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View Full Version : How Does Obi and Yoda Know Vader's True Identity?



Imperial Monarche
03-30-2005, 11:33 PM
This is one of those threads that kinda falls in between ROTS and the OT, so I threw it into the OT section.

Now, I was just thinking the other day. Assuming that Obi-Wan and Yoda aren't sitting in the operating room when Vader is made, how do they know that Anakin is really Vader? Will Obi-Wan flee, thinking that Anakin is dead after their battle? If that's so, then how will he know Vader's true identity? Do they just use the Force?

*on second thought, maybe this would be better in the ROTS spoiler section. Could a moderator move it please.*

Kidhuman
03-30-2005, 11:48 PM
I believe in his turn to the darkside, before he gets crispified, he changes his name to Darth Vader.

Beast
03-31-2005, 12:00 AM
I believe in his turn to the darkside, before he gets crispified, he changes his name to Darth Vader.
Once it gets moved, I'll post the spoiler. But Kidhuman is close. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

chewie
03-31-2005, 01:43 AM
I don't think the original trilogy even spelled out that Obi-Wan and Vader actually fought each other before A New Hope. Its only by inference in the movies and by non-movie sources that we recognize an Obi-Wan vs. dark side Anakin fight as fact. Though the final prequel appears to put an end to such speculation without question.

If you don't want anybody to use spoilers from Episode III, there is still a way to show how Obi-Wan knew Vader was Anakin. Through simple process of elimination Obi-Wan could certainly have figured out who Vader was even without having ever seen or heard the name Darth Vader being applied to Anakin Skywalker.

In Return of the Jedi Leia could sense that Luke didn't die on the Death Star. Obi-Wan being a very highly trained force user would certainly be able to tell if a specific somebody had died. Especially somebody who was a "good friend" and whom he trained. When the Empire suddenly had a powerful force user named Darth Vader in a cybernetic outfit mowing down all but the last two Jedi and with Obi-Wan knowing Anakin was a traitor plus sensing he was not dead, then the only logical conclusion would be to assume that Darth Vader was indeed Anakin Skywalker.

Don't forget Yoda's ability to watch people from long distance. Yoda peeped in on Luke's life all the way from Dagobah. If force ability was fairly similar with Yoda and Obi-Wan, then Kenobi could have done the same and watched Anakin become the murderous traitor Darth Vader.

BanthaPoodoo
03-31-2005, 01:57 PM
+++ HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD - YOU ARE WARNED - DO NOT READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW +++

Highlight to read:




What happens is that before they fight (obi & anakin), Anakin's name has already been changed to Darth Vader.

Right after Mace gets axed by Palps, Anakin says, hey we've both been betrayed by the Jedi (him and palps). Palps says Anakin, you are one with the order of the sith lords, henceforth you shall be known as Darth Vader....

Thats how he gets his name!

Yoda finds out his new name because he fights with Palpatine and says Darth Vader will be more powerful than either of us.

So Yoda finds out the apprentice of Palpatine is Anakin & that his new name is Darth Vader. When Obi is fighting Anakin, Anakin tells Obi he has joined the Sith. With this info, Yoda & Obi put together that knowledge & deduce that Darth Vader is Anakin.

Jargo
03-31-2005, 02:38 PM
At the end of the Jedi Temple slaughter Anakin and Palpy speed off in a souped up Sith hotrod speeder with a green strip across the glass windscreen and in white lettering it says 'Darth Vader hearts Palpatine' Simple really. it's all on the holo recordings Obi and Yoda watch........... honest. :crazed:

DarthBrandon
03-31-2005, 03:23 PM
It's simple really, Vader farts & Yoda/Obi smell a disturbance in the force (smells like Mustafart). :D

Beast
03-31-2005, 04:38 PM
Since the thread has finally been moved..

