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View Full Version : So... now that you've seen it, what did you think?????



darthvyn
05-19-2005, 02:47 AM
just got out of the midnight showing, and i have to say that was the best star wars movie ever. my fiance cried three times. i really felt the emotion in this one as well. i thought the acting was the best of the three prequels, and the way palpatine goaded anakin along his path to the dark side was completely plausible to me.

James Boba Fettfield
05-19-2005, 03:12 AM
During the funeral I was thinking, "Show Boss Nass, show Boss Nass, do it . . . come on . . . there he is!"

Best ever? Oh, hmm, I really liked it, though a lot of the Anakin/Padme dialogue made me shake my head. I did clench my fist in celebration at the slaying of the Younglings. If only they had been wearing those silly helmets at the moment, too. Sam Jackson's performance kept taking me out of the movie, too. Holy zombie Jesus, was I glad to see him get taken out the way he did.

That aside, I was happy and it was all I had expected. No big surprises since I have been rolling in the spoilers for a long while. Definitely the best of the three prequels (though that may not be saying much to some people, they know who they are), but I cannot call it the best SW film. That's still 4 and 5 (it switches) for me, though I pretty much enjoy all the films and have no problems watching any of them.

darko666
05-19-2005, 03:16 AM
i also just got back from the midnight showing. i have to say that i am speechless. there was so much to take in. but i will say that i was very pleased with the way this movie played out. it was def. the most emotional out of the 3, but that was a given. it is the ESB of the prequel trilogy. i was also glad to see that the dialouge was better in this than the other 2 films. it wasn't great, but it has improved. the part of the movie where the clone troopers are given order 66 and attack the jedi, is amazing and when they show Yoda durning the scene, you can just feel the pain he feels. quite simply my fav. scene in the movie.

i'm seeing the movie another 3 times later on today, so i will have more to express after fully taking it all in. it was good to see Vader again and hear his voice.

JetsAndHeels
05-19-2005, 03:20 AM
I loved this movie. So much to absorb on the first viewing, but still quite the experience. I did not sit back once during the film, for I was so engulfed in what I was seeing before me.
Going to go back and watch it again later today.....perhaps will catch some things I missed. Overall very happy with this movie.

RussUAE
05-19-2005, 03:25 AM
So so good.

Loved it. Thought it might be more emotional than it was. I found the scnes with Anakin's mother mroe moving in Episodes I and II. But I sure got goosebumps throughout the movie, amazing stuff. Will be back to see it again soon.

Wasn't so keen on Grievous though - he didn't seem to add anything to the movie at all.

CanadianPharaoh
05-19-2005, 03:30 AM
Awesome. Quite simply, it was amazing.

The movie had a much faster pace than AOTC (fell asleep twice trying to watch that one this week), and I found it to be more artsy than the other tow. Great panning shots, etc.

I love the Frankenstein homage at the end with Vader. I was caught off guard when he let out that wail, but I guess I just wasn't expecting the number one bad dude of all-time to do that. I love it, though.

And the twin suns scene on Tatooine? Great stuff.

I'm going again tomorrow!

The 'Xir
05-19-2005, 03:31 AM
Just got out myself....Hhhmmph. Where to start. :neutral:

This is a tough one to swallow...and I think I'm gonna need a couple more viewings! Initial reaction: Looked amazing! However, I had no emotional reactions what-so-ever. Too much CG was very distracting, The scenes passed faster than gas from a short order cook(also very distracting and the reason why I think I felt no emotional responses), and story..the story...

I'm gonna need a couple more viewings.

:dis:

darko666
05-19-2005, 03:31 AM
Wasn't so keen on Grievous though - he didn't seem to add anything to the movie at all.

thats Lucas's trademark with new villians. i enjoyed the scenes with him, but there was something missing. ah, but thats what the deleted scenes are for.

Mace Windex
05-19-2005, 03:38 AM
AWESOME!
Excellent movie! It brought back the magic. Loved the humor in the beginning and the tragedy at the end. Most of the complaints I have seem to be over cut scenes. Where was Yoda arriving on Degobah? How about actually HEARING qui-gon? talking to Yoda? Where was Shak TI? The making of book shows her being killed by Grevious in one scene and by ANikin in another. Yet, she was never shown. How about Luminara?

And why did ANi continue to turn after attacking MAce when Palp tells him right there that HE does NOT know the power to keep people from dying? Shouldn't that have been enough to stop him?wasn't R2's memory wiped? Why does force lightning deform the emperor? Didn't bother ANi or Luke. WHat gives? How come Obi "doesn't seem to remember R2" in EP IV? Why is Obi so old after only 19 years? How can Leia remember her mother? She died when I was very young? Uh, yeah..a BABY!
I think Hayden did a great job.

RussUAE
05-19-2005, 03:40 AM
Oh, and for fighting style I don't think it topped The Phantom Menace. All the sabre stuff was almost too fast.

But I liked the fact there was relationship between the characters, so that they could talk to each other, that is what makes it better, like it the OT.

tagmac
05-19-2005, 03:53 AM
Overall, a great movie. Started out a little silly, but once it got darker, the whole movie changed. While I wasn't spoiler-free this time, I was actually shocked at how easily Palpy dispatched the first two Jedi, then Kit Fisto. Hated to see Mace get it, but it was obvious that was gonna happen. Not better than ESB, but definitely ranks up there. And I love it that only Threepio got his memory wiped - I always figured R2 always knew far more than was let on.

My biggest disappointments also involved the cut scenes. In addition to those previously mentioned, I thought for sure we'd see Qui-Gon as a ghost, and I thought the Kashyyk battle was too quick. Should have been longer, and we should have gotten to see Chewie and Tarfful in action, maybe killing a couple clones before Yoda left the planet. All those Jedi action figures, and yet we never see Luminara, Shaak Ti, or Barris Offee. And my biggest complaint, where was Mon Mothma and the whole group that would eventually form the rebellion (the 2000-something)? After the big deal was made about casting her part, I don't even remember seeing her in the background. Hopefully this is all stuff that was cut for time but will be resurrected on the DVD....either that, or could the tv series actually be about the birth of the rebellion.....only time will tell.

On a side note, I can see now why Jett Lucas got a figure - his small part didn't feel forced, but seemed justified, as well as being a cool scene. The midichlorians and Anakin's birth were also justified (thankfully the Dooku as his father rumor was garbage). Also loved the mention of Quinlan Vos - too bad we didn't get a scene with him.

trandoshan666
05-19-2005, 03:59 AM
I found the scene where Anakin betrays Mace and turns to the dark side to be particularly gut-wrenching. It just really hit me.
On the whole, I really loved the movie. With that said, I do think some back story with Dooku and Grievous was desparately needed, particularly for those who didn't watch Clone Wars.
Wow. What an intense piece of work. I can't wait to see it again.

QLD
05-19-2005, 03:59 AM
Well, just got back a little while ago. Here are my random thoughts.

Spoilers ahead for those who care.....

Overall, I liked the movie. I want to see it again so I can better judge it however. I tend to get caught up in the Star Wars hype the first time I see the prequels.

Dooku fighting was kind of ridiculous. The CGI on that wasn't very good. I didn't expect to see Lee doing backflips or anything, but, the effects could have been better. They did little to explain Palpatine's betrayal of Dooku, other than show the "oh **** my heads about to get cut off" look on his face.

The opening space battle was amazingly done.

Having never seen the Clone Wars cartoons, I found General Grievous kind of lame honestly. "I was trained by Dooku." To do what, spin your lightsabers in circles and get your *** kicked?

The CGI on the animals and riding of them was much better this time around.

Mace Windu was better this movie, and his confrontation with Palpatine was pretty good. Palpatine mowed through Kit Fisto and the others like they were butter. I know Palpatine is a bad ***, but christ, can't they at least get a block in?

Anakin's dialogue, in general, was better this film. EXCEPT when he was talking to Padme. THat was still horrifyingly awful. The scenes with Palpy and Anakin were very well done, and the buildup to it was pretty good, considering the short amount of time Lucas left himself to do so.

The voilence that the media has been hyping up, was not nearly as bad as they would have you think.

Ki-Adi Mundi went out like a punk, as did Ayala Secura.

Yoda's fighting was much improved this time to me as well. More controlled looking. Palpatine fighting was kind of iffy. When it was actually him doing the work, it looked somewhat out of place from what the CGI and stand-in Palpy did. But overall I enjoyed their confrontation.

I loved the final duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

The ending sequence with Vader finding out Padme was dead was pretty lame. That scene was so canned, and it's been done a million times before. NOOOOoooOOOOOOoooo......*sigh*

Jimmy Smits was excellent in his parts of the movie. I wish he had had more to do honestly.

The scene with Owen and Beru was a little.....clunky.

I know I pointed out more of the bad, than good, because it's easier. But as of right now, I did enjoy the film. But it's still not on the same level as the Original Trilogy.

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-19-2005, 04:05 AM
well, thanks to a beautiful young lady who gave us press screening tickets to the 7:30 pm show, we saw it then AND at 12:01 am and both times i LOVED IT. Teh acting was much better than teh rest of the PT and the fight/action scenes were superb. the overall emotional tone the film took on me was intense and i found myself on the verge of tears during both showings.

The force was strong in this one; i loved it. :D

tagmac
05-19-2005, 04:19 AM
If any episode of the saga is due for a 4-hour Special Edition, LOTR-style DVD release, this is the one. Too many important scenes cut out or cut short, that need to be released. 8 meaningless deleted scenes won't cut it this time around (no pun intended).

bobafrett
05-19-2005, 04:22 AM
I saw it, but found it a little hard to get emotionally attached to the characters. I did tear up a little at the end of the Anakin/Vader vs Obi Wan battle, because Ewan really did an awesome job. I also enjoyed some of the scenes with Palpatine slowly screwing with Anakins head and his emotions. Oh, and I loved seeing how Palpatine gets his face deformed.

Some of my gripes, you would think that after the window broke in Palpatines office, that everything would be swirling around, but nothing seems to get disturbed, including Anakins long locks. Most of the romantic dialogue, lame, but a little better than AOTC. The kisses were short pecks, almost missing the mark completely. My brain is about to shut down, and I'm sure I will warm up to this after I see it a few more times.

Well, I have to be at another news broadcast in about an hour. I will get my sleep in after that. Goodnight!

scruffziller
05-19-2005, 04:23 AM
Having never seen the Clone Wars cartoons, I found General Grievous kind of lame honestly. "I was trained by Dooku." To do what, spin your lightsabers in circles and get your *** kicked?


Yea what was the deal with Grievous??? Picking up his skirt and running away like a little girl!!!!:D ...per my buds that went to see it with me. Grievous in the CLONE WARS kicked all form of Jedi hiney all over the galaxy!!! You need to see them QLD it will be a breath of fresh air.



Anakin's dialogue, in general, was better this film. EXCEPT when he was talking to Padme. That was still horrifyingly awful. The scenes with Palpy and Anakin were very well done, and the buildup to it was pretty good, considering the short amount of time Lucas left himself to do so.

I thought Hayden's performance in dialougue, even with Padme , was improved from EPS 2. His dialougue with Palpy all that time was mezmerizing. Well done Ian!!!! Also, the make up on Palpy seemed rather good than the way it was going to look. But when Hayden started getting intensly hateful just before he starts to choke Padme, the performance was so unbelievably great, I wished he had gotten there sooner.



The ending sequence with Vader finding out Padme was dead was pretty lame. That scene was so canned, and it's been done a million times before. NOOOOoooOOOOOOoooo......*sigh*
As the room started to crush and crumble, I was hoping his blurt out would have been more explosive with a force wave. That is how Peter Jackson would have done it.:D

matthewilw
05-19-2005, 04:27 AM
Just got back, and overall, I really enjoyed it.

I was disappointed in how short the wookie battle was (not even going to try to spell the name of the planet.) I really wanted to see more of those new droid flying gunship-dealies.

After seeing the new jedi starfighters in the movie, I must say, that I hate them more than I did 4 hours ago. I really loved the old ones, so seeing the blue/white version was cool, even though it was very brief. I seriously hate the new hyper space rings for the jsf. What was wrong with the old 2 engine ones?

I loved all the lightsaber duels. No matter how short some of them were.

The scene with vader/tarkin/emperor/death star was one of my favorites. Very ESB-ish.

I've never seen the clone wars cartoon, so it would have been nice for them to explain why Grievous was coughing, or simply left it out.

I was glad Yoda realized that "bringing balance to the force" might not be something they really wanted.

I was amazed at how quickly padme came up with a name for a child she didn't know she had.

Simply put, it is a good movie. And I'm sure I'll find much more small stuff in it tomorrow when I take the g/f ;)

darthverbo
05-19-2005, 04:27 AM
WOW!!!!!!!! I felt like I was 8 years old again and it is 1977. I seriously got the feeling of excitement. He has done it! I really am blown away. George Lucas finally captured the magic I was longing for. I even really really enjoyed Episodes 1 and 2. This one is going to be the highest grossing film ever!!!! I took my son out to see it tonight and there was a line clear around the huge cineaplex. There were people dressed up and lightsabers glowing. I said to him "look around...you will never see this again in your lifetime. A love for something that has touched so many peoples lives.
Star Wars to me is like baseball in Field of Dreams. It reminds of us of all the was good and can be again. For me, tonight I was 8 years old again. How fun is that!!!!!!!! :D

2-1B
05-19-2005, 04:31 AM
Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen are the kings of Star Wars. Well done on both their parts.

Great supporting work from the others, including Nat Portman who was much, much better than some of the bad press I read on her. A very fast paced movie and I was glad whenever it slowed down to let Ani and Padme have their scenes, Ani with Palps in the Box, and Obi with Ani outside of the airbus.

I loved the fact that C-3PO was barely in it because he's sucked since 1977. I'm also glad that Artoo did not get his dome erased.

I didn't much care for the whole "Leia was held by Obi-Wan at Padme's deathbed for a minute longer than Luke so that's why she has images and feelings of her" BUT I'll warm to it eventually because it's worth the payoff of Padme's death.

Grievous sucked. Horrible character.

bobafrett
05-19-2005, 04:33 AM
I did see the Millenium Falcon land early in the movie, which I was proud of, usually I miss the small details like that.

yoda83
05-19-2005, 04:38 AM
Just got back, after being there since 6 PM my time, and I have to be back by 10AM for more charity work. This is just first impressions as I will sleep on this and probably watch it again tomorrow

Things I liked:

-Fight scene between Yoda and Palpatine
-Ending fight/discussion between Anakin and Obi Wan
-The fact that the true comedy was left to R2-D2, and had Obi-Wan and Anakin making wisecracks
-It showed a little more detail than the book about Order 66 and the death of key Jedi
-Most of the other action was well planned and paced
-Nod to extended universe characters like Quinlan Vos

Things I did not like
-Natalie Portman's acting for the first half of the movie (the second half was much better)
-Samuel Jackson, until the very end of him, was very 2D
-No friggin QUI-GON JINN. His talking to Yoda at the end was supposed to explain all this Jedi mumbo jumbo about spirits surviving past death, and without it, it seemed to have been added at the very last minute as an afterthought
-Some of the fight scenes seemed very choppy. One minute Anakin and Obi Wan are going at it, the next, Anakin is without his saber, and Obi Wan is wailing on him
-I have to agree with every other review, get Grievous a damn cough drop or something! :roll:
-When the hell did Battle Droids have personalities?!?
-Too much Bail Organa, not enough Chewbacca

Garth Algar
05-19-2005, 04:42 AM
now that i've seen it, i'm thinking i've wasted 6 years of my life and thousands of dollars on useless toys.......i'm thinking there was way too much CGI, the editing was horrible............all the lightsaber battles sucked, grevious was a useless, stupid character, palpatine was very campy, the wookies were wasted, the film was not dark, it did not deserve a PG-13 rating.

anakin getting his legs and arm cut off was horribly filmed. chris lee got ripped off by george lucas and peter jackson. horrible death scenes in both movies.

i really liked episode 1,(though now it seems weak) was very disapointed by episode 2, and went into episode 3 with low expectations, and was still let down.

i've got tickets for 2:45 pm today...i'm not going.

Sentinel18725
05-19-2005, 05:14 AM
Well....I enjoyed watching Anakin getting swayed by Palpatine. I thought that was very very important to include. The large battles were incredibly shot/created. Looked very good.

There will always be critics...I'm going to be one now. The battle on Kashykk was too little. It needed to be longer and more detailed. Seeing pre-planning and then clone troopers entrenched really made it feel like a battle. Some of the CGI looked a little sloppy but overall pretty good. Missed Jeremy Bulloch as the pilot..so I guess no figure...barely saw George Lucas.....so I guess no figure....

Biggest disappointments:

1. I thought we would see Yoda selecting Dagobah to hide at.
2. I thought that we would see Qui-Gon Jin talking about the force.
3. The scene with Darth Vader screaming was horrible
4. The way he went all Frankenstein when getting off the table was bad.
5. How about Vader getting/making his red lightsaber.

I'll see it again in about a week. Very good overall though

2-1B
05-19-2005, 05:20 AM
Huh ? Bulloch was there and he even had a line of dialogue !

Triplesaber
05-19-2005, 05:41 AM
mmm...it may never be the best SW ever, but i like it. Nothing beats ESB. The CGI? I thought ILM was the pioneer of them all. The saber duels r way too fast, it tkes away the beauty of it. The pace of the movie is also fast, i pity Lucas for trying to put evrythin in it n still fails. I agree the tone is dark on this one.

Fluke Skywalker
05-19-2005, 05:55 AM
Doh! I missed Jeremy, wasn't even thinking about it. I did see Lucas' cameo. Missed the Falcon. :frus:

I am beat, but I'll chime in, though reading through here, I don't have anything that insightful to add.

Likey:

The film looks fantastic. F/X truly off the charts.
The best opening for any SW movie.
The acting is very good. Not just good for the prequels good. Portman actually seemed alive... until she died :dead: Ian and Ewan are the greatest. Hayden pulled it off, for the most part and when it really counted.
The duels.. the dules... the dules were great!!! :D
JW's score was off the charts... and should be on the charts

Not so likey:

Uh, wasn't Chewbacca supposed to be in this film? Wookies for two minutes... Hmmm... I smell a marketing ploy Georgie boy! Shame!
General Greivous... the Jar Jar of all Star Wars villians. An embarassment IMO.
The middle act is slow and talky, even by Star Wars standards.
The Mace/Palps duel. That was painful to watch. Started off like gangbusters then became an episode of Scooby doo.
Vader's "Noooooo!" What a real letdown. How could Lucas have approved that?

Overall, the best of the PT by far IMO. These aren't the OT, for better or for worse, but ROTS is more than a worthy entrant into the SW saga and might just surpass ROTJ on my list. OK, it does.

One last note, glad to see that all of the hype surrounding the "Politics" of ROTS was just that, hype. I had started jokingly referring to Ep III as 'Starenheit 9/11'. Some people will look at a turd, and if they're hungry enough, they'll think it's a chocolate éclair. No propoganda here. Just Star Wars.

Won-Dum Jedi
05-19-2005, 07:33 AM
Bravo!

That's what I have to say.

Couple things that have probably been mentioned already:

1. The Wookie battle was way too short.
2. No explanation of Sypho-Daiz, or whoever was really behind the creation of the Clone army.
3. Dissapointed that Qui-Gon didn't appear when he was mentioned.
4. The acting was a lot better than I expected, I thought Hayden did a real good job. Ewan, Ian, Yoda always great in their parts.
5. Thought Lucas did a good job on making Anakin/Vader more of a fallen hero than a monster.
6. Dissapointed that we didn't get to see Yoda head to Dagobah.
7. Greivous was not the big bad the Clone Wars made him out to be.

That's it for now. All in all great, only Empire stands higher than this one.

AndyW
05-19-2005, 09:20 AM
On the whole, I enjoyed it. It was a good two hours of Star Wars fun, and for me it rounded the trilogy off nicely. There are many good things I could say, but it will take me too long to type and mostly the film was a blur. But the opening squence, Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Bail Organa and R2's messing around all with the lifts stood out for me. Good old star wars fun. I thought the two births (Vader/The Twins) was very well done, and I don't really have a problem with the "Noooooooo" bit.

Sadly, there were things that glared out for me that I didn't like. More stuff about Qui-Gon. Just a scene where he speaks to Yoda just before Bail interupts him to say Kenobi has made contact on Poliss Massa, thats all it needed. Instead it was rushed, and Obi-Wans reaction was much the same as the audience's. "er, what the frack?".

Padmes death seemed hollow to me, I felt no emotion. Though I can ignore this as I thought the Anakin/Obi Wan duel climax was quite moving.

But, on the whole, I wasn't dissapointed, but then again, I wasn't really with the last two films so I can't complain.

Dark Helmet
05-19-2005, 09:20 AM
I was fortunate to see it at at 7:30pm due to being 3rd in line and having a lady from 20th century Fox approach me asking if I wanted to see a sneak promo showing. Of I accepted and watched it again at 12:01 est.

I thought the movie overall was good. I liked the fight scenes with Yoda and sidious and seeing windu fly through the glass. Dooku's death was excellent
but.....
the biggest letdowns were the Qui gon references from yoda speaking of talking those who had passed away( as OBI did w/Luke in ANH). But we did not see the development of that "just training I have for you" from yoda.
Not enough wookies at all - zero screen time in my opinion.
C3PO did not have enough time.
Greivous needs to have some cough medicine - annoying.
Didn't show the wookie world enough at all.

But the seduction to the dark side was there but the movie moved so quickly with @10 minutes left and we have the twins being moved then we show the deathstar under construction. End of movie.....I guess I just did not want it to end. It could have been 3 hours longer and I wouldn't have cared but NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Did anyone see Bobba Fett? Maybe he was there but I didn't see him. Saw the Falcon though.lol

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 10:03 AM
Freakin' sweet! I'm trying not too be to in love or too critical of the movie since I've only seen it once (so far :D ), but as of right now, RotS ranks right behind "ESB" for me! The action was incredible, the acting was head and shoulders above the previous two, it really tied up alot of loose ends, and Mace didn't, in fact, go out like a b**ch (as Samuel L. has promised for years). Wasn't too fond of the whole R2 sequence in the beginning, but I'm sure it'll grow on me. Greivous ranks just above Darth Maul in terms of lame villian (I never liked him in the "CW" cartoons, so a big part of my opinion comes from that). I did notice Bulloch as on of the pilots of the Tantive IV. OK, here it is. The thing that bothered me most: During the battle on the bridge of the Invisible Hand the huge viewing window gets broken and except for the suction or something no one seems to be affected by this. IT'S A FREAKING VACUUM!!! They'd all be dead! Perhaps I'm just being over critical. Overall, I loved it and can't wait to see it again!!

