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BFett88
03-16-2005, 09:47 PM
Does anyone feel that Hasbro is just giving us a bunch of rehash figures. I know that all of these figures have new sculpts. But does anyone fell that they are buying figures that they already have. First, all of the Jedi; all of them are the same Jedi from Episode 2. Then you have another C3PO and R2, then another Vader and Royal Guard. Some of these figures have there differences, but over half of the new figures are of characters that have already been made. Does anyone else feel a little frustrated that they are not really getting anything new?

Warryyr
03-17-2005, 09:43 AM
For my tastes/needs, I agree. I don't need another R2-D2, C-3PO, Ani, Obi, etc. I do like the fact that some of the jedi are being redone with articulation for multiple poses, rather than one action pose. But, this will help my financial situation like others were discussing in another forum. Since I dont want/need all of these figures, I should be able to get everything I do want. I do have a problem with other lines that keep using the same characters. My 5 year old son loves the Galactic Heroes and we have everything up to the ROTS line. My problem is that the new line has yet another Obi to get GG, another yoda to get the Emperor, another Ani to get Dooku (I've always hated that they do this type of thing all the time with Luke). Please stop with the same characters and give us new ones, and in the case of the Galactic heroes--two packs of new/different characters

Slicker
03-17-2005, 10:08 AM
I don't see how SW as a toy line could even be around WITHOUT rehashes. What I think you're saying is that we've already got one of each of the figs coming out albeit in different outfits. Without making them in different outfits we'd have, what, something like just 100 figs at the very, very most. I don't like it but without rehashes I wouldn't be in the collecting biz.

dindae
03-17-2005, 10:36 AM
I agree with Slicker. With the new movie they are going to release all main charcters. I expect this and its necessary to attact new collectors. I couldn't imagine this line of toys without a Vader in it. So as long as they are going to have these characters on the shelves I'm glad they aren't recarding them and tried to improve on the existing sculpts. That being said I can certainly undstand after collecting after all these years that new knee articulation is not going to make everyone spring for a new Kit Fisto.

jedi master sal
03-17-2005, 11:27 AM
As a person who was lucky enough to get the first 26 ROTS figs (minus #9 Grievous), I have to STRONGLY disagree about the alleged rehashes.

These figs are AWESOME!

The articulation alone sets them well apart from anything that we've seen in the past. I was looking them over again last night for the fun of it.

Here are some examples but by no means an extensive review:
Plo Koon- Better sculpt, Well articulated.
Kit Fisto-while rather pale compared to his AOTC cousin, much better in the articulation area.
Obi and Ani are older thereby demanding new figs. Their collective appeearance has change enough to warrant new figs.
Shaak Ti-IMHO one of the best of the fist couple dozen. Improvements to articulation (though the left arm is bent at a strange angle), she has a PLEATED soft goods skirt that is Excellent! Articulated knees as well.
Royal Guard-Maybe the best surprise of all! Compete soft goods cape with ARMOR underneath. That's a Carnor Jax/Kir Kanos custom if I've ever seen one, waiting to happen.
Vader is one of the best ever made. And you really can't have enough Vader's, IMHO
C-3PO-you'll just have to see this in person to really appreciate the wonderful job Hasbro has done with this 3PO. Absolutely the best 3PO EVER!
Super Battle Droid-remember how we didn't like that the arm couldn't swivel to firing position. Well while it doesn't swivel, it is in the firing position, which makes it a perfect army builder for not only ROST, but AOTC. Now we can go back and put some firing SBD's in our dioramas or shelf set-ups.
Count Dooku-three words "Soft Goods Cape"! Good articulation and the cape with a good sculpt of the face make this a much better representation of Dooku that you can replace in your AOTC scenes!
Battle Droid-while the standard far BD from AOTC, but dirty tan instead, it's a welcome fig. Army builders will be out to get this one in droves!
Agen Kolar-do you really want that schmuck of an Agen that Hasbro was trying to push off on us in the Jedi Council scenes? I don't and the ROTS one TOTALLY fits the bill, not only for ROTS but again for Arena scene in AOTC.

Now some I've forgotten off hand, but I can tell you I'm completely satisfied with this batch of figs. Looking forward to some of the other ones, we can take note that Hasbro has again outdid itse;f with articulation.
Take into account:
Saesee Tiin-again a matter of articulation that plays well for both ROTS and AOTC.
Luminara Unduli-do you really want to be sitting with a webshooting Luminara only? The new one is most excellent in articulation!. Only thing needed is an outer robe, but other than that, MUCH beeter than it's AOTC predecessor!
Aayla Secura-Ah the Blue Buttery Goodness of a Twi'Lek never looked better. Much improved articulation makes this a must have fig!

So, if you're just looking to have one rendition only of the fig and are not opening it up and don't care about collecting different carded lines then fine, don't get these figs.

BUT! If you're looking for the best renditions to date of these characters, then collecting ROTS figures is the way to go!

I can honestly say that Hasbro has put the fun back into the figures!

They've allowed us the opportunity of posing them as WE wish, instead of giving us one pose wonders or limited poseability.

Now go out and buy those toys!

Respectfully submitted,
-Sal

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-17-2005, 11:33 AM
Rehashes are figures using old parts of other figures. These are resculpts.

Anyway, I think it's good that we're getting new versions of old characters. The new Count Dooku is really great, even though we already have four or five versions of him. The same goes for all the other Jedi that are coming out again with enhanced articulation and better sculpting. And even if you have 15 C-3POs, you have to get the new one. It's perfect!

It's important for Hasbro to keep these characters on the shelves. A little kid who likes Ki-Adi-Mundi isn't going to go on eBay to get the AOTC version, he wants the one in the store.

ronhudy
03-17-2005, 11:45 AM
Agree with Slicker and dindae...

I think from my point of view, having been a collector for about 6 years now, and now having turned it over to my son, there's a lot of figures we could have done without. But we can't always look at it from that point of view. You have to realize that there are going to be a fresh batch of 6-10 years olds who might be seeing their first Star Wars movie and getting their first Star Wars toy this spring. How could they NOT have Ani, Obi, C3PO, R2-D2, and all those Jedi in there?

The 'Xir
03-17-2005, 01:08 PM
Yeah and ya gotta remember back when the original movies came out there were releases of each main character on all three movies card backs! There were ANH, ESB, RotJ' Lukes; Hans, Leias, Chewies, R2s, 3POs, Vaders, Stormtroopers, etc... So nothing too different than what they've always done!

JEDIpartner
03-17-2005, 01:26 PM
Does anyone feel that Hasbro is just giving us a bunch of rehash figures?

I couldn't agree with you less. The only reissued figures here seem to be the Battle Droid, Super Battle Droid and Destroyer Droid (and possibly the non-droid attack Artoo). I can line without those but some of the updated versions of the characters just seem to be MUCH better than their previously sculpted releases. I am skipping those three aforementioned figures and getting twos on the sentries, guards, warriors and the like.

You gotta put those characters in there for the first time collectors and those of us who want the new versions (with new clothes and hair-styles) of the characters.

Kidhuman
03-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Now go out and buy those toys!




If I could I would:beard:

JediTricks
03-17-2005, 09:55 PM
I too am disappointed we're immediately getting 2 Obi-Wans, Ani's and Yodas, and 8 revisited Jedi plus another Bail Organa so soon after the last one and another Dooku in the exact same outfit, and other stuff like that. I guess I can understand having all these at some point, but the revisits seem to be dominating the opening salvo. There should be more fresh characters in the beginning of the line, then move onto the rehashes.



C-3PO-you'll just have to see this in person to really appreciate the wonderful job Hasbro has done with this 3PO. Absolutely the best 3PO EVER!Still no thumbs though.

Super Battle Droid-remember how we didn't like that the arm couldn't swivel to firing position. Well while it doesn't swivel, it is in the firing position, which makes it a perfect army builder for not only ROST, but AOTC. Now we can go back and put some firing SBD's in our dioramas or shelf set-ups. I looked at this fig extensively, it's just the SBD from the Saga line with the arm of the SBD from the Saga Deluxe Yoda, all for a buck EXTRA.

BFett88
03-18-2005, 06:04 PM
I guess rehash was a bad term. Revisted is a better term. I guess I just wish there was more of a difference from the AOTC opening line to the ROTS opening line. I just seems to similar, I know ROTS is a sequal to AOTC, but each line had a Battle Droid and a Super Battle Droid right away. They even both had Royal Guards, but the ROTS version is much better. I guess I am just a little disapointed, thats all.

