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View Full Version : Death of Padme, why? (merged)



jedi-cpa
05-19-2005, 07:21 PM
OK, there is no medical reason per the medical droid...

Now Anakin lives...does Palpatine basically save anakin by using the dark power he speaks of...thus resulting in padmes death?

Or does she just die because...and anakin just lives because...and palpatine made up the whole "power to keep people from dying" bit.

Slicker
05-19-2005, 07:24 PM
The way I saw it was that Padme died from a broken heart from Anakin giving into the dark side. She didn't want to go on without Anakin.

Beast
05-19-2005, 08:31 PM
Ayep. She lost her will to live, after she lost Anakin. She basically died of a broken heart. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Veers
05-19-2005, 10:00 PM
The way I saw it was that Padme died from a broken heart from Anakin giving into the dark side. She didn't want to go on without Anakin.

That's right. She did die from a broken heart. :(

basschick
05-19-2005, 11:29 PM
isn't this the same padme who grew up as a politician, caring strongly about others and making changes as a very young queen and senator? now she's just a weepy person who dies of a broken heart.

bah!

DarkCloud
05-19-2005, 11:54 PM
hcmmm i dunnno from wut i saw, it seems the reason why padme died is because of anakin's revival. i think its impossible for anyone to survive that blaze and palpatine just used the dark side to revive anakin, thus his notion of saving padme was sarificed. how can anyone die or a broken heart? unless commit suicide....

i just like the part when vader when "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" lol that was hilarious:crazed:

stillakid
05-20-2005, 03:14 AM
Uh, yeah, this was one of the weakest parts of the film. She loses the will to live? Huh? Because of Anakin? Puhlease. She had two kids to live for, didn't she? Heck, the way these films play out, Padme is a more tragic and idiotic character than Anakin ever was. First she inexplicably falls truly madly deeply in love with a guy she knows is f'd up, then she somehow magically dies even in the face of giving birth.

I mean, wow. And this is okay with some of you? You bought that? :confused:

dr_evazan22
05-20-2005, 09:13 AM
I find more fault with Portmans acting then I do with the story. She didn't act preggers, or like she was giving birth.

JON9000
05-20-2005, 10:20 AM
Uh, yeah, this was one of the weakest parts of the film. She loses the will to live? Huh? Because of Anakin? Puhlease. She had two kids to live for, didn't she? Heck, the way these films play out, Padme is a more tragic and idiotic character than Anakin ever was. First she inexplicably falls truly madly deeply in love with a guy she knows is f'd up, then she somehow magically dies even in the face of giving birth.

I mean, wow. And this is okay with some of you? You bought that? :confused:

I thought it was just fine. If you didn't buy into it because you didn't buy the set-up, so be it. But standing on its own, I thought the scene was handled nicely enough (and I thought juxtaposing it with the birth of Vader was very cool).

If there is one thing lacking in Star Wars, it is world-weary cynicism. In fact, that was part of what made SW so odd-ball when it came out- it was the era of Chinatown. It's pretty refreshing actually.

basschick
05-20-2005, 11:02 AM
JON9000 - i don't think it's cynisism at all. come on - no one actually dies of a broken heart. the original star wars movie was refreshing and intimate, but also nothing happened in it that was just plain silly.

i love fantasy and science fiction, not just star wars. the writer has to give me a way to suspend my disbelief - and most do.

making a character who was previously committed, involved, strong and active die very quickly of a broken heart just doesn't give me a reason to believe :( even when people WANT to die of a broken heart, they don't.

JON9000
05-20-2005, 11:26 AM
That reminds me of a conversation Peter Benchly had with Spielberg.

Benchly: You can't have the shark die by having an air tank in its mouth shot, Steve, nobody is going to buy into something that dumb...

Spielberg: Pete, if I have the audience wrapped for two hours I can take them wherever the hell I want in the last two minutes and they will follow me blindly.

I cheered when the shark was shot, and since I fully expected that would be how Padme died going into this, I was fully willing to accept it. I hope it didn't ruin the movie for you if you didn't dig it. :(

It's drama, and no more nonsensical that the ending of Romeo & Juliet, IMHO.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 11:41 AM
It's drama, and no more nonsensical that the ending of Romeo & Juliet, IMHO.

