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View Full Version : Original trilogy dialogue that doesn't quite match.



Droid
05-20-2005, 12:13 PM
I have seen Episode III, and I already have my own rationalizations of how some original trilogy dialogue doesn't necessarily contradict the prequels, but these are the ones that just don't sit well with me. My rationalizations are pretty stretched:

Obi-wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another.

This dialogue implied that Obi-wan did not know about Leia. Now,after Sith, we know he did. I know the argument could be made that Obi-wan knew about Leia, but just didn't consider her a viable option at that point, while Yoda did. But why didn't Obi-wan consider her an option? Because Obi-wan was dead? Because Yoda was getting old? Because Leia was less likely to accept the ways of the Force than Luke? ("You have a power I don't understand and could never have." while Luke immediately accepted the Force. The Farm breeds dreamers while Alderaan breeds politicians)

Did Obi-wan not consider Leia an option because if Luke turned evil Leia couldn't stop Vader, the Emperor, and Luke?

And if that is why Ben considered Luke their last hope, why did Yoda consider Leia a viable option?

This Return of the Jedi dialogue reinforces that even though Obi-wan knew about Leia, he didn't consider her an option.

Obi-wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our last hope.
Luke: Yoda spoke of another.
Obi-wan: The other he spoke of was your twin sister.

On another topic, this dialogue doesn't quite match up with the prequels either:

Luke: I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn't driven it from you
fully. Come with me.
Vader: Obi-wan once thought as you do.

In Sith Obi-wan doesn't argue that Anakin should not be killed. He does not aruge Anakin could be turned good again. He just doesn't want to be the one to kill Anakin. It is Padme that thinks there is still good in Anakin, not Obi-wan. And once Obi-wan gets to Mustafar he doesn't really try to talk Anakin out of his evil ways. I guess you could argue he isn't going for the kill and is being defensive until he says, "Then you are lost", but OBI-WAN is the first to light his saber. He doesn't really try to get Anakin to turn his back on the Emperor the way Vader said he did in Return of the Jedi. I guess you could excuse this one by saying on Mustafar Anakin could sense that Obi-wan thought there was still good in him until Anakin said "From my point of view the Jedi are evil."

And finally,

Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother, your real mother?
Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.
Luke: What do you remember?
Leia: Just images really, feelings.
Luke: Tell me.
Leia: She was very beautiful, kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?
Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.

After seeing Sith, there is no reason that Leia would remember Padme more than Luke. I guess you could say that Leia was "younger" than Luke since she was born second. She had more time in the womb, BUT NOT MUCH.

Also, Luke grew up, thanks to Obi-wan, with more of a sense of his real father than Leia probably did. Maybe the Organas raised Leia with her knowing full well who her mother was, or with the Organas telling Leia stories about her mother the way Obi-wan told Luke stories about his father. Maybe through her Force inclinations this caused Leia to have flashes of her mother Luke never did. Maybe following Jedi Luke was able to tap in to memories or visions of his mother. Maybe Leia had the "awakening spark" that Luke did not to tap into Padme memories and visions through the Force.

I don't know. Lucas could have written these things in such a way that these kinds of explanations weren't necessary.

I'd leave to hear what others think or what other justifications people might have for these possible continuity errors. I would like good explanations. I don't want to find problems in Star Wars movies.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 12:22 PM
I have seen Episode III, and I already have my own rationalizations of how some original trilogy dialogue doesn't necessarily contradict the prequels, but these are the ones that just don't sit well with me. My rationalizations are pretty stretched:

Obi-wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another.

This dialogue implied that Obi-wan did not know about Leia. Now,after Sith, we know he did. I know the argument could be made that Obi-wan knew about Leia, but just didn't consider her a viable option at that point, while Yoda did. But why didn't Obi-wan consider her an option?
Right. And probably the only way to handle this one accurately would have been for YODA to be the one at childbirth doling out the children so that Obi wasn't aware that there were twins.



