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View Full Version : Your new name is Lord, um...er...VADER! Yeah, that's it...Vader.



stillakid
05-20-2005, 01:02 PM
As a curious parallel to Padme's instant naming session with the kids she holds no love for, how exactly does Palps arrive at that name anyway? It is so off the cuff that I was a little disappointed that there was exactly 0% explanation of why Vader is Vader. I don't know exactly what I was looking for, but after that interesting discussion about Plagious (sp?), I was hoping for some ultra-cool Sith history tie-in or something.

Vader, that's it. Yeah, Vader! :sur:

Bantha274
05-20-2005, 01:10 PM
Dude, why don't you just say you don't like ROTS and leave it at that? It seems pretty obvious judging by all your posts. Why shred it to pieces so much?

stillakid
05-20-2005, 01:15 PM
Dude, why don't you just say you don't like ROTS and leave it at that? It seems pretty obvious judging by all your posts. Why shred it to pieces so much?

Dude, why should I stop at such a general and generic statement like that? Why don't you counter the "attacks" from me and A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE with a slew of positive threads extolling the virtues of the film instead of trying to defend the film by attacking me?

And I really haven't shredded it to pieces that much. Only a couple of major issues stick out. This Vader naming thread was just a curiosity for me. That's all. Take your "I love everything with Star Wars emblazoned on it no matter what" attitude someplace else please. :) We're trying to have an adult critique and discussion here.

2-1B
05-20-2005, 01:28 PM
Even though we know that Vader carries the "father" connotation from the days of old, I like the thought of Vader being a riff on Invader which, frankly, he does to the Jedi Temple. That's why I like it.

Darth Maul was an attack dog who mauled over things, Darth Tyrannus was instrumental in bringing tyranny to the Republic, and Darth Sidious was the phantom menace moving behind the scenes, an insidious one to be sure . . . Darth Vader invades the Jedi Temple. Classic. :)

Bantha274
05-20-2005, 01:39 PM
Dude, why should I stop at such a general and generic statement like that? Why don't you counter the "attacks" from me and A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE with a slew of positive threads extolling the virtues of the film instead of trying to defend the film by attacking me?

And I really haven't shredded it to pieces that much. Only a couple of major issues stick out. This Vader naming thread was just a curiosity for me. That's all. Take your "I love everything with Star Wars emblazoned on it no matter what" attitude someplace else please. :) We're trying to have an adult critique and discussion here.

Stillakid, I'm not attacking you and I apologize. I'm just having a bad day at work dealing with co-workers who have zero respect for the saga and just want bad-mouth the whole thing.

And to respond, I'm not a "everything SW is great" fanboy. Just someone who's had SW be a huge part of my life for that last 28 years and now that's it's over, well, I'm kinda saddened by it all.

JON9000
05-20-2005, 02:20 PM
To be honest, I am glad the "incidental exposition" was kept to a minimum in this one. It really helped with the pacing.

Stillakid, your question reminds me of a Joke:

One day, the three wise men went to visit the newborn king in Bethlehem. The last of the wise men was very tall, and on the way into the manger, he hit his head on a cross beam and said: "Jesus Christ!"

Mary looked at Joseph and said, "remember that one, honey, it sure beats Clyde!"

I couldn't tell you why Vader got his name, but it sure beats Darth Clyde! :crazed:

stillakid
05-20-2005, 04:31 PM
Even though we know that Vader carries the "father" connotation from the days of old, I like the thought of Vader being a riff on Invader which, frankly, he does to the Jedi Temple. That's why I like it.

Darth Maul was an attack dog who mauled over things, Darth Tyrannus was instrumental in bringing tyranny to the Republic, and Darth Sidious was the phantom menace moving behind the scenes, an insidious one to be sure . . . Darth Vader invades the Jedi Temple. Classic. :)

Huh, that's pretty interesting. Thanks! :)





To be honest, I am glad the "incidental exposition" was kept to a minimum in this one. It really helped with the pacing.
I agree really. While I wanted to hear more, I think that had it actually been done, I would be cringing at it. Sort of like Yoda's OBVIOUS statement that he's going into exile. No sh**. Not everything has to be rammed down our throats. :)

But the way Palps just comes up with the name so quickly seemed kind of odd to me. I mean, these aren't normal names like John or Bob or Dick...Vader isn't exactly on the tip of the tongue for anyone. So where and why did Palps come up with it and is there really any logic to it within the story itself?


Stillakid, your question reminds me of a Joke:

One day, the three wise men went to visit the newborn king in Bethlehem. The last of the wise men was very tall, and on the way into the manger, he hit his head on a cross beam and said: "Jesus Christ!"

