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View Full Version : How does Leia remember her mom??



sluray
05-20-2005, 05:04 PM
In ROTJ, Luke asked Leia if she remembered her mother. Leia said she somewhat remembered her as beautiful but sad. Luke did not have any memory of her. My question is how did Leia remember her so well? Leia's only moment with her mom was during delivery. Luke does not remember. I guess the force is strong in that family and sometimes they get flashbacks. That is the only possible explanation in my mind. :confused:

basschick
05-20-2005, 05:05 PM
that leia has a truly outstanding memory :D

El Chuxter
05-20-2005, 05:34 PM
"Just images. Feelings, really."

Perhaps she had a holo of Padme that Bail gave her?

darko666
05-20-2005, 05:37 PM
instead of trying to figure this out, it's best to just say that GL f'ed up.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 05:39 PM
"Just images. Feelings, really."

Perhaps she had a holo of Padme that Bail gave her?


If forced to stretch logic, the holo might explain the "images" part. But we all know that that isn't what she meant. As little kids, under 5, we all kind of have fleeting memories and feelings about that time, but few solid memories. The obvious OT intention was that Leia's mom died sometime when the kids were toddlers or so. Whether Luke was there or not, we know that Leia should have been with mom for at least a few years.

Some inconsistencies are just impossible to explain away successfully. :(

Beast
05-20-2005, 06:21 PM
Other than Leia may have actually even had more force potential than Luke. Since all she remembers is images and feelings, it could just be a impression in the force that imprinted on Leia when Padme died. It's not like Leia says a great deal about her mother in ROTJ. And nothing in ROTS ignores the established canon. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

steeltormentor69
05-20-2005, 06:35 PM
Maybe her adopted mother dies after a few years and she is unaware that she is adopted at all. Maybe she's referring to her "Organa" mother, you know ... whats-her-face. I can't remember her name.

Sith Lord 0498
05-20-2005, 06:41 PM
The junior novelization answers this quite well when it states that Leia looks at Padme intently as if trying to memorize her face. Lucas f'ed up by not showing it that way in the movie.

Beast
05-20-2005, 06:51 PM
The junior novelization answers this quite well when it states that Leia looks at Padme intently as if trying to memorize her face. Lucas f'ed up by not showing it that way in the movie.
The books are meant to expand on the movies, not vice versa. Obi-Wan was holding Leia next to Padme when she died. So I can buy the fact that she imprinted on Leia.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

darko666
05-20-2005, 07:15 PM
Obi-Wan was holding Leia next to Padme when she died. So I can buy the fact that she imprinted on Leia.


it seemed that Obi-Wan was holding Luke when she died. i don't recall seeing Leia being handed over to Obi-Wan. he just said it was a girl, then Padme had her last words and died. unless the novel explains this better than the movie.

stillakid
05-20-2005, 07:58 PM
And nothing in ROTS ignores the established canon. :)


What version of ROTS did you see? :sur:

Beast
05-20-2005, 08:09 PM
What version of ROTS did you see? :sur:
The one not being watched with an obvious bias. ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
05-20-2005, 08:17 PM
The one not being watched with an obvious bias. ;) :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Hmm, strange that comment, because I'm the one going in without a predetermined opinion to love whatever is shown. :ermm: If I have any bias at all, it is against poorly written stories. What's wrong with that? :confused:

Veers
05-20-2005, 10:40 PM
I was wondering myself how Leia remembered her mom so well.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-20-2005, 11:19 PM
I saw the movie for the second time today, and if I recall correctly, they cut away to Vader after Leia was born. More could have happened during that time. Also, since she has Force potential, it wouldn't take long to have some sort impression of her. Now, as to why Luke doesn't, there are several possiblities. Perhaps at that point, Luke is not as Force sensitive as Leia. Also, from what I've encountered in EU, Jedi are not all equally talented in each Jedi discipline. Leia's talents probably lie in the more mental aspects of the Force. That probably helped her being a politician, as well as how she was able to resist Vader's mind probe in ANH. Luke is more like his father, being a skilled pilot and a good fighter.

ndjedi
05-21-2005, 12:42 AM
I do recall, after seeing ROTS 3 times yesterday, that Padme did infact say Luke twice and she did look at him a bit more, since he was the 1st born of the twins.
I did notice that Luke was taken to the side as Leia was born and Obi-Wan held Leia really close to Padme, even while he pleaded with Padme to live for her twins. Obi-Wan was holding Leia as Padme died. This has to be why Leia recalled her mother, what she told Luke later on, "She was...very beautiful. Kind...but sad." As quoted from the DVD of ROTJ. Leia must have imprinted this in her memory at birth of her real mother, Padme. I had even read in the book The Making of Revenge of the Sith on page 61, that Padme did in fact smile at Leia as Obi-Wan held her close to see Padme before she died. It reads in the original scrpit by Lucas, "Padme stays alive long enough to see both children being born, and they're held up for her to see. But she can "offer up only a faint smile"-the smile Leia will recall in Episode VI."