On another topic, this dialogue doesn't quite match up with the prequels either:

Luke: I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn't driven it from you
fully. Come with me.
Vader: Obi-wan once thought as you do.

In Sith Obi-wan doesn't argue that Anakin should not be killed. He does not aruge Anakin could be turned good again. He just doesn't want to be the one to kill Anakin. It is Padme that thinks there is still good in Anakin, not Obi-wan.
Right again. Obi NEVER believes that there is any hope for Anakin. I think that he has pretty much written him off somewhere in the middle of the film if not before. Anakin is a whiny impatient guy which is why Obi has to keep telling him to be patient.



And finally,
After seeing Sith, there is no reason that Leia would remember Padme more than Luke.
Right again, and the only way to handle this one would have been to not have that birth sequence at all. Not only was her pregnancy not believable given the timeline and her poor acting, it sets up the problem you describe. It appears to be in there just for the gratuitous scene on Tatooine when Obi hands off the kid. I gotta say, I couldn't hold in an audible laugh upon seeing Owen standing there ala' Luke staring at the twin suns. :rolleyes: Homages are okay, but that was pretty over the top...it played like one of those in jokes except that what it is based on hasn't happened yet in story time.




I don't want to find problems in Star Wars movies.
And yet it is impossible to avoid because the Prequels are chock full o' them. Nice work! :)

Surge38
05-20-2005, 01:39 PM
Obi-wan: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another..

Well, I have my own thought on this one.

It seems to me that Obiwan had not thought of Leia as a viable option. Since he grew up watching over Luke, he was able to get into contact with Luke and begin him on his training. Even though it was very basic, he did get Luke started, and it is implied that Luke worked on his skills after Obiwan's death. Also keep in mind the state of the universe. The Empire is on the attack. Luke's force vision revealed han and Leia were going to DIE. And the galaxy is in dire straights. At this stage in the game, with Obi-wan being dead, and Yoda essentially stuck on the planet, I doubt Obiwan was thinking it would be a viable option to start Leia from scratch. Yoda was simply reminding him Leia IS still an option (not a GREAt option, but still an option.)



Luke: I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn't driven it from you
fully. Come with me.
Vader: Obi-wan once thought as you do.


Well, keep in mind something. BEFORE Mustafar...both Yoda and Mace were arguing that they didn't trust him. Yoda even went as far as to say they misinterpreted the profecy. It WAS Obi-Wan who argued that Anakin would never let him down.

Also, as someone else pointed out, He Obiwan waited to come out of the ship to confront Vader...he let Padme talk to hm first. One could argue he was waiting to see if Padme could reach him before showing himself.



And finally,

Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother, your real mother?
Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.
Luke: What do you remember?
Leia: Just images really, feelings.



Images and feelings, huh? Sounds like un-knowing visions in the force to me...

2-1B
05-20-2005, 01:57 PM
Obi-Wan goes to see Padme and tells her that Anakin is in danger. She asks, "from the Sith?" and he says no, from himself. Later Padme tells Vader that Obi-Wan cares about them and wants to help.

So in ROTJ we hear Vader say "Obi-Wan once thought as you do."

I had a big smile in the theater, I loved that connection and I even thought to myself about how people were going to be pointing out the 'continuity flaw' on the internet. Looks like I was right on that one. lol

Bantha274
05-20-2005, 02:25 PM
Regarding the "That boy was our only hope", "No, there is another" issue, It may have to do with Leia being the adopted daughter of a Senator. If you recall, in AOTC, Obi wan tells Anakin, referring to Padme, "She's a politician, and they are not to be trusted."

Maybe in ESB, Obi-Wan felt that since Leia was "basically" a political figure, It would be hard for her to learn the ways of the force. She was tainted by the politics of the galaxy. Jedi and Politicians look at things from totally different viewpoints.

Just a possibility, but a plausible explanation nonetheless, imho.:)