PDA

View Full Version : Of course the Old Man Anakin ghost had to go - Vader couldn't have been past 40s



2-1B
03-22-2005, 05:00 AM
Forget about sentimental attachment to 'Bas Shaw, that ghost was too old in the first place.

If Anakin Skywalker was originally thought to be of an equal age with Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi, then that means Ben was the equivalent of Luke's dad. Gross. :beard:

No wonder Leia's mother died when Leia was very young, she must have died of old age. lol

So how old is Ben supposed to be in ANH, and I mean before the prequels even came along ? What, about 60 ? That's what I would have guessed as a kid.

Now with the prequels, Obi is about 25 in TPM, 35 in AOTC, and 38 in ROTS . . . tack on 20 more for the Saga Gap and that makes him 58 or so. Close enough for me.

Either way, that crusty old ghost man at the end of ROTJ was (I guess) supposed to be the same age as Obi-Wan which would make Anakin about 40 when he fathered Luke and Leia. I don't buy it. :)

Slicker
03-22-2005, 06:31 AM
I think the time line goes something like this:
12 in TPM
22 in AOTC
25ish in ROTS
45 in ANH
48 in ESB
and 51 in ROTJ

I'm not 100% sure about the time frame between ROTS and ANH it's either 20 or 30 years so figure accordingly but this would make Anakin 25ish when he got bizay.

rbaumhauer
03-22-2005, 08:12 AM
As has been pointed out many times, it's stated in the Annotated Screenplays that, during story meetings for ROTJ, the unmasked Anakin should be "in his sixties, about ten years younger than Obi-wan".

I think pegging Obi-wan's age at 60 in ANH is generous - I would have said late 60s (Guinness was 62 during filming, and everything from the time suggests that he was meant to be playing older). Also, Anakin is supposed to be younger than 12 in TPM - I think 9? And while three years does pass between ANH and ESB, I think ROTJ is generally thought to take place a few months later, not three more years. So, I think we end up around 45 for Anakin in ROTJ, based on the "current" timeline.

You'd think ol' George could at least keep to his own timeline, since the story has been set-in-stone in his head since he first dreamed it up :rolleyes: . Well, at least that's what he says when anybody points out ways that the story could have been better - "That's the story, that's just the way it's always been. I'm not making (bad) artistic decisions - you guys used to love me back in the day, and it's all one big, unchanging story, so why don't you love me now?"

Rick

JediTricks
03-23-2005, 02:18 AM
IIRC, Anakin is 9 in TPM, 19 in AOTC, 21 or 22 in ROTS, 39 or 40 in ANH, 42 or 43 in ESB, and 43 or 44 in ROTJ.

What bothered me about Anakin in TPM is he's 9, that's bad enough, but then he's played by a 7 year old kid.

Still, in his early to mid 40s in ROTJ, Anakin shouldn't be looking like Hayden either.

2-1B
03-23-2005, 10:35 AM
Still, in his early to mid 40s in ROTJ, Anakin shouldn't be looking like Hayden either.

Well, at least I can understand why George would have the ghost regress in the age of his appearance.
I don't understand why it would make sense for the ghost to age rapidly and look to be a decade or more older than Ghosti-Wan. :crazed:

ROTJ story meetings may have said Anakin was in his 60s but that still makes him 40+ when he fathered the twins and I don't like it.

evenflow
03-23-2005, 03:40 PM
I just think its awkward for Luke to look out there and see the young guy, i guess around his age if not younger, looking back at him, and that is his father. It just doesnt work.

Exhaust Port
03-23-2005, 08:45 PM
"I'm 37, I'm not old."

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-24-2005, 11:55 AM
He's 9 for the most part in TPM, but apparently turns 10 sometime on Naboo (can't remember where I read that); 20 in AOTC; 22 or 23 in ROTS; 41 or 42 in ANH; around 44 in ESB; so he's around 45 or so in ROTJ. Even without Sebastian as the ghost, he's still Anakin when the mask comes off. I think after what happens in ROTS, Anakin could look a few years older very easily.