Mary looked at Joseph and said, "remember that one, honey, it sure beats Clyde!"

I couldn't tell you why Vader got his name, but it sure beats Darth Clyde!

LOL! lol

Sith Lord 0498
05-20-2005, 05:05 PM
I think the problem with this scene lies in the way the line was delivered. There is too much of a pause between "Darth" and "Vader", and the inflection of the syllables in "Vader" gives the impression that the name just kind of came to him instead of a deliberate intention.

Whether this was a flub on Ian McDiarmid's part or Lucas' direction, we'll never know, but I believe that is what made it seem like Sidious was pulling "Darth Vader" out of his a**.

sith_killer_99
05-21-2005, 09:59 AM
I think the problem with this scene lies in the way the line was delivered. There is too much of a pause between "Darth" and "Vader", and the inflection of the syllables in "Vader" gives the impression that the name just kind of came to him instead of a deliberate intention.

Whether this was a flub on Ian McDiarmid's part or Lucas' direction, we'll never know, but I believe that is what made it seem like Sidious was pulling "Darth Vader" out of his a**.

I agree. The way the book portrays it, Sidious sort of looks into the Force before coming up with the name. Remember, Sidious' main talent is his ability to read the future with the force. Kinda like he saw some significance in the name Vader, perhaps it was an intentional play on the word Father?!?!

In any case the film didn't portray it very well. :(

Imperial Monarche
05-21-2005, 11:02 AM
Dude, why should I stop at such a general and generic statement like that? Why don't you counter the "attacks" from me and A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE with a slew of positive threads extolling the virtues of the film instead of trying to defend the film by attacking me?

And I really haven't shredded it to pieces that much. Only a couple of major issues stick out. This Vader naming thread was just a curiosity for me. That's all. Take your "I love everything with Star Wars emblazoned on it no matter what" attitude someplace else please. :) We're trying to have an adult critique and discussion here.

Don't let our new posters get you down just yet, stilla. This person is pretty new at this and hasn't gotten used to your creative criticism. That person got the impression you hated the film by your posts so far, whereas I actually got the impression that you found the film quite decent compared to the other films.

Along with the post topic, I had heard early on that we would find out the origin of Vader's name. I guess that was the origin, but I agree with stilla, I figured there would be more to it. But, I wasn't disappointed. I also thought that we would find out why Obi-Wan goes by Ben in the OT.

darthvyn
05-21-2005, 01:05 PM
maybe the darths are named after others that shared similar traits, like how popes create new names for themselves in honor of previous ones. perhaps the last darth vader was instrumental in the last time the sith came to power and ruled the galaxy. i dunno, it's an idea. actually one that i kind of like!

chewie
05-28-2005, 05:05 AM
You'd think that for a guy who plotted for years to get Anakin to be his apprentice he would have thought of an appropriate name long in advance which required no thought to create once it was actually put into practice.

MaquisWarrior
05-30-2005, 01:36 AM
If Palpy was COUNTRY:
It'd been DARTH BROOKS!!
Remember in that one Episode of Malcolm in the Middle where the older brother Francis is miliary school and the General Spengler goes into his room to break up a fight and as he's chastizing Francis he looks at Garth Brooks' Poster and says:"..you also ruined this room by putting up a picture of Darth Vader! Take it down now!!"


I love the lost scene where Anakin tells Padme to rent some Sailor Moon costumes because Palpy wants to do the Seven Ronin and Obi-Wan and Palpy don't get along. She could be Tami, he was going to be Yumi, and Palpy is always Tummy. (From the Novelization) "Three little maids from school are we..." Ani sings. Padme is stunned with her mouth open. "Trying to learn our ABC's," Ani continues. "Everything is source of fun..." Then the scene where he says that he turned to the dark side for her continues.

JediTricks
05-31-2005, 03:56 AM
Honestly, I wish if Lucas wasn't going to explain the Sith naming method in the movie, that he would have just played it out straight, no pause from Palpatine, no "Darth... Vader?" type comment, just lay down the law as if he actually knew what he was talking about rather than trying to pull it out of thin air on the spot. Of course, I'd much rather know HOW he picked that name, this is after all the origin of Darth Vader we're seeing, but if we can't have it then no halfway BS please.

hango fett
05-31-2005, 06:18 AM
what i thought was going on with all of palpy's voice changes was the he had become a direct channel for the dark side to speak. and the dark side just picked vader. your right, stillakid, they didn't explain why he is known as vader, but i guess lucas didn't see the need for that....
HF

stillakid
05-31-2005, 08:03 AM
After watching this again, it became apparent where George dropped the ball. Palp's dialogue goes something like this:


PALPS
Good. Good. The Force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth . . . Vader.


