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View Full Version : "I can't see a thing in this helmet."



stillakid
03-27-2005, 02:50 PM
I know that according to EU and sourcebooks and the like, the interior of the Stormtrooper helmet was outfitted with infrared camera like visual devices so that the Stormtroopers could see better with the helmet than without. Of course the films themselves never really address this at all.

So assuming that the films are canon, why would the Empire make helmets that the "clones" can't see well out of?

bobafrett
03-27-2005, 03:02 PM
If you look at the "Star Wars the visual dictionary" you can see a cross section of the inside of a Stormtroopers helmet. It looks vary hard to see out of, in fact the Stormtrooper helmet I wear is very hard to see out of, at least down low or of to the sides, and I don't even have anything in the way of the lens.

I think that as part of the "clones" training they are taught how to see out of the helmets, and their eyes adjust to looking through these eye pieces. Luke, not being trained as a soldier of the Empire would naturally find it harder to see out of a Stormtroopers helmet, hence "I can't see a thing in this helmet"

Rocketboy
03-27-2005, 11:35 PM
I assumed they were fitted for the one intended on wearing it.

stillakid
03-28-2005, 12:14 AM
I assumed they were fitted for the one intended on wearing it.

:confused: You're suggesting that the Empire hand-crafted EACH helmet for each individual? But these are supposed to be clones meaning that all the armor should be the exact same. No?

I mean, I had considered the line "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper" to be a sort of onscreen "explanation" for why Luke can't see very well. But like I said before, it seems odd anyway that the helmets have such small eyepieces in the first place. The Bikerscouts presumably have extra large lenses because they "need" to be able to see better. Why doesn't that apply to normal Troopers? It sort of implies that there IS some kind of extra technology inside the Trooper helmet that allows them to see better than they could without the helmet, as the EU and sourcebooks claim. :confused:

scruffziller
03-28-2005, 09:47 AM
:confused: You're suggesting that the Empire hand-crafted EACH helmet for each individual? But these are supposed to be clones meaning that all the armor should be the exact same. No?

I mean, I had considered the line "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper" to be a sort of onscreen "explanation" for why Luke can't see very well. But like I said before, it seems odd anyway that the helmets have such small eyepieces in the first place. The Bikerscouts presumably have extra large lenses because they "need" to be able to see better. Why doesn't that apply to normal Troopers? It sort of implies that there IS some kind of extra technology inside the Trooper helmet that allows them to see better than they could without the helmet, as the EU and sourcebooks claim. :confused:

They're expendable, look at the TIE fighters, it's basically a seat with a gun and wings.

Jayspawn
03-28-2005, 11:07 AM
Luke wasnt used to wearing a Stormtrooper Helmet -so hes not used to having to look through it. He did alright though.

El Chuxter
03-28-2005, 11:39 AM
In the Republic Commando: Hard Contact novel, it says there are all sorts of HUDs that pop up as a result of looking at certain sections of the interior of the helmet and blinking. The Commandoes are trained all their lives to deal with the helmets. I assume Clonetrooper and Stormtrooper helmets are the same way.

However, that doesn't explain how the conscripted non-clone Stormies use the helmets with such ease.

Rocketboy
03-28-2005, 01:07 PM
:confused: You're suggesting that the Empire hand-crafted EACH helmet for each individual? But these are supposed to be clones meaning that all the armor should be the exact same. No?That's almost exactly what I'm saying. I meant that it is a basic helmet, fitted on the inside for the individual.
It's a massive Empire. They have the resources to do so.

And I believe Lucas has said (or alluded too the fact) that the OT Stormtroopers are not Jango clones. With Jango dead, they eventually ran out of genetic material, so they either recruited men or used new genetic material for new clones, resulting in different sized troops.

CaptainSolo1138
03-28-2005, 02:22 PM
I assume that Luke had the helmet tipped up or down and couldn't see out of the eyepieces or utilize whatever heads-up type display is installed in them.