You DIDN'T just compare Lucas and ROTS to William Shakespeare, did you? :sur:

JON9000
05-20-2005, 12:25 PM
You DIDN'T just compare Lucas and ROTS to William Shakespeare, did you? :sur:
Once you put the eyes and the teeth in, you can't help but be naughty! :D

bigbarada
05-20-2005, 01:33 PM
I didn't buy the reason behind Padme's death either. It makes her into a very selfish and despicable character, IMO. If two children are not enough of a reason to live, then she is a moron.

2-1B
05-20-2005, 01:50 PM
In the last movie Padme said she wasn't afraid to die and was dying a little bit each day since Anakin came back into her life. So when he goes nuts and she is attacked by her own husband, she is so overcome with grief that she gives up. *shrug*

Obviously they should have made the right choice and had an abortion. :)

El Chuxter
05-20-2005, 03:30 PM
Yep, she completely lost it because she went from being so strong that she made Leia look spineless to being a complete pansy in this movie. This was a thoroughly lame death for her, but she got more dignity in it than anyone else who died.

Sith Lord 0498
05-20-2005, 06:14 PM
This is one of the glaring plotholes in the films. The notion of dying from a broken heart is a very realistic idea and would make perfect sense for Padme's character. To be honest, I'm surprised an earlier post actually said that doesn't happen in real life. It is very real--especially with elderly couples who've been married for 50+ years. Yeah, I know the argument would be that their age plays a huge role in letting their bodies shut down easier, but the point is that it still happens. But I don't want to get into any further as this would be a topic more appropriate for the Rancor Pit.

The problem with using this rationale in ROTS is because Padme has twins. Yes, Anakin betrayed her and broke her heart, but she has just given birth to two living reminders of the man she loved. Darth Vader may have eclipsed Anakin Skywalker, but that Jedi is alive in Luke and Leia (until his redemption). It does make her appear selfish. The story should've made her mortally injured by the Force choke.

JediTricks
05-21-2005, 01:10 AM
It's drama, and no more nonsensical that the ending of Romeo & Juliet, IMHO.As I remember it, Juliet feels so lost without Romeo because of the families' disputes that she decides she will have him by faking her own suicide via undrunk poison to shed herself of her familial bonds, but like a lovelorn idiot her foolish decision forgets to tell her love of this plot and Romeo, thinking Juliet has killed herself, decides he cannot live without her and drinks the prop poison; Juliet, waking from her false death, sees that her trickery has unintentionally caused her love to kill himself and she then stabs herself to death. Both die because of physical actions brought on by emotional trauma, but physical actions none the less.



The notion of dying from a broken heart is a very realistic idea and would make perfect sense for Padme's character. To be honest, I'm surprised an earlier post actually said that doesn't happen in real life. It is very real--especially with elderly couples who've been married for 50+ years. Yeah, I know the argument would be that their age plays a huge role in letting their bodies shut down easier, but the point is that it still happens. That's a different set of circumstances, you're talking about old people who are already weakened hearts, they have preexisting conditions and as they're dying any sensors would obviously be showing their heart muscles going into arrest or being poisoned with too much adrenaline, in the movie we're told in no uncertain circumstances that Padme is NOT physically in any danger at all *as* she was dying, which would certainly cover her heart taking emotional stress so hard that it was shutting down and that's obviously not the case.

You do make a good point about her dying being selfish since she had these 2 kids, but in order to make her not look selfish maybe it was a fatal case of postpartum depression. :rolleyes: ;)

2-1B
05-21-2005, 02:10 AM
In the end though, Padme did the right thing. Were she to live it would have had to involve a great coverup because as long as she lived, then the child would live on and be at risk. Vader wanted to overthrow and Emperor and rule with Padme . . . she said she couldn't follow that path and that was it. Game over for Padme. She obviously couldn't trust Vader/Anakin and I bet Palpatine wouldn't have let her live anyway.

Way to go and take one for the team, Miss Dyin' Padme ! :crazed:

Now please Hasbro, give us the figure. :)

Kidhuman
05-21-2005, 02:30 AM
She does tell Obi-Wan that she cant live without Anakin. He was lost and she gave up. Caesar is right, had she lived, Palps would have killed her anyway. It all goes along with the lies that Palps fed Anakin by being able to save people by turning to the dark side. He had the premonition of her dying at child birth, but not who had done the damage.

