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JEDIpartner
01-11-2005, 03:17 PM
Work will continue on the film until April 15th.
There will be a special cut of the film for digital theatres. This cut will continue production past April 15th... possibly into May.
George Lucas admits that there are clearly two trilogies, but that ROTS will tie them together.
McCallum denies Tom Stoppard was brought in to polish the dialogue.
Lucas is willing to take a PG-13 rating on the final cut of ROTS.
On Anakin's birth: "It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem relationship. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call midichlorians (spelt 'mitichlorians' in the article). They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different species, a different animal, that live inside every single cell and all it to life, allow it reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. They more you havem the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but, basically, that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."

JEDIpartner
01-11-2005, 03:58 PM
There is also an ad for those stupid Hummers on the back of the magazine. It shows the back end of the vehicle and, in small letters in the centre of the page, it reads "Wookie (SP) Sized."

:p

In spite of the misspelling, they tried... :)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Pretty interesting. I'll have to get the magazine. Who's Tom Stoppard?

Seems like we'll get a more in-depth explanation of Anakin's birth and the midi-chlorians?

The 'Xir
01-12-2005, 02:14 AM
Yeah I'm happy with that explanation of Anakins' Birth, and pretty much what I've always believed! It's also what I've been saying to all the critics about Midichlorians that,"They are NOT the Force itself, but just the tool that allows A Jedi to tap into the Force". Meaning the Force exists if Jedi were never born, but when they are born, what makes them Jedi, or "Force sensitive" is that they have these little things called Midichlorians inside them which enables them to tap into the Force!
Now Qui-Gon said, "they are in all living things, inside our cells.", and I think that that's where the amount that you have comes into play! Us regular folk, have the least, while Force sensitive beings have more, and Force Users have the most, while Yoda and Anakin have even more than most Force Users! So these little building blocks of life and the living Force, DO NOT demystify the Force as some like to think, but just shows how one becomes closer with the Force. Kinda like Faith suppossedly brings you closer to God! Faith allows for something like a Virgin Birth to happen! Or walking on water or rising from the dead or whatever, if you have Faith then you are in harmony with whatever religion(The Force) you follow! I don't even consider myself a religious person and I understand this concept! However, I AM a spiritual person, and I think that's what allows me to understand, Just because I don't believe in an "Organized religions' God" doesn't mean that I can't have faith... or Midichlorians! ;)

stillakid
01-12-2005, 01:06 PM
Yeah I'm happy with that explanation of Anakins' Birth, and pretty much what I've always believed! It's also what I've been saying to all the critics about Midichlorians that,"They are NOT the Force itself, but just the tool that allows A Jedi to tap into the Force". Meaning the Force exists if Jedi were never born, but when they are born, what makes them Jedi, or "Force sensitive" is that they have these little things called Midichlorians inside them which enables them to tap into the Force!
Now Qui-Gon said, "they are in all living things, inside our cells.", and I think that that's where the amount that you have comes into play! Us regular folk, have the least, while Force sensitive beings have more, and Force Users have the most, while Yoda and Anakin have even more than most Force Users! So these little building blocks of life and the living Force, DO NOT demystify the Force as some like to think, but just shows how one becomes closer with the Force. Kinda like Faith suppossedly brings you closer to God! Faith allows for something like a Virgin Birth to happen! Or walking on water or rising from the dead or whatever, if you have Faith then you are in harmony with whatever religion(The Force) you follow! I don't even consider myself a religious person and I understand this concept! However, I AM a spiritual person, and I think that's what allows me to understand, Just because I don't believe in an "Organized religions' God" doesn't mean that I can't have faith... or Midichlorians! ;)

I don't want to inadvertently branch off into a Rancor Pit discussion, but I take issue with the way you've described the nature and power of "faith." Faith is nothing more than believing in something that can't or hasn't been proven yet. Such as, "my brother says he will pay me back that $20 bucks and I have faith that he will live up to his word." Or, "I read somewhere that some guy saw an alien and I have faith that he is telling the truth." Nowhere in there does having "faith" give you the ability to have a superpower. What you seem to be describing is a sort of placebo effect wherein the user of the placebo thinks he can now do all sorts of fantastic things...and can! I harken back to the film FEARLESS where the lead character survives a plane crash and truly believes himself to be invincible. Of course he isn't, but a string of coincidental events occurs leading him to believe it to be true. The climax of course arrives when he crosses the line (with a strawberry...allergies) and his "Belief" crumbles like a house of cards. He managed to fool himself for a while, but reality intruded.

