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Sweden
02-22-2005, 06:49 PM
I think that the very first time I ever saw the Ultimate Collector Series being announced was at Sir Steve's Star Wars Guide some time before the Christmas of 1999 and I got really excited about the coming 1:28 scale model sets of the 7181 T.I.E. Interceptor and 7191 X-Wing Fighter that was released here in 2000.
From the way that the Ultimate Collector Series was announced with these two 1:28 scale model sets I got the impression that this was the begining of an entire line of 1:28 scale model sets of both the smaller one and two man Rebel and Imperial fighters that was seen throughout the entire Original Star Wars Trilogy.

Then in 2001 I saw the release of 10018 Darth Maul Bust and 10019 Rebel Blockade Runner and I got the impression that this was another Star Wars line created by The LEGO Group for the really huge starships and the way they were announced as Sculptures on Shop at Home I simply couldn't see it as anything else.
In 2002 7194 Yoda - Jedi Master was released as an "Ultimate Collector Series" model set and I got really confused but eventually I thought that it was an Ultimate Collector Series model set due to it's nature but then came along the 10026 Naboo Starfighter and 10030 Imperial Star Destroyer and messed it up further.

The 10026 Naboo Fighter wasn't 1:28 scale and I was disappointed with that even if it were more accurate then the System Set but what I wanted was something in scale with the T.I.E. Interceptor and the X-Wing Fighter and not a Special Edition version becuase that was something totally different then first announced.
However, I did accept the fact that the 10030 Imperial Star Destroyer was released as a Ultimate Collector Series model as it was an ultimate model set of the starship but I thought it was really odd that it wasn't released as a Sculpture like both the Darth Maul Bust & Rebel Blockade Runner initially were in the begining.

So I started to realize that The LEGO Group had messed up the whole Ultimate Collector Series idea as it was first announced and when the Ultimate Collector Series 10129 Snowspeeder model set was released in "1:15 scale" in 2003 I truly realized that The LEGO Group had abandoned the whole 1:28 scale concept.
To make things worse The LEGO Group placed the Shop at Home Exclusive of the 10123 Cloud City System Scale Playset under the Ultimate Collector Series cathegory on their website and all of a sudden basically everyone all over the place started to call Shop at Home Exclusive System Sets for Ultimate Collector Series.

So last year The LEGO Group released the 10131 T.I.E. Fighter Collection System Scale Set and basically everyone called it Ultimate Collector Series when it was just a Shop at Home Exclusive and later the 10134 Y-Wing Starfighter was released as an Ultimate Collector Series model set but not in the original 1:28 scale.
The way the Ultimate Collector Series originally was announced made me believe that it was a range of all these one and two man fighters done in 1:28 scale and the way the huge spaceships were announced as Sculptures made me believe it was another line and it's sad that The LEGO Group abandoned this concept.

Being originally a model kit builder and collector the whole issue of scale and accuracy has always been really important to me as I always wanted model kits that were in scale and accurate compared to all of the original filming miniatures from film and television that I've come to want as model kits but that's a hard thing to come by.
Yes I do know that LEGO was originally being made for and aimed at kids and younger teenagers but with The LEGO Group releasing sets for us AFOLs one could sure as hell ask for more as we do pay a whole lot for all of these so called Ultimate Collector Series model sets so why The LEGO Group kind of destroyed a good idea is strange.

For the love of God I simply can't understand why they did the 10129 Snowspeeder in 1:15 scale instead 1:28 because that way it would've been in scale with the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter and smaller and therefore also much cheaper and then maybe the younger builders and collectors could afford it as well.
The same goes for both the 10026 Naboo Fighter and the 10134 Y-Wing Starfighter that are made in yet two other type of scales and that's just as bad as the old and crappy MPC, Airfix, MPC/ERTL, AMT/ERTL and Racing Champions Star Wars model kits from the 70's and 80's that were made in scales all over the charts.

And for the love of God why do most of you guys call all the Shop at Home Exclusive System Scale Sets for Ultimate Collector Series?

Kindest regards,


Lars "Sweden" Olsson in Sundsvall, Sweden.