JediTricks
05-21-2005, 02:52 AM
Obi-Wan hid, Yoda hid, why couldn't Padme have hid? I never liked the idea when it was brought up 3 years ago after AOTC, but now I wish the theory that Padme was slowly dying from the wound she received from the Nexu during the Geonosis arena battle had been the path Lucas chose, then we could have known that Padme could have stayed in hiding on Alderraan with Leia and Bail for a few years before she died yet we still would have known she was destined to die before ANH.

2-1B
05-21-2005, 02:57 AM
Sure Padme could have hid but as Ben says in ROTJ, The Emperor knew that any offspring of Anakin would have been a threat and that means that they would either be slaughtered or converted to the Dark Side.

So, Padme could have hid but that would involve a hunt for the child. This is why I maintain that it's not a big deal for Luke to be kept at the Lars' place . . . they can't find what they don't know they are looking for. :D

JediTricks
05-21-2005, 04:08 AM
Not if Palpatine already believes Padme to be dead, which I believe he does, as I explained here: http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=28445
(keep in mind, her funeral in the movie comes after the Frankenstein scene). There'd be no hunt for the spawn of Skywalker, which I might add Palpatine never makes any reference to in Ep 3 that I can remember.

And I just read Xir's comment (http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showpost.php?p=400757&postcount=131) pointing out that Luke asks Leia about her REAL mother, this supposes that Luke and Leia both know that she's adopted, and therefore not talking about Bail's wife, it's an excellent point and one that I really don't think "newbornLeia's Force imprints" will be plausible in covering up.

2-1B
05-21-2005, 04:39 AM
Vader would know about Padme still being alive and he would be looking for her. He "can't live without her" so if she is just in hiding, he's going to look for her and he knows about the kid. Palps doesn't, but Vader does.

I agree that they are talking about Padme on Endor and thanks guys for pointing out that Leia says "somehow I've always known" in regard to Luke being her brother - you know, that line is so cheesed up and shaky that it makes the "images, feelings" line even more abstract. :)

sith_killer_99
05-21-2005, 10:27 AM
That's right. She did die from a broken heart.

So Anakin did kill her, from a certain point of view. :crazed:

stillakid
05-21-2005, 06:54 PM
Oh yeah, this is what it's like. I'd almost forgotten the extent to which people will go to rationalize problems away. :D

Look, it's pretty simple. SOMEHOW Palps knows that Ani choked Padme out on that landing platform. That's pretty ridiculous because there is no logical way for him to have known that, but since we know that he does, we also know that he knows that she died from the injuries. How he knows that, again, we don't know. But since we're inventing rationalizations left and right to cover George's arse, we might as well assume that Palps knew about the choking and then he assumed that she died from that injury right there and then. Pretty simple scenario. With that in mind, she could easily have lived in hiding somewhere until she died during Leia's toddler years. The bad guys would never have been the wiser to her survival or the kids.

JediTricks
05-24-2005, 06:14 AM
Why are we assuming Palpatine would go looking for Padme when he never even tracked down Obi-Wan? He knows Obi-Wan is out there, is healthy, is capable of defeating Anakin at that time, yet he either doesn't care or foolishly puts his faith in the Jedi-hunting capabilities of his troops which never pays off since Obi-Wan survives to ANH.

Slicker
05-24-2005, 06:26 AM
Why are we assuming Palpatine would go looking for Padme when he never even tracked down Obi-Wan? He knows Obi-Wan is out there, is healthy, is capable of defeating Anakin at that time, yet he either doesn't care or foolishly puts his faith in the Jedi-hunting capabilities of his troops which never pays off since Obi-Wan survives to ANH.But the hunting does pay off from a certain point of view. Ben knowing that he is being hunted goes into hiding thus making him an all but non existent threat. So he isn't killed but is neutralized on Tatooine far, far away from any of the action.

Droid
05-24-2005, 08:35 AM
SOMEHOW Palps knows that Ani choked Padme out on that landing platform. That's pretty ridiculous because there is no logical way for him to have known that, but since we know that he does, we also know that he knows that she died from the injuries. How he knows that, again, we don't know.