2-1B
05-21-2005, 12:52 AM
I'll be the first to admit that they really stretched this one out a bit too far with the "images, feelings" thing . . . but seriously, can people stop suggesting that Leia is not remembering Padme but someone else ? :crazed: Come on, she was talking about Padme. Period. :D

So as to what's onscreen now during these 6 films, we see Luke held over by mum for a lookise and then Leia is there when she dies. Yeah, it's kind of goofy that she keeps these images, feelings but then again Luke senses something "familiar" on Dagobah as in Yoda watching over him from afar.

All this sensing and premonition in these movies is pretty goofy. :beard:

Beast
05-21-2005, 01:36 AM
I'll be the first to admit that they really stretched this one out a bit too far with the "images, feelings" thing . . . but seriously, can people stop suggesting that Leia is not remembering Padme but someone else ? :crazed: Come on, she was talking about Padme. Period. :D

So as to what's onscreen now during these 6 films, we see Luke held over by mum for a lookise and then Leia is there when she dies. Yeah, it's kind of goofy that she keeps these images, feelings but then again Luke senses something "familiar" on Dagobah as in Yoda watching over him from afar.

All this sensing and premonition in these movies is pretty goofy. :beard:
Agreed. In fact I think it would have been great if Yoda was holding Luke when Padme died with Leia. Would have given even more creedance to the whole fact that Luke was feeling Yoda's force signature as familar. Not to mention Yoda looking over Luke, which he states right in ESB. But yeah, I have no huge problem with Padme's traumatic death imprinting on infant Leia. And considering she was force sensitive in the womb, she may have imprinted some of Padem's feelings then as well. Plus considering Leia has force potential, she could be seeing visions of the past as well.

Yoda: "Concentrate...feel the Force flow. Yes. Good. Calm, yes. Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future...the past. Old friends long gone."

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jjreason
05-21-2005, 01:38 AM
I think the explanation of Leia getting her images and feelings of Padme through her force sensitivity are best. Her father had dreams on a number of occasions during which he was able to "see" certain events before they transpired AND have feelings about them. It's completely reasonable and plausible that Leia's latent force abilities caused her to dream about or have realistic visions of her mother - and that those dreams and/or visions would be emotional.

Pendo
05-21-2005, 08:52 AM
I've always interpreted the "Just images really, feelings" as the force, and have never actually believed that Leia grew up with her mother.

PENDO!

stillakid
05-21-2005, 07:04 PM
All this "imprinting" talk is pure and utter crap. Not only is it entirely implausible, it's utterly ridiculous. The original intention of Kasdan was crystal clear and this is an obvious case of George f'ing up again. Anything more than that is blind fandom talking. :cool: RAY

Beast
05-21-2005, 07:11 PM
All this "imprinting" talk is pure and utter crap. Not only is it entirely implausible, it's utterly ridiculous. The original intention of Kasdan was crystal clear and this is an obvious case of George f'ing up again. Anything more than that is blind fandom talking. :cool: RAY
Yeah, just as implausible as laser swords, the force, levitation, telekinesis, seeing the future, shooting lightning from your fingers.... wait, it's not implausible at all. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

stillakid
05-21-2005, 07:36 PM
Yeah, just as implausible as laser swords, the force, levitation, telekinesis, seeing the future, shooting lightning from your fingers.... wait, it's not implausible at all. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Ha ha. :D As a guy with a gazillion DVDs, I would assume that you would have realized by now that once certain "rules" and plot points have been established, it is the author's responsibility to maintain their continuity and integrity. In this specific example, George lapsed on that duty.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-21-2005, 11:34 PM
Ha ha. :D As a guy with a gazillion DVDs, I would assume that you would have realized by now that once certain "rules" and plot points have been established, it is the author's responsibility to maintain their continuity and integrity. In this specific example, George lapsed on that duty.

And what rules were broken?

Also, apparently it wasn't crystal clear, as here we are discussing it.

Turbowars
05-21-2005, 11:54 PM
Maybe her adopted mother dies after a few years and she is unaware that she is adopted at all. Maybe she's referring to her "Organa" mother, you know ... whats-her-face. I can't remember her name.This seems to be the obvious reason to me.

