View Full Version : Problems with Revenge of the Sith in some bad writing - for those with the comic book
03-31-2005, 03:45 PM
I have the comic book trade paperback that explains the entire movie.
This thread is for those who have thoroughly read it.
I am afraid the prequel trilogy is going to be only about 90% or a little less of what I wanted. It hinges on several issues:
ANAKIN'S MOTIVATION TO GO TO THE DARK SIDE:
Sure, he wants Power to save Padme and believes Palpatine can teach him this when he learns he's the Dark Lord of the Sith.
Perhaps the comic doesn't show too much of Anakin wanting Mace to spare Palpatine's life for this reason, or maybe I read it too fast - but Anakin's rationalizing that Mace betrayed him and was wrong to kill the Sith Lord / Chancellor seems weaker than if everything had torn at Anakin (had Dooku been his father and the Jedi not told him and allowed him to kill Dooku with never knowing - THIS IS NOT THE CASE, but should have been).
I think the way Lucas did it gets 90% of the message across, but doesn't go full circle.
ANAKIN'S FALL INTO LAVA:
Obi-Wan says he loves him, but lets Anakin fall anyway, in order to finish it and end the Sith.
I'd have had Obi-Wan trying to save Anakin to the last, and Anakin refusing his help and die while acusing Obi-Wan's "give me your hand offer" as a trick. Obi-Wan comes off less compassionate than I estimated his character to be by letting Anakin go out this way.
SIDIOUS EXPLAINING ANAKIN WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN EVEN HE IS:
Perhaps he's just trying to frighten Yoda in their duel, but I doubt Sidious would ever let Anakin grow that powerful until Sidious couldn't prevent his own passing. Plus he already took a very large and uncharacteristic chance that Anakin would fulfill his destiny and kill Lord Sidious when he revealed to him that he was the Sith Lord in what seems like casual conversation. I was thinking it would be more melodramatic, but surprises are good.
ANAKIN/VADER WANTING TO RULE THE GALAXY AND RIGHT EVERY WRONG:
in the movies, Anakin's frustration with the Jedi has not been THAT apparent except when he disobeyed orders to try and save his mom, or when he and Obi-Wan argued it out on the Gunship on Geonosis while chasing Dooku. It seems Anakin's cleary on the Jedi side, even if he is unorthodox. But to think that first by hiding Padme and raising their family somewhere quiet, and then to jump to making her co-ruler of the universe would somehow put her out of danger is a very large irrational leap. But it does play towards Vader's offering the same to Luke.
Pretty much nothing's that shocking about Episode 3 - it's darn great entertainment and if it's acted well, it will do 90% of what I hoped it will to bridge all the gaps (C-3PO's memory wipe is confirmed, btw) But that's about it. Star Wars goes out like your 18th birthday, as opposed to your 21st.
03-31-2005, 05:36 PM
Not for nothing though, we knew Lucas was not going to listen to the fans and give us exactly what we wanted. If he did then while our mouths were watering back in 1983 he would have produced episodes 7,8,9 and then followed up with the prequels. The amount of money he would have made off us crazed :crazed: :crazed: fans would have been more money than what he currently is making now. I still have faith that he will do the right thing and that ROTS will be more than what has been rumored, or leaked. As far as the comic book and novel versions, almost always something is left out or changed in order to make it a more friendly format. Perhaps he cut out some of the more adult stuff out of the comic book to make it more suitable for the kids. ?????
Either way ROTS is going to rock, can't wait till MAY 19th :)
Is Artoo gonna get his memory wiped ? I hope not. :)
I'm glad that Dooku is not Ani's dad.
04-01-2005, 09:37 AM
Just Threepio... apparently, they had the knowledge that old goldenrod was a motormouth... literally!
Yes ! I was really hoping Artoo would get to keep his data, I like it better that way. For so long we heard "oh, the droids will get their memories erased" to cover the silliness of having them witness what seems like EVERYTHING in the Saga :crazed: and it bothered me because Artoo seems like he can keep a secret.
Thanks JP !
04-01-2005, 11:53 AM
Spoiler alert in the spoiler section! ;)
When Bail asks to adopt Leia the droids are sent with her. Bail, Obi-Wan and Yoda all agree that her identity needs to be kept secret. When C-3PO hears that he and R2-D2 will be going with them he starts talking about how wonderful it will be and how he will enjoy telling her all about her mother, etc.
So Bail decides to have C-3PO's memory wiped, meanwhile R2-D2 gets spared. I always figured R2 knew more than he was letting on. ;)
04-06-2005, 10:27 PM
First off...the comic's "script" is taken from the final draft as shooting the movie started and we've all learned how Lucas loves to change thing as he films...
Also, the comic can't possibly convey the nuances and line readings in comic form or even give us real insight to the scenes...for example, the space battle takes up ONE page and spoiler-junkies already know it takes up at least 10 minutes of screen time. Other scenes are truncated or mia (see the book or spoiler threads for info).
As for Anakin's motavation to turn...yes, the comic basically distills it down to his need to save Padme and while there is more to it than that, it does boil down to that. His premonitions/dreams have always played a big part in his life (TPM) "I had a dream I was a Jedi and came back to free all the slaves..." (AOTC) The dreams of his mother's torture/distress and now in ROTS he dreams of Padme dying in childbirth. In reality he has always come up short on his dreams...didn't free the slaves...didn't save his mother and as he proclaims to his future wife ("I will even learn to stop people from dying!") he feels his powers should be absolute...add to that his need to possess...to covet..and he's ripe for the picking by someone like Palpitine who has his own agenda.
The fall into the lava...
Obi-wan is a JEDI first and foremost. Another scene that is barely touched on in the comic that will make his choice seem more agonizing and intense is witnessing the slaughter via hologram and witnessing Anakin kneeling befroe his new master. As Yoda says (in the book anyway)"...the boy who was your apprentice...gone is he, replaced by Vader..." I'm paraphrasing here, but Yoda basically says the same thing to Obi-Wan that he repeats to Luke all those years later.
Obi-Wan has just witnessed Anakin harm his wife in a fit of rage...he's just had the most intense duel he's ever faced. Like we've glimpsed in the trailer, Obi-Wan's anguish is quite evident when he cries "You were the chosen one!" His next words (even in the comic) say the rest perfectly "I love you...but I can't save you..." I'm hopeful this scene will play out perfectly in the movie...
The Sith have always fought their battle with the bald truth....remember Tyranus taunting Obi-wan with it on Geonosis. I think Sidious always knew Anakin had the potential to be more powerful...after all, he slayed HIS master Darth Plagius (sp?) and now he will have a powerful apprentice. It's an old cliche but pride goes before the fall and it takes two more episodes but Vader does prove more powerful (with love) in the end.
Anakin's lust for power....
He has always felt he was being held back. As a boy, he knew the Jedi took him on reluctantly to be trained. He always had a bit of attitude before the council (especially with Mace) and he even teases Padme with the idea of dictatorship. It's not such a leap to think Anakin feels like he has ultimate power and he wants his wife to rule at his side...blinded by pride and lust for power and again, he wants to possess what is around him. I think it plays out very well...
Yes, I agree that the comic isn't playing all these story ideas as effectively as the book does (or here's hoping) the movie will. If you pull out the last two film's comic adaptations, you'll see the same kind of shortcomings (although I must say I miss Jan Duursema"s pencils...Wheatly's style is...interesting, but his "hummel/cherub" style figures tend to take the bite out of the drama a bit.)
Just take the story ideas you're concerned about and remember how they connect with what's happened in the previous installments...I think it's gonna work out fine....
04-07-2005, 08:50 PM
I hope so.
Meanwhile I'm enjoying your analysis, JediBear.
Care to go on a little further and take on "how Luke is different from his father?"
I'd simply add that I see that Luke sees the choices his father made, and while tempted by the same reasons to want power (to protect Han and Leia), he realizes what those choices lead to. Still I'd enjoy your compare and contrast comments if you have any. Your ROTS / Prequel Trilogy comments were very insightful.
04-10-2005, 01:08 AM
How Luke is different from his father....
