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JediTricks
03-11-2005, 04:47 PM
A lot has been made of the follow passage from ESB:
LUKE: Still...there's something familiar about this place.
People often suggest that Luke had to have been there in his past, possibly as a baby or originally that it was Naboo and therefore it's his mother's feelings he senses. I don't believe any of that is accurate though, my theory has always been that he senses that Yoda has been watching him throughout his life. Vader sensed Ben in ANH and acted similarly, he sensed something, a feeling he had not felt for a long time, since.... That's a person he's sensing through the Force, but he's a trained Jedi who knows to look for what the Force tells him where Luke is not. When you examine the entire exchange on Dagobah, it tells a different story:
LUKE: Still...there's something familiar about this place. I feel like...I don't know...

STRANGE VOICE: Feel like what?

LUKE: (grabbing blaster) Like we're being watched!
Now, it can be argued that Luke's response is merely his response to finding out that a little freaky guy is invading his personal space, but what if Luke's answer is what he was thinking all along and Yoda's appearance merely shook it out of Luke's mouth? Then Luke's familiarity comes from sensing being watched by Yoda and not understanding what that familarity feeling meant. This is backed up by a small piece of dialogue later when Yoda explains to Ben and Luke why the boy is not ready to become a Jedi:
YODA: (to Ben's spirit, referring to Luke) This one a long time have I watched.
Yoda continues on proving he wasn't just looking at Luke through a hidden camera or something so detached by referring to who Luke really is inside:
YODA: (continued) Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not thesethings. (turning to Luke) You are reckless!
Yoda isn't talking about simply thumbing through a book of photos that get sent to him now and then, he's referring to the boy's character, something he could only know by really observing him, and since Yoda did so by using the Force, I submit that he created a Force connection to Luke and that this is what Luke is sensing when he first lands on Dagobah. Perhaps Luke also has a connection to the location through Yoda, but I don't believe the line ever suggests that a conscious Luke has ever actually BEEN to Dagobah before this. Am I off-base?

JON9000
03-11-2005, 04:51 PM
WE may find out at the end of the new movie. I never really thought about it before, but it is interesting.

General_Grievous
03-11-2005, 05:12 PM
I always thought that Luke had some of Anakin's power passed on to him, so he can somewhat see into the future. I think he had a dream of Dagobah in the past, either on Tatooine or while he was with the Rebellion. Hence he says "It's like something out of a dream".

Just my theory.

Kidhuman
03-11-2005, 06:58 PM
I always thought that Luke had some of Anakin's power passed on to him, so he can somewhat see into the future. I think he had a dream of Dagobah in the past, either on Tatooine or while he was with the Rebellion. Hence he says "It's like something out of a dream".

Just my theory.


I always thought the same thing.

Slicker
03-11-2005, 08:05 PM
I never really thought on it but I would think that Yoda and Ben took Luke to Dagobah, Yoda stayed and Ben took Luke to Tatooine.

Rocketboy
03-11-2005, 09:13 PM
Interesting theory JT.
I like it much better than the idea that Luke has been to Dagobah idea.

I kinda the idea that Bail "designated driver" Organa dropped Yoda off on Dagobah, before stopping at Tatooine to drop off Obi-Wan and Luke then heading home with Leia, which seemed like pretty a dumb idea.

stillakid
03-11-2005, 10:02 PM
I don't think that its necessary to read too much into Luke's line of dialogue. I mean, we have a broken Luke stumbling through the snow and near unconscious when Spirit Ben shows up. To someone in Luke's condition, he's bound to only remember this as one of those "did I really see that or was it just a dream" moments.

So cut to him flying to Dagobah. How'd he know which way to point the ship? It's all conjecture for sure, but my own personal point of view on it is that Ben either gave him Luke the "suggestion" (the directions) on Hoth or mabye Ben was "guiding" Luke actively from the beyond. Something along those lines.