CanadianPharaoh
05-19-2005, 10:19 AM
I was amazed at how quickly padme came up with a name for a child she didn't know she had.


This is easy. She planned to name the kid Luke if it was a boy and Leia if it was a girl. Since one of each gender appeared, she got to use both names.

My sister just gave birth two days ago, I know she had names ready to go. It was a girl, so the baby was named instantly.

JetsAndHeels
05-19-2005, 10:22 AM
I wanted more of General Grievous. He now ranks up there with Maul and Jango Fett. Alot of hype, hardly no screen time and no big significance to the greater scheme of things (well, at least Jango was the source for creating the clones). However I did love the beginning of the duel between him and Obi Wan. Seeing his arms split into 2 and revealing the 4 lightsabers was cool.
Just wish we could have seen more of the ruthless, killing machine that he was made to be in the CW cartoons.

Patient Zero
05-19-2005, 10:24 AM
Believe it or not (for those of you that know how cynical I am), I really liked it. Sure it had some negative points, but the positive parts were far more frequent.

Most of it has already been discussed here so I won't bother to repeat it. However did anyone else notice that Obi-wan seemed (although mildly) to be the comic relief character for this movie. It was not so much as for the jokes themselves, but instead as the sarcastic expressions he held.

mabudonicus
05-19-2005, 10:45 AM
Jonna- funny, I thought the film was pretty funny overall, I'm kinda surprised that you are the first to actually hang a hat on it :beard:

I thought the film was GREAT myself.. 21-B was like cirque de freaking soleil, man, the way he was all over the place like that was awesome, he definitely needs a new figure now :D

And is it just me or were roughly 50% of the lines some form of double-entendre??? (if not, it's likely that it was just too late at night for me to understand what was actually happening)

And I thought GG was a lot better than most folks it seems- I thought he was actually really nice and silly but real daangerous at the same time- the over-the-top "serious" of Darth Maul always bugged me, so I thought GG was much better definged in terms of throwaway characters

Can't wait to see it again (thought I'll have to...) :beard: :beard:

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 10:56 AM
I thought the film was GREAT myself.. 21-B was like cirque de freaking soleil, man, the way he was all over the place like that was awesome, he definitely needs a new figure now :D

And the great "What do 'the Deuces' legs look like?" debate has come to an end!:beard:

Patient Zero
05-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Jonna- funny, I thought the film was pretty funny overall, I'm kinda surprised that you are the first to actually hang a hat on it :beard:

Hang a hat? I'm not sure I understand you there. I enjoyed it for mainly two reasons. The first is that it tryed to reach back to the dark feeling of ESB and the second is that, in comparison, it is so much better then the last two films. I never expected this trilogy to measure up to the first one. I just wanted the last part to come close and I believe it did.

Now if they could just edit out Vader's scream and show more jedi deaths...

Hasbro'sBountyHunter
05-19-2005, 11:26 AM
Saw the midnight screening as well. I was pretty much in shock after the movie ended. Be honest, who else cried? As for what I thought of ROTS:

Likes:
Bail Organa's character
R2-D2's humor
The Jedi massacre (in a bittersweet way)
Yoda dealing with the Royal Guards
Yoda vs Palpy
Anakin being engulfed

Dislikes:
Kashyyyk battle too short
General Greivous' character
Dooku's Death
Mace's Death
Palpatine's hissing
Dream sequences
"Nooooooooooooo"

Anyway, someone mind telling me where all the known easter eggs are? I might wanna keep an eye out for them the next time I see ROTS.

manji
05-19-2005, 11:28 AM
Although I enjoyed it, the CGI in the space battle seemed too cartoonish for my tastes and the dialogue between Padme and Anakin after the rescue was horrendous. I also preferred the Clone Wars Grievous to the ROTS version. However, the second half of the movie (after the opera house) was intensely gratifying! I'll have to watch it a few more times (when it isn't midnight after a long day's work) to solidify my opinion.

I do have one question, though, that stuck out in my mind and I haven't been able to figure out. I thought Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Jedi Knight in TPM yet was still on the Jedi Council. In ROTS, Anakin throws a fit because he is appointed to the Council but is not made a Master and claims it has never happened before him. Am I way off on this? I tried to watch Episode I again but fell asleep! Can someone help me out on this one?

DarthZylek
05-19-2005, 11:47 AM
I thought Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Jedi Knight in TPM yet was still on the Jedi Council. In ROTS, Anakin throws a fit because he is appointed to the Council but is not made a Master and claims it has never happened before him. Am I way off on this? I tried to watch Episode I again but fell asleep! Can someone help me out on this one?

A case of EU being contradicted by the "canon". In the comic it talked about Ki-Adi being only a knight, but George obviously overuled that one.

Tycho
05-19-2005, 11:52 AM
I liked it and it closed the whole saga up nicely.

But I was disappointed, but not let down.

I thought the movie would be a "10 out of 10" for me, but it's kind of like a 7 or 8 on first impressions, and I think that Empire Strikes Back was possibly a better film - and I like the prequels. But right now I've had 25 years to be adjusted to seeing ESB.

However, the script was better in ESB, as were all the performances save for Ian McDiarmid's (Palpatine) who did so great with his part in ROTS that he stole the show. Yoda was great in ROTS too though.

What disappointed me and what did I like?

Dislikes:

The dialogue and the humor put into the space battle. This was one of the mother-of-all space battles in SW or at least it could have been - but the cockiness and poorly delivered lines (poorly written lines too maybe) started the film on the wrong note. The Battles of Endor and Yavin were deadly serious. Hoth was tragic and the danger was present. ROTS' Battle of Corsuscant felt fake. The buildings should have been in danger with more orbital debris setting fires to the City and making Sept 11th scenes all over the cityscape. They missed an opportunity.

Also that caused the movie to start being very dorky.

MOST THINGS AFTER THAT were very cool and I loved. But it's critical how a movie starts to wrap you in.

THE LIKES

The best was Palpatine's seducing Anakin to the Dark Side, especially the Opera Scene and when Anakin drew his lightsaber on Palpatine. While Ian's performance was steller, I agree and think the conflict and torn-within performance Hayden gave was incredible.

Obi-Wan and Anakin, while having the movie's worst scenes together, had some of the best: their discussion in the temple after Anakin was made a member of the High Council and that relationship and trust as friends was truly important to make you care about the characters as they fought each other later. Then with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, again the dialogue and delivery was great! Had the space battle not been so silly, I'd have not been scared that the duel was going to suck due to the dialogue and passion being absent - but Lucas delivered, as did Hayden and Ewan in the end.

I could not believe how much they showed of Anakin being burned alive and Obi-Wan watching it and the torment he felt. I think more of the aftershock to Obi-Wan and how that scene affected him needed to be shown. Ewan could have done some good work with that. I WAS RIGHT AFTER ALL - ANAKIN DOES NOT FALL INTO THE LAVA - hahahaha!

I loved the building Vader scene and his subsequent torment and scream and hits homage to Frankenstein's Monster. I couldn't believe they operated on him while he was still conscious! Geeze that looked painful! It made Han's torture on Bespin look like nothing!

Padme and the birth of the twins and Luke's cries when his mother died was heart wrenching. Why she didn't live for her own children was beyond me though. I thought Padme was stronger. I would have had her accidently thrown and impaled on something that might puncture her chest but not her womb - and from that, have her death be caused - only she lives long enough to protect her babies until they can be delivered. Also, were she still "dying" as opposed to being dead, she could have spent time with Leia on Polis Massan after Obi-Wan left, but I guess Ewan helped her death scene - but Bail Organa could have just as easily added a human element to that - though again, it wouldn't be in Obi-Wan's character to leave before he knew her fate. She was his friend.

Anakin and Obi-Wan's words before their duel was just great. I can't wait to see that exchange again. I'm seeing the movie again in 4 1/2 hours from now.

Fallucia where Aayla Secura died was a most interesting planet they showed almost nothing of. That would have been a cool scene to explore.

Yeah the longer Wookiee battle and seeing more of Kashyyyk's legendary Worshyrrr trees would have been great.

On reflection, this almost could have been / could be better than Empire Strikes Back...but it's too early to tell. I think "could have been" is the best operator here, since the dialogue and writing in some spots could have been less cartoony. It's like Palpatine's new addition to ESB - it doesn't flow naturally. Lucas seems to be kind of OFF sometimes.

But ROTS was worth the wait!

Jayspawn
05-19-2005, 12:21 PM
I was absolutly mezmorized, and I thought it was incredible. Here's my notes in a nutshell...

Great opening battle, I really liked the new Starfighters Obi-Wan and Anakin flew. They looked cool!

General Grevious I thought was gooing to be a little more impressive than he was. I was excited though when his arms opened up and he started spinning his lightsabers! I liked how Obi-Wan carefully watched him at first to see how he moved. Good movie. I like all the coughing that Grevious did -like he'd worked on himself so much that he was unhealthy.

Count Dooku wasnt in the movie enough. But I'm a Christopher Lee fan anyways and though he was good! Man, he was really trying to tick Anakin off and and got what he deserved. The look on his face when Palpatine said "Kill him."

I loved Jimmy Smits' preformance, and I wish he had been in it more. I missed Mon Mothma the 1st time. I'm gonna see it again tonight. I liked seeing Tarkin again and wish he had some lines. I liked JarJar in the movie and glad he lived through it (that that you JarJar haters!). And glad to see Boss Nass again!

I really like R2-D2 and C-3PO and thought they were great!

Ian McDiarmid's preformance was absolutly incredible! The scenes with Palpatine could have been very boring had Ian McDiarmid been a stale actor. He made great character transitions as his true identity was revealed. His fight scenes w/ Yoda were great as well. It was a great grudge match! I loved it!

Yoda was great. I liked how he senced the pain of the other Jedi's deaths. I always had an idead that he would. I loved how he took out the Red Royal Guards!

I thought the Jedi's death scenes absolutly heart-wretching!

Natalie Portman's scenes seemed to be pretty random at 1st. But then, I just saw a NEW Star Wars movie. Her diologue w/ Hayden was hit and miss I thought. Some great and some not so -but then who am I to say how a married couple should talk to eachother. She did a great job with her emotional preformance though.

I thought Hayden was great. I liked him alright in AOTC but he was more complex this time around. I really liked his showdown w/ Palpatine when he figures out who he is. His preformance when talking about "My power" and "My Empire" was great. I also liked how he was refered to as Darth Vader before he was even given his suit.

Ewan McGregor was truely the star of the movie. His preformance I thought was absolutly amazing. Great writing, great acting. I truely saw his transition into Alec Guiness's preformance. His fight scene with Hayden was incredible as well. Action packed, well run. I loved how Obi-Wan and Anakin spoke to eachother before and during the fight. I loved Obi-Wan scooping up Anakin's Lightsaber at the end.

All in all, I thought it was a great movie. I like it better than The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. But I thought it was a great sequel to them also as well as a great transition into A New Hope.

QLD
05-19-2005, 12:59 PM
Did anyone else think that Tarkin's head looked CGI?

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 01:10 PM
Did anyone else think that Tarkin's head looked CGI?
I thought the same thing. He looked a bit off.

Slicker
05-19-2005, 01:11 PM
I finally got to see it at the 10 am showing and I totally loved it. I'll have to see it at least 20 more times to get the whole effect but I think I'll like.:p

Only 2 things I didn't like: Grevious and the whole Vader "Nooooooo" thing at the end.

bighead5
05-19-2005, 01:23 PM
Not a whole lot I could add here that hasn't been written several times over but I did love the movie.

Likes:
Most of the saber battles although some were too quick both time and speed-wise
Obi/Anakin's interactions, duels, etc.
Palpy... AWESOME

Dislikes:

Opening scene wasn't as serious as I thought it should have been.
No explanation of why Tarkin, even though he's not a Sith Lord, is "above" Vader in Episode IV. Maybe this has been answered before, but I never heard it.
Battle of Kashyyk... was there really a battle there? I think I missed it.
No appearances of Qui-Gon, Luminara, Shaak Ti, Barriss Offee or Mon Mothma
No Vader (the traditional version) kicking butt all over the galaxy
Palpy killing the three jedi in his office way too quickly and easily before the final duel with Mace.
Greivous... I thought he was supposed to kick a**, not suck a**! Definitely not what the CW cartoons made him out to be.

Despite the many more dislikes I have listed above (I have a lot more likes than above, but they've been covered before by others), I loved the movie and thought it was the best one as a whole as far as the story is concerned; although, I still think A New Hope is my favorite... but give it time.

CanadianPharaoh
05-19-2005, 01:26 PM
How could you not like the "Nooooo!" scene with Vader? Would you rather he were sulky throughout episodes 4,5 and 6? It had to be done to show that he was truly hurt by his actions and he is also accepting his fate as Dark Lord of the Sith. I think Lucas blocked the scene quite well... good pace, that pullback shot when he screams was just awesome. Just campy enough to fit in the whole "space serial" feel (which everyone should remember is how the trilogies are supposed to feel). Lucas also had to do it fast, show Vader's anguish quickly and get it out of the way. If the scene were 15 minutes long it would have been too much. I thought it was just right.

And yes, the operating while conscious scene was very unnerving.

Did anyone else find it weird to hear Darth Vader asking about Padmé? It threw me off but was cool to know that he's not just the evil man in the suit (yet) and still was Anakin Skywalker underneath.

Darkness Shroud
05-19-2005, 01:27 PM
I have seen it twice today and i love it! My first viewing i was in total shock when my favorite characters changed or died. Aayla Secura Baby you never had a chance!! Ki Adi Mundi you still the man! Did anyone spot Shaak Ti? I got most of the familiar Jedi but not her. The film itself is truly a return to form. I still Love the other 2 prequels. The pain and anguish the characters go through is great! Especially when Vaders mask closes in on his face!! FANTASTIC!! :) I love it!

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 01:27 PM
No appearances of Luminara, Barriss Offee

Someone feel free to correct me since I've only seen it once, but I'm pretty sure one of these two makes a brief background appearance on Kashyyyk.

Slicker
05-19-2005, 01:28 PM
Not to be nit picky but Luminara (or was it Barris?) was on Kashyyyk I believe. You see her right quick standing on a platform but she was in no way fighting on camera that I saw.

vadersvette
05-19-2005, 01:51 PM
Saw it at midnight...AMAZING!!!

The movie was so well done, compared to the other two.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the first two, but this one blew those two away!
My only complaints are:
-The super high-pitched kiddy voices of the battle droids.
-R2-D2 moving extremely fast for some reason :confused: and jumping out of the ship
-Those crappy looking hovering platforms on Mustafar that Obi and Anakin rode on while fighting (it looked so horrible)
-again, like in AOTC, Dooku is only in for a little while. He's a good character that never gets developed or much screen time.
-Where was Mon Mothma?? :confused:
-Not enough Wookiee time :crazed:
-Tarkin was there, but was never introduced, nor was the Death Star talked about.
-Qui-Gon should have appeared as a ghost, instead of just mentioning his name at the end.

A lengthly list, but most are little nit-picky details. THE MOVIE WAS GREAT!!!!
I give it :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

I_Luciferi
05-19-2005, 01:53 PM
Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

was it just me or did anyone else get the feeling that there were HUGE gaps missing in the plot and that certain characters were edited out entirely? I am so completely dissapointed and outraged by the lameness of this movie that I think I am in shock.

Biggest dissapointments:
Chewbacca's 4 second screen time
Mace Windu's death...expected something way cooler.
Darth Vader's nameing...."You will be Darth....umm...ummm...Vader!"
The ending, namely Vader screaming NOOOOOO!
the complete and total lack of drama, dialogue and exposition.

in my opinion this movie was in some ways better than the prequels but thats not saying much, I am gonna go forget that these movies ever happened/

sevboot
05-19-2005, 01:57 PM
I liked it! But I think a lot of the reason I liked it was because it was Star Wars. I think it's the reason most of us will like if we are honest about it.
And that's not the worst thing in the world, but it's kinda exasperating.
The first two Star Wars movies (Star Wars and Empire) were great movies because they were exciting, fun and very well executed. Jedi was good but we also forgave some really lame things because it was Star Wars.
Teddy bears could not take out a galactic army, but because the final fight between Vader, Luke and the Emperor is so good we still love it. Now, I actually kinda like TPM and AOTC. I mostly like them because they are Star Wars movies though. There are some very goofy, badly thought out parts to both of them. But again, I forgive them because they have light saber duels at the end of both movies and they are pretty to look at for the most part.
This last movie has some very good stuff in it. And some very lame stuff.
You shouldn't have to forgive that much bad directing. I say bad directing because I will not blame the actors. They do good work in other movies. Very good work. George just does not know how to direct serious moments and moments of tenderness. He's lucky McDirmid is such a good actor that he pulls off the seduction of Anakin stuff. Alas, there are some really bad CGI moments in the film too, and that's coming from someone who thinks CGI is a great tool. Look at LOTR for example. And why does George keep coming up with cool villians only to see them get used to the very smallest of their potential? Clone Wars GG kicks the crap out of the movie version. And the Jedi got took out like a bunch of losers. None of the others sensed what was going on beside Yoda? Lamo!! Even how Palpatine took out the other three jedi that come to arrest him was lame. It would have made more sense if used Sith lightning, but they never even tried to block him!! Oh, well...sigh.
But like the first two movies it has some great saber duels. I liked the confrontation between Palpatine and Yoda. And the duel between Anakin and Obi-won was good until the end. "I have the highground" was super lame. Um, why didn't Anakin just float down further to shore, or force push Obi-wan? Maybe even fling lava at him? Or just jump straight at him and continue fighting? Good gravy, how many times during that fight did one or the other have the "highground" so to speak? How can Obi-wan cut off three parts at once? That was as bad as the way Obi-wan took out Maul.
And Maul really did have the highground!! All of the sudden Maul just stooped fighting so Obi could jump out of the whole he was in, do a flip over Maul's head, while Maul was watching mind you, and then watched Obi-won land behind him and take a swing a him without even trying to swipe at Obi-wan the whole time? Man, even now I hate how stupid that was. And then ther is NOOOOOOOooOOOOooooOOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOO. Wow. Just wow. WHAT A WASTE OF VADER. Sigh. So anyway, even after all of this I somehow still like it. But I don't like it because it's a really good movie, I like it because it's Star Wars. And in the end I like the Clone Wars cartoon more than any of the Prequel movies.

Blackened88
05-19-2005, 01:59 PM
Well I'm sad not because it's bad movie but because it's all over.:( Anyways I thought some disapontments were the Clones were not a big roll as I thought it would have been. Tarkin had no role, I thought he was really going to be in the movie. Dooku getting pwn3d so early on in the movie same goes for Grevious. In the show Grevious seemed unstopable but in the movie he was nothing to obi. Kit Fisto getting pwn3d like it was nothing.:( I really like Kit Fisto thats why. I did like and never thought that Mace would beat Palpy, does anyone else think that Mace can still be alive. But I still liked the Movie very much and thought it was good, I'll need to see it again real soon. :)

CaptainSolo1138
05-19-2005, 02:05 PM
Geez, doesn't anyone have anything good to say? I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am. :rolleyes:

bighead5
05-19-2005, 02:08 PM
Not to be nit picky but Luminara (or was it Barris?) was on Kashyyyk I believe. You see her right quick standing on a platform but she was in no way fighting on camera that I saw.

Thanks, I obviously missed that but I'll look when I go see it again later today.

One other thing I really didn't like that nobody has mentioned so far is that the voices for the Neimoidians and the Battle Droids were totally different from the other prequels... not the same pitch with the droids or the same type of accents with the Neimoidians. I don't understand why GL did that other than to be more Politically Correct, but why bother to do that now?

Mad Slanted Powers
05-19-2005, 02:16 PM
Yes, I believe that Kashyyyk is where I saw Luminara. I did not notice Shaak Ti or Barriss Offee. The back of the Barriss 12 inch figure suggests she was on the same planet as Aayla. I'll have to look for that next time. Did anyone see Mon Mothma? I did not see her.

I'm not sure how I rate this film. In many ways great, in some ways not. A lot of it is the same feelings I had with the last two movies. So much to take in that it is hard to absorb all at once, whereas the OT has been part of our consciousness for so long it is hard to remember feeling like that for those films.

I guess for me, having liked the last two films, especially TPM, I don't understand how all of a sudden people are praising this film so much more. I guess a problem for me was Anakin's pledging himself to Palpatine. This is something that was in Entertainment Weekly last week -
But Sith's most pivotal moment occurred last summer, when the F/X artists at Industrial Light & Magic told Lucas they didn't think it was clear why Anakin went bad. Later, during 10 days of reshooting, Lucas says, "I really locked the story." I understand that he was motivated by his desire to save Padmé, but something still didn't seem right. One moment, he is saying "What have I done?" after Mace has been killed. Then a few seconds later it is like he was hypnotized and is mindlessly uttering this oath to Palpatine.

Despite that, I still liked it, and will need to view it again to take in more of the detail. I think that moment just kind of confused me and made the next part of the film a bit difficult. But then again, perhaps that was the intent, as the next part involved slaughtering Jedi children. If you were watching Star Wars for the first time in order 1-6, perhaps you would be hoping Anakin would do the right thing. However, at that point you would feel betrayed, and at the end of the movie you would feel the transformation is complete.

bigbarada
05-19-2005, 02:19 PM
I caught it at the midnight showing last night and all I can say right now is that this is easily the most dark, disturbing and incredibly unpleasant moviegoing experience I can remember.

I'm supposed to see it again this weekend with some friends but I dread the idea of having to sit through this thouroughly depressing story once again. I might find some way to cancel.

I didn't feel the urge to buy any toys or "take home a piece of this movie" when I left the theater. In fact, I want to keep this movie, and all the prequels, at arms length and distance myself from them forever. And for that I thank you, Mr. Lucas.

And what in the world made Hasbro believe that kids would want to be Darth Vader after witnessing Anakin's actions in the movie?

I really have the urge to pop-in ROTJ, watch the Endor battle and find my happy-place again. :)

hango fett
05-19-2005, 02:27 PM
well, i have now seen it 3 times, and it is clearly the best IMO. everyone was awsome, especially the emperor. amazing. it was very sad to see all those jedi die....but they didn't show anything about luminara or shakk ti. but i assume luminara died because she was on kashyyyk wth yoda, and he would probably have found her and had her come with him.
HF

scruffziller
05-19-2005, 03:10 PM
A case of EU being contradicted by the "canon". In the comic it talked about Ki-Adi being only a knight, but George obviously overuled that one.

