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Tycho
01-06-2005, 02:21 AM
Isn't this great? Now everyone can have as many Clones as they want.

I hope they do this with E3 Clones - and early into 2005 announce it, too.

Also, if Hasbro will do this with paint variations, why not Imperial Officers with head variations.

My suggestion is do 5 heads with no hats.

1) blonde
2) brunette
3) Asian
4) African
5) old dude


Then, ship these with 5 bodies and appropriate hats / helmets in packs of

Imperial Officers (grey uniform)
Imperial Officers (black uniform)
Death Star Troopers
Rebel Fleet Troopers
Hoth Rebel Soldiers
Endor Rebel Soldiers
Bespin Security
Cloud Car Pilots
X-wing Pilots
Y-wing Pilots (ROTJ helmet variation)
B-wing Pilots
A-wing pilots
Naboo Royal Guards
Naboo Royal Security
Coruscant Senate Guards


Wouldn't that be the right direction for Star Wars to head?

sith_killer_99
01-06-2005, 06:47 AM
I was gonna do a post along this line last night. Here are a few I would like to see:

Sandtroopers:

Orange Pauldron Clean
Black Pauldron Clean
White Pauldron Clean
Gray Pauldron Clean

Orange Pauldron Dirty
Black Pauldron Dirty
White Pauldron Dirty
Gray Pauldron Dirty

I'll add more later, gotta get to work. lol

X13VADER
01-06-2005, 11:47 AM
Well You Know... They Could Do That After All The Movies Are Done.

After They Sold All Of The Things For "kids". Then As Only The Collectors Are Buying Down The Road They Can Make Army Builders And Various Faces And Heads.

sith_killer_99
01-06-2005, 01:03 PM
Boy, talk about the same wave length. I would love to see Hasbro come out with a troop builder line after the last movies dies down, like "Troops"! They could really concentrate on Army Building with variations, it could sweep across all 6 movies, everything from Stormtroopers to Battle Droids to Clones!!!

I would like to see it done very much like the current, OCT/POTC lines with the black background and silver bars, but go for the Canadian "starburst" background!

That would be sweet. But Hasbro would have to remember to pack the figures evenly in the cases. ie one case of "dirty Sandtroopers" would have 3 Gray, 3 Orange, 3 Black and 3 White Pauldrons.

Tycho
01-06-2005, 02:07 PM
Actually, the ranks bother me.

Someone military, like SithKiller correct me as to numbers, but in terms of toys we are dealing with 4-packs here.

But that's why the packs should be just the same rank:


1 Commander / OOM-9 (yellow markings in SW)

4 Captains (red markings in SW)

8 Lieuteniants (blue markings in SW)

16 Sergeants (green markings in SW)


That way, you'd have :

a bunch of white grunts in...
2 squads in... (16 green)
8 Platoons in ...(8 blue)
4 companies in... (4 red)
1 corps (1 yellow)

I may have those military divisions wrong. That's what maybe Sithkiller could help me with.

Army
Division
Regiment
Corps
Company
Platoon
Squad ??????

Anyway, with Sandtroopers it might work:

a bunch of gray grunts
2 squads in... (16 black)
8 Platoons in ...(8 orange)
4 companies in... (4 white)
1 corps (a black uniformed Imperial officer)

Imperial fans help me out since I'm not sure what sandtroopers would wear or if I got those colors right.

Anyway, with Hasbro packaging, the problem is that (let's just talk droids and clones)...

The "realistic" army-builders would not want a lot of yellows. If packed evenly, they'd sit and peg-warm. (probably less likely because less kids will be realistic).

But then a case of say 6 4-packs might want to be broken down like:

1 Yellow
1 red
1 blue
1 green
1 white

0 yellow
1 red
1 blue
1 green
2 white

0 yellow
0 red
1 blue
2 green
3 white

0 yellow
0 red
0 blue
2 green
4 white


In army building this would work. In the world of scalping, the "sudden hot pieces" would become the "ultra rare yellow or red packs."