While this is "appropriate" dialogue, had something like "...you will be like a father to the new Empire ..." or something like that....a reference to "father" is the point and would have given some motivation to the word "Vader" instead of making it seem like he pulled it out of thin air.

MaquisWarrior
05-31-2005, 08:12 AM
I like when ANi-boy tells Obi-Wan "My Empire!" Cool scene!

The Overlord Returns
05-31-2005, 09:02 AM
Considering that Palps obviously knows Padme is pregnant, it's rather easy to assume he's not just pulling "Vader" out of his ***. I took it as Palpatine being slightly amused by the significance of the name, myself.

JimJamBonds
05-31-2005, 10:25 AM
To be honest, I am glad the "incidental exposition" was kept to a minimum in this one. It really helped with the pacing.

Stillakid, your question reminds me of a Joke:

One day, the three wise men went to visit the newborn king in Bethlehem. The last of the wise men was very tall, and on the way into the manger, he hit his head on a cross beam and said: "Jesus Christ!"

Mary looked at Joseph and said, "remember that one, honey, it sure beats Clyde!"

I couldn't tell you why Vader got his name, but it sure beats Darth Clyde! :crazed:

EXACTLY, Vader is better then Darth Mike or Darth James. Its not as if there are any 'normal' names in the saga with the exception of Luke and Leia. Vader is more then fine, and personally I liked that pause for Palps to consider a new name.

Jim Jam

darthvyn
05-31-2005, 04:19 PM
yeah, i don't think it would be necessary to tie in the word vader to the word father... it's a subtle allusion to the word. vader doesn't mean father in sithish, it probably has a rich history all it's own in the sith tradition. while i would've enjoyed an explanation of the naming practices of the sith, i don't feel cheated without it. and it really would've been hard to fit in without it getting lambasted as bad writing.

JimJamBonds
05-31-2005, 11:17 PM
while i would've enjoyed an explanation of the naming practices of the sith, i don't feel cheated without it. and it really would've been hard to fit in without it getting lambasted as bad writing.

I would have been fine with it in the novel but that would have brought the movie to a grinding halt had that been explained.

Jim Jam

stillakid
06-01-2005, 12:56 AM
Considering that Palps obviously knows Padme is pregnant, it's rather easy to assume he's not just pulling "Vader" out of his ***. I took it as Palpatine being slightly amused by the significance of the name, myself.

That's fine, but the way the entire line is written makes it seem as though Palps specifically isn't thinking about the Padme thing and is referencing his first few words in the dialogue seen here:


PALPS
Good. Good. The Force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth . . . Vader.

It's the "henceforth" that implies that Palps is alluding to something that he just said. And he just said: "The Force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become." What do either of those two statements have to do with Anakin being a father?

No, no, don't get up. I'll answer that for you. :) Nothing. Nothing to do with Anakin being a father. So why say "henceforth"? :confused:

The Overlord Returns
06-01-2005, 01:54 AM
hence·forth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hnsfôrth)
adv.
From this time forth; from now on.

"From now on, you shall be known as Darth...Vader."

Henceforth does have NOTHING to do with Anakin being a father. I think you're confusing the meaning of the word. Essentially he's saying, now that you're a sith, you shall be known as Darth Vader.

2-1B
06-01-2005, 01:55 AM
Vader . . . invader . . . he invades the Jedi Temple, he invades the Mustafar control room (well, he was "Welcome" there lol ), he invades the Tantive 4, he invades the Hoth Ice Base, and . . . I don't think he invades anything in ROTJ. lol

The Overlord Returns
06-01-2005, 02:01 AM
I don't think he invades anything in ROTJ. lol

Only our hearts!

2-1B
06-01-2005, 02:48 AM
:cry: :cry: :cry: and our souls. :cry:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Sids is just saying that now that you're a Sith you gotta have a new name so from now on you're gonna be Darth Gumdrops or whatever. I agree it has nothing to do with being a father, I think that whole Vader=Father thing is overrated m'self. :)

stillakid
06-01-2005, 07:13 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: and our souls. :cry:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Sids is just saying that now that you're a Sith you gotta have a new name so from now on you're gonna be Darth Gumdrops or whatever. I agree it has nothing to do with being a father, I think that whole Vader=Father thing is overrated m'self. :)
Yeah, whatever... :ermm:

But the point has always been that "Vader" just comes out of nowhere like Palps just made it up on the spot. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but he sure made it seem like he was laying the groundwork for the name with that stuff about being a powerful Sith etc. I would never have brought this up had the name been Darth Powerful Sith or something more story appropriate. "Vader" winds up being a nonsensical concoction referencing absolutely nothing at all.

