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2-1B
03-22-2005, 04:32 AM
When Yoda tells Luke he is reckless in ESB, that was Ben's reply. I don't believe Ben was referring to his youthful days of a scamp under Yoda in the Bear Clan but rather at the time of his Knighting when he told Yoda "I will train Anakin. Without the council's permission if I must."

Sounds pretty reckless to me. lol

What do you think ? :)

stillakid
03-22-2005, 10:59 AM
When Yoda tells Luke he is reckless in ESB, that was Ben's reply. I don't believe Ben was referring to his youthful days of a scamp under Yoda in the Bear Clan but rather at the time of his Knighting when he told Yoda "I will train Anakin. Without the council's permission if I must."

Sounds pretty reckless to me. lol

What do you think ? :)


Well, that's one way to try to disprove my theories. :D

But really, I don't agree. While we can't know for sure, Spirit Ben seemed to be drawing a direct comparison between himself and Luke for the direct reason that he wanted Yoda to agree to train Luke just the way that Yoda decided to teach a younger Obi Wan.

However, you do bring up an interesting point in that because Spirit Ben was comparing himself to Luke, when do we ever see this in the Prequels? When was Obi Wan really ever "restless," as in "always looking away, to the future, to the horizon...never his mind on where he was, what he was doing." In contrast, the Obi Wan of the Prequels seems to be the only one in the story with any sense of focus on the tasks at hand. What gives?

2-1B
03-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Well, that's one way to try to disprove my theories. :D

You guys brought it up in that other thread and it seemed to be drifting off topic so I made a new thread of it. :)

As for Ben being restless, I don't think Obers was drawing a direct point by point comparison between himself and Luke, just the reckless part. When Ben tells Luke "I was wrong" about training his pops well enough, I think of that as applying to the reckless scenario. :)

darthvyn
03-22-2005, 08:26 PM
Well, that's one way to try to disprove my theories. :D

But really, I don't agree. While we can't know for sure, Spirit Ben seemed to be drawing a direct comparison between himself and Luke for the direct reason that he wanted Yoda to agree to train Luke just the way that Yoda decided to teach a younger Obi Wan.

However, you do bring up an interesting point in that because Spirit Ben was comparing himself to Luke, when do we ever see this in the Prequels? When was Obi Wan really ever "restless," as in "always looking away, to the future, to the horizon...never his mind on where he was, what he was doing." In contrast, the Obi Wan of the Prequels seems to be the only one in the story with any sense of focus on the tasks at hand. What gives?

it's basically the first couple of lines in TPM.

"it's not about the mission, master. it's something elsewhere, elusive."

"don't center on your anxieties, obi-wan. keep your concentration on the here-and-now, where it belongs."

seems to me like he was looking away, to the future or the horizon perhaps. according to qui-gon it definitely wasn't on where he was, or what he was doing...

JediTricks
03-23-2005, 03:42 AM
For all we know, Obi-Wan was reckless all the time before we met him, there doesn't need to be a direct cinematic connection OT-to-PT here, we don't need to have seen any of this supposed recklessness. Obi-Wan is talking about a pattern of behavior that corresponds either to Luke's age or level of training. Luke's age in ESB is a mere 20, 5 years younger than Obi-Wan was during the events of TPM; Luke's level of training seems to be muddled somewhere between youngling and early padawan, which could put it anywhere from the sickly-cute 5-year-olds seen in the Bear Clan to at least a year - though likely much more, like 15 years - before TPM (Qui-Gon suggests that Obi-Wan is ready for the trials of becoming a Jedi Knight in TPM, which is the END of padawanhood, Anakin becomes a padawan at age 9 in that same film).

2-1B
03-23-2005, 11:21 AM
True, because Yoda ALSO says "he is too old, too old to begin the training." So right there we can conclude that Ben was younger than Luke when he learned under Yoda. :)

stillakid
03-23-2005, 12:20 PM
True, because Yoda ALSO says "he is too old, too old to begin the training." So right there we can conclude that Ben was younger than Luke when he learned under Yoda. :)

Sort of...but more accurately, it would be "we can conclude the Ben was younger than Luke when he began training under Yoda." I have no doubt that they began Jedi school at a young-ish age. That isn't the problem that has been established. The problem is whether or not Yoda was Ben's ONLY teacher as the OT describes it and the Prequels contradict it. :)