Of course, Hasbro can always cycle through these 4 cases, and ship the first one again, going through the order cycle repeatedly, but still producing less of cases 1 and 2.

Val Da Car
01-06-2005, 03:28 PM
btw what are the rankings

Orange is Sgt
White is Corporal

what are the other two?

thanks in advance.

VDC


I was gonna do a post along this line last night. Here are a few I would like to see:

Sandtroopers:

Orange Pauldron Clean
Black Pauldron Clean
White Pauldron Clean
Gray Pauldron Clean

Orange Pauldron Dirty
Black Pauldron Dirty
White Pauldron Dirty
Gray Pauldron Dirty

I'll add more later, gotta get to work. lol

sith_killer_99
01-06-2005, 09:40 PM
Current Command structure, which has been in place since WWII is as follows:

Squad
Platoon
Company
Batallion
Brigade
Division
Corp
Army

Overall structure varies. In general here is what you will see (this is a loose description):

Enlisted Structure

1 Team = 1 Sergeant (E-5) in charge of 3 Jr. Enlisted (E-4 and below).
1 Squad = 1 Staff Sergeant in charge of 2 Teams.
1 Platoon = 1 Sergeant First Class (E-7) in charge of 4 Squads.
1 Company = 1 First Sergeant (E-8) in charge of 1-4 Platoons.
1 Batallion = 1 Command Sergeant Major (E-9) in charge of 1-4 Companies.

The rank of Corporal is a bit different. The Corporal is an NCO, but they are in the grade of E-4 (ie Jr. Enlisted). In some cases a Specialist (E-4) recieves a latteral promotion to Corporal. This is done for different reasons. Now keep in mind that this is an Army thing, and rank varies by Branch of Service ie Marine Corp, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard.

Officer Structure

1 Platoon = 1 Second Lieutenant (O-1) or 1 First Lieutenant (O-2)
1 Company = 1 Captain (O-3)
1 Batallion = 1 Major (O-4) or 1 Lieutenant Colonel (O-5) or 1 Colonel (O-6)
1 Brigade = 1 Colonel (O-6) or 1 Brigadier General (O-7) one star or 1 Major General (O-8) two star

etc.

But there are a lot of gray ares not covered in the basic structure. There are 9 "grades" of enlisted soldier and 9 "grades" of officers. Lucas appears to have melded all the enlisted into 2 groups: White Clones which represent Jr. enlisted (E-4 and below) Green Clones which represent all NCO's Sergeant through Command Sergeant Major. Then he has 3 colors for the officers Blue for Lieutenants, Red of Captains and Yellow for Commanders...which isn't really a rank in the Army, it's more of a title. A Captain can in fact be a "Company Commander" yet Generals are often Commanders of Brigades, Divisions, Corps, and the Army itself. Like I said, lots of gray areas...

The NCO support chain is designed to mirror the officer chain. The enlisted (Jr. enlisted as well as NCO's) are the ones on the ground, checking ID's, digging trenches, setting up camp, etc. The Officers are the policy makes that say where it all happens, etc. Battlefield commanders assign missions and taskings to work towards the ultimate goal. The NCO support chain is designed to provide officers with limited experience the benefit of their many years of real world experience.

Is this all confusing enough for you?

In any event you will generally see a disproportionatly large number of enlisted to officers on the "battlefield". But T has the rigft idea:


1 Commander / OOM-9 (yellow markings in SW)

4 Captains (red markings in SW)

8 Lieuteniants (blue markings in SW)

16 Sergeants (green markings in SW)


Seems just about right. I would add about 50 basic White Clones to the number...ie "grunts".

However, I still like the idea of even numbers of colored Clones, Sandtroopers, etc. It just makes finding the variations simpler. Besides, I don't really look at these and say "Hmmm, is this really accurate, would you have X number of Black Pauldron Sandtroopers with X number of Gray Pauldrons?" I just like seeing all the different colors represented. :D

Tycho
01-07-2005, 03:46 AM
SithKiller, that was an awesome post. Thank you!