Obi-Wan was 25 in TPM; 35 in AOTC; 37 or 38 in ROTS; so he's about 58 in ANH. In Insider, it said that his older appearance could likely be chalked up to sun damage (like on earth when someone tans too much, they get more wrinkles).

I don't know why people are raising such a stink about Hayden being the ghost. I mean, isn't it weird enough that he regrows all of his body parts, gets a full head of hair, and even after a life of killing people, he still gets to appear as a shiny blue ghost at all? Anakin, even though he came back for a short time in ROTJ, died in ROTS when Vader was born. So it makes sense to me that his spirit looks as it did when he truly died.

Here comes stillakid . . .

chewie
03-24-2005, 08:13 PM
Does stress prematurely age? I don't know if Obi-Wan's Jedi training allowed him to deal with personal issues better, but surely knowing that you helped create the man who eventually killed off most Jedi and several others and nearly forever removed the light side of the Force from the universe must weigh heavy on a person.

CaptainSolo1138
03-25-2005, 07:05 AM
Here comes stillakid . . .
LMAO!

I'm still not sold on young Ani in there, but it's probably because I've seen 'Bas Shaw's mug for the past 20 years. I'll get used to it. Kinda like Greedo shooting first. :rolleyes:

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-25-2005, 12:13 PM
Does stress prematurely age? I don't know if Obi-Wan's Jedi training allowed him to deal with personal issues better, but surely knowing that you helped create the man who eventually killed off most Jedi and several others and nearly forever removed the light side of the Force from the universe must weigh heavy on a person.
Yes, it does. I've seen people who look much older than they are. For instance, my uncle is a year older than my dad, but my uncle's had gray hair for about three years and my dad barely has any gray at all. Lots of stress for him.

Anyway, as seen in ROTS, Obi-Wan looks a little older than he should for a 38-year-old, but I assume Anakin's training and the Clone Wars could do that to a person.

scruffziller
03-29-2005, 02:39 PM
Here comes stillakid . . .

Although his reputation precedes him, he hasn't arrived.:D

stillakid
03-31-2005, 09:34 AM
Although his reputation precedes him, he hasn't arrived.:D

Oh alright, I'll say something. :D

Really, Rbaum has done all the hard work on this question and is 100% correct in his conclusions. There really isn't much to add.

As to Sebastakin being replaced by Haydakin in ROTJ, there is an entire thread someplace wherein myself and others proved without question that it was a bad idea and utterly wrong. One might make the conscious choice to like it or not, but that has nothing to do with it being subjectively in error. :D

The fundamental problem is of course the casting of Anakin Skywalker. Hayden was the WRONG choice from top to bottom. Wrong actor, wrong sensibilities, wrong height, wrong overall size, wrong voice, wrong age. Not one thing even remotely hints at this rendition of Anakin being related to Darth Vader and Sebastakin. Any attempts to justify the choice are merely rationalizations.

rbaumhauer
03-31-2005, 11:02 AM
Thanks for the props :)

On the topic of Hayden not being physically right for the role, has anybody taken a look at the photos of him in the Vader armor, with the shoulder armor sticking out what looks like a foot beyond Hayden's shoulders?

Okay, I'm exaggerating, but it's still almost comical that ol' George is insisting on putting Hayden in the armor, in spite of his being about as far from the proper build as possible, and doing it so he can hammer home another one of his ridiculous revisions (which he never made, of course - it was always supposed to be the young Anakin that appeared at the end of ROTJ, right?).

Rick

sith_killer_99
03-31-2005, 11:26 AM
Hmmm... I believe Hayden had to work pretty hard to convince old George to let him wear the armor. From what I have heard, George wanted to put someone else in the armor.

scruffziller
03-31-2005, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the props :)

On the topic of Hayden not being physically right for the role, has anybody taken a look at the photos of him in the Vader armor, with the shoulder armor sticking out what looks like a foot beyond Hayden's shoulders?