JediTricks
03-18-2005, 11:59 PM
Rehashed can mean either, so I don't think you were too far off, it just depends on how you are thinking about it.

Here's what went through my mind as I looked at the first 32 figures, as shown in the catalog from the Droid Tri-Fighter...

1) Obi-Wan "Slashing Attack" - The first revisit of the Saga action gimmicks. But a main character so not surprising that he'd be here.
2) Anakin Skywalker "Lightsaber Attack" - ditto.
3) Yoda "Firing Cannon" - I don't think he's a main character, but close enough. Still, we got innundated with Yodas over the past few years, and just had 2 in the last 9 months.
4) Super Battle Droid - a straight rehash of the Saga figure except with a redesigned arm that looks an awful lot like the arm from the Saga Deluxe Yoda w/ SBD set.
5) Chewie - we just got the "ultimate" Chewie in the VOTC line, this one isn't it, instead it has a look more in place with older Chewies, beefier and with a sculpted permanent bandolier. Weapon is a straight rehash.
6) Clone Trooper - yeah, I guess, but we've had so many of these guys from Ep 2 where the only difference in the armor is the helmet.
7) R2-D2 "Slashing Attack" - yeah, I guess this makes sense, he's a classic character and almost "main". Still, why another gimmick and limited articulation?
8) Grievous' Bodyguard - hey, something new, cool! FINALLY!
9) Grievous "Four Lightsaber Attack" - this was not unexpected, he's a new guy and different from the preview fig.
10) Mace Windu - ugh, another Mace and another action gimmick. Feels like more of the same to me, except this one's head seems way bigger.
11) Darth Vader - recycling the cloak from the VOTC figure, right? We just saw that VOTC figure, I might add, and this here guy is a gimmickoid. Barely in the film, but I guess it's a "staple".
12) Palpatine "Firing Force Lightning" - gimmicky Emp, but not something we've seen recently.
13) Count Dooku - Hey, it's yet another version of this guy wearing a cape, at least it's cloth. Man, I am tired of this guy from the last film even though he barely had but 4 figures (2 basic, 1 deluxe flipper, 1 vehicle-pilot).
14) Chancellor Palpatine - Somehow, this seems like the same thing as the Saga figure which is nearly perfect. I don't feel inspired.
15) Bail Organa - geez, I barely cared when his first figure came out, can't imagine him doing anything to warrant another, especially not in an action outfit. Just what I need, another figure reading Hamlet.
16) Plo Koon - Is this the 3rd or 4th visit of this figure? Why not a NEW Jedi instead of another visit to this same background guy? I bought the first one, but none of the others and this looks no different.
17) Battle Droid - looks like a visit to "exactly the same as the last one" territory. I'm sick of these guys in the movies, they haven't delivered once so far and I already own a ton of them.
18) C-3PO - well, he looks awesome, way better than the VOTC hunk of crap. No thumbs though, but I'm sorta excited.
19) Padme - this figure looks like crap! I can't get past that, but I guess she's not a rehash.
20) Agen Kolar - whatever you call him, I still don't care for this guy. I bought the POTJ one, now we've had another and here's another right after that, none have impressed me at all. Another of the same Jedi guys we've seen already in the same exact outfit.
21) Shaak Ti - I didn't buy her in Ep 2 and few others did judging by how many there were of her on the shelves. Another of the same Jedi guys we've seen already in the same outfit.
22) Kit Fisto - Looks better articulated than the Saga one, and not half-naked like the CW one, but I'm not into it. Another of the same Jedi guys we've seen already in the same outfit.
23) Royal Guard - kinda cool, I'll probably buy 2 of this. Later I'll learn there's a red one coming first, I'll buy 2 of him even though I already have 2 of the last red guard and 8 of the POTF2 version.
24) Mon Mothma - what is she, knitting? Another non-action action figure. Well, she's new, but I doubt I'll bother.
25) Tarfful - Another Wookiee Warrior which would be good but this one is saddled with a crappy gimmick-gun, that's kinda a buzz-kill.
26) Yoda "Spinning Attack" - Another Yoda already?!? What the hell? This one looks the same as one of the Ep 2 Yodas, weak! Oh boy, and he comes with another crappy action gimmick.
27) Obi-Wan "Jedi Kick" - Another Obi-Wan with a gimmick already?!? Aw man! And he's in the same exact outfit.
28) Anakin "Slashing Attack" - Another Anakin with a gimmick already?!? Oh, but at least this one is wearing a cloak of sorts, maybe he's the evil Ani. Still, another of this guy with a gimmick, that's wiggity whack!
29) Ki-Adi-Mundi - What the hell is this guy still doing in Star Wars? He sucks! I didn't like him in Ep 1, didn't buy him in Ep 2, didn't buy him in any of the multipacks, and he looks the same as every other time. Why not a NEW background Jedi???
30) Saesee Tiin - I got the POTJ figure and wasn't impressed, I passed on the other versions, this one looks similar enough to all them (except the CW one) that I wouldn't bother even if I liked the character. Another spot for a new Jedi that got wasted.
31) Luminara Unduli - Man, what the hell is she doing back so soon? I didn't buy her last figure, I didn't buy the figure that looked just like her, and this while not stupid-posed seems like more of the same. Aren't there any other Jedi in this film besides these same clowns over and over who don't have any personality and don't DO anything of interest?!?
32) Aayla Secura - what in the name of the Force is she doing back again? Her last figure didn't sell that well, her Unleashed figure didn't sell that well, she's not on the Jedi council, she's not a main character, she's not interesting and it seems like we JUST saw her!
XX) Deluxe Anakin, Palpatine, and Obi-Wan vs SBD - 3 deluxe figures yet somehow 4 revisits!

Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Grievous, Palpatine, and even the SBD get multiple figures in this first round of toys.

The catalog has 9 Jedi besides Yoda and the main guys who are Jedi we've seen before recently in similar outfits, yet not ONE new Jedi we haven't seen as a figure yet. That's not right. You can't tell me there aren't other secondary Jedi who could have been made figures first whom we haven't seen.

Many of these figures are saddled with action figures, and then their rehashes are saddled with MORE action features!

So who is totally new here? Grievous, his bodyguard, and to be generous I'll say young Mon Mothma. That's a measily TENTH of the figures offered here! In contrast, 3 times that many figures are revisits to replaceable secondary Jedi characters. So gee, why does this line seem like nothing but rehashes and revisits? Perhaps because it is.

EDIT: whoops, forgot Tarfful, he's new. Still, 4 new characters, not exciting.

mephisto designs
03-19-2005, 03:30 AM
a lot of this thread sounds like people are mad about the characters in the films being in the films. These are the same characters Lucas re-used because, like most writers, he probably hoped people would...oh I don' know...try to get to know them? Now, for those not into the comics/cartoon/or books, then yeah, I can see not liking the characters who look the same (in the case of jedi, I say duh, they're jedi, they all dress more or less the same). I don't know what would make these naysayers happy though. You want them to invent crappy side characters like a lot of other licenses do, just to get more diversity (like any other line rivals star wars for diversity anyway)? Because every time I've seen that happen in other lines, the collectors complain because they feel as though the company's just expect collectors to buy the new characters because they're under the {enter liscence name} label. But in Star Wars, they don't add useless characters, they just make the ones in the films. What's on screen is what they have to work with. Hasbro (and the others) make everyone they can for both money and the collectors that want to build scenes or those one of every fig collectors. And some of us want the so called "lame" characters like Mon Mothma and Bail because of their importance to the story. Sure they don't have a lot of screen time, but they are none the less important for the parts the play in the saga's story. The market for these characters must exist because some people want them, enough to warrant paying a scuplter and taking up factory time to produce them. Its not like the Batman lines over the years, we don't have roller blade Anakin (although there will be a lava Anakin, but at least he's SEEN lava). They make figures from all the scenes. Here's a hot tip though, if you don't want them, if you feel you already have all these characters, if there are too many lame characters, then guess what? Hasbro just saved you hundreds of dollars. So don't hate on them, thank them! But for those of us who want the guardian of Leia, the mother of the rebellion, and plenty of versions of characters for diorama building, we'll be shellin' out the dough with grins on our faces! :D

mabudonicus
03-19-2005, 09:19 AM
29) Ki-Adi-Mundi - What the hell is this guy still doing in Star Wars? He sucks! Holy cow, JT, that one dang near killed me... I totally agree with you, I have hated the design and multiple figures of that goof-off from day one, he looks like he got rejected for the "Dark Crystal" since he wasn't a puppet and then just bided (bade?? Bid??) his time watching re-runs of Monty Pythons Flying Circus and All Creatures Great and Small until he found out that GL was loking for stupid-looking characters to fill up the bluescreens with...