I'm entirely with you on the explanation of the Force and how Midichlorians play into it. I don't like that Midi's are in the story, but I fully understand it and agree with you. But when you said:


Kinda like Faith suppossedly brings you closer to God!
I disagree. All Faith is doing is allowing you to believe in that which has yet to be proven. You may think that you're "closer to God," when in fact all that is happening is that you are allowing yourself to believe in the possibility of a God being out there.

Or this one:

Faith allows for something like a Virgin Birth to happen! Or walking on water or rising from the dead or whatever.
I'd reword it a little by saying, "faith allows you to believe in the possibility that a Virgin Birth could happen." In and of itself, "Faith" is just a door opening up your mind to possibilities. It doesn't have superpowers in and of itself in the way that GL is describing Midichlorians.


...if you have Faith then you are in harmony with whatever religion(The Force) you follow!
Well, sort of. Having Faith in any belief, be in a religion or just believing that GL knows what he's doing is really nothing more than being a cheerleader for whatever cause/organization/hobby you're joining. Maybe it could be described as having "harmony," but again, I don't think that it applies in quite the same "superpower" way that Midi's act in. "Faith" is a tool of our minds to give us the ability to believe in that which is not provable. Midichlorians, on the other hand, are physical measurable entities which, according to the lore, enable the "host" to tap into the energy field (the Force) and manipulate it in a tangible manner. Just as a placebo can't really solve problems (by itself), "Faith" doesn't have the ability to really give the user any tangible "power." They are apples and oranges.

:)

tagmac
01-12-2005, 05:10 PM
I haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but thank goodness they've finally debunked that ridiculous idea that Dooku (or worse, Palpatine) was Anakins father. The last thing we need to see is another "I am your father" scenario that would be not only contrived, but actually hurt the movie in it's lack of originality. And now that the midichlorians are better explained, maybe some will finally stop knocking the idea as it was introduced in TPM.

As for the PG-13 rating, I say go for it. It'll not only attract the young audiences even more, but it won't prevent parents from taking their kids to it. The darker this movie is, the better chance is has to capping off the Saga on a very high note (and hopefully earn a few Oscars, the few nominations of which were stolen from TPM in favor of the butt-kissing the Matrix movies received).

The 'Xir
01-13-2005, 12:57 AM
Stilla, you're killing me! lol I love how you just love to nitpik! You realize that in some crazy kinda way we're actually agreeing with each other, and I'll say I'm at fault for maybe not wording myself as properly as I should, although I like to think that I communicate my points pretty well! So, in turn I'm not going to respond to all your points, and just show you how one of your counterpoints is exactly what I said previously:

But first I just want to point out:

Kinda like Faith suppossedly brings you closer to God!
Notice I said SUPPOSSEDLY, I didn't say it did; but in the context of religion within religious faith it is suppossed to bring you closer or in harmony with god! Because if Gods' followers didn't have faith in him then why have the promise of an eternal reward in heaven! Makes no sense for God to even maintain his presence unless all he wanted to do was exact his vengence upon all non followers/non believers! Know what I'm getting at? Kinda pointless for a God to try to show compassion for an entire flock of people who don't have faith or believe in him!

Anyways(that carried on to long), here's the two points that show we both agree with each other Stilla! Actualy you tried to reproach what I said, and then ended with a statement that proved what I was saying all along:
Mine:
They are NOT the Force itself, but just the tool that allows A Jedi to tap into the Force".

yours:
"Faith" is a tool of our minds to give us the ability to believe in that which is not provable.

Ya see, It doesn't matter that both these tools work in different fashions! They both are devices that enable the User to gain something, that he couldn't otherwise acquire without the tool/device! Make sense? It doesn't matter if the end result is having superpowers, or having blind faith as long as the tool gives the user the proper end result!
I just said that,
these little building blocks of life and the living Force, DO NOT demystify the Force as some like to think, but just shows how one becomes closer with the Force. Kinda like Faith suppossedly brings you closer to God!

The 'Xir
01-13-2005, 01:20 AM
"Faith" is a tool of our minds to give us the ability to believe in that which is not provable.