I was confused on this one as well. The only place I ever found this info was in that EPS 1 scrapbook that came out back in 1999. Where it had a pic of the Jedi council and gave backstory to all the Jedi on the council. It said that Ki-Adi-Mundi was the only knight on the council. Now by EPS 2 he was a master. I am sure it was not mentioned in EPS 1 the movie because I remembered from reading the scrapbook and learning the info I was suprised by it. Was it in the novelization?

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-19-2005, 03:41 PM
I could not believe how much they showed of Anakin being burned alive and Obi-Wan watching it and the torment he felt. I think more of the aftershock to Obi-Wan and how that scene affected him needed to be shown. Ewan could have done some good work with that. I WAS RIGHT AFTER ALL - ANAKIN DOES NOT FALL INTO THE LAVA - hahahaha!



alright then, you're like 1/15 on your wacky ideas. I don't remember hearing anything a bout Dooku being Anakin's dad or any sort of Han Solo being a clonetrooper, so i'll let you have this one, tycho. :crazed:

Maximillian Phokas
05-19-2005, 03:47 PM
I can honestly say that for me, Star Wars now officially begins with Revenge of the Sith.

What a great movie! Apparently Lucas must have watched Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings to figure out how to make a good film because I expected the movie to be better than TPM and AOTC, but I never thought THIS good!

The acting was much more realistic this time around, and even though there were moments of cringing between the Anakin Padme scenes, the overall tone of the film was definately on par with the Classic Trilogy. Is it as good as Empire? No. But then again, most of us have placed ESB on such a high plane that nothing ever will come close, but this film definately provided some relief that Lucas WAS listening to his critics (us fans) and took much into consideration. I know a lot of my friends were hoping Jar Jar would get killed, or somehow trip and impale himself or something, but he was just written off into oblivion in this film, which is even better for me - not even worthy of consideration.

Could the movie be better? Sure: less jumping around from 30 second scene to 30 second scene, more dogfighting in the beginning, more Chewbacca, more Tarkin, and if we're seeing Kashyyk, where's Itchy, Naala, Lumpy, and Art Carney??? Haha! Just kidding on that last one :)

master J
05-19-2005, 03:51 PM
WHO is Syfo dyas???? Seriously! You think they would've addressed that!?
They really need to make the DVD 3 hours long... had some pretty big gaps!
Good movie though!

darthvyn
05-19-2005, 03:52 PM
i really liked palpatine's account of darth plagueus (plagueis? plaigus? playgis?) "the wise." the bit about "he could use his influence over the midichlorians to create life" - palpatine is responsible for the "immaculate conception?" the evil little smile that came over his face when he said "he could stop people from dying, but he could not save his own life. ironic..." (or something to that effect, can't remember. only saw it once, and i'm very tired...) awesome. just awesome. the pseudo-ROJ anakin/dooku duel at the beginning, with palpatine "held prisoner" in his death star chair was great. the way palpatine played anakin like a harp from hell. totally let him hear what he wanted to hear, and played upon his fears. anakin's fall was completely plausible to me. i don't think there was anything wrong with his acceptance of palpatine as his new master. after doing what he did, he felt he had damned himself. he might as well go through with it now, if it will mean he can save padme.

all the relationships falling apart were gut-wrenching. the scene where anakin was in the temple looking towards padme's apartment, and padme was looking toward the jedi temple ablaze with blaster fire was just so emotional.

probably the best acted line i've ever heard in ANY movie:

"you were supposed to be the chosen one!"

although a close second would be:

"this is how liberty dies -- with thunderous applause."

yoda's last-minute thought that the prophecy was mis-interpreted... i loved that. and most of you know why ;)

yoda's knock-down, drag-out fight with palpatine gives creedence to his warnings to luke. "do not underestimate the powers of the emperor." roger that!

still, there were only a handful of things that stuck out for me. i thought john williams kinda phoned this one in. i dunno... maybe i need to see it again. i loved hearing the leia and luke themes at the end, though. no sypho-dias revelation, although i don't really mind that. obviously either palpatine or dooku commissioned the clone army. r2-d2 seemed to have a different "voice." too many beeps that didn't sound like him. but i'll get used to that one.

to me, it's tied for best with empire. the downer-endings triumph!

evenflow
05-19-2005, 04:07 PM
The movie was good, best of this new trilogy, but still doesnt touch the original movies. I think the most touching part was Obi-Wan proclaiming that Anakin was liek his brother and how could he do that. The ending scene with Vader screaming no was not my thing.

I get the feeling alot of stuff was cut out. Anyone have a list? I would have like to see more with the Wookies and also actually see Qui-Gon in spirit form.

Imperial Monarche
05-19-2005, 04:18 PM
now that i've seen it, i'm thinking i've wasted 6 years of my life and thousands of dollars on useless toys.......i'm thinking there was way too much CGI, the editing was horrible............all the lightsaber battles sucked, grevious was a useless, stupid character, palpatine was very campy, the wookies were wasted, the film was not dark, it did not deserve a PG-13 rating.

anakin getting his legs and arm cut off was horribly filmed. chris lee got ripped off by george lucas and peter jackson. horrible death scenes in both movies.

i really liked episode 1,(though now it seems weak) was very disapointed by episode 2, and went into episode 3 with low expectations, and was still let down.

i've got tickets for 2:45 pm today...i'm not going.

You, my friend, are FREAKIN' NUTS!!!! You obviously went in wanting to see a great summer blockbuster with no story what-so-ever. The whole story of Anakin's fall and Palpatine's seduction was a masterpiece of cinema. I think that Lucas' writing for the first two was not up to the same level to ANH (or even close, for that matter), but he completely redeemed himself with this one. The dialogue was better, the acting was much better, the special effects were good and the story was great. This was a true Star Wars and the closest we'll ever get to the OT. By far the best of the PT. I could say more, but I just haven't come up with the words yet.

tagmac
05-19-2005, 04:20 PM
Count Dooku pretended to be Sypho-Dyas and placed the order for the clone army. Of course, you'd have to read the visual dictionary to know that, seeing as how it was likely cut from the film. I'd like to know what happened to Dooku's supposed last words to Palpy, "you promised me amnesty?" That would have added to the tension of the scene, and to the confusion going through Anakin's mind.

nohagent
05-19-2005, 04:35 PM
I had all the same feelings/questions. I am glad I am not the only one.

nohagent
05-19-2005, 04:59 PM
Its over, I had a good time at the 3 am showing, but its over. I don't feel right. Extremely sad in a way. I know it was just a movie, not the best movie for some reasonable flaws, but a Star Wars movie. We all pretty much new what was going to happen and accepted the idea that Vader hunted down and killed all the Jedi knights, but when I saw it I was disturbed. It is hard to see the connection between this Vader and the ROTJ unmasked Vader, unless even though he was on the Dark Side that he was able to grow incredibly wise. I don't know I had pride in Vader of the OT, but not the same feeling when I saw Vader again, this time I could only think, "WEAK MINDED FOOL". All in all I wish I had not seen it yet. The wait for these movies was indeed the feeling of the thrill of the hunt, and now its over. Wow, I am depressed. Star Wars was such an entertaining part of my life for the last 27 years, since I was 4, and now it is gone. I am not obsessed but It was something I enjoyed and looked forward to more than many other things. I here so many people complaining about these movies, they hated TPM, and the ATOC, but how many times have those haters seen those movies?? I think they need to stop hating, stop complaining, and find the pleasure in these films before the hate and selfish displeasure ruin what is probably their last time to harness the joy of these films. I already miss them, with nothing to look forward to know I dont know what to do or think. I want to hurry to see this one again, but I do not want to run it so quickly through my system that I get numb to it. Sith is the last one........, and we should savor it.

Jedibill
05-19-2005, 05:11 PM
I loved the movie thought it was great, the only thing that disappointed me was that there was little clone and wookie action in the movie.

jonthejedi
05-19-2005, 05:56 PM
I was depressed going in(a 28-year wait was coming to an end)...I was more depressed coming out. Just an emotional ride for my wife & I, both choking back tears right & left. I won't nit-pick over the same subjects many of you have covered in your posts: cut scenes, not enough Chewie, etc. I knew this story was heading into dark territory for years, but Geez!!! I think I need therapy before returning to see it again. In short...Hayden delivered the goods, and I feel this is Lucas's masterpiece, his "Godfather.". Everyone appeared shell-shocked coming out of the theatre, with very little to say. Ewan's performance DID bring us to tears. Everyone connected with this project deserves BRAVO! Now I need to watch "The Happy Little Elf."

darko666
05-19-2005, 07:09 PM
i posted one review, but after seeing it for a third time, the 4th viewing will be tonight. i feel this movie gets better with each viewing. instead of just lookign at the eye candy, i listened to the dialouge this time around and heard some cool stuff. the whole Darth Plaugis(not sure how they spell it) story was great. and is it just me, or was paplatine hinting that he was the apprentice of Plaugis? because it would make sense for palpatine to be watching skywalker grow up and want him to be his apprentice. GL did rush the end of the film, but when the dvd comes out, it will contain all the deleted scenes and it will make up for that. the final duel, was more enjoyable the second and third time viewing it. i still love the Order 66 scene. it ranks as my fav. in the movie. commander cody is a cool character. funny to see him so loyal to Obi-Wan, then from one order, quickly turn on him. but this movie was in no way better than ESB. but good none the less.

some dislikes:
Chewbacca was poinltess, just as Boba Fett was in AOTC.
Saber battles were rushed.
The jedi temple massacre needed to be longer and show more.
Tarkin seemed to just be there for the OT tie in. not even a line of dialouge. what a waste.
And where was Qui-Gon?

Ji'dai
05-19-2005, 07:18 PM
I liked it and it closed the whole saga up nicely.

But I was disappointed, but not let down.

What disappointed me and what did I like?

I'm surprised that the wee little Mouse Droids didn't make your "like" list ;)

There was a whole flock of them scurrying away from Anakin as he entered the Separatist HQ on Mustafar.

DarthBrandon
05-19-2005, 08:10 PM
I took my Son (age 7) to see it this afternoon; both of us thought it rocked. I had to tell him several times to stop talking about it as he began driving me crazy with questions about why this & why that after the film. Finally I just said "you will learn it all in good time, now go eat your supper & be a good boy or you could end up like Anakin" His response was "heck no dad, I don't want to catch fire like he did & what he did to Mace was not nice". I thought that was pretty cool how he enjoyed it that much. No complaints from me either, I enjoyed it very much & plan to see it a few more times. :D

Likes (Everything) (Mace kicked Palpy's A%%) (movie flowed nicely) (Obi & Anakin) (Paply & Yoda,Mace,Anakin)
(All others involved) (2nd fav out of the 6)
Dislikes (nothing it was a good emotional ride)

General_Grievous
05-19-2005, 08:15 PM
Hoo boy. Two screenings in less than 8 hours today. Where do I begin? Well, I'll just say what I LOVED and what I didn't like too much.

LOVED:

-VADER!!!!!
-The beginning "drums of war" that opened the space battle. Just completely awesome.
-Artoo's comic bits. Needed a few light moments before the storm.
-Grievous. I thought that he was just there for eye candy, for the most part, but, c'mon, that was awesome when he first split his arms and started melting the floor.
-Very little Jar-Jar.
-The return of Boss Nass. Hey, I liked him better than Jar Jar.
-Wookiees!!!!! And the return of Chewie (which, BTW, got a cheer from the audience)
-Order 66: Powerful, sad stuff. But Jett Lucas' role was better than I thought it would be.
-Improved acting from everyone, most notably Hayden.
-Ian McDiarmid, Frank Oz and Ewan McGregor OWNED this movie!!
-Lightsaber Duels. Fast and furious. Esp. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan.
-Temuera Morrison. I don't know why, but I just like this guy.
-Imperial Officers, Tarkin, and the Death Star tied it in nicely to the OT.
-Birth of the twins.
-The cameos. I spotted GL and all of his kids.
-Mace's death scene.
-The slaughter of the separatists. Nute Gunray had it coming since TPM.
-The fact that Owen was wearing what would later be Luke's tunic.
-Finally, we get to see Alderaan.

WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE THAT MUCH:
-Too much editing. The Dagobah scene wasn't there. George better include ALL of the cut scenes on the DVD.
-Was Qui-Gon's voice supposed to be heard at all?
-Palpatine's weird change of voice pitch after his face gets messed up. It went from high to low, back and forth until it finally sounded like he did in ROTJ.
-Kashyyk was rushed.
-Some of Yoda's scenes were too cute. (Him crawling around in the vents, saying he'll miss Chewie) I succumbed to the cuteness. Awwww!


Anyway, final verdict?

BETTER THAN EPISODES I, II and VI combined!!! A great way to end the saga. Thank you, George, for sharing your imagination with us. And May the Force be with you all.

Lord Malakite
05-19-2005, 09:47 PM
Overall I enjoyed this movie quite a deal. The R2 scenes at the beginning were alright, nice to see he could handle himself. Didn't care too much for all the useless one line chit chat between the super and regular battle droids.

General Grievous, what can I say, I liked the character. The four lightsaber thing was awsome, not as impressive as some of his moves in the Clone Wars cartoon, but impressive none the less. I think the biggest problem people are having with Grevious over say Maul or Jango is the fact he is a cyborg. It leaves open the question as to how he got that way or why he was coughing (if you had not seen Mace force crush his chest in the final Clone Wars chapter). With Maul or Jango the characters' origins can pretty easily be self explained by the average viewer to an extent.

The battle scenes on other planets like Kashykk was a bit rushed. Had Yoda not made a big deal about it in the council like he did, or perhaps made a bigger deal about the other worlds Ki Adi, etc. were off battling, perhaps it would of balanced out some. A few scenes should have been kept that were deleted, like the Yoda Qui-Gon scene or the Mon Mothma Rebel Allience scene. It would have done a better job setting up the beginning of episode IV. Lucas still sucks at love scenes, should of got an outside source for that like he did for ESB.

The final scene with the suit was great until he questioned about Padme. Loved how we get to see the mask lowered and seeing what Ani sees through the mask's eyes. Gives more meaning to the final scene with Vader and Luke in ROTJ. I can forgive the Franken walk thing as he was new to being in the suit, shows he is only human and not all powerful as he believes. I expected more destruction though from Vader. For someone so angry there wasn't that much destruction and he broke the restraints on the table far too easily. One final thing that bothered me, the Padme dieing/giving birth scene. She didn't exactly seem all that close to death's door. Could of learned a thing or two from Sabastian's performance in ROTJ.

Veers
05-19-2005, 09:57 PM
I loved it!

v7sg
05-19-2005, 11:07 PM
I loved it.

my dislikes:
1-for a PG-13 rating we could have SEEN more Jedi slaughtered, especially from Anakin.
2-Anakin/Obi-Wan battle ended too quickly.
3- NO Qui-Gon Jinn

basschick
05-19-2005, 11:31 PM
i wish i loved it. i feel empty and let down - and unlike some, i did like the prequels, although not nearly as much as the ot.

matthewilw
05-19-2005, 11:31 PM
One more thing that I absolutely loved, was when Obi and Yoda were fighting their way into the jedi temple and Yoda threw his lightsaber, only to retrieve it from a clone troopers chest and continue fighting. Up until this point I always wondered why none of the lightside characters ever threw their lightsabers like Vader does in ROTJ, and then it all made sense. Because none of them are as cool as Yoda.

Monstermile
05-19-2005, 11:37 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed it. Just did two viewings and will do a few more at least to take it all in.

-The Noooooo didn't really bother me too much. In fact I didn't put much thought into it until reading this thread. Still really doesn't bother me. It fits what the man inside the machine was feeling.
-Grevious was annoying with the coughing and overly-animated movement.
-R2 scenes were a bit bothersome. How come he never moved that fast in the OT. In fact I thought it was great in the OT when he waddled.
-The campyness was back in the Battle Droids. Could've done w/o it.
-Too many questions left un-answered.

Everything else about the movie was incredible. It was intense, sad and emotional. It didn't have anywhere as much of the boring filler as the first two PTs did. It was a wild ride. Up and down like the best roller coaster you could ever ride. I remember my jaw dropping several times in disbelief at what I was seeing. Dooku getting snuffed so quickly and in the manner he did. Anakin slaughtering the younglings. The whole "Order 66" scene. WOW!!! I'm glad I stayed 95% spoiler free.

And the tie-ins were great.

The inside scenes of Tantive IV (which were blinding BTW)
Captain Antilles getting the droids
The Emperors Shuttle
Owen standing on Tatooine looking towards the Twin Suns. Did anyone else gets chills during that scene???

But we all have to face the fact that it is pretty much over. We can relive all of them on DVD or whatever form of media is down the pike. But we will never have the anticipation of another big screen event again.

Or will we ;)

Darth Kirk
05-19-2005, 11:55 PM
OK, so after having invested 28 years of my life to the mythology of Star Wars, and having to sit through the final 2:20 of the last installment about 10 times, I can honestly tell you all that there will forever be a place in my soul for this sextology.. forever.

jeffonthego
05-20-2005, 12:44 AM
It was everything I hoped it would be.

After waiting 22 years for this, since the end of ROTJ and the promise of prequels one day, we finally got to see the rise of Darth Vader.

I am only 32, but I can say in all seriousness that today I could die a happy man. While I have a well rounded life with lots going for me, if I had died before today, my last thought would have been a regret at not seeing this.

Today, despite George Lucas's failings these past few years, all is forgiven.

(Well, just about, release the original versions on DVD dammit!)

tagmac
05-20-2005, 01:03 AM
Just got back from seeing it again, and I have to admit, as cool as it was seeing Yoda behead the two clones on Kashyyk, I would have loved to have seen Chewie and Tarfful save him by literally tearing the clones apart. Looked like they were getting ready to then go blast some clones, which should have been included as well.

mastermatt24
05-20-2005, 02:30 AM
Damn. That was one hell of a ride!
Great job GL! My hats off to you! :D

Tycho
05-20-2005, 03:07 AM
After my 3rd viewing, I am really loving this movie!

It makes me want to watch the Classic Trilogy all over again - Owen and Beru with Luke on Tatooine, and Obi-Wan telling Luke about his father and "a certain point of view."


"Liar!"

"The Jedi are evil from my point of view!" - Anakin Skywalker: Revenge of the Sith

I also would have loved to see the look on Palpatine's face the minute he learned Luke destroyed his precious Death Star! I'm watching ANH right after I post!

BIG BARADA - what did you expect from this film? It was everything it was supposed to be.

2-1B
05-20-2005, 03:09 AM
Tycho, I saw it thrice on Opening Day as well and it gets better each time ! :)

Anakin really nailed those lines, didn't he ? lol Well done.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 04:41 AM
Well.....

It's still sinking in. Will see it again with the kids on Sunday afternoon, so I'm sure that the thoughts will have congealed a bit more by then. I'll leave myself an escape hatch and preface all of this by saying that they are my first impressions. Further thought and viewings may change any or all of this. :D

I found myself rather enjoying the opening sequence. The humor and dialogue were fitting and not forced. I actually really really liked Grievous. :) I wanted to see more of him. What I mean is, I thought he was an interesting character. The coughing was very intriguing. I want to know more about how he came to be this way. I almost wish that he had been the supervillain throughout the Prequels. Next to Obi Wan, he was the most interesting characters in the film. Oh well...

Once again, I loved Padme's new silver ship, just like the one that gets blown to smithereens in AOTC. Will Hasbro come through for us on this one? :sur:

The intercutting between action and the Ani/Padme relationship got highly annoying. Several of those moments could have been combined into one. And once again, most of that dialogue was stilted, though nothing could ever quite compare to that fireside chat in AOTC.

I found myself liking the way Palps reveals his true nature to Anakin. It seemed to make sense and Anakin's reaction seemed to be believable for the most part.

Something that really began to bother me smacked of Three's Company. Anakin is obviously having a problem with the Jedi Council because he isn't being promoted or used enough as far as he's concerned. And Ober's and everyone else on the Council seem to recognize this. So why the hell doesn't anybody just sit Ani down and tell him bluntly that he is being "held back" because of his youthful arrogance and lack of patience? I mean, it's all right there but nobody ever just comes out and says it. It's like one of those dumb sit-com plots where one character wanders into a misunderstanding and we watch the hijinx ensue. Only this time, the character decides to kill everybody. Pretty silly.

Ok, so Anakin essentially chooses to whack Mace because Palps promises the secret of saving lives to him. But almost as soon as Anakin pledges his loyalty, Palps hedges his words and says that they will figure it out together. Huh? :confused: Why didn't Anakin call him on that? This is the reason Anakin supposedly chooses one side over the other and Palps tells him afterward that he doesn't really know how to do it. That didn't jive with me.

On the same topic, Anakin's pledge to Palpatine. How ridiculous was that anyway? Out of nowhere, Anakin goes from being an almost reasonable, well, "human being," to becoming a monotone automaton. Where did that come from? And all this while Palps tells him that they'll figure this whole saving lives thing together. Huh? :confused:

Then, Anakin just blindly agrees to go slaughter the younglings? He just had a major internal conflict on whether killing Mace was the right thing to do and he instantly gives this robotic pledge then agrees to go murder a bunch of cute little kids. There was too little setup for this pivotal change in Anakin to be even remotely believable.

I thought that Ian rather overplayed the maniacal-ness once he becomes disfigured. I get that this is supposed to be modeled on cheeseball episodic serials, but his overacting those moments was out of place with his established character in the OT. I found it a little unsettling.

Padme dies because she loses the will to live? Do I really have to say any more about that? Being heartbroken over somebody you've lived with for 50 years is one thing. I personally know of at least a couple of instances where that has happened. But Padme inexplicably fell in love with a loser in the first place and now she is dying of a broken heart because he's all f'd up in the head now? Like she didn't see that coming. :rolleyes: But let's assume that she is that stupid and belongs on the Jerry Springer show. Why, praytell, doesn't she find reason to live after she gives birth to two babies? Is she that emotional depraved that she could feel no instant unconditional love for her own offspring? She comes off as more like one of those cold career women who also has some Springer-like attraction to broken men. Padme is a far more tragic figure than Anakin could ever hope to be. Tragic and stupid. She deserved to die. Stupid white trash b**ch.

Need I say again that Ober's taking Luke to live "with family" on Tatooine is perhaps one of the dumbest things somebody could possibly do. I know and you know that Vader doesn't go back home to visit mommie's grave, but Ober's has no way of knowing that he won't. So why would he hide this offspring who is undoubtedly chock full o' Midichlorians next to Shmi's grave? Makes no sense whatsoever.

