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General_Grievous
02-26-2005, 02:18 PM
If Obi-Wan believes Anakin to be dead when he falls into the lava at the end of ROTS (which he probably will), then how does he know that Anakin is Darth Vader in ANH? More importantly, how is he aware of the existence of Darth Vader? He's been on Tatooine since just after Luke and Leia were born, and he was basically a hermit, keeping away from civilization and news of the Empire's reign. The same goes for Yoda as well. Is it through the Force?

scruffziller
02-26-2005, 02:53 PM
Very good point. I think the movie is the only one that can tell that. He may learn later after Vader emerges. Maybe he stages that he believes that Anakin is dead for everyone else but hides the truth of what happened.

sith_killer_99
02-26-2005, 03:48 PM
I would say yes, it must be through the Force. Obi-Wan was Anakin's master, so I am sure there is a connection between them. He probably feels Anakin survive, the same with Yoda.

General_Grievous
02-26-2005, 04:53 PM
I also have another point to bring up regarding the Prequel trilogy-Original trilogy continuity that also has to do with Episode 3. I just posted it here so I don't have to start up another thread.

In ANH, why does Leia state in the message that Obi-Wan served her father, Bail Organa, in the Clone Wars?

Sure, Obi-Wan was friends with Bail and they were almost like brothers in arms during the Clone Wars, but Obi-Wan never served under Bail during the wars. Obi-Wan only served the Jedi Order, and the Republic for a time. What gives? I'll bet Lucas is to blame.....:rolleyes:

Slicker
02-26-2005, 07:38 PM
In ANH, why does Leia state in the message that Obi-Wan served her father, Bail Organa, in the Clone Wars?Perhaps Bail could've been one of the leaders of the Republic in it's very last days and if Obi-Wan is a Gen. then he would therefore technically have served under Bail. From a certain point of view.;)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-26-2005, 09:27 PM
I also have another point to bring up regarding the Prequel trilogy-Original trilogy continuity that also has to do with Episode 3. I just posted it here so I don't have to start up another thread.

In ANH, why does Leia state in the message that Obi-Wan served her father, Bail Organa, in the Clone Wars?

Sure, Obi-Wan was friends with Bail and they were almost like brothers in arms during the Clone Wars, but Obi-Wan never served under Bail during the wars. Obi-Wan only served the Jedi Order, and the Republic for a time. What gives? I'll bet Lucas is to blame.....:rolleyes:
Obi-Wan worked for, or served, the Republic during the Clone Wars, and Bail Organa was a leading Republic senator. So yes, he did serve him. However in ROTS they spend more time together, when Padmé gives birth to the twins (as seen in the pics) and likey beforehand.

Kidhuman
02-26-2005, 10:17 PM
If Obi-Wan believes Anakin to be dead when he falls into the lava at the end of ROTS (which he probably will), then how does he know that Anakin is Darth Vader in ANH? More importantly, how is he aware of the existence of Darth Vader? He's been on Tatooine since just after Luke and Leia were born, and he was basically a hermit, keeping away from civilization and news of the Empire's reign. The same goes for Yoda as well. Is it through the Force?


I believe Anakin becomes Darth Vader before the end of the movie. Like Dooku, and Maul, he becomesa Darth and chose the name Vader. S otechnically,he knew he was Darth Vader beforehand....

General_Grievous
02-26-2005, 11:47 PM
I think KH's theory makes sense. But I don't know if Anakin will reveal himself as Vader to Obi-Wan.

I also have one final question;

Why is it that when Obi and Vader fight in ANH, Obi-Wan doesn't call him Anakin? Wouldn't Obi-Wan call him by the name he knew him better as instead of calling him by his Sith alias? I can imagine it now:

"The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master."

"Only a master of evil, Anakin."

"That name no longer has any meaning for me!"

Did GL just intentionally leave Anakin's name out until ROTJ? If so, why? It's not like he'd spoil anything by revealing only his first name. He would have left out his last name for obvious reasons.

sith_killer_99
02-27-2005, 12:19 AM
You just hit on a continuity error that many have asked before.

I tend to let it slide because of the way Obi-Wan calls him Darth.

"Only a master of evil Darth.

I prefer to think of it as Obi-Wan twisting the knife so to speak. He addresses him using the Sith title.

Remember what Yoda says about the Darkside "Quicker, easier more seductive".

From that frame of refrence it can be infered that Obi-Wan is down playing Anakins mastery of the force.