Actually I went over this line again, because it throws off my "blind faith" comment above, and it actually makes no sense! It's like trying to seperate two things that are the same, it can't be done! Faith is to believe in that which is not provable! And if you are devout in your beliefs it's not a tool of your mind, it is a tool given to you by God to allow you to come into harmony with him!
Stilla you're looking at it from our Atheist/Agnostic viewpoints, and talking about the "science" of how the mind uses faith to give us the ability to beileve in God. But for true believers in God it doesn't work that way, there is no science behind it, only faith! Faith is that tool who's end result proves the existence of God. Midichlorians are the tool who's end result proves the existence of the Force!

stillakid
01-13-2005, 11:49 AM
Actually I went over this line again, because it throws off my "blind faith" comment above, and it actually makes no sense! It's like trying to seperate two things that are the same, it can't be done! Faith is to believe in that which is not provable! And if you are devout in your beliefs it's not a tool of your mind, it is a tool given to you by God to allow you to come into harmony with him!
Stilla you're looking at it from our Atheist/Agnostic viewpoints, and talking about the "science" of how the mind uses faith to give us the ability to beileve in God. But for true believers in God it doesn't work that way, there is no science behind it, only faith! Faith is that tool who's end result proves the existence of God. Midichlorians are the tool who's end result proves the existence of the Force!


Ouch! Damn, we're diggin' in to the nitty gritty here. ;) It's been a long time since I've had to pay so close attention to somebodies words. That's a good thing! :)

I see what you're getting at. My posts are definitely from the outside looking in, however I do believe that the way I described "Faith" is universal no matter who we're talking about. See, the one point where I'll continue to disagree is with the wording of this sentence of yours:


Faith is that tool who's end result proves the existence of God.

Now, if you talk to a zealot, he/she might insist that the above is true, but their erroneous assumption certainly doesn't make it true. They obviously want it to be true, but that's a far cry from proof. So in the end, Faith in something is really nothing more than what I said originally...a tool that allows us to believe in possibilities. Nothing more and nothing less. Without Faith, one closes his/her mind off to possibilities. But the wisest of us realize that Faith in and of itself is not proof of those possibilities. It takes hard and fast observation and data to actually prove something to be true or false.

So, yeah, in a manner of speaking, Faith is a tool that gives a person power, but only in a fleeting sense of the definition. Midichlorians, on the other hand, have more in common with a kitchen appliance, where the user has a tangible entity to use in an effort to influence something else, in this case, the energy field surrounding all living things (the Force). Faith is merely an idea, but Midichlorians are a tangible entity. See the difference?

I've been called a "nitpicker" before, but I stand by the arguments as the details are where the majority of life's problems lie. An i not dotted or a T not crossed can change the meaning of an idea entirely.

The 'Xir
01-13-2005, 12:32 PM
Now, if you talk to a zealot, he/she might insist that the above is true, but their erroneous assumption certainly doesn't make it true. They obviously want it to be true, but that's a far cry from proof. So in the end, Faith in something is really nothing more than what I said originally...a tool that allows us to believe in possibilities. Nothing more and nothing less. Without Faith, one closes his/her mind off to possibilities. But the wisest of us realize that Faith in and of itself is not proof of those possibilities. It takes hard and fast observation and data to actually prove something to be true or false.

So, yeah, in a manner of speaking, Faith is a tool that gives a person power, but only in a fleeting sense of the definition. Midichlorians, on the other hand, have more in common with a kitchen appliance, where the user has a tangible entity to use in an effort to influence something else, in this case, the energy field surrounding all living things (the Force). Faith is merely an idea, but Midichlorians are a tangible entity. See the difference?

Now, I agree with you on pretty much all of what you said, but once again it's because you and I consider ourselves Atheists(well I actually consider myself Agnostic but..) and we don't believe in God! So what you are saying is true. However, there are different kinds of Faith so this statement:

however I do believe that the way I described "Faith" is universal no matter who we're talking about.
This isn't exactly true! Because it's not universal for everyone! The word faith has been taken from religion and been given a lesser meaning in everyday use, like how you said you could lend $20 to your friend and have faith that he'll pay you back, However this is different than Faith in God(for someone who actually believes in God, unlike us) Their faith unlike ours confirms the existence of God for them, because if they didn't have Faith(like we don't) than they'd be Atheists like us!!! So their Faith is the tool that proves the existence of God for them! We just have faith in things like our friends or that the wheather will get better etc etc etc.., but it's totally different than actually having faith in God(and actually believing in it, and following God's word) Because for them it's not an erroneous assumption as you called it, it's the truth to them, but for us it is erroneous because we don't believe, and we need material proof in order to accept the fact that god actually does exist! Questions? :nerv: lol
Oh and by the way I liked the kitchen appliance referrence! :D

So before this thread get's closed down, anyone else read that Vanity Fair article? ;)

JEDIpartner
01-13-2005, 08:35 PM
DING DING DING!!!! That's enough, boys! Back to the article and the film!!!

stillakid
01-14-2005, 01:22 AM
DING DING DING!!!! That's enough, boys! Back to the article and the film!!!