Slicker
02-23-2005, 03:23 AM
I always thought that the Ultimate Collector's Series was for the Collector's of Lego rather than the occasional buyer hence the higher price point on nearly all of the Lego sets (except for the Naboo fighter which, IMO, isn't much bigger than the Ep I set:confused: ) I wasn't even aware of a certain scale I just always assumed these were for the serious Lego/Star Wars collector that wanted a little something extra out of there Lego sets to make the collection stand out.

Ji'dai
02-23-2005, 04:10 AM
I was confused too about the switch from UCS to Sculpture and back again so you're not alone. (The set numbering system is a bit weird too. Initial set numbers for Star Wars was 71xx-72xx. Then in 2003 it switched to 44xx - 45xx).

I tried to distinguish "Sculptures" from "Ultimate Collector Series" as thus: Sculptures were busts or statues of a character and the Ultimate Collector Series were vehicles. But as Sweden points out the Yoda "sculpture" is actually billed as a UCS set on the box; the Blockade Runner was considered a sculpture. I dunno...

For those of us amateur archivists who extensively catalog and categorize our collections such anal trivialities are important :D

I've honsestly never considered the differences in scale though. Of the UCS vehicles I have the X-Wing, TIE, and Blockade Runner and but have never had them on display at the same time. I can say that the change in scale doesn't really bother me too much, but I can understand your frustration. Imagine if Hasbro didn't have a standard scale for the basic figure line. We'd get a 3-3/4" Luke in one wave, an 8" Vader the next, then they'd switch to 3" Stormtrooper the following year. Pfft..

But I agree with Slicker that the UCS and Sculpture sets are intended for adult collectors given the price point and building complexity. They offer an alternative for older builders not interested in the mini-fig scale sets.

LusiferSam
02-23-2005, 01:36 PM
The set numbering system is a bit weird too. Initial set numbers for Star Wars was 71xx-72xx. Then in 2003 it switched to 44xx - 45xx.
Sadly set numbers don't really mean anything any more. 67xx to 69xx was Space, 63xx to 66xx was Town, 60xx was Castle and 62xx was Pirate. It seems like about '99 (how odd) that Lego really gave up on any meaningful numbering system.

JediTricks
02-23-2005, 04:45 PM
Sweden, are you sure the X-wing and the TIE Interceptor are supposed to be on the same scale? I don't own either, but I looked extensively at each model and the TIE seemed to be on a smaller scale than the X-wing, the cockpit seemed like it was for a smaller character.

I've always accepted UCS as just a general "high end building system" series, I never thought it was in any specific scale. The name changes have confused me some, for sure, but I don't think the Snowspeeder would be as cool at the smaller scale since you're talking about taking it from the detailed world that it's currently in and making it only a little bigger than the current System Snowspeeder.

Slicker
02-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Sweden, are you sure the X-wing and the TIE Interceptor are supposed to be on the same scale? I don't own either, but I looked extensively at each model and the TIE seemed to be on a smaller scale than the X-wing, the cockpit seemed like it was for a smaller character.I'm thinking that they are probably on the same scale because when I had both displayed I had the little Technic Lego guys in the cockpits and they both fit equally well almost as if the sets were made to put them in the cockpits. I don't know if it helps but it may give you an idea of the scale.

Mandalorian Candidat
02-23-2005, 06:35 PM
Well, I'm sure we can all agree that UCS doesn't stand for Ultimate Coding System. :)

It seems to me that when Lego started doing this line it was for non-minifig compatible/non-Technic sets (e.g. X-Wing, TIE/I) and kept in the same vein with the DM bust and Yoda statue. With the Cloud City Set it seems that they've deviated from this trend so now it includes all SW S@H exclusives as well.

I can overlook the numbering system cause all I really care about is the price and if the sets are kick-A.

DarthQuack
02-23-2005, 06:55 PM
Just a hair off topic....but if you had 300 bones to drop on a set would you choose the Death Star II or the Star Destroyer.... :)

Sweden
02-23-2005, 07:04 PM
Slicker

Yes, the Ultimate Collector Series was made for and aimed at the collector's and AFOL or people with thicker wallets that actually could afford all these rather expensive LEGO model type of sets that younger ones couldn't do.