Yea, seeing Hayden in the Vader suit looks wrong. It looks a teenager going to a Halloween party. Vader looks way too skinny, even with all the buffing up that Haydikin did for EPS 3. Look at Hayden in the trailers and then go watch Clockwork Orange and see Prowse. Prowse is lightyears away in body mass than Hayden probably ever will be. Look at the comparison below. Will it also be rationalized that Anikin's remaining organic body will grow into the suit between EPS 3 and EPS 4 through Super Sith vitamins.:rolleyes:

rbaumhauer
03-31-2005, 04:14 PM
Sorry, haven't exactly been paying attention to Ep3 filming news, so if it was a case of Hayden lobbying to wear the suit, I apologize for the mis-characterization. Be that as it may, if George wanted somebody else in the suit, he should have gone with his initial instinct ;)

Rick

JediTricks
03-31-2005, 05:11 PM
On the topic of Hayden not being physically right for the role, has anybody taken a look at the photos of him in the Vader armor, with the shoulder armor sticking out what looks like a foot beyond Hayden's shoulders?

Okay, I'm exaggerating, but it's still almost comical that ol' George is insisting on putting Hayden in the armor, in spite of his being about as far from the proper build as possible, and doing it so he can hammer home another one of his ridiculous revisions (which he never made, of course - it was always supposed to be the young Anakin that appeared at the end of ROTJ, right?).Yeah, I can't stand the way the ROTS Hayden-Vader looks, it's out of scale, small, tiny hands, just looks totally off, and some of the toys even represent this so THEY look bizarre as well.

MaquisWarrior
04-04-2005, 01:38 AM
Actually, now follow along, this is both funny but possibly racist...Since James Earl Jones is Vader's voice than that means that Mace Windu is Luke's (leia's) father and Annie got blamed; the guy scores and the one on the bench gets the credit for the W. "Let me see you with mine own eyes...." Luke takes off the helmet and sees Vader's real face. "GASP! You're black!" All the fighting stops as INN (the Imperial CNN) is broadcassting the war live. Mace:"RIGHT ON BROTHER!" (Shaft theme) "I'm YO :cool: :bored: :stupid: :o :confused: ng daddy BOY! Live with it! Anakin ws killed with the first Death Star like everyone remembers back in the day of 1977!"

Version commercial: She gets it, He gets it, Why don't YOU GET IT LUKE? I AM YOUR DADA...YOU DON'T CALL...PLEASE LUKE THAT :stupid: :sur: :greedy: CH ADMIDALA BRAINWASHED YOU AGAIN ME!

Devo
04-04-2005, 12:17 PM
Oh alright, I'll say something. :D

Really, Rbaum has done all the hard work on this question and is 100% correct in his conclusions. There really isn't much to add.

As to Sebastakin being replaced by Haydakin in ROTJ, there is an entire thread someplace wherein myself and others proved without question that it was a bad idea and utterly wrong. One might make the conscious choice to like it or not, but that has nothing to do with it being subjectively in error. :D

The fundamental problem is of course the casting of Anakin Skywalker. Hayden was the WRONG choice from top to bottom. Wrong actor, wrong sensibilities, wrong height, wrong overall size, wrong voice, wrong age. Not one thing even remotely hints at this rendition of Anakin being related to Darth Vader and Sebastakin. Any attempts to justify the choice are merely rationalizations.

Agreed. Francis?? (obscure monty python quote, I noticed someone else do one)

But yeah I agree. I just cannot see Darth Vader in Hayden Christensen's Anakin. Not in his physical presence, not in his voice and inflections and certainly (though not Haydens fault) not in the dialogue he is given. I can't imagine Darth Vader having an opinion on 'sand' one way or another let alone actually offering it....with a view to pulling a girl.

My problem with the Hayden ghost isn't so much the affront to Sebastian Shaw because he is still in the film but in how awkward Hayden looks in the scene. As soon as he fades in he looks down with an almost embarrassed expression and glances at Obi and Yoda before turning his patented evil stare on Luke - hardly appropriate.