So anyway, with either of those scenarios, it is then plausible to believe that along with the "directions" to Yoda's planet came some extraneous "ideas" about what the planet looked like. So when Luke does finally arrive, lo and behold, it feels familiar. No real mystery here I think. But what the hell do I know? :ermm:

2-1B
03-12-2005, 04:13 AM
JT, I love your line of thinking here. I never really thought of a connection between he and Yoda like that but it makes perfect sense to me. Yoda did indeed "watch" Luke his whole life but Luke would of course have no clue. That is, not until he started to learn about the Force and began some training of his own. By the time he gets to Dagobah he is already somewhat skilled (a mini-crash course with Ben before his death and that Force-grab of the lightsaber on Hoth didn't just happen out of the blue ;) ) so it makes perfect sense that he would then be open to that connection that he had with Yoda his whole life.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-12-2005, 09:44 AM
Whenever I have a SW-related question, and I've exhausted my E1 Pizza Hut Yoda Magic Cube and Sabaac Tarot Cards and Dexter's Diner Coupon Book, :p I think of Willow. Lucas said that that film was part of his original ideas for SW (a little person as the Luke character, rescuing a princess from a castle place, sword fighting, older/more cynical "worldy" good guy, etc.). Sadly, I don't remember many details specifically, and few character names. Wasn't there something with the baby princess that the witch wanted, like a power object? And couldn't she sense when she was nearby? Maybe Luke's connection to the Chosen One (and, therefore, Leia's as well) makes him imprinted (like ducklings) to a close mentor or relative.

But I still go with the Dagobah-is-Naboo theory. Either that, or Luke remembers the damp, wet swamps of Tatooine. :rolleyes:

p.s. This is my 1983rd post.

scruffziller
03-12-2005, 10:41 AM
But I still go with the Dagobah-is-Naboo theory.

That theory was disproven in the new release of the DVDs last September, hence we see Naboo at the end of ROTJ much like it was in TPM.


I don't think that its necessary to read too much into Luke's line of dialogue. I mean, we have a broken Luke stumbling through the snow and near unconscious when Spirit Ben shows up. To someone in Luke's condition, he's bound to only remember this as one of those "did I really see that or was it just a dream" moments.

So cut to him flying to Dagobah. How'd he know which way to point the ship? It's all conjecture for sure, but my own personal point of view on it is that Ben either gave him Luke the "suggestion" (the directions) on Hoth or mabye Ben was "guiding" Luke actively from the beyond. Something along those lines.

So anyway, with either of those scenarios, it is then plausible to believe that along with the "directions" to Yoda's planet came some extraneous "ideas" about what the planet looked like. So when Luke does finally arrive, lo and behold, it feels familiar. No real mystery here I think. But what the hell do I know? :ermm:

If that was the case, the line would never had been uttered. We know all about the practicalities in the SW universe, but the movies are being made to explore the mysteriousness of the force and its nature. You could say that about Ben's "guidance" but that implementation(if applicable) is old news, new ground is being covered at that point in the movie, because Yoda had/has taken over. Most of the time we may forget that we need to understand that this is GL's story and not a documentary. So you can gather alot of the meanings behind the mystery by following the story progression and understand what George and his writers/directors are trying to say. Usually this only comes about from watching them several times. To stray from it, is to lose the understanding of the nature of the SW universe. I would say that JT's explanation(if GL didn't think of it himself) would be chosen as cannon by GL rather than Stilla's. (or were you joking around?:sur: lol , and gave us a bunk explanation to give yourself a few chuckles)

JT: EXCELLENT explanation behind the mystery of that statement. With Yoda watching Luke's life through his eyes and Luke feeling familiarity, I would describe it as almost a SW version of "the mind meld".:D They would know each others thoughts. But like you guys were saying, Luke was having it done to him without his knowledge and having no idea why the impression of Dagobah is in his mind.

Bel-Cam Jos
03-12-2005, 09:55 PM
That theory was disproven in the new release of the DVDs last September, hence we see Naboo at the end of ROTJ much like it was in TPM.Just like Sebastian Shaw no longer as Anakin, right? :mad: But, I had forgotten about that detail from ROJ, so I owe you all a Bad Song Lyric of Shame for my error:

"In you I feel so hungry,
In you I crash cars..."

Rocketboy
03-12-2005, 10:04 PM
Just like Sebastian Shaw no longer as Anakin, right? :mad: Sebastian is still Anakin...but now he's employed only part-time in Jedi.
:D

scruffziller
03-13-2005, 05:03 AM
Just like Sebastian Shaw no longer as Anakin, right? :mad: But, I had forgotten about that detail from ROJ, so I owe you all a Bad Song Lyric of Shame for my error:

"In you I feel so hungry,
In you I crash cars..."