How about Palpatine viewing Mustafar security tapes?

good shot jansen
05-24-2005, 01:27 PM
there are so many different ways that gl could have dealt with padme's death, but he was looking for closure with this movie.

as padme was obviously injured due to the choke hold of anakin, it would have made sense for a discussion to be held about hiding padme and the twins. they could have faked the funeral to cover all possible tracks, and then have padme go with bail and leia to alderann to die at some point in the near future due to her injuries sustained by the choke hold. palpatine told vader that he killed her, and with a staged funeral it would then be confirmed and there would be no need to track her down.

i don't think it was necessary for us to see padme die on screen, that really was a goofball decision. just knowing that she's mortally wounded and dying due to the choke hold, but having her travel in hiding to alderann would have tied in the story better (imho)

2-1B
05-24-2005, 01:58 PM
stillakid how is it a bad rationalization to assume that as Palps returns to Coruscant to rebuild Vader, the same Coruscant that was home to Padme, WTF is so hard to understand about him knowing of her fate ?

Christ, Jar Jar Binks knew because he was there following her corpse and considering she was a Senator from his hom planet and his same Senate, I'd think Palps knows.

Sometimes you accept offscreen events as logical but when it has to do with a movie you don't like, then it's a rationalization or bad filmmaking.

jross2276
05-24-2005, 02:19 PM
Im not that annoyed that Padme dies, I think the plot of her character died long before she does. Padme doesn't have one scene where she is kicking some ***...mabe a fleet of troopers try to stop her from leaving Courasant, and she takes them out.....mabe during the final battle she shoots and delivers a distraction to Anikin, allowing obi to deliver the fatal CHOP....mabe evan leaving in the scenes where she has any credibility, seeing her involved with the start of the rebellion would redeem her character in this film. I am a fan of Padme but honestly every scene she was in was laughable. She wasn't even that nice to look at! Most scenes she was poorly lit, and the elaborate costumes we have come to expect from her were lacking...except for the one that was cut...you know the one from the poster!
As for her dying, She would’t seem so weak if she had any strength in the film. I think it ts plausible that she gives up....not just because of anikin, but because the the entire galaxy she was trying to help was destroyed. I think she knew the score....if she had any idea the children were to be split up...it would be like sophies Choice. Medically speaking women do die in child birth, she was injured by ankin and delivered twins If her body was giving out and she didn't have the will to fight, of course she could die from a “broken heart”
as for Leia’s memory. perhaps If you separate the two comments “she died when I was very young” and “she always seemed sad”, the first could mean she knew she was adopted and the latter, that everything she was told about her mother was tragic and sad.

JediTricks
05-24-2005, 08:47 PM
Medically speaking women do die in child birth, she was injured by ankin and delivered twins If her body was giving out and she didn't have the will to fightExcept the medics at the center said there was nothing physically wrong with her, not even exhaustion.

Rappertuniewa
05-25-2005, 03:34 PM
Personally, i think her death scene would have made alot more sense if the med droid hadn't come out and said "there's nothing wrong with her" and just said "she's dying"

2-1B
05-26-2005, 02:10 AM
What about Anakin's prophecy ? She knew he was having those dreams, maybe after the Sith hit the fan :p she resigned herself to fate.

Kidhuman
05-27-2005, 09:24 PM
Okay, We all heard Plaps tale of Darth Plageius(sp?) and how he can manipulate midis to save lives. Now, if Palps was taught by him, or even was talking about himslef, he knows these tricks because Plageius taught his apprentice all he knew.

So Palps, knows this trick to manipulate the midis. Padme is carrying 2 midi filled babies, so he can manipulate them in her body. He manipulated them to kill her during childbirth, and she couldnt stop them. SHe was the thing to turn Anakin away from Palps and he had to deal with it this way.

Thoughts????

darthvyn
05-27-2005, 10:35 PM
i'm of the opinion that palps did even more than that. i'm not too keen on him using the midis in the twins, but i think he did have a hand in her demise. i also feel that he used the force to make the tusken raiders kidnap and torture shmi. why would they just go and do that? doesn't make much sense...

Rocketboy
05-27-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm still not convinced that Plapy's master was Plageius.
Palpy tells Anakin this tale of a Sith that learned these tricks from his master, but later tells Anakin that they could discover these powers together. Why does he need Anakin's help if his master taught him his skills?

