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View Full Version : As far as wisdom...You're no Qui-Gon Jin



Kidhuman
04-07-2005, 10:51 AM
Yes, the line Anakin spewed to Obi-Wan in chapter 21 of the clone wars. I watched it last night and got to thinking, how long was Anakin with Qui-Gon? It couldnt have been that long and he couldnt have tought him that much because he never trained the boy. He had a few conversations with him but that was it. WHat is the timeline of Anakin and Qui-Gons relationship if anyone knows?

stillakid
04-07-2005, 12:16 PM
That line caught my eye (ear) as well. It makes little sense.

I don't know for sure, but we can project via events in TPM that they would have had a little time together on the journey from Tatooine to Coruscant. One might suggest that some teaching went on during that time, however Qui Gon states rather plainly on Coruscant that he "intends" to train the boy which implies that no such education has yet begun (like Luke's onboard training in ANH).

Once they reach Coruscant, Qui Gon dumps the kid off somewhere as he and Obi run off to do their Jedi business. The next time we see them together, they are heading back to Naboo. One might again argue that some training or words of wisdom may have occurred during this time on Coruscant, but again, Qui Gon made it quite clear that he "intended" to teach the boy which implies that he hasn't started yet.

Then we have the journey from Coruscant to Naboo. But theoretically, the same logic applies.

Of course once they reach Naboo, there isn't time for anything. I don't even recall Qui Gon saying anything profoundly of note to Anakin nor in his presence during all of this time.

El Chuxter
04-07-2005, 12:43 PM
Maybe he heard stories about Qui-Gon? :confused:

Kidhuman
04-07-2005, 12:46 PM
Maybe he heard stories about Qui-Gon? :confused:


Maybe he read the pop-up junior novelization.

stillakid
04-07-2005, 12:56 PM
Maybe he read the pop-up junior novelization.


Isn't that what Michael Jackson was showing his kids? :eek:

BanthaPoodoo
04-07-2005, 02:24 PM
Isn't that what Michael Jackson was showing his kids? :eek:

I think he was showing em the pop up junior jackson.... lol

Ji'dai
04-07-2005, 05:49 PM
I think Anakin was just trying to hurt Obi-Wan with that comment. I think Anakin knows how much Kenobi respects or reveres his former master. Obi-Wan may even feel some self doubt about his own abilities or the completeness of his training due to his abrupt ascent to Jedi Knighthood after Qui-Gon's death. So Anakin basically telling him he's not fit to clean Qui-Gon's boots would be quite a blow.

stillakid
04-07-2005, 06:21 PM
I think Anakin was just trying to hurt Obi-Wan with that comment. I think Anakin knows how much Kenobi respects or reveres his former master. Obi-Wan may even feel some self doubt about his own abilities or the completeness of his training due to his abrupt ascent to Jedi Knighthood after Qui-Gon's death. So Anakin basically telling him he's not fit to clean Qui-Gon's boots would be quite a blow.


Well, yeah. But the point of the question, at least from my perspective, was how would Anakin even know how smart Qui Gon was? They didn't spend enough time together for Anakin to form that kind of opinion.

El Chuxter
04-07-2005, 06:25 PM
I think Anakin was just trying to hurt Obi-Wan with that comment. I think Anakin knows how much Kenobi respects or reveres his former master. Obi-Wan may even feel some self doubt about his own abilities or the completeness of his training due to his abrupt ascent to Jedi Knighthood after Qui-Gon's death. So Anakin basically telling him he's not fit to clean Qui-Gon's boots would be quite a blow.

Good point. It would certainly explain why the next shot was Kit Fisto grinning and shouting, "Oooh, buuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrn!" :D

Kidhuman
04-07-2005, 06:27 PM
That is a good ppoint, but he would look like an idiot because Obi-Wan knew Qui-Gon didnt teach him jack since he was with those two the whole time basically.

Ji'dai
04-07-2005, 08:41 PM
I agree, Anakin wasn't around Qui-Gon long enough to get any real instruction, but I think that's irrelevant. I don't think it would even matter had Anakin not known Qui-Gon at all. (Which is the way it should've been anyway, according to the OT).

What is important is that Anakin is aware that Obi-Wan still idolizes his former Master. Anakin is lashing out at Obi-Wan in a rather childish manner by demeaning him in an unfair comparison to Qui-Gon. What better way to insult one's father figure than to remind him that he could never measure up to his own revered father or mentor?


That is a good ppoint, but he would look like an idiot because Obi-Wan knew Qui-Gon didnt teach him jack since he was with those two the whole time basically

Anakin does look like an idiot by saying that - well, actually more of an insolent jackass than idiot. I think Anakin's remark is meant to illustrate just how childish and impudent he can still be - even for all his courage and valor during the war, he is still not emotionally mature enough for Knighthood. And he happens to make that snide comment right outside the council chamber, just prior to his Knighting. He's an arrogant punk.

2-1B
04-08-2005, 12:10 AM
I also think he was just trying to sqeeze Obi's junk with that comment . . . it doesn't matter if Anakin experienced Qui's wisdom firsthand, he obviously heard enough about him from Obi so that was enough right there to know how to hurt Obers.

Remember that scene by the campfire when Obi said something about "when you travel the galaxy with Qui-Gon Jinn . . . "
well, you get the idea. :D

JediTricks
04-08-2005, 07:03 PM
This is another hyperspace travel issue that plagues ESB in a similar fashion. Because the way the films are paced and edited, we rarely get the sense that hyperspace travel takes more than a few hours, but it's entirely plausible that they spend days, even weeks at a time on these trips. ANH touches upon this by showing Luke training, but it doesn't do a great job of that either, we really don't know how long Luke has been learning from Obi-Wan by this time, the only suggestions are that everybody seems relaxed or even bored, suggesting the trip took several days to get to that point. Of course, TPM doesn't even have a scene showing Qui-Gon teaching Ani that much, merely a few seconds of dialogue on the landing platform.

I suspect Qui-Gon actually spent several days during the hyperspace journeys from Tatooine to Coruscant and from Coruscant to Naboo teaching Ani the early steps of learning the Jedi ways, as well as the downtime we didn't get to see on Coruscant (they probably spent a few days there, not likely the senate would be ready to go at a moment's notice).

2-1B
04-09-2005, 12:30 AM
Anakin did witness Qui-Gon's success in "freeing" him from Watto so I think that might add to Ani's esteem for Jinn . . . that and the way QGJ stood up to the Council to make Ani his padawan when everybody else was against it. ;)

Slicker
04-09-2005, 12:34 AM
I would have to think the whole Qui Gon/Ani training timeline may be like the Luke/Yoda one. By just watching the movie you can't really tell how long Luke is on Dagobah but it's kinda understood that he's there for quite some time and I've always thought that Qui Gon trained Ani for at least a short period of time.

2-1B
04-09-2005, 12:52 AM
What was the deal with that little animated training snippet (CW cartoon) between Ani and Qui ? Was it a dream sequence or a flashback to a scene not shown during TPM ? :confused:

stillakid
04-09-2005, 01:03 AM
I've always thought that Qui Gon trained Ani for at least a short period of time.

Maybe...I mean, we're all just guessing here, but we really have no reason to believe that Qui Gon taught Anakin anything beyond his subtle words on Tatooine prior to the Podrace. If there is any direct "evidence" to suggest that NO training went on during the course of TPM, it came at the end of the movie when Obi Wan tells lil' Ani that "you will become a Jedi," implying the at some point in the future training will commence.

dr_evazan22
04-09-2005, 01:22 AM
In the ROTS novel it says somewhere that Ani only knew QGJ for a few days before QGJ's death. But, IIRC, the comment Ani made in the CW toon was about Obi's wisdom, comparing Obi's to QGJ's. There were a couple of scenes where QGJ displays his wisdom to Ani - at the Podrace, on the landing platform - 2 I can think of off the top of my head.

stillakid
04-09-2005, 09:09 AM
In the ROTS novel it says somewhere that Ani only knew QGJ for a few days before QGJ's death. But, IIRC, the comment Ani made in the CW toon was about Obi's wisdom, comparing Obi's to QGJ's. There were a couple of scenes where QGJ displays his wisdom to Ani - at the Podrace, on the landing platform - 2 I can think of off the top of my head.




QUI-GON: Are you all set, Annie? (Anakin nods) Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel. Don't think. Trust your instincts. (he smiles) May the Force be with you.


QUI-GON: You won't be, Annie.... I'm not allowed to train you, so I want you to watch me and be mindful... always remember, your focus determines your reality. Stay close to me and you will be safe.


Just because Qui Gon remembers what was in his fortune cookie from the previous night doesn't equate to having "wisdom."

Besides, as you can see in that quote above, he says himself that he wasn't allowed to train him, so it's unlikely that any kind of training took place until after Qui's death.

JediTricks
04-09-2005, 04:50 PM
Anakin did witness Qui-Gon's success in "freeing" him from Watto so I think that might add to Ani's esteem for Jinn . . . that and the way QGJ stood up to the Council to make Ani his padawan when everybody else was against it. ;)
I dunno if I'd choose that one as an example, after all why isn't Anakin honked at QGJ for not freeing his mother too? The kid sure seems angry about her in later parts of Ep 1 and all through Ep 2.



I would have to think the whole Qui Gon/Ani training timeline may be like the Luke/Yoda one. By just watching the movie you can't really tell how long Luke is on Dagobah but it's kinda understood that he's there for quite some time and I've always thought that Qui Gon trained Ani for at least a short period of time.That's what I was getting at with the "hyperspace" comments, though at least ESB showed Yoda doing some teaching with Luke, TPM doesn't show anything there.