JediTricks
06-02-2005, 02:55 AM
Don't like the "Vader=Father" connection? Blame Lucas.


The movie should have had more dialogue afterwards...

ANAKIN: Why did you choose that?

PALPATINE: Choose what?

ANANKIN: You know, the name, "Vader". What's that about?

PALPATINE: Oh, right. Yeah, it... um... sounded cool.

ANAKIN: What? That's ridiculous, no other meaning than that?

PALPATINE: Nope.

ANAKIN: C'mon, no way!

PALPATINE: Well, all Sith have menacing-sounding names, most of the good ones had been taken.

ANAKIN: Well, what about "Darth Menacing"? Surely that hasn't been used yet.

PALPATINE: Fifteen hundred and thirty years ago, he was a rather short man, many Sith since then have postulated that he chose the name to make up for his stature.

ANAKIN: Get out! No way! This is total bantha-spit!

PALPATINE: Seriously. I kid you not. And really, does "Darth Menacing" sound all that scary? Of course not, it sounds silly.

ANAKIN: Oh, and "Darth Invader" doesn't?!?

PALPATINE: Not "Darth Invader", "Darth Vader", "v-a-d-e-r", no "in" part, just like my name.

ANAKIN: "Darth Inpalpatine"? I don't get it. If I were pope, I could choose my own name!

PALPATINE: No, idiot! Not "Darth Inpalpa...", oh never mind!

PALPATINE: (muttering to himself) Young fool. Why did I pick this kid again?

2-1B
06-02-2005, 03:28 AM
I think Vader is a good, menacing, name.

and besides, Darth Sidious already had "Menace" locked up as his third name from the first episode. :p

Elliejabbapop
06-02-2005, 05:19 AM
As a curious parallel to Padme's instant naming session with the kids she holds no love for, how exactly does Palps arrive at that name anyway? It is so off the cuff that I was a little disappointed that there was exactly 0% explanation of why Vader is Vader. I don't know exactly what I was looking for, but after that interesting discussion about Plagious (sp?), I was hoping for some ultra-cool Sith history tie-in or something.

Vader, that's it. Yeah, Vader! :sur:

Vader means "father".......... Palps knows Ani is married to Padme so he obviously knows that he's going to be a daddy........ makes perfect sense to me :)

Jayspawn
06-02-2005, 08:49 AM
I kind of reasond that Palpatine just blasted his own face and he was making all kinda sounds (I would too if I did). And 'Vader' just came out akwardly.

darthvyn
06-02-2005, 04:42 PM
vader means father in dutch. so unless the dutch come from a galaxy far far away a long time ago, the meaning of that word is not necessarily the same. once again, it's a subtle allusion, not a direct meaning.

i like the fact that vader is the word for father in another language here on earth. i just feel that it has no significance to the word father in the star wars universe.

2-1B
06-03-2005, 01:34 AM
Had they never made ESB, the whole Father-Vader thing wouldn't really matter, eh ? :confused:

Of course, in fairness, we wouldn't even know that Darth ______ is a Sith title, either then because he would just be a guy in a suit named Darth Vader. Darth would be his first name, not a title.

Meh.

Slicker
06-03-2005, 02:46 AM
Perhaps the Sith are named like hurricanes, no? And it so happend to be up to the "V's" so Palps had to think of a name that started with "V" and seeing as Anakin had just "aided" him in killing Mace he was an "aider" so put the "V" in front of it, remove the "I" and boom!! You have Darth Vader.


Well, you can't blame a guy for trying can you?

scruffziller
06-05-2005, 07:50 AM
Even though we know that Vader carries the "father" connotation from the days of old, I like the thought of Vader being a riff on Invader which, frankly, he does to the Jedi Temple. That's why I like it.

Darth Maul was an attack dog who mauled over things, Darth Tyrannus was instrumental in bringing tyranny to the Republic, and Darth Sidious was the phantom menace moving behind the scenes, an insidious one to be sure . . . Darth Vader invades the Jedi Temple. Classic. :)

Excellent explanation C!!!:)

So Darth Plaegious brought plaugue then? :D

darthvyn
06-05-2005, 08:44 AM
actually it was i typo on his sith diploma, it was supposed to be darth plaqueus, because he brought plaque which leads to gingivitis and tooth decay. "at last the we will DESTROY the teeth of the jedi," he was know to say...

yoda was especially distraut by these happenings...

"plaque leads to gingivitis, gingivitis leads to bleeding gums. bleeding gums lead to... creamed corn!"