And if that stuff wasn't enough, I'm sure I'll be accused of nitpicking with this one, but somebody please explain to me what exactly the point was of having Hayden don the suit? "Darth Vader" is a character who has always been played by at least two different people and in some cases, three. Prowse for the large body, Jones for the voice, and a swordmaster for the stunts and fighting. The Hayda-Vader version looked pretty ridiculous. It was obvious, at least to me, that this Vader didn't command the same large "presence" that a larger David Prowse did in the costume. Hayda-Vader was just too small. Why compromise on that pivotal imagery by not putting a suitable body inside the costume? Makes no sense.

I initially liked that Vader's rage begins crushing everything in the room. That part was cool, but it should have been left at that. The Frankenstein monster bit was pretty over-the-top and detracted from the moment. What should have been a scene that evoked sympathy from the audience turned into one that drew :rolleyes: and audible laughter instead. George and those homages. sigh. :ermm:

On the whole, this was 2.5 hours of big set pieces with very few actual plot points. The elements were interesting in and of themselves and oftentimes delightfully humorous. Some of the original unforced humor from the OT found its way back to the saga finally, namely in the R2 scenes. But with too little actual plot, there seems to be more in common with its predecessors than initially meets the eye.

After taking the day and sitting myself down to rewatch I and II, I went to see this with a group of 20. Just 2 out of the 20 had little to no problems with it. Most of the people were ambivalent to less than excited and one or two hated it. The audience, who had enthusiastically cheered at the LUCASFILM logo 2.5 hours ago, left the theater noticably less cheery. I don't get the sense that this movie will have the legs in the long run. Yeah, it's exciting in parts and as long as you ignore the nagging questions, the film moves along so fast that it is not unlike a roller coaster ride. Which leads us right back to where we started with these Prequels. Tasty, but nothing beyond empty calories. :ermm:

2-1B
05-20-2005, 05:45 AM
stillakid, you seem to have forgotten to mention Qui-Gonn. :crazed: :crazed: :crazed:

Ben left Anakin for dead so there's no point in worrying that he'll go to Shmi's grave. Sure he'll find out eventually that Vader lived but then again Yoda did tell him that the boy he trained was gone.

They should be more worried about Palpatine (just like Ben says in ROTJ) but Palps doesn't know the baby lived either so I don't think there's much of a danger there.

hango fett
05-20-2005, 07:30 AM
the one main thing i had a problem with is that ion the Obi vs Ani duel, you can't tell who is doing what most of the time, just see blue flashes going by really fast. the begging of the duel when anikan goes wild was awsome. how does he twirl that saber so fast??? Yoda had some good lines, thats for sure. in one of my viewings, everyone cheered when Yoda cut the 2 troopers heads off on Kashyyyk.
HF

JEDIpartner
05-20-2005, 11:05 AM
I thought the film was quite good. It's definitely the best of the prequels. I enjoyed the film through and through and thought even the acting had improved. My partner doesn't agree with me on that point but, oh well... he gets emotionally invested in Desperate Housewives... *shrug* I mean, the show's fun but, come ON!

Anyhow... I thought this was powerful stuff. It seemed like the pacing was pretty unrelenting. Thank goodness for the quiet scenes between Anakin and Palpatine. Those really rocked. Ian is amazing in this film. He stole it, hands down.

I, too, was a little bothered by some of Artoo's scenes. It did seem like he was moving a tad too quickly. I did like the parts where he was having issues with the volume of the comlink inthe hangar bay. That was kinda cute.

I also had a problem with how ridiculous the battle droids and super battle droids were in this film. They were silly in TPM, but their voices in this film were even sillier than before.

Ewan turned in a fine performance as Obi-Wan. He was charming and rather funny and carried the light comedy well. I loved the way he coyly said "hello there" when he jumped in on Grievous on Utapau.

Another fun moment came as Yoda entered Palpatine's chambers and took care of the red guards in such an easy manner. That got a big laugh from the crowd. I'm still not convinced about them using a CGI Yoda for every shot but then... I didn't much care for the use of the CGI Artoo in a lot of the shots either. There are some things you shouldn't mess with.

I'm very happy with the way this film turned out and will likely see it a second time next week. I'll just have to figure out at time when I can do that!!

General_Grievous
05-20-2005, 11:19 AM
One thing I'd like to point out is that if you thought the super battle droids and battle droids sounded stupid, the vulture droids sounded 100 times worse! It sounded like pygmy chanting! They were never that ridiculous in TPM.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 11:23 AM
stillakid, you seem to have forgotten to mention Qui-Gonn. :crazed: :crazed: :crazed:
His mention didn't really seem to affect the story anymore than his nonsensical inclusion into the saga already has, so I suppose there really isn't much to add about him that hasn't already been said. Though I will say this after having thought about it for a little bit...Yoda's dialogue with Obi at the end regarding Qui and immortality seemed VERY tacked on, like Lucas remembered at the last second that he needed to explain the ghost thing somehow. It didn't make a whole lot of sense and left me wanting to hear what that next sentence was going to be. It's like Lucas didn't know the method to immortality either so relied on suggestion to fill in that gap. Quite unsatisfying. I would have preferred that he just leave it alone altogether.


Ben left Anakin for dead so there's no point in worrying that he'll go to Shmi's grave. Sure he'll find out eventually that Vader lived but then again Yoda did tell him that the boy he trained was gone.

They should be more worried about Palpatine (just like Ben says in ROTJ) but Palps doesn't know the baby lived either so I don't think there's much of a danger there.
Sure, Ben does leave Crisp-akin for dead, but we know that he eventually learns his fate. So at that time, we should expect that he'd realize the potential danger and move Luke and himself to safer ground. But he doesn't as we see them both still there in IV. The problem remains.

JEDIpartner
05-20-2005, 11:31 AM
One thing I'd like to point out is that if you thought the super battle droids and battle droids sounded stupid, the vulture droids sounded 100 times worse! It sounded like pygmy chanting! They were never that ridiculous in TPM.

I don't even think they made a sound in TPM. They should have all just communicated through an unheard coded signal or something.

TheDarthVader
05-20-2005, 11:38 AM
I liked the movie! But...there were things I didn't like. Let me point them out. Many of my points have already been mentioned.

1. No Red Royal Guards in action? I wanted to see them fight.
2. The Vader "Nooooooo" shout. He should have just kept screaming. His scream should have blown palpy back.
3. Qui Gon not explaining how he became immortal.
4. No scene of the rebels planning the rebellion.
5. No lines for Tarkin.
6. No lines for Plo Koon. I wanted to hear what his voice sounded like.
7. No Yoda on Dagobah scene.
8. Greivous with that stupid cough.
9. Greivous' death. I would rather have seen a lightsaber kill him.
10. Yoda should have done a little better in his fight vs palpy.
11. Wookie battle scene...too short!
12. More jedi death scenes. There were many more killed, ie Eeth Koth, Barriss Offee, and more council members killed.
13. Aayla Secura death scene seemed a little dumb. Her fall was not convincing.
14. How did C-3P0 get his gold coverings???????????????
15. Palpy telling about his awesome plot...and mentions Sifo Dyas.


Well that is all I can think of right now. There were just some things that went unexplained.

B.
TDV

Bantha274
05-20-2005, 12:01 PM
I liked the movie! But...there were things I didn't like. Let me point them out. Many of my points have already been mentioned.

1. No Red Royal Guards in action? I wanted to see them fight.
2. The Vader "Nooooooo" shout. He should have just kept screaming. His scream should have blown palpy back.
3. Qui Gon not explaining how he became immortal.
4. No scene of the rebels planning the rebellion.
5. No lines for Tarkin.
6. No lines for Plo Koon. I wanted to hear what his voice sounded like.
7. No Yoda on Dagobah scene.
8. Greivous with that stupid cough.
9. Greivous' death. I would rather have seen a lightsaber kill him.
10. Yoda should have done a little better in his fight vs palpy.
11. Wookie battle scene...too short!
12. More jedi death scenes. There were many more killed, ie Eeth Koth, Barriss Offee, and more council members killed.
13. Aayla Secura death scene seemed a little dumb. Her fall was not convincing.
14. How did C-3P0 get his gold coverings???????????????
15. Palpy telling about his awesome plot...and mentions Sifo Dyas.


Well that is all I can think of right now. There were just some things that went unexplained.

B.
TDV

I thought the film was brilliant! But just as you said, there were a few issues I had with the film. But I'd like to respond to a few of your issues:

#1-7. I agree.
#8. Grievous' cough. If you watch the last episode of the Clone Wars cartoons (which Lucas has said is now considered canon and directly leads into the beginning of ROTS), you see Mace Windu use the force to partially crush Grievous' chest and choke him when Grievous is escaping from Coruscant. I think that's what caused Grievous' hacking cough and wheezing.
#9. I agree. Grievous went down WAY too easy.
#11. Agree. This was a bit of a let-down for me.
#14. This is also shown in the Clone Wars cartoons, to an extent.

My biggest issue with the film?
The fact that Padme doesn't even touch Leia before dieing. This just does not work. In ROTJ, Leia says she remembers her mother. There is no way this can be possible with the scene portrayed in ROTS. Padme looks at Leia, names her, and that's about it. It just doesn't fit into the continuity of the series. It's as if Lucas forgot what was said in ROTJ.

Other than these few issues, I loved the film and can't wait to see it again.
And again, and again, and, ... you get the point.lol

jedibear
05-20-2005, 12:19 PM
Some interesting thoughts being bandied about here...some of 'em make me wonder if ANYTHING would please some folks....


I'm on my way to my fourth showing...I love this movie. I'll refrain from a longer review til I have time to sort it out but...ROTS is an amazing end to this long journey...

More later...

stillakid
05-20-2005, 12:46 PM
Some interesting thoughts being bandied about here...some of 'em make me wonder if ANYTHING would please some folks.......

You know, a good, well thought out story would be a start. Why is that too much to ask? :sur:

bigbarada
05-20-2005, 12:47 PM
BIG BARADA - what did you expect from this film? It was everything it was supposed to be.

It was exactly what it needed to be: very dark and depressing. Lucas did a pretty good job in my mind portraying Anakin's fall, with only a few moments where Anakin seemed to progress into evil too far, too quickly (his initial pledge to Palpy after killing Mace would be the primary one).

Although I do think Lucas missed the potential of Anakin and Padme's secret marriage. The Jedi discovering their relationship and forbiding Anakin to see Padme ever again, or making veiled threats that Anakin could have taken as a possible danger to Padme, could have done wonders to help along Anakin's slide to the dark side. A missed opportunity on Lucas' part.

Most of what I posted yesterday was just my initial reaction after seeing the movie, getting two hours of sleep and going to work at 9 AM. I have a different appreciation for it now after getting a full nights sleep (only 32 years old and I'm already one of those crotchety old men who don't function if they miss their bedtime :) ). It's still not a movie I would watch more than a few times. It reminds me too much of those terribly depressing 1970s movies that ANH was such a refreshing departure from.

I took the time to actually watch ROTJ again last night and now I understand why Lucas felt the changes to Anakin's ghost needed to be made. I'm still not sure if I agree with the change, but it was kind of comforting to see the redeemed Hayden Christensen Anakin at the end of the film. Plus Vader comes off as a much more sympathetic character in ROTJ than I expected him to be.

So I guess Vader's evolution through the series could look like this:

Ep3: tortured monster
Ep4: pathetic bootlicker
Ep5: evil genius
Ep6: remorseful old man

Stillakid I wholeheartedly agree about the stupidity of Padme's death. What kind of a selfish witch is she that having two children is not enough of a reason to live?
:stupid:

Artoo was the big surprise in this movie and it was great seeing what he was truly capable of. It was also very interesting to note that he was a darkside droid for a short time on film.

Overall, very well done, but not my cup of tea. Definitely the best movie of the prequels though.

Tycho
05-20-2005, 01:12 PM
I agree with BigBarada on a lot of levels, especially with the kids being reason for Padme to want to live. I think had Anakin wounded her by accident in his argument with her on Mustafar, it would have been better if the life-death issue had been taken out of her character's hands.

As to Anakin pledging himself to the Sith Master?

I think what was downplayed was that Anakin just aided and abetted the murder of a leader of the High Council. Palpatine said that there would be reprocussions and that the Jedi would likely come there to kill them both.

Anakin might not have been able to believe what he'd done - he didn't KILL Mace - but he left Mace open to be killed. Thus to protect himself from prosecution, he figured the other solution was to kill all "the cops" so there'd be no one left to arrest him.

The Younglings had to be killed. It was sad and believe me it got me really mad at Anakin for doing it - but look at it this way: If they exiled the Younglings who only knew life in the temple - they'd have a whole group of combat trained kids mad at them for kicking them out of their home and a Rebellion would form from the Younglings - all of them who'd grow up into people resembling Luke Skywalker - a threat to the Empire. The Sith wanted to end the war. That was the quickest way.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 01:26 PM
IThe Younglings had to be killed. It was sad and believe me it got me really mad at Anakin for doing it - but look at it this way: If they exiled the Younglings who only knew life in the temple - they'd have a whole group of combat trained kids mad at them for kicking them out of their home and a Rebellion would form from the Younglings - all of them who'd grow up into people resembling Luke Skywalker - a threat to the Empire. The Sith wanted to end the war. That was the quickest way.

That's not the issue. Of course the Younglings had to go along with the rest of the Jedi. But it's the way it was done which is in question. In short, Anakin's pledge of loyalty, not unlike a lobotomized robot, comes way way way too quickly without plausible cause.

Had I been asked to write this, and I wasn't :( ;) , I would have had the Clone Army launch an attack on the Jedi Temple with the gunships, leveling it in the process while Anakin was sent out to "hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." Having the Jedi get unceremoniously shot by Clones was pretty anticlimatic. Supposedly Anakin HATES the Jedi and is ******** that they kept putting him off. He'd have FAR more believable motivation to go out and kill them than to calmly march into the Temple and slaughter those cute little kids. It didn't make any sense at all.

2-1B
05-20-2005, 01:28 PM
Sure, Ben does leave Crisp-akin for dead, but we know that he eventually learns his fate. So at that time, we should expect that he'd realize the potential danger and move Luke and himself to safer ground. But he doesn't as we see them both still there in IV. The problem remains.

What about Ben's belief that Anakin "died" when he became Darth Vader ? :confused:
Dead men don't return home to visit their mothers' graves.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 01:39 PM
What about Ben's belief that Anakin "died" when he became Darth Vader ? :confused:
Dead men don't return home to visit their mothers' graves.


Well, we're back to the reason why the OT and the Prequels will never match up. ;)



LUKE
Come with me.

VADER
Obi-Wan once thought as you do.

For starters, ROTS failed to illustrate the above. PADME is the one who still believes that there is good in Anakin. Obi writes Hayd-akin off pretty quickly.

But for the sake of argument, we'll assume that it did happen the way it should have. The above quote indicates that Obi initially thought that there was some hope for Anakin which indirectly implies that we should have seen Ani/Vader running around being bad for a while before the final lightsaber duel. This would have given Obi time to see Anakin running around being an all out bad guy but believe also that he might be able to "save" him from himself. I suppose we kind of get that with the holo projector, but that's really skirting the line.

But anyway, this still goes back to what is sold in AOTC and ROTS as the primary reason for Anakin's fall...that being Shmi's death. It was her demise that initially motivated Anakin to look for this holy grail of immortality. His search gains priority when he suspects that he'll need "it" to save Padme. So that being the case, even though "the good man who was your father was destroyed," it doesn't necessarily eliminate Vader-kins feelings for his mother. It is entirely logical that he would return to visit her grave at some point ESPECIALLY because there is still good in him. Again, we know that he doesn't, but Obi doesn't know that Vader-kin never will and to hide the galaxies "new hope" in the one place that Vader is likely to revisit is insanity.

nohagent
05-20-2005, 01:56 PM
Anakin is not Vader, the more I think of it the more I think that Vader is too cool, calculating, intelligent, and mature in an aspect that even as spoiled Anakin could gain some sense of maturity as he grew older but it would not be the same as Vader's disposition. The Hayden-Anakin-Vader would be more like the transformers Starscream character. That is of course if the Darkside is not a cure for spoiled whining adolescents.



Obi-Wan one thought as you do. That is because in episode 3 volume 2 Obi-Wan goes back to try and save Anakin from being Vader. Anyone who went to Celebration 3 heard Rick McCallum and Lucas make hint-hints of such a thing.



Episode 3 Volume 2

vadersvette
05-20-2005, 02:06 PM
Geez, doesn't anyone have anything good to say? I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am. :rolleyes:
I agree. I don't know what everyone's problem is! I thought the movie was amazing! I thought TPM & AOTC were really good, too. Oh well, people have to tear apart everything. Last year it was GWBush (and will always be), now its ROTS. GEEZ! :rolleyes: I don't even like coming on the forums anymore. :(

Tycho
05-20-2005, 02:45 PM
I loved ROTS and all the prequels actually. I think it's easier to list the things you don't like because there's less of them and virtually EVERYTHING else that you don't DISLIKE you actually DO LIKE. That being said, I probably enjoyed every minute of the film now after subsequent viewings. I think first impressions are great to post though, because it paints a very real picture of what less hardcore fans might see in the show - those that don't go back and see it multiple times.

Right now I'm into the whole General Grievous vs. General Kenobi fight. That whole sequence on Utopau was a lot of fun!

I still love Anakin with Palpatine in the opera. Great dialogue, intriguing mystery. Ian McDiarmid's a master actor!

Droid
05-20-2005, 03:13 PM
First, does anyone know what all the Sifo-Dyas stuff was about since it wasn't resolved (or mentioned) in Sith?

Second, WHAT IS THIS EPISODE III, VOLUME TWO business? Is there another version coming with more footage or is someone suggesting there is another film coming? What?

Casual George
05-20-2005, 04:03 PM
I have been a Star Wars fan since 1977! I really enjoyed Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. In my mind I really saw no way that I would be anything but thrilled with ROTS. I was stupefied! How could Lucas mess this up at the very end?!? Back in the mid-eighties while browsing at my local video store, I found a cool documentary. It’s called “From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga”. It’s a great behind the scenes look at the first trilogy. In that film Lucas talked about how that a special effect by itself is a pretty boring thing, you’ve got to have a good story. What happened to that philosophy? Basically that’s all Revenge of the Sith is… one big special effect. I read the making of Revenge of the Sith book and all through that production everyone was waiting on George to write the script. The art department began developing environments, creatures, space ships, etc. with out a script. Months go by, Lucas gave direction to McCallum and production designers on what sets they needed to build, but still no script. Somewhere around the beginning of 2003 George finally delivered a first draft. He admitted that it was full of “filler”. A few more drafts were completed before principal photography began in Sydney. The point is why would you begin production on a film without a completed script? I know it happens all the time in Hollywood but when it does those movies turn out to be awful. George spent a couple of years writing the original story of Star Wars. He spent over a year working on the script for Phantom Menace. With AOTC he didn’t write the script until the eleventh hour and it showed. Matters became more dire with Revenge of the Sith, he didn’t finish that script until shooting had begun and it looks like they just made it up as they went along.

The pacing of the first film (Phantom Menace) was very slow. In many ways I think Lucas should have advanced the plot more at that stage. Because he drug his feet so much with that story he had to make up a lot of ground in Attack of the Clones. The love story between Padme and Anakin was chief among plot devices that had to be advanced but ended up being executed very poorly. It would have been easier to have Padme and Anakin both fall for each other from the beginning and let the conflict and tension rise out of the circumstances of Anakin being a Jedi (forbidden to take a wife) and Padme as a Senator. Instead we got sort of a creepy stalker like relationship with Anakin practically forcing himself on Padme, with her rebuking his advances at every turn. It was never apparent that Padme felt anything more than friendship toward Anakin. Then, as there are being wheeled into the Geonosian area Padme pulls a 180 and totally falls for Anakin. It was forced, fake and unconvincing. He had two-thirds of the film to develop that romance and he wasted it. Look at Empire Strikes Back, the Han and Leia relationship was developed throughout the film and felt very real by the time we reached the Carbon Freeze Chamber. George could have done the same with Anakin and Padme so that when we came to ROTS no time has to be wasted on scenes that have to remind us that they love each other, we should be well aware of that by now.

The story is so weak in Sith that it’s difficult to care about anything that’s going on. Anakin’s turn to the dark side should have been powerful, gut-wrenching and tragic. Instead we get a very thin motivation for Anakin’s fall from grace. He wants to save Padme’s life, I’ll buy that. Palpatine says he can teach him the secret to cheating death, A-O.K., I’m still on board. Anakin betrays Mace in order to save Palpatine and thus save Padme from death, tragic and cool. Just after Anakin pledges himself to the dark side, Palpatine says something to the effect “well cheating death is a hard nut to crack but I’m sure that between the two of us we’ll figure something out”. What the hell does that mean? The whole reason Anakin protected Palpatine was that so he could learn the immortality thing and save Padme, now all of a sudden that’s out the window (just like Mace)! That’s hardly motivation enough to go to the Jedi Temple and KILL EVERYONE INCLUDING THE CHILDREN! He’s not a tragic figure, he’s a psychopath! By the time the final duel came about I was primed and ready for Obi-Wan to kick his butt, he completely deserved it.

Revenge of the Sith is so bloated and heavy with Lucas shoving every OT reference possible in to the film that it basically collapses under it’s own weight, total implosion. The film is at war with itself, it wants to be dark and serious, yet it is repeated derailed with the three stooge’s antics of R2-D2 and battle droids and the ridiculous cough/wheezing of General Grievous. Let’s talk about the General for moment. Most fans know that he was introduced in the Clone Wars animated series on Cartoon Network. This was done at the specific request of George Lucas and the last episode of Clone Wars: Volume 1 had to be quickly rewritten to fit Grievous into the story. Genndy Tartakovsky did a great job bringing him to life. Grievous was a light saber wielding, Jedi stomping, bad a**, worthy of all the hype that had been surrounding his character. What happened? In ROTS he can barely fight his was out of a paper sack and he’s hacking and coughing (I realize that Mace gave him a force crush on his rib cage armor, but come on, enough with the coughing.). He slinks out the back door and let’s his body guards do the fighting. I kept thinking he was going to unleash some serious butt kicking but he kept on running away. In the battle with Obi-Wan he doesn’t display half of the fighting skills we saw in Clone Wars, under whelming to say the least.

Yoda fighting Palpatine: started off strong, each one getting in some good licks and then Yoda just sort of gives up. He and Palpatine are both tired from battle but Palpatine pulls himself up and gets ready for the next round and Yoda scurries away like a scolded dog. Then when he gets picked up by Bail Organa he says “well I failed, into exile I must go.” What an awful, dreadful line. Why not just have him sit there, defeated looking and leave it at that, give Yoda the dignity to ponder this defeat quietly like the wise Jedi we came to know in TESB. We know he is going into exile but George insists on making him tells us.