Yes, the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter were officially announced and released in approximate 1:28 scale and all the other model sets are done in certain scales as well even if it wasn't officially announced to the public.

Ji'dai

Yeah, it was confusing when The LEGO Group made the switch from Ultimate Collector Series to Sculptures and back again because it really messed up the whole concept of what at least I was lead to believe about this product line.

I also tried to distinguish "Ultimate Collector Series" and "Sculptures" as two totally different entities as at least I was lead to believe so because all this messed it up further and what The LEGO Group were thinking is a mystery.

Yes, you're right that such anal trivialities are important to us weirdos. :D

Yes, there are differences in scale among the Ultimate Collector Series Model Sets but it's NOT that scale difference between the Imperial Star Destroyer and the Rebel Blockade Runner that bothers me as that's impossible to do.

What bothers me is that only the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter are made in 1:28 scale while the Naboo Fighter is around 1:48 scale, the Y-Wing Starfighter in yet another scale and the Snowspeeder in around 1:15 scale.

I quote myself from the Eurobricks website and forums:

I'm not saying that ALL of the Ultimate Collector Series models should be one single scale becuase that's not possible or what "I" want but at least the one or two man smaller fighters becuase that's possible to do and would've been a very logic and smart business decision.

I do love large scale model kits of certain spaceships from film and television and I've always wanted to be able to build a Rebel and Imperial fleet but with the old MPC/AMT/ERTL/Racing Champions model kits that wasn't just possible as scales went all over the charts.

Sure, SMT - Scale Model Technologies in Canada made very fine 1:48 scale model kits but they were bloody expensive and they're gone now as they were unlicensed and got a "Cease and Desist" order from Lucas Film and on eBay they're even more expensive now a days.

Sure, Fine Molds in Japan makes very fine 1:72 scale model kits of the X-Wing Fighter, T.I.E. Fighter, T.I.E. Interceptor, Jedi Starfighter and Jango Fett's Slave 1 but that's it and if more model kits from them are on their way is anybody's guess as it's been quite for a while.

I think you get my point...

End quote.

Yes, imagine if "Hasbro" didn't have a "standard" scale or size at all for their basic figure line and then maybe the rest of you guys who doesn't seem to understand me eventually will understand what I'm actually talking about. ;)

Yes, it's clear that the Ultimate Collector Series Model Sets were intended as both you and Slicker says for adult builders and collectors for all of the very reasons you guys mention and that's what I've tried to say the whole time.

LusiferSam

Yeah, it sure is odd I must admitt. :confused:

JediTricks

Well, as both the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter ARE indeed made out of LEGO parts they aren't exactly 1:28 scale but more of approximately 1:28 scale and that's totally okay with me as they ARE made out of LEGO parts.

Therefore some of the shapes and most of the fine details will not be movie accurate or in scale with the original filming miniatures and the intakes and engines of the X-Wing Fighter are clearly way to small in size but it's LEGO.

The wings or solar panels if you like of the T.I.E. Interceptor has the wrong shape and angles and are somewhat too large but I guess that's due to the fact that no other parts exists for them or are more suitable but it's LEGO.

I haven't made any real scale calculations on the T.I.E. Interceptor and the X-Wing Fighter but what "my" trained eye can see they're as close to 1:28 scale and as close in scale to each other as possible concidering it's LEGO.

Gareth "Guybrush" Bowler over at From Bricks to Bothans is a real cocky dude but he's a master indeed at making "Classic Ultimate Collector Series" 1:28 Scale Model Sets so a 1:28 scale Snowspeeder wasn't impossible to do at all.

I would rather have seen "his" design released as a Ultimate Collector Series model set for the simple reason that it's in scale with the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter and the details on "his" version is good enough for me.

Check out all of Gareth "Guybrush" Bowler's "Classic Ultimate Collector Series" 1:28 scale model sets over at From Bricks to Bothans and then tell me that you wouldn't want to see "his" versions released instead of The LEGO group's.

http://www.fbtb.net/gareth/index.asp

Sweden - The One... And Only.

Kidhuman
02-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Just a hair off topic....but if you had 300 bones to drop on a set would you choose the Death Star II or the Star Destroyer.... :)


Star Destroyer.

