to address this as well. It has less to do with Obi Wan being the one to find Anakin and everything to do with Obi Wan being the one to A)discover Anakin's potential, then B)being the one to choose to train him as a Jedi.

For all intents and purposes, the story should have gone down more like this:

Obi Wan is out on some random mission or something as the Clone Wars are heating up (Palpatine is already knee-deep in his nefarious plans). Obi Wan just happens to cross paths with some teenaged kid who is a pilot of a space freighter. The ship they are on runs into trouble (asteroids or bandits or something) and this kid, Anakin, effortlessly illustrates his piloting prowess by getting away without a scratch. During this, Obi Wan "senses" the Force working within the kid even though the kid doesn't realize it himself.

Obi Wan knows that the Jedi will be in need of more trained recruits so he "takes it upon himself to train him as a Jedi" thinking that he can do it just as well as Yoda. Why not take Anakin back to the Jedi building? The Clone Wars are in their beginning stages and all the formal training is called off. There just isn't time for it. So Obi Wan brings Anakin along for the ride as he does his thing.

And just like Luke, with accelerated training comes the danger of going to the "dark side." Where Luke resists, Anakin fails and succumbs to the temptation.

All of that could happen amidst everything else during the whole of the Prequels. And of course, it ends with the audience never knowing about the pregnancy, Anakin never knowing about the pregnancy, with the audience believing that Anakin dies at the hands of Obi Wan.

Whalla! Just that easy. The rest is details. :)

stillakid
11-22-2004, 07:46 PM
I guess that is just an article of faith. :D


:confused: Nah, see "Faith" is for stuff you don't know. I KNOW what the script says. I KNOW what the actor said. I don't need faith to tell me what the intention of the story is.

However I do need faith to believe that Lucas didn't intend that the continuity of the OT to be what it says it is upfront. The more likely explanation (and one he himself has backed up) is that he is a lousy writer. He didn't understand the original storyline and proceeded to shoddily construct the Prequel films without concern for continuity. To believe otherwise relies on serious rationalization or faith that George never intended us to believe what was written so long ago. I guess you pick your poison and run with it. :ermm:

Mad Slanted Powers
11-22-2004, 10:33 PM
I just wanted to make a pun out of 'the' being an article, but the religious analogy works well. Many people interpret things in religion differently, even though they are reading the same words. I choose to believe that Ben said 'the' out of conveniece for the situation. It was easier than trying to explain to a near dead Luke the whole situation about Qui-Gon. This is consistent with the prequels. However, in your belief system, the prequels are the Apocrypha. Thus, the Great Star Wars Schism that plagues us in these dark times.

JediTricks
11-23-2004, 12:07 AM
Let's try to stay on-topic folks, we are still talking in a thread about the trailer.

bobafrett
11-23-2004, 09:22 PM
I really enjoyed it. But then I really enjoyed the trailers for Episodes I & II only to be left a bit dissapointed with what ended up on screen, unlike when I saw the trailer for Epsode V ESB, I loved the trailer, and the movie. I just think episodes I & II had sub par acting, and super lame dialog. I'm hoping that EP III does not disappoint.