The “birth of Vader” scene was the last straw. I think it’s the first time in my LIFE I’ve actually been embarrassed to be a Star Wars fan. Again, Lucas goes too far. That scene should have ended with the mask being lowered on to Anakin’s face. We didn’t need to see, no make that we shouldn’t have seen Vader stumbling off the slab like some half ***** Frankenstein’s monster and utter that weak cry of “Noooooooooooooooo.” What should have been one of the coolest, darkest moments in the movie suddenly transformed into a riff worthy of The Simpsons. Nuff said.

I could keep going but it’s making me tired and depressed. :cry:

I’m going to transfer my Original Trilogy non-special edition VHS tapes to DVD or pick up a copy of the Laser Discs on ebay and try to forget that Episode I, II and III ever happened. :dis:

JON9000
05-20-2005, 04:49 PM
The “birth of Vader” scene was the last straw. I think it’s the first time in my LIFE I’ve actually been embarrassed to be a Star Wars fan. Again, Lucas goes too far. That scene should have ended with the mask being lowered on to Anakin’s face. We didn’t need to see, no make that we shouldn’t have seen Vader stumbling off the slab like some half ***** Frankenstein’s monster and utter that weak cry of “Noooooooooooooooo.” What should have been one of the coolest, darkest moments in the movie suddenly transformed into a riff worthy of The Simpsons.
I thought it was worth it to see Vader get off the table and ask about Padme- just to hear the Emperor lie through his weasel teeth to make Vader hate Obi-wan more and hate himself, too. You can see the Emperor (if you watch him) respond gleefully to Vader's suffering. Man, the Emperor is a butt and I am even more glad Vader tosses him in ROTJ!

I think what we have here is a preconcieved notion of Vader as a simple hard case who doesn't have care about anything in the universe. Anything that runs contrary to that (especially after the mask goes on) runs contrary to what we cling to about the character. People do not like revisionism when it comes to icons, but to hear George tell it, this was the story all along- Anakin was a tragedy, not an inevitability.

If nothing else, reading these responses is interesting.

Droid
05-20-2005, 04:58 PM
The Emperor knows Padme is dead, but not that she had children. The funeral on Naboo was public; Palpatine is from Naboo. I think the Emerpor actually thought Anakin did kill Padme. What would he believe the truth to be if he thought he was lying?

basschick
05-20-2005, 05:12 PM
i've been thinking on this since episode 2. the other thing that amazed me was that anakin was entirely self-disciplined when he was at watto's and pod-racing but in ep2, he was a brat. in all my life, i've never seen one person with that kind of self-control lose it.

i guess some people think this is only nit-picking, but to me, character integrity is very important in movies.


Anakin is not Vader, the more I think of it the more I think that Vader is too cool, calculating, intelligent, and mature in an aspect that even as spoiled Anakin could gain some sense of maturity as he grew older but it would not be the same as Vader's disposition. The Hayden-Anakin-Vader would be more like the transformers Starscream character. That is of course if the Darkside is not a cure for spoiled whining adolescents.

so you only come to forums to read threads where EVERYONE agrees?


I agree. I don't know what everyone's problem is! I thought the movie was amazing! I thought TPM & AOTC were really good, too. Oh well, people have to tear apart everything. Last year it was GWBush (and will always be), now its ROTS. GEEZ! :rolleyes: I don't even like coming on the forums anymore. :(

stillakid
05-20-2005, 05:18 PM
The Emperor knows Padme is dead, but not that she had children. The funeral on Naboo was public; Palpatine is from Naboo. I think the Emerpor actually thought Anakin did kill Padme. What would he believe the truth to be if he thought he was lying?


I'll have to see it again to be sure of the order of things, but didn't that whole Vader-stein scene happen before or during the Padme "I hate my own children" death scene? :confused: And didn't Palpatine arrive to find Anakin after Obi took off? So how does Palps even really know that Padme was there in the first place? :confused: And if he knew that much, how did he know that Anakin pulled a Motti on her? And if he knew that much, how would he know that she died from it? Because if he knew that much, he would also be aware that she was alive for some time.

Perplexing....

darko666
05-20-2005, 05:28 PM
The Emperor knows Padme is dead, but not that she had children.

it's strange how the Emperor doesn't find out that she was even pregnant. you would think that Vader would ask if anything happened to the child. but i guess we are supposed to assume the Vader thinks the child is dead along with Padme.

nohagent
05-20-2005, 07:28 PM
Second, WHAT IS THIS EPISODE III, VOLUME TWO business? Is there another version coming with more footage or is someone suggesting there is another film coming? What?


Rick McCallum said no episodes 7,8, and 9, but quite possible Episode 3 Volume two (the Vader years), George Lucas also hinted to this at Celebration 3.

jjreason
05-20-2005, 07:52 PM
I would suspect that they were hinting at what the fodder for the TV series might be, as opposed to what might constitute the makings of another movie.

The 'Xir
05-20-2005, 08:07 PM
OK! So I've been holding back, and now I've seen it again last night so...

It was cool and I enjoyed it more the second time around, but I don't know if I'm refusing to admit that it's over or I don't know what, but I really didn't like this film! I'm pizzed actually! I feel after being a devoted fan since the begining in '77, that we deserve more!
This is NOT the story that the OT laid ground work for! As I said I don't know if it's that I'm refusing to admit that it's over or maybe because I pretty much knew everything going into it and still expected more out of it or something, but I had NO emotional response to this film at all! NONE! And I'm probably one of the more emotional guys you'd ever meet on these forums! I'm definitily the sort to wear my emotions on my sleve, and the only emotion I felt comming out of the theatre is a feeling of being cheated! Robbed even! Robbed of a story that I grew up with and I've known and wanted to see my entire life! It flat out betrayed the OT and I don't like it!!! I should be feeling awe struck, I should be crying, I should be saying HELL YEAH!!! and now all I'm left with is a feeling of...This is it? It's over? WHERE'S MY STORY GEORGE?!, WHERE'S OUR STORY?!!! The one you started to tell way back when, the one we grew up on, the one that is the reason we're all here! It's not on screen that's for sure!
I condem Episode II because that's where the turn for the worst really started! EpIII did it's best to recover from EpII's disaster, but we still have questions, and that's not cool! :dis:
Just so this doesn't get too long, I'll post a seperate post of what I liked and didn't like, about epIII!

El Chuxter
05-20-2005, 08:15 PM
I really, really wanted to post an in-depth discussion of why this is the first SW film I've hated, but I'm running short on time and this is the Readers' Digest version:

First, I have to say the story in and of itself was excellent. The pacing and direction were pathetic, however. Every single character who died did so with no dignity. I wonder what exactly qualifies one to be a Jedi Master. The ability to tie your own shoes? Seriously, if these are supposed to be the defenders of peace and justice, who are they actually capable of defending those ideals against? Of all the seven "minor" Jedi Masters we've seen in other films who die onscreen, only Ki-Adi gets so much as one block in!

Not to mention Nute Gunray. The guy's a villain for three movies. I don't care what a worm he is, give him a proper death scene.

Ewan, Hayden, Jimmy, Frank, and Ian did phenomenal jobs. I absolutely love Natalie and Samuel and think they're two of the best actors around, but this was the worst performance for each of them. Natalie was nominated for an Oscar last year. Could she put some damned emotion into the role? She was absolutely not believable for me. At least not as anything other than a whiny kid who needs the snot slapped out of her.

Christopher Lee may or may not have done a good job. I really couldn't tell. I happened to blink during his appearance and only saw the horribly bad CG model.

All of the CG aside from General Grievous was crap, pure and simple. The beginning looked like a cut scene from an NES game, and I wanted to vomit during every scene of Clonetroopers without their helmets. These guys invented CG effects; I expect more from them. One or two bad shots are forgiveable, but two hours straight of CG so bad it actually detracts from the story?

That said, General Grievous takes the crown from the Hulk as the most believable CG character ever.

I thought Vader was bad with the "NOOOOO!" but Palpatine was one billion times worse with, "No, no, nooooo!!" He sounded like Starscream on helium. And the melting business was absolutely stupid.

The ending should have been thoroughly heart-wrenching. Aside from a minor twinge of emotion when the camera zeroes in on the japor carving during the funeral, I felt nothing. And I'm not embarassed to say that I still cry like a little girl whenever I see Qui-Gon, Shmi, Yoda, and Vader die. This was frigging Padme, and it was so poorly executed that I felt absolutely nothing aside from anger that I'd spent $19 on two tickets!

I wanted to drive up to Skywalker Ranch Thursday morning after the absolutely unnecessary and stupid "Frankenstein" scene and kick George in the groin. I could (barely) live with Anakin crying every five minutes, but once the armor goes on, it should end. Vader sounding like he's crying under the mask completely ruins the Original Trilogy!!!! :mad:

As I wrote to a friend earlier:

I now feel as though there is no prequel trilogy at all, as there's no payoff.

From this point forward, I shall believe that George Lucas went insane following the dismal failure of Howard the Duck and never produced his promised prequels. However, using his notes, Del Rey hired Terry Brooks, R A Salvatore, and Matthew Stover to write novels that would replace the missing films.

Say what you will about novels being canon. This is fiction, I'm the viewer/reader, and I can decide for my own self what's right and wrong. And this film was just plain wrong.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 08:25 PM
Say what you will about novels being canon. This is fiction, I'm the viewer/reader, and I can decide for my own self what's right and wrong. And this film was just plain wrong.

Do what I did and think of all of this as Expanded Universe material...really really expensive Expanded Universe material. It doesn't have to match the established continuity in any way nor does it have to be good. Like an amateur fan film, it's all about the "moments" and being able to suck it up during the bridging parts from one set piece to the next. :)

James Boba Fettfield
05-20-2005, 08:44 PM
Uh oh, stillakid's taking on an apprentice! :sur:

The 'Xir
05-20-2005, 09:36 PM
What I liked:
Opening scene!!!- drums were cool!
-Effects were amazing!
-"Camera" angles were superb!
The levity was good to have, but there's parts about it I didn't like, but It was cool that it was in there!
Best scene: Was the 'Padme's ruminations' scene! Anakin soul searching, and then the two of them staring out their respective windows upon the Coruscant skyline, like they were looking right at each other! Very well done! Music matched great too!
Loved seeing the wookies! It was cool to see the technology aspect of Kashyyyk! Something I never really thought about before(always assumed it was like Endor), but was pleasently suprised and thought, "Oh yeah, that makes sense!"
ummmm... That's really all I can think of right about now! Like I said I wasn't too impressed/pleased!

What I didn't like:(does SSG really have enough capacity to hold all this) ;) Hated..:

Too much CG!!! Almost as bad if not worse than the Podrace aliens in EpI! What was up with R2? He looked horrible, cathing the communicator like a dog, and what the hell was that thing where he kept bouncing around, and poping out of Anakins starfighter and all! All I could think of was that my Pop-Tarts were done! :rolleyes: He doesn't act like that, it was stupid!
As I stated I liked the levity in RotS, reminded me of ESB, but what was up with Ewan's cheesy-*** looks he had on his face! They totaly did not coincide with any of his behavior up to this piont in the prequels! He all of a sudden became Anakin, it made him look cocky, brash, and arrogant, and not fitting to the character at all, especially in such a serious time within the prequels!
What was up with Ian's facial expressions as well? Overall he did a pretty good job(mainly as Sidious), but some of his facial expressions where just perplexingly odd! His "Yes!", when cheering on Anakin against Dooku, was bad! Also, when Ben and Ani start fighting Grievous's body guards after benig captured, the Fed droids back Palpatine up away from the meleee and he's got this cheesy look on his face! I think he was trying to portray a sense that his binders/handcuffs were hurting him, but it just looked dumb! And I don't know, there was just dumb stuff like that throughout the movie that Palpatine did that caught my attention!
Lucas started out in the biz as an Editor right?! Well guess what that was the worst thing about this movie! He had so much to get in to this movie, all the scenes came across like, next, next, next, next, wait..ok next, next, next..! :rolleyes:
I also didn't like Anakins fall to the darkside! The love aspect was the only thing that fortified it(and really the only reason he did) Palps lie about the Jedi's betrayl didn't play out as well as it could have! The reasoning behind alot of why Anakin should turn wasn't fleshed out enough! Dialogue from script/book wasn't used, in the Opera/Legacy of Darth Plaqueis scene, as well as it was in the script/book to explain how and why Palps knew so much about the Darkside! Also, I din't like how Anakin expresses remorse for Maces death, and then just willingly submits to Sidious after the fact! I don't think there was enough substance there building/leading up to that, and it made it look like Anakin just pulled a, oh ok I guess I've done a bad thing so I guess I have to join the darkside now! And don't get me wrong, I think his reasoning to stop Mace was well played out and justified(needing Sidious to save Padme), but that not being enough to just willfully submit himself to Sidious! I know this thinking doesn't help Anakins fall to the darkside either but I was thinking about how Sidious even admits to Yoda that Vader will be more powerful than either one of them, so if Anakin has so much power why didn't he just arrest Sidious himself after he killed Mace! Unless it was an act, Sidious was weak, and he had just killed 4 Jedi! Anakin could have arrested him(keeping him alive) and told everyone how he was the Sith Lord they were looking for and he should be charged for murder of the deaths of 4 Jedi, and no one would be the wiser!
Something else I didn't like that has always been faithful before, was John Williams' music, and not the music itself, because It was great, but how the music was used within the film! Key moments when the music should be swelling and building with traditional themes, just had light or no music at all and relied solely on (GL written) Dialouge! A main reason why I think I had little emotional response to this film!
OK the Big one... How the HELL DOES LEIA REMEMBER HER MOTHER AND LUKE DOESN'T! The Force, I know fine! BUT! Lukes born first, and is given to Obi-Wan and is held right infront of his mother the whole time Leia is being born, and Leia is just flashed once before her mother enough time for her to name her and that's it? So are we to believe that Leia is stonger in the force than her brother! I really don't like this at all, but all George had to do was have Leia be born first, and have Padme hold her during or shortly after Lukes' birth, and than have them both wisked away with Luke only being shown long enough for his mother to name him, and this would have been enough to satisfy my need for closure on this part of the story, but the way it was done, just leaves a whole mess of questions out on the emergency room floor! :rolleyes: :stupid: :speech:
Also I didn't like how there wasn't any dialogue at the end when Ben hands Luke over to the Lars! I wish Ben and Beru had exchanged pleasentries(remember none of them have ever met before on screen), and then I think it would have made sense for Owen to come in and snatch Luke out of Bens hands, and abruptly shuffle him and his wife away from Obi-Wan, possibly saying something like,"Go away! He'll be safe with us and without any of your Jedi hypocracy" Then have Ben bow his head in shame and regret. Then turn to leave and then turn back to see Owen, Beru, and luke looking off in to the twin sunset, back to Ben now revealing a pleased smile knowing Luke will be loved!

There's a ton of other things I didn't like about this movie, but I don't want to ramble too long, just get a couple key points out! I'm sure I think of others I've missed though! :dis:

The 'Xir
05-20-2005, 09:56 PM
OK, speaking of, I just remembered something else! I know you'll alll probably kill me but really...What about Jar Jar? Here Lucas has written this(starts off as a) Major character into his story, and gives him no closure?!!! This goes against all good writting skills that even a 2 year old can understand! We can't even assume now that he is on Alderaan when it gets blown up! He and the rest of the Gungans just live out there lives on Naboo I guess!
I don't care how much you hated him, this is just wrong! He deserves closure, and it can't be done on some tv series, or in books or EU, it has to be done with in the story you have put on screen!!!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR George sucks!
Mesa stopping now!

jedibear
05-20-2005, 10:19 PM
Well...an interesting group of opinions here. Sad to see so many folks who've been around here so long coming away displeased... Everybody's got a right to their view so here's mine...

I'll admit...when I sat down for that first showing at midnight, it was work on my part to put aside expectations created from spoilers (yeah, nobody made me look), other media interpretations of the story (the well-written book, the not-so-successful comic, the finely-crafted behind-the-scenes tomes' and the other assorted materails that I assaulted my senses with before that evening) that again, no one forced me to read or view ahead of time.
And for that first viewing, I wasn't entirely successful at that. There were scenes I heard about through spoilers that were missing that upset me a bit, there were different takes on certain events (mostly the methods of some charaters' fates) that were jarring. But I remember the same sort of thing happening for the previous two films so as hard as it was, I stayed away from forming an opinion until I could see it once and get PAST those expectations to appreciate the movie AS IT IS instead of what I read or heard it would be. Despite all that, as the credits rolled after that first viewing I knew I LIKED what I saw and would be back to see it again and really appreciate it for what it is.

And now I've seen it a total of four times and I've decided I REALLY LIKE THIS FILM. It was filled with emotion for me...and not just the major points of the story either...for example, that last goodbye between Anakin & Obi-Wan as he leaves for Utapau. Knowing it was the last time these two would look on one another as friends brought a lump in my throat and watching Hayden's face go through several emotions after Kenobi walks away was...just amazing. And that was just one of many for me....
Not only does it work as a chapter of the larger story for me but it was filled with new little moments that none of the other movies in this series has done.
I'm a visual artist. If I feel one main kinship with Lucas watching these films, it's a total appreciation for his visual sense and how he uses design, colour, light and shapes to tell his story. They are as significant a factor to me as William's wonderful score or the performances by the actors. And ROTS totally moves to the front of the pack with what Lucas achieves here.
Another major componant of the movie that shines for me is that everyone, from actors to animators to artists, rose to the occasion that this chapter would be the most signifigant to people...weather they were fans since those first summer nights of '77 or they came onboard via well-worn VHS's throughout the '80s & '90s or only recently joined the saga via the prequels. Everything strained with the effort, from the scenes virtually overflowing with detail to the actors making the extra effort in their performances (there were moments with McGregor where his efforts to bridge his performance with Guiness were sublime) to Williams expanding his musical palette into moody tones never before heard in a SW film. Even Lucas seemed to connect more here, trying a few things that were new to SW to great effect.
Touching for a moment on all that "expanded universe" stuff...another nice touch was Lucas hitting a few moments that stemmed from those sources. It was great for this comics fan to hear Obi-Wan mention Quinlan Vos. It was a cool touch to have Greivous coughing throughout the movie as a result of his bashing with Mace in the CW shorts. Moments that may not have made an impact with the casual viewer, but were great for some fans. It also made Order 66 even more poignant that it featured the demise of characters featured so promenantly in other media.
Now I'll pause here and give other folks a chance to chime in (and get my asbestos jammies on before I'm roasted alive by some I'm sure) and then come back later to share moments that really stood out in the film to me...

darthvyn
05-20-2005, 10:38 PM
OK, speaking of, I just remembered something else! I know you'll alll probably kill me but really...What about Jar Jar? Here Lucas has written this(starts off as a) Major character into his story, and gives him no closure?!!! This goes against all good writting skills that even a 2 year old can understand! We can't even assume now that he is on Alderaan when it gets blown up! He and the rest of the Gungans just live out there lives on Naboo I guess!
I don't care how much you hated him, this is just wrong! He deserves closure, and it can't be done on some tv series, or in books or EU, it has to be done with in the story you have put on screen!!!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR George sucks!
Mesa stopping now!

so, then what happened to chewie and wedge at the end of the OT? oh, i guess they just lived on endor for the rest of their lives... jar jar's whole purpose of being (aside from the physical "comedy") was to sway the vote in favor of palpatine's emergency powers and inadvertently create the empire. his story was over then.

TheDarthVader
05-20-2005, 10:51 PM
so, then what happened to chewie and wedge at the end of the OT? oh, i guess they just lived on endor for the rest of their lives... jar jar's whole purpose of being (aside from the physical "comedy") was to sway the vote in favor of palpatine's emergency powers and inadvertently create the empire. his story was over then.

I totally agree. Jar Jar's story was definitely over.

B.
TDV

Mr. JabbaJohnL
05-20-2005, 11:24 PM
What's with all the hate? I suppose that since a lot of you have had this story in your head for 28 years, it would be impossible to love this film. That said . . .

I LOVE THIS FILM!!! Seriously, this has got to be the saddest movie I've ever seen! I honestly felt like crying on several occasions when I saw this, and my eyes were red afterwards . . . actually, they're still red, and it's been over a day. I also felt like crying when there were some "Holy crap!" scenes. Sure, the fighting was great and all, but the interactions between the characters was the best out of any SW film, IMO. Here's a list of all the awe-inspiring scenes:
*Sidious's reveal to Mace and the duel - I really wanted Mace to just lower that damn lightsaber and cut that old bastard in half! His reaction to Anakin cutting off his arm was pretty much the same one I had.
*The naming of DARTH FREAKIN' VADER - Come on! God, this was amazing, simply hearing Vader's name spoken for the "first time."
*Anakin killing the Padawans - When that little kid asks what to do then backs up from the saber, that really freaked me out.
*Order 66 - I thought that "Order 66" was the legion of troopers that Anakin led into the temple, so I was surprised to hear it used the way it was. But anyway, seeing those poor Jedi get taken out all of a sudden by their trusted clones was heartbreaking, especially for Ki-Adi-Mundi and the sad look on his face.
*Obi-Wan leaving Vader - His speech made me really sad and feel bad for him, that he lost his brother and how he loved Anakin.
*Birth of Vader - Seeing Vader writhe in pain when they were operating on him was really freaky. Him breathing for the first time as Vader was too damn cool.
*Birth of the twins - This was probably my favorite part. I was glad to find out that neither Anakin or Padmé knew beforehand that there were twins, and that adds a new layer to the OT. When she named the kids, it almost made me break out into tears simply because of what was going on. When their themes played, that was absolutely perfect. And I loved the juxtaposition of the deaths of Padmé and Anakin and the births of Vader, Luke, and Leia was simply amazing.
*Padmé's funeral - I was glad to see her family, the new queen, Boss Nass, Jar Jar, and Sio Bibble in the procession, but seeing the japor snippet necklace in her hands was really emotional.
*Luke being given to Owen and Beru - That was a great way to end the film, and done really well. I loved how they looked out at the suns at the end and the music from ANH played.

However, I really hated the droids' new, extremely annoying voices. What happened to the guy who did them in TPM and AOTC? I really hope they fix that for the DVD. Also, it was too bad that Grievous suffered from Darth Maul-itis, the disease that introduces a really new character and only shows him for five minutes. At least Jango played a more important part.

All in all, though, it's by far my favorite SW film, and therefore, my favorite movie, ever. But I'm really sad that it's all over now. :cry:

Mad Slanted Powers
05-20-2005, 11:47 PM
Saw it again for the second time today. This time I think I did notice Mon Mothma when they were returning from rescuing Palpatine. I didn't notice her in the close-ups, but as the ship was approaching and you could see the senators and others gathered there, I noticed a woman in white that looked a bit like the action figure. I also noticed Jar Jar there, or a similar looking Gungan. I had only noticed him at the funeral the first time. Now I see him in this scene and in the senate scene.