2-1B
05-22-2005, 12:32 AM
Come on guys, Leia can NOT be remembering Queen Organa while saying a minute later that she always knew Luke was her brother.

stillakid, what do you make of that nonsense about Leia saying "Somehow, I've always known" ? By itself it sounds goofy but when you consider that he tells Leia that the Force is strong in his family, it doesn't seem as bad. That's why I am exploring this in relation to Padme's deathbed. :)

But please, please, drop the 'Leia is remembering her adoptive mother' thing - she's talking about Padme ! ! ! :crazed:

stillakid
05-22-2005, 12:37 AM
And what rules were broken?
Uh, you know, the standard method of maintaining continuity throughout a story. That little one that apparently isn't all that important to a lot of people.


Also, apparently it wasn't crystal clear, as here we are discussing it.
Well, it was crystal clear. That some people didn't seem to comprehend it is the mystery.

stillakid
05-22-2005, 12:44 AM
Come on guys, Leia can NOT be remembering Queen Organa while saying a minute later that she always knew Luke was her brother.

stillakid, what do you make of that nonsense about Leia saying "Somehow, I've always known" ? By itself it sounds goofy but when you consider that he tells Leia that the Force is strong in his family, it doesn't seem as bad. That's why I am exploring this in relation to Padme's deathbed. :)

But please, please, drop the 'Leia is remembering her adoptive mother' thing - she's talking about Padme ! ! ! :crazed:

I wouldn't dare! ;) I'd never advocate that ridiculous rationalization that I've heard bandied about as fanboys attempt to cover for another of Lucas's gaffes. :)

So what to make of "Somehow, I've always known"? Well, that comment was in reference to Luke and Leia being bro and sis, not in reference to her comments about knowing mommie. To be brutally honest, I've always had a raised eyebrow at that one. That Luke was sent away to live with Obi's brother Owen on Tatooine whilst Leia was with her mom into her toddler years was the clear and obvious understanding for a long time. It all made complete and unquestionable sense. But that she's "somehow always known" about them being bro and sis was a head scratcher and does require some extracurricular conjecture. Obviously, since I am not Lawrence Kasdan, I can't answer this question with any certainty and can only guess at what he was getting at just as any of us can. But regardless of any of the potential answers we might put on a list, they still would have absolutely no bearing on the obvious idea that Leia was a toddler when Padme died. It is the ONLY way to logically understand Leia's ROTJ words.

2-1B
05-22-2005, 01:19 AM
See, that's what I'm saying. That line seems goofy so they only way I can see it making any sense is through The Force or whatever . . . enter ROTS with a questionable remembering of Padme by infant Leia.

So what I'm getting at is that while on one hand we are really scrutinizing the Padme death thing and talking about how it doesn't make sense, there's another line in that SAME discussion which also doesn't make a bunch of "sense" and that was before any prequel came along to F up the continuity. ;)

2-1B
05-22-2005, 01:21 AM
And yes, I realize the comment wasabout bro and sis, not mom and daughter, but when it comes down to it, both involve a very questionable way of introducing what Leia knows about her brother and mother.

Her adoptive father sure was a cool guy though, sorry to see him go in ANH. :(

Mad Slanted Powers
05-22-2005, 04:20 AM
Uh, you know, the standard method of maintaining continuity throughout a story. That little one that apparently isn't all that important to a lot of people.

Well, it was crystal clear. That some people didn't seem to comprehend it is the mystery.

Regarding this topic, I believe there is continuity. Leia said her real mother died when she was very young, and that all she remembered were images. If Yoda is able to "watch" Luke from Dagobah with the Force, than it doesn't seem like much of a stretch that a Force sensitive child might recall these images, especially of her own mother. The issue then becomes, why didn't Luke? I've already given possible reasons for that.

stillakid
05-22-2005, 09:42 AM
See, that's what I'm saying. That line seems goofy so they only way I can see it making any sense is through The Force or whatever . . . enter ROTS with a questionable remembering of Padme by infant Leia.

So what I'm getting at is that while on one hand we are really scrutinizing the Padme death thing and talking about how it doesn't make sense, there's another line in that SAME discussion which also doesn't make a bunch of "sense" and that was before any prequel came along to F up the continuity. ;)

But to suggest that ROTS is 100% correct is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A better concept to explain that Leia had always had an inkling that she and Luke had some kind of connection would be as simple as a general feeling of comfortable familiarity. Family members the world 'round have similar idiosyncrasies and such and it isn't a stretch whatsoever to think that Leia began to realize this after getting to know Luke better.