Anakin has always had a chip on his shoulder. Raised by a caring mother, taken from her with the promise of fulfilling his dreams, being told by the first strong male figure in his life (Qui-Gon) that he was special only to have that figure struck down before any of that promise could be met. He still gets to become a jedi, but he knows that the Jedi don't fully appreciate or acknowledge his gifts...he feels that he is being held back in his training and in his life. His new mentor cares for him and trys to train him in the ways of the jedi, but there is always an unspoken tension...does ObiWan really believe Anakin is the chosen one or is he just fulfilling the promise to his dying master? It's a question that must always nag at Anakin. Enter the next strong male figure in his life...Palpatine, who favors Anakin with constant support and praise, slowly building that ego, urging him on, "to trust his feelings", things the Jedi seem to discourage in the name of duty and honor. Finally, at the climax, when Anakin must make a fateful choice, it isn't that much of a leap to see how he would turn to the one person that has shown him unwavering support and shares one basic quality with him the Jedi don't....a secret life. Anakin has his secret marriage...his life of "feelings" and love. Palpatine has his secret identity as Sidious...with his lifelong plan to exact the Sith's revenge upon the Jedi. His encouragment to Anakin over the years has very little to do with support and more to do with his own selfish ends. Little does he know that it is "feeling", the very thing he always encouraged in Anakin, that will be his undoing all those years later with Vader's son Luke....
Luke was always protected in his youth...in a practical sense by the Lars and in mystical sense by Obi-Wan. His force abilities were never encouraged early in life...he was never aware of his unique heritage. In a way he was more balanced by having a "normal" life of growing up on a farm, learning duty from doing chores and experience basic love & support from Owen (in his gruff way) and Beru (with her basic kindness). Once Luke was swept up into the bigger galactic picture, he ended up falling in with a group that had purpose and drive, but in a less structured way than the Jedi of old were. Even in his brief time with Obi-Wan, he is encouraged to "trust his feelings", something unheard of with the Jedi of old. The Rebel Alliance promotes true teamwork, with beings of every persuasion being given the same opportunity to drive the rebellion forward. Yes, Luke had among his friends a cocky, self-serving starpilot with a heart of gold, two droids that illustrated the perfect blend of loyalty and duty and a princess that touched him and inspired him in ways he wouldn't understand until the end. But the main difference was Luke was always appreciative of being involved with the rebellion, he was appreciated for his gifts but not idolized by the rebellion for them. His acts were always based on selflessness...
Once he learned of his true heritage, he let his heart take him where he needed to go...it was the selfless act of saving his friends, not because he coveted or possessed them, but because it was the right thing to do.
Anakin wanted to desperatley save his wife because he DIDN'T WANT TO FAIL AGAIN. He loved her, but he couldn't learn to let go....remember the scene at Shmi's graveside...while Clegg spoke about her all Anakin could talk about was HIMSELF.
Now I will grant you not much of these ideas are covered in the comic that started this thread...but there you go.
I suggest reading Stover's absolutely stunning ROTS book...yes, it spoils the heck out of the movie, but it definately pulls all the motivations and feelings together in a way that makes it very clear...
Thanks for reading....
04-10-2005, 04:24 AM
Thanks for writing JediBear.
In some sense, do you think the Jedi doomed themselves by not nurturing Anakin differently, such as how they could have involved him in more teamwork? I'm not sure, but then I think they tried in so far as Jude Watson's Jedi Quest books related this.
04-10-2005, 05:03 PM
I think that's possible, but again, the Jedi had the downside of that third party (Palpatine) kinda undoing whatever good they were doing. Anakin always knew that most of the Jedi Council was not happy about him being trained at such a old age (for a child) especially Mace.
You're right about the Jedi Quest books kind of showing Anakin in more "teamwork" situations ("Approaching Storm" did this as well) but if you just consider the movies, Anakin & Obi-Wan always seemed to be apart during critical junctures of his life...with Palpatine pulling the strings to create those situations.
04-10-2005, 05:37 PM
I think the novel really hits on the issue of how the Jedi allowed their own down fall.
In the battle between Yoda and Palpatine the author explains that Yoda sees in the force that he cannot win the battle. This is because the Sith have evolved over the 1,000 years since their battle with the Jedi. The Sith had grown and changed while the Jedi had maintained a strict adherance to the old ways. He says that basically the Jedi were preparing to fight a battle that had been fought a thousand years ago.
I think that is part of why Yoda was so set against Luke and Leia being raised as Jedi. He knew that the "old ways" of the Jedi were no longer what was needed, that the Jedi must evolve to form a "New Jedi Order".
When the time was right he or Obi-Wan could train them in the ways of the force, without cutting them off from their families.
Look at the difference between NJO and the old school Jedi. Had Anakin been born and trained as a Jedi under the NJO he would have been allowed to stay with him mother til he was older, he would have been allowed to love and marry. He probably would not have turned to the Darkside.
Then there is the issue of Yoda taking Qui-Gon as a new master, which allows the Jedi to become more powerful than any Sith Lord ever...eternal life...in the force, as it is described in the novel.
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