The first time through, I will have to agree with stillakid and say that Anakin pledging himself to Palpatine the way he did didn't fit right. He went from saying "What have I done?" to sounding like a hypnotized drone. However, on the second viewing, it sounded less like a hypnotized drone and more like someone who was reluctantly entering into a pact with the Devil. He knows it is probably wrong, but he has to do it to save Padmé. Plus, if you consider the events leading up to it and events afterward, it makes a bit more sense. For one thing, why did he rush there? Was it to help Mace or to help Palpatine? I think the preceding scene of Anakin and Padmé indicate that he went there to be sure Palpatine survived so he could help Padmé.

Imperial Monarche
05-21-2005, 12:04 AM
What I liked:
Opening scene!!!- drums were cool!
-Effects were amazing!
-"Camera" angles were superb!
The levity was good to have, but there's parts about it I didn't like, but It was cool that it was in there!
Best scene: Was the 'Padme's ruminations' scene! Anakin soul searching, and then the two of them staring out their respective windows upon the Coruscant skyline, like they were looking right at each other! Very well done! Music matched great too!
Loved seeing the wookies! It was cool to see the technology aspect of Kashyyyk! Something I never really thought about before(always assumed it was like Endor), but was pleasently suprised and thought, "Oh yeah, that makes sense!"
ummmm... That's really all I can think of right about now! Like I said I wasn't too impressed/pleased!

What I didn't like:(does SSG really have enough capacity to hold all this) ;) Hated..:

Too much CG!!! Almost as bad if not worse than the Podrace aliens in EpI! What was up with R2? He looked horrible, cathing the communicator like a dog, and what the hell was that thing where he kept bouncing around, and poping out of Anakins starfighter and all! All I could think of was that my Pop-Tarts were done! :rolleyes: He doesn't act like that, it was stupid!
As I stated I liked the levity in RotS, reminded me of ESB, but what was up with Ewan's cheesy-*** looks he had on his face! They totaly did not coincide with any of his behavior up to this piont in the prequels! He all of a sudden became Anakin, it made him look cocky, brash, and arrogant, and not fitting to the character at all, especially in such a serious time within the prequels!
What was up with Ian's facial expressions as well? Overall he did a pretty good job(mainly as Sidious), but some of his facial expressions where just perplexingly odd! His "Yes!", when cheering on Anakin against Dooku, was bad! Also, when Ben and Ani start fighting Grievous's body guards after benig captured, the Fed droids back Palpatine up away from the meleee and he's got this cheesy look on his face! I think he was trying to portray a sense that his binders/handcuffs were hurting him, but it just looked dumb! And I don't know, there was just dumb stuff like that throughout the movie that Palpatine did that caught my attention!
Lucas started out in the biz as an Editor right?! Well guess what that was the worst thing about this movie! He had so much to get in to this movie, all the scenes came across like, next, next, next, next, wait..ok next, next, next..! :rolleyes:
I also didn't like Anakins fall to the darkside! The love aspect was the only thing that fortified it(and really the only reason he did) Palps lie about the Jedi's betrayl didn't play out as well as it could have! The reasoning behind alot of why Anakin should turn wasn't fleshed out enough! Dialogue from script/book wasn't used, in the Opera/Legacy of Darth Plaqueis scene, as well as it was in the script/book to explain how and why Palps knew so much about the Darkside! Also, I din't like how Anakin expresses remorse for Maces death, and then just willingly submits to Sidious after the fact! I don't think there was enough substance there building/leading up to that, and it made it look like Anakin just pulled a, oh ok I guess I've done a bad thing so I guess I have to join the darkside now! And don't get me wrong, I think his reasoning to stop Mace was well played out and justified(needing Sidious to save Padme), but that not being enough to just willfully submit himself to Sidious! I know this thinking doesn't help Anakins fall to the darkside either but I was thinking about how Sidious even admits to Yoda that Vader will be more powerful than either one of them, so if Anakin has so much power why didn't he just arrest Sidious himself after he killed Mace! Unless it was an act, Sidious was weak, and he had just killed 4 Jedi! Anakin could have arrested him(keeping him alive) and told everyone how he was the Sith Lord they were looking for and he should be charged for murder of the deaths of 4 Jedi, and no one would be the wiser!
Something else I didn't like that has always been faithful before, was John Williams' music, and not the music itself, because It was great, but how the music was used within the film! Key moments when the music should be swelling and building with traditional themes, just had light or no music at all and relied solely on (GL written) Dialouge! A main reason why I think I had little emotional response to this film!
OK the Big one... How the HELL DOES LEIA REMEMBER HER MOTHER AND LUKE DOESN'T! The Force, I know fine! BUT! Lukes born first, and is given to Obi-Wan and is held right infront of his mother the whole time Leia is being born, and Leia is just flashed once before her mother enough time for her to name her and that's it? So are we to believe that Leia is stonger in the force than her brother! I really don't like this at all, but all George had to do was have Leia be born first, and have Padme hold her during or shortly after Lukes' birth, and than have them both wisked away with Luke only being shown long enough for his mother to name him, and this would have been enough to satisfy my need for closure on this part of the story, but the way it was done, just leaves a whole mess of questions out on the emergency room floor! :rolleyes: :stupid: :speech:
Also I didn't like how there wasn't any dialogue at the end when Ben hands Luke over to the Lars! I wish Ben and Beru had exchanged pleasentries(remember none of them have ever met before on screen), and then I think it would have made sense for Owen to come in and snatch Luke out of Bens hands, and abruptly shuffle him and his wife away from Obi-Wan, possibly saying something like,"Go away! He'll be safe with us and without any of your Jedi hypocracy" Then have Ben bow his head in shame and regret. Then turn to leave and then turn back to see Owen, Beru, and luke looking off in to the twin sunset, back to Ben now revealing a pleased smile knowing Luke will be loved!

There's a ton of other things I didn't like about this movie, but I don't want to ramble too long, just get a couple key points out! I'm sure I think of others I've missed though! :dis:

I'm glad you didn't make the movie then. This movie flowed exactly as the OT did. It had the action and it had the perfect storyline to go with it. The editing was great, the dialogue was better than the other two and so was the acting. People have complained too much about Leia's comment of knowing her mother and then expected to see Padme holding her longer than Luke or whatever which is bull. Leia is of an adopted family, but who says she actually knows that. She could be refering to mommy Organa, thinking that she was her real mother that died. Or, have you ever had a memory about your childhood you could swear you remember but you just remember what your parents have told you. Bail and wife could have just told Leia about Padme and she thinks she remembers. You guys just need to get off that complaint train now.

jjreason
05-21-2005, 12:23 AM
I really, really wanted to post an in-depth discussion of why this is the first SW film I've hated, but I'm running short on time and this is the Readers' Digest version:

...... Of all the seven "minor" Jedi Masters we've seen in other films who die onscreen, only Ki-Adi gets so much as one block in!

The onscreen deaths of the Action Figure worthy Jedi Masters worked for me. I didn't mind the fact that they weren't blocking blaster bolts like mad because it would have just been prolonging the inevitable. I thought the emotions on the faces of the Jedi being killed - particularly Aayla - were nearly perfect: a quick look of shock, followed by realization of what was happening, followed by the enhanced realization that they didn't stand a chance. That whole "Order 66" sequence broke my heart over and over again.



I absolutely love Natalie and Samuel and think they're two of the best actors around, but this was the worst performance for each of them. Natalie was nominated for an Oscar last year. Could she put some damned emotion into the role? She was absolutely not believable for me. At least not as anything other than a whiny kid who needs the snot slapped out of her.

Well, she got a good ol' force choking instead - that being said, violence against women and children are touchy subjects at best, my kids won't be going to this show.

I thought Samuel Jackson was fine as Mace Windu here. No real departure from what we'd seen already, other than the murderous rage he displayed when trying to decide what to do with Palpatine..... which worked just fine for me.



All of the CG aside from General Grievous was crap, pure and simple. The beginning looked like a cut scene from an NES game, and I wanted to vomit during every scene of Clonetroopers without their helmets. These guys invented CG effects; I expect more from them. One or two bad shots are forgiveable, but two hours straight of CG so bad it actually detracts from the story?

Another reason why I'm happy that I can't really see how "bad" or "good" cgi is most of the time. In certain spots it's apparent - bad, I guess, from a certain point of view - but I've kind of gotten used to that happening in fantasy movies nowadays. I didn't find ROTS to be as badly afflicted by noticeable cg stuff as EpII seemed to be.



I thought Vader was bad with the "NOOOOO!" but Palpatine was one billion times worse with, "No, no, nooooo!!" He sounded like Starscream on helium. And the melting business was absolutely stupid.

Do you mean Palpatine cowering before Mace Windu? To me it was ridiculous as well, but purposefully done. He was doing all he could to trigger sympathy from Anakin, who was obviously having a terrible time deciding what to do. I think Anakin's breaking point was the realization that he'd played a role in Mace's death - and I don't think he intended for Mace dying to be the final result. My take on it was that he was trying to stop Mace from murdering Palpatine - and justifiably so. When he "disarmed" Mace (sorry) I don't think Ani was expecting Palpatine to blast him again. Once Mace was gone, Anakin sees that he's finally gone too far - and that there's nothing left to anchor him to the light. The door has been cast wide open by that particular event - and he walks through it.


The ending should have been thoroughly heart-wrenching. Aside from a minor twinge of emotion when the camera zeroes in on the japor carving during the funeral, I felt nothing. And I'm not embarassed to say that I still cry like a little girl whenever I see Qui-Gon, Shmi, Yoda, and Vader die. This was frigging Padme, and it was so poorly executed that I felt absolutely nothing aside from anger that I'd spent $19 on two tickets!

The ending to me seemed a little rushed, but I need to see it again - many more times - to make my final judgement. Padme's funeral didn't trigger anything in me either, likely because I didn't have any great affinity for her throughout the whole arc of stories. The very ending, with Luke winding up on Tatooine with the Whitesuns seemed to fit fine upon first glance. I hated the fact that I'd been spoilerized to that sequence more than any of the others - of which there weren't many. I felt completely in the dark once Dooku had been murdered.

Of all the scenes in ROTS, the one I liked the least was Vader coming off the table. If he had only just bowed his head in silence, or possibly said "strange that I feel nothing" in response to finding out she was dead, it would have been perfect.

The emotional stuff for me was the Order 66 sequence, and Yoda telling Bail Organa he's failed, that had me absolutely choked up.


Vader sounding like he's crying under the mask completely ruins the Original Trilogy!!!!

Oh man, that's a strong sentiment. It's really sad that you feel that way. I thought the ending did an adequate job of setting things up for the OT - or for whatever other means are used to continue bridging the gap between the trilogies. I liked seeing the Imperial uniforms and Vader on board the destroyer. I liked seeing Tarkin as well, but wasn't satisfied with him not saying anything. He needed a line to justify his figure as far as I'm concerned. :)

I would be greatly excited to hear that the DVD version was going to contain an extra 30 minutes of footage - a la the deluxe LOTR versions - as I'd like to see a few scenes that I'm sure were shot (deaths of Shaak Ti, Lumiara, Barriss, Yoda on the bug, any lines Tarkin may have had, more from Dooku, etc). I think that would go a long way toward satisfying a large number of the complaints that I've read about the movie.

All in all, I think ROTS will rank as the best of the PT movies once I've seen it enough to decide. I don't remember being perfectly happy with Empire when I first saw it 25 years ago due to the loose ends that came along with it, but looking back it certainly was the high water mark of the OT - and by quite some margin.

Oh, and for anyone besides Ol' Chux that reads this reply this far - please don't think I'm picking on him. He and I have had a really good online conversation going for the last few months leading up to this movie (he gave me the final boost of encouragement I needed to stay spoiler-free), and I wanted to reply in particular to the points that he made. :beard:

The 'Xir
05-21-2005, 02:04 AM
so, then what happened to chewie and wedge at the end of the OT? oh, i guess they just lived on endor for the rest of their lives... jar jar's whole purpose of being (aside from the physical "comedy") was to sway the vote in favor of palpatine's emergency powers and inadvertently create the empire. his story was over then.

Dude, it's the end of the saga, the rebels won, freedom is restored, the whole point is to assume they ALL live happily ever after!

But, with characters like Jar Jar, who play a major role then don't really do anything there after, and are never mentioned again during the course of three more films, just goes toatlly against convention! Ex) Boba Fett - in the prequels, has closure(death) in OT! Problem with Boba Fett though in the prequels he has no real purpose to be there, which obviously doesn't translate well over to the OT! Another thing I hated about EpIII! If they had just given him a small cameo, fighting wookies or something we could draw a small but atleast some conclusion as to why he has pelts on his belt, and maybe why he is more determined to capture Han and Chewie than the others!

2-1B
05-21-2005, 02:16 AM
Two things, Xir:

How many people even know that Boba has those pelts on his Halloween costume in the first place ? :crazed:

Jar Jar is doing just fine, you can hear him scream "Weesa Free!" in Episode 6. :)

The 'Xir
05-21-2005, 02:28 AM
I'm glad you didn't make the movie then.

Why? You don't like to watch movies where the director/producer has put thought and care into what they are making?!


The editing was great

Matter of opinion!


People have complained too much about Leia's comment of knowing her mother and then expected to see Padme holding her longer than Luke or whatever which is bull. Leia is of an adopted family, but who says she actually knows that. She could be refering to mommy Organa, thinking that she was her real mother that died. Or, have you ever had a memory about your childhood you could swear you remember but you just remember what your parents have told you. Bail and wife could have just told Leia about Padme and she thinks she remembers. You guys just need to get off that complaint train now.

Luke asks her if she remembers her REAL mother! Then states that he never knew his, implying the same person! No he hasn't sprung the brother sister thing on her yet at this point! But with the "Real" question to Leia it shows that Luke knows she was adoptive, and we are to assume she knows it as well! I mean if she's a Jedi...she must have always known! ;) Right?! :ermm:
What I'm saying above is reading between the lines of known dialouge, but what your suggesting in your above statement, is trying to dig for a reason, from a well that is reasonably dry! Luke didn't ask do you remember your mother? That would imply Organa, he asked do you remember your real mother? If Leia only believed to have one mother in Organa, then there is no need for luke to ask such a question, seperating real from not real! It's not like she's got a fake mother! :crazed: Understand?

The 'Xir
05-21-2005, 02:59 AM
Two things, Xir:

How many people even know that Boba has those pelts on his Halloween costume in the first place ? :crazed:

Jar Jar is doing just fine, you can hear him scream "Weesa Free!" in Episode 6. :)

lol Too funny Caesar Too funny!

The pelt thing I could care less about, than having Boba have no purpose in the prequels! If I were making the movies over, I would of had Sidious/Dooku hire Jango/Boba to kill Shmi Skywalker knowing it would 'cause such pain and suffering within him, making him vunerable to the darkside! And just like EpII play it out as if it was Anakins Jedi duties that prevented him from saving her! The Sandpeople could have still captured her, and the reason why Anakin is having his nightmares about her! However, he soon learns the real nightmare is that just when he cut a hole in the SandHut and discovers her, a lanyard binds him(creatively=like his Jedi duties bind him to certain fates)) and pulls him away, then Jango with Flame thrower in tow, torches the hut that shmi was in! This would also be a creative simile, like mothers death, like sons metaphoric death on Mustafar! You know how Geroge loves those repeating themes! This could have worked! And would lend great creedence to Vader's line in ESB, "No disintegrations!"
But the way it is, her death is just Random, and it's just a lesson that Anakin has to learn about lettng go, with no real emotional investment for him or the Audience!

Elliejabbapop
05-21-2005, 03:50 AM
I haven't read any of the posts above, I'm just going to express my opinion..........

:crazed: :crazed: :crazed: :cry: :cry: :cry: :D :D :D :) :) :) :( :( :( :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :cool: :cool: :cool::speech: :speech: :speech: :classic: :classic: :classic: :cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky: :nerv: :nerv: :nerv:

aka everything I felt while watching the movie, in no particular order.

Slicker
05-21-2005, 05:21 AM
OK, speaking of, I just remembered something else! I know you'll alll probably kill me but really...What about Jar Jar? Here Lucas has written this(starts off as a) Major character into his story, and gives him no closure?!!! This goes against all good writting skills that even a 2 year old can understand! We can't even assume now that he is on Alderaan when it gets blown up! He and the rest of the Gungans just live out there lives on Naboo I guess!
I don't care how much you hated him, this is just wrong! He deserves closure, and it can't be done on some tv series, or in books or EU, it has to be done with in the story you have put on screen!!!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR George sucks!
Mesa stopping now!I agree 100% 'Xir. I reaLLY WISH gl would've given us at least a little closure with JJB. At least his death or something.

Pendo
05-21-2005, 08:46 AM
Well being spoiler free made a HUGE difference for me when watching this movie, I had no idea what to expect and it made my first viewing so much more exciting than my first viewings of TPM and AOTC.

I loved the movie. It was well worth the wait. It's by far my favourite of the prequels. I'll start off with the things I didn't like though.

- Count Dooku was given 5 minutes of nothing to do, and killed really early. He was such an important character in Episode II and to see him go so easily at the beginning of the film was disapointing. I know the way Anakin kills him is important to his turn to the dark side, but surely it could have occured later on in the movie.

- General Grievous was pointless, I just hated the character, his voice, and his look. He had hardly anything to do, he was just an excuse to seperate Obi-Wan from the other Jedi. I think Dooku should have been given Grievous' role, it would have given Dooku much more to do.

- Jar Jar was an extra!!! What is that all about? He was such an important character in the previous two movies and now he's got sod all to do in this movie except for filling up the background. So disappointing!

- Padmé's death. I don't know how anyone would lose the will to live when you have children on the way. I know she's heart-broken by Anakin but surely she would want to live for her child(ren)?


Anyways, the things I did like:
- The scene where Anakin/Vader kills the Younglings. I love the way we see Ani ignite his lightsaber then it cuts out. It brought chills down my spine, who could possibly kill those darling little children :cry:?

- Palpatine is awesome in the movie. 'Nuf said!

- Anakin's turn I thought was done brilliantly. I was worried that it would be quite stupid, but the way Palpy manipulated Anakin into thinking the Jedi were the bad guys, and that they can save Padmé's life was nicely done :).

- The death of the Jedi brought a tear to my eye. I thought it was done excellently, and Johnny Williams' music was superb.

- Mace Widu's death was so shocking! I knew Mace Windu was going to die, but when I actually saw it I couldn't actually believe that he was dead. It was so shocking to see.

- Obi-Wan's "You were my brother, Anakin!" speech towards the end of the film was so emotional. And seeing Anakin burn and Obi-Wan walk away, so powerful!

I thought this was the strongest movie of the prequels. I thought I would be upset that seeing Anakin is Darth Vader would ruin the "I am your father scene", and although I still believe it would have been better to preserve this I thought Anakin's transformation was done quite well.

Overall 8/10

I'm going to see it for a 4th time laer :).

PENDO!

mastermatt24
05-21-2005, 03:31 PM
I cant wait for the DVD and all of those cut sceens.. :(
I wanted to se Mon Mothma!!

Tycho
05-21-2005, 04:33 PM
I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!

I just got home from seeing it my 4th time - in time to post this before going later this afternoon to see it my 5th time.

The more I see it, the more I like it. This could be my favorite SW movie!

It's totally inspired me to do a SW movie marathon again tonight. I was tired of the 5 other films a bit (well, not AOTC, ANH, ESB, and ROTJ ;) ) but now I want to watch all of them :crazed: Yeah, I realize that I wasn't tired of any of them. :D

Anyway, most of the positives I've read posted already. I'll go on later. I don't want to be the last in line so I gotta hop in my airspeeder transportation and blast off again.

I'll talk to you all when I get back.

"Wait for me."

InsaneJediGirl
05-21-2005, 07:14 PM
Saw it for the first time today.Awesome movie despite the flaws,being a spoiler freak really didnt effect the movie for me,considering the book was way different than the movie. There were more parts I enjoyed than hated,mainly pacing and the way the scenes/explainations were presented.Acting was much better this time as well,the characters seem to have a much better relationship with one another.

The best moment?When Anakin killed the younglings,that really transfered to screen well.Second best would have to be the entire lava duel,you could see Obi-Wan was really hurt.

mastermatt24
05-22-2005, 12:42 AM
the book was way different than the movie.
Does the book have Mon Mothma and Yoday going to Daghoba in it?

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 07:21 AM
EXCELLENT

I loved Mace dying like he did.........gruesome I know but yet It was sweet!!
The scene on Mustafar with Ani and Obi was done extremely well (lirically) excwpt for some cheesy CGI when they were floating on the lava.
Where is Qui gon - on the editing floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is Bobba - nowhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Besides the aforementioned b&*^%es, the movie ranks above ROTJ for me!!!
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) :):):):):):):):):)

Sith Lord 0498
05-22-2005, 10:37 AM
Does the book have Mon Mothma and Yoday going to Daghoba in it?

The book has several lengthy, meaningful sequences with Mon Mothma in it. In fact, those sequences are essentially the birth of Rebel Alliance (called the Delegation of the 2,000 in the timeline of ROTS though). Yoda going to Dagobah is a single line. The last few scenes in the book were written in a montage-like style to mirror the movie.

mastermatt24
05-22-2005, 03:43 PM
Ok thats great. I might actually read it now! :crazed:

DarthAngel
05-22-2005, 07:22 PM
I'm so bad!

I went to go see the midnight showing of the movie in my area, and while I was waiting for the movie to start, my brother and boyfriend both heard the people in front of us talking about what they thought was going to happen in the movie. So I started talking to them, and I tried to stay away from things that were going to spoil the movie for them, but I wound up betting them that Darth Sidious and Palpatine was the same person. So needless to say I won.

It's gotten to a point now where I just want to shout out before the movie starts "Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader" but I resist.

Overall I liked the movie. I was a little disappointed that the scene between Bail, Padme, Mon Mothma and the other senators was cut, as well as the scene with Qui-Gon's ghost, and Yoda's landing on Dagobah.

The lightsaber fights between Yoda/Darth Sidious and Obi-Wan/Anakin were absolutely amazing, and how they were edited the film to go back and forth between the 2 fights was phenominal.