This is a far far better way to look at it than to geek out and suggest that there is fantasy "imprinting" going on. :rolleyes: Puhlease...I get that these are sci fi films and that we have to accept a certain number of...um, fantasy elements...but this idea that a new-born can "imprint" that her mommie was beautiful but sad is utterly and categorically ridiculous. At the same time, I fully understand the need to invent something to cover Lucas's F-up, but to cover an "illness" with a cure that is even worse than the disease doesn't make sense to me.

stillakid
05-22-2005, 10:29 AM
Yeah, just as implausible as laser swords, the force, levitation, telekinesis, seeing the future, shooting lightning from your fingers.... wait, it's not implausible at all. :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

I've been thinking more about your examples as I have an open mind about all of this and not preconceived notions about how great everything always is. :D

The issue at hand is the ridiculous notion of "imprinting" both an image of Leia's "beautiful" mom in her infant brain and "imprinting" the feelings of Padme's sadness.

You attempt to counter by suggesting that many of the elements of Star Wars are also very fantastical therefore we should blindly accept absolutely any implausible element that can be tossed into the soup.

Let's look at what you brought to the table:
laser swords, the force, levitation, telekinesis, seeing the future, shooting lightning from fingertips.

Laserswords fall into the category of hardware, which, given our current state of technological advancement relative to how much we still have to learn about the physics of our universe, we can postulate that having some kind of lasersword technology in the future isn't entirely out of the question.

Your other examples can fall under the heading of theoretical physics. Specifically SUPERSTRING or M THEORY has either addressed, or has elements within it, that can relate directly to the concept of "the Force." Byproducts of String Theory have shown that ideas like predicting the future manipulating other objects could theoretically be possible. Because String Theory predicts that the most basic element of existence is a string of oscillating energy, and that EVERYTHING...even space itself...is made up of this stuff, that we indeed are all connected as Yoda's speech in ESB suggests. So being able to "tap" into this energy field isn't as far fetched as it might initially seem.

But what you're suggesting, that Infant Leia remembers that her mom is beautiful but sad based on some kind of nonsensical "imprinting" falls into the goober LOTR fantasy genre, not Star Wars.

Mad Slanted Powers
05-22-2005, 01:27 PM
I don't see how it is that much different or far fetched. There are people in the real world who claim to remember being in the womb, or to remember past lives, so is it that far fetched to say that a child in a fantasy movie could have memories from when she was born?

I think a more reasonable objection would be about Obi-Wan's line in ANH - "I haven't gone by Obi-Wan since before you were born." I don't recall Obi-Wan changing his name to Ben in ROTS.

2-1B
05-22-2005, 05:40 PM
I saw it again today, paying close attention to this again and also last night I read about it in the "Making of ROTS" book that I just bought.

The intention from the script, it seems, is that Padme smiles at Leia and that's what Leia recalls. I'll get the book out later when I have more time and quote it exactly.

Today, watching the movie for the 6th time, we see Luke brought to Padme so she can name him, then Leia is born and while we do not see that goofy droid hand the little darling over to Obi-Wan, I believe this happens during the cut to Padme because Obi-Wan looked at the new baby and since Luke was handed over, I believe Leia would be handed over next. So as I see it, Obi-Wan is holding Leia, Padme names her and raises her eyebrows but doesn't really smile as the script/book suggests and the baby is crying as Padme died.

Later on when we see Luke on Tatooine his eyes are totally closed and asleep while Leia is wide-eyed and looking up at her new parents.

My feeling or interpretation of this scene as of right now is that the filmmakers took some artistic license in terms of what they actually showed on screen. The condition the babies are shown to be in as they are handed over to their respective custodians implies that Leia is more alert than Luke as a baby and likely as their mother died. Maybe that's why Leia cried when Padme cashed in her ticket.

I think Lucas could have done this more clearly, I mean it was already confusing given the stuff Leia says in ROTJ because while Luke asks do you remember your mother, Leia doesn't really say "yeah I remember her" - she just speaks in generalities.

But if they wanted to give the impression that Leia was keeping these feelings from her brief time with her mother, it could have been done more clearly. :)

I grew up with the EU/Novelization interpretation that Leia hid in trunks with her mother so I always assumed that Leia remembered her because she lived with her a few years.

I guess that what Lucas is telling us is that we were taking a much too literal interpretation of the events. :crazed:

Ji'dai
05-22-2005, 06:17 PM
Later on when we see Luke on Tatooine his eyes are totally closed and asleep while Leia is wide-eyed and looking up at her new parents.


Baby Luke is probably trying to keep the sand out of his eyes. Or maybe the Eopie farted and Luke scrunched up his face from the odor so we could have one last cute joke as an appropriate coda for the trilogy.

stillakid
05-22-2005, 06:26 PM
I don't see how it is that much different or far fetched. There are people in the real world who claim to remember being in the womb, or to remember past lives, so is it that far fetched to say that a child in a fantasy movie could have memories from when she was born?.

I suppose, but those people are crackpots. :crazed: Do we really need to have their special brand of insanity immortalized in a Star Wars film?