Oh come on Bel-Cam no hard feelings, just friendly SW discussion.:)

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Very mild ROTS spoilers ahead . . .

That's very interesting JT, and a good theory. Could Luke have been familiar with Yoda's presence or the place itself? I believe that Yoda is there when Luke and Leia are born, and maybe he then vows to keep a watchful eye on them through the Force? I doubt that Obi-Wan would take Luke to Dagobah with Yoda before heading to Tatooine, but it's possible. Then the line in ESB would be more sensical to casual viewers who haven't thought as you did, and have a few different meanings.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

JediTricks
03-13-2005, 09:13 PM
So cut to him flying to Dagobah. How'd he know which way to point the ship? It's all conjecture for sure, but my own personal point of view on it is that Ben either gave him Luke the "suggestion" (the directions) on Hoth or mabye Ben was "guiding" Luke actively from the beyond. Something along those lines.It's because the Dagobah system is in the navicomputer. What would the point of Ben telling Luke to go to the Dagobah system if it wasn't something Luke wouldn't have known? He could have just said "seek out Yoda, seeeek out Yoooooda! Ooooh!" and then guided him thusly. Why would Luke bother telling R2 that they're going to the Dagobah system if that didn't mean something to the little droid? He didn't say "we're going... somewhere". Heck, R2 even offers to take him there and Luke says he'd prefer to leave controls on manual.


So anyway, with either of those scenarios, it is then plausible to believe that along with the "directions" to Yoda's planet came some extraneous "ideas" about what the planet looked like.First off, I don't think your original theory holds water. Second, we aren't shown ANYTHING suggesting that the Force is leading Luke to the planet yet we're shown everything else the Force does in the films through a noise or a voice or a camera angle. Third, if Luke had any idea what Dagobah was like, why would he be surprised that the planet had no technology when he got there?



That's very interesting JT, and a good theory. Could Luke have been familiar with Yoda's presence or the place itself? Thanks John. I was thinking that possibly Luke was familiar with the place THROUGH his familiarity through Yoda, but I wasn't totally set on that really and could understand arguments going either way.

Turambar
03-14-2005, 06:53 PM
Thanks John. I was thinking that possibly Luke was familiar with the place THROUGH his familiarity through Yoda, but I wasn't totally set on that really and could understand arguments going either way.

One could argue for this theory from yoda's line, "this one, a long time have I watched." and assume maybe being closer to the source that had been watching him his whole life caused the feeling of familiarity.

stillakid
03-14-2005, 11:21 PM
It's because the Dagobah system is in the navicomputer.
Says who?

Plus, I vaguely recall reading somewhere (perhaps in the novelization) that Yoda had, via the Force, somehow masked the presence of Dagobah from everyone. Sort of like the way Kamino wasn't visible to star charts, only that Yoda kept Dagobah "hidden" so that Palpatine and Vader couldn't find him.



What would the point of Ben telling Luke to go to the Dagobah system if it wasn't something Luke wouldn't have known? He could have just said "seek out Yoda, seeeek out Yoooooda! Ooooh!" and then guided him thusly. Why would Luke bother telling R2 that they're going to the Dagobah system if that didn't mean something to the little droid? He didn't say "we're going... somewhere". Heck, R2 even offers to take him there and Luke says he'd prefer to leave controls on manual.
Ben's information specifying Dagobah was for the benefit of us, the audience. It is better than just saying, "You will seek out Yoda." Just leaving it at that would set up the scenario where we'd have to have an elaborate illustration of Luke channeling the Force to get there. By including "You will go to the Dagobah system," it gives the audience the idea that Luke has a specific place to aim for even if he doesn't have specific directions.

As for the R2 thing, my personal take on that all these years is that R2 doesn't trust Luke's judgement at this point in the story and was planning on a sort of mutiny. If you don't want to believe that, then at the very least, Luke had already pointed the ship at the Dagobah system and all R2 or the autopilot would have had to do was to keep flying in a straight line. No big mystery there.


First off, I don't think your original theory holds water.
Sure it does, as much as any other suggestion since it's all conjecture.



