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The 'Xir
01-10-2005, 04:48 PM
OK, so what d'y'all think about this new spoiler (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/news/?m=show&id=30888)? It kinda throws the whole disappearing body non disappearing body theory out the window!!! So if it doesn't matter if the body disappears or not, or matter if you die knowing your death or being suprised by it, then what the heck IS the explanation for why, Anakin, Ben, Yoda and now Qui-Gon were able to pass on to the spiritual realm? :confused:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-10-2005, 05:02 PM
This really will shock me, if it turns out to be true. I thought Liam wasn't too keen on SW after his bluescreen experience with TPM, but then he shows up for a cast photo, now this. I'm really waiting for an explanation as to how ghosts come about.

Remember in AOTC, though, that Qui-Gon yelled out, "Anakin! Anakin! Noooo!" So he did survive in the spirit world somehow. I guess we'll see.

Slicker
01-10-2005, 08:44 PM
Are you guys forgetting about Vader. His body didn't disappear yet he still showed up in spirit form. Even after he was slow roasted by his "loving" son.

The 'Xir
01-10-2005, 09:20 PM
Yeah but that's always been in debate! I don't remember if it told in the novelization of RotJ, But I know there has been forum debates here as to whether or not his body was in the suit at the time of his funeral pyre! So only going by what we've seen in the movies, we have to assume his body was in the suit, because we never actually saw it disapppear on screen!
So you have Qui-Gon and Anakin burned on a funeral pyre, and Ben and Yoda disappearing! Qui-Gon was the only one of the four that didn't expect his death, yet now all four of them have ghosts that maintain their human likeness in the afterlife! I have know Idea what to make of that!!! :confused:

And does this mean that Lucas is now going to redo the redo's of the redo's of the OTC so the final scene in RotJ will have Qui-Gons' ghost too! :crazed:
Luke,"Goodbye Father! Thank you Ben. Thank you Master Yoda. an'...I'm sorry I've never met you before, who the hell are you anyways" :ermm:

Sith Lord 0498
01-10-2005, 10:11 PM
OK, so what d'y'all think about this new spoiler (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/news/?m=show&id=30888)? It kinda throws the whole disappearing body non disappearing body theory out the window!!! So if it doesn't matter if the body disappears or not, or matter if you die knowing your death or being suprised by it, then what the heck IS the explanation for why, Anakin, Ben, Yoda and now Qui-Gon were able to pass on to the spiritual realm? :confused:

Perhaps it's not something that can be attained by just any Jedi or Sith. Based on the three ghosts we know of and now Qui-Gon, it really seems the common thread amongst them is the prophecy of the Chosen One. Anakin is the Chosen One, Yoda trained his son (and w/o that training, Luke never would've been in the throne room to help his father fulfill the prophecy at the last moment), Obi-Wan trained Anakin (giving him his power in a sense), and finally Qui-Gon discovered Anakin and started it all. It makes sense considering the prophecy is the only major plot element that hasn't been deeply explored yet.

And I know that there have been others who were ghosts (namely Exar Kun) but that's strictly EU, and Lucas can contradict it if he wants so that's not a factor in this.

sith_killer_99
01-11-2005, 06:30 AM
Well, based on the AOTC novel, and from what I have been able to gather the whole "spirit form" is a relatively new thing.

As far as the Jedi were concerned once a Jedi dies they become one with the force and there is no way to distinguish themselves, that is why Yoda was surprised to hear Qui-Gon's voice in AOTC.

It seems to follow that Yoda, after hearing Qui-Gon, decides to follow-up on this unique phenomenon. I believe Yoda will discover a way to make contact with Qui-Gon or that Qui-Gon will find a way to contact him, possibly even Obi-Wan and Anakin. This is where/how they learn about the "spirit" thing. Probably they discover a way to "fade away" thus expanding on what Qui-Gon was able to do.

But at this point it's really all just speculation. :D

evenflow
01-11-2005, 10:21 AM
Well I really hope its true. I wanted him to show up in AOTC, so this is the chance. I hope he pops up with some words of wisdom and perhaps a little explanation of how and why.

jedi master sal
01-11-2005, 11:08 AM
A thoery that's been out for a little while (before this spoiler was verified) was that Qui-gon taught Yoda about the whole blue ghostie spirit thing, during the clone wars. Yoda in turn quickly taught Obi-wan and both had time to learn more of it during there almost two decades long self-exile. It could eb even more possible when considering this that Qui-gon spoke not only to Yoda, but Obi-wan as well or more because of their relationship, during the seclusion years. Anakin came to know of it in passing with Obi-wan and Yoda and while not actively seeking out how to do it during his years as Vader, it never totally went from his memory. Because he is the chosen one, he is more able to draw upon the force and make himself into a blue ghostie, so short after turning back to the light side.

Elliejabbapop
01-11-2005, 02:54 PM
I think it would be nice to have Liam back. Everyone back again at once!!!:)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Then again, they haven't said anything one way or the other, even though it seems as though he will come back.

In Chapter 19 of the Clone Wars series, Qui-Gon flashes to Anakin, as do Obi-Wan and Yoda (who are obviously not yet dead). Is this perhaps a sign of things to come, or was it simply a montage of Anakin's masters being in shock?

ronhudy
01-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Ben and Yoda both died voluntarily...knew it was their time. Qui-Gon and Vader(Anakin) died in battle...perhaps they didn't have time to "prepare" for their moment of passing. Or...perhaps Lucas just mixed it up for the hell of it. :D

adultstarwarsfreak
01-11-2005, 11:03 PM
As a fan, you should know the #1 rule...Just when we think we have it figured out, Lucas whams us with another revelation!!! Am I right?