Now is it just me or did someone at ILM slip an actual Star Destroyer into the opening battle? When I saw it the first time I wasn't sure, but then I went back and saw it a few more times (only had to pay for tickets for opening night, god how I love being an unsuspecting star wars uber fan) and when Anakin and Obi-Wan are fighting Dooku, the part where Obi-Wan goes to destroy the 2 Super Battle Droids, if you look out the window, the Republic Cruiser looks like a Star Destroyer from the OT. Anyone else see that?

Another thing I didn't understand was why everyone laughed when Yoda took out the 2 Red Royal Guards. Every showing that I have gone to since the movie opened, the entire theater errupted into laughter once the Red Guards are knocked down.

All in all great movie, its right up there with ESB.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-22-2005, 07:48 PM
Another thing I didn't understand was why everyone laughed when Yoda took out the 2 Red Royal Guards. Every showing that I have gone to since the movie opened, the entire theater errupted into laughter once the Red Guards are knocked down.

Because it was cool how he took them out. Just like people cheered when he took out the clone troopers. The guards were less of a threat, but it was amusing how he dispatched them like that.

DarthAngel
05-22-2005, 07:59 PM
Because it was cool how he took them out. Just like people cheered when he took out the clone troopers. The guards were less of a threat, but it was amusing how he dispatched them like that.

I understand that. But when Yoda took out the Clone Troopers on Kashykk and in front of the Jedi Temple the way he did, I've heard people shout random things like "Holy $***" "did you see that" "alright" I even heard one person say "yo". The royal guards being taken out was the only point in the movie where the theater was in complete laughter (except me...I didn't find it funny).

Oh Well

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 08:00 PM
Because it was cool how he took them out. Just like people cheered when he took out the clone troopers. The guards were less of a threat, but it was amusing how he dispatched them like that.

It all goes back to Anakin's training in clones when he moves the apple across the table in front of Padme and says Obi wouldn't approve. Meaning using the force that way. Well Yoda does it to dispell of the guards and it is funny and ironic.

jedibear
05-22-2005, 08:02 PM
....and it was better than the first time! Besides the obvious thing like no messy reel changes, scratches and dropped sound or surround kicking on & off, the movie looked stunning! There were no additonal scenes or different takes but seeing the movie with all the sharpness, detail and color balance really made a difference.

It was great to see all of the detail in the opening battle...the colours looked richer and the blacks were jet-black, not muddy looking. Kassykk pops off the screen with detail...Utapau also benefits from the sharp detail, especially during the chase scene...the various planets glimpsed during Order 66 really looked cool...all of the action scenes "read" better and were sharper.

I noticed the sound mix was slightly different too in a few places and some of the dialouge was easier to understand (mainly Greivous).

This movie is quickly becoming my favorite. If you have a chance to see it digitally projected, make the effort! I hade to drive 2 hours (one-way!) to do it and I will definately do it again before it leaves the big screen!

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 08:31 PM
I have 2 questions for those wiser than myself:

1. Shmi says that "there is no father" when asked who is Anakin's father in TPM. Who is his father?
2. What does Padme say right before she dies in ROTS?:confused:

Jedi_Master_Guyute
05-22-2005, 08:52 PM
I have 2 questions for those wiser than myself:

1. Shmi says that "there is no father" when asked who is Anakin's father in TPM. Who is his father?
2. What does Padme say right before she dies in ROTS?:confused:

1. There was no father because the Sith created his life out of the midochlorians (not spelled right).
2. "There is good in him. there is good...." (blahhhhhhhhh i'm dead) :p

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 08:52 PM
Overall I liked the movie. I was a little disappointed that the scene between Bail, Padme, Mon Mothma and the other senators was cut, as well as the scene with Qui-Gon's ghost, and Yoda's landing on Dagobah.


I could not agree more about the deleted scenes. I so very much wanted to see the Dagobah landing and Qui Gon's ghost. Talking with those who have passed.

Dark Helmet
05-22-2005, 09:01 PM
1. There was no father because the Sith created his life out of the midochlorians (not spelled right).
2. "There is good in him. there is good...." (blahhhhhhhhh i'm dead) :p

Thanks, I was leaning towards the midi"s conclusion - cloning or virgin birth:D
There is good in him as we see in ROTJ. I still don't like the young Anakin ghost in the DVD collection. He was not on the light side of the force when he turned to Vader therefore his ghost should have been the same as it was in ROTJ. The old burned up Anakin not the young one.

Rocketboy
05-23-2005, 01:17 AM
Wow!...easily best of the PT, possibly tied with Empire as my favorite.

My only compliants were mainly things that we heard sooooo much about and saw so little of (and they were no big deal in the long run).
Such as:
Kashyyyk/Chewie - with all the hype, the scenes were so freakin' short.
Grevious - amazingly lame. Maybe lamer than Darth Maul. And someone give the dork a cough drop!
Order 66 - What I saw was pretty cool, but we needed more - lots LOTS more.
Palpatine - overall, he was pretty good, but at times there was some seriously bad overacting there. His makeup was just as laughable as it is in the Empire DVD.
Tarkin - or should I say the Tarkin muppet? He looked beyond bad - worse than Palpatine. Why was he there again?
Threepio - needed more Threepio.
Aayla Secura - Amy Allen said that she does not die...ummm...how???
The Death Star - we needed a good look at it instead of glances through a window.
Yoda - gave up a bit too quickly while fighting Palps. All of a sudden, he was like "That's it, I'm outta here!"
Battle Driods - They must've gotten a downgrade during the war - they were even dumber (and even polite - "Excuse me" - WTF). And since when did Super BDs talk?
Obi-Wan watching the holo of Vader - did he get a new cut of that scene? It was different than what happened (right?).
Vader's hissy fit - I thought he should have gone abslutely ballstic when he found out Padme was dead, not just crush a few things.

As I said, they are just little things I can look past (or get over).
My list of things I loved would take much, much longer to type. :)

vader121
05-23-2005, 09:26 AM
I've read through numerous 'opinions' on this film and most are nit-picky and brutal. I went into this film knowing in the back on my mind what many of you are saying. Once the movie started those faded away and I sat back and truly enjoyed this movie. I felt like a kid again and enjoyed it as a child should.

This is what many of you are missing. Just enjoy the movie for what it is. Do not worry about how every single question is in need of answering. Frankly I thought ep1 was garbage and ep2 was a little better but still not that good. Ep3 is awesome. How can you not like non-stop action? Remember this movie is intended for all ages including kids so the movie needs to appeal to young viewers. Kids are the ones who normally play with toys. I'm 31 and it appeals to me. Immature? Maybe but at least I know not to worry myself with endless lists of nit-picking whiny rumblings. Things could have been done better, sure, but isn't that the case for every movie. Nothing is perfect. Even everyone's sacred ESB had shortcomings and boring parts.

Do yourself a favor and cast away all your trekkie-like fantacism and see it again with a fresh view and think of it as a single movie, not in a series. I bet you'll like it, if not love it.

waboritas
05-23-2005, 09:39 AM
DISTURBING!

I finally went and saw ROTS last night. I knew the plot as I waited my whole life for this movie and I still left the movie shaken and a little depressed. The manipulation of Anakin was amazing. My heart started racing when Anakin left the Council Chamber, got in his speeder to go to Palpatine's office. The next ten minutes I was emotionally drained as the Jedi were wiped out. Lucas accomplished what he set out to do. I thought it was very well done. I would rank it third overall behind ESB and ANH. I left the theatre depressed and wondering what if.... It really made you think about a lot of things and decisions that were made in E 1-III by the Jedi Council, Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu. For wise men, they were all pretty naive, and got what they deserved as they never should have trained the kid. He brought "balance to the force" by eradicating the Jedi. I don't think that was the prophecy they intended.

Grievous was a major disappointment, coughing was very lame? His point in the movie was to seperate Anakin from Obi Wan. What a week showing.

Dooku's part was pretty straightforward, so I don't have a problem with him getting knocked off quickly, although I would have rather seen Grievous go first, but then the story would not work as Sidious would not need a new apprentice.

The Vader Nooooooooooooo! at the end didn't bother me.

As far as the deleted scenes, the movie had a nice flow to it. We will get them in the dvd. We all know to keep the $$$$ coming the whole set I-VI will be released on dvd and he will tweek the prequals to be done as he originally envisioned them and the deleted scenes from I-III will all be inserted in.

I really don't know if I want to see it in the theatre again. Will likely wait for the dvd. The good that came out of it is my fiance' wants to watch ANH and ESB to get the back story as it has been a long time since she watched them.

The Overlord Returns
05-23-2005, 10:22 AM
Well, It's finally over...

Having seen the film only once, I'll give the initial thoughts I have. I am sure I'll see it a few more times before saying goodbye to the SW fan world forever.

I liked the film despite it's flaws. The pacing was far superior to the other 2 films, and has left me wondering why we needed the Phantom Menace at all. That entire film could have comprised one hour of story, and left GL more time to properly wrap up the final epsiode. The pacving in E3 was so breakneck that it was almost too quick. Losing the Qui-Gon scene and inserting a throwaway line from Yoda was unfortunate, but GL didn't leave himself enough time to do anything but.

The opening scenes were highly enjoyable. I loved the battle as a backdrop to Obiwan and Anakins rescue quest. R2 was given some genuinely funny scenes again, which was nice to see. Trying to muffle the comlink in his chest was highly amusing, as was seeing him dispatch of the Battle droids with ease.

Dooku realizing he'd been duped worked quite well. Anakins first taste of bloodlust and his guilt over it obviously was intended to colour his view of Mace Windu during the "turn" scene.

I loved General Grevious, right down to the silly voice. If one views this as a somewhat politically charged commentary on America today, one might view him as Osama Bin Laden. The fear mongering Palpatine uses in relation to this character works throughout the film until his death.

Anakins turn I am still reconciling. It seems that it went far too quickly, however I think the idea here is that there is meant to be a "point of no return" and Anakin comes to his when he chooses to stop Windu from killing Palpatine. Still, it was a bit too fast, and I'm left wondering if the "pledge" was all bull, with Anakin opting to "use" the emperor for his own gains after being fully consumed by the darkside. As we see at the end though, Palps will obviously do a very good job of breaking Vaders spirit in the ensuing 20 odd tears before ROTJ occurs.

Yoda "failing" has little to do with his inability to kill Palpatine. I believe that line is the final realization by Yoda that they were all worng, that the Jedi caused this to happen. He's lamenting his failure of Anakin. His retreat however, was not a surprise at all. He lost the highground, and opted not to make the mistake Anakin would make against Obiwan on Mustafar. I don't understand why so many are having a problem with his retreat.

I lament the scenes showing the forming of the rebel alliance being cut. My understanding is that they gave Padme something to do other than pine away for Anakin.

Padme in general was a non-event. I think GL made a huge error opting to tell a lovestory as well as a tragic fall. Perhaps Padme should have loved anakin from the start, giving more time for them both as "doers' and less as talking heads by the fire. Still, she has the most relevant line in the film, and one of the best.

The duels were excellent as always. Obiwans anger and pain at anakins loss were beautifully tragic. Thank god it was McGregor that was there to deliver these lines, he succseeded perfectly.

Padme dying of a brokenheart. Just when you go and fix the "virgin birth" angle GL, you throw another utterly ridiculous moment in.

As for the twins, I can't quite remember, but it seemed that Luke never looked at his mother, indeed never opened his eyes during the birth scene, and I'm quite sure that Leia was fare more awake and lucid. I am remembering eye contact between her and Padme, that I do not remember from Luke. One wonders how long it will take adopted Leia to figure out that something ain't quite right with her caucasian skin compared to her parents very hispanic appearance. Luke being taken to tatooine was inevitable, and obviously Ben would have reconsidered had he known Vader was alive. However, it's also easy to assume that Vader would never intend on setting foot on the planet again. Hell, he doesn't even lead the search for the droids down there in ep 4. It's obviously too painful.

There are a few things in the OT that now had a different resonance than before. First, Vader's line to Ben about now being "The Master". I always jsut assumed that he meant his relationship with obiwan, now it seems he was taling about the entire Jedi Order and it's decision not to grant him the title.

Second, I never once when watching the OT ever considered the notion that Luke might turn. I can't help but wonder if future generations watching the entire thing together, might consider the idea that the emperor could be victorious a second time and that Luke might turn.

Overall I did enjoy it, but it had a few cringe-worthy moments. The Principal Skinneresque "NOOOOOO!!!" was not all that bad, and I enjoyed the Frankenstein homage. I liked that Vader showed emotion, perhaps for the final time. It was a nice tie in between the two sagas. We've always known Vader as cool and collected, here we get to see him in infancy, not quite bereft of all his feelings. I thought the scene worked, and perhaps should have had a general scream as opposed to a "NOOOOO!!!"

Finally, there were two things that I am quite sure were there (or not there) to set up the TV series. One, when Yoda has obiwan change the "allclear" message to one ordering any remining Jedi to stay away. It stands to reason that we may see Vader hunting down the Jedi in this new tv show. Also, we are never shown Yoda being dropped on Dagobah in the film. Is it possible that he DOES perhaps cause a few "terrorist" attacks on the Empire before going to Dagobah? Perhaps Yoda will make a few appearances in the TV series, if it does indeed happen.

Anyhow, the Story of Star wars is as old as I am, and now it is essentially over. It's good to be free of it, in many ways. However, I will always love sitting down once or twice ayear to watch the saga unfold with a few friends, and I do look forward to introducing it to any lil' overlords I may produce. Cheers guys, it's been a slice...

CaptainSolo1138
05-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Great review, Overlord! Upon second viewing, the "NOOOOO!" wasn't as bad.

jedibear
05-23-2005, 10:15 PM
Now that my first impressions are past and I've had a chance to see this movie the way it was intended (in DLP), I wanted take the time to share my thoughts on this last film in the saga we've all enjoyed for so long.

One of the great things about the SW saga is how it outgrew just being a successful movie and turned into a virtual (and literal) community. Books, comics, games, websites, messageboards, toys and other collectables, conventions and more have given fans of this saga a sense of ownership in the saga that has hardly ever been rivaled. Yes, there were great sagas before SW and there will be more after, but everyone who has ever been touched by this saga in any way has carried the myth forward. I'd like to think that was part of Lucas' intention in creating the saga, but if it was just a happy accident, it's one that I've been thrilled to be a part of...and make no mistake, we've ALL been a part of it...on some level.

When I attended C lll last month, it was the culmination of almost 30 years of experiencing this great saga. While on the surface to the most casual observer, the whole exercise looked like nothing more than a huge exercise in commercialism, there was alot going on that showed just how significant a part this saga has played in the lifes of so many people of all ages, of all walks of life. Yes, the exhibition room was a blast of SW possessions, but some of the things that made me proud to be a fan were seeing the wonderful sense of community that existed, from a great organisation like the 501st to the artists that shared their enthusiasm and the passion for their work and who enjoyed sharing it with those who truly appreciated it. Nothing came as close to that feeling of seeing SW for the first time all those summers ago as being in that ballroom as Rick McCallum showed us footage from ROTS...his enthusiasm was returned by everyone there. It was magic...

Another aspect of "ownership" we all share for SW came in following every aspect of the movies, waiting for those "spoilers" (or trying in vain to avoid them!!), going behind the scenes via the internet, magazines & books and "getting to know" Lucas and the artists behind this saga. It has been another amazing aspect to being a part of this saga. I won't paint too rosy a picture, sometimes folks could let their expectations and their sense of ownership run away with them (and descend into the occasional bout of rudeness) and I found myself caught up in my own web of expectations created by all the web-surfing, book-reading and magazine viewing as I strained to soak up all I could about this final chapter in this saga. As that first midnight show unspooled before my eyes, I had an amazing array of emotion...knowing this was the last chapter made me hope I would have all my personal expectations met...I wanted to see every scene I read about online or read in the book be in this movie. Yes, there was a bit of disappointment (especially missing Qui-gon & the birth of the rebellion), but on the whole, I was simply overwhelmed and thrilled by what the movie contained. Having watched it several times as it is, with those early expectations evaporated, has left me totally appreciating and enjoying this movie. Everyone involved from actors to artists to Lucas himself seemed energized for this chapter and it showed, from stirring performances to scenes crammed with so much detail that multiple viewings would be inevitable (and welcome) to take it all in...
One of the points of sadness about finally seeing this movie is knowing this is it...the saga is really over. Yes, books, games, comics & toys will continue...a television series is on the way...but the saga that started in the middle about that farmboy on a desert world that would redeem his father was over & done. It's hard not to feel sad....but it doesn't stop me from enjoying this moment...

It was interesting to read how Lucas approaches making his movies over the course of the saga, moreso with the prequels than the original...working so closely with the artists who inspire him and in turn are inspired by him to create the awesome worlds we as viewers get to inhabit. One of the major points made by Lucas as he made these movies is that for him, the script is just one level of how the story of the movie falls together...that for him, he likes to focus on the visual aspect of telling his story. This has gotten him into a little hot water with both fans and critics over what some consider to be a weakness in these movies. I guess being a visual artist myself has allowed me to make the leap past that "problem" and take Lucas at his word and follow along. For me, the results are stunning...I like the aspect of taking the visual art of this story to the forefront for how the story is being told. Some of the best filmakers do this effortlessly, from the classic images of Chaplin, Lean and Wells to our modern masters like Speilberg, Scott (Ridley), Cameron, Jackson(Peter), Rodriguez and yes, Lucas.

All of the Star Wars films lean heavily on the idea of images over words, but Revenge of the Sith is the penultimate chapter in this regard. I read the book...Stover did an outstanding job of telling the story...in interviews he commented that it was his intention to write a book that a movie could be based on as opposed to just a "novelization". He wisely focused on the thought processes of the characters...getting in their heads...motivations, feelings...and in that regard the book is excellent. One prime example of that is at the end of chapter 13...as Anakin & Obi-Wan part ways for the last time as friends...this scene was perfect on the page.
Going into the movie requires one to switch gears and let the visual storytelling take over.

A couple of prime examples of this in "Sith" are....Greivous. One "action" moment that summed up everything you needed to know about that character was when, during the duel with Obi-Wan, after he is "force-pushed" he hits the ground and scurries on all limbs like an insect before he propels himself onto his wheel bike for his escape....constantly running. The character's design looked threatening, but how he moves tells more than any group of lines could. Another moment played up in the book that was truly beautiful onscreen in in the same sequence...Obi-Wan on the boga. No long expositon with talky scenes introducing him to the creature...bonding and all...just a wonderous pull-back with the Boga leaping into the frame and off in pursuit. It was a lyrical moment that was just magic. Another wonderful motif was how as the movie progresses, Coruscant grows dark and cloudy, with deeping shadows that finally culminate in torrential rain as Sidious returns with his broken apprentice. These are just a few examples of "Sith's" biggest strengths...the story told through art.

It's really wonderful how all through the SW saga, there have been many scenes like the ones mentioned above that depend more on just letting the visual paint the picture...to tell the story. It's my favorite quality about the saga, both as an artist and a fan...from the early paintings of Ralph McQuarrie to the technical brilliance of Joe Johnston to the sweeping vistas of Doug Chaing to the inticate detailings of Ian McCaig to the stunning granduer of Church & Teimans.

I hope as the summer wears on and folks go back again & again to see ROTS that they find themselves drawn in by all the details...not just the actors and the script...I think they'll come away with the feeling that this movie is a total triumph for all involved...not just Lucas and his artists, but for all of us who enjoy visiting that galaxy far, far away....

El Chuxter
05-31-2005, 03:21 PM
Please pass the ketchup. I have some words to eat.

I saw the digital print on Sunday, and it wasn't noticeably different. Some special effects were cleaner, and I think Plo Koon's death may have been a bit more detailed.

I can only assume that a combination of a lousy theater, the late hour, and an irritating group of teenieboppers sitting all around contributed to my non-enjoyment the first time around. Or maybe I wanted to see Vader in the armor kicking some butt and don't want to admit it.

In any case, this is easily the best of the prequels. I'm going back and forth on whether it's better than the original. It doesn't match ESB, which is a perfect film no matter how you look at it, nor does it have quite the emotional impact ROTS does for me. But it's a great film, and I look forward to watching the entire series on DVD this fall. :)

2-1B
06-01-2005, 03:24 AM
Master Chux ! It's so good to see you fully functional again. :crazed:

jjreason
06-02-2005, 04:10 AM
Master Chux ! It's so good to see you fully functional again. :crazed:

That's hilarious, Skeez, great minds think alike. When I was reading Chuxy's post, my idea for a funny reply was "Thank the maker!" :D

2-1B
06-02-2005, 04:38 AM
Another worthy reply, Reason ! :)

When Chux came down on ROTS I was taken aback, I couldn't cope with it . . . I felt ambushed, kind of like Ki-Adi-Mundi. :crazed: :crazed: :crazed:

Tycho
06-02-2005, 12:34 PM
What amazes me is how much I can watch this film over and over again, and look forward to not just parts, but the whole thing! I'm never bored watching ROTS "waiting for THAT scene," or whatever. There are enough duels and drama to keep me entertained throughout the picture.

The 'Xir
06-04-2005, 05:19 AM
Like many here I'm sure, I have to admit that during the 16 year hiatus between RotJ and TPM, I spent many an hour watching and wearing out my VHS copies of the OT! And as big of a Lucas butt kisser as I became within those 16 years, I'll also admit there were alot of things I didn't like about the original movies as well, but after about 1,000 viewings I came to an understanding of the overall story and the elements within that story!
**flashforward May 1999**
Liked TPM instantly, grew to Love it after countless hours arguing and defending it(and what George had done) on this site!

Now I don't know if I was tainted by all the hatred that poured out of this site because of that movie(sure you may like or love it now, but I remember many times when it felt like it was me against this whole site when having to defend that movie), but slowly I turned from the light(Lucas butt kisser) and followed Down the Dark Path to a Lucas Bashing, wanna go on a Prequel-loving' Padawans killing spree! :evil: :D :nerv:

I can only hope that in the next 16 years, and many greuling hours of picking these prequels apart, I will gain some appreciation for AotC and RotS. Although the 'Leia but not Luke remembering her mother thing' is gonna take all 16 of 'em, if not more! :dis:

Really though, I'll just be happy if I can atleast feel some sort of emotion towards RotS before it leaves theatres! I mean here I have a lifetime of invested interest in all these movies and their characters and I can honestly say the only emotional reaction I've had to this movie so far, is during the once infamous and now shadow-of-former-self 'Jedi Purge' scene! Music was awesome but still, even this scene I think would have been even better, if they had framed it all with the betraly against Ki-Adi! He is the only lesser known council memebr we have any or atleast the most appreciation for, and if they had framed the scene with him urging on the clones as he does while charging into battle THEN shown all the other lesser known Jedi get killed and then go back and show his troops betrayl and his death for the end, I think it would have played out even better than it does! But that's just me!