Second, we aren't shown ANYTHING suggesting that the Force is leading Luke to the planet yet we're shown everything else the Force does in the films through a noise or a voice or a camera angle.
No, and we're not shown or led to believe anything else either. Which is why every theory is as viable as any other. :) But again, I'll point you to my comment about why Dagobah is specified above. Sometimes not everything on screen is only for the characters. Some information has to be provided specifically for the audience.



Third, if Luke had any idea what Dagobah was like, why would he be surprised that the planet had no technology when he got there?I never thought he was surprised, as in being surprised in learning anything one way or another. He merely says, "No signs of technology, but massive lifeform readings. There's something alive down there." The most obvious meaning in this dialogue is that Luke expected absolutely nothing. He had no idea what to expect. And his surprise comes in finding that there is a lot of life but no cities or anything suggesting civilization. I merely suggested that Ben gave him "directions" via "suggestion," not that Ben gave Luke a detailed dossier regarding the geography of Dagobah.

As to Luke's "surprise" at "being watched," it doesn't necessarily have anything at all to do with Luke being watched from afar by Yoda all his life. I mean, even I can sense to a degree when somebody creeps up to stand 4 feet away from me behind my back. A great deal of your theory tries to tie Luke and Yoda together with this small easily explained and innocent action by Luke. To borrow a phrase, "I think you're reading too much into it." :D

JediTricks
03-15-2005, 01:20 AM
Sure it does, as much as any other suggestion since it's all conjecture.I think yours doesn't hold because it's conjecture based primarily on MORE conjecture. R2 was planning a mutiny, Ben told Luke that he was going to the Dagobah system for the sake of the audience but then used his Force influence without showing it to that same audience. My theory is grounded in what we're actually given on-screen, yours is based around what we're NOT given and your own personal EU.


No, and we're not shown or led to believe anything else either. By that claim, since we didn't see it Luke could have also stopped off at Burger King on the way and then taken a side-trip to Naboo to visit his mother's grave, then beamed up to the Enterprise and got in an argument with Captain Kirk. My theory actually is based on what we see, what the audience is given, Ben telling Luke to go to the Dagobah system, Luke telling R2 they're going to the Dagobah system, and R2 asking Luke if he wants R2 to pilot the ship. Do we hear Force sounds leading the way, do we see Luke confused about where Dagobah is or why it's not on the map, do we see Luke searching at all for Dagobah? No, none of that is shown to the audience, yet isn't that the basis for your theory?


I never thought he was surprised, as in being surprised in learning anything one way or another. He merely says, "No signs of technology, but massive lifeform readings. There's something alive down there."Here's how the script has it:

LUKE: (getting a little nervous) I'm not picking up any cities or technology. Massive life-form readings, though. There's something alive down there...
That's the way Hamill played it, I felt. After that, Luke is caught off-guard when the X-wing starts crashing into the planet. Once Luke and R2 have crash-landed, he tells R2 he doesn't know what he's doing there and perhaps going there was a mistake. I took that all as something unexpected to him, thus surprising. None of which suggests Luke feels confident that he's there, that he's doing the right thing, that the Force has guided his trip there.


I merely suggested that Ben gave him "directions" via "suggestion," not that Ben gave Luke a detailed dossier regarding the geography of Dagobah. Actually, you also suggested that Ben somehow gave Luke a sense of what to expect when he got there. "It is then plausible to believe that along with the "directions" to Yoda's planet came some extraneous "ideas" about what the planet looked like."


To borrow a phrase, "I think you're reading too much into it." :D Ho ho, that's rich, talk about the pot calling the kettle "black"! Even if you accept my evidence as small, it's not just in the "like we're being watched!" line but later when Yoda talks about watching Luke all his life, about knowing Luke's mindset, details that couldn't have been gathered from mere casual observation. I at least have a connecting thread between my points to create a theory, where's YOUR evidence? You're reading so much into nothing at all, I believe that also goes by the term "making it up".

stillakid
03-15-2005, 11:50 AM
I think yours doesn't hold because it's conjecture based primarily on MORE conjecture. R2 was planning a mutiny, Ben told Luke that he was going to the Dagobah system for the sake of the audience but then used his Force influence without showing it to that same audience. My theory is grounded in what we're actually given on-screen, yours is based around what we're NOT given and your own personal EU.

