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TheDarthVader
05-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Here we go again. Talk of episodes 7, 8, and 9 in a Revenge of the Sith review by Roger Ebert of the Sun Times (last paragraph if you wish to avoid a few minor spoilers).

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050515/REVIEWS/50503002

B.
TDV

stillakid
05-16-2005, 01:55 PM
Might as well post it....


Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
BY ROGER EBERT / May 16, 2005

George Lucas comes full circle in more ways than one in "Star Wars: Episode III -- Revenge of the Sith," which is the sixth -- and allegedly but not necessarily the last -- of the "Star Wars" movies. After "Episode II" got so bogged down in politics that it played like the Republic covered by C-Span, "Episode III" is a return to the classic space opera style that launched the series. Because the story leads up to where the original "Star Wars" began, we get to use the immemorial movie phrase, "This is where we came in."

That Anakin Skywalker abandoned the Jedi and went over to the dark side is known to all students of "Star Wars." That his twins Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia would redeem the family name is also known. What we discover in "Episode III" is how and why Anakin lost his way -- how a pleasant and brave young man was transformed into a dark, cloaked figure with a fearsome black metal face. As Yoda sadly puts it in his inimitable word order: "The boy who dreamed, gone he is, consumed by Darth Vader."

As "Episode III" opens, Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and his friend Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor) are piloting fighter craft, staging a daring two-man raid to rescue Chancellor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid). He has been captured by the rebel Gen. Grievous (whose voice, by Matthew Woods, sounds curiously wheezy considering the general seems to use replacement parts). In the spirit of all the "Star Wars" movies, this rescue sequence flies in the face of logic, since the two pilots are able to board Grievous' command ship and proceed without much trouble to the ship's observation tower, where the chancellor is being held. There is a close call in an elevator shaft, but where are the guards and the security systems? And why, for that matter, does a deep space cruiser need an observation tower, when every porthole opens on to the universe? But never mind.

Back within the sphere of the Jedi Council, Anakin finds that despite his heroism, he will not yet be named a Jedi Master. The council distrusts Palpatine and wants Anakin to spy on him; Palpatine wants Anakin to spy on the council. Who to choose? McDiarmid has the most complex role in the movie as he plays on Anakin's wounded ego. Anakin is tempted to go over to what is not yet clearly the dark side; in a movie not distinguished for its dialogue, Palpatine is insidiously snaky in his persuasiveness.

The way Anakin approaches his choice, however, has a certain poignancy. Anakin has a rendezvous with Padme (Natalie Portman); they were secretly married in the previous film, and now she reveals she is pregnant. His reaction is that of a nice kid in a teenage comedy, trying to seem pleased while wondering how this will affect the other neat stuff he gets to do. To say that George Lucas cannot write a love scene is an understatement; greeting cards have expressed more passion.

The dialogue throughout the movie is once again its weakest point: The characters talk in what sounds like Basic English, without color, wit or verbal delight, as if they were channeling Berlitz. The exceptions are Palpatine and of course Yoda, whose speech (voiced by Frank Oz) reminds me of Wolcott Gibbs' famous line about the early style of Time magazine: "Backward ran sentences until reeled the mind."

In many cases the actors are being filmed in front of blue screens, with effects to be added later, and sometimes their readings are so flat, they don't seem to believe they're really in the middle of amazing events. How can you stand in front of exploding star fleets and sound as if you're talking on a cell phone at Starbucks?

"He's worried about you," Anakin is told at one point. "You've been under a lot of stress." Sometimes the emphasis in sentences is misplaced. During the elevator adventure in the opening rescue, we hear "Did I miss something?" when it should be "Did I miss something?"

The dialogue is not the point, however; Lucas' characters engage in sturdy oratorical pronunciamentos and then leap into adventure. "Episode III" has more action per square minute, I'd guess, than any of the previous five movies, and it is spectacular. The special effects are more sophisticated than in the earlier movies, of course, but not necessarily more effective.

The dogfight between fighters in the original "Star Wars" and the dogfight that opens this one differ in their complexity (many more ships this time, more planes of action, more detailed backgrounds) but not in their excitement. And although Lucas has his characters attend a futuristic opera that looks like a cross between Cirque de Soleil and an ultrasound scan of an unborn baby, if you regard the opera hall simply as a place, it's not as engaging as the saloon on Tatooine in the first movie.