The 'Xir
01-12-2005, 01:35 AM
lol So true ASWF, too true!! :rolleyes:

I like the direction SK99 and JMS are going with all of this, But I don't know how well those Ideas would playout on the bigscreen, but then again if we can live through Midichlorians, well then..!

Sith Lord - I think you are correct in your correlation about the 'Prophecy of the Chosen One'. However, I think it results just from the flow of the story! Meaning, Anakin IS the story, and QG, Ben, and Yoda are all the central main characters around and involved with what Anakin's going through. So I think it's more of the natural flow of the story, an inevitablility(if you will) that they share this "gift for ghosts"! So, I don't think the Prophecy itself, is the reason or the mechanism that enables them to become ghosts once they become one with the Force!

Ron- I think if Vader had enough time to say his last goodbyes to his son, then he surely had enough time to "prepare" for his death! That is why In one of my original posts I only singled out Qui-Gon as the only one who wasn't prepared or was taking by suprised by his death!!

Slicker
01-12-2005, 01:59 AM
Ben and Yoda both died voluntarily...knew it was their time. Qui-Gon and Vader(Anakin) died in battle...perhaps they didn't have time to "prepare" for their moment of passing. Or...perhaps Lucas just mixed it up for the hell of it. :D
I've always felt this was exactly the reason why Qui-Gon never turned into a ghost. As for Vader he didn't see his death coming but his better side a.k.a. Anakin did and we see him in ghost form at the end of the film. My reasoning is that in Vader's inner struggle when he wants to save Luke from Palpy the good side triumphs over the dark therefore killing Vader off and leaving Anakin to haunt as a ghost.

TheDarthVader
01-12-2005, 02:48 PM
Hmmm. Yoda died in peace. Qui Gon died protecting the queen (remember? Maul appears and he tells Amidala "we'll handle this.") Kenobi died protecting Luke. Vader dies protecting Luke. Interesting.

Anyway, my old theory that I have already put on this board was that you have to die in total peace or be killed by a sith. That is one requirement. I am not sure of more. That is the only one I came up with.
Yoda- Peace Qui Gon-Sith Kenobi-Sith Anakin/Vader- Sith
See? I hope this helps.

The other part about Qui Gon teaching Yoda during the Clone Wars makes sense. Never before have the jedi been more at risk to die than during these wars. Therefore, it was a perfect time for Qui Gon to teach Yoda.

B.
TDV

ronhudy
01-12-2005, 03:13 PM
Ron- I think if Vader had enough time to say his last goodbyes to his son, then he surely had enough time to "prepare" for his death! That is why In one of my original posts I only singled out Qui-Gon as the only one who wasn't prepared or was taking by suprised by his death!!

But he didn't "voluntarily" die in peace...he was, from a physical standpoint killed in battle. Yoda and Ben sort of "gave themselves to the force". Qui-Gon and Vader/Anakin were taken...

jedi master sal
01-12-2005, 05:20 PM
I'd have to somewhat disagree about Anakin. He died not only because of the suffering from the force lightening but his suit had been so badly damaged from it as well that it was no longer able to sustain him. That's why he wanted to look at Luke with his own eyese and said that nothing could stop death now. He was preparing himself for death, so he died both from a Sith attack AND in peace.

Of course the same could be said of Qui-gon to a point, because while he didn't die immediately and vanish, his prolonged death gave him a chance to make peace with his life. So he in effect died from a Sith attack and in peace as well.

I'd go a small step forward to say that he used the force to keep himself alive long enough to ask Obi-wan to take care and teach Anakin. His body didn't disapear, but his spirit did, so there's every chance to see him as a ghost.

Also remember Yoda's sage words, "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." In saying that he tells us that the physical from is just that, the mode in which we interact with things on a physical plane. The force allows Obi-wan, Yoda, Anakin and now hopefully Qui-gon to show their physical form but in ghost form to others as a way for the physically living to relate to them. It would be much easier for me to talk to a ghost if they had the form of someone I knew, rather than a mist for example.

The 'Xir
01-13-2005, 02:00 AM
Good points JMS, Actually I kinda forgot about how long after QG actually stayed alive, and it is very similar to Anakins final moments! So maybe it's just a matter of time! As long as you have enough time to prepare for the comming death, as oppossed to being killed instantly! What maybe happening, is that window of time allows a Jedi to transfer his Luminous being out of his crude flesh, and into the spirit realm. This has often been refferred to as similar to Purgatory, those with unfinished business, stick around until they accomplish their objective! Although with religion it's not your choice to be sent into purgatory, and it seems like with the Jedi it is their choice. However, what unfinished business could Anakin possibly have to want to stick around instead of just becomming one with the force? Although my ideas sound plausibale that last fact kind prevents it from being the definite! Maybe Anakin just wanted to show Luke he made it back into the light before becomming one with the Force! :confused: Who knows I'm still confused, I guess well just have to wait ONLY 4 MONTHS to find out!!!

Slicker
01-13-2005, 02:07 AM
However, what unfinished business could Anakin possibly have to want to stick around instead of just becomming one with the force? Although my ideas sound plausibale that last fact kind prevents it from being the definite! Maybe Anakin just wanted to show Luke he made it
After being in that Vader suit for 20 years he probably had to pee really, really bad. He also need a tan.

InsaneJediGirl
01-13-2005, 10:54 PM
Perhaps the Force "willed" Qui-Gon into sticking around as a ghost for some reason.Perhaps to communicate with Anakin as we saw in AOTC or even Obi-Wan and Yoda later in the line.Does he foresee Luke as the one who will put an end to everything and asks the remaining Jedi to help.I guess I'll just have to wait til April for the comic verisons because I dont think I'm going to wait with all that temptation :) :D

JEDIpartner
01-13-2005, 11:21 PM
Aye!! I'm with you, little sister! Novelisations... adaptations... I'm there.