CaptainSolo1138
03-28-2005, 02:28 PM
The OT Stormtroopers are not Jango clones. With Jango dead, they eventually ran out of genetic material, so they either recruited men or used new genetic material for new clones, resulting in different sized troops.
Not trying to stir up the hornets :D , but couldn't they just use clone DNA, since it's probably 100% Jango's anyway? This seems like the logical, speedy, and cost-effective way to do it (vs. recruiting, training, etc.).

El Chuxter
03-28-2005, 02:40 PM
The way I see it, any explanation of how the helmets work is EU anyway (unless Lucas decides to stop the action in ROTS to provide a details explanation ;)), so there's no trouble dipping into other EU stuff while we're on the topic.

That in mind, all Stormtroopers are not clones of Jango Fett. They're a mix of clones and conscripts. This is from several sources.

Rocketboy
03-28-2005, 03:11 PM
Not trying to stir up the hornets :D , but couldn't they just use clone DNA, since it's probably 100% Jango's anyway? This seems like the logical, speedy, and cost-effective way to do it (vs. recruiting, training, etc.).I see using modified Jango clone DNA as making a copy of a copy of a copy. Sure the first few will look ok, but when you get to the 4th or 5th generation copy, it's a mess.

bobafrett
03-28-2005, 10:19 PM
I see using modified Jango clone DNA as making a copy of a copy of a copy. Sure the first few will look ok, but when you get to the 4th or 5th generation copy, it's a mess.

Being as I am only 5'09", I am a little short for a Stormtrooper, also when walking, my chest armor tends to ride up and bump my helmet up, which in turn, makes it so I "can't see a thing in this helmet. What height is Mark Hamill? Come on, someone out there has to know, or at least know where to find out.

http://www.skaught.com/501st/proofs/0523tk.jpg

JediTricks
03-28-2005, 10:26 PM
Hamill is 5'8".

The stormtrooper helmets have smoked lenses, that alone would make them hard to see out of, and then there's the curved shape, the small size, there are a few factors involved just at the canon level alone, then there are tons more EU possibilities like perhaps polarized lenses that have to be switched on.

2-1B
03-29-2005, 12:49 AM
Han had no problem getting around in that helmet. I figure it's meant for a certain height, a clone height, and Luke doesn't measure up. Han, however, does.

rbaumhauer
03-29-2005, 12:56 AM
Uhm, are you guys really suggesting that a helmet can be hard to see out of because somebody is short? That makes no sense - stand next to somebody who is significantly shorter/taller than you, and you'll notice that the difference is in the leg and/or torso length.

Rick

2-1B
03-29-2005, 02:44 AM
Uhm, apparently it makes some sense if bobafrett's shorter frame leads to bumping his helmet up. ;)

stillakid
03-29-2005, 09:32 AM
Hamill is 5'8".

Tem Morrison is 5'7"


So where does that leave us?

CaptainSolo1138
03-29-2005, 11:54 AM
Perhaps the difference is in head circumferance. If I (head size 7 1/4) put on a hat that is, say, a size 8, it's going to slide around on my head and have a tendancy to slide forward, backwards, or off to the side. Basically, it'd take alot of effort to keep it on straight. Even if "Jango" and "Luke" are the same height, there may be a significant difference in their head sizes.

mabudonicus
03-29-2005, 11:58 AM
Maybe, since Han is a clone, the helmet fit him perfectly, and since Luke wasn't, it didn't fit him so good :beard:

JediTricks
03-29-2005, 05:38 PM
Han had no problem getting around in that helmet. I figure it's meant for a certain height, a clone height, and Luke doesn't measure up. Han, however, does.
Han had prior experience working for the Empire, perhaps that's where he learned to use the helmet. Then again, Han didn't notice the door opening behind him in the elevator, so maybe he just doesn't feel like complaining and has the same problem.