JediGoofy
02-24-2005, 02:09 AM
Just a hair off topic....but if you had 300 bones to drop on a set would you choose the Death Star II or the Star Destroyer.... :)

Me looking at the picture of the Star Destroyer: "Wow!" :eek:

Me looking at the picture of the Death Star II: "Hmmm..." :confused:

Answer: I own a Star Destroyer, I will not buy a Death Star II! :)

JediTricks
02-24-2005, 05:53 PM
I'm thinking that they are probably on the same scale because when I had both displayed I had the little Technic Lego guys in the cockpits and they both fit equally well almost as if the sets were made to put them in the cockpits. I don't know if it helps but it may give you an idea of the scale.
Well, that is a good indication of scale (though the Technic Guys are slightly bigger than 1/18th scale) but I'm surprised you could get a TG into the TIE Interceptor's cockpit as it looked like there was no place for their legs.



Just a hair off topic....but if you had 300 bones to drop on a set would you choose the Death Star II or the Star Destroyer....I have the awesome Galoob Die Cast Death Star which is very satisfying and the Galoob MM Death Star, so I'd go with the Star Destroyer. However, all those plates in new-gray are an awesome parts situation so I am tempted on that level. ;) But yeah, so far this DS2 model isn't my cup of tea.



Yes, imagine if "Hasbro" didn't have a "standard" scale or size at all for their basic figure line and then maybe the rest of you guys who doesn't seem to understand me eventually will understand what I'm actually talking about.Galoob did this with my beloved Action Fleet line, at first they mostly seemed to be in the same scale as each other but they deviated further and further as the line progressed. I eventually accepted it as it was the nature of the beast (Hasbro's contract with LFL forbid Galoob from doing figure-oriented vehicles larger than 6" unfortunately so the only vehicles they did like that were technically Micro Machines playsets). I guess part of the reason I'm not more on the same page as you is because these are models and don't have figures that interact with them.


Well, as both the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter ARE indeed made out of LEGO parts they aren't exactly 1:28 scale but more of approximately 1:28 scale and that's totally okay with me as they ARE made out of LEGO parts.As Slicker pointed out, Technic Guys could fit in both models (I'm still not picturing in my mind's eye a TG in the TIE Interceptor though) so how could these be 1:28th if the TGs are 1:18th or larger?


Gareth "Guybrush" Bowler over at From Bricks to Bothans is a real cocky dude but he's a master indeed at making "Classic Ultimate Collector Series" 1:28 Scale Model Sets so a 1:28 scale Snowspeeder wasn't impossible to do at all.I'm sure it's possible, but was it small compared to other UCS sets? It'd only be what, 18 cm (approx 7 inches) long, right? Except for the Naboo Fighter, all the UCS vehicle sets have been fairly expensive, sizeable, and detailed, would a 1:28th Snowspeeder be all those things?

Ok, I've seen the pics, it looks great but I'd have to see it in context with something else to see how it looks as a UCS set. You are probably right, if they could build something on that level at 18cm it'd be great, but I can't see myself paying more than $50 for that and they have piece counts to contend with.

Slicker
02-24-2005, 06:25 PM
Here's the link to the custom UCS sets that Sweden was talking about. Link (http://www.fbtb.net/gareth/index.asp)

Sweden
02-24-2005, 09:42 PM
Mandalorian Candidat

Yeah, "UCS" sure as hell doesn't stand for that or anything else. *Laughs*

The one "great myth" of 10123 Cloud City being a Ultimate Collector Series model set surfaced when it was a Shop at Home exclusive that happened to be put in the Ultimate Collector Series cathegory but that's it to me at least.

10123 Cloud City is nothing else then a System or Mini Figure scale set for the simple reason that it includes mini figures and the set itself is scaled for them so there's nothing UCS about it as it's "just" an expensive System set.

DarthQuack

I'd go for the Imperial Star Destroyer. The Death Star II is pure crap. :D

Kidhuman

You're as smart as me. :D

JediGoofy

You're as smart as me too. :D

JediTricks

I know about Galoob's Action Fleet line but I'm not familiar with it as you are but I can really imagine that the license with Lucas Film Limited was the soul reason to why the fine Action Fleet line got to be in totally different scales.