By that claim, since we didn't see it Luke could have also stopped off at Burger King on the way and then taken a side-trip to Naboo to visit his mother's grave, then beamed up to the Enterprise and got in an argument with Captain Kirk. My theory actually is based on what we see, what the audience is given, Ben telling Luke to go to the Dagobah system, Luke telling R2 they're going to the Dagobah system, and R2 asking Luke if he wants R2 to pilot the ship. Do we hear Force sounds leading the way, do we see Luke confused about where Dagobah is or why it's not on the map, do we see Luke searching at all for Dagobah? No, none of that is shown to the audience, yet isn't that the basis for your theory?

As a broad sweeping statement, I can't really argue my ideas any more than I already have, being that, like I said, this entire thread is conjecture.

Be that as it may, let's look again at the sequence of events. Luke is lost in the snow after being beaten up by the Abominable Snowman. R2 is concerned and continues his "search" even after 3PO goes back inside for a warm cup of oil. Luke, bloodied and beaten, sees (presumably for the first time since Ben's death), Ben's ghostly apparition. Was it a dream? Luke passes out before we get a sense of his take on this. Cut to Luke flying in his X-Wing with R2 behind him. Luke unexpectedly doesn't aim for the fleet and R2 questions him about it. R2, not being a stupid robot, is concerned about Luke's mental state after his run-in with the snow monster and asks if maybe Luke would like to rest (which on the surface, is essentially the point of having R2 take over). Whether R2 planned a mutiny after Luke gave up the controls is pure speculation, but the point is that I think its highly clear that R2 wasn't exactly confident in Luke's decision to not join the fleet, especially after the chain of events leading up to this moment.

Now, what's this about "Force sounds?" I mean, when have we EVER heard Force sounds? The only visual indication we ever got that somebody was using the Force was that grimmace on the face as if they were taking a huge dump. That or the "move the hands through the air" thing as if that motion moved the energy field around or something. That being the case, I don't see any viable application regarding visual reference when it comes to Ben or the Force itself "guiding" Luke to Dagobah. We didn't see any such thing when Luke made the winning shot in the Death Star trench and I wouldn't expect to see one here either. He wasn't moving anything around or opening any doors.


Here's how the script has it:

LUKE: (getting a little nervous) I'm not picking up any cities or technology. Massive life-form readings, though. There's something alive down there...
That's the way Hamill played it, I felt. After that, Luke is caught off-guard when the X-wing starts crashing into the planet. Once Luke and R2 have crash-landed, he tells R2 he doesn't know what he's doing there and perhaps going there was a mistake. I took that all as something unexpected to him, thus surprising. None of which suggests Luke feels confident that he's there, that he's doing the right thing, that the Force has guided his trip there.
Ah, here's the rub. Also conjecture on my part, but I take this part of the sequence as indicating just how "naive" and "inexperienced" Luke really is. He's coming to Dagobah to, ostensibly, grow up and really become a man. He took his first steps toward "manhood" in ANH and we see him stumbling along with his new-found skills at the beginning of ESB. But he needs more which is why he is led to Dagobah. So his initial steps onto this new world illustrate his doubt, his fear. This sets up Luke's attitude as a counter-point to when he will eventually approach the unknown without this hesitation.

So the end result is that Luke's dialogue isn't referring back to the machinations that made this journey possible, but rather his overall attitude and dialogue are meant to set up and illustrate Luke as a frightened child entering a strange new world.


Actually, you also suggested that Ben somehow gave Luke a sense of what to expect when he got there. "It is then plausible to believe that along with the "directions" to Yoda's planet came some extraneous "ideas" about what the planet looked like."

Ho ho, that's rich, talk about the pot calling the kettle "black"! Even if you accept my evidence as small, it's not just in the "like we're being watched!" line but later when Yoda talks about watching Luke all his life, about knowing Luke's mindset, details that couldn't have been gathered from mere casual observation. I at least have a connecting thread between my points to create a theory, where's YOUR evidence? You're reading so much into nothing at all, I believe that also goes by the term "making it up".