The lesson, I think, is that special effects should be judged not by their complexity but by the degree that they stimulate the imagination, and "Episode III" is distinguished not by how well the effects are done, but by how amazingly they are imagined. A climactic duel on a blazing volcanic planet is as impressive, in its line, as anything in "Lord of the Rings." And Yoda, who began life as a Muppet but is now completely animated (like about 70 percent of what we see onscreen), was to begin with and still is the most lifelike of the non-humanoid "Star Wars" characters.

A word, however, about the duels fought with lightsabers. When they flashed into life with a mighty whizzing thunk in the first "Star Wars" and whooshed through their deadly parabolas, that was exciting. But the thrill is gone.

The duelists are so well-matched that saber fights go on forever before anyone is wounded, and I am still not sure how the sabers seem able to shield their bearers from attack. When it comes to great movie sword fights, Liam Neeson and Tim Roth took home the gold medal in "Rob Roy" (1995), and the lightsaber battles in "Episode III" are more like isometrics.

These are all, however, more observations than criticisms. George Lucas has achieved what few artists do; he has created and populated a world of his own. His "Star Wars" movies are among the most influential, both technically and commercially, ever made. And they are fun. If he got bogged down in solemnity and theory in "Episode II: Attack of the Clones," the Force is in a jollier mood this time, and "Revenge of the Sith" is a great entertainment.

Note: I said this is not necessarily the last of the "Star Wars" movies. Although Lucas has absolutely said he is finished with the series, it is inconceivable to me that 20th Century-Fox will willingly abandon the franchise, especially as Lucas has hinted that parts VII, VIII and IX exist at least in his mind. There will be enormous pressure for them to be made, if not by him, then by his deputies.

Yes, there have been substantiated "rumors" from set that VII, VIII, and IX will be done. Obviously, things can change at any time just as quickly as Anakin's moods.

hango fett
05-16-2005, 02:03 PM
i belived that these would happen a long time ago. it just makes no sense that he says he has parts in his mind and then just leave us hanging.
HF

stillakid
05-16-2005, 02:12 PM
i belived that these would happen a long time ago. it just makes no sense that he says he has parts in his mind and then just leave us hanging.
HF


Sure it does. Look, the guy is what, 62, 65 years old? He's a billionaire. He takes heat nearly everytime one of these movies comes out. He doesn't need the money. Doesn't need the glory. Doesn't really, apparently, feel the need to win approval or awards or anything at all. He doesn't have to do anything ever again. He can easily have some ideas about 7-9 but there is nothing to compel him to actually do them. At 3 years each, he'd easily be into his 70s by the time they were done, if he makes it that long.

sith_killer_99
05-16-2005, 09:07 PM
Sure it does. Look, the guy is what, 62, 65 years old? He's a billionaire. He takes heat nearly everytime one of these movies comes out. He doesn't need the money. Doesn't need the glory. Doesn't really, apparently, feel the need to win approval or awards or anything at all. He doesn't have to do anything ever again. He can easily have some ideas about 7-9 but there is nothing to compel him to actually do them. At 3 years each, he'd easily be into his 70s by the time they were done, if he makes it that long.

I agree, considering the live action television series is still on the table, not to mention the animated series, Lucas will have his hands full for a little while at least, until he hands the reigns over.

I think George sees this as the best of both worlds. He gets to walk away and do what he wants on other projects and fans get to see Star Wars live on.

I am fairly certain that the upcoming television shows are proof enough that George has no plans on 7,8 and 9.

Maybe, if we are really, really lucky we can dare to dream of a spin off film years down the line.

TheDarthVader
05-17-2005, 01:00 PM
I agree. I don't feel like these will ever be made, but I like to hope that one day something might happen. Maybe George will write the basic outlines, and some of his friends can make the films (ie Peter Jackson).

B.
TDV

stillakid
05-17-2005, 02:40 PM
By my previous post, I never intended to suggest that it wouldn't ever happen with George at the helm. I merely pointed out some of the reasons why he might choose to opt out completely.

On the contrary, I do believe that there is a very good chance that audiences will eventually see VII, VII, and IX. By what process, who knows. We can only hope that he'll take the high road this time and hire competent screenwriters to form a solid foundation that follows in the established Star Wars context, unlike what has happened with the Prequels. We can also hope that he doesn't cherry pick "pop" directors like Peter Jackson just to placate legions of Orc worshipping fanboys. What Star Wars needs, especially in a Post-quel, is a director up to the task of developing character and building real drama. Not someone whose primary interest is in throwing spectacle on screen at the expense of the story.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-17-2005, 06:27 PM
I believe the term for a movie that takes place after a currently existing movie is called a sequel, and not, as you said, a "post-quel." ;)

Anywho, nothing in that article suggests that 7, 8, and 9 will ever be made. Ebert must not believe the numerous announcements that have taken place in the last year that explicitly state that ROTS will be the last SW movie ever. Though he makes a reference to them, he thinks that Fox will milk it for all it's worth. But Lucas already locked it up so there can never be any more, ever. And I'm willing to bet that Fox will indeed milk it for all it's worth, in the form of a TV show.