Tem Morrison is 5'7"

So where does that leave us?In shortsville, baby! :D

bobafrett
03-29-2005, 06:37 PM
I know when I had my Tusken mask made, the gentleman who made it, had me measure the distance between my pupils, the circumfrance and the width, and heigth of my noggin, so when I got my mask, it fit snuggly over my face, and held there for the entire duration of my wearing it. Now, I've lent the mask to others, and they literally have to hold the mouth piece to keep it from slipping forward. I have a pretty large head, and I'm glad the person who made this took the time to make it fit. My trooper armor on the other hand, does bump the helmet up. When I was at CII, we were marching from the stairway at the RCA dome, and into the hall. I kept falling behind, because I was having to hold my helmet down. Then as we made our way through the hall, I bould not see smaller itewms, and I tripped over a coffee table *Wham* right down on my front. All I could here was "trooper down' trooper down".

Plus like I said, in the visual reference book the eye pieces looked much harder to see through than just looking through the smoked bubble lenses that troopers like myself wear. Some troopers have gone with a flat green lens. I noticed that the troopers in ESB have something more along those lines. I prefer the bubble lense myself.

2-1B
03-30-2005, 02:54 AM
Maybe, since Han is a clone, the helmet fit him perfectly, and since Luke wasn't, it didn't fit him so good :beard:

but I thought Han is a false-clone ? :confused:

darthvyn
03-30-2005, 07:29 PM
Not trying to stir up the hornets :D , but couldn't they just use clone DNA, since it's probably 100% Jango's anyway? This seems like the logical, speedy, and cost-effective way to do it (vs. recruiting, training, etc.).

you didn't see "multiplicity"?

first you get the clonetrooper that has a good business sense, then you get the clonetrooper that does the housework and the feminine side stuff, then you get the semi-retarded clonetrooper that calls everybody "steve."

bigbarada
04-15-2005, 03:33 PM
I know that according to EU and sourcebooks and the like, the interior of the Stormtrooper helmet was outfitted with infrared camera like visual devices so that the Stormtroopers could see better with the helmet than without. Of course the films themselves never really address this at all.

So assuming that the films are canon, why would the Empire make helmets that the "clones" can't see well out of?

The answer is easy:

The army makes gas masks that, unless you are trained to use them and accustomed to wearing them, are very difficult to see out of.

The Stormtrooper helmets could operate on the same principle. Unless you had been wearing them for years, you would have problems seeing anything.

Of course, the real answer is, they look cool on film so who cares if they are practical or not?

The Biker Scout helmet is probably the most non-aerodynamic design of all the OT Imperials, and yet we are supposed to believe that these troopers can wear these while racing at 200 mph and NOT be ripped off of their bikes?

Short answer: Science and Star Wars just don't mix.

JediTricks
04-15-2005, 06:23 PM
I still like my theory that speederbikes put out a "windshield" repulsorfield which also aids in control, but yeah, if nothing else that visor scoop above the eyes of the helmet would create maximum resistance.

stillakid
04-15-2005, 11:56 PM
Well, they're not really going 200 mph either, so I don't think the resistance is much of a factor. :D

In light of all the guesses we've seen here, all I have to add is a slight clarification to my original question. It just seems to me that the Empire, being the technological behemoth that we are supposed to believe it is, would be creating armor for it's troops that gives an advantage that an unarmored soldier wouldn't have. Clearly the armor isn't all that laser proof (so what's really the point of wearing it...for that matter, a lot of troopers got killed by rocks thrown by teddy bears, so really, WHAT is the point?)...but assuming that it is supposed to give a real advantage, part of that would be something in the helmet to let them breath better, hear better, and see better. The EU sourcebooks say this outright. So given that this would indeed be the probability, why would Luke put on one of these advanced helmets and not be able to see out of it very well? That thing would/should have macro-binoculars and infrared built in. He should have been able to see through Leia's clothes! :eek: No?

mabudonicus
04-16-2005, 07:48 AM
Maybe Luke is just a tool :beard:
Or maybe the trooper who's helmet he stole was actually blind and the whole thing worked on neuro impulses....

OR maybe in Lucas' mind the troopers had some sort of interface, say at the base of their skull, where the helmet would sorta plug in, and since Han was a Stormtrooper it fit him perfectly, whereas since Luke was a tool it did not

OR maybe the Han took down one stormtrooper (and this theory does NOT require Han to be a clone ;)) totaly by surprise, while Luke's guy sorta saw him coming right before he got killed and did some sort of jaw movement which rendered the helmet inoperable, as the Empire would likely have some sort of provisions to keep enemies from using their own technology against them (sort of a dead-man sabotage switch even, I dunno)

We should also have a debate about aunt Beru's classic line "I think so" :D :D :beard:

bigbarada
04-16-2005, 06:01 PM
Well, they're not really going 200 mph either, so I don't think the resistance is much of a factor. :D

In light of all the guesses we've seen here, all I have to add is a slight clarification to my original question. It just seems to me that the Empire, being the technological behemoth that we are supposed to believe it is, would be creating armor for it's troops that gives an advantage that an unarmored soldier wouldn't have. Clearly the armor isn't all that laser proof (so what's really the point of wearing it...for that matter, a lot of troopers got killed by rocks thrown by teddy bears, so really, WHAT is the point?)...but assuming that it is supposed to give a real advantage, part of that would be something in the helmet to let them breath better, hear better, and see better. The EU sourcebooks say this outright. So given that this would indeed be the probability, why would Luke put on one of these advanced helmets and not be able to see out of it very well? That thing would/should have macro-binoculars and infrared built in. He should have been able to see through Leia's clothes! :eek: No?

Realistically speaking, all of the Star Wars helmets create more of a detriment in battle than anything else. Primarily because they severly block off peripheral vision. The only possible reasoning for wearing them would be if they had some sort of electronic enhancement to normal human vision.

Rationalizing away, we could assume that somehow Luke's helmet was damaged in the scuffle aboard the Millenium Falcon and was malfunctioning.:rolleyes:

Obviously there is no form of infra-red on those helmets since the two troopers guarding the shield generator would have easily detected Obi-Wan on the platform.

Ji'dai
04-16-2005, 10:38 PM
In light of all the guesses we've seen here, all I have to add is a slight clarification to my original question. It just seems to me that the Empire, being the technological behemoth that we are supposed to believe it is, would be creating armor for it's troops that gives an advantage that an unarmored soldier wouldn't have.

I don't think it really matters if Stormtrooper helmets and armor are effective or useful in combat. Do you think the Emperor really cares about his troops in the trenches? They are just another tool in his arsenal or rather pawns on his galactic holoboard. I think Stormtrooper armor is designed to be more of a deterrant against attack than combat effective. Oppressed peoples would see a squad of armored Imperial Stormtroopers or a Star Destroyer and think twice about launching an attack. When Luke makes his comment about not being able to see anything in the helmet, he's probably honestly surprised that it's not a more sophisticated piece of equipment. Maybe that's what the Empire wants the local yokels to believe. Han, being the more experienced spacer, probably knows Stormtrooper gear ain't nothing special.

Now I know the Empire is not all smoke and mirrors. Stormtrooper armor may not be combat effective and troopers might not be the best shots in the galaxy, but if you put enough of them on the field they'll eventually hit something. Imperial Navy warships may not be the most manueverable ships in space but they pack mighty wallop. I think the Empire's primary tactic (besides fear - a deterrant) is just overwhelming numerical superiority. Most opposition is just beaten down and overrun.

If an insurrection would overthrow an Imperial garrison on some backwater world do you think the Emperor would order a blue-ribbon panel to determine why Stormtrooper armor was ineffective in protecting his beloved troops or why they were out-gunned by a bunch of bumpkins with outdated weapons? Would the Emperor ask the Imperial Senate to launch a study on why Imperial vehicles weren't sufficently armored on this planet? Hell no. The Emperor would simply send in a massive force to bombard the planet. (Or with the Death Star, destroy it altogther). The survivors, if any, would be enslaved off-world and the planet would be poisoned to make it uninhabitable. So the Empire lost a few hundred troops due to pretty but shoddy armor. Big deal. But look what the Emperor gained: by making an example out of his rebellious subjects on said planet he's sent a pretty effective message to nearby systems - rebel and die.

The Emperor is not some weak, insecure autocrat hiding behind a powerful army. He (and his enforcer, Vader) is the true center of power in the Empire. No emeny besides a Jedi could really be a threat to him. And the surviving Jedi are either too old or disorganized to be a threat or have resigned themselves to defeat. I don't think the Emperor views the Rebel Alliance as much of a threat. He probably gets some perverse pleasure in toying with them as a cat would a mouse before killing it. The Alliance doesn't become a real threat to him until a potential Jedi appears among them. And had Luke not possessed that particular family pedigree of interest to the Emperor, he may not have even given Luke a second thought.

JediTricks
04-17-2005, 04:40 PM
Well, they're not really going 200 mph either, so I don't think the resistance is much of a factor. :DHave you ever ridden a motorcycle with an open helmet or no helmet at all? Even going freeway speeds there is plenty of wind attacking your head, imagine what wind resistance going 150 would do to a big fat scoop attached to the front of your helmet - it'd probably rip you right off the bike, head first.


but assuming that it is supposed to give a real advantage, part of that would be something in the helmet to let them breath better, hear better, and see better. The EU sourcebooks say this outright. So given that this would indeed be the probability, why would Luke put on one of these advanced helmets and not be able to see out of it very well? That thing would/should have macro-binoculars and infrared built in. Luke didn't know he had to turn the helmet on. :p As for macro-binoculars, we know that's not the case as the Sandtroopers are using external binocs in the film. Maybe the helmets have heads-up displays which relay real-time battle info to their view.



The only possible reasoning for wearing them would be if they had some sort of electronic enhancement to normal human vision. Well, there's also the enemy-demoralizing factor, and the spaceworthiness issue.

bobafrett
04-17-2005, 07:17 PM
I tell you, look in the Star Wars visual guide. They have a cross section of the interior of a Stormtroopers helmet. Where you just see the bubble lenses on the outside, the interior eye section has two tiny areas, about the size of pupils to look out of. The rest of the area around that looks like machinery that helps focus or maybe target the enemy. My guess is that if you aren't trained to use these eye pieces, then you are pretty much blind to seeing anything, or unable to "see a thing out of this helmet".

stillakid
04-17-2005, 07:53 PM
Have you ever ridden a motorcycle with an open helmet or no helmet at all? Even going freeway speeds there is plenty of wind attacking your head, imagine what wind resistance going 150 would do to a big fat scoop attached to the front of your helmet - it'd probably rip you right off the bike, head first..


Ah, but check out the cloaks of our heroes as they gently ripple through the breeze. :D

scruffziller
04-18-2005, 10:35 AM
The visual dictionary shows that the apparatus that goes in front of the eyes is like that of putting your eyes up to 2 microscope eyepieces. Don't know if this is how yours looks like inside Bobafrett, but it looks like it would be hard to wear.

JediTricks
04-18-2005, 09:02 PM
Ah, but check out the cloaks of our heroes as they gently ripple through the breeze. :D
Yeah, but if there wasn't some wind deflection, their ponchos would have been quickly flapped to shreds and whipping around like crazy. That would have been pretty cool actually. :D

bobafrett
04-18-2005, 11:20 PM
The visual dictionary shows that the apparatus that goes in front of the eyes is like that of putting your eyes up to 2 microscope eyepieces. Don't know if this is how yours looks like inside Bobafrett, but it looks like it would be hard to wear.

Where did you get that shot from Scruff? I have a cut out in my visual dictionary similar to that, but from the back, I wonder if they changed it in different printings of the book. No, my helmet looks rather bland on the inside. If I get some pictures of it, I will post them.

scruffziller
04-19-2005, 08:21 AM
I found it on the net, I was looking for the actual shot in the visual dictionary but it gives you at least one eyepiece to show how bizzare it would be to see out of. Looks like you would be trained to look out of them. So Luke putting it on for the first time, wouldn't know how to look out of it.