You want them to invent crappy side characters like a lot of other licenses do, just to get more diversity???
well, it sorta seems like maybe that's what-

But in Star Wars, they don't add useless characters, they just make the ones in the films.

Ah HAAA!!! Okay, that makes sense, then... I guess one has to keep in mind the direct topic of this thread.... From a few things JT said I guess the "line" got blurred...

I think his point was that, especially for the "kickoff" wave, there are way too many re-do's of characters that collectors, for the most part, have seen done well enough, often enough...
Whether you think Ki-Adi is a stupid "character" (since, being an EU/FU abstainer, he is just a stupid looking conehead to me) or not, he IS pretty static and dull... I expect he'll be standing there just like his TPM figure was, and the AOTC fig after that, for his part in this one (and maybe he will actually do something, in the form of looking shocked, but I'd be amazed if it goes any further)
I recall seeing him keeping lots of pegs nice and warm, and many collectors MUST have this fig (unless they felt as some of us do and boycotted the dumb thing), and I honestly don't see young kids fixating on the character enough to be buying him up... it seems more like the assortment was one of them "punishing" ones that H-bro seems to like to launch film lines with... make equal numbers of obvious sellers and duds, so any store that wants to participate will take a big hit marking down 50% of the figures (the obvious DUDS that many "picky collectors" won't buy for one reason or another,and that no kid in his/her right mind would think twice about) if they're LUCKY (re-stock and the ratio gets worse) and then let the retailers absorb the loss.... which, in my area, means that we DON'T GET ANYTHING EVER past the initial release.....

Whew... but I think that's what's bugging at least a few folks... tho I could be wrong....
:beard:

Carry on!!

mephisto designs
03-19-2005, 10:34 AM
I totally agree with you, it is the kick off wave, and maybe all those cooler clone variations (oh how I want those) should have been pushed up the list. But keep in mind, this movie is the END of the Jedi, Hasbro probably considers them pretty important. A few, as we saw in the trailer, go to arrest Palpatine. They pretty much are the focus of the film, even the David the Gnome looking Ki-adi-mundi ;) ! But, I just think we need to be realistic about the fact that the only characters in ROTS THE FILM we haven't seen are Grievous and his guards, and I was kinda shocked to see Lucas introduce a "major" villian in ROTS, since, as we all know, there are lots of galaxy shattering events to cover. But honestly, the only characters that are new are Grievous, his guards, Tion Medon, and a couple of new troops (nemodian, Mustafar sentry) that we haven't seen at all. Hasbro didn't really have a choice. But people are really THAT steamed about new versions of people? Granted, a few of the Jedi more or less do look EXACTLY like they did before. Kit being the exception, he looks worse, sculptwise, than the last time around. But I don't know, I'm pretty happy about all the new clones, despite us actually having bought clones last time, these are pretty dang cool lookin'! And I'm really happy about the new likenesses of Anakin and Kenobi, we've seen these CHARACTERS before, but these are cool since they now sport the "closer to OT" look I've been waiting for. In defense of a lot of these characters though, with the exception of Kit, the new sculpts are far superior to the last films' figures. The new Dooku's likeness is MUCH better than in his AOTC versions. I for one view it much in the same light as the rash of "new" OT figures last year which were, essentially, more of the same. More versions of Luke's we have, more Han's we have...but I was happy to have them because they're superior sculpts. Maybe it doesn't bug me as much being an Opener, because at the end of the day, I just want the best sculpts possible for every one, and if that means burnin' some dough on new sculpts of "Rehashed" characters, then I'm down for it. :D

JediTricks
03-20-2005, 08:19 PM
a lot of this thread sounds like people are mad about the characters in the films being in the films.That's not what I was getting at at all, it's that the same characters, many of which are minor players, are getting figures first before the bulk of the new characters' figures.


These are the same characters Lucas re-used because, like most writers, he probably hoped people would...oh I don' know...try to get to know them? Ah hah hah! Oh, my sides hurt. That's cute, "get to know them", that's a laugh riot. ;) I'm sure Lucas really gives a crap about us getting to know those 8 background Jedi in this catalog that aren't Yoda & Mace, exactly 1 of which has actually had any dialogue in a film whatsoever (Kone-heady-Mundy), and most of which haven't had more than 20 seconds of "doing something" screentime. Hell, poor Eeth Koth got replaced with a character who looks EXACTLY like him but isn't. Lucas is a minimalist, many of his characters we NEVER get to know - but I suspect this is all Hasbro's fault anyway for choosing this first wave of primarily-revisited figures.


Now, for those not into the comics/cartoon/or books, then yeah, I can see not liking the characters who look the same (in the case of jedi, I say duh, they're jedi, they all dress more or less the same). I don't know what would make these naysayers happy though. You want them to invent crappy side characters like a lot of other licenses do, just to get more diversity (like any other line rivals star wars for diversity anyway)? Because every time I've seen that happen in other lines, the collectors complain because they feel as though the company's just expect collectors to buy the new characters because they're under the {enter liscence name} label. But in Star Wars, they don't add useless characters, they just make the ones in the films. What's on screen is what they have to work with. Then why are the final 24 figures almost ALL new characters? Why couldn't these later wave newbies come first and the bulk of the revisits come later? Look at the list, 14 of them are what I'd consider "new", that's over HALF:

33. Clone Commander
34. Clone Pilot
35. Palpatine
36. Grievous
37. Neimoidian Warrior
39. Wookiee Warrior
40. Destroyer Droid
41. Tri Droid
42. AT-TE Gunner
43. Polis Massan
44. Mas Amedda
45. Tarkin
46. Ask Aak
47. Mon Calamari
48. R2-D2
49. Commander Baccarra
50. Anakin on Mustafar
51. Capt Antilles
52. Tado
53. Utapauan Warrior
54. Turbo Tank Driver
55. Mustafar Sentry
56. Obi-Wan "Red Leader pilot"


But honestly, the only characters that are new are Grievous, his guards, Tion Medon, and a couple of new troops (nemodian, Mustafar sentry) that we haven't seen at all. Hasbro didn't really have a choice. I don't know who Tado is, Commander Baccarra, this might be a new Capt Antilles and Mon Cal, Polis Massan, haven't seen Ask Aak as a fig before, there's the Tri Droid, and then like you said we have Neimoidian, Utapauan, Mustafar, Wookiee, and Clone troops in that list all of which are fresh and new. And Mas Amedda and Tarkin are not figures we've seen in a while either.


Here's a hot tip though, if you don't want them, if you feel you already have all these characters, if there are too many lame characters, then guess what? Hasbro just saved you hundreds of dollars. So don't hate on them, thank them!Wow, I never saw it that way. THANKS HASBRO FOR MAKING ALMOST AN ENTIRE OPENING SALVO OF STAR WARS FIGURES THAT I AM NOT INTERESTED IN! Gee, wow, I feel so much better, like collecting ROTS Star Wars figures won't suck after all since there's almost nothing interesting there for me.


But for those of us who want the guardian of Leia, the mother of the rebellion, and plenty of versions of characters for diorama building, we'll be shellin' out the dough with grins on our faces! Diorama builders like Tycho won't be too likely bother with those 8 Jedi I keep focusing on since he already has them, as well as having Royal and Senate Guards, action-Yodas, Mace Windus, Vaders, Evil Emperors, Chewies, Dookus, 3POs, Battle Droids, and Super Battle Droids (unless he missed out on the super-clearance prices on the Saga Deluxe Yoda w/ SBD that has it in firing position). So let's see, that leaves about 9 figures out of 32 that aren't diorama-death.



Holy cow, JT, that one dang near killed me... I totally agree with you, I have hated the design and multiple figures of that goof-off from day one, he looks like he got rejected for the "Dark Crystal" since he wasn't a puppet and then just bided (bade?? Bid??) his time watching re-runs of Monty Pythons Flying Circus and All Creatures Great and Small until he found out that GL was loking for stupid-looking characters to fill up the bluescreens with... I always thought he was a wrinkly old Conehead, like Beldar's grampa or something, but I see yours too. He looks dorky and sounds like a jerk in Ep 1. Ki-Adi just seems to rub folks the wrong way, I don't know too many people that like him at all (off the top of my head, I can't think of any, but that's just off the top of my head... good thing it's not off the top of Ki-Adi's head though ;)).