Now we just have to have Sandtroopers' rank colors explained.


By the way, in Star Wars:

1 Platoon = 1 Second Lieutenant (O-1) or 1 First Lieutenant (O-2)
1 Company = 1 Captain (O-3)
1 Batallion = 1 Major (O-4) or 1 Lieutenant Colonel (O-5) or 1 Colonel (O-6)

JEDI & Padawan1 Brigade = 1 Colonel (O-6) or 1 Brigadier General (O-7) one star or 1 Major General (O-8) two star

I think the black uniformed Imperial officers replaced the Jedi as Brigadier Generals, and then the higher-ups like Gen. Veers wore grey.

In the Imperial Navy, it's harder to sort it out.

Death Star Troopers are the enlisted grunts, no doubt.
Black uniformed officers hold sway here as well I think.
Grey uniforms are the top brass, but with low ranks of their own.


And if you're some kind of Grand Moff, well then everyone kisses your ...

jedi master sal
01-07-2005, 12:56 PM
If you go by the Naval Officers names (I'm a Navy veteran, BTW), then the names make compete sense.

A Lieutenant can be either an O-2 or O-3 (Lieutenant Junior Grade (Lt. J.G. for short) and Lieutenant, respectively in the Navy OR 2nd Lieutenant O-1 or 1st Lieutenant O-2 in the Army) Basically the Lieutenant is the lowest grade Officer for the clones.
A Captain is an O-3 (in the Army but in the Navy is an O-6, in this case Lucas is using the Army ranking)
A Commander is an O-5 or equivalent to a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army.

To give an example of what a clone army might look like starting with ONE Yellow Clone Commander, (and for the sake of simplicity and Lucas taking liberties with rank) we can come up with a rank structure for clones as such:

Commander (Yellow Clone)-1 having 4 captains under him (BATTALION)
Captains (Red Clone)-4 having 2 Lieutenants under each of them (COMPANY)
Lieutenants (Blue Clone)-8 having 2-4 Sergeants under each of them (weíll make it 2 for this example though it could easily be 4) (PLATOON)
Sergeants (Green Clone)-16 who have 6-8 White Clones under each of them (For this exercise we will say 8) (SQUAD)
White Clones-128

So again thatís:
1 Yellow (Battalion Commander)
4 Red (Company Commanders)
8 Blue (Platoon Leaders)
16 Green (Squad Leaders)
128 White (Grunts)

for a total of 157 clones of varying rank making up a complete complement of clones.

This does not include Biker Clones or ARC Troopers.

Biker Clones would be a company unto themselves. The command structure would be the same but the numbers would be less in each section.

The ARC troopers have a wholly different command structure. With the Comics only showing the Blue Clones and the Animated show showing Red, Blue and White, we can only guess where their rank falls. Though Iíve heard that the colors are or equal rank to the regular clones. (Though since these are of a higher mind capacity, Iíd think it would be an insult if you were a White ARC to be compared to a typical white grunt clone)

Alright, that was quite nerdy...or was it. It was an excercise in military ranking.

Also, those numbers don't include Administration Staff, Cooks, medical personel and other Ancillary Staff, but that's not needed for this excercise. (I don't see there being a need for a Secretarial Clone any time soon. ha ha)

-Sal

evenflow
01-07-2005, 01:23 PM
These box sets are awesome, but a bit pricey. I couldn't pass up on the color box though.

Tycho
01-07-2005, 02:05 PM
Thanks again for these great updates JediMasterSal!




Also, those numbers don't include Administration Staff, Cooks, medical personel and other Ancillary Staff, but that's not needed for this excercise. (I don't see there being a need for a Secretarial Clone any time soon. ha ha)

-Sal

I heard that Dexter Jettster applied for the job of Clone Army Chef ;) with WA-7 and Hermionne Bagwa as his support staff.

mastermatt24
01-11-2005, 07:06 PM
I know I have a guide sheet that says what all of the colors are. If I have time ill look through my death star sourcebook and post the imperial structure.