JediTricks
05-27-2005, 11:10 PM
Having the twins kill Padme from the inside is not likely, that would have shown up as a medical issue but she was said to be medically sound. And since midichlorians are in every living thing apparently, why would Palps need frail infants to do his dirty work when he could have manipulated her midis himself? And why kill her that way at all when the threats to his life, the children, survived?

Bossk77
05-27-2005, 11:35 PM
Plagius's apprentice "sidious" had nothing to do with the twins or padames death. She died because when Anakin turned it killed the part of her that wanted to live. She couldnt bear it. Sidious just said she was dead, becuase he knew that as long as Anakin thought she lived, Sidious could never have full control over Vader. Anakin just assumed the child had died. had Sidious known more he would have said twins or mentioned it.

2-1B
05-28-2005, 04:12 AM
Agreed for the most part with Bossk.

Padme knew of Anakin's dreams about her dying and once everything went south she seemed resigned to the prophecy of his dream and she gave in.

Rocketboy, you seem to be mixing "cheating death" with "saving others" which I maintain to be two different concepts. :)

Kidhuman
05-28-2005, 10:03 AM
Rocketboy, the Darkside is full of lies and deceipt. Palps did nothing but lie to Anakin, so what would make this any different. He needs this measure to lure him to the darkside.

Bossk, Sidious used the midis to kill her, covered with the force, it was undetectable. They said reasons unexplained we are losing her.

Vyn, I hapopen to agree that Sidious used the Tuskens to kill his mom as well.

Caesar, she insisted she wouldnt die, as strong as she is, she wouldnt just give up. NOthing to live for??Two kids is a damn good reason.

JT, perhaps he used her midis as well.

sith_killer_99
05-28-2005, 10:32 AM
It is an interesting theory. But GL seems to be a bit of a romantic, also, the indications from the novel are that she dies from a broken heart. Also it gives a double edge to the phrase "I'm afraid you killed her." that Palpy says to Anakin/Vader. The Sith are masters of deception, but it is often cloaked in truth to lend credability. Remember Yoda's fatal mistake when he ignored Dooku's statement to Obi-Wan that the Senate was under the control of a Dark Lord of the Sith.

I also subscribe to the theory that Sidious had something to do with Shmi's death and the Tuskens.

Bossk77
05-28-2005, 01:23 PM
I still stay my original course. If palpy had killed Pady he would have know there were twins on board, he would have sensed that in killing her. or sensed that she had given birth and proceded to hunt down the twins and kill them. But he didnt know. Broken heart was implied the whole time.... Besides you know Lucas... he would have hade her her convulse or glow weird etc if sidious was killing her... Any time there has been a force kill there has been a physical body reaction. She just died. ANakins dream that he told her was that she died in child birth...self for-filling prophey.

I believe the real father of luke and leia is... TOM JONES!! :crazed:

Bossk77
05-28-2005, 01:33 PM
I'm still not convinced that Plapy's master was Plageius.
Palpy tells Anakin this tale of a Sith that learned these tricks from his master, but later tells Anakin that they could discover these powers together. Why does he need Anakin's help if his master taught him his skills?


I think that Sidious doesnt want Vader to know the extent of his powers. Sidious is the sole survivor from the sith wars. He wants Vader to believe he is vulnerable. The thirst for power keeps the sith going... He also wants to make Anakin feel needed and want to join. The fact that Vader is the only remaining soul other than yoda and obi that know that Sidous is who he is gives the Sid the advantage of leting Vader be the strong arm so that Sid can disapear again if he ever need to just like after the sith wars.