I think his point was that, especially for the "kickoff" wave, there are way too many re-do's of characters that collectors, for the most part, have seen done well enough, often enough... That was my main point, my second point was I think too many of these figures in the "kickoff" wave also seem really boring.



But keep in mind, this movie is the END of the Jedi, Hasbro probably considers them pretty important. Ok, but why these same 8 Jedi? I understand Yoda & Mace, those aren't included, but are these going to be "it" for the film? Why not other Jedi that we haven't seen as figures yet, or how about just putting some in later waves and putting in more of the "interesting, never before done as figs" characters from the 33-56 series mentioned above in earlier? Mabs is right, many of those 8 Jedi figures have been pegwarmers in their day, some characters were even poor sellers in multiple lines. I think all this adds to a sense of "revisited figures" which this thread is talking about, not to mention they all seem kinda dull which only enhances the main feeling of a malaise.

It almost seems as if Hasbro chose them because they already had head sculpts and limbs and outfits ready to go from their last few outings. I'm not saying that's the case, but if it feels like it then it's already lost some of its juice I think.


But I don't know, I'm pretty happy about all the new clones, despite us actually having bought clones last time, these are pretty dang cool lookin'! Too bad the first 32 only have 1 clone, and he's an action-gimmick figure. The 3 other, more interesting variations come later, in the last 24.

Darth Alex
03-20-2005, 09:51 PM
Wow this is a hot topic!
Ya know, some of my friends aren't buying all the figures due to the fact that they already have em. And I do make the case that some of these are my favorite versions-Mace is great, really like it the best outta all the ones they've made so far.
I hope that after the dust settles and the 56 are out we get new and wanted figures in 2006.
Ya know, you really it really wouldn't be a SW toy line without at least SOME of the main characters getting factored in again and again. However, the articulation and detail this time around really has me buying em.
Take Dooku-THIS is the figure to have and I really like the Tyranus Saga figure.
I still want a jet pack/Jango style Clone from the Battlefront game-hopefully there will be some in ROTS, different than the one pictured today on this site....

Darth Alex
03-20-2005, 09:56 PM
Too bad the first 32 only have 1 clone, and he's an action-gimmick figure. The 3 other, more interesting variations come later, in the last 24.

For what it's worth, I grabbed one of these clones during the grab from Sith Lord 0498, and I was real sceptical before I opened it. I thought, here's yet another fine SA Clone figure and it's gonna have a stupid action feature.

WELL! The big suprise here is the action feature works, doesn't mess upthe poseability, and I actually can kneel this figure on one leg unlike the SA Clone.

So, JediTricks, I'm with you on the action feature tip, I agree that it's WAY overused, but in this case it actually worked out.

For the records, I like my SW figures without all the ACTION! FEATURES! But I guess someone at Hasbro HAS to super-size the burger, no matter what the appetite, eh?:eek:

Turbowars
03-20-2005, 10:04 PM
For the most part we are getting the best sculpts of some of these characters, so I don't consider any of them rehashes. It's nothing like the OTC line. It looks like Hasbro really put some time and effort into these figures and all we do is complain. At least it keeps Hasbro on their toe.

Bossk77
03-21-2005, 02:01 AM
Rehashes are part of life of the Toy empire of Hasbro.... Check out the Transformers for example... need i say more?

Ohhhh yellow paint instead of Blue paint.. BRILLIANT!!!!!

mephisto designs
03-21-2005, 10:30 AM
For the most part we are getting the best sculpts of some of these characters, so I don't consider any of them rehashes. It's nothing like the OTC line. It looks like Hasbro really put some time and effort into these figures and all we do is complain. At least it keeps Hasbro on their toe.

EXACTLY!!!

mephisto designs
03-21-2005, 10:39 AM
Jedi tricks, you proved my point better than I did, too bad it contradicts your own first arguement. You yourself have now pointed out how many new figures there are and are now mainly focusing on 8 jedi that you don't want to re-buy. So don't! Apparently you are happy about the other new versions of old characters like yoda and mace, you just don't want those 8 jedi. And I agree, there are a lot of new characters after the first 24. That's why its a good thing the first FORTY come out April 2nd. See, your earlier arguement made it sound like you didn't like hardly any of the figs, now I see you're just sick of the non-dialogue having jedi popping up again, dispite the quality of newer sculpts. So now there are only 8 figs you don't have to buy. There are 32 more you CAN get on april 2nd. I personally think, after the film comes out, people are really gonna want those council members since they will be a big part of some very cool scenes that people are gonna want to set up on their shelves. Anyway, I'm glad to see you've now narrowed your arguement down to focusing on those 8 figs, which I do agree are, essentially, re-hashes. I bought them anyway, and am glad I did since I'm already setting up the Palpatine arrest scene and plan on setting up some 'clone murdering jedi' scenes.

Ric Olie
03-21-2005, 12:57 PM
The new versions of Plo Koon, Kit Fiston, Shaak Ti, and previous figures are great and are clearly the superior version but since I already have those characters I'll be skipping them for know to focus on brand new characters from RotS. Later on I'll go back and get those figures when they're marked down or if they the only figures a store has.

That's how I've always collected figures and I've saved a lot of money that way.

jedi master sal
03-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Rehashed can mean either, so I don't think you were too far off, it just depends on how you are thinking about it.

Here's what went through my mind as I looked at the first 32 figures, as shown in the catalog from the Droid Tri-Fighter...


JT, allow me to play devil's advocate here for a moment.
First recall the vintage figures, where every movie we got the exact same Stormtrooper, Chewie, C-3PO etc etc....
Now consider the particular Jedi you are talking about...

SPOILER ALERT!!!
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Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto are part of teh arresting group along with Mace that go after Palpatine. It's a VERY important scene, so they do warrant figures. This is where Palps reveals himself! Beyond that, have you purchased these yet? I'd venture not since you seem adamant against them. I have and I mus say that the added articulation alone makes them worth getting. Now to boot in the case of Agen Kolar, we finally get a better representation of him instead of teh exact rehash of Eeth Koth, that Hasbro was trying to push off as Agen. Saesee isn't much different but again teh articulation is much improved. (Again something we never complained about with the vintage stuff) Now I'll agree that Kit Fisto looks worse, but overall the figure is better.

As to Ki-Adi-Mundi, whoah, don't hold back the anger there man...J/K
Seriously though consider again the vintage era. At least with this newest version we get a much improved articulated figure.

SPOILER ALERT
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Now consider him (Ki-Adi), and Aayla. Both have specific scenes that show their resective deaths at the hands (well really blasters) of the Clonetroopers. You don't think people would want to recreate that scene? Sure they could use the AOTC ones, but then they wouldn't have that fig for their AOTC scenes. Again added articulation makes these figs worth buying..
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Now as to Luminara, I don't know ANY collector that was satisfied with her stagnant "web shooting" battle pose. Sure it looked cool, but you couldn't do anything else with her. The ROTS version is SO much better than the AOTC version that I'm going to replace the AOTC one with the ROTS one and buy a few extras for other dioramas for both AOTC and ROTS dioramas.

Obi-wan, Anikin, Mace and Yoda all make sense to redo. Ani/Obi are clearly older so the change in look warrants a new fig. Yoda has some pretty vital scenes between the Wookiees and Palpatine that he commands that you buy him.

SPOILER ALERT
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Mace DIES a valiant death at the hands of Palpatine (well rumored really Anakin, but still) Anyway, he being the highest on the Jedi Council along with Yoda again commands a new fig. The new look face sculpt could have been better, but at least it's not Smiling Sam Jackson and looks more like "Action" Sam Jackson.




Are you kidding about teh Clone and Battle Droid? Again, take into account that we never got a different Stormtrooper in the vintage era. The ROTS Clone HAD to be made. Not only for Mad army builders liek me and Tycho, but everyone else who wants the "upgraded" versions. Oh and it's not just the helmets that are different. Look at the knee pads and the back armor. Sure they are sublte changes, but they are changes nonetheless. I'm buying as many as I can find! As to the Battler Droid, hey you need seomthign for the clones to kick the crap out of. Besides I don't have enough BDs for my liking.

Sarcasm alert...Why don't you buy all the clones and battle droids you see, for me, and I'll buy them off you...Seriously, these (especially the clone) are going to be HOT figures and I suspect Very HTF.

Agreed that the Chewie is subpar than the VOTC Chewie, but he has the prequel Wookiee look now, rather than the OT look. Not a good enough excuse for some and I'm okay with that.

You'll be quite satisfied with Grievous and his bodyguards! I am.

The Sith lords...Vader is a staple in the Saga. Not having a fig of him (BTW, have you even looked at the figure cards-do you see who's on every one of them at the top??? Sarcastic reply here), would be ludicrious. The plain Palpy works and teh Emperor Palpy is cool. He has a neat Neck articulation that enables him to look down (Upon a certain diminunative Jedi Master-we all know who-we've seen the trailer by now). Dooku's face sculpt is better, but besides that whats it for me is not just his arctiulation, but the cloth cape!

Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were two of the founders of the Rebellion. For the story's sake they are needed. For Dioramas they are a must!

Plo Koon and Shaak Ti get nice articulation upgrades. Much better than any of their respective predessors. Could Hasbro have made new or different Jedi? I suppose but again those two particular Jedi are ranking members within the Jedi order. Makes sense to make them again. And they've made them better. I know that I just saved some scratch not buying teh Jedi Council sets, but waiting for these versions. I'll wait for those pathetic sets to go on sale. If only for the middle piece and use the figs as custom fodder.

The ROTS C-3PO is far and away the BEST 3PO to date, IMO. Thumbs or no (which I didn't notice and didn't look for), he's spot on accurate. Nice gold finish.So much improved over other 3PO's that I see alot of people getting extras of him to replace in their other scene set-ups, rom other movies.

Somewhat agreeable about Padme. Hasbro, IMHO, usually doesn't do as well with female figures, but I think they did a rather good job with Padme. great articulation with the exception of her left arm which is in a bent pose. (Strange that Shaak-Ti has the same exact thing going on with her ariculation-Anyway).

Tarrful, he makes sense to have and is another great Wookiee variation to add to anyone's collection.

The Royal Guard is AMAZING! You will have clearly missed the mark if you don't get this one. Not only does he have VERY COOL armor underneath but a CLOTH robe. Very much akin to the vintage era! IMHO, this is teh best royal Guard to date!

Now as to why Hasbrois releasing these first, it makes sense. Familiarity will breed interest as even the casual fan will know who most of these characters are. Hasbro also knows that the vat majority of we collectors will flock in droves to purchase them, even if they are "rehashes". Waiting to come out with new charactrers will keep us collectors interested, but also will get new/casual fans/collectors to continue buying the line. Just imagine if they DID come out with the last 16 or so. We'd all flock to get them, casual fan and collector alike. We the collecting community would complain because the really desired figures like many of the clones would be much harder to find, because of initial consumer interest in all demographics. Also, most the first 40 or so WOULD end up pegwarming badly not only would the casual fans interest wane, but we collectors wouldn't want the rehashes this late. Most likely thinking that Hasbro wouldn't have any more new figures down the pike and we'd have to settle for the rehashes for the next year or so. By doing it they way they are doing it, again they know we will pick up the stuff, but many new people will as well. They are also getting the familiar characters out of the way for us collectors. They also know there will be a drop off of the casual fan/collector. Some of the later figs, while highly desired by us collectors, are just menial background characters to the average fan. Thereby being passed on.

No, I think Hasbro is doing the right thing here.

In summary, Hasbro has gone out of it's way to add articulation, cloth "soft goods" material and even some cool stands. These are not Vintage/POTF2/POTJ/SAGA figs. These are something entirely different. They are the best sculpts of the figures we could have ever hoped for. They've saved what the collecting community feels (or will feel)is the best for last. Knowing that we will continue to purchase these long after initial interest has run it's course. The more desired later figs will go into the hands of us collectors and not the "Johnny come lately" fans/collectors who will stop buying after 6 monhts or so.

Would I rather see some new Jedi, more than likely, but these rehashes as they are so eloquently being called are far and above better figures than we've seen for years.

Oh and let me add that, I've picked up one each of the first 26 figs (except #9 Grievous-couldn't find him). I'll still get another one of each, but will wait until they clearance, so I can have one to open.

Don't worry, we'll get alot more new figs to come (and I'm sure in particular more Jedi). This is just the first push...

-Sal

dindae
03-21-2005, 03:16 PM
Sure Hasbro did give us a lot of figures we had before in the past. Now since we haven't seen the movie and Hasbro knows this they probably wanted to give us characters we actually have seen instead of character that we haven't. Since I am trying to be free as possible from spoilers I skipped Sal's post so I don't know if the remade jedi have a stronger role. Plus if they don't maybe Hasbro wanted to make them now while we are foaming at the mouth for EIII figures. Now I know that I want every figure and even though I have the older version of these figure the new ones will go in my EIII dioramas. As far as the Battle Droid, Destroyer Droid, and Super Battle Droid these are army builders just like Stormtroopers and Clonetroopers. I expect these to be released in a frequent manner especially when a new movie comes out. I can't count the times I have heard someone say that they should release army builders more often. I understand that not all of us enjoy the first two movies that much so I don't expect the same level of excitement about these figures. But look at Ponda Baba all he did is get cut down in a bar and it seems Hasbro can't think about a cantina set without revisting this character with only the slightest improvement from the orignal POTF2 figure. My point is simply that there is no reason these figures should not be released now. Hopefully there will be enough figures left over from the 32-40 release on the 2nd to satisfy your collection needs.

Kyle Katarn
03-21-2005, 04:10 PM
I think that by getting the new Episode 3 figures, we are getting "fresh" figures, never seen before...and of course we are getting some rehash figures, but they are better and we get them 'cause those characters are important in the movie as jedi master sal said...so, let's start buying :D .

Bossk77
03-21-2005, 07:43 PM
Rehash or no rehash, you know your going to buy them anyway.

BFett88
03-21-2005, 08:41 PM
I know I will buy them all. But it is still annoying that we are not getting newer stuff right away. I guess I would not be as annoyed if the figure release was reversed and the Jedi were at the end. With a new movie I like to have new figures out of that new movie. It is cool to get stuff that has been out before but redone, but I think it is better to always get something that has never been made. I know one thing on April 2nd I will be going after figures that have never been made before, then after that slowly I will get ones that have been made before.

I must say I have the E3 Vader and I compared him to the VOTC Vader and in my opinion the VOTC Vader is better. But they are almost the exact same thing.

The destroyer droid is a complete rehash.

I must say both Anikans are cool and worth getting.

The Chewie is my second favorite Chewie. I still think the VOTC one is much better.

I saw the new Dooku and he is just a boring figure same with the Mace.

There are some really cool new figures but it seems in this initial release the lame ones out number the cool ones. It was completely different in the E1 and E2 release. I guess I am just a little disappointed.

JediTricks
03-22-2005, 01:39 AM
Jedi tricks, you proved my point better than I did, too bad it contradicts your own first arguement. You yourself have now pointed out how many new figures there are and are now mainly focusing on 8 jedi that you don't want to re-buy. Um, you are missing MY point, my argument was that there are too many rehashed/revisited figures in the OPENING WAVES of the line, that shown in the ROTS catalog - the new figures I was pointing out are in LATER WAVES. The first 32 in the catalog plus the next 8 still aren't that many new characters, it's only after that where we start to see new guys.


now I see you're just sick of the non-dialogue having jedi popping up again, dispite the quality of newer sculpts.Nope, you're wrong, that's not the only thing I'm saying. The 8 Jedi are just indicitive of the opening salvo's revisits and general boredom.



JT, allow me to play devil's advocate here for a moment.
First recall the vintage figures, where every movie we got the exact same Stormtrooper, Chewie, C-3PO etc etc....
Now consider the particular Jedi you are talking about...

SPOILER ALERT!!! Sorry JMS, but I'm spoiler-free so I have to avoid that. LMK if you decide to unspoiler your argument.


Bottom line, my opinion is still the same on this, the opening salvo of ROTS figures seems like too many rehashes/revisits and if that weren't boring enough, too many of the other figures in this opening wave also seem fairly boring to me.

mephisto designs
03-22-2005, 02:47 AM
Rehash or no rehash, you know your going to buy them anyway.

Say word son!

mephisto designs
03-22-2005, 02:58 AM
Um, you are missing MY point, my argument was that there are too many rehashed/revisited figures in the OPENING WAVES of the line, that shown in the ROTS catalog - the new figures I was pointing out are in LATER WAVES. The first 32 in the catalog plus the next 8 still aren't that many new characters, it's only after that where we start to see new guys.

Nope, you're wrong, that's not the only thing I'm saying. The 8 Jedi are just indicitive of the opening salvo's revisits and general boredom.


Sorry JMS, but I'm spoiler-free so I have to avoid that. LMK if you decide to unspoiler your argument.


Bottom line, my opinion is still the same on this, the opening salvo of ROTS figures seems like too many rehashes/revisits and if that weren't boring enough, too many of the other figures in this opening wave also seem fairly boring to me.