Val Da Car
01-11-2005, 08:03 PM
Ditto on the Thanks to both JediMasterSal & SithKiller.....now that the rankings are finalized I will need to rethink the 30 Red Clone troopers I have.

Hellboy
01-12-2005, 05:36 PM
Initially I was going to pass on these Clone Trooper sets because I've already got so many from the individually carded releases and 3-packs opened already. Then I saw the packaging, did the math, scratched my head and succumbed to my army building weakness by spending $300. :crazed: I figured I could always change my mind since these aren't due out until May but the more I think about them the more I want the sets. After all they are what I've been hoping Hasbro would release from the beginning I just wish I didn't spend so much on the other versions that came before the SA Clone packs.

I'm in agreement with you guys that it would be great if these sets were successful enough to warrant Hasbro doing similar assortments with other SW troops. I'm sure the kids in Tycho's neck of the woods would sure appreciate it since he would no longer need to go on army building benders purging stores of their entire inventory. ;)

Tycho
01-13-2005, 09:47 AM
I'm sure the kids in Tycho's neck of the woods would sure appreciate it since he would no longer need to go on army building benders purging stores of their entire inventory.

Yeah, but they are not the E3 Clones...

I've debated using E2 version CW multi-pack troops for my E3 scenes, just because I have 35 extras or so (not my SAs, but 3-pack ones).

Not sure what I'll do. I'll buy E3s initially. I'll let folks here know if I'm going to give them up (at cost - I won't scalp). On another note, I might be interested in selling (at cost) my E2s from 3-packs (they are mostly still sealed, mint on card).

My decision will be made probably after I see the comic-book adaptation of ROTS (due a month before the movie at least).

There are several factors that may influence my decision- most of it based on the visual info I can get in the picture book.

jedi master sal
01-13-2005, 03:54 PM
Tycho, I hope you'll give me serious consideration for those clones. You know I'm an army builder and we've been members and fellow MODS for sometime... Fire off a PM to me if you choose to get rid of them. You know they'll have a good home with me...

-Sal

mastermatt24
01-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Not sure what I'll do.
I had an extra preposed clone from of my 3 packs and I turned him into a E3 clone: Took the newer Stormtrooper head put some scuply for the head ridge (ruined the first head in the oven.. :rolleyes: it was before I knew that you coulld boil the stuff) and then I dremeled a little hole on the bottom of the head like it was on the clone head; painted it blue like the one that was in Insider, and then I gave it a black wash for weathering. I think it turned out really neat but I dont really think that you want to do this to 35 clones.. But maybe try it, you might like it! :D

Val Da Car
01-22-2005, 11:39 PM
Tycho,

Can you put me the list if you decide to retire your E2 clones.

I have really thought about it and I am going to pickup a just a few of the E3 clones to just have but I am army/scene building with OTC Stormtroopers and E2 Clone troopers.

I am pulling the trigger on the EE sets & case since it will encourage me to open the only CW Super Art troopers I have. The preposed troopers from the 3 pack I do like but I have not warmed up to them yet.

Thx

VDC.


Yeah, but they are not the E3 Clones...

I've debated using E2 version CW multi-pack troops for my E3 scenes, just because I have 35 extras or so (not my SAs, but 3-pack ones).

Not sure what I'll do. I'll buy E3s initially. I'll let folks here know if I'm going to give them up (at cost - I won't scalp). On another note, I might be interested in selling (at cost) my E2s from 3-packs (they are mostly still sealed, mint on card).

My decision will be made probably after I see the comic-book adaptation of ROTS (due a month before the movie at least).

There are several factors that may influence my decision- most of it based on the visual info I can get in the picture book.

Tycho
01-23-2005, 03:49 AM
In the dioramas section, I started test-setting my Kashyyyk scene from Episode 3.