Sure, the Ultimate Collector Series sets are models with no figures to interact with them but figures or not what's the fun in having a very huge 1:15 scale Snowspeeder on display along with the smaller 1:28 scale X-Wing Fighter?

The supposed "real life" size of the X-Wing Fighter is 12,5 meters and the LEGO model is 44 centimeters so 0,44 meter times 28 is indeed 12,5 meters so the X-Wing Fighter set "is" indeed approximately made in the 1:28 scale.

The supposed "real life" size of the T.I.E. Interceptor is 9,6 meters and the LEGO model is 34 centimeters so 0,34 meter times 28 is indeed 9,6 meters so the T.I.E. Interceptor set "is" indeed approximately made in the 1:28 scale.

What you got to remember about these model sets are that they actually are made out of LEGO pieces so "both" the cockpit of the T.I.E. Interceptor and the X-Wing Fighter are simplified and have more room then they should have.

You're right about the Snowspeeder actually... *Laughs*

I haven't really memorized all of the supposed "real life" sizes of all the Star Wars ships and vehicles I'll admitt but when checking out the details of the Snowspeeder its supposed "real life" size was as you say indeed 5,3 meters.

That would as you say make the Snowspeeder approximately 18 centimeters long in 1:28 scale making it a "very" small Ultimate Collector Series model set but then again these official figures for the ships and vehicles are strange...

This would mean that the T.I.E. Interceptor a one man ship is almost twice as long as the Snowspeeder and when comparing the pilot with the ship there's no way at all that the T.I.E. Interceptor is almost 10 meters long or?

However, when I'm comparing the cockpit and pilot size of both the original filming miniatures and the LEGO model sets the T.I.E. Interceptor and X-Wing Fighter seem to be in scale with each other but it doesn't make any sense.

Why would the one man T.I.E. Interceptor be twice as long as the two man Snowspeeder because when comparing cockpit and pilot(s) of both of them the Snowspeeder would be a bit smaller but not "that" much smaller at least.

If the figures for both the T.I.E. Interceptor and the Snowspeeder indeed were correct then the cockpit of the T.I.E. Interceptor wouldn't be much smaller then the cockpit of the Snowspeeder in 1:28 scale volume wise.

Jesus... I'm all dizzy trying to figure this one out you know. *Laughs*

I do wonder what figures Gareth "Guybrush" Bowler used for his version of the Ultimate Collector Series Snowspeeder because as far as I know he has said that it's classic 1:28 scale but his model is much longer then 18 centimeters.

Then again his Snowspeeder does make more sense size wise as it seem to be around 10 centimeters shorter then the T.I.E. Interceptor and then the cockpit of them both are "comparable" with each other scale wise looking.

When scale and size doesn't make any sense the size of pilots and hatches as well as the cockpit can be used to determinate an approximate correct scale and size because in movies they don't really care about scale and size.

A really good example of all this is the Millennium Falcon in Star wars and the A.P.C. in Aliens that both have larger interiors then exteriors but I do assume that they're like and constructed much like Doctor Who's phone booth Tardis.

Sweden - The One... And Only.

LusiferSam
02-25-2005, 12:51 AM
Ultimately Lego is not a model company. They are a toy company that makes models on occasion. There fore I see no reason to make all the UCS set the same scale (besides that fact that one could afford a Death Star at the same scale as the 7191 X-Wing lol ). I'm guess Lego has desired level of accuracy for each UCS set which is what divers the scale. But if your so up tight about scale build your own, I'd love to see them.

Sweden
02-25-2005, 01:57 AM
LusiferSam

It's hilarious you know...

During the almost six years that I've collected the LEGO Star Wars line or more correctly during the five years I've visited AFOL communities I've seen people whine and complain much more worse then me about sets like the Millennium Falcon and Imperial Shuttle for example being way to juniorized by The LEGO Group and how they've dreamed about sets being in scale with each other and even being released as Ultimate Collector Series model sets.

Then when I make an more intelligent post about this to start an interesting conversation then the usual god damn "I'm the best, You're the best, He's the best, What sets should I buy?, What sets shouldn't I buy?, What's the piece count of this and that?" boring crap posts everyone seem to have forgotten what they said before and to make matters even worse they don't even read what I just wrote and tell me something I never ever said or wrote.