Whether we get your point (if you even have one anymore) you're definetly in the minority apparently, I'm glad as all hell to see everybody jump on supporting these great new sculpts! Here's the spoiler free version of the arguement from JMS: All the Jedi you're calling rehashed, are in VERY KEY scenes involving them directly, scenes that people will want to set up immediately upon learning of the contents of these scenes (as I am on my shelf now, thanks for bein' dumb KMART!). So unless you want to ruin your AOTC scenes by removing these Jedi, you'll need the new ones. In other words, everyone who sees the film will want these figures as they are in SEVERAL key scenes. Several fight scenes of grand Star Wars tradition involve these Jedi. Bottom line, they matter, we (most of us anyway) want them for these bad @$$ scenes! Plus, as I pointed out earlier, and you mocked it, many of us have gotten to know these characters through the books, cartoons, and comics. You're favorite, Ki, had a whole story arc in the comics devoted to him called "Outlander". So a lot of us also care about these characters enough to buy them. Its too bad you've missed out on all of this, then you'd be a bit happier like the rest of us. But, to each their own. :crazed:

jedi master sal
03-22-2005, 12:32 PM
Um, you are missing MY point, my argument was that there are too many rehashed/revisited figures in the OPENING WAVES of the line, that shown in the ROTS catalog - the new figures I was pointing out are in LATER WAVES. The first 32 in the catalog plus the next 8 still aren't that many new characters, it's only after that where we start to see new guys.

Nope, you're wrong, that's not the only thing I'm saying. The 8 Jedi are just indicitive of the opening salvo's revisits and general boredom.


Sorry JMS, but I'm spoiler-free so I have to avoid that. LMK if you decide to unspoiler your argument.


Bottom line, my opinion is still the same on this, the opening salvo of ROTS figures seems like too many rehashes/revisits and if that weren't boring enough, too many of the other figures in this opening wave also seem fairly boring to me.

I won't put it so hard as mephisto designs did, but (and trying to be spoiler free here), those characters as mephisto designs mentioned and I as well, are in very key scenes. They matter to the overall developement of the story.

Beyond this to paraphrase myself from my previous post, familiarity breeds a common interest. Have secondary or Tertiary characters that the average fan doesn't know at all will make them hesitant to purchase them. Repeating characters however, let's the average (and I'm NOT talking about we collectors here but the casual fan and/or kids) person know that "Hey, I know those dudes/Jedi/characters...I think I'll get them." Hasbro has been reissuing figures since the days of the vintage era. It's know different this time, BUT with one MAJOR exception...these figs are WAY better than ANY of their previous incarnations. I know because I already have the first 25 or 26 figs. (See attachment for proof)

Hasbro knows that there will be a fairly quick drop-off of sales and are saving the secondary and tertiary characters for those who are more diligent about collecting. Again the casual fan might get some, but Hasbro knows it can bank on we collectors to get them all. And not just the background characters but the mainline or core ones as well.

About the army builders...are you joking? Army building has so increased in the last few years, that NOT having a clone trooper, battle droid, and super battle droid in the first wave would be such a travesty. EVERYONE will get at least one of these, including the casual fan/kid. Why, because they are familiar characters and you've got to have some troops to fight each other.

All I'll say in closing is, man you will be missing out by not getting these at all. Heck, I don't care either way, or if you wait for them to clearance, but IMHO, if you're looking for the best variation of those Jedi you mentioned, then it's borderline Paramont that you get them.

[edit] Oh and if you think those Jedi are boring, all I can say is, you've got another thing coming...Watch the movie (or heck even the trialer and you'll see)[end edit]

-Sal

mephisto designs
03-22-2005, 03:56 PM
I won't put it so hard as mephisto designs did,

[edit] Oh and if you think those Jedi are boring, all I can say is, you've got another thing coming...Watch the movie (or heck even the trialer and you'll see)[end edit]

-Sal

Oh, I think you did pretty well in getting close to my level of hardness! :D

JediTricks
03-23-2005, 06:08 AM
So unless you want to ruin your AOTC scenes by removing these Jedi, you'll need the new ones.Oh no, I'll have to take them out of their "doing nothing" and "background character" scenes from the first 2 prequels, whatever will I do? Not that it matters to me, I don't think squat of these guys and stopped buying the ones I didn't like once the Saga line rolled around.


Plus, as I pointed out earlier, and you mocked it, many of us have gotten to know these characters through the books, cartoons, and comics. You're favorite, Ki, had a whole story arc in the comics devoted to him called "Outlander". So a lot of us also care about these characters enough to buy them. Its too bad you've missed out on all of this, then you'd be a bit happier like the rest of us. Don't be so melodramatic, I didn't MOCK the love of the EU backstories on these characters, I totally ignored that aspect and concentrated my comments on the FILMS ONLY, that which Lucas himself wrote unlike the EU. And if you care for these characters, that's fine, but you've already had at least 1 opportunity to buy 'em while TONS of deserving characters from the EU get passed up all the time, and I'm sure there are characters from the film that are getting passed up in this opening salvo that are more deserving of a first figure as well.



those characters as mephisto designs mentioned and I as well, are in very key scenes. They matter to the overall developement of the story. That's what Lucasfilm said about these guys last time, turns out they were just in the background of key scenes. That didn't stop thousands of folks from buying those Jedi Council packs though, I guess.


Beyond this to paraphrase myself from my previous post, familiarity breeds a common interest.And here I thought it only bred contempt. ;)


Have secondary or Tertiary characters that the average fan doesn't know at all will make them hesitant to purchase them. Repeating characters however, let's the average (and I'm NOT talking about we collectors here but the casual fan and/or kids) person know that "Hey, I know those dudes/Jedi/characters...I think I'll get them."Perhaps, but beyond Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, and Mace, I don't think these other repeating guys in the opening salvo are "repeating characters" so much as "repeating background set decor that most casual fans/kids overlooked when they were onscreen".


Hasbro has been reissuing figures since the days of the vintage era. The figures that got reissued by Kenner and later Hasbro weren't Dengars and K-3POs and Imperial Dignitaries, they were Vaders and Stormtroopers and Landos and such, with the occasional famous alien thrown back into the mix. Even today, we no longer get Mauls and Qui-Gons reissued, we get C-3POs and Lukes.


Hasbro knows that there will be a fairly quick drop-off of sales and are saving the secondary and tertiary characters for those who are more diligent about collecting. Again the casual fan might get some, but Hasbro knows it can bank on we collectors to get them all. And not just the background characters but the mainline or core ones as well. I feel that if the opening waves were more exciting this time around, they would have a lot more new collectors going the distance rather than those who will drop out quickly, but I think this opening salvo (sorry, i can't think of a better term for this really, I am sick of repeating it as much as you're probably sick of seeing me do so) is going to be more of the "quick drop-off" you described.


but IMHO, if you're looking for the best variation of those Jedi you mentioned, then it's borderline Paramont that you get them. Here's the thing, I really don't care about Ki-adi-Mundi no matter how improved he is, he's still a boring jerkwad from what I've seen. I don't care 1 iota about Aayla Secura, she seems like a marketing ploy to sucker EU fans into buying movie toys. Luminara Unduli is meaningless to me, I don't feel any interest in her or any of these other guys, they're just not doing it for me because they're empty shells - but I'm like that with Jabba's Palace guys too so make of that what you will.

dindae
03-23-2005, 09:14 AM
I'm not sure why you guys are even trying to convince him. He has stated several times that he finds the prequels lacking in several areas. I'm suprised he is still buying prequel figures at all. Trying to convince him that he should care about characters he doesn't isn't going to work. Even when we were making the Top 50 figures not made list he stuck with the core characters. So that's a double whammy for most of these figures. Now maybe if the movie is better than the previous two and these character stand out on screen he will go back and pick up these characters, but that remains to be seen. Another thing to keep in mind is Hasbro hasn't seen the movie. I'm sure they ask Lucasfilm which character were going to be main characters and they gave them suggestions.

mephisto designs
03-23-2005, 11:17 AM
Yeah, I agree. I'll stop that's for sure. Some people just like being miserable and look for reasons to complain. Its just sad really. :cry:

mabudonicus
03-23-2005, 11:29 AM
Sadder still, If any of the "scenery jedi" does ANYTHING other than just stand there or maybe assume a combat stance, I'll eat my Ephant Mon

Oh, and I think you guys got JT mixed up sith Stilla :D he's the one who hates star wars ;)

And if thinking Ki Adi Mundi is a silly looking piece of scenery is SAD then colour this cowboy BLEU
I think reading a book based on the "character" or owning multiple "different" figues of the same standing-there-looking-stupid character is pretty durn sad myself, but it's all in the eye of the beholder and it really isn't my place to call the interests/opinions of others "sad", now, is it???
(PS okay I'll stop)

mephisto designs
03-23-2005, 12:08 PM
Its not sad that he doesn't like it, its sad that he feels the need to be so nasty about the whole thing. Jedi Master Sal and I were just trying to explain the marketing thought process of Hasbro by giving him the rationalization they no doubt came to and why some fans have reason to agree (like Sal and I and the others that posted similar responses). He responds by ripping on characters, talking down to us, and just being rude basically. That's what's sad, that he doesn't even seem to get that this is why Hasbro did it, and more new figures are coming, so just be patient and everyone will be happy.