Perhaps, but again, I don't think that any of the ideas suggested here are necessarily airtight from anyone. My "evidence" is above, constructed from a more global review of ALL the events across the saga while yours are derived from an almost claustrophic interpretation of the events from only those two locations (Luke's X-Wing and Dagobah). But our ideas are not really that far apart. I suggest that Spirit Ben's "guidance" somehow injected Luke with an idea about Dagobah which would account for the place feeling familiar. Your idea is practically the same, only in yours, Yoda is the source of the injection. Either way, Luke's mind inadvertently receives some kind of information regarding Dagobah which results in him saying, "there's something familiar about this place."

CropDuster
03-18-2005, 09:28 AM
I always thought along similar lines of your theory JT, however I believed that yoda's force presence only caused a familiar feeling and not a revelation of past supervision or a special "connection" (not until he told him that he had watched him, which is when luke probably put 2 and 2 together). I assumed that since everything was intertwined with the force that it enabled him to watch luke's progression through life. No need for a special force connection. I never thought any of the other force users had any special force connections. Maybe I missed something.
As far as Dagobah goes I always assumed it was on the navcomputer; it was a swamp, full of life, just no indications of intelligent lifeforms. There isn't anything in the movie that suggests otherwise. Also, I never detected a chance of r2 committing mutiny, that's ridiculous. What I did think was somewhat odd, which has probably already been talked about, was how luke managed to land in just the right spot on the entire surface of the planet dagobah to be close to yoda's home. That must be billion-to-one odds. I always just figured it was the force commanding luke's destiny. However, I suppose that would be me using conjecture :eek: .

rbaumhauer
03-18-2005, 10:21 AM
From the ESB novelization:

"Yes, Artoo, I know the Dagobah system doesn't appear on any of our navigational charts. But don't worry. It's there."

Don't have an opinion on the main topic, but this should at least settle the tangential issue.

Rick

JediTricks
03-18-2005, 08:46 PM
Sorry, but the novels mean about as much to me as a festering bowl of dog-snot. (Anybody who gets that reference earns 2 points ;)). They're pretty EU, written after-the-fact by writers who didn't work on the original screenplays and are allowed free reign so long as it doesn't interfere with anything in the film.


As for Luke's crash-landing, I never thought about it before (even though my poor turtles bore the brunt of its re-enactment in their tank over and over via the fine Kenner products and my irresponsible 5-year-old behavior ;)), but maybe Yoda himself brought the X-wing down in that spot after shutting its systems down perhaps as another test for Luke.

rbaumhauer
03-18-2005, 09:42 PM
JT - you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the novelizations are far from being considered EU. They, along with the radio dramas, are considered by LFL to be just behind the films themselves in terms of "canonicity". Given the specificity of the line quoted, I don't think there's much point in arguing against it - I mean, come on, if stillakid was trying to use your logic, you'd fry him for it :)

Rick

JediTricks
03-18-2005, 11:18 PM
Stilla has tried to use that "well, they're 'more' canon than the other books" argument before, when convincing us of Owen's relationship to Ben. I agreed with him then that it worked there better than this step-uncle thing from the PT, but ultimately I couldn't agree that it should be accepted as canon because it shouldn't. Lucas himself has said the only canon is what's onscreen and everything else is not; and that apparently is only what's onscreen NOW, not the last version either. :mad: But the end result is the same, Ani didn't really have a dream about leading vast Jedi armies in TPM before meeting Qui-Gon, Owen isn't Ben's brother in ROTJ.

rbaumhauer
03-19-2005, 12:43 AM
Point taken, but when it doesn't contradict something established in the movies, I think the novelizations are as close to canon as you're going to get. The quote from the ESB novelization doesn't contradict anything from the movie - it just doesn't agree with your theory about what was happening ;)

Rick

stillakid
03-19-2005, 08:59 AM
Here is a link back to a post I had made regarding Donald F. Glut and ESB.

http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showpost.php?p=352311&postcount=46


I still maintain that as the novels were approved by Lucas and/or Lucasfilm and based directly on the screenplays, they are as close to canon as we're going to get next to the films themselves.

2-1B
03-20-2005, 12:31 PM
You know what, I'm surprised LFL hasn't gone back and edited the novelizations to fit movie continuity. Obvious example: Owen as Ben's brother/Anakin's stepbrother.