If you are not spoiler sensitive (since it contains a plot spoiler) go ahead and view it and let me know how you think things are looking and whether I should buy the E3 clones for the scene or if I can get away with what I'm doing at 3 3/4" scale since they're so small.

I'd ask that you comment in that thread since this is off-topic here.

Customs-Dioramas Forum. You'll see it. Spoiler warning applies!

Val Da Car
01-23-2005, 09:54 AM
After viewing your dry run I am leaning more towards buying the EE clones for two reasons.

1. Better Articulation and no "action features" (c'mon pressing legs together for quick draw).

2. Cost. Buy the time you buy the quantity you want for your scene (or mine for that matter) the price for both will require just about the same amount (even for frieght to me in Wisconsin).

just my $.02

Val Da Car
01-23-2005, 09:57 AM
see picture for comparison of Votc/ROTS/CW troopers

Plain troopers are plain troopers to me but the fact you can pose the EE ones better and the minimal difference in articulation and the legwork it will save me is work some time and $$$ to me.

Val Da Car
01-23-2005, 10:02 AM
ok...so the ROTS comes with a rifle & hand weapon.

the EE only comes with the pistol.

Tycho
01-23-2005, 11:34 AM
Val da Car, I haven't given you a direct answer to your question. I hate it when politicians do that, so I'll spill it all out.

JediMasterSal asked first - and for all of my 3-packs I guess. You asked next, after I offered him the "if I don't end up using them deal." So, my answer to you is "yes, if he turns them down or has any 'leavings' he doesn't want."

I have about:

3 3-packs with the yellow commander w. macrobinoculars
2 3-packs with the blue lieutenant standing-firing (1 IS OPEN FOR THE TEST-SET)
1 3-pack with a green kneeling Sgt.
5 3-packs with all white troopers

Yellow and blue ranked Clones from CW 2-packs with Yoda, Anakin - Anakin is open and used in my "Ansion scene."

A blue ARC Trooper I didn't use yet.


Yes, with 3-packs, poseability is limited, but I did everything I wanted with the Clones' poses in my test-set scene I linked to on the last page. There's one SA Clone being lifted up and hurled by Senator Yarua which I used for additional poseability.

By most accounts, inspite of the quick draw feature, the ROTS Clone will be completely poseable (for the most part). That means bending knees I think. No one knows just yet.

The picture you posted VAL DA CAR, clearly illustrates the difference in Clones.

My question is more that "In my test-set, are the 3 3/4" guys too small - for what (with vehicles) will become one huge 6 foot scene to notice the difference, especially if I keep their heads turned in the display?

I mean, if not, presumably I can get about $132 for my 3-packs, which were $11.99 each I think, - the prices are still on some, if JediMasterSal wants to buy them all.

In turn, I can use the money to buy about 23 ROTS clones. -About 10 less Clones than I'd have now, thereby needing to spend at $60 to recapture the same amount of clones - and likely needing more to complete my ROTS scenes...

JediMasterSal, I think we may have a deal. That doesn't work out too bad for me. I can see I'm not going to have enough Clones for ROTS anyway.

I still want to see if they show BOTH kinds of Clones in ROTS as the Republic "phases in" the new kinds of Clones. Recent comics have shown both kinds - but in different issues.

Therefore, without clear movie-pictures or the comic, it's hard to tell if the new clones have been phased in all the way to the Outer Rim yet.

JMS, what do you think about our deal? (and that I opened 2 3-packs to test set them, but their packaging was kept neat and "resealable" for shipment).

VDC, what would you do if I could give up some of mine for you now?

Val Da Car
01-24-2005, 02:20 PM
Tycho,

No rush on them on my account. JMS asked first and I am fine with that. I wanted to point out the minor details from the Clone Wars preposed and the SA Clone trooper with the ROTS trooper coming out I wanted to look closer at the options with them.

VDC

jedi master sal
01-28-2005, 09:56 AM
Tycho, a PM will be forthcoming about a deal.

Val Da Car
01-28-2005, 10:37 PM
:cry:

oh well.......now I want the EE clones sooner!