To me and the way the Ultimate Collector Series was and is announced and even advertised this line is "supposed" to be scale models of different Star Wars subjects but in LEGO form built as close to scale and as detailed as is possible compared to the original filming miniatures and for different type of subjects different kind of scales were going to be used for this Star Wars line.

I've never ever asked for or wanted the Imperial Star Destroyer to be in the same scale as the X-Wing Fighter becuase that's simply "not" possible but what I wanted was that the one and two man fighter sets in the Ultimate Collector Series should be in scale with each other and nothing else and I never ever even wanted the Rebel Blockade Runner to be in the same scale as the Imperial Star Destroyer because that's also impossible but people do think and say to me that it's what I said I wanted when I actually didn't.

I've said before that I actually do know that The LEGO Group is ultimately a toy producer and I do know that they occasionally make models but I've never ever said that they should make "all" the Ultimate Collector Series sets in one single scale so you got it "all" wrong but as The LEGO Group entered the model kit market with their "LEGO" models they should make the best of it and produce real scale models if they do want to enter that market piece.

What I'm saying is that they shouldn't announce and advertise about them making scale models and try to get a piece of the model kit market unless they do it the right way because that's the smart thing to do if they actually want to find a new market amongst the model kit builders that might just love to buy a Star Wars LEGO model to re-live their childhood days of building LEGO and get a break from the kitbuilding and gluesniffing they "always" do.

If you're so up tight about me then build me the models and I'll shut up. :D

Sweden - The One... And Only.

JediTricks
02-25-2005, 05:43 PM
I know about Galoob's Action Fleet line but I'm not familiar with it as you are but I can really imagine that the license with Lucas Film Limited was the soul reason to why the fine Action Fleet line got to be in totally different scales.No, they also did it for business reasons, they up-sized the Snowspeeder and a few other sets taking them out of scale to give a sense of value. Eventually, they made a second, smaller, in-scale version of Vader's TIE but only after a long time with the larger version.


Sure, the Ultimate Collector Series sets are models with no figures to interact with them but figures or not what's the fun in having a very huge 1:15 scale Snowspeeder on display along with the smaller 1:28 scale X-Wing Fighter? They're both big and impressive.


This would mean that the T.I.E. Interceptor a one man ship is almost twice as long as the Snowspeeder and when comparing the pilot with the ship there's no way at all that the T.I.E. Interceptor is almost 10 meters long or?

Why would the one man T.I.E. Interceptor be twice as long as the two man Snowspeeder because when comparing cockpit and pilot(s) of both of them the Snowspeeder would be a bit smaller but not "that" much smaller at least.
The TIE Interceptor is all wings, the main cockpit would still be smaller than the Snowspeeder, but the Snowspeeder has no wings at all and is nearly a third of the body dedicated to the back-to-back cockpit (taking interior room into account)


I do wonder what figures Gareth "Guybrush" Bowler used for his version of the Ultimate Collector Series Snowspeeder because as far as I know he has said that it's classic 1:28 scale but his model is much longer then 18 centimeters. I counted it at 36 cm, then measured a single stud and it's roughly half a cm with the area around it, so 36 / 2 = 18 cm, though his set does look larger than that in the photos.



To me and the way the Ultimate Collector Series was and is announced and even advertised this line is "supposed" to be scale models of different Star Wars subjects but in LEGO form built as close to scale and as detailed as is possible compared to the original filming miniatures and for different type of subjects different kind of scales were going to be used for this Star Wars line. I never saw that claim by Lego, they said they'd be the "ultimate" but never anything about being in scale with the other sets. In fact, until yesterday I didn't even know that the TIE Interceptor was in scale with the X-wing. It seems like this whole discussion is only about what YOU wanted and expected, and that's fine, but you're also coming down pretty hard on Lego for not living up to your singular wants and expectations.

And let's remember that the shooting props for these vehicles are in all sorts of different sizes, giant X-wings and tiny TIE Fighters, if Lego said they were making these based on the prop references they were given from LFL, we wouldn't be having this discussion.