I really hope that we never see another theatrical SW movie. There would be no point. As it stands now, the SW movies are about Anakin Skywalker, and he died in ROTJ. I highly doubt that we'll see "The Posthumous Adventures of Anakin."

Dark Helmet
05-17-2005, 06:46 PM
i belived that these would happen a long time ago. it just makes no sense that he says he has parts in his mind and then just leave us hanging.
HF

I believe that lucasfilm will make 7-9 simply because we as FANS deserve it!!!!! Whether GL will exec produce with as much hands on work as right now is still in question. He has said that Lucasfilm must grow w/o him. So I can see him telling the story and having others produce and direct as he commands on high.

sith_killer_99
05-17-2005, 07:58 PM
He has said that Lucasfilm must grow w/o him. So I can see him telling the story and having others produce and direct as he commands on high.

Lucasfilm, yes, Star Wars...no. Lucas is VERY protective of the Star Wars story. I was shocked to hear he was going to allow someone to take over the Star Wars television series, after the first season of course. I just don't see another Star Wars film in the future so long as Lucas is alive. Unless perhaps he allows someone to produce a side story film in the Star Wars Universe, but that would be a far cry from 7, 8 and 9.

Dark Helmet
05-17-2005, 08:07 PM
Lucasfilm, yes, Star Wars...no. Lucas is VERY protective of the Star Wars story. I was shocked to hear he was going to allow someone to take over the Star Wars television series, after the first season of course. I just don't see another Star Wars film in the future so long as Lucas is alive. Unless perhaps he allows someone to produce a side story film in the Star Wars Universe, but that would be a far cry from 7, 8 and 9.

I know he is protective of SW and owns all rights to anything SW but if he dictated a storyline and approved an eventual script, I can see the films happening. He owns LF so he retain complete autonomy of the film and be able to approve/disapprove of the director, story, actor etc. I feel he will do that but let others under his direction and authority move on with 7-9. He will always be SW and the sole owner and as they say, the buck stops here. Here being GL. I am saying he would more than just an "Advisor" on any future films but the master approver thats all.:)

stillakid
05-17-2005, 08:20 PM
I believe the term for a movie that takes place after a currently existing movie is called a sequel, and not, as you said, a "post-quel." ;)
Yeah, I know. But Post-quel seems more descriptive somehow. :)


Anywho, nothing in that article suggests that 7, 8, and 9 will ever be made. Ebert must not believe the numerous announcements that have taken place in the last year that explicitly state that ROTS will be the last SW movie ever.
In the entertainment industry, there's often more to reality than meets the eye...or the press. Insiders frequently know a little more than the general public...and as an "insider," I'll leave it at that. ;)

TCC-1972
05-19-2005, 12:11 AM
Star Wars is about Anakin Skywalker! About the prophecy. The one who brings balance to the force. You really DON'T want them to keep it going any further. Look what happened to Star Trek. It just kept going & going & going & going. Now nobody cares about Star Trek anymore. Everybody is sick of it! Don't let that happen to Star Wars!

It's over! Move on!

stillakid
05-19-2005, 09:26 AM
Star Wars is about Anakin Skywalker! About the prophecy. The one who brings balance to the force. You really DON'T want them to keep it going any further. Look what happened to Star Trek. It just kept going & going & going & going. Now nobody cares about Star Trek anymore. Everybody is sick of it! Don't let that happen to Star Wars!

It's over! Move on!

Well, the original trilogy and the original intention for the saga didn't center around the fall of Anakin Skywalker. Maybe the majority of the Prequels waste time on this, but the actual focus of the saga is and should be the downfall and resurrection of the Republic. The Anakin storyline is just one element of that. Therefore a VII, VIII, and IX would be perfectly acceptable if done correctly. But we can't trust Lucas to do that, given that he's now prone to "riffing" a bunch of useless crap all over screen.