Kidhuman and Bantha Poodoo are both very close. Anakin does get his Sith name before he takes a dip in the lava. When Yoda and Obi-Wan return to find the slaughtered Jedi Temple, they find a holo recording with Anakin being knighted in the Sith by Darth Sidious. Sidious names him Darth Vader. In fact I assume the "Lord Vader." and "Riiiiise" are from the knighting ceremony, not the 'Birth of Darth Vader' in his armor. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Kidhuman
03-31-2005, 05:29 PM
JJB, in the teaser, JJE's voice says yes master, so it might not be from that scene the whole Lord Vader...Rise

Beast
03-31-2005, 11:23 PM
JJB, in the teaser, JJE's voice says yes master, so it might not be from that scene the whole Lord Vader...Rise
The "Yes Master" is from the 'Birth Scene'. The "Lord Vader" and "Rise" are from the knighting. If Vader is strapped to a table, Sidious isn't going to order him to rise. Especially consider he's not rising, the table is being raised forward. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

2-1B
04-01-2005, 04:52 AM
Agreed Binksy, they do that all the time by switching dialogue in and out for the trailers.

sith_killer_99
04-01-2005, 06:59 AM
JJB, is correct, I just finished listening to the entire, unabridged, audio book!

BanthaPoodoo
04-01-2005, 11:58 AM
Yep, I finished reading the Trade Paperback & am in the middle of the audio book... the really good stuff starts happening on Disc 9!!!

LTBasker
04-01-2005, 03:43 PM
The "Lord Vader" and "Rise" are from the knighting. If Vader is strapped to a table, Sidious isn't going to order him to rise.

I don't know, them Sith are mean fellas. :p :beard:

I hope they retouch the "Rise" line though, in the trailer it sounds like Palpy's trying to get out of a bean bag chair.

Jargo
04-02-2005, 11:08 PM
I've just read the official published script and have to say it's ok, has stinky dialogue like all the scripts but there are three huge holes. One is the scene where Yoda and Obi watch the holovid of anakin. which is pretty lame. The whole beacon thing is just wedged in there for a reason to get Yoda and Obi to the temple but it's weak and skinny as plot points go. The other is Padme dying. incredibly weak. In fact padme serveslittle to no purpose in the movie at all. Perhaps as the story goes she might but as far as dialogue goes she's so wishy washy and not the brave fighting woman we've been lead to believe she is. Yeah so she's pregnant but she's made out to be some simpering little girly in this movie. mooning over Anakin and wearing pretty frocks. disappointing.

The final disappointment is the whole turning point of Anakin. unbelievable. Not deep enough. sure once he's turned he becomes evil but the point of turning he has little motivation and again it's a thing and weedy point in the dialogue and plot. It's just glossed over like they couldn't think up anything really good and wanted to get to the meaty stuff. when in fact it should have been the other way round.

I won't mention my disgust at the dismemberment count but suffice to say I really do think lucas is a warped individual now. How can he justify removing the blaster shots from the detention block scene and then put out a movie with so much carnage and death? I'm convinced that Palpatine actually represents himself. He does after all have his own empire and troopers who fear him and will defend him to death. He does have a love of technology and a failing when it comes to dealing with human emotions. And he has adopted apprentices who he is training up after his own image in the evil world on movie making. lol

oh and the Jar Jar appearance is truly annoying and innapropriate at the point it happens in the story. well his second appearance anyway. Thankfully there's little of C-3PO and his schtick. But reading the script and looking at the many many pictures on the net it feels like LFL have thrown everything but the kitchen sink into this one and most of it looks to be designed with merchandising in mind. Call me cynical but there's years worth of toys from this movie alone let alone the rest of the saga.

I digress as always.

so yeah the knowledge that Anakin is Vader comes from the holovid at the jedi library but in the script yoda refers to him as darth vader where Palpatine only says Lord Vader. it isn't said but implied that yoda knows that the sith are all named darth something or other. trouble is that isn't relayed to the viewer. who will mostly be young and dumb. A droid says to Yoda that Padme has lost the will to live but is bodily healthy. which i suppose implies that padme dies of a broken heart but that too isn't explained for the hard of thinking.

I don't know. He goes to all the trouble of over explaining the midichlorian thing and the vanishing jedi trick but misses out other stuff. just stupid. but none so stupid as the Anakin turn to the darkside. that really is the stupidest bit of scripting I've read in a long time.