Here's hoping the dvd's get here sooner than later, and here's to the next 16+ years of viewing and hopefully... understanding. :neutral: Cheers!

2-1B
06-05-2005, 12:22 AM
You'd have to be soulless to not feel any emotion in this film. lol

DarthAngel
06-05-2005, 06:46 PM
Ok, lets get to it shall we?

First after seeing ROTS 17 times I still stand by my firm belief that this is one of the best films of all time. There were several things that I liked about the film, as well as some things that I am not to crazy about but can stand them, and then there is one thing that I feel needs to be clarafied one way or another.

The opening battle sequence is amazing. I was impressed with all the visual effects as well as all the sound effects. I like how the editors tied the 2 trilogies together with the sound effects of the Jedi starfighters and later then in the movie with the V-wings.

The lightsaber duels were very well thought out and acted. The way that the final duels were woven together made the drama all that more intense.

I thought it was clever of Lucas and his team to give most of the comic relief moments to either r2, 3po, battle droids, and the super battle droids, due to the fact that the droids would be a very unlikely source for any form of comic relief which is why I also believe that the voices of battle droids, and super battle droids were altered a bit to sound a little less robotic.

General Grevious, while he is an interesting character, I was disappointed in how he was portrayed as a wuss compared to how he is portrayed in the CW cartoons. His lightsaber fight with Obi-Wan was way too short, and way too cheesetastic, not to mention that, like Darth Maul, Grevious goes out like a punk.

And while I understand that Yoda took out the Royal Guards in a manner that he shouldn't of, I still find no humor in it. If it is funny to people because Yoda takes out 2 people who are almost triple his size, then why aren't people laughing when he takes out the clone troopers on Kashyyk or the ones he takes out in front of the Jedi Temple?

I feel bad for anyone who thinks Hayden did a poor job portraying Anakin. It's not his fault, he was only working with what he had, and if uncle George didn't want him to be that evil in AOTC then we as fans need to accept that, and quit complaining about it. Of course there are a lot of things Uncle George could have done differently with all the movies of the PT, but we were given what we were and we have to accept the movies for what they are. Which leads me to my next point.

Now maybe it's just me, maybe my hearing is on the fritz (I probably wouldn't be the first 25y/o to need a hearing aid), but I don't think the nemoidian captian of Grevious's ship is saying "magnetize, magnetize" when the ship is falling towards Courascant. Now of course it would not make any sense for him to be saying "magetize, magetize" but it seems to be the only logical thing for 2 reasons. While he says that line rather quickly, there is no indication of any sorts that he makes an 'n' sound at all. Secondly, now lets say that hypothetically he is saying magnetize. If we are to believe that the battle droids, super battle droids, magna guards, grevious, destroyers, and even r2 himself are all made of some type of metal, and as we know most metals are magnetic to some degree, then if the captian was saying magnetize, he was making a mutiny out of most of his crew, cause all the driods would have stuck to the floor or ceiling near them and would not have been able to move at all. However as we see in the movie all the droids move around freely. If anyone can state otherwise why they believe the Nemoidian is saying magnetize, and has proof, I'll buy it.

Mad Slanted Powers
06-05-2005, 11:26 PM
I don't think magnetize necessarily means you can't move. I've seen Star Trek episodes where they use magnetic boots to walk on the outside of the ship. I think the magnetizing was to keep the droids from flying all over the place when the ship was rolling around, and in the case where the was a breech, to keep them from flying out into space. I'd have to go see it again to hear what he said, but based on what was happening and what I heard him say, it sounded like magnetize to me. I don't think I've got to that point of the book yet. Perhaps someone who has would know if it is mentioned in there.

2-1B
06-06-2005, 12:30 AM
Yeah, maybe they wanted to magnetically secure the droids to the floor . . . or something. :confused:

The 'Xir
06-06-2005, 04:02 AM
You'd have to be soulless to not feel any emotion in this film. lol

Just call me Darth 'Xir than! :neutral:

And just to clarify, on it's own, I think RotS is a good film! However, what it lends to the rest of the Saga and mainly to the OT is something(imo) that is disappointing! It's Probably due to my disdain towards AotC, and now I see it like RotS wasn't able to recover from AtoC mistakes, and maybe that's why I see it as disappointing! Ya see TPM didn't really mess with the overall story of the OT, it was just an introduction of these characters we heard about but never really knew who they were and what their roles were. AotC obviously had to start the process of tying in the prequels to the OT, and overall I just didn't like the direction George took it in!

Actually I think I'm just more ****ed at George for leaving things open/hanging, than any actual dislike towards RotS. I'm just more suprised than anything to how I haven't had any emotional reaction to this film! Believe me I want to, almost need to, but this film just hasn't touched me yet! :neutral: Maybe one day.

Mr. JabbaJohnL
06-06-2005, 11:42 AM
After seeing it a second time a while ago, I still love this movie. I wasn't nearly as sad at the parts from the first viewing that nearly got me going, but they were still sad. I got serious chills when Anakin killed the kids, Order 66 happened, Vader was named, and the helmet was lowered, among other things. I'm still not a fan of the BDs' new voices but I wasn't as bugged by them this time around, since I knew what it would be like. I appreciated the opening battle more as well, since the first time I was still numb and in shock that this was a new SW movie. :D I plan on seeing it a few more times in the theater.

Oh, and I thought the guy was saying "Negatize, negatize," whatever that means.

2-1B
06-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Xir, you are one of the very very very very very few people I've met who prefer TPM to its two sequels. lol

Sorry I can't give you any advice on how to better enjoy ROTS. lol

Mad Slanted Powers
06-06-2005, 07:55 PM
Xir, you are one of the very very very very very few people I've met who prefer TPM to its two sequels. lol

And I would be the other person. Like Xir said, I don't feel TPM really messed with the continuity in the way many feel it did. Plus, I really enjoyed the film. AOTC was all right, and still didn't seem to mess with things, but it didn't seem to work as well for me in parts. I enjoyed ROTS, but Anakin's submission confused me a bit on the first viewing. Watching again, it made more sense. However, I don't think it reconciled some of Obi-Wan's statements to Luke in ANH. Mainly:

BEN: I haven't gone by Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born

and

LUKE: My father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.

BEN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

and

BEN: Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you'd follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.

jedibear
06-07-2005, 11:48 AM
I'm really into this movie.

One amazing aspect about Order 66 are the various settings. From the almost Lewis Carroll-inspired Felucia to the Shangri-La(Lost Horizon)-tinged Bridgeworld (that I presume is Cato Nemodia from some of the comments made by artists in the "Art of.." & "Making of..." tome's) to the battle-scarred world where Stass Allie meets her fate to the stunning scale of Kassykk...all the world depicted have an almost overt fantasy feel to them that most of the worlds we inhabit in these movies have. It's almost like Lucas is placing this most horrific betrayal in settings that are almost dreamlike instead of of the more "reality" based worlds we're used to.

Does it soften the blow...of course not, but it adds an interesting slant to the scene that I like. We see glimpses of other worlds that seem alien to us...other cultures caught up in this galaxy-wide conflict...and we see just how ripped apart every corner of the galaxy is as the jedi are quickly dispatched. It's almost like the droid armies are beside the point to the Clones who implement their genetically coded order...that the war itself was nothing more than and excuse to tap out that jedi and eliminate them.

That's the main amazing thing about these movies...especially the prequels...that get me going. While the central story of one man's fall is important, there are so many other facets to the story that warrant examination and attention...

I love this movie!

vulcantouch
06-10-2005, 12:47 AM
stilla: "Ian rather overplayed the maniacal-ness"
-ian, overplay? no such thing! i say "here's some scenery for you to chew ian, and when yer done with it there's more where that came from" :D

hf: "everyone cheered when Yoda cut the 2 troopers heads off on Kashyyyk"
-yeah, same went for both screenings i hit; wonder why people did that, it wasn't That rousing :ermm:

mw: "How come Obi "doesn't seem to remember R2"
-actually he "doesn't seem to remember Owning a droid"; since jedi forbid possession, he never even "owned" r4-g9 or r4p17 :)

hf: "why would he hide this offspring who is undoubtedly chock full o' Midichlorians next to Shmi's grave?"
tor: "it's also easy to assume that Vader would never intend on setting foot on the planet again. . . It's obviously too painful"
-exactly; the emotions associated therewith are so pronounced they'd cloud his vision; hence it's the perfect hiding place :)

tor: "one might view (gg) as Osama"
-hey i hadn't thoughta that, thanx :)

rb: "since when did Super BDs talk?"
-or if they do, at least give less heliumized voices eh; they currently sound like the detroit grand pubas singin bout makin Sandwiches, out there on the dance floor :p

xir: "What about Jar Jar?"
-oh what aBout him; to ROTS' credit, it didn't give him so much as One line :D

bb: "pop-in ROTJ and find my happy-place"
-ew, that'd make Me lose it ;)

"didn't feel the urge to buy any toys or 'take home a piece of this movie' when I left"
-which provokes an interesting question, within the context of a fun debate we been havin (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=26978&page=2&pp=23): if a flik like this Doesn't make one feel like buying merch, is that an artistic failing on its part?

ga: "wasted 6 years of my life and thousands of dollars on useless toys"
-no problem, i'll take some of yer useless toys :D

mons: "Owen standing on Tatooine looking towards the Twin Suns. Did anyone else gets chills during that"
-in fact i did, and it took me by surprise so i'm not sure why. perhaps it was a sudden recapping of the range of emotions it had encapsulated, upon bring sturck by the circular end of our long ride; or, a deft product of the flik's dramatic arc; or, maybe it was simply a moment of awe for the sheer ambitious scope of this invented universe and the efforts marshalled to realize it as fully as it was. perhaps for that last reason i don't mind the numerous ambiguities (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28424&page=2&pp=15), plot holes (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28263&pp=40), insufficiently explained details (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28397&page=2&pp=21), seemingly insufficient motivations (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28447&page=2&pp=6) and ot revisionisms (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28428&page=2&pp=19) we're currently chewing over.
as is said in architectural history, "all great buildings leak". many of ROTS' flaws seem to be rooted in gl having to make ep4 first in order to be able to give rise to this cineverse at all. the proper way to judge this film may be how well it juggles or mitigates the probably-inevitable flaws inherent from the necessary sequence of creation. on that count it did better than i expected, especially in the story arc's resolution managing to haunt me for hours or days afterward (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28815), doing so, much as classic greek tragedies, perhaps in part Because of its ambiguities (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=28445&page=2&pp=6); was the resolution inevitable? wasn't it? was it credible? wasn't it? how much of each Need it be, to resonate on a timeless level? it touches directly on some archetypal aspect of human nature or existence, like an unsolvable paradox your mind compulsively fixates on. in this way, for a moment it stops being the harmless, stylin toycomm i celebrate and which others decry (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/printthread.php?t=26978&page=2&pp=23), and becomes, i'm surprised as anyone to admit, Art. this is what may lie at the root of bigbar's new reluctance to partake of the merch.
in a way, anakin's story mirrors the story of the inception of the films themselves; fatal flaws built in right from the start, but possessed of a startling power that resolves or fulfills itself in unexpected ways. this "mirroring" is manifested in ROTS more than in any of the other chapters, even if it cannot do so entirely separate from them-
vt (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?p=407067#post407067) <--(click here for add'l remarx :))

El Chuxter
03-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Five years later, and I think I've seen this movie three or four times, total. The pacing and lack of character development still bother me quite a bit.

I can't honestly say anymore that I think this is the best of the prequels. I've done rather a 180 on TPM; it's not a great movie by any means, but, despite prolonged senate scenes and the like, it's the prequel that feels the most like Star Wars. I still think, though Qui-Gon was unnecessary overall, Liam Neeson handed in the finest performance of any actor in the trilogy.

It also bugs me more as time goes by that Jar Jar was clearly intended to do something important, but George acquiesed to fanboys' dislikes and pretty much wrote him out of the next two movies. Jar Jar doing something major, or even merely dying a hero onscreen, would've completed a hero's journey (which Lucas claimed in the past to be a major believer in). As it is, he is just a sad little joke.

And, silly as it may sound, not having all the humor completely in the (overextended and unnecessary) first action sequence would've balanced the movie a bit more. It might sound ridiculously minor, but leaving in the exchange between Grievous and Obi-Wan on Utapau ("I was trained in the lightsaber arts by Count Dooku himself!" "What a coincidence. I trained the man who killed Dooku.") would have made a huge difference in the overall tonal balance of the film.

It was a damned fine book by Matthew Stover, though. For me, it's the prequel movie adaptations and immediate tie-in novels (Cloak of Deception, The Approaching Storm, Labyrinth of Evil, and Dark Lord) that are the canon backstory for Anakin Skywalker.

bighead5
03-22-2010, 03:38 PM
Yeah, you know I'm not much different than you, Chuxter. I think I've seen it only four or five times, if even that many, and after seeing it the firt time I really thought it was an awesome movie. I also posted that my favorite of all the films was ANH, but that might change in time in favor of ROTS... Hell no it didn't!

I really didn't like the story line very much. It left a lot to be desired, too many questions unanswered, and too many times having me sit there and say: "Why?"

Even though I liked the movie, it could have been a hell of a lot better!

2-1B
03-22-2010, 10:10 PM
I saw it 4 or 5 times in the first 2 days of release! Midnight showing, then an afternoon and evening showing that same Friday and Saturday.

Gonna watch it again in the next 2 months in honor of the 5th anniversary (watch for the thread dig around that time lol ).

bigbarada
03-22-2010, 11:43 PM
Hard to believe that ROTS is already 5 years old!

Anyways, I originally hated the movie so much that I only saw it once in the theaters and it actually made it very difficult for me to continue being a Star Wars fan for several months after seeing the film.

However, I was much more forgiving of the movie, when I watched it again on DVD and now it's the one prequel that I am most likely to watch mainly because of the eye-candy aspects of it.

I agree with Chux in that it's a shame that Jar Jar's character never realized his full potential because George obviously chickened out of his original prequel story based on fan criticisms of Ep1.

bighead5
03-23-2010, 12:44 AM
I agree with Chux in that it's a shame that Jar Jar's character never realized his full potential because George obviously chickened out of his original prequel story based on fan criticisms of Ep1.

Yeah, it is a shame. It's also a shame that he chickened out on a much better storyline too and gave us ROTS. The PT could have been mind blowing, but instead we got mediocre at best.

I've read storylines for ROTS that would have been absolutely amazing! In a nutshell it included Darth Bane, clone Darth Maul, Darth Xio Jade and several other Sith Lords that all help set out to kill the Jedi council and inevitably Sidious and Vader. When confronted Sidious just laughs at them since he was aware of the setup and he and Vader wipe them all out. There's a lot more to the story, but that's the main part. It would have been way better than what we actually got.

2-1B
03-23-2010, 07:54 AM
Yeahhhhh, not so much. There were enough Sith in these movies as it was, no need to add more of those goofy names.

Darth Metalmute
03-23-2010, 09:51 AM
I'm with El Chuxter.

I loved the book and expected much more from the movie because of it. The book had so many powerful lines in it that were absent on film.

Who knew that after all the complaining done after the release of TPM, that it would be the best of the trilogy......

Neuroleptic
03-23-2010, 10:59 AM
I did not read ROTS, however when I read AOTC and TPM they both looked far better in my head. Not so much special effects wise, but I suppose, acting wise. I realy think if George Lucas hadn't directed the prequils and let someone other than himself do it, they realy would have been better, even with the bad dialog. I mean, to me the best two star wars movies are ROTJ and TESB . . . neither of which was directed by Lucas, and in the case of TESB (The best one ever) Lucas is quoted as saying the director was ruining his movie.

Lucas is a great ideas guy. He's just a terrible director.

As for ROTS 5 years later, I do think it was the best of the prequils by far, but considering how bad the first two are, that's not really saying all that much. This is the movie I wish had been Episode 1. Have them focu on the rise of Darth Vader, then spend the next two movies showing the annialation of the Jedi. Or even streatch out Vader's fall to the dark side through the second movie.

As cool as he is, I do not understand what the point of General Grevious was. He just kind of shows up in episode III. He's a character that should have either shown up in Episode II or even I to fleash him out so his death had some meaning. They could have easily written him out of the script, and given Darth Tyranus (Who's real name has always irritated me) a little more time in the movie, and just had Annie kill some happles Nemodian or something instead during Palpitine's rescue.

Also, while I love the new desighn of the Clone Troopers in ROTS far, FAR more than in AOTC it dosn't make sence that in a war that lasts . . . what, two years? That they'd entierly re-desighn and replace all of the armor that millions of troops use.

I thought it would have been more interesting if they made it look like the old version was being phased out by having several troopers wearing it or bits of it while others have the all new uniforms. Certanly would have made buying more of them interesting as they'd have had several variations to work with that way on the figures.

Padime and Aniken's dialog is terrible . . . but an improvement on AOTC at least.

The big action sequence at the beginning, Utapau, the death of the jedi and the lightsaber fight at the end are all awsome and do save the movie from being just as bad as the other three. But it's by far not the best movie ever made.

JimJamBonds
03-23-2010, 12:12 PM
I've read storylines for ROTS that would have been absolutely amazing! In a nutshell it included Darth Bane, clone Darth Maul, Darth Xio Jade and several other Sith Lords that all help set out to kill the Jedi council and inevitably Sidious and Vader. When confronted Sidious just laughs at them since he was aware of the setup and he and Vader wipe them all out. There's a lot more to the story, but that's the main part. It would have been way better than what we actually got.

That reminds me of a storyline that somebody wrote for AOTC. Long story short in it Maul was somehow saved and cruising around on a hover chair. My thought? TERRIBLE!

Mr. JabbaJohnL
03-27-2010, 07:24 PM
Lucas has said that he could have easily turned them into fanboy wanks (like the ones described a few times in the last few pages) with Vader killing Jedi left and right but that's not the story he wanted to tell.

I think if people took the time to actually watch the films and understand them and not just dismiss them then they'd enjoy them much more.

JimJamBonds
03-27-2010, 11:29 PM
Lucas has said that he could have easily turned them into fanboy wanks (like the ones described a few times in the last few pages) with Vader killing Jedi left and right but that's not the story he wanted to tell.

I think if people took the time to actually watch the films and understand them and not just dismiss them then they'd enjoy them much more.

Nicely put JJL! :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm not just dismissing anything, though. Fact is, though Lucas seems to think the first and second trilogies are pretty equal, and people just see the originals with rose-colored glasses because they were kids, that doesn't really hold up.

The original movies stand up, thirty years later. ANH stands completely on its own, and was like nothing before it--not only visually, but in the attempt to use archetypes and Joseph Campbell to tell a modern fairy tale. ESB and ROTJ obviously don't stand very well entirely alone, but each is an important chapter to the overall storyline of Luke Skywalker. Each character (until you get into background characters, including Wedge and Boba Fett and even Palpatine) grows through the course of the story.

But with the prequels, it's not even an issue of fanwankery. TPM, despite being the most "Star Wars" of the three, is totally unnecessary to the overall story. We meet Anakin, and we get some pretty glaring inconsistencies with the backstory given in the original trilogy. (We're talking Escape from the Planet of the Apes continuity errors, where you want to throw something at the screen and yell, "Who the hell is this Qui-Gon? And how come Cornelius now says the apes knew human civilization came first? Dude, what the hell, didn't you watch your own movies?") AOTC is pretty mediocre overall, and, aside from Anakin showing a nasty temper we already knew about and him and Padme falling in love, nothing really happens with the characters. Obi-Wan is the same as in TPM; so is Yoda, so is, well, everybody. ROTS, we actually see some devolving in Padme's character, as pregnancy turns her from an almost decent Leia surrogate to a spineless wimp. And, worst of all, Anakin, who needs it the most, gets no character development at all. He just goes from a hero to a guy with a desire to kill kids even when it makes no sense whatsoever.

I didn't want some fanboy wet dream of Vader running around, killing Jedi (even though that's sorta what Lucas himself implied thirty years back). I just wanted a story that could stand at least alongside the originals, if not be better. (Considering Lucas now had no studio restrictions, unlimited SFX technology, and more money than God's richer uncle, there's no reason they shouldn't have been.)

Mad Slanted Powers
03-28-2010, 02:36 AM
We meet Anakin, and we get some pretty glaring inconsistencies with the backstory given in the original trilogy. (We're talking Escape from the Planet of the Apes continuity errors, where you want to throw something at the screen and yell, "Who the hell is this Qui-Gon? I can understand most of the rest of the criticism, but I don't see TPM as having glaring inconsistencies. I think it is just that we had so little to go on as to what the prequels were about, some people fixated too much on what we did know. Just because Qui-Gon wasn't mentioned in the OT doesn't mean he didn't exist. Just because Yoda trained Obi-Wan doesn't mean he was the only one to do so.

2-1B
03-28-2010, 01:12 PM
now I have a fanboy wet dream of wanting to see more of Cornelius' backstory. :thumbsup:

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Would this be the uncut DVD version with the "naughty" scenes of him and Zira, while Taylor looks on because they don't know he's intelligent yet?

2-1B
03-28-2010, 04:51 PM
yep, that's the one!
Heston would really show us his acting chops in that scenario.

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 04:59 PM
I heard in that version, he convinces them of his intelligence by screaming, "This is madness! Madness! Aww, damn you! Damn you all to hell!" while Zira and Cornelius are going at it.

(I officially declare this to now be The Official Discussion of Nonexistent Inappropriate Versions of Planet of the Apes Thread.)

Mad Slanted Powers
03-28-2010, 05:00 PM
Taylor gonna get him some funky monkey lovin'.

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 05:01 PM
No, he won't. Zira thought he was just too damned ugly. Unless maybe Dr. Zaius struck some sort of bargain while he was tied up, and Taylor was into orangutan dudes.

Mad Slanted Powers
03-28-2010, 05:04 PM
No, he won't. Zira thought he was just too damned ugly. Unless maybe Dr. Zaius struck some sort of bargain while he was tied up, and Taylor was into orangutan dudes.Yeah, he's into kinky stuff. You saw how he had him tied up at the end.

Rocketboy
03-28-2010, 09:56 PM
You guys are leaving out the best part: the dinner scene that turns into a poop-flinging fight.

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 09:57 PM
That was awesome. Funny thing is, it was Brent who started it, not one of the apes!

2-1B
03-28-2010, 10:09 PM
"2 Apes, 1 Astronaut" !

Mad Slanted Powers
03-28-2010, 10:20 PM
That all happened after Lucius said, "Ah, not this crap again."

El Chuxter
03-28-2010, 11:44 PM
And everyone who only saw the theatrical cut thought they were hosing down the humans because they thought they were unsanitary. They never got to see the real reason.