:confused: But we are talking about the article and the film. :confused:



Now, I agree with you on pretty much all of what you said, but once again it's because you and I consider ourselves Atheists(well I actually consider myself Agnostic but..) and we don't believe in God! So what you are saying is true. However, there are different kinds of Faith so this statement:

But I do believe in God. The only difference between me and a zealot though is that I haven't confused FAITH with KNOWLEDGE. There is only one kind of Faith, one definition. Because if I KNOW something, I have no need for FAITH. See?

And as that applies to the VANITY FAIR article and Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith ( ;) ), Lucas is merely saying that the Midi's are the go-between for large beings and the energy field that actually makes up everything. Sort of like talent-agents. The more agents you have, the more influence you have over the arena. And because they are measurable (see: Star Wars: The Phantom Menace), one has no need for FAITH. And in the Star Wars universe, there is no need for FAITH to believe in the Force mainly because people can prove its existence by levitating fruit and such.

A PRIME example of this is the opening of Big Trouble in Little China when the cop asks the Chinese guy how he can possibly believe in all that magic hocus pocus stuff. Now the Chinese guy could've just done what everyone else does and said to read a holy book or "just have faith." But no, he produces a cool lightning effect between his hands to illustrate in a tangible way that the magic is real. No faith required. :) Same with Midichlorians.

Now, as to whether ROTS will actually tie up loose ends and be a great film? That'll take faith! ;)

The 'Xir
01-14-2005, 02:15 AM
Now, as to whether ROTS will actually tie up loose ends and be a great film? That'll take faith! ;)

AMEN!!! to that brother..err wait a minute I'm Agnostic, um.. hear hear! To a jolly good show!!! :crazed:

The 'Xir
01-14-2005, 02:19 AM
Actually I just bought the Vanity Fair Mag tonight, so I'll read it in about 10 min. and I'll let'cha know what I thought by tommorrow!

The 'Xir
01-18-2005, 12:37 PM
Here's my thoughts on the article, including some responses to what some here brought up:

Overall the article really doesn't divulge much the common Star Wars fan doesn't already know! However it does give us some glimpses!
For one the whole "hell and back" comment is just referring to the ride the audience will be on during the movie, although the lava planet metaphorically is suppossed to represent "hell" obviously and what the "literally" comment meant!

I like the fact that Lucas shows he is aware of how most fans don't like the direction he took Anakin in, "Throughout 'Attack of the Clones', Anakin is an impatient, arrogant teen, with great powers benneath a James Dean like pout. Audiences who expected a more heroic protaganist, someone like the easy to root for farm boy Luke Skywalker, may have been confused by this sullen kid, who is alternately boastful and whinning. Lucas believes Christensen took an unfair hit from critics and fans alike merely for carrying out what was in the script. "poor Hayden", he says, "His performance is great. They just don't like the character". although in the end I don't think he really cares!

Although some don't like Hayden and the character, I figured I'd recall this part of the article, to leave the door open for Stilla to validate his poor script arguments! ;) I personally think the character is fine, I just don't like some of the devices that Lucas has used/not used to lead him toward the dark side! Besides although more heroic, Luke was just as Boastful and whinny! Well atleast whinnny!!! lol

One spoiler aspect of the article that I can't believe no one commented on thus far, is when they state, "Lucas cryptically suggests that Anakin's grief over his mother(or perhaps over someone else close to him WHO ENDS UP DEAD) is what will drive him into the embrace of the Jedi's enemies, The Sith". It depends on how you read it, but I think this is stating that It happenes and not suggesting that someone perhaps ends up dead, but does end up dead!!!

I think the best part of this article is in refference to what Lucas is going to do after Star Wars! Although no mention of the hinted at TV series, I would highly enjoy a more avant garde Lucas filmaker, if he really plans to go back to his college roots, and do more artistic and thought provoking films! Hopefully he'll just remember to only come up with the ideas, but have someone else write them down for him! :D Right Stilla?! :p

Jargo
03-05-2005, 07:43 AM
'who is Tom Stoppard'

http://www.geocities.com/stoppard2004/screenplays.html

Darth Alex
03-06-2005, 12:32 AM
I'm a little lost, since I don't normally read Vanity Fair....is this the issue with the (now traditional) SW cast and Lucas? Doesn't it come out closer to 5/19? Did I miss it? WHAT IS GOING ON?
When I looked for this issue today I couldn't find it-was this out in early January?
Any help here would be appreciated....!

The 'Xir
03-06-2005, 09:52 PM
DA - If you read my posts, you'll notice I bought the Mag, on January 14th, so I doubt it's still sitting on shelves nowadays(nearly 2 months later) but ya never know!

And yes it is the VF that has the extended cover showing the cast of all 6 films!