ANEEL
05-28-2005, 01:47 PM
I Know All Will Be Mad At Me For Saying This But It Is As My Main Man Said (obi) This Is My Point Of View.
Gl Is And Has Been Single For A While And Has Lost Touch With The Females, Which Is Why These New Movies Does Not Have The Same Feeling As Han/leia Had In The Love Factor.
She Has Lost The Will To Will Was The Worst Way The Mother Of Luke Could Have Died. I Mean Gl Could Have Added All Of What You Guys Are Saying But It Was Just Like The Droids Say We Dont Know She Is Medically Ok But Has Lost The Will To Will.
Maybe Knowing That It Was Her Vote That Got Palpatine Elected. Her Hubby Had Killed The Jedi And Went To The Dark Side, Now Is Leia Was Correct In Rotj When She Tells Luke About Her Mother Was All Wronge-her Character In Tpm And Aotc Was Great But In This Is Just Like A Sandtropper Who Believes Anythinh Ani Tells Her.
She Also Says To Ani Why Cant We Gop Back To The Old Days When There Was No War Or Plotting Just There Love , What The Hell Is This Girls Talkin About From The Start Ep1 To This Is All Plots Ans War.
Well I Said What I Wanted And Now You All Can Tear Me Apart.

beckmen
05-28-2005, 02:31 PM
Having Every First Letter Of Every Word In Caps Is More Distracting Than Using All Caps All The Time!

ANEEL
05-28-2005, 03:33 PM
thanks for the engilsh lession.
just trying to disuss the movie , not my grammer or writing.

Sith Lord 0498
05-28-2005, 04:43 PM
thanks for the engilsh lession.
just trying to disuss the movie , not my grammer or writing.

Perhaps it could've been pointed out to you in a better way, but beckmen's right. I didn't read your entire post because the caps made it hard for me to process the words and it hurt my eyes to try reading it. Please just be mindful of it in the future so everyone can read and respond to your opinions. I'm not trying to single you out. You're not the only person to post in such a manner. Hopefully, you'll make it one less person to do it. Thanks.

Bossk77
05-28-2005, 05:34 PM
Hopefully that is done... Lets take this a step further... If Sidious is so controling with the force, did he use to force to make Jar Jar do stupid things at the senate or was it that Jar Jar was simple and easily led by the nose? The question is valid, but my point is that the intention of a question is lost when to much thought is put into it.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-28-2005, 06:55 PM
Dying of a broken heart may have seemed lame, especially since she had her kids to still live for. However, if she had lived, Vader and Sidious may have found out and searched for the children. So, her death actually helped protect her children. Perhaps in some way in the back of her mind she knew that.

Kidhuman
05-28-2005, 11:40 PM
Palps could have sensed the twins and birth, but also if Yoda and Bens presence were there, it could have been confused with that. ALl he sensed was the force and midis in a strong level.

JimJamBonds
05-28-2005, 11:54 PM
Lets take this a step further... If Sidious is so controling with the force, did he use to force to make Jar Jar do stupid things at the senate or was it that Jar Jar was simple and easily led by the nose? The question is valid, but my point is that the intention of a question is lost when to much thought is put into it.

While it is true that Jar Jar is the one that says emergency powers should be given to Palps who is the one that calls for a vote of no confidence in E I? Shouldn't Padme should be taking some heat for this also? Or did Sidious use the force so she'd make a move that would likely put her home world senator in the big boys seat?

Jim Jam

2-1B
05-29-2005, 01:21 AM
Agreed Jim Jam, Padme was duped into putting that thug in office and she should take some heat. lol

posty, I like what you said about Padme's death actually helping the twins, and so kidhuman that's about all the more I can say on the matter. Could GLu have hinted at this better ? Yes.

stillakid
05-29-2005, 10:34 AM
Having Every First Letter Of Every Word In Caps Is More Distracting Than Using All Caps All The Time!

The anti-ee cummings. :D

JediTricks
05-29-2005, 10:23 PM
Dying of a broken heart may have seemed lame, especially since she had her kids to still live for. However, if she had lived, Vader and Sidious may have found out and searched for the children. So, her death actually helped protect her children. Perhaps in some way in the back of her mind she knew that.
I was originally going to respond to this point, about how Yoda and Obi-Wan went into hiding successfully, so Padme could have as well, but when I found I had made that point on previously I realized this thread was just an off-shoot of that topic, so I merely merged those threads together.

BTW, what's going to happen in 10 posts when you actually get to post count 333? :D

Mad Slanted Powers
05-30-2005, 01:28 PM
BTW, what's going to happen in 10 posts when you actually get to post count 333? :D

It will be a day long remembered. I will finally fulfill my destiny. I will become more powerful than any of you, and I will use my Mad Slanted Powers to destroy you all! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Or not.