I know these books are still available on the shelves, so why haven't they gone back in and tinkered with them ? George did it with the movies, so why are these books protected ? :crazed:

darthvyn
03-20-2005, 12:41 PM
Sorry, but the novels mean about as much to me as a festering bowl of dog-snot. (Anybody who gets that reference earns 2 points ;)).

three letters. U.H.F.

darthvyn, 2 points.

JediTricks
03-20-2005, 07:55 PM
three letters. U.H.F.

darthvyn, 2 points.
Excellent! You have done well, enjoy your points... WHILE THEY LAST! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

;)



Point taken, but when it doesn't contradict something established in the movies, I think the novelizations are as close to canon as you're going to get.Well, Lucaslogic™ says that in the world of SW canon, "almost doesn't count except in horseshoes and handgrenades". ;) I don't think there's a real answer to be found there, we don't know for sure if it's part of the story or not and I think the film suggests otherwise. We never hear the rumbling sound like when Vader is choking someone, we don't hear Obi-Wan guiding Luke when he points the ship to Dagobah, all we see FOR SURE is that Luke is told to go to the Dagobah system, then we see him changing course to go to Dagobah and R2 offers to take the trip on autopilot. Everything else is "almost" territory, like Obi-Wan's saber burning out in TPM because it doesn't have a flashback seal, it's not strictly contradicted by AOTC's rain battle yet I believe the novel has it and the ref books delve into the technological reason it happened.



Here is a link back to a post I had made regarding Donald F. Glut and ESB....

I still maintain that as the novels were approved by Lucas and/or Lucasfilm and based directly on the screenplays, they are as close to canon as we're going to get next to the films themselves.Yeah, but the guy doesn't totally back what you had been claiming there, and you kinda stepped on your own toes there only a few posts later: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=24845&page=11&pp=5

stillakid
03-20-2005, 11:26 PM
\Yeah, but the guy doesn't totally back what you had been claiming there, and you kinda stepped on your own toes there only a few posts later: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=24845&page=11&pp=5

Well, it's only a movie afterall. :D

Rappertuniewa
05-25-2005, 01:58 AM
Just a thought:

Dagobah is a planet teeming with life, correct?

So all this life centered in one place would be contribute to alot of, i don't know, force energy? being exuded from it. Perhaps Luke would be picking up all sorts of thoughts and feelings from various creatures as he approaches dagobah without even realizing it due to his ineptitude in the force, and these feelings would make things seem somewhat familiar once he's actually on the surface. Like i said, just a thought.

I like JT's ideas about this alot, and i'd bet he's pretty much dead on.

megaprime33
05-28-2005, 07:26 AM
In the scene where he first lands and takes a look around and says, "There's something familiar about this place." Has that been explained at all? Why does a slimy mudhole seems familiar to him?

sith_killer_99
05-28-2005, 07:49 AM
Most likely answer. It was a throw away line by Lucas, designed to build tension and add an air of mystery to the scene. This is a common technique used by writers.

Other answers could be.

Luke felt the strong essence of the Force there and it felt familiar to him.

Luke was secretly stashed on Dagobah for 6 months when he was only a year old because the Emipre had decided to hunt for him on Tatooine. An insider in the Empire warned Obi-Wan who was Luke's sworn protector. So to keep Luke safe until the hunt had ended he took the youngster to Dagobah to visit "Uncle Yoda". Of course, Luke was too young to remember all of this so... :crazed:

Beast
05-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Yoda: "This one, a long time I have watched. All his life as he looked away, to the future, to the horizon, never his mind on where he was, what he was doin'."

Yoda's been obviously watching over Luke via the force, likely ever since he went into exile. So Luke detected the familar 'Force Signature' of Yoda. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

The Overlord Returns
05-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Well, initially I had expected the twins to be born on Dagobah, however that did not occur. Now, I believe he is simply feeling Yoda's presence more acutely, something that has been with him since he is an infant.

2-1B
05-29-2005, 12:31 AM
Luke says there's something familiar about this place, like he was being watched. Yoda was literally watching him from behind and then later in the movie Luke learns that Yoda watched him for a long time.

There's the familiarity connection.

JimJamBonds
05-29-2005, 10:17 AM
Yup I agree, its Yoda's watching that gives him the familar feel not the planet itself.

JJ