Slicker
02-27-2005, 12:21 AM
Why is it that when Obi and Vader fight in ANH, Obi-Wan doesn't call him Anakin? Wouldn't Obi-Wan call him by the name he knew him better as instead of calling him by his Sith alias? I can imagine it now:I don't think he called him Anakin because in Obi-Wan's eyes he wasn't REALLY Anakin, he was indeed Darth Vader the master of evil and not the friend Anakin supposedly became in the prequels. I've come to realize that in these movies Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker are considered 2 completely different people up until he is revealed in ROTJ. So if you think of it like that it may clear some things up.

chewie
02-27-2005, 12:30 AM
There is a leaked photo showing Obi-Wan looking at a holographic recording of Anakin kneeling before Sidious. I can only assume the recording is of Anakin's Sith initiation where he assumes the title Darth Vader. As a result Obi-Wan knows who Darth Vader is and that he is still alive after the events of RotS since Vader becomes a prominent figure in the empire.

2-1B
02-27-2005, 03:22 AM
Well said, Chewie. :)

As for why Obi-Wan doesn't call DV "Anakin" on DS1, well we do know that Lucas wasn't a lock to make 5 and 6, and he hadn't FULLY decided yet that Darth Vader was Luke's dad for sure, so as far as I'm concerned Obers called him "Darth" because his name was literally just Darth Vader.

Since things did play out the way they did, then I like the idea that Obi is chiding Anakin for taking the name Darth Vader and that's why he calls him that. :)

Tycho
02-27-2005, 03:28 AM
I don't think Anakin will get the Sith name and title until he is encased in black armor.

The Republic knows his face as Anakin Skywalker anyway. Sith use their "Darth aliases" to hide their identity as Dooku used Tyranus when the Kaminoans didn't need to know who he really was (though all we know he talked to Jango Fett, who knew both his names).

I also don't think Anakin SHOULD get his name and title until he is encased in his armor.


Meanwhile, though I have heard nothing of this, I would have Obi-Wan meet Darth Vader again in the movie, this time when Obi-Wan had baby Luke.

Anakin makes a deal with the Devil (palpatine) his life, for that of his son's. Obi-Wan is like his father, so Vader tells him to take Luke to family on Tatooine, (out of the Empire, since Tatooine was also not in the Republic either), and that is why they don't change Luke's name. Vader knows exactly where he is, but the Emperor garauntees Luke's safety as long as Vader loyally serves him. Obi-Wan is not to come back - ever.

Well in ANH, Vader says to him "You should not have come back!"

He knew. Perhaps Palpatine did as well. I like the "Deal with the Devil" type of approach, and that Vader offers his life for his son's. Later (on Endor) when he tells Luke that "[He] must obey his master!" It is because he is protecting Luke (amongst other things, like his assumption that Palpatine is more powerful than him). When Palpatine decides to kill Luke at the end of ROTJ, he recinds his bargain and Vader makes him pay for breaking his promise!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
02-27-2005, 01:09 PM
I don't think Anakin will get the Sith name and title until he is encased in black armor.
Oh really?
http://www.galactichunter.com/absoluteig/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=3511&text=&imageid=13010&box=&shownew=
Take a good look at the package - Anakin without armor, but called Darth Vader. I think he'll definitely be called Vader before he gets the suit, I mean Palpatine made him his apprentice before he was ruined by Obi-Wan. Otherwise, he likely wouldn't have made him apprentice.

Tycho
02-27-2005, 01:58 PM
I think that's a marketing ploy by Hasbro JabbaJohnL.

JEDIpartner
02-27-2005, 05:15 PM
Possibly...

One thing you forget about is that Obi-Wan even tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father. Right then and there, he KNOWS that Anakin's assumed identity is "Darth Vader" at some point between Anakin's alliance with the Sith and A New Hope.

hango fett
02-27-2005, 06:38 PM
the reason obi-wan never really says anikan in ANH, especially when obi talks to luke about his father and stuff, is because he didn't want luke to know his father was vader. he keeps it secret till vader tells him in ESB, which we all know.
there. my 2 cent is spent.
HF

2-1B
02-27-2005, 06:50 PM
Tycho, according to ESB (at least, the new ESB :D ) it seems to imply that Palps doesn't know about Luke . . . so I don't think he could be involved in any deals ?

I don't think Darth _____________ is only used for a secret identity, I see it as a sign of "Conversion", if you will, to the dark side of the Force. :)

JEDIpartner
02-27-2005, 09:27 PM
I don't think Darth _____________ is only used for a secret identity, I see it as a sign of "Conversion", if you will, to the dark side of the Force. :)

I think it's like being knighted by royalty in England and getting the prefix "Sir" attached to one's name.