Because that's the reality of it, there are TONS of awesome looking figures in the ROTS line. Sure I'd like that Mustafar Anakin and Commander Bacarra to be in the opening wave, but they aren't. So I'm content to wait until they're releashed instead of jumping on Hasbro for not doing it sooner simply because I want them to. I think we all would like the figures we want right off the bat. But that's not how the toy industry works (and for my wallets sake, I thank them). The reality is, they're going to take the major scenes of the movie first, break down the characters in those scenes they think kids and collectors combined have a good chance of purchasing, and they make those first. We know over the next two years we'll be able to get every minor background clone/alien/jedi/bounty hunter/etc. Its just a matter of patience. I don't fault Jedi Tricks for not wanting more Jedi that we've seen before. Its his tastes, we all have our own preferences when it comes to characters. I just think to rant for so long about something that should be common knowledge, and if not accepted, than at least tollerated by now is a waist of time. Bottom line, we'll have more figures than we need over the next two years, we'll all find things that fit our tastes, if you don't like one wave, you may love the next. Its just the reality of the toy industry.

mabudonicus
03-24-2005, 06:24 AM
Yeah, but if I'm not mistaken, JT has spoken to more Hasbro reps than most folks around here, and we all have seen how Hasbro makes big mistakes with every major launch..
Not cataclysmic ones or anything, but just plain DUMB mistakes
You keep mentioning how these characters of contention have "major" roles in the upcoming film that will change the minds of everyone who thinks Hasbro is dropping the ball on the opening, and I said that I am almost positive that, while they will be involved in key scenes, they will still be only scenery, likely still with NO speaking parts (which usually helps one in "getting to know" a character)
I guess for outright hardcore collectors who think that every "character" is awesome (having read the graphic novel, the collection of "tales" and pages upon pages of fan fiction, for every "character" out there) the first lineup is excellent, but there just isn't enough "Grab" factor in the line to be on much interest to the casual fan... as was suggested, these characters are fine but they would have been better released as a steady trickle later on, rather than one big solid block of dullards and set dressings (oh, and CGI routines for some of them)

And if enough people don't LOVE enough waves then the water tends to go calm and it seems that Hasbro has once again taken the road of hubris over the past experiences

And JT ain't bein nasty.... he's just being honest (and JT- I didn't notice the anti-EU growing so strong in you, you have now fully embraced the F.U., the Fuller Universe of SW)

JediTricks
03-25-2005, 07:45 PM
I'm not sure why you guys are even trying to convince him. He has stated several times that he finds the prequels lacking in several areas. I'm suprised he is still buying prequel figures at all. Trying to convince him that he should care about characters he doesn't isn't going to work.I buy prequel figs based on what I like the looks of, of the Saga line Jedi figs I got Weequay Jedi, Mace total control, Coleman Trebor, Kit Fisto, Deluxe Mace, and some main character Jedi figs. I bought other figs too, but I passed on almost as many as I bought, and regretted a few of the ones I did get.

My arguments in this thread have had 2 points, 1 based on how these figures affect me, and another on how I think the general buying audience will accept the opening salvo. I guess on the second point, there is still room for argument.


Even when we were making the Top 50 figures not made list he stuck with the core characters. This is quite true, I do like the core characters more, but I also had non-core characters from the OT more than from the PT, I think the PT background characters are like ROTJ's, they're more hollow and set-decor, brown lumps standing around drooling or robed people not really acting as if they were atmosphere. That's my take though.


Another thing to keep in mind is Hasbro hasn't seen the movie. I'm sure they ask Lucasfilm which character were going to be main characters and they gave them suggestions. The first part isn't accurate, Hasbro has seen the movie, not complete of course and not altogether, but they've been seeing it for at least a year now. The second part though is true, Lucas Licensing does seem to give them suggestions as to whom they think should be in there.



Yeah, I agree. I'll stop that's for sure. Some people just like being miserable and look for reasons to complain. Its just sad really. :cry: Geez, what a lame thing to say. Think for yourself instead of just jumping to conclusions AND insulting people. I didn't call you a "suckup" or "someone who just likes whatever Lucasfilm throws at them" because I have no idea if those things are true of you beyond what the surface details suggest, why don't you try treating me with the same respect instead of throwing a fit and dropping stupid insults?



Sadder still, If any of the "scenery jedi" does ANYTHING other than just stand there or maybe assume a combat stance, I'll eat my Ephant Mon Ah mabudon, I love it! Ephant smells so bad out of the package though, it'd be like Fear Factor. :p



Its not sad that he doesn't like it, its sad that he feels the need to be so nasty about the whole thing. That's only YOUR interpretation, I'm not trying to be nasty about the whole thing, I'm just explaining my feelings on this thread's topic in a frank and honest manner.


He responds by ripping on characters I didn't realize they were holy scripture, beyond reproach and a cardinal sin to even suggest they are flawed. C'mon, get serious, you're telling me you love every Star Wars character ever, there's not 1 guy you can't stand and think is dopey or just a total waste of time?


talking down to us Again, only in your interpretation.


That's what's sad, that he doesn't even seem to get that this is why Hasbro did it, and more new figures are coming, so just be patient and everyone will be happy. Now who's talking down to whom? And you're making excuses at the same time: "be patient", kiss my wookiee! The WHOLE point of this thread is about the opening salvo having too many boring revisited figures, patience is for another topic.


By the way, maybe those 8 Jedi I singled out will have SIGNIFICANT roles in the film when it comes out, I don't know, but my comments in this thread are talking about the toy line as it stands on April 2nd, nearly 2 months before the film comes out.



You keep mentioning how these characters of contention have "major" roles in the upcoming film that will change the minds of everyone who thinks Hasbro is dropping the ball on the opening, and I said that I am almost positive that, while they will be involved in key scenes, they will still be only scenery, likely still with NO speaking parts (which usually helps one in "getting to know" a character) Yeah, I didn't read the spoilers, but that's what I suspect is going to happen as well, it's how AOTC went down.


I guess for outright hardcore collectors who think that every "character" is awesome (having read the graphic novel, the collection of "tales" and pages upon pages of fan fiction, for every "character" out there) the first lineup is excellent, but there just isn't enough "Grab" factor in the line to be on much interest to the casual fan... Yeah, totally, that's what I think as well!


(and JT- I didn't notice the anti-EU growing so strong in you, you have now fully embraced the F.U., the Fuller Universe of SW) It's not anti-EU, the EU has it's place and helped start the modern SW craze with the Thrawn trilogy, but I'm not too into it and most SW fans I know aren't into it that much either. I did buy Asajj Ventress and Durge in the non-animated CW line, but I didn't really care about their backstories, they looked cool and were great action figures, I can make up my own EU for 'em. ;) So I'm only still a padawan of the Fuller Universe, not a master like yourself. :D

mephisto designs
03-26-2005, 03:23 AM
dude, i wasn't attacking you. you failed to quote where I said I can see where your coming from, then I said why I disagree. That's what public forums are for. And OF COURSE everything I say is my interpretation, that's the only one i have to go on. And I've already explained why I feel those characters are important, then you say you could have said I like everything Lucas throws at me. I don't buy all the figs, not by a long shot, I simply explained why I feel these are important, and why I bought them. Take it or leave it, I don't care anymore. Your constant quoting and then taking them well out of context has grown more than tiresome. I respect your decision! I really do! Then I explained my position in response. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. But just as you said you desire respect, so show me some, and you'll get it in return. I offer it to you now freely, just lighten up a little all right? :D

JediTricks
05-20-2005, 05:48 AM
Here's the spoiler free version of the arguement from JMS: All the Jedi you're calling rehashed, are in VERY KEY scenes involving them directly, scenes that people will want to set up immediately upon learning of the contents of these scenes... In other words, everyone who sees the film will want these figures as they are in SEVERAL key scenes. Several fight scenes of grand Star Wars tradition involve these Jedi. Bottom line, they matter

I won't put it so hard as mephisto designs did, but (and trying to be spoiler free here), those characters as mephisto designs mentioned and I as well, are in very key scenes. They matter to the overall developement of the story.Hmm, I didn't see any of this being an accurate representation of these characters. A couple were in a key scene but they were background fodder, "moving set decor". Almost every Jedi I had labeled a "background Jedi" from the previous 2 prequels seemed just as much in the background this time around, even more so with some. Let's look at JMS's spoilers I had overlooked the first time around...


Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto are part of teh arresting group along with Mace that go after Palpatine. It's a VERY important scene, so they do warrant figures. They are in the scene, but they don't utter a word and barely get in anything, I think Kit does the most with a lightsaber swing and then he gets a rather bland "baseball bat" death, leaving only Mace to go up against Palpatine. They barely had more screentime and activity than the statues in the office.


Beyond that, have you purchased these yet? I'd venture not since you seem adamant against them. I have and I mus say that the added articulation alone makes them worth getting. Now to boot in the case of Agen Kolar, we finally get a better representation of him instead of teh exact rehash of Eeth Koth, that Hasbro was trying to push off as Agen. I felt like a sucker but I did buy Agen Kolar, and the figure doesn't do much for me, his cloak doesn't really work, his saber is generic and he really can't hold it 2-handed very well (if at all), he is very skinny, has a hard time standing, and he's got that permanent downward gaze. He's not terrible, but I still don't think he warranted a figure in the first volley.


Now consider him (Ki-Adi), and Aayla. Both have specific scenes that show their resective deaths at the hands (well really blasters) of the Clonetroopers. You don't think people would want to recreate that scene? Sure they could use the AOTC ones, but then they wouldn't have that fig for their AOTC scenes. Again added articulation makes these figs worth buying.. I don't buy it, both of their death scenes flew by, they barely were able to defend themselves (Aayla didn't even get in any defense) and both scenes felt a little lost in the montage. Neither struck me as that majorly influential sequences and I wasn't particularly impressed with their Jedi actions there.


Now as to Luminara, I don't know ANY collector that was satisfied with her stagnant "web shooting" battle pose. Sure it looked cool, but you couldn't do anything else with her. The ROTS version is SO much better than the AOTC version that I'm going to replace the AOTC one with the ROTS one and buy a few extras for other dioramas for both AOTC and ROTS dioramas. But why have her so early on at all? I didn't even SEE her.


You'll be quite satisfied with Grievous and his bodyguards! I am. Grievous came off as a wheezy punk and his bodyguards had some clout but it got washed away after a while. None of their figures have really been dead-on either. I do like these figures, but they're not entirely satisfying and I like them despite their performances in the film rather than because.


Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were two of the founders of the Rebellion. For the story's sake they are needed. For Dioramas they are a must! Bail, ok, he got movie time... Mon Mothma though? She got cut from the film. She was the worst pegwarmer before the film was released and now she's not even in it, she is a big fat zero!


Plo Koon and Shaak Ti get nice articulation upgrades. Much better than any of their respective predessors. I don't have Plo, but I bought Shaak Ti around the time of Agen and like Agen I'm a bit disappointed in this figure. The arm articulation is able to hold a 2-handed saber pose but it's not great, the legs are spindly and not really able to hold the figure up without help from the soft-goods skirt, and most importantly, she didn't seem to be in the movie.


Let me point out what's collecting dust and damage on shelves (and in the case of TRU, in bins) now:

Obi-Wan (starting to dry up finally)
Anakin (ditto, but I see more of these than #1)
Yoda (Firing Cannon)
Super Battle Droid
Chewie
R2-D2 "Droid Attack"
Grievous' Bodyguard
Mace Windu
Palpatine "Firing Force Lightning"
Count Dooku
Chancellor Palpatine
Bail Organa
Plo Koon
Padme
Agen Kolar
Shaak Ti (not as bad lately)
Kit Fisto
Mon Mothma (terrible!)
Tarfful (ebbs and flows)
Yoda "Spinning Attack"
Obi-Wan "Jedi Kick"
Ki-Adi-Mundi (not as bad as most of these)
Saesee Tiin
Luminara Unduli (same as Mundi)
Aayla Secura (ebbs and flows but sometimes I see a LOT of this one)
Clone Pilot (I blame the head design, it's not a bad fig tho')
Palpatine #35
Grievous exploding (I kinda like this fig)
Vader's Medical Droid (just starting to warm pegs)
Polis Massan (ditto, but much worse already)
Mas Amedda (like the Chopper Droid)
Wookiee Warrior (ditto)

That's 32 figures total out of 44, the opening salvo as I called it mainly went to fig #32 and #33-44 all made it out before the movie's opening. So, I think I called it right, I'm fairly sure some of you still think I'm crackers.

drsidious
05-20-2005, 06:38 AM
i couldnt agree with just about any point more.
that post addressed almost every fig to movie cocern i had.
and why dont the arresting jedi's figures have robes.\?
ok agen does but so what.
and in retrospect the medical table vader is so movie innacurate im thinking of putting it away until #50 drops. then it may have some validity.
and i caught Luminara talkin to some wookies for like .02 seconds on kashkyk
no barriss no shak ti (after reading the screenplay and the novel i was
EXTREAMLY DISSAPPOINTED they were not in the film) even afer hasbro made 12 inchers. :frus:
i could ramble all day but ill leave it with these guys
:speech: :frus: :mad: :confused:

dindae
05-20-2005, 09:39 AM
Well after seeing the movie all I can say is that there aren't tons of figures to make for this flick. There really aren't many secondary characters. It's either main character or 2 second characters. I didn't read the spoilers so I'm not sure what scenes were cut and obviously Hasbro doesn't get that info in time to make changes to line-ups. I assume that Mon Mothma and Luminara would have had at least as much screen time as Aayla Secura had their scenes not been cut. We are done with all the main character anyway I can totally see why Hasbro did the rehashes in the initial onslaught. Aside from releasing every clone color combination out there I can only think of a few background characters to be made aside from a good non gimmick version of Anakin and Obi wan. So I guess I would rather them release a figure of a character I know, has a history, is in an action sequence, and featured in the clone wars cartoon then Capt. Antilles, young Tarkin, senators, or guards that did nothing in the film. I could see moving up Commande Baccara but that's about it. Mustafar Ani and Pilot Obi I think needed to be space out. If anyone can think of some more prominent characters they should do correct me?

WesleySr
05-20-2005, 04:24 PM
I can think of several characters:

Owen Lars
Beru Lars
Bail Organa's wife

several Senators

medical droids

dindae
05-20-2005, 04:53 PM
Owen Lars + Beru Lars - I could see these since they are in the ANH and AOTC

Bail Organa's wife - no lines only, a few seconds of screen time, what past history is there

several Senators - since there was no senate preceedings in this movie the only role any of the characters have is waiting for people to get out of a transport. How is this more important than getting gunned down in a planned masacre?

medical droids - we have 2-1b and other vader droid so that leaves the flying one near padme I still would not say this is an important character.

WesleySr
05-20-2005, 05:02 PM
First of all, dindae, thanks for posting and raising your count to 667 :) .

They have / are making Stass Allie w/ BARC Speeder, Plo Koon & Starfighter, Tarkin, Captain Antilles, & Mon Mothma.

These characters had few / no lines, very short screen times, and Mon Mothma didn't even make it into the final cut of the film.

There were other medical droids with Vader that they could make.

dindae
05-20-2005, 09:32 PM
Well I'm trying to take into account that Hasbro didn't know what scenes were getting cut at the time since I assume they wouldn't make a figure that wasn't going to be in the movie at all. My point is not that these characters are super important just that even though they have small parts that because they are jedi, in action sequences, and have a following they are a better choice for a figure than a senator or a medical droid than no one knows anything about. Keep in mind I want everything on screen made in 3 3/4 scale so I can put in with the rest of my stuff. I will by the Lucas cameo figure and think this is really cool, but right now Hasbro needs figures that will sell the best and even though we have them already jedi are cool and will sell. When I look at the figures that sit at TRU for 2 or 3 years its Ketwol, Zutton and Orn Free Taa not jedi. Now is the time of the new or non collector who are going to want more main characters.

WesleySr
05-20-2005, 09:46 PM
Very true, dindae, very true. They could make as many clones as they wanted, and they would never end up being pegwarmers.