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 10:15 AM
I wanted to be sick yesterday. One of the local radio stations chose to interview (surprise!) the biggest idiot in the world about her Star Wars infatuation. She's such a big fan that she already knows for a fact that they are definately making Episodes VII,VIII, and IX! And whats more, they're based on the "Thrawn Trilogy"! I wish I was as cool as her to be privey to such information! :rolleyes:

DarthBrandon
05-19-2005, 11:17 AM
By my previous post, I never intended to suggest that it wouldn't ever happen with George at the helm. I merely pointed out some of the reasons why he might choose to opt out completely.

On the contrary, I do believe that there is a very good chance that audiences will eventually see VII, VII, and IX. By what process, who knows. We can only hope that he'll take the high road this time and hire competent screenwriters to form a solid foundation that follows in the established Star Wars context, unlike what has happened with the Prequels. We can also hope that he doesn't cherry pick "pop" directors like Peter Jackson just to placate legions of Orc worshipping fanboys. What Star Wars needs, especially in a Post-quel, is a director up to the task of developing character and building real drama. Not someone whose primary interest is in throwing spectacle on screen at the expense of the story.

I'm not sure what movies from the O.T. that you are referring to stillakid, which ones are established Star Wars Content, clearly you seem to know so much about it, more than George himself, so enlighten us with your wisdom. The ones I saw when I was a kid in 77 were full of cheesy dialogue & eye candy (special effects just in case you think I'm referring to Leia, which was also eye candy at the time) plus they were just a good 2 to 2 1/2 hours of entertainment. I never went to a Star Wars movie expecting to see an academy award performance, nor do I continuously bash the creator of said movies when-ever I get the chance. These movies got the same type of reviews back then by movie critics, who never could get the point of Sci-Fi entertainment, they are an escape from everyday reality and thatís it. Sure some of us didnít need to know the origin of Boba Fett or C-3PO, & a few other things for that matter & we get that you donít like the P.T. compared to the pedestal O.T. which frankly I could never understand. As I watch these movies I find flaws in all of them if I look hard enough & pick at them, bad dialogue, flow, matt lines, bad acting, bad effects, the whole nine yards. I guess George really Fíd up by creating S.W. in the first place, his whole story stinks & Iím going to enjoy every stinking minute of it. :D I find that some take this way too seriously & shouldnít , hint hint ;) & I grow tired of it :bored: , S.W. is just a story (Georges BTW) with some cool toys. So my question is what is established S.W. content ? :D

stillakid
05-19-2005, 12:40 PM
So my question is what is established S.W. content ? :D
Nice speech, but you're not seriously asking that question, are you? I only ask because you seem like an intelligent guy. If you are serious, I'd suggest you look up the words "establish" and "subsequent" and then get back to me.


But before I go, I'll leave you with this to ponder. If I began this paragraph with an English Language word, doesn't it follow that the words following it should also be English? So why don't you tell me, what established Star Wars content in the Star Wars saga?

VaderhitsJarjar
05-19-2005, 06:10 PM
It started when we adults decided to compare Episodes I, II, III with our vast endless imaginations.

Nothing will ever live up to what we imagine should happen in the prequals.
Why else would adults remarry with the fantasy that their new life will be better than the olde one - forgetting that the olde life still lives on.

As children we watched with awe as Luke blasted tie-fighters, and saved the day. Later in the backyard mud Luke would blast tie-fighters, and kiss his um err sister while swinging on yarn across a newly dug ditch.

I have yet to hear a child leave the theater asking " Mom why was the dialogue so flat?" What I have seen are children begging their mother for a light saber and the new vader voice changer.

Kinda reminds me of when I was a kid and I'd look wide-eyed at the mile high aisle of starwars joy and beg mom for another figure.

JediTricks
05-20-2005, 03:47 AM
Lucas has changed his story many times, but every so often he makes it clear that he really is just making this up as he goes along, to paraphrase a certain Lucas character. I think Lucas is not interested right now in doing a sequel trilogy, and has said that digital actors are out of the question, so I think he's putting the eps 7-9 thing to bed permanently since it doesn't fit with the rough outline he's had in his head.

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 07:39 AM
I think Lucas is not interested right now in doing a sequel trilogy, and has said that digital actors are out of the question, so I think he's putting the eps 7-9 thing to bed permanently since it doesn't fit with the rough outline he's had in his head.

I agree that digital actors are definitely out of the question. If 7-9 are out of GL's head then like I posted before, he could just sign off on a script and oversee the production. But it could spin off into many different directions (7-9) - new worlds, new characters, new plots, - Republic villians etc.