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View Full Version : It's really sad



Darth Ludicrous
01-08-2002, 07:48 AM
Remember the realscan image of Anakin they posted over at StarWars.com months and months ago?

Check it out here if you don't: http://www.starwars.com/collecting/feature/20010315/index_0.html

Somebody want to explain how this got mutilated into the ep2 figure we've seen? I mean, Hasbro pretty much only had to produce that exact scan (if you haven't seen realscan, they pretty much produce an exact mold in wax right from the computer file), add in 5 or 6 joints and a lightsabre and we'd all be pretty satisfied. What's their problem?

I'm very disappointed.

JEDIpartner
01-08-2002, 08:56 AM
Unfortunately, REALSCAN is a tool to assist sculptors with their designs. It doesn't do the design work FOR them. The sculptors are still required to create the casts by hand while using the REALSCANs as guides for the final products. I was actually kind of surprised when I read this on the web about 6 or so months back. I suppose I was labouring under the same idea as you, thinking that a computer preps the mould for the figure and the sculptor just goes in to add the articulation points and basically deconstructs it.

That is not the case and that is why you get the sculpts you are seeing.

Jargo
01-08-2002, 08:59 AM
To use the realscan technology and achieve a sculpt as good as the scan itself, you have to increase the size of the figures. We'd have ended up with a line of at least 6" figures. Any smaller and the detail is useless. The realscan technology is great for scanning fabric folds and hardware but not good on faces.

The other thing to consider is that because realscan has been used the way the fiigures are made has changed, Poses are more anatomicaly accurate. That's basically why the figures won't mesh with existing figures which are anatomicaly innaccurate.

LTBasker
01-08-2002, 09:05 AM
No actually I think Hasbro said that it was just going to be used for the heads and smaller accessories, which from the current pics look like crap so far. The sculptors would do like the bodies and such while the realscan did the heads and the blasters and lightsabers.

Darth Ludicrous
01-08-2002, 09:38 AM
That's not quite right. Gentle Giant actually uses a machine that takes the input from the scan (texture map) and creates a hard copy. The process is called stereo lithography and results in an actual model. Take a look at the busts from Toy fair last year to see the results. You can also see a demo here:

http://www.toymania.com/features/ggprocess.shtml

I actually saw a video of this process and it's really cool-- this big lathe looking device runs through this gray liquid/wax material and creates the sculpture. Also note Giant claims it can create these molds in any size...they talk about using this process for Burger King promo toys! This idea that realscan can't work for 4" figures is a canard.

Now, all we know for sure is that Gentle Giant provided the scans to Hasbro for reference---Do we know for sure whether Hasbro took full advantage fo the technology and produced hard copies directly from them, or did they just use the scans for reference for their sculptors? If that's the case it's criminal, because it's a total waste of the technology.

The bottom line is that Hasbro is not keeping pace with the other toy companies out there...companies like Jakks and Toy Biz are proving that it is not impossible to create a well done toy line for a major license, especially with realscan. We're not asking for the impossible! To drive home this point, check out that link above to see what Toy Biz did with realscan and then look at those ep 2 figs again.

Again, it's really sad.

DahrJin
01-08-2002, 10:06 AM
Indeed it is sad.:cry:

If hasbro insists on making McFarlane type mini-statues, the play ability of what are meant to be toys, will be lost.

Not only do the poses look strange, the sabers and blasters look odd when being held. If you got a chance to look at the images before they vanished, you know what I'm talking about.

And, what's with the hands not holding the sabers? It appears that OB-1 has a hole in his hand where a peg on his saber fits so he can hold it.

Is Anakins saber a throw back to the vintage toys? It looks to be retractable.

I sure hope these are just works in progress, because they need a butt load of work just to compare to the recent greatness of POTJ.:stupid:

Unit-01
01-08-2002, 05:12 PM
Kinda like that thing in JP3?

Ob1's hands are magnetic and so is his Lightsaber and such. Those holes are actually big magnets. Anakin has a retractable LS and looks to be a gun of some sort which has some string attached to it which can fly back to look like force pull.

JediCole
01-09-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Darth Ludicrous
...they talk about using this process for Burger King promo toys! This idea that realscan can't work for 4" figures is a canard.

The bottom line is that Hasbro is not keeping pace with the other toy companies out there...companies like Jakks and Toy Biz are proving that it is not impossible to create a well done toy line for a major license, especially with realscan. We're not asking for the impossible! To drive home this point, check out that link above to see what Toy Biz did with realscan and then look at those ep 2 figs again.

Again, it's really sad.

Many valid points about the possiblities of this technology have been made, however, the limitations are just as real. Though the RealScan process can reproduce its information in any scale, there is still inevetable drift in image integrety. Further factor in the limitations of the materials and you loose even more detail. Yes, those busts that were amoungst the first real images of the possiblities of this technology were stunning, but I suspect they were also LIFE SIZE. You don't need that much technology to produce accuracy in 1:1 scale! I think most people have misinterpreted the full scope of what is possible and ignored the built-in limitatons. Though Toy Biz and Jakks have utilized the technology to greater effect, they are also working in a larger scale. And frankly, though I have no use for wrestling figures, I was curious about the end result of the RealScan figures made by Jakks and though they look fairly accurate to the source material, they are by no means precise 1:6 to 1:12 scale replicas of the people scanned.

Finally, this is not an attack on Darth Ludicrous' views, which in some respects I agree with, I merely quoted his post as it covered more specific bases than others.

Darth Ludicrous
01-10-2002, 09:13 AM
Two things I'd add:

1) Even if the technology is "limited", maybe Hasbro should try and be a little innovative. Why do they always have to be behind the curve? If the technology isn't there yet, then push it forward!

2) If Hasbro can't get the job done in the 3.5" range, maybe it's time to get out of 1982 and produce 6 or 8" figures like everybody else. I'm sure that sentiment might cause even more collector ire, but I really feel Hasbro missed the boat by not making the switch to a larger scale with the Ep 1 figures. If they really want to satisfy the tastes of today's kids and satisfy collectors' taste for extreme details, it's really the only answer.

The only good argument for smaller figures was the ability to produce large playsets and vehicles, but Hasbro is moving away from those anyway. Retro-compatability with the POTF line would not have been as a big an issue had they made a clean break starting with Ep1.

DahrJin
01-10-2002, 10:21 AM
I don't think it's a question of technology. Look at McFarlen toys, and just about any other ACTION FIGURE maker, they blow Hasbros product away by far. Not only in detail, but in what you get for your $7.00 to $10.00. Me I'd pay an extra dollar or three to get better quality for my money.

The Spawn line, even though it's at a larger scale, is a prime example. Great detail and accessories aplenty. All for what we pay for a 3 3/4 inch plastic figure.

Hasbro needs to get out of the 70's and 80's and make a product that will continue on through the present.

Bottom line is Hasbro needs to play a little catch up or it will lose it's foothold in the market.

IMO- Real Scan sounded awesome when I first heard about it. The thought of exact duplicate of my favorite SW characters was exciting. Then Hasbro shows us what they plan on releasing(new AOTC figure pics we've all seen) and talk about dissapointment.:frus: If Real Scan can't be adapted into the 3 3/4" line, why bother to try and use it?

bigbarada
01-10-2002, 05:19 PM
I'm glad Hasbro has kept the scale of SWAF's to 3 3/4". There really is no reason to change it. It was a sudden switch in scale that helped to kill the Star Trek line. You alienate previous collectors and you flood the stores with more expensive product.

Besides McFarlane's toys warm pegs way too much to be considered the wave of the future.

Jargo
01-10-2002, 07:38 PM
My bad about the technology. I thought they'd used it for larger items too. But still, the technology isn't good at faces in the 3.75 inch scale. I still don't want to see the figures get larger though or I'd feel I'd been taken for a ride. I invested craploads of money in my collection and want to complete it when the line dies naturally after the license finishes up. They can go large scale then if they want to but I want to see out the episode three and entire saga on DVD releases in the smaller scale. Far as I'm concerned all they need to do is give us more accesories ansd stop with the silly legs akimbo poses. No-one ever stands like that even when they are in motion. So don't do it to the toys. And if you must make silly poses then give us interchangeable legs so we have a choice about how the figure ends up posed.

Silly silly Hasbro :rolleyes:

stillakid
01-10-2002, 07:53 PM
How dare anyone repremand Hasbro. It's THEIR product, THEIR toy line. They should be able to do ANYTHING they want to it without fan interference

...just like our buddy Lucas and the N'Sync thing and anything else he wants to do to HIS films. ;)

GNT
01-10-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
How dare anyone repremand Hasbro. It's THEIR product, THEIR toy line. They should be able to do ANYTHING they want to it without fan interference

But we are the ones who spend our cash on THEIR products,we keep them in business!

Jargo
01-10-2002, 08:03 PM
You make an interesting point. The difference is that the movies are not an interactive experience. You don't get to decide how the movies end or which characters get mashed up or fly the vehicles. The action is set in stone by the director and the creative master of the product. By your reckoning Rembrandt should be held to task for repainting some of his works of art to improve upon them.

The toys are an interactive experience and should therefore allow for interactivity or 'play'. I believe the cardbacks used to expound the part about extending the movie action using your own imagination. I may be wrong but I seem to recall seeing that on a cardback sometime as I ripped a figure from it.

mabudonicus
01-10-2002, 08:21 PM
Yeah, I must agree with Jango, it would be just NUTS to change the scale of the line at this point. The Epic Force series (although not a "clean-break" exactly) didn't go over too well in this part of the world, and they were pretty cool looking. And yeah, I will vouch for having read something to the effect of "allowing your imagination to expand the adventure" on the olden-times packages( I'm 28, so I remember it from several occaisions). Whoo!!

stillakid
01-11-2002, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by EMPEROR JARGO
By your reckoning Rembrandt should be held to task for repainting some of his works of art to improve upon them.



Hmm, just what I've been doing to Lucas for altering the Original Trilogy in the Special Editions and thus forcing the issue for the future of the films by setting up inconsistencies with the prequels. I seem to recall being taken to task for suggesting such a thing...

A product is a product, whether it is a toy, movie, box of cereal, or a box of nails. Just because a product is oftentimes confused with art, it still remains a product either way. Ahh, but it's art as well, you say. True, but this is where we have to decide to be hypocrites by acting with a double-standard or not. If we accept Lucas's decisions regarding what goes in a movie without question, we must also accept what Hasbro does with it's product. They're both products, they're both for sale, and they're both worthy of the same treatment: accept them both unequivocally or open them both up for critique. We can't have it both ways.

If you're wondering where this is coming from, I've been comparing the comments from this thread from the latest N'Sync thread and couldn't help but notice what I perceive as inconsistent attitudes toward criticism.

Darth Ludicrous
01-11-2002, 09:52 AM
Just to clarify- I agree they shouldn't change scales at this point, I just think the Episode 1 line was the time to do it. By 1999 it was obvious which way the industry was going (towards larger, much more detailed figures with fewer vehicles/playsets). Hasbro then could have produced OT figures in this new, larger scale during the down times between prequel movies. In retrospect, that probably would have been a wiser strategy.

Hasbro seems to miss the boat alot of the time.

DahrJin
01-11-2002, 10:17 AM
:stupid: I'm not suggesting Hasbro change the scale. I've been collecting 3 3/4" since the late 70's and it's what I know and love. I just think Hasbo took a giant leap forward with POTJ, proper scale of Chewie, Leia and Vader. Great detail work and nice paint jobs. Then now it looks like Hasbro's taken two gaint leaps backwards.

The proportions of the figures so far look to be way off. Padme looks to be as tall, if not taller than both Anakin and OB-1. The real scan machine must have made an error because Nat's chest looks no where close to that BIG. Anakins saber looks huge and out of place. Even if it's a throw back to the Vintage retractable sabers, why must he forever hold it, in his huge hand. Then there's the OB-1, what can I say. It's your generic OB-1. We haven't had a good OB-1 in years, not counting the old Ben from POTJ. I like that one.

You see, we can b**ch and moan about it all we want, that's what we do. Hasbro's not going to change them, and we will still buy them, and thanks to Hasbro, I wont be buying as many as usual.:D

I'm not a completist of any sort. I've never had to have EVERY figure or vehicle made. I collect what I like and so far, I only like the Jango Fett. So one out of the lot we have seen